#indiewebcamp 2015-01-10

2015-01-10 UTC
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kylewm benwerd: is it possible that Known doesn't recognize in-reply-to's that are objects instead of strings? I'm looking at like https://github.com/idno/idno/blob/a2203c47a547e065b0d8c1a1b6854a17eb0650ca/Idno/Common/Entity.php#L1604
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kylewm and it looks like it's recently gotten more strict about distinguishing replies from mentions
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KevinMarks cleaned up the html a bit https://github.com/kevinmarks/kevin-marks.com/commit/1e51aadccbc9ae561eed1bc20b77fc54855f57c1
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KevinMarks wondering if I should turn the clues into <ol>
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benwerd kylewm: hmm, maybe I need to re-examine the possible types there.
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benwerd It is a little stricter, to avoid an issue we were having with blog posts in particular. I want to better define replies.
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kylewm benwerd: here's a reply to you if you want something to test with https://kylewm.com/2015/01/we-are-admiring-your-podcast-in-indiechat-i-hope
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benwerd kylewm: groovy
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benwerd thanks
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benwerd kylewm++ (x1000 at this point)
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Loqi kylewm has 98 karma
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kylewm the karma flows through me
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benwerd kylewm: aha, I see the problem. yeah, we're effectively expecting u-in-reply-to but not p-in-reply-to
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kylewm I'm hoping we can make that case easier at the mf meetup on the 20th!
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kylewm well... maginally
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kylewm marginally*
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GWG Kylewm, which case?
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KevinMarks if I want brid.gy to send me FB likes,I have to post on my own timeline, right? https://www.facebook.com/groups/newclues/permalink/1596052597295239/ isn't going to work?
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kylewm GWG: so it's easier to handle both "u-in-reply-to" and "u-in-reply-to h-cite"
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kylewm GWG: more detail here http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-brainstorming#Nested_h-.2A_objects.27_.22value.22_property
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GWG Kylewm, okay
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benwerd kylewm: I'll loop back and think about heuristics for this. Makes sense, I think, for p-in-reply-to with a u-url inside it to be effectively conflated to u-in-reply-to behind the scenes.
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kylewm benwerd: sounds good. let me know if you want me to file a GH issue
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benwerd kylewm: I'm writing one now :)
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benwerd I'll cc you if that's ok
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kylewm that's great
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GWG I think I use p now
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KevinMarks so will this show as POSSE to bridgy? I reposted the New Clues on my own site so that Webmentions and fragmentions can be used on it: http://www.kevinmarks.com/newclues.html ”ª#”Žindieweb”¬
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KevinMarks er https://www.facebook.com/kevinmarks/posts/10155135487320425?pnref=story
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tantek kylewm: indeed in anticiption we should likely change the "p-in-reply-to h-cite" recipe to "u-in-reply-to h-cite"
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tantek btw who was asking about date clustered posts - where the date is only shown once and posts only show the time?
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tantek asking about *examples of*
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tantek adactio.com is one such example
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tantek maybe colintedford was?
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kylewm kylewm.com is now too (because I copied adactio)
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tantek it was late last night
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GWG It was 3am and I can't remember
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+0) "/* Markup */ use u-in-reply-to h-cite in anticipation of microformats2 parsing changes" (view diff)
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GWG Are you saying that I have to change my ps to us?
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kylewm tantek++ good call
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Loqi tantek has 138 karma
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tantek.com edited /App.net (+74) "/* Issues */ u-in-reply-to h-cite" (view diff)
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snarfed KevinMarks: yes, bridgy will handle that fb post of yours
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GWG Why is it that each time I read these conversations, I'm convinced that I am doing something wrong?
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tantek.com edited /in-reply-to (+0) "u-in-reply-to h-cite" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+0) "/* Markup */ u-in-reply-to h-cite" (view diff)
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GWG I need either more examples in the wiki or a consultant
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tantek.com edited /mention-app (+127) "/* notification UI brainstorming */ u-in-reply-to h-cite" (view diff)
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kylewm some prior art for posts clustered by day https://web.archive.org/web/20000706204857/http://powazek.com/
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tantek not sure how to capture that
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tantek kylewm maybe collect it on http://indiewebcamp.com/stream if you want?
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tantek ok no more p-in-reply-to
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kylewm oh I don't really think it needs to be captured...just maybe slightly interesting for whoever was asking about it
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GWG I need to go home and change a p to a u now
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kylewm mind your p's and u's eh, GWG
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GWG https://david.shanske.com/2014/12/26/listening-serial/
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GWG Darnit
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GWG I need some advice before I try to fix this.
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GWG kylewm: Can I prevail upon you?
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kylewm sure, GWG
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GWG https://david.shanske.com/2014/12/26/listening-serial/
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GWG How bad is this microformats wise
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kylewm GWG: they look good, you can change p-like-of to u-like-of, but for now the parsing output will be exactly the same
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kylewm (based on a misunderstanding between the spec and the parser implementers)
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GWG So, all I have to do is change any instance of p to u?
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kylewm noo
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GWG This is where I'm confused
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kylewm it's a little bit tricky to explain. the idea is sort of to hvae a reasonable fallback
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kylewm if i publish a "u-like-of h-cite" and you don't know how to handle h-cites specfically, you can just fallback to the u-like-of
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kylewm see tantek's likes for a simple example
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kylewm http://tantek.com/2015/002/f13
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kylewm wait, bad example
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kylewm heh, he dropped the h-cite
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colintedford tantek: It was GWG who (offhandedly) asked about date-clustered posts last night http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-08#t1420768584227
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+111) "/* Better archives */ post-type archives" (view diff)
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GWG !tell prtksxna Discovered another bug in Post Kinds that would affect you. Might want to update for the fix.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG kylewm: What's imageproxy on your site?
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kylewm GWG: https://github.com/agschwender/pilbox
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GWG kylewm: Thank you. Still looking at responsive images
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GWG Keep jumping around
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@BobJonkman That's #PESOS. I'm more of a #POSSE guy myself https://indiewebcamp.com/PESOS (twitter.com/_/status/553740061423194112)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+1191) "/* Working on */ url scheme" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+14) "/* URL scheme */ reorder links to be separate for non-underlined styles" (view diff)
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@dougmckown @TryGhost I wish Ghost had #indieweb functionality/options. Any plan for that? (twitter.com/_/status/553742156557737984)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (-10) "/* URL scheme */ fix link" (view diff)
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GWG colintedford: Looking at your site
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GWG What is Facebonk?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Facebonk" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Facebonk
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colintedford GWG: heh, guess I should make a redirect ;)
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colintedford.com created /Facebonk (+22) "Redirected page to [[Facebook]]" (view diff)
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colintedford Loqi, I want to know if you follow redirects and GWG want to know "What is Facebonk?"
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Loqi Facebook is a popular content hosting silo and activity aggregator most well known for being the largest centralized social network on the web https://indiewebcamp.com/Facebonk
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colintedford :D Thanks!
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colintedford.com created /facebonk (+22) "Redirected page to [[Facebook]]" (view diff)
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benwerd Loqi, what is Friendface?
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Loqi :)
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benwerd Decent answer, to be fair
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kylewm !tell davidpeach for maps I have been really happy with aaronpk's tool for generating static map images https://github.com/esripdx/Static-Maps-API-PHP
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+1207) "/* Working on */ Note names" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (-1) "/* URL scheme */ typo" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+186) "/* Working on */ Summaries (+ reorder)" (view diff)
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@benwerd @joshuajuran Maybe we should have an #IndieWebCamp Vegas. #whatswebmentionedinvegasstaysinvegas #vegasisasilo (twitter.com/_/status/553763271451238400)
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@t Last call for 2015-01-01 #indieweb launches! @pius @haxor @jonpierce @AStateofKate @fdevillamil http://tantek.com/2014/357/b1/2015-indieweb-site-launch-commitment (ttk.me t4_43) (twitter.com/_/status/553765970876329984)
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tantek.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+254) "/* See Also */ add articles about, what is your (post)" (view diff)
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tantek oops @-name typo
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@t Last call for 2015-001 #indieweb launches! @_pius @haxor @jonpierce @AStateofKate @fdevillamil http://tantek.com/2014/357/b1/2015-indieweb-site-launch-commitment (ttk.me t4_43) (twitter.com/_/status/553767444515651584)
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@t 2015-01-01 personal site launches so far: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01-commitments Add yours, post+POSSE #indieweb. Blogging soon! (ttk.me t4_44) (twitter.com/_/status/553769383399809024)
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tantek manual POSSE CRUD on that first one. delete tweet (had no interactions) + re-POSSE = update.
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KevinMarks silos trying to invent linking
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tantek wat?
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KevinMarks http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/06/technology/tech-companies-look-to-break-down-walls-between-apps.html?_r=0
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tantek hahaha that's hilarious
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tantek the FB stuff was so broken on launch - what was it called? AppLinks?
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tantek totally ignorable
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@ayirpelle "@t: Last call for 2015-01-01 #indieweb launches! @pius @haxor @jonpierce @AStateofKate @fdevillamil http://tantek.com/2014/357/b1/2015-indieweb-site-launch-commitment (ttk.me t4_43)" (twitter.com/_/status/553773131912192000)
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@ayirpelle RT @t: 2015-01-01 personal site launches so far: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01-commitments Add yours, post+POSSE #indieweb. Blogging soon! (ttk.me t4_44) (twitter.com/_/status/553774078403026944)
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KevinMarks is bridgy going to pick up these posts? https://www.facebook.com/groups/newclues/permalink/1596062320627600/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/newclues/permalink/1596052597295239/ or does their 'group' status mean not?
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Loqi [bridgy] ✌ matt j. sorenson ✌ favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01-commitments (https://twitter.com/t/status/553769383399809024)
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Loqi [bridgy] priya joseph retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01-commitments (https://twitter.com/ayirpelle/status/553774078403026944)
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KevinMarks hm, so public in fb groups still means "login required" ?
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snarfed.org edited /Twitter (-117) "/* Profile Image URLs */ no more FUD, size details" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /2015-01-01-commitments (+121) "/* Additional 2015-01 launches */ colintedford improved archive pages" (view diff)
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp!
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GWG Good evening, tantek
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kylewm.com edited /pubsub (-3) "/* Generalised Flow */ grammar policin'" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /pubsub (-1) "/* Previous/Current Work */ fix typo" (view diff)
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@Wordius @aribadernatal Have a Jekyll blog with Webmentions. Mind me asking how you are publishing Tweets? (twitter.com/_/status/553824386109931521)
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Loqi [bridgy] Pelle Wessman favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01-commitments (https://twitter.com/t/status/553769383399809024)
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colintedford.com edited /User:Colintedford.com (+372) "De-dupe FB preview. Move noise filter from Wants to Working on, clean & expand." (view diff)
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Loqi [bridgy] Robin Taylor favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01-commitments (https://twitter.com/t/status/553769383399809024)
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Loqi [bridgy] Christophe Ducamp favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01-commitments (https://twitter.com/t/status/553769383399809024)
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Loqi [bridgy] Matthias Pfefferle favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01-commitments (https://twitter.com/t/status/553769383399809024)
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@dweinberger @KevinMarks has posted a version of the #NewClues you can annotate. Includes list of WebMentions. http://www.kevinmarks.com/newclues.html #OpenSourcePub (twitter.com/_/status/553926747859984384)
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@WarnerCrocker RT @kevinmarks: I reposted the New Clues on my own site so that Webmentions and fragmentions can be used on it: http://www.kevinmarks.com/newclues.html #ind… (twitter.com/_/status/553927053419237376)
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@montemagno RT @dweinberger: @KevinMarks has posted a version of the #NewClues you can annotate. Includes list of WebMentions. http://www.kevinmarks.com/newclues.html #… (twitter.com/_/status/553931099496542208)
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GWG Morning
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Phyks hi
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GWG Hello, Phyks
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GWG Any indieweb themed excitement there?
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Phyks not much today… I'm working on setting up a firefox account + firefox sync server on my server :)
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GWG You run sync locally?
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Phyks no, I plan on using my own server to store my data, instead of Mozilla's ones
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GWG I got that. Just confirming I understood.
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Phyks ah, sorry, I misunderstood your question =(
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GWG One of these days, I may come up with a way to host my bookmarks on my site. I've never quite figured out a manner that makes them useful.
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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aaronpk good morning!
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tantek aaronpk, ben_thatmust - my Known / idno pull request was merged, so no more u-media
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aaronpk hooray!
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tantek https://github.com/idno/idno/pull/696
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aaronpk I wonder how long until it makes it into werd.io and others
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aaronpk looks like it's already on werd.io!
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aaronpk although he has a p-photo property with a text description as well. is that expected?
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tantek didn't see that. URL?
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwerd.io%2F2015%2Fscotch-eggs-hit-the-hipster-scene
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aaronpk if that is expected, then a consumer is going to have to look for a value in the "photo" array that looks like a URL
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tantek that doesn't make any sense
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aaronpk okay
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tantek <h2 class="p-photo"><a href="http://werd.io/2015/scotch-eggs-hit-the-hipster-scene">Scotch eggs hit the hipster scene.</a></h2>
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tantek there's no photo there
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tantek that looks like a typo - that should be a p-name
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tantek goes back to searching idno source
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tantek oh dear https://github.com/idno/idno/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=%22p-photo%22
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aaronpk css styles targeting microformat classes?
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aaronpk I don't know if this is something you were expecting, but I made a point of never adding css rules to microformat classes, I always add a separate class if I need to for CSS
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tantek I had mentioned a while ago that I use separate classes for styling
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tantek hadn't quite "made a point" of it yet because I was still figuring it out
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aaronpk maybe we should say that explicitly on wiki pages for h-entry and others
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tantek I don't know what to say because I don't quite understand what a best practice would be
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aaronpk hm. well what i've been doing is writing my CSS as I normally would have without microformats classes.
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aaronpk and treating the microformats classes as a totally separate set of things to add to the markup
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aaronpk my CSS skills aren't that great, so I can't recommend a particular strategy for CSS, but that pattern could apply to anyone
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aaronpk side note: akismet is sucking pretty bad lately
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aaronpk it's just not catching hundreds of comments
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aaronpk lol it even agrees with me: http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Akismet_stats-20150110-091244.png "Accuracy: 0%"
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aaronpk also how am I getting trackbacks when "allow link notifications from other blogs (pingbacks and trackbacks)" is un-checked
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snarfed KevinMarks: re the FB group posts, you're right, bridgy doesn't currently support FB groups
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snarfed we could definitely consider adding it. i don't use FB groups though, so i/we'd probably want help from someone who knows the UX
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gRegor` aaronpk: Is this on a WordPress site? Do you report the missed spam to Akismet or just delete it?
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gRegor` I'm getting a lot more "literate" spam slipping through.
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ben_thatmust tantek, cool. I hadn't dealt with the u-media bits yet anyway, so that work
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gRegor` My custom plugin doesn't have a tool yet for submitting it to Akismet, which they say is supposed to make it better.
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aaronpk gRegor`: I was clicking the "spam" button, is that reporting it to akismet?
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aaronpk i did that for about 5 pages of comments, then realized there were 50 more pages and stopped, and just deleted them from the database with a SQL query
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gRegor` I think it should be, yeah
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gRegor` I'm going to try adding an easy method to my plugin to bulk report and see if it gets better.
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kylewm snarfed: had an FB API question for you, I can't seem to get any information about my friends or their posts through the API anymore. including facebook-atom is empty
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kylewm is that new??
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snarfed huh. :( may be related to the a-u 403
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kylewm I think so
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snarfed maybe part of the v1 api turndown
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snarfed supposed to not be until april, but still
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snarfed a-u etc all still use v1 :( fixing should just be adding v2.2/ to the API urls, but i'm scared
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kylewm but even in the API Explorer, I got to /v2.2/>{user-id}/posts and it's empty
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snarfed grr. new laptop keeps disconnecting whenever the screen sleeps
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snarfed kylewm: access tokens may not be compatible across api versions?
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snarfed not sure
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kylewm oh huh, actually /212038/posts (that's you) works
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kylewm maybe a privacy setting
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snarfed hmm
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snarfed kylewm: on the plus side, bridgy is still seeing FB data, e.g. https://www.brid.gy/facebook/12802152#responses
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snarfed (unless the problem started <16h ago)
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aaronpk today in wtf http://motherboard.vice.com/read/porn-companies-are-going-after-github
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kylewm I really don't want to know what "glob-watcher" means if it doesn't mean watching the filesystem for like **/*.html
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aaronpk indeed
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@cubicgarden Loving the new clues of the @cluetrain. We got to talk about this and #indieweb at @commongroundmcr @Julianlstar @davemee @technicalfault (twitter.com/_/status/554006592900046848)
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@kevinmarks "Decentralize all the things" says @rezendi http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/10/decentralize-all-the-things/ The web is already, and we're on it https://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/554015328523788288)
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GWG I just realized I have been stuck in indiewebcamp code and haven't eaten today
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Loqi [bridgy] Justin Bacon favorited a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/554015328523788288)
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Loqi [bridgy] Tony Haile favorited a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/554015328523788288)
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Loqi [bridgy] janeruffino favorited a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/554015328523788288)
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KartikPrabhu Loqi playback?
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GWG Hi, KartikPrabhu
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KartikPrabhu hi
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kylewm ben_thatmust: i was able to post a photo from your app, worked great! https://kylewm.com/2015/01/test-post-from-dissolve-s-micropub-app
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kylewm ben_thatmust: but the "gallery" button didn't seem to do anything (ergo the picture of my laptop in the dark)
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kylewm started looking at writing an android notifications app and was immediatley overwhelmed :(
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Loqi [bridgy] Shoq retweeted a tweet https://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/Shoq/status/554023388071870464)
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snarfed so, re twitter profile pictures changing…i give in. i'm switching bridgy to use the unofficial url that permanently redirects to the current picture
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snarfed https://indiewebcamp.com/Twitter#Profile_Image_URLs
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snarfed i wish instagram had that kind of thing. IG profile pictures still change often. :/
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snarfed …but at least FB, G+, and twitter will now all be evergreen
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: would bridgy return the original size or the normal one?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: original
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snarfed "normal" is only 48x48 :(
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snarfed details in that wiki link
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yeah I saw. but original could be huge!
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KartikPrabhu guess up to me to fiddle around with that
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snarfed i think twitter limits it…but regardless, that's what bridgy already does
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snarfed no change
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KartikPrabhu yeah i suppose I should resize and cache them or something
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snarfed eh, or not
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snarfed i doubt any are that big
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snarfed punt until it actually causes you a user-visible prolem
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aaronpk snarfed: yay! I think that's a good start. But probably we should all be better about storing profile photos on our own sites, especially since we have to in order to not get ssl warnings
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Loqi giggles
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snarfed aaronpk: sure! and also i know you like the idea of preserving their picture at that moment
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snarfed this still fully supports those
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aaronpk yep!
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snarfed deployed
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aaronpk nice
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KartikPrabhu avatar loading from twitter is already a bottle neck in my site loading performance
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KevinMarks_ The pictures in the unstyled facepiles were comically huge on my site
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KevinMarks_ Will this fix the now blank ones, or would voxpelli need to refetch?
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KevinMarks_ My own icon is blank :( http://www.kevinmarks.com/fragmentions.html#webmentions
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snarfed KevinMarks: this shouldn't change any of those issues
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@cubicgarden Watching Gillmor Gang: Kind of Clue - http://techcrunch.com/video/gillmor-gang-kind-of-clue/518593268/ #NewClues #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/554029604017815553)
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KevinMarks_ Only in future
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snarfed not even then
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snarfed the resulting images will be the same; the only change is that the img src will now point to a url that redirects to the current image, instead of directly to it
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snarfed so, sorry, yes, it will prevent blanks in the future
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snarfed but not the sizing
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KevinMarks_ Even the "large" twitter images end up small on my phone
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snarfed whee
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snarfed btw aaronpk, hopefully the mixed mode warnings are caused by native wms (if at all), not by bridgy. it tries hard to always return https profile picture urls
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aaronpk I wasn't really paying attention, I just know that the only way to guarantee https is to serve them myself
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KevinMarks_ I suppose a fix is to patch the webmention service to return srcset markup?
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snarfed1 KevinMarks: sure, that's one approach
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snarfed1 argh
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KevinMarks_ Hm, a thought. I could make a webmention silo with webmention.herokuapp.com
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KevinMarks_ As it accepts webmentions for any site
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snarfed btw KartikPrabhu, if your site "feels" slow w/twitter profile pictures, it may be the number of connections, not the size
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snarfed looking at my pictures as a sample, my "original" 512x512 one is ~30K, and the "normal" 48x48 one is ~2K. so, bigger, but not actually big per se
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KevinMarks_ So if I don't find a webmention endpoint, call them instead, then in the future if they add the webmention.herokuapp.com markup, they get the older ones.
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snarfed KevinMarks: totally! i think i've also heard discussion about offering that w/wm.io
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yeah it is the number of connections. but then 30K vs 2K is also a factor of 10
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KevinMarks_ Probably a naughty thing to do to voxpelli's Heroku bill
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: sure, hence "not big per se." 30K is fairly small in absolute terms, on the modern internet.
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KartikPrabhu fair enough. avatar loading is a weird problem
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snarfed more importantly though, those image fetches don't block fetching and rendering your page. the only thing that blocks is filling in the avatar images. so the slow "feeling" is probably mostly just seeing the "Connecting to twitter.com" bar in the bottom
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snarfed we may notice that, but i expect most people are blind to it, so maybe don't stress :P
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KartikPrabhu <sigh> I can't do responsive images then I use JS to load the correct size image and avatar loading then blocks content images from loading
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KevinMarks_ That's also a webmention spam model though
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tantek checks to see if <h2 class="p-photo"> has been magically fixed… and no.
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KevinMarks_ Why do you think styling microformats classes is bad?
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tantek KevinMarks: it's not an absolute good/bad thing, it's more like a flexibility of engineering, reducing unintended maintenance connections/burdens
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tantek once again, starting with an issue describing the problem and linking to a real world example: https://github.com/idno/idno/issues/705
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KevinMarks ah. also switching mf2 type might casuse issues eg p-author vs e-author
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kylewm is "realtime notifications for h-feed updates" basically considered a solved problem (by PuSH)?
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tantek kylewm: it's not until we have multiple indie web PuSH consumers, e.g. indie readers
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tantek KevinMarks: could you be more specific? in what case?
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KevinMarks there are times when a p- property could be an e- property
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tantek hmm - looks like p-bookmark might be a mis-use also
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KevinMarks summary for example
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tantek KevinMarks: specific example?
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kylewm tantek: that's fair. i guess my question is: is there general consensus that PuSH is the mechanism indiereaders should try first before inventing something new?
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KevinMarks the one I saw was in generating author here: http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Fexport.arxiv.org%2Frss%2Fgr-qc&raw=on
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tantek No other alternate mechanism has been proposed, and we haven't had sufficient pushback (no pun intended) against PuSH by people trying to implement PuSH consuming.
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@somegermandude IndieWeb makes my tiny, little (and pretty) head hurt. (twitter.com/_/status/554054734534160386)
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KartikPrabhu iirc PuSH requires a central hub doesn't it?
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KartikPrabhu and fwiw I use mf2 classes to style
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: I *think* it's like indieauth, where you can choose a third party provider to delegate to
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KartikPrabhu but if everyone implements their own PuSH hub, then my site would have to keep records of all of those subscribing to send them notifications no?
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kylewm no, your site says "I'm using hub XYZ", and then when someone wants to subscribe to updates from your site, they subscribe to it on the hub you specify
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KartikPrabhu hmm what is the difference with just polling my h-feed link then?
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KartikPrabhu as in what is the advantage of having PuSH notifications over readers polling my h-feed?
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kylewm you get notified when the feed updates
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kylewm push instead of pull
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KartikPrabhu i am confused
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KartikPrabhu reader will poll my hub wouldn't they?
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kylewm no, the reader registers for a callback from the hub
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kylewm so the hub pings your reader only when there are updates
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KartikPrabhu so the hub keeps records of readers who have subscribed
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kylewm (the hub itself may do polling, but that is an implementation detail)
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kylewm yes
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KartikPrabhu same problem. if I make my own hub instead of some central one, then my hub will have to keep records of all subscribers
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kylewm yeah, that is why the hubs exist :P
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KartikPrabhu how is that different from a notification silo?
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kylewm like Pushover?
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KartikPrabhu i get it as a stop-gap measure
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KartikPrabhu or reducing polling to your own site
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kylewm I don't really understand your objection
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KartikPrabhu well. I don't want to rely on a third-party hub. Then I have to run my own hub which makes me keep records of all subscribers. I just don't see the advantage over readers polling my h-feed to get updates. They can do so without me tracking who is subscribed
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KartikPrabhu i mean why should I build this large plumbing just to not rely on third-party hubs, when readers can use an existing mechanism ( polling h-feeds ) to get updates?
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kylewm yeah that's certainly your prerogative
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kylewm if you don't specify a hub, shrewdness still subscribes to updates to your site on superfeedr, and superfeedr deals with the polling
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tantek hmm - I seem to have been disconnected quietly ~20min ago
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tantek kylewm: I had said: 15:25 kylewm: thus I think the current consensus / passive opinion is to *try* consuming real-time via PuSH and see how easy/hard it is.
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kylewm tantek: thanks that's exactly what i wanetd to know
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tantek 15:28 KevinMarks: in answer to your question - in order to fix a *one line* microformats2 error in *one file* in idno / Known, I had to also touch *four* other style sheet files, since they were depending on the previous/wrong microformats2 class name.
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tantek 15:28 Thus 5x the amount of work that would otherwise be necessary for a microformats markup bug fix, caused *purely* by depending on that/those microformats2 class names for CSS rules.
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tantek 15:28 https://github.com/idno/idno/pull/706 - markup change
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tantek 15:29 https://github.com/idno/idno/pull/707 https://github.com/idno/idno/pull/708 https://github.com/idno/idno/pull/709 https://github.com/idno/idno/pull/710 CSS style sheet changes.
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tantek 15:30 whereas if those style sheets depended on non-microformats classes instead, I wouldn't have had to touch them at all
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tantek 15:33 Thus, "styling microformats classes" causes more maintenence work when you make microformats related fixes / changes / updates / improvements, real world example ^^^
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tantek so far the evidence is anecdotal, but it does seem like having a set of classes specifically for styling rather than microformats allows for a more easily maintained overall system.
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: I get those things. But again is there any advantage over my reader polling you h-feed instead of doing all this round about trickery?
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tantek you can more easily make microformats changes/fixes without worrying about breaking styling
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tantek and vice versa - you can make styling class name / style rule changes, without worrying about breaking the microformats.
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: the advantage is real time. i'm specifically asking because i'm looking at /mention-app
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kylewm i want to get push notifications for webmentions before i get them for the posse twitter copies :)
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kylewm which seems like a pretty achievable goal
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KartikPrabhu hmm so the choice seems to be 1. rely on third-party hub 2. run own PuSH notifications and keep lists of subscribers
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kylewm i can't think of any alternative to those two
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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KartikPrabhu anyway nothing I write needs to be real-time anyway at the moment
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@ThatEmil Welcome to the 1st episode of "Implementing Webmention in Django whilst drunk". Today's episode is sponsored by {{ http://hipster.beer }} (twitter.com/_/status/554062044308451330)