#indiewebcamp 2015-01-11

2015-01-11 UTC
#
tantek kylewm, KartikPrabhu indeed - that's why this is worth questioning
#
tantek so far there haven't been a ton of PuSH consumers in the wild
#
tantek mostly "just" superfeedr, and then people end up using that
#
tantek any time a spec/protocol etc. is complicated enough to cause only a few (or only 1?) public implementations, that's usually a red flag
#
tantek same problem happened to Salmon
#
kylewm so I think it's interesting that statusnet used PuSH and pump.io doesn't
#
tantek it doesn't? huh that is odd
#
@vrypan testing my #webmentions server https://blog.vrypan.net/2015/01/11/testing-my-webmentions-server/ #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/554066919360561155)
#
GWG It's been a very productive Indieweb day
#
GWG I should stay in bed and code more often.
#
Loqi yea
#
vrypan BTW, I'm @vrypan, let me know if you sent a webmention to https://blog.vrypan.net/2015/01/11/testing-my-webmentions-server/ but didn;t work as expected. Thanks!
snarfed joined the channel
#
snarfed huh. new webmention service, similar to wm.io: http://www.listnr.net/
#
snarfed background: https://blog.vrypan.net/2015/01/11/testing-my-webmentions-server/
#
vrypan snarfed listnr.net is more or less my hack for private use, webmention.io looks much more mature. :-)
#
snarfed vrypan++
#
Loqi vrypan has 2 karma
#
snarfed still fun to see!
#
snarfed congrats on the launch
caseorganic joined the channel
#
aaronpk fwiw i'm planning on being a PuSH consumer soon
#
snarfed oh nice
#
snarfed heh. more props to kylewm: implement bridgy publish for IG likes, a day later barryf is trying to use it to POSSE photos and comments :P
#
kylewm oops!
#
snarfed :P np
#
tantek vrypan: just tried liking your post and got a 500!
#
snarfed i wonder if we should add a "(likes only)" label next to the IG button for enabling publish - and/or next to the preview form - on the bridgy user page
#
tantek vrypan: at the bottom of the error message returned from your webmention endpoint: File "lib/urlinfo2.py", line 142, in parse_hcard \\ 'name': p_name, \\ UnboundLocalError: local variable 'p_name' referenced before assignment
#
vrypan tantek, thanks. What's the source URL?
#
tantek my like permalink http://tantek.com/2015/010/f5
#
kylewm snarfed: yeah that is a good idea
#
kylewm vrypan: I got a 500 too, with a stacktrace in the error message
#
kylewm I can forward to you if you want
#
tantek kylewm: yes - I got a stacktrace as well - that error was just the top/bottom
#
vrypan I'm working on it, thanks guys. Something with parsing microformat data.
#
snarfed kylewm: huh, actually barryf was trying to IG like. looks like the /likes POST to the IG API failed consistently. mind taking a look? https://www.brid.gy/instagram/barryf#publishes
#
@dissolve333 Already posting so much more thanks to MobilePub #indieweb(btmb.me s/6N) (twitter.com/_/status/554072726701223937)
#
vrypan tantek, kylewm can you please try again?
#
kylewm snarfed: looking
#
kylewm vrypan: sent
#
tantek 200 OK
#
vrypan It worked.
snarfed and dns53 joined the channel
#
kylewm vrypan: I'll make a self-serving plug for https://github.com/kylewm/mf2util if you want. it can help with parsing out the author/content/type of webmentions
vrypan_ joined the channel
#
vrypan_ kylewm cool! Thanks.
#
GWG Finally got around to explaining what a post kind was in detail - https://david.shanske.com/2015/01/10/post-types-post-formats-post-kinds/
snarfed and krendil joined the channel
#
Loqi [bridgy] Hieu Le favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015-01-01-commitments (https://twitter.com/t/status/553769383399809024)
flowyi and mlncn joined the channel
#
snarfed it's probably time to remove my irc notification on 'bridgy' due to the new notif text :P
#
GWG snarfed: What do you mean?
#
snarfed GWG: most irc clients alert you (e.g. growl) when your username is said. that's usually configurable, so i added 'bridgy' and 'brid.gy'
#
GWG snarfed: Oh...I completely missed the meaning.
#
GWG snarfed: I saw Instagram is online now.
#
snarfed but now loqi prefixes [bridgy] to wms from silos, so signal/noise is lower :P
#
snarfed GWG: bridgy publish for IG? yeah! all credit goes to kylewm
#
snarfed only likes, sadly, but still!
#
GWG snarfed: I've never used Instagram, honestly.
#
snarfed GWG: totally ok. no need to start
#
snarfed GWG: glad to see your blog post on post kinds btw
#
snarfed you said today was productive?
#
GWG Very
#
snarfed glad to hear it!
#
GWG I did a bunch of things on Indieweb Post Kinds
#
GWG I added a lot to mf2_s, which is the Indieweb/MF2 starter theme I've been working on
#
GWG snarfed: Think I explained Post Kinds well?
#
aaronpk snarfed: I was wondering if you had a highlight for bridgy :) you always seemed to show up here if someone mentioned it
#
aaronpk snarfed: the other option is to not hav ethose Loqi messages say [bridgy]
#
snarfed aaronpk: true! eh it's fine as is
#
snarfed GWG: maybe! honestly i glaze at data model/schema stuff in general, so i'm a bad judge
#
GWG snarfed: I'm more concerned about how it works than the data.
#
GWG Just WordPress makes it confusing to explain
#
GWG Has anyone seen pfefferle of late?
#
Loqi [mention] gRegor Morrill posted 'I. Started the year with Amanda in (relatively) hot Austin, TX while Chicago was blasted with snow and -20Ëš F temperatures. The weather was ...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com (http://gregorlove.com/2015/01/1192/)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu gRegor`: aren't you 10 days late on "A Year in Review" post ;)
#
gRegor` Nope.
#
GWG KartikPrabhu: Don't you need time to review the year?
#
gRegor` I've always published them in January. :)
#
GWG You can't do it till it is over....
#
GWG And then you need to think on how it played it
#
KartikPrabhu GWW: I don't review the year
#
gRegor` :P to your rules! ;)
#
KartikPrabhu s/GWW/GWG
#
Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: GWG: I don't review the year
#
GWG KartikPrabhu: I was commenting that if one is, such as gRegor`, one may choose to wait till it is over
#
gRegor` My last few days of the year were chaotic with my mom's health anyway. Thankfully she's recovered and home.
#
gRegor` You on for the first HWC of 2015 KartikPrabhu?
#
gRegor` (Also, I'm just glad to be writing again. First blog post since October. One more in the works... need to get back in the habit.)
#
tantek gRegor`: yes! back in the blog habit.
#
gRegor` I was starting to get on a roll, 5 posts in October. Then boom, it's the end of December. :)
#
KartikPrabhu gRegor`: yeah read that. glad she's ok
#
KartikPrabhu same with no new years resolutions
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
KartikPrabhu gRegor`: yeah on for HWC
#
gRegor` My new year resolution is still 1080p
#
KartikPrabhu ha!
#
gRegor` recycles his joke from 2012
#
KartikPrabhu I also don't have "new year's resolutions" and a "blog habit"
#
KartikPrabhu gRegor`: you need to upgrade to 4k
#
gRegor` I don't get on myself for not writing or anything. Stuff happens. But I do enjoy when I'm posting more regularly; keeps the creativity going.
#
gRegor` That's the only reason I refer to it as getting in the habit.
#
GWG KartikPrabhu: I always worry that I spend more time building than writing.
#
GWG gRegor`: Was it you who proposed a writing period at HWC?
#
gRegor` No
#
gRegor` Tantek, I think
#
tantek it was Andi
#
GWG Okay.
#
GWG Either way, there's an option.
#
gRegor` Unfortunately, unless some more regulars start coming, Chicago HWC may not continue past April. I'm planning to move to WA then.
#
GWG gRegor`: HWC Bellingham?
#
KartikPrabhu gRegor`: I don't think there are "more regulars" :P
#
gRegor` I think there *could* be. Chicago tech scene is big enough. I'm just not really connected to it.
#
GWG By comparison, HWC New York has a perfect attendance record.
#
GWG We've had 0% attendance every month
#
gRegor` I'd do HWC Bellingham if there was any interest.
#
GWG gRegor`: You need to make friends and influence people first
#
gRegor` Thanks, Dale. :)
#
gRegor` Plus side: Closer to IWC 2015
#
GWG I've always wanted to see Portland.
#
gRegor` I was only there a couple days, but I really loved it.
#
gregorlove.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+86) "/* Up-and-coming Meetings */ +Bellingham, WA" (view diff)
#
gregorlove.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+8) "/* Up-and-coming Meetings */ formatting" (view diff)
djruffkutz, KartikPrabhu and prtksxna joined the channel
#
Loqi [mention] http://x627.com/starting-over/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/next-hwc (pingback)
KartikPrabhu, snarfed and clintpatty joined the channel
#
tantek forgot to add myself to like examples in the wild
#
KartikPrabhu tantek: how does falcon do post updates? does it write in a temp file then switch or directly overwrite the original file?
#
tantek no there are two files, one it reads from the other it writes to, for each bim
#
KartikPrabhu how do they stay in sync?
#
tantek.com edited /like (+1124) "add myself to indieweb examples, add some design steps for further clustering of adjacent likes of the same person's stuff" (view diff)
#
tantek KartikPrabhu: they don't need to
#
tantek think of one file as the "manual override", and the second is where all the "automatic" stuff is saved
#
KartikPrabhu so which one is read when you display a post?
#
tantek both
#
KartikPrabhu so how do you update the content?
#
KartikPrabhu manually?
#
tantek currently manually yes - in the first file
#
KartikPrabhu aah ok
#
KartikPrabhu I am having trouble with mine since I add syndication links after posting and POSSEing, maybe syndication links should be stored in another file
#
tantek my syndication links are stored in the second file, since those are "automatically" added
#
tantek except when I manually POSSE e.g. with Bridgy Publish, then I add those syndication links to the first file
#
tantek when displaying, the two sets of syndication links are unioned per post
#
KartikPrabhu aah i see
#
ben_thatmust !tell kylewm the gallery button is not behaving, hasn't ever worked for me, its next on my list of bugs to fix
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
kylewm oh cool, not just me then
#
Loqi kylewm: ben_thatmust left you a message 1 minute ago: the gallery button is not behaving, hasn't ever worked for me, its next on my list of bugs to fix
#
KartikPrabhu man file storage updates are hard
#
tantek KartikPrabhu: yes - it's non trivial
#
tantek any kind of storage system update for that matter, whether file, db schemas etc.
indie-visitor joined the channel
#
Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
#
ben_thatmust also as far as being overwhelmed by writing apps, I can't recommend cordova enough
#
ben_thatmust amazingly simple
#
ben_thatmust it should be able to tie in to push notifications for google and apple
#
ben_thatmust without much issue
#
ben_thatmust haven't dug into that too much yet
#
ben_thatmust anyway, back to bed
#
ben_thatmust just got up to fix video and audio file markup on my site
flowyi, davemenninger, flowyi_, flowyi__, flowyi___ and KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
aaronpk GWG: I reaaaaalllly want my house to have a website where it just posts stuff all day long from all the sensors, and I could send it webmentions to control the lights and stuff
#
aaronpk I was *this close* to setting up a website for it, but my cat got a website first
#
aaronpk although I feel like she's not taking advantage of it enough
#
KartikPrabhu aaronpk: maybe your house can chat with your cat through webmention when you are gone
#
aaronpk KartikPrabhu++
#
Loqi KartikPrabhu has 87 karma
#
KartikPrabhu aaronpk: how many karma points is a webmention enabled cat?
ooland, KevinMarks_, prtksxna, nloadholtes and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@simonv3 Love this part of HomeBrew Website Club that has a "Quiet Writing Hour" before the meetup. http://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/554190856635183104)
KevinMarks__, eburcat, davemenninger, asdofindia, michielbdejong and barryf joined the channel
#
@djp1974 RT @cubicgarden: Loving the new clues of the @cluetrain. We got to talk about this and #indieweb at @commongroundmcr @Julianlstar @davemee … (twitter.com/_/status/554218964188811264)
catsup and simonv3 joined the channel
#
@derhess Massive list of #indieweb tools for #indiedev: redecentralize/alternative-internet --> https://github.com/redecentralize/alternative-internet/blob/master/README.md == save the internet! ;-) (twitter.com/_/status/554228580277035008)
#
@TheIndieSloth RT @derhess: Massive list of #indieweb tools for #indiedev: redecentralize/alternative-internet --> https://github.com/redecentralize/alternative-internet/blob/master/README.md == save the int… (twitter.com/_/status/554228625495851008)
catsup joined the channel
#
@GameDevRobot RT @derhess: Massive list of #indieweb tools for #indiedev: redecentralize/alternative-internet --> https://github.com/redecentralize/alternative-internet/blob/master/README.md == save the int… (twitter.com/_/status/554228992551964672)
#
@IndieGameDevBot RT @derhess: Massive list of #indieweb tools for #indiedev: redecentralize/alternative-internet --> https://github.com/redecentralize/alternative-internet/blob/master/README.md == save the int… (twitter.com/_/status/554229807899492352)
catsup, prtksxna, fiatjaf, krendil, KartikPrabhu, eburcat_, simonv3 and kronda joined the channel
#
@aaronpk @veganstraightedge rel="payment" http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988#page-14 http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-payment http://indiewebcamp.com/payment @t @benward @chrismessina (twitter.com/_/status/554274849682886656)
#
Loqi [mention] Aaron Parecki commented '@veganstraightedge rel=payment http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988#page-14 http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-payment http://indiewebcamp.com...' on a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/payment (https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2015/01/11/1/payment)
eburcat, eburcat_, hidgw and mnot joined the channel
#
mnot Quick Q: what's the proposal for ## fragments on links?
eburcat and michielbdejong joined the channel
#
kylewm what is fragmention?
#
Loqi A fragmention is an experimental extension to a URL to link and cite individual words or phrases of a document using double-hash anchors (##) https://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention
#
kylewm mnot^^
#
kylewm though I believe Kevinmarks is dropping the second #
prtksxna and Kopfstein joined the channel
#
mnot that's it, thanks!
snarfed joined the channel
#
GWG Do people tag/categorize likes?
#
aaronpk I don't, because the only thing my likes have is the URL of the thing i'm liking and the date
#
aaronpk if I want to tag something then i post it as a bookmark
#
GWG aaronpk: Please don't say that
#
GWG I'm still confused about where Bookmark fits in vs Like and such
#
kylewm I do once in a while, but agree that it's more like a bookmark in that case e.g. https://kylewm.com/2015/01/like-of-mats-sjo-berg-why-i-think-pump-io-should
#
GWG I also thought a like had no commentary
#
GWG I'm trying to style the elements
#
kylewm I'd definitely say it shouldn't have commentary
#
GWG If it is commentary, isn't it a reply?
#
kylewm yes
#
kylewm side note, i'm mpressed to discover that blog that i linked to is using mf2
#
GWG Why do I keep ending up in this rabbit hole?
#
aaronpk GWG: lol
#
GWG aaronpk: So far, I just keep coming back to it
#
kylewm GWG: it's a moving target, the specs/recommendations are changing because we are building them!
#
GWG kylewm: You think what a like is would be easier
tantek and gmack joined the channel
#
tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
#
GWG Good morning, tantek
#
tantek and welcome back mnot!
Erkan_Yilmaz and wolftune joined the channel
#
pdurbin mornin'
eburcat, mlncn and vrypan joined the channel
#
KevinMarks__ Hi mnot - I have been dropping the second #, as that is an invalid URL at the moment, and including a space in the fragment differentiates from an id
nloadholtes joined the channel
#
KevinMarks__ See http://www.kevinmarks.com/poemfragmentions.html#we+get+rid+of
#
tantek GWG, you said "You think what a like is would be easier", could you rephrase anything you think is not easy as a question?
#
GWG tantek: It's the variant
#
tantek that's not a question ;)
#
GWG I'm elaborating
#
GWG If I have a URL, and I want to respond to it in some way... I can...
#
GWG Like it - Does this mean I like the subject or the commenter?
#
GWG Bookmark it - That means what?
#
GWG Favorite it - Does this mean I like the subject or the commenter? Or even the comment?
#
GWG So on
#
tantek re: Like it - Does this mean I like the subject or the commenter? >> It means you like "it".
#
tantek re: Bookmark it - That means what? >> can be rephrased as What is a bookmark?
#
Loqi A bookmark (or linkblog) is a post that is primarily comprised of a URL, often title text from that URL, sometimes optional text describing, tagging, or quoting from its contents https://indiewebcamp.com/bookmark
#
tantek re: Favorite it - Does this mean I like the subject or the commenter? Or even the comment? >> It means "it" is a favorite of yours.
#
tantek s/It means/That means
#
Loqi tantek meant to say: re: Favorite it - Does this mean I like the subject or the commenter? Or even the comment? >> That means "it" is a favorite of yours.
#
tantek If you want to "like" a person (i.e. the "commenter" you said above), you can simply like their home page as a representation of them. Same thing with favorite.
#
tantek HTH
#
GWG tantek: I think this needs a wiki page.
#
GWG I'm just not sure of a title
#
tantek GWG - if you can rephrase your questions as simple questions one at a time, we can add them to FAQs.
#
tantek for each of the pages /like /bookmark /favorite
#
GWG What is the difference between a reply, a bookmark, a favorite, a like, and a repost?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "difference between a reply, a bookmark, a favorite, a like, and a repost" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=difference+between+a+reply%2C+a+bookmark%2C+a+favorite%2C+a+like%2C+and+a+repost
#
tantek what are post kinds?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "post kinds" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=post+kinds
#
GWG I get some of the differences, but I find that there is a lot of drifts between people.
#
GWG Especially when you get to what elements each is?
#
GWG What are posts?
#
tantek no need to stop at that set
#
Loqi Post or posts may refer to: https://indiewebcamp.com/posts
#
tantek you're asking about post kinds in general
#
GWG The kinds page is inside posts
#
tantek.com created /post_kinds (+34) "r" (view diff)
#
GWG tantek: https://david.shanske.com/2015/01/10/post-types-post-formats-post-kinds/
#
GWG If you create new pages, I might have to edit that
#
tantek GWG - saw it - doesn't apply here since that's more about the WordPress specific plumbing
#
GWG It is
#
GWG Except post kinds are my way of taking Indieweb to WordPress
#
GWG The other two are WordPress already
#
tantek right, that extra complexity is a WordPress problem, nothing to do with distinguishing post kinds or types on the indieweb
#
tantek from a UI perspective, no user should care about the difference that your describing between post formats/types/kinds
#
tantek from a dev perspective, I understand the need for good architectural documentation of such differences - but that's plumbing - not UI
#
KevinMarks__ Difference between favourite and like - a taxonomy of favorite http://time.com/4336/a-simple-guide-to-twitter-favs/
#
tantek KevinMarks: that page won't scroll without JS.
#
tantek seriously broken
#
GWG tantek: I'm more confused about usage
#
GWG Not about plumbing
#
GWG I built the plumbing for both. Though I am still debating whether to use PVC or copper
#
KevinMarks__ I like Jessica's empiricism there
#
tantek select all, copy, paste into a text editor, read.
#
tantek timedotcom--
Gold joined the channel
#
Loqi timedotcom has -1 karma
#
KevinMarks__ When mid publications complain about The Web they usually mean their own crappy websites
#
ben_thatmust !tell kylewm latest build has gallery button working
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
KevinMarks__ s/mid/media/
#
Loqi KevinMarks__ meant to say: When media publications complain about The Web they usually mean their own crappy websites
#
ben_thatmust i have been posting a lot more often since i made MobilePub
#
ben_thatmust i am quite happy with it
vrypan joined the channel
#
KevinMarks__ That's a good sign Ben
#
Loqi [mention] http://www.michelevlorusso.eu/new-clues/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Principles (pingback)
eschnou and smcgregor joined the channel
#
Loqi [bridgy] Shane Becker replied '@aaronpk That's the one! Thank you. I was looking and looking and not seeing it. Figured it was there and I was glazing over it.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/payment (https://twitter.com/veganstraightedge/status/554360823263408128)
michielbdejong and mlncn joined the channel
#
@unicomplex unable to read https://blog.vrypan.net/2013/09/27/crafting-my-blog/ due to #cloudflare blocking #tor users , no chance of helping test the #webmentions then. (twitter.com/_/status/554374313558962176)
#
GWG How is this shaping up?
#
GWG https://tiny.n9n.us/
krendil, mlncn and nloadholtes joined the channel
#
GWG I think I am marking up correctly
friedcell joined the channel
#
@WoodBangersLLC check it, follow us, and support fun. http://www.twitch.tv/woodbangers via @sinistergp @indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/554392620063936512)
#
GWG aaronpk: You didn't snag the Twitter handle?
aaronpk_ joined the channel
#
aaronpk_ Sadly no, @indieauth has been taken since 2011 and has no tweets
#
aaronpk_ I got @indie_auth tho
#
GWG aaronpk_: How's the burrito?
mlncn and gRegor` joined the channel
#
@SINISTERGP RT @WoodBangersLLC: check it, follow us, and support fun. http://www.twitch.tv/woodbangers via @sinistergp @indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/554397931063607297)
snarfed, mnot, lukebrooker, KevinMarks_, prtksxna and donpdonp joined the channel
#
donpdonp just a heads up on an indie-ish project to remake irc by @hackerbeach (carribean island of dominica) project account @join67p
KevinMarks__ joined the channel
#
GWG prtksxna: You there?
#
prtksxna GWG: Hey
#
Loqi prtksxna: GWG left you a message on 1/9 at 5:59pm: Discovered another bug in Post Kinds that would affect you. Might want to update for the fix.
#
GWG prtksxna: Guess you got my message
#
prtksxna GWG: Yup :)
#
prtksxna GWG: I just woke up, its 5 here, I'll be functional in a bit :P
#
GWG Oh. Always forget time differences