#indiewebcamp 2015-07-20

2015-07-20 UTC
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notenoughneon.com
created /Skein (+325) "Created page with "Skein is an indieweb microblog developed by [[User:notenoughneon.com|Emma Kuo]] and running on [http://notenoughneon.com notenoughneon.com]. It is the successor to [[Neonblog]], ...""
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snarfed
micropub server semantics question: i'm guessing we should generally follow the unix philosophy and do exactly what the client asks, right?
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snarfed
e.g. if they edit an existing post and give us a published timestamp, we should change it on the existing post even though it's technically a "lie," right?
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snarfed
e.g. they might have set it incorrectly originally
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tantek
snarfed - it might be a correction of a previous error
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snarfed
agreed
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tantek
e.g. a buggy client that set an incorrect published date, then updated to send the correct value
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tantek
GWG, have you been in touch with Zach about a possible HWC NYC on the 29th? http://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc#Where
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notenoughneon.com
edited /Micropub (+203) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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GWG
snarfed: Then I have to define Postly as a buggy client, but I'll revert
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GWG
tantek: I've reached out. But haven't heard anything. Will try again
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snarfed
yup, i'm sure ben_thatmustbeme won't mind updating postly to not send published= in edits
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GWG
I'm giving him a lot of Issue reports
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GWG
snarfed: Postly has no options to not send all fields.
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GWG
snarfed: So his edit is more Replace All, than edit in function
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tantek
brace yourselves
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tantek
bridgy invitations inbound
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GWG
stands behind tantek
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bear
oh my word - it's a good thing loqi doesn't auto-add flooders
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tantek
what is eBay?
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tantek
eBay is a marketplace for people and companies to sell goods, typically as an auction with bids and an end time.
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loqi.me
created /eBay (+139) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-19/line/1437354658358 and dfn added by tantek"
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tantek.com
edited /eBay (+66) "see also"
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snarfed
!tell pfefferle,acegiak hi! looks like your semantic-linkbacks repos have diverged, and each one has useful new features (filters vs salmentions). mind picking one to be the single canonical repo, and then merge them? thanks in advance!
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
wow interesting
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tantek
heh, https://ebay.com/ gives a cert warning but https://www.ebay.com/ works
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tantek
nice to know even the big boys have problems making their wildcard certs work
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tantek.com
edited /eBay (+23) "link ebay"
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tantek
what is Ancestry.com?
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tantek
Ancestry.com is a set of genealogy [[silos]].
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loqi.me
created /Ancestry.com (+72) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-19/line/1437355336605 and dfn added by tantek"
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tantek.com
edited /Ancestry.com (+62) "link, see also"
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tantek.com
edited /OpenID (-34) "/* Consuming Sites */ vox.com domain repurposed from old silo to new media publishing company"
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tantek
hmm - looks like a lot of supposed consuming sites for OpenID are dead now or not consuming
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tantek
going to move them to shutdowns
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tantek.com
edited /OpenID (+477) "tons of shutdowns of openid consuming support, including SourceForge (?openid URL trick just causes a 404), gitorius etc. verfiied they're all gone, moved to Shutdowns"
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tantek.com
edited /OpenID (+677) "/* Consuming Sites */ only two currently function. all others appear to be broken."
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tantek
we're down to only TWO known *functional* consuming sites for OpenID: https://indiewebcamp.com/OpenID#Consuming_Sites - all others have shutdown or have failures
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tantek
if anyone knows of any other site besides Open Source Bridge and OpenStreetMap that still consumes OpenID, please add it (and be sure to check the shutdown/problems lists first).
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bret
Stack overflow
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tantek
We may have crossed the threshold of where there are more IndieAuth consuming sites now than OpenID consuming sites.
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tantek
bret - have you tried Stack Overflow recently? It just failed for me with "Message signature was incorrect."
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bret
I mean I did the other week
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bret
Pypi also
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tantek
what is Pypi?
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bret
Python package index. Mobile right now otherwise I'd make the dfn
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tantek
you can always tell Loqi
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Loqi
grins profusely
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bret
I don't remember how :(
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tantek
!tell cweiske it appears nearly all OpenID consuming sites have shutdown, shutdown their OpenID login UI, OpenID login endpoints (URL), or are have persistently broken OpenID consumption flows (reproduceable errors). Down to 2 verified functional. If you know of more, please add: https://indiewebcamp.com/OpenID#Consuming_Sites
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
bret you say something is blah
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bret
pypi is the Python package index which hosts Python packages that can be installed with pip.
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loqi.me
created /pypi (+119) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-19/line/1437357457659 and dfn added by bret"
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bret
Nice
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tantek
per archive.org, myopenid disappeared in June 2014
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: confirmed re stack overflow, I've logged in recently with openid too
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tantek
snarfed, with which openid provider?
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tantek.com
edited /site-deaths (+220) "move myOpenID to 2014 per Archive.org citation"
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tantek.com
edited /2014-review (+86) "/* Breaking The Web */ myOpenID.com shutdown"
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tantek
snarfed, I'm wondering if perhaps Stack Overflow and IndieAuth.com as OpenID provider are not compatible (both aaronpk and I had problems with Stack Overflow login, and we both use IndieAuth.com as our OpenID provider)
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: WordPress plugin
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: sure, sounds possible
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: whee interop
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aaronpk
hm someone opened an issue on indieauth.com about stackoverflow not working https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/99
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aaronpk
oh darn, i'm not logging openid consuming sites from indieauth.com logins, just logging the fact that someone signed in to an openid site
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aaronpk
interestingly, there have been almost as many openid logins as wiki logins
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aaronpk
quill is way up there too, way above ownyourgram
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tantek.com
edited /OpenID (+269) "/* Consuming Sites */ move Stack Overflow up to still consuming since verified by snarfed with WordPress OpenID plugin, note issue with IndieAuth vs S.O."
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tantek
thanks snarfed, aaronpk - results and issue cited.
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tantek
hmm what is SimpleID
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tantek
is SourceForge dead or just in maintenance?
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tantek.com
edited /OpenID (+286) "/* Consuming Sites */ note others having problems with Stack Overflow, citation from aaronpk"
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tantek
what is Vox Media?
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tantek
Vox Media is a media publishing site that acquired former [[silo]] company [[SixApart]], and re-used their vox.com [[silo]] domain for media publishing, breaking all previous vox.com blogs and permalinks.
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loqi.me
created /Vox_Media (+231) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-19/line/1437359612292 and dfn added by tantek"
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tantek.com
edited /Vox_Media (+82) "link Vox Media site, see also"
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ben_thatmustbeme
snarfed, GWG, i don't send published timestamp at all in the micropub client
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ben_thatmustbeme
in edits or new notes
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: Then where is it getting it?
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ben_thatmustbeme
on my side i get it after it gets to the endpoint
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ben_thatmustbeme
i send them in mobilepub because the posts can be saved and thus published in the past
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ben_thatmustbeme
but if its getting a published timestamp its certainly not from my /new client
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ben_thatmustbeme
i checked the data sending from the client and receiving on my end, and its not there
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GWG
But the blank fields are all there.
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GWG
I am right about that, I think.
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ben_thatmustbeme
there are blank fields, but published is not one of them
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GWG
Yes. I meant my statement that your implementation of edit is a complete replacement of all fields.
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GWG
Must be something I'm missing
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ben_thatmustbeme
was "date" supposed to be "data" ?
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ben_thatmustbeme
i don't send "published"
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ben_thatmustbeme
i do send empty fields
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ben_thatmustbeme
since they are not populated, its assumed you want them empty
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GWG
I just added the debug.
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GWG
Something is resetting published
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ben_thatmustbeme
not on my end
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GWG
Yes. I'm seeing that.
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GWG
So, where is it coming from?
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ben_thatmustbeme
what are you testing this in?
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Loqi
who, me?
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GWG
Just in WordPress
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: request already filed for Loqi to ignore "what are" "what is" questions ending in a preposition.
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GWG
You send a lot of empty fields.
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ben_thatmustbeme
all the post types overlap
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ben_thatmustbeme
and i don't use any JS other than to hide / show fields
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GWG
Yes, but it means the time reset it on the WordPress side.
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ben_thatmustbeme
so a bunch of empty ones are sent
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ben_thatmustbeme
i should just update to not send any empty fields
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Loqi
it is probable
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: That is what I'd expect from Edit.
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ben_thatmustbeme
although i want to see what happens with edit functionality now that the spec changed so much
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ben_thatmustbeme
GWG, no, edit should send all empty fields
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ben_thatmustbeme
otherwise you would have no way to remove data
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GWG
Isn't that delete?
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GWG
Under the new standard?
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ben_thatmustbeme
this is under old standard
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tantek
chuckles and new vs. old
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tantek
s/and/at
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: chuckles at new vs. old
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ben_thatmustbeme
has to review new standard, changed without consulting the only person who actually had an edit mp client
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ben_thatmustbeme
so much for process
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tantek
that's not process, that's just plain rational courtesy ;)
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tantek
it's good form to check with your implementers before you change things, and try to get some consensus - that's what we're doing now with all microformats2 parser changes btw
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ben_thatmustbeme
indeed tantek
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ben_thatmustbeme
a lot of things changed in the micropub spec and i'm not really liking them all
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ben_thatmustbeme
they didn't even go to the "brainstorming" page at all
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: had you documented your "edit" support somewhere on the micropub page and aaronpk just missed it?
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tantek
yeah - an iteration on brainstorming would have been a good intermediate step, now that we have so many live implementations of micropub
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ben_thatmustbeme
it was not on the micropub list of clients, someone pointed that out earlier
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tantek
ah - sounds like there may have been a lack of communication
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ben_thatmustbeme
i still prefer the mp- prefixes
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ben_thatmustbeme
I need to review the currect wiki page much closer and think it all through though
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ben_thatmustbeme
this is the problem with being too busy at work to catch up on all the logs anymore
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GWG
I just don't know how to keep backward compatible in this case.
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ben_thatmustbeme
oh, also, GWG, didn't your plugin for WP support editing previously too
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ben_thatmustbeme
i seem to remember that being the case
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: I'm just a contributor.
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GWG
The edit functionality, from what I can tell, has some bugs.
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ben_thatmustbeme
ahh, good to get this all worked out while there are few implementations of edit then
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GWG
That's my goal.
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tantek
definitely
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GWG
I want to ensure the standard won't change if I fix the implementation.
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tantek
GWG, it's always a process of iteration
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tantek
you cannot ever ensure the standard won't change
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GWG
tantek: I meant from day to day.
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tantek
all you can do is try to implement the current standard, and report back if it works or not for you
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tantek
for example, if you find problems while implementing, then the standard will likely change in response
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ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, not sure i like the idea of the edit-of delete-of etc
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: possible to capture these as "Issues" on the wiki?
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ben_thatmustbeme
as you could set both
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: will do
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tantek
sure that's likely to prompt a preference order of processing which should be there anyway
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tantek
I'd suggest treating such conflicts in the apparently least lossy way
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ben_thatmustbeme
single field eliminates all trouble with that though
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tantek
that is, given both, treat as edit-of
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ben_thatmustbeme
also makes for simpler when using a form
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tantek
that's a good point
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ben_thatmustbeme
just becomes a radio button or select
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tantek
assuming it's possible to make a form for edits or deletes
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tantek
perhaps you can upload a screenshot to illustrate?
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tantek
at least to capture your idea
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tantek
(even if it is not a functional form)
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'll see what i can work up
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ben_thatmustbeme
in bed right now, but there is a train ride tomorrow :D
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david.shanske.com
edited /Micropub (+3) "/* Reserved properties */"
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GWG
I think that makes that properties section easier to interpret
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ben_thatmustbeme
i just always think back to that being a big way bugs are introduced
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ben_thatmustbeme
RFCs never told you what to do if you got SYN-FIN-ACK all in the same packet
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ben_thatmustbeme
makes for more complexity for the endpoint implementer (having to figure out what is least destructive)
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david.shanske.com
edited /Micropub (+53) "/* Reserved properties */"
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GWG
I'm just trying some cleanup.
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: my point is that the spec should use that as a design principle and then still be explicit
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tantek
rather than leave any such cognitive burden up to the endpoint implementer
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tantek
I was suggesting an explicit spec resolution for your question / issue
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm just brainstorming at this moment, getting my thoughts down so i can reference the IRC logs later
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think you may be right that it really doesn't make sense to have that as a single form for delete/edit
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GWG
Does it make sense for me to clean up the page a bit?
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GWG
Or do I not know enough about this to try to organize it a bit?
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ben_thatmustbeme
i don't see why not. You have been doing a ton of testing of MP
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Loqi
GWG has 108 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme
greatly appreciated
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GWG
I'm not changing anything.
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+724) "/* Explicit CRUD */ notes on explicit crud"
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ben_thatmustbeme
realized he can put his template in his actual signature in mediawiki settings, making '~~~~' much more useful
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GWG
I think that helps
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ben_thatmustbeme
okay, off to bed
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ben_thatmustbeme
goodnight all
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Loqi
laila tov!
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david.shanske.com
created /Micropub_Examples (+8864) "Created page with "Examples of IndieWeb sites that support the micropub API (in order of deployment). === Aaron Parecki === {{aaronpk}} supports publishing various post types on aaronparecki.com u...""
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tantek
huh - why move the examples to a separate page?
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tantek
it's much more compelling to have them listed right there up front on the Micropub page itself
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tantek
at least in summary list form!
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GWG
The page was getting too long, I thought.
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tantek
the existence of implementations is definitely not something to burry
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tantek
s/burry/bury
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: the existence of implementations is definitely not something to bury
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tantek
into a nested page
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tantek
if anything, it's one of the biggest strengths of micropub that should be very obvious up front & center
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tantek
at a minimum, date-ordered list of implementations, with date (linked to cite) of when deployed and in use
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tantek
that kind of rapid progress shows momentum for anyone else considering implementing the spec
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GWG
What does that look like?
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tantek
which is a huge part of what a spec needs to prove frankly, whether it is worth implementing
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tantek
GWG, the existing examples are in date order - so that's a good start
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tantek
basically, the existing examples serve that purpose, if you want to change them, please make sure you don't break that aspect of the page
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GWG
Let me see if I can address both concerns.
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david.shanske.com
edited /Micropub () "(-7418)"
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GWG
tantek: Does that work?
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david.shanske.com
edited /Micropub (-4) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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tantek
GWG, not quite - the loss of headers means loss of numbering
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GWG
Okay. Will revert. It just seems like the page is unwieldy.
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tantek
I'd say keep the headers (since they were permalinks before), and just give each one a {{main|...}} link that links to the more extensive version
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KartikPrabhu
updated homepage to list a Atom feed for Notes generated using hfeed2atom !
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 106 karma
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KartikPrabhu
weird though that Firefox does not show the <content> of an Atom entry only <summary>. Harder to debug.
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tantek
presumably you can still view source?
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KartikPrabhu
yes. view source does have it. But a more visual representation would be very useful
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snarfed
hey KartikPrabhu btw, i'm guessing you still haven't seend bridgy backfeed for your notes h-feed yet right?
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: I assumed it would update when I posted a new note and it looks for the feed
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KartikPrabhu
will keep an eye out for it
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snarfed
afaik it should have noticed before that
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KartikPrabhu
intersting let me check
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snarfed
kylewm any idea why the all-h-feeds change might not be working?
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: no. it hasn't backfed the old posts yet. Bridgy page still show "No post links found "
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david.shanske.com
edited /Micropub () "(-2434) /* IndieWeb Examples */"
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GWG
tantek: That work?
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KartikPrabhu
yay! Feedly show my note feed alright! except it wants to put my logo as "featured image" dumb thing
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Loqi
giggles
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KartikPrabhu
that's not nice Loqi! :)
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: about to post note about updated use of hfeed2atom. Let's see if bridgy picks it up
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: weird! Bridgy publish says "Could not fetch source URL https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/hfeed2atom-notes "
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GWG
Okay. Done for now
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: i think i know why. i'll try fixing
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: cool! let me know when to test it again
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kevinmarks.com
edited /OpenID (+152) "/* Consuming Sites -Blogger */"
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tantek
GWG, that still breaks the seeing explicit support on what URL since when
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tantek
Each person/site still needs that explicit summary statement to make it clear *what* has been implemented since *when*
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GWG
I think I should just revert the section and give up.
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tantek
GWG - does the preference to keep that information inline not seem valuable to you?
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GWG
Yes, I just don't know how to balance that.
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david.shanske.com
edited /Micropub (+2434) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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david.shanske.com
edited /Micropub_Examples () "(-8864) Blanked the page"
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tantek.com
edited /2014-review (+3) "move IWC Online subsection to IndieWebCamps"
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acegiak
Morning all!
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Loqi
acegiak: snarfed left you a message 3 hours, 26 minutes ago: hi! looks like your semantic-linkbacks repos have diverged, and each one has useful new features (filters vs salmentions). mind picking one to be the single canonical repo, and then merge them? thanks in advance! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-19/line/1437355029097
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GWG
Morning, acegiak
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GWG
Been a few days.
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tantek
KevinMarks: odd - just tried my twitter home page and it loaded
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tantek
and 7 minutes of distraction later, twitter home page tab closed
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tantek
wow weather.com has gone js;dr
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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acegiak
GWG: Hi! Yeah it was a big weekend for me
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theRealChupacabr
so just curious..and a fairly elementary question I think...but what is the difference between Javascript and AngularJS..and why would I use one over the other? Seems to me like AngularJS is just built on top of JS?
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tantek
seems like theRealChupcabr answered their own question?
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kylewm
snarfed: KartikPrabhu: i think it's an SSL error so we're not able to do original post discovery on K's site at all
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kylewm
SSLError: hostname 'kartikprabhu.com' doesn't match either of '*.webfaction.com', 'webfaction.com'
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snarfed
kylewm: agreed. i just deployed with my dep versions, that may fix it
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kylewm
crosses fingers and waits 2 hours
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kylewm
snarfed++ for wading through python/ssl version interdependencies
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Loqi
snarfed has 117 karma
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snarfed
we need a refetch h-feed version :P
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snarfed
eh you did as much as me!
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snarfed
and i still haven't fixed the requirements.txts, just deployed from my existing virtualenv
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kylewm
indeed
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kylewm
any guesses about why requests-oauthlib + GAE + Flickr might not be working? same code works from my command line but fails in the dev_appserver interactive console
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kylewm
i'd guess it has something to do with what kevin was saying earlier, the fetch infrastructure
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snarfed
huh. there was a bug like that a while back that they fixed. let me find it
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snarfed
fwiw https://oauth-dropins.appspot.com/ does the flickr oauth dance ok right now
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kylewm
oh of course! i remember that issue
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cweiske
!tell tanktek I don't have a list of sites I logged in via OpenID *because I did not need to write them down* in my password manager
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Loqi
cweiske: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 36 minutes ago: it appears nearly all OpenID consuming sites have shutdown, shutdown their OpenID login UI, OpenID login endpoints (URL), or are have persistently broken OpenID consumption flows (reproduceable errors). Down to 2 verified functional. If you know of more, please add: https://indiewebcamp.com/OpenID#Consuming_Sites http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-19/line/1437357541443
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm
i'll try updating my sdk
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kylewm
thanks, sheesh bad memory me
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tanktek
:P
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Loqi
tanktek: cweiske left you a message 1 minute ago: I don't have a list of sites I logged in via OpenID *because I did not need to write them down* in my password manager http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-19/line/1437370527209
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: kylewm: odd that python ssl libs are so broken
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snarfed
they're not. it's complicated interop between a number of different libs and app engine
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KartikPrabhu
so i should re-try that post in a couple of hours?
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snarfed
you can start down the rabbit hole in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/396 and follow shazow's link
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theRealChupacabr
not sure if anyone answered as I was disconnected. But I asked earlier the diff between AngularJS and JS. If someone already answered, my apologies but could you copy/paste answer again please?
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: oh, you're publishing! sorry, we thought this was just about backfeed. sure, retry now
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snarfed
theRealChupacabr: yes, AngularJS is on top of JS
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KartikPrabhu
theRealChupacabr: yes AngularJS is as abstraction framework over usual JS just like JQuery
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theRealChupacabr
ok..so the ideal way to learn this is to learn JS first then move to Angular?
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KartikPrabhu
depends on what/why you are learning
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theRealChupacabr
so whats the diff between JQuery and Angular? Anything worth noting? or just a preference thing
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cweiske
you're comparing apples to cars
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theRealChupacabr
just starting to get into web stuff
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: bridgy publish worked!
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: yay!
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed++
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Loqi
giggles
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Loqi
snarfed has 118 karma
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Loqi
kylewm has 192 karma
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tantek
theRealChupacabr: consider learning HTML first, then CSS, then JS
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theRealChupacabr
I've got a decent grip on HTML and CSS
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KartikPrabhu
theRealChupacabr: what is your goal?
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: backfeed also found new feed! sure nice
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snarfed
ah yay!
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Loqi
yay!
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theRealChupacabr
I'm not entirely new to coding....currently a CS student at PSU...but trying to branch out and explore different sides to things
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KartikPrabhu
theRealChupacabr: sure. but if you just want to learn things without a goal in mind there is too much
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theRealChupacabr
trying to start projects...building a website is on the "to-do" list
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KartikPrabhu
then start by building a website and learn things that you need to make things on the website
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theRealChupacabr
haha..fair enough.
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KartikPrabhu
HTML -> CSS ->JS other stuff as you need
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tantek
theRealChupacabr: building a website is a great way to start
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tantek
and if you're up for building a personal site for yourself, then you've come to the right place!
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KartikPrabhu
funny that I was at PSU some weeks back
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kylewm
snarfed: I already have the newest python sdk :(
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theRealChupacabr
yeah...I've been here before A.Case was a guest speaker for a class I had last year...She talked about this
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snarfed
kylewm: oh agreed, i don't think it's that exact bug, just maybe something similar
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theRealChupacabr
Its been on my list of things to-do...kinda been busy with school projects
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snarfed
but if oauth-dropins works in dev_appserver, then…maybe not
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snarfed
kylewm: yup oauth-dropins flickr works in current dev_appserver
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theRealChupacabr
Any recommendations on server space? Other than having my own personal server?
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cweiske.de
edited /OpenID (+91) "/* Consuming Sites */"
(view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
theRealChupacabr: I learnt everything I know about web stuff by building my own site. Learnt python from scratch on a need to know basis and had a website from scratch in 3 months
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KartikPrabhu
what is hosting?
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Loqi
Web hosting is perhaps the primary regular cost in maintaining an Indie Web Site (more expensive than most domain name registrations/renewals) https://indiewebcamp.com/hosting
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KartikPrabhu
theRealChupacabr: there ^
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theRealChupacabr
I know what hosting is :) I meant...recommendations as far as companies to go with
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cweiske
tantek, I could simply ask my openid provider for a list of sites
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tantek
theRealChupacabr: recommendations are on that page :)
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KartikPrabhu
theRealChupacabr: see the Loqi reply after my question. with the hyperlink
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theRealChupacabr
ah..gotcha..my bad..didn't see that.
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tantek
cweiske most such lists are out of date - that's the point
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cweiske
the ones (apart from the stackoverflow family and personal sites) I logged on in the last year
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tantek
did you miss what happen to Vox for example?
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cweiske
it's my personal list from the last 12 months
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tantek
really? where was the login? vox.com has been dead (of its blogging and openid support) since 2010-09-30
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cweiske
https://www.vox.com 2014-06-11 10:27:11 CEST
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cweiske
http://www.vox.com/ still has openid login
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cweiske
click the yellow bar on top
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cweiske
then the openid logo
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cweiske
yep, I'm logged in now
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cweiske
via openid
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cweiske.de
edited /OpenID (+53) "/* Consuming Sites */"
(view diff)
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tantek
hmm - I get "Sorry, there was a problem authenticating you with OpenId. Error: invalid_credentials"
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cweiske
which openid provider are you using?
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tantek
maybe an IndieAuth provider issue
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cweiske
probably. openid is likely the most untested part of indieauth.com
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tantek
cweiske - I'll keep documenting the issues, we can investigate as needed
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tantek.com
edited /OpenID (+203) "/* Consuming Sites */ noted vox.com login error"
(view diff)
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cweiske
tantek, so you're counting gitorious.org as openid shutdown when the site itself is being shutdown?
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cweiske
openid login on our gitorious instance @work is still working
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tantek
cweiske - that's gitorius as consuming software
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tantek
which itself is probably worth documenting
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tantek.com
edited /OpenID (+47) "/* 2015 */ scope vox shutdown to SixApart's Vox.com in particular, since modern vox.com has its own openid consuming support"
(view diff)
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@_sgimeno
RT @t: 5y+1d ago was the 1st Federated Social Web Summit #FSWS2010, a key inspiration for @IndieWebCamp. @evanpro ... http://tantek.com/2015/200/t1/fsws2010-inspiration-indiewebcamp
(twitter.com/_/status/623019204103512064)
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cweiske
tantek, do you have a feed with only the longer articles? without the tweets and likes and so?
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tantek
cweiske: in two forms, not quite equivalent, it's definitely on my Working On list
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cweiske
so no feed I can subscribe with tt-rss to
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tantek
possibly, let me double check
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cweiske
you have an updates.atom feed, but not for articles
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tantek
cweiske - I did a one-off just for articles, but it's not discoverable because the URL is a bit of a hack
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tantek
if that's ok with you (no guarantees of maintenance), then you may use http://tantek.com/updates.atom?ot=article
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tantek
(though I think it also works for s/article/note and s/article/like as a side-effect of how it's coded)
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tantek
cweiske: the other thing is that I often write long notes that are very article-like
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tantek
so the explicit post type distinction is not necessarily the most useful
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tantek
like I said, not the best solution, temporary, but you're welcome to use it if you're ok with those conditions :)
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cweiske
thanks, i'll do
ttepasse, voxpelli, evalica, Phae, ramsey, KevinMarks, JonathanNeal, benward, Garbee, rknLA, loic_m, bigbluehat, hugoroyd, jancborchardt, jden, tantek, mattl, csarven, petermolnar, bret, uranther and kronda joined the channel
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@jarofgreen
This weekend in Edinburgh: http://indiewebcamp.com/next-iwc for discussion of a open web where people own their own data.
(twitter.com/_/status/623042090814042112)
petermolnar, KevinMarks, tantek, ttepasse_, interactivist, Sebastien-L, evalica, j12t and LauraJ joined the channel
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@kevinmarks
@agoodcuppa I assume that you have eff and https://archive.org already covered. Would love to talk about #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/623059914882093056)
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@NCREDINBURGH
Pleased to announce we're hosting #IndieWebCamp in Edinburgh this weekend -> https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh
(twitter.com/_/status/623068887161171968)
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@0hjc
RT @NCREDINBURGH: Pleased to announce we're hosting #IndieWebCamp in Edinburgh this weekend -> https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh
(twitter.com/_/status/623069067130327040)
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petermolnar.eu
edited /Instagram (+330) "/* Criticism */"
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petermolnar.eu
edited /why (+185) "/* Identity loss */"
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@petermolnar
@ainiesta I recommed you reading a few of these stories, similar to what you've experienced with #instagram: http://indiewebcamp.com/why#Avoiding_problems
(twitter.com/_/status/623083372072595457)
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almereyda.de
edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (-206) "/* Creators */ Unfortunately I have to resign. No money plus http://www.serendubity.com/ calling."
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voxpelli
my micropub endpoint now supports multipart file uploads, so soon I will be able to use OwnYourGram – yay!
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Loqi
woot
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voxpelli
!tell aaronpk Seems like OwnYourGram is broken for at least new users right now: https://github.com/aaronpk/OwnYourGram/issues/11
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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LanceyWork
good morning everyone
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GWG
Good morning
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voxpelli
Good morning!
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petermolnar
good morning
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GWG
I seem to be having trouble with creating unit tests for micropub, something snarfed had suggested. I may need to step back.
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@almereyda
RT @jarofgreen: This weekend in Edinburgh: http://indiewebcamp.com/next-iwc for discussion of a open web where people own their own data.
(twitter.com/_/status/623103022068039681)
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voxpelli
GWG: want any help?
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GWG
voxpelli: I'm not sure how to approach this. Any advice is always welcome
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GWG
I was thinking of working on something else for a bit and returning.
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voxpelli
GWG: have you got any tests set up right now? or is the challenge you're having to get the first tests off the ground?
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GWG
voxpelli: I have nothing.
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voxpelli
GWG: I could try and get the basics of unit tests set up for you if you want?
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GWG
voxpelli: I wouldn't want to put you out on this.
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voxpelli
GWG: I will need to do it someday anyhow, will probably be creating some more WordPress things soon considering that I will be freelancing in the fall rather than working for a startup like the last year :)
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GWG
voxpelli: If you want to take a stab at it, you are always welcome. I've never done any unit testing and am still trying to figure out how to design one.
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voxpelli
GWG: my node.js micropub endpoint already has some unit tests so can probably convert some of those
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GWG
Link?
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GWG
In the meantime, I still have to fix some bugs in my last PR.
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: GWG: did the pippin tutorial not work?
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GWG
snarfed: Not exactly. It's based on a blank WordPress database.
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: sure, that's fine. I'm ok with that. iirc it clears it every time
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GWG
It's just a matter of wrapping my head around all this. Having trouble with that.
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GWG
voxpelli, snarfed: My usual approach when something is stumping me is to take a break and work on something else for a bit, and see if I come back with a fresh pair of eyes, if it seems to help. IWC Edinburgh is this weekend. Might put it off till after that.
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@paulrobertlloyd
Is it ‘Webmentions’ or ‘webmentions’? #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/623119728991715328)
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@jgarber
@paulrobertlloyd I’ve been going with lowercase “webmentions” in prose. Uppercase if it’s a heading or something like that.
(twitter.com/_/status/623124463727587328)
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@Covata
An interesting look at several Australian #cybersecurity companies whose stock is traded on the ASX. http://www.thebull.com.au/premium/a/54772-4-asx-cyber-security-stocks-for-a-growing-trend.html #OwnYourData
(twitter.com/_/status/623139515528560640)
hober2, kronda_, KevinMarks, Kongaloosh_, ben_thatmust, edsu_, shaungui1e, GWG-, jacus, MylesBraithwaite, Unifex, arlen, minsky, hidgw, renoirb, DanC_, ehlovader, modem, KevinMarks__, j12t and evalica joined the channel
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ben_thatmust
good morning #indiewebcamp
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+355) "/* Explicit CRUD */"
(view diff)
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rhiaro
good afternoon, ben_thatmustbeme
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aaronpk
good morning
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aaronpk
catching up on micropub discussion
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Loqi
aaronpk: voxpelli left you a message 3 hours, 51 minutes ago: Seems like OwnYourGram is broken for at least new users right now: https://github.com/aaronpk/OwnYourGram/issues/11 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-20/line/1437393430387
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aaronpk
voxpelli: thanks, fixed it :)
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voxpelli
aaronpk: thanks! now I need to fix my endpoint so that it understands the requests sent, so trying to set up OwnYourGram locally now
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aaronpk
cool! you could also use a localtunnel thingy to get ownyourgram to post to your local site
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voxpelli
that's true
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voxpelli
but good to have it setup anyhow I guess
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voxpelli
aaronpk: the ownyourgram repo seems to be missing an sql definition btw
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voxpelli
tried the one from Quill, but it's missing some fields
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aaronpk
heh sorry
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aaronpk
one sec
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aaronpk
sometimes I am lazy and don't add the SQL table because I don't actually expect anyone to use these :)
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voxpelli
aaronpk: thanks again :)
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voxpelli
aaronpk: also: a weird thing – out of laziness I tried my local OwnYourGram towards my live endpoint, the one I also tried with the live OwnYourGram. The local one worked, but the live one didnät
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aaronpk
Jeena just added support for sqlite to Quill, so I may try porting that to Ownyourgram too
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aaronpk
voxpelli: hm, with the same photo?
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aaronpk
i assume you're using the "test" button from the site?
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voxpelli
aaronpk: yep
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aaronpk
did you see any error on the site?
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voxpelli
aaronpk: I'm logging the requests to my endpoint and they are completely empty after I've tried parsing stuff from them – so something in the multipart parsing seems to be failing
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voxpelli
the file seems to be picked up, but none of the other data, but when I did the request from my local machine everything worked well
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@call_user_func
[New]fkooman/rest-plugin-authentication-indieauth IndieAuth plugin for fkooman/rest https://packagist.org/packages/fkooman/rest-plugin-authentication-indieauth
(twitter.com/_/status/623160482300497920)
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Jeena
aaronpk the ORM zou're using, can it also create tables and perhaps even do migrations? If so this would be neat to write the schema with it and have it available and updatable everywhere
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voxpelli
Jeena: doesn't look like it
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aaronpk
but I could write PHP code and migrations manually
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Jeena
na that is not worth it
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aaronpk
if the database were more complicated i would do it, but it's just one table and worst case if the table goes away people just log in again, so it's not like it's canonical data
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Jeena
exactlz
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Jeena
is there a keyboard shortcut to change between keyboard layouts in os x?
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voxpelli
aaronpk: any idea on what could be wrong with the multipart request on the live ownyourgram from the perspective of my endpoint? :P
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aaronpk
voxpelli: you're sure you're running the latest version locally?
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voxpelli
I installed it locally using "composer install", so the lock file should have made it be the same version of everything
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aaronpk
because I just switched it to encode the multipart requests itself
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voxpelli
I'm reverifying that now
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voxpelli
aaronpk: yes I am
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voxpelli
aaronpk: are you sure your live server updated the dependency properly? :P
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aaronpk
heh let me check
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aaronpk
as far as I can tell, yes
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voxpelli
aaronpk: and the live requests works for you?
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aaronpk
yeah, been working fine
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aaronpk
i broke it for adactio but fixed it the other day
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voxpelli
I guess I need to do some tunneling then
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aaronpk
checking some logs...
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aaronpk
wow lots of people using ownyourgram with a Known site
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aaronpk
but yeah seems to be working fine for everyone
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KevinMarks_
well known is the biggest micropub/indieauth installed base
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aaronpk
voxpelli: what server-side code are you using to handle the request? just built-in PHP parsing?
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KevinMarks_
used it over the weekend
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KevinMarks_
what is granary?
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KevinMarks_
hm, snarfed has no wiki page?
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+474) "Add attending.io signups"
(view diff)
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tantek
what is attending.io?
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voxpelli
aaronpk: so in other words: I use my own and am trying to get it to work :)
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rhiaro
attending.io is a lightweight silo for events registration
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loqi.me
created /attending.io (+85) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-20/line/1437409188744 and dfn added by rhiaro"
(view diff)
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rhiaro
Damnit I forgot the fullstop again.
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aaronpk
voxpelli: ooh okay, no idea what those do. it's sending content-transfer-encoding:binary
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KevinMarks_
granary is A library and REST API that frees you from social network API chaff and and exposes the sweet social data foodstuff inside as HTML and JSON with microformats2, ActivityStreams, Atom, XML, and more. https://granary-demo.appspot.com
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loqi.me
created /granary (+268) "prompted by KevinMarks_ https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-20/line/1437409136883 and dfn added by KevinMarks_"
(view diff)
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tantek
Loqi, you should add the period at the end of a definition if someone doesn't provide it, since you seem to need it yourself.
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Loqi
woot!
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voxpelli
aaronpk: that should be the same as https://gist.github.com/voxpelli/3fed4f1e5e15ace3f185 I guess, used that curl request as a reference
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voxpelli
and well – it works from one of the ownyourgram instances :)
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aaronpk
voxpelli: can you add a simple example server to https://github.com/aaronpk/php-multipart-encoder/tree/master/servers ?
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voxpelli
aaronpk: sure
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aaronpk
i can run node stuff on my laptop so I can try to take a look too
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+315) "/* Apprentices from email signup */"
(view diff)
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (-28) "/* Creators */"
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+3) "/* IndieWebCamp Edinburgh 2015 */"
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh (+0) "/* IndieWebCamp Edinburgh 2015 */"
(view diff)
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh (-19) "/* Schedule */"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
voxpelli++
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Loqi
voxpelli has 31 karma
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voxpelli
one thing that makes tunneling a bit hard is the coupling between ones identity and ones endpoint – I have to make my micropub endpoint part of an IndieAuth identity or pick another IndieAuth-compatible provider :P
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aaronpk
do you use any of the non-social logins for indieauth.com?
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aaronpk
like GPG or email?
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voxpelli
or rather: the coupling between the discovery of ones micropub endpoint and authentication endpoints – that both has to be discovered from the same URL
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aaronpk
easiest way I've found to test this stuff is just make a subfolder and put a GPG key or email address there, then you can point to your dev micropub endpoint from the subfolder
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voxpelli
aaronpk: nope, but right now I would just like to say to OwnYourGram: Hey, you know me – I'm "kodfabrik.se", but today I want to be crazy and post to a blog at "a-tunneled-example.com" rather than my ordinary site
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aaronpk
but you don't want to update your micropub endpoint on your site?
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voxpelli
well, I don't want to remove the current one
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tantek
aaronpk: IIRC tommorris uses Persona for IndieAuth
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aaronpk
yeah, it definitely is 1:1 identity:micropub
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aaronpk
yeah i use persona about half the time i sign in
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voxpelli
I think it makes sense to ask two questions – "Who are you?" and "Where do you want to post?" – sometimes one can be implied from the other, but at other times not
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tantek
voxpelli: perhaps that routing to another blog should be done by your site?
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aaronpk
the problem with that is it adds an extra UI step every time you sign in
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tantek
e.g. it sounds like a case of a private personal site post that you publicly POSSE to another site
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tantek
aaronpk: agreed
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voxpelli
tantek: I currently have two standard sites + one development sites I want to have set up and I can only point my site at one of them
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tantek
aaronpk - the silo analogy here is the Twitter client's support for posting to multiple Twitter accounts
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aaronpk
yeah I would recommend setting up a separate indieauth ID, either a subfolder or subdomain
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voxpelli
aaronpk: it only needs to add an extra UI step if it only found one of the two pieces it needed
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aaronpk
voxpelli: but every client would have to implement that, and it would be a huge burden on clients
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aaronpk
I wonder...
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aaronpk
I wonder if the auth server could let the user choose it
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tantek
aaronpk: makes sense to make it a client burden
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KevinMarks_
at the moment it is a publisher burden
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tantek
supporting multiple accounts (like the Twitter app does) is more of a UI problem, and thus the focus should be on the client being smart about it
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voxpelli
not that much of a burden, just an extra request to ask for a place to discover the micropub endpoint if one isn't found at ones identity
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aaronpk
like if the auth server let the user choose which micropub endpoint
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tantek
voxpelli: that could be determined via the rel=me identity network
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aaronpk
it would mean the response of verifying the auth code would also contain the location of the micorpub endpoint
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aaronpk
which actually saves a round-trip
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voxpelli
tantek: not necessarily, micropub could be used for multi-author blogs that don't necessarily tie in to a rel-me network I think?
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tantek
so your site would just rel=me link up with all the other places you like to post
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tantek
and then they could have their own endpoints at their own URLs
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tantek
micropub for a multi-author blog has yet to be figured out AFAIK :)
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tantek
so that's a bigger (and different problem)
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KevinMarks_
i think silo.pub manages it
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voxpelli
I guess rel-me could be a way to suggest sites that a user could may want to edit, but I think the user should be able to provide one itself as well
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kylewm
lol at the strained wheat/chaff metaphor on https://granary-demo.appspot.com/
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aaronpk
okay i have an idea for this
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KevinMarks_
rel="me" to multiple authors is a problem
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kylewm
tantek: I have a fork of the known micropub plugin that does multiauthor
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KevinMarks_
remembers the "Chris is Tara" problem
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aaronpk
not sure it helps with multi-author blog, but does help with one ID posting to multiple endpoints, similar to signing in to tweetdeck with one account and having the ability to post to multiple
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tantek
right, that's more interesting to solve IMO
#
tantek
aaronpk - is there a name for that feature? multiaccount? or something?
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tantek
(that feature of Tweetdeck)
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tantek
what is Tweetdeck?
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Loqi
Tweetdeck is an application for managing multiple Twitter accounts https://indiewebcamp.com/Tweetdeck
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aaronpk
checks what tweetdeck calls it in the UI
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ben_thatmustbeme
has been thinking about this problem with micropub chaining
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ben_thatmustbeme
i need to get back to that code actually
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aaronpk
there's a column called "Accounts"
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ben_thatmustbeme
specifically i was trying to figure how it would work if you wanted to post "ONLY" to the chained destination
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aaronpk
haha tweetdeck oauth is so broken
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tantek
rhiaro: you getting psyched for IWC Edi?
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Loqi
hehe
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tantek
any personal SWAT0 goals? :)
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rhiaro
s/psyched/stressed
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aaronpk
"add an account" -> oauth screen -> click cancel -> "Error! Please return to your TweetDeck client and try again."
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aaronpk
but I am *in* the tweetdeck client and now stuck
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voxpelli
if one could just verify that a token gives access to a mircopub endpoint then it would be fairly easy to add new sites, one wouldn't have to do the oauth dance more than the first time
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voxpelli
so something similar to https://dev.twitter.com/rest/reference/get/account/verify_credentials, but as part of micropub – a simple ping that just asks whether one is welcome or not
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aaronpk
imagine when you request an access token, the token endpoint also returned the micropub endpoint to use
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voxpelli
aaronpk: why would the token endpoint have to care about what endpoint one would use?
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aaronpk
i'm making a ui mockup, one sec
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voxpelli
aaronpk: how would it find out what were available? currently the indieauth endpoint has no knowledge about any of that I think?
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aaronpk
you could publish multiple micropub endpoints
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aaronpk
and then the auth server would just look there
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voxpelli
also – it would be nice to be able to identify and post to a place without advertising that fact publicly
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aaronpk
also has built-in fallback for the existing method which would just use the first one
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aaronpk
if you build your own auth server you could do it all internally without exposing anything
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aaronpk
imagine that auth screen is not indieauth.com, but a page on your own site. you'd control what goes into the list
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tantek
that's a good way to encourage experimentation in this space
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voxpelli
I'm thinking that it would be enough to auth once with the client and then use that one auth to communicate with lots of micropub endpoints?
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aaronpk
i'm thinking the only change needed to support this is having the token response include a micropub endpoint
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voxpelli
I'm trying a different approach and just added a /verify resource to my micropub endpoint: https://github.com/voxpelli/node-micropub-express/commit/fb7044cb75bd681530fa0214949d0689cdbabe65
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aaronpk
a token verification endpoint is fine too, probably worth adding that to the spec
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aaronpk
i'm actually in the middle of a discussion about this with the oauth mailing list right now
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voxpelli
when it comes to UI I'm thinking something like: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/304233/micropub-client.png
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voxpelli
there can probably be many ways one can populate the site column in – more auomated ones, more manual ones or a combination of the two
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aaronpk
for a client? that makes sense
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aaronpk
that looks similar to how tweetdeck does it too
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aaronpk
that doesn't even require a change to the micropub/indieauth spec though
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aaronpk
that's just a client doing its own cookie login and associating multiple IDs with it
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voxpelli
aaronpk: it does require clients to support multiple sites for one identity, but nothing in the spec stops that from happening currently, it's just that a /verify resource could make for a better experience
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aaronpk
voxpelli: no it doesn't at all
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aaronpk
it just requires clients have their own concept of identity, and tying multiple indieauth identities to it
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aaronpk
you can go do this without any change to indieauth right now
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voxpelli
sure, but the specs doesn't require you to couple the indieauth identity with the micropub endpoints currently either I think? so why do that just so you can create another grouped identity rather than reusing an existing identity?
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aaronpk
i guess it's sort of implied that they're tied together right now
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voxpelli
in my Editorial.app workflow, the only client I've built so far, I separated the authentication from the choosing of publishing target – worked well there (even if the flows are yet a bit rough due to a tough dev environment)
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voxpelli
I guess I will try to find time to experiment with some other clients to try out the flows better
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kodfabrik.se
edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+505) "Added brainstorming around a token verification endpoint"
(view diff)
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voxpelli
aaronpk: perhaps you want to add some thoughts there regarding the oauth mailing list discussions
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aaronpk
voxpelli: out of curiosity, why did you make a separate endpoint for that, instead of just responding to an empty GET request at the micropub endpoint?
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bret
empty request is what the wiki says to do right now?
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voxpelli
aaronpk: since I felt it was about two different operations + took inspiration from Twitter
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aaronpk
oh does it? couldn't find that just now
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bret
aaronpk: i though i read that yesterday
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aaronpk
sounds familiar
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bret
im not to opinionated about it
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aaronpk
the advantage of using hte same endpoint is you don't need to figure out where the other one is
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bret
the advantage to a separate endpoint is less endpoint logic (in the case of twitter, theres only one twitter), but I think in this case maybe the same endpoint argument has a big advantage
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voxpelli
Mine is a subresource, but both works for me – a bit less explicit to have it on the same – error codes can then mean either lack of implementation or lack of access
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aaronpk
hm yeah, would need to define an explicit error response if the token is invalid
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voxpelli
I guess many just check for 2xx and considers everything else a failure :P
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aaronpk
everything else is a failure, just might be a failure for different reasons
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aaronpk
which is usually only useful in debugging
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Loqi
[mention] Tino Kremer posted '21 days with Known 6 min read It has been 21 days since I cr...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (http://stream.tinokremer.nl/2015/21-days-with-known)
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tantek
ooh that should be interesting
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aaronpk
I really like this idea of selecting the micropub endpoint during login, but don't have a reason to use that myself yet
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tantek
makes sense
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GWG
aaronpk: Did you look at the /Micropub page? I tried to refine the page without changing the meaning
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aaronpk
actually I wonder if that would help clients even for the single endpoint use case
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aaronpk
i've heard some people complain about parsing the html twice looking for the token endpoint and then the micropub endpoint
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tantek
really? sigh.
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tantek
needs to update/generalize his link/rel header/html parsing PHP lib
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tantek
it's so easy
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aaronpk
there are two complaints. one is parsing the HTML, the other is doing it twice
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tantek
hahaha
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KevinMarks_
also, if you find multiple endpoints you can give multiple syndicate options?
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aaronpk
KevinMarks_: the idea is to remove the burden of that from cilents
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tantek
anyone complaining about parsing is likely not a selfdogfooding publisher themselves :P
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aaronpk
tantek: i just use the microformats parser since it does rel value parsing
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tantek
true - I was offering up the simple(r) minimal PHP lib if they just wanted to quickly get those rels
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tantek
and include them from the link headers
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tantek
which the uf parser doesn't do
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KevinMarks_
another 'blame the web for your biz side crufting your site' piece http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/20/9002721/the-mobile-web-sucks
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tantek
HTTP LINK headers
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tantek
That web thing is too darn flexible.
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aaronpk
is thinking about asking this as a question to the oauth mailing list
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KevinMarks_
“Now, I happen to work a media company, and I happen to run a website that can be bloated and slow.”
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aaronpk
since they sidestep the whole endpoint discovery in the spec
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tantek
of course they do
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aaronpk
"In addition, this specification leaves a few required components
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tantek
because that's where silos insert their proprietariness and ToS for getting an app key etc.
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aaronpk
partially or fully undefined (e.g., client registration,
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aaronpk
authorization server capabilities, endpoint discovery)"
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aaronpk
"This framework was designed with the clear expectation that future
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aaronpk
work will define prescriptive profiles and extensions necessary to
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aaronpk
achieve full web-scale interoperability."
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tantek
exactly:leaves undefined - for the silos to insert propreitary/bizdevy crap
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tantek
s/crap/carp
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: exactly:leaves undefined - for the silos to insert propreitary/bizdevy carp
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tantek
going to start saying "carp" to indicate where fishy things may be going on
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tantek
and more language-sensitive friendly than "crap"
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tantek
and not sure a smiling emoji would make it any better
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@phildini
RT @kevinmarks: “there’s no realistic hope that websites will actually improve from here.” @felixsalmon misses the #indieweb of hope http:/…
(twitter.com/_/status/623204509238624256)
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@kylewmahan
The hope of the #indieweb is alive in Portland, hope is alive in Portland https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/622845598761259008
(twitter.com/_/status/623206487930769408)
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@kevinmarks
RT @kylewmahan: The hope of the #indieweb is alive in Portland, hope is alive in Portland https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/622845598761259008
(twitter.com/_/status/623207214694531072)
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bret
has anyone uploaded native video to twitter via the API?
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bret
their docs are horrible
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bret
and show how to do a multipart *by hand*
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fran.io
edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+72) "/* Creators */ Added fran.io/Francesco, updated counters"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
bret: wow i hadn't looked yet
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kylewm
twitter's way of doing multipart with oauth1 is awkward iirc, thankfully the python oauthlib supported it directly
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bret
kylewm: does it work with video?
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aaronpk
it occurred to me that choosing the micropub endpoint at the auth server only solves half the problem, because in that case all of the micropub endpoint options would need to share a token endpoint still
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kylewm
bret: I have not tried video yet
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@actionhero
Need to start having these conversations. The Web We Need to Give Students by @audreywatters@Medium https://medium.com/bright/the-web-we-need-to-give-students-311d97713713 #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/623221571159769089)
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@craigmod
Calendars and timezones are so badly handled I now do all my personal scheduling in a … text file.
(twitter.com/_/status/623223462220406784)
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: YES! I've been doing that since 2008 :)
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tantek
(or earlier - I have to double check)
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tantek
I think before that I was using my own HyperCard stack
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snarfed
hypercard wow
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@AKMA
@kylewmahan @kevinmarks And just like that, the monster earthquake swallows up the last bastion of web optimism
(twitter.com/_/status/623211996238991360)
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aaronpk
google calendar handles it reasonably well, but it's the only thing i've found that does
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aaronpk
you have to be proactive about adding things in the correct timezones and such tho
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tantek
except Google Calendar pretends to be Google Spider Searchbot when it is requesting .ics files :P
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tantek
which is why it's blocked from H2VX
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aaronpk
oh right haha
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tantek
just goes to show Google is likely just using ONE GIANT CACHE ;)
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tantek
(to index them all?)
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kylewm
I don't know what Hypercard is except that someone says "whoa, Hypercard" every time it is mentioned
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KartikPrabhu
One cache to index them all, One bot to find them // One spider to search them all, and in the silo bind them
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tantek
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 107 karma
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tantek
attempts a slight mod
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bear
KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu has 108 karma
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tantek
One bot to retrieve them all, one spider to find them, one cache to index them all, and in the silo bind them.
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tantek
gets pedantic about what the bot vs the spider do ;)
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: yeah I was being cavalier about thatr
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tantek
also it just sounds creepier for the spider to find you
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KartikPrabhu
tantek++ for a semantically correct poem!
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Loqi
tantek has 222 karma
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tantek
though Google has multiple silos right?
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KartikPrabhu
but they are all in Mordor :P
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tantek
right, ok plural silos
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@micahgodbolt
The definition of irony. @verge article about how the mobile web sucks: 4.3mb 271 requests 14/45sec w/ 3g on mobile https://twitter.com/micahgodbolt/status/623180750142058496/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/623180750142058496)
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tantek
^^^ so good
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aaronpk
maybe the mobile web sucks when you build terrible websites
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aaronpk
maybe also native apps suck if you build terrible apps
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aaronpk
hm i'm sensing a theme here
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aaronpk
software is hard
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: that article has gotten that back-reaction from web designers on Twitter
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tantek
content is made harder when you make it dependent on software, or only viewable with custom downloaded software. per js;dr
#
tantek
271 requests?!?
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loqi.me
created /real (+278) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
man that verge loading timeline extends into 45s!
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aaronpk
wow. 25s for me and i'm on a computer on pretty good wifi.
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tantek.com
edited /real (+21) "span, dfn"
(view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
5s! on a wired connection... ridiculous
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KartikPrabhu
my homepage is 0.48s 10 times faster. my article with custom post style and a video embed is still 1.12s... Verge is not doing this right at all
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+430) "/* Token Verification Endpoint */"
(view diff)
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tantek
I feel like that came up in discussion before
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tantek
snarfed, note that our /code-of-conduct has been by definition open since the beginning as CC0.
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snarfed
sure! the interesting part seemed like the project/community, not the license
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snarfed
but i haven't dug into it much
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tantek
snarfed, ironically, that URL doesn't mention "license" at all.
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+2636) "add brainstorming on multiple micropub endpoints"
(view diff)
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snarfed
i expect they also think the project/community is more important than the license :P
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tantek
snarfed, I'm not sure I care much for a community only around a code-of-conduct (in theory) rather than being developed in practice for a specific community. Feels a bit abstracty/astronomy to me.
#
tantek
both are important obv
#
tantek
but the absence of a license (when so many - nearly all - others have a license, especially the ones they cite, is odd)
#
aaronpk
but it's "open"! :P
#
tantek
s/, is odd)/), is odd
#
Loqi
tantek meant to say: but the absence of a license (when so many - nearly all - others have a license, especially the ones they cite), is odd
#
tantek
aaronpk, lol. it's open because I say it's "Open"!
#
tantek
one would think that an *open source* code of conduct would remember to put the license on there up front. just sayin.
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tantek
no "copyright" nor rel=license either (yes I checked the source)
#
tantek
it's likely just incomplete, a work in progress, as the end of the document has an obviously * bulleted list that's collapsed into a single paragraph (like someone forgot to do the markdown -> HTML conversion on that part)
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aaronpk
tantek: it is from the "TODO" group after all
#
tantek
aaronpk - wow, that's deep.
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kylewm
it's great that github is adopting a CoC for their open source projects
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tantek
is that related to the one snarfed mentioned?
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kylewm
yeah, they are working on it and have adopted it for their projects
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kylewm
they=github
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tantek
github is working on the TODO thing?
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kylewm
that's how i read that post
#
kylewm
"We are proud to be working with the TODO Group on the Open Code of Conduct'
#
tantek
wow I missed that - github blog?
#
kylewm
oh, yes it's on the github blog, looks visually similar to any github file though
#
tantek
did they announce on twitter or something
#
tantek
might have to make a minor correction about "the"
#
tantek
since any of the openly licensed codes of conduct are *an* "open code of conduct"
#
kylewm
yeah, that's a good point
#
kylewm
snarfed: GWG: singpolyma's comment parsing is getting worse rather than better with semantic-linkbacks :( https://singpolyma.net/actionstream/wow-facebook-ads-show-a/
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tantek
I just got an email that broke a URL at 59 characters
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snarfed
kylewm: ugh
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tantek
so those of you who depend on slugs for uniquely identifying a post, and 404 if the slug is wrong, 59 characters is the most you may get (including the http... part)
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aaronpk
Google+ Photos will be shut down August 1. It will be replaced by Google Photos.
#
aaronpk
also hilarious autogenerated slug which removed the "+" making the slug very misleading
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tantek
ok so that makes no sense
#
tantek
I don't even know how to document that
#
tantek
anyone else is welcome to take a crack at sensibly capturing that on /Google /Google+ and of course /site-deaths
#
KevinMarks
chromecast support is a bit of a gap
#
tantek
braindump a bit of a checkin UI brainstorm
#
tantek
as in, what a simple checkin micropub client could work / look like
#
tantek
the checkin UI is as easy as dropping a pin on a map.
#
tantek
that checks you in, and then you can add any details you want asynchronously, choice of venue (auto-suggested), snap pin to venue, who you're with, etc.
#
tantek
point being, you don't have to wait for a list of venues to load, but when they have asynchronously loaded (i.e. after your checkin), you can then tap one to pick it for your checkin and snap the pin to the venue
#
tantek
the more important point is the simplest / fastest possible checkin UI so you can checkin and move on
#
tantek
and when you have another moment you can *optionally* confirm suggested venue etc.
#
tantek
might even just start with showing a map with the blue dot, and when they load, highlighted polygons for the nearby venues so you could tap them to check into them, or long press to get their info in a hover bubble
#
tantek
on any polygon with multiple venues, it shows a " > " menu icon on it
#
tantek
and tapping it does the usual screenswipe left to reveal a checkie style menu of what's at that polygon
#
tantek
tap again to pick one and you're done
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tantek
that's the minimal version
#
tantek
for extra credit, tapping would do an auto-smart 3D zoom (including perspective shift as necessary) and show sub polygons lit up to tap on
#
aaronpk
finally
#
aaronpk
they show the lat/lng now! I used to have to install a google maps extension that added a right-click menu to show the lat/lng of a location
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tantek
yeah no idea why they were so stingy with that in the UI before (even with URL hacking etc.)
#
KevinMarks
it was always in the url after all
#
KevinMarks
they now make nicer urls too
#
aaronpk
sometimes it was buried like 6 lat/lngs deep tho
#
aaronpk
depending on what you were doing before
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aaronpk
ooh zoom levels are floating point now because vector maps
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tantek
what is Google Maps?
#
tantek
KevinMarks, worth documenting ? ^^^
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aaronpk
ironically I was about to build that "drop a pin on the map and find the lat/lng" feature into Atlas
#
KevinMarks
the way it shows places as you zoom is quite subtle now too
#
KevinMarks
boo, the foo camp tiles have gone from the satellite
#
tantek
just wait til they deploy time-indexed tiles with a slider
#
KevinMarks
I've been waiting for that since I shipped it in 1994
#
KevinMarks
reading scrollback
#
GWG
kylewm, I need more data
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KevinMarks
google uses their crawl cache because if you had most of the active web backed up in RAM, you would too
#
tantek
speaking of which KevinMarks, I was just tweaking my mod of that
#
tantek
I think this is even more ominous sounding:
#
tantek
One spider to crawl them all, one bot to retrieve them, one cache to index them all, and in the silos bind them.
#
KevinMarks
is the scansion right?
#
KevinMarks
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them
#
tantek
see here I was worrying first more about semantics, then second more about temporal order of operations
#
tantek
pretty close!
#
aaronpk
tantek: KevinMarks: you mean like this? http://aaronparecki.com/uploads/street-view.mov.gif
#
KevinMarks
One spider crawls them all, one bot to find them, one cache to index all, and in the silos bind them.
#
KevinMarks
mine were satellite sequences
#
tantek
I think the keeping of the "to"s is mor important
#
tantek
is it a subtweet if I don't deliberately reference Google?
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aaronpk
haha yes i believe that is actually the definition of subtweet
#
tantek
what is a subtweet?
#
GWG
kylewm, I need to know what he is running.
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@t
One spider to crawl them all, One bot to retrieve them, One cache to index them all, and in the silos bind them. (ttk.me t4cG1)
(twitter.com/_/status/623279978680029184)
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KevinMarks
some animations here: http://www.planetaryvisions.com/Library.php?pid=57 (needs safari as in Quicktime)
#
GWG
At least once a month, someone tries to install the WordPress repository and the Github version of my plugins and I get a support complaint
#
GWG
I have been meaning to put in an error handler for it.
#
GWG
The Semantic Linkbacks issue may be something misconfigured. I need to know more details
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