#indiewebcamp 2016-06-02

2016-06-02 UTC
tantek joined the channel
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tantek
GWG, other WordPress folks, how common is class="entry-date" in WP themes, and is it consistently used for the published date?
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tantek
wonders where he should check for examples
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tantek
checks ma.tt
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tantek
yup <time class="entry-date" datetime="2016-05-27T07:43:02+00:00">
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aaronpk
maybe look specifically for class="entry-date" on a time attribute?
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aaronpk
that seems like it would be high quality, not a lot of false positives
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tantek
that's a good narrowing
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[kevinmarks]
Interesting
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tantek
I figure WordPress is a good dataset for "hentry" compat
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tantek
they may be the biggest source of "hentry" on the web now
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[kevinmarks]
This fits with the empirical backcompat expansion I was experimenting with for the recipes
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tantek
KevinMarks: can you please document that in microformats.org/wiki/h-recipe-feedback ?
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tantek
citations of the examples you found, plus a proposal for what classes/markup to interpret as what properties?
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tantek
do they have class="hrecipe" as a root at least?
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tantek
or is this a completely different cross-compat? or proprietary extraction?
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tantek
backcompat means backwards compatible with a previous standard and how it was adopted in the market
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[kevinmarks]
No, it was a proprietary extraction of a site that was threatened with closure
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tantek
ah ok. still worth capturing, perhaps as "extraction"
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tantek
hmm it looks like phpmf2 is not handling rel=bookmark per h-entry backcompat parsing
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tantek
looks like this earlier theme on klaustoon has class="post-date" and then visible Month, D, YYYY
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tantek
and <h1 class="post-title"> instead of entry-title
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tantek
and <div class="post-content"> instead of entry-content
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gRegorLove
Don't think it's in a release yet
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tantek
ok great
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tantek
wow https://en.blog.wordpress.com/2016/05/20/field-notes-an-event-apart-boston-2016/ does not even have hentry - wonder how they did that since I *thought* hentry was added by WP Core. GWG?
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gRegorLove
aaronpk: Could we get the test suite and other PRs merged for php-mf2 + release, or does barnaby usually do releases?
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gRegorLove
Actually, just realized you're probably super busy with all the summit stuff, so no worries if not.
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gRegorLove
hentry is in the WordPress default themes like Twenty Sixteen, etc, AFAIK
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gRegorLove
I don't think core injects any HTML/attributes, unless it's changed quite a bit recently
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aaronpk
Barnaby does the releases
snarfed, snarfed1, snarfed2, KevinMarks2, ttepasse, KevinMarks, cleverdevil and tantek joined the channel
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rrix
I am at the homebrews club today! \o/
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notes.whatthefuck.computer
edited /note (+266) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ I publish notes"
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notes.whatthefuck.computer
edited /rsvp (+256) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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notes.whatthefuck.computer
edited /rsvp (+68) "/* Ryan Rix */ linkify"
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notes.whatthefuck.computer
edited /photo (+210) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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notes.whatthefuck.computer
edited /like (+227) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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GWG
!tell tantek Very in a theme. It got copied a lot
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Loqi
GWG: [chrisaldrich] left you a message 1 hour, 51 minutes ago: While on vacation, I ran across https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-crosspost/ which you might(?) find interesting/useful for code relating to editing/updating posts?? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-01/line/1464824571939
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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notes.whatthefuck.computer
edited /checkin (+400) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: Welcome to Homebrew Website Club - this month we have 3 meetings
(twitter.com/_/status/738182852861435904)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: Webmention is now a Candidate Recommendation for w3c which is kind of a big deal
(twitter.com/_/status/738182967349088256)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: we incubated and developed webmention in the indieweb community and brought it over to the SocialWG at w3c
(twitter.com/_/status/738183152561197056)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: we have 27 implementations of webmention already and mow w3c is calling for more: https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/
(twitter.com/_/status/738183295641477120)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: if you have a webmention implementation, you can test it at https://webmention.rocks/ - both sending and receiving
(twitter.com/_/status/738183433831223296)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: If you remeber PingBack, there was no test suite for that, so webmention is already better
(twitter.com/_/status/738183598637998080)
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notes.whatthefuck.computer
edited /jam (+287) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: the other thing that webmention specifies is that you can update and delete comments and mentions too
(twitter.com/_/status/738183722709700608)
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notes.whatthefuck.computer
edited /jam (+153) "/* Ryan Rix */"
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: last week we added a new Homebrew Website Club in Nürnberg - adding to LA, DC, Göteborg, Portland and Brighton
(twitter.com/_/status/738184090734759938)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: Nürnberg has an amazing photographer @iwontsignuphere who took photos that look so professional
(twitter.com/_/status/738184900264767488)
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notes.whatthefuck.computer
edited /video (+425) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: and @iwontsignuphere also has a Nimslo camera that means she can make twitchgifs of people too
(twitter.com/_/status/738185841693097984)
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@IMJACKTG
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Nürnberg has an amazing photographer @iwontsignuphere who took photos that look so professional
(twitter.com/_/status/738185925692391424)
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@IMJACKTG
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: and @iwontsignuphere also has a Nimslo camera that means she can make twitchgifs of people too
(twitter.com/_/status/738185930473869312)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: Indiewebcamp Summit this weekend has it's own site at http://2016.indieweb.org/ - it's $5 to attend or free if you indie RSVP
(twitter.com/_/status/738186190264930304)
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notes.whatthefuck.computer
edited /read (+442) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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notes.whatthefuck.computer
edited /read (+194) "/* Ryan Rix */"
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: apparently $5 is just enough to encourage people to code up RSVP support - look at Emma, Cassie, Kevin, Kyle,
(twitter.com/_/status/738186712568979460)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: We may need a new RSVP value to mean 'remote attending Yes' -I'm worried I'm using a food slot
(twitter.com/_/status/738186913656524801)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: we also have a travel assistance fund for under-represented people to come http://2016.indieweb.org/#travel-assistance
(twitter.com/_/status/738187557540859904)
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@KitSeeborg
I've felt that way. RT @kevinmarks #indieweb We may need a new RSVP value to mean 'remote attending Yes' -I'm worried I'm using a food slot
(twitter.com/_/status/738187712709038081)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: you used to RSVP by adding yourself to the wiki page. Now it's a projects list if you want to say more http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Guest_List
(twitter.com/_/status/738187922227204096)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: there are 3 events happening in a row http://indiewebcamp.com/events Indiewebcamp, W3C Social Web and decentralisedweb
(twitter.com/_/status/738188541092593664)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: part of decentralised Web is thinking about replacements for DNS and http
(twitter.com/_/status/738188662500917249)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: we assume domain names are a given; they are thinking about layers below what we're worrying about
(twitter.com/_/status/738188812183044096)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: if they give us a new way to look up a site, we can still decide how to process it and connect it
(twitter.com/_/status/738188925685145600)
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@linux_everyday
https://indieauth.com - Sign in with your domain name (using the rel-me-auth http://microformats.org/wiki/relmeauth protocol. #linux_everyday
(twitter.com/_/status/738189589362446336)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: my hope with decentralised web is to make the composable versus substitable distinction to map ideas to us
(twitter.com/_/status/738189696317161472)
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@handsonl1fe
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we assume domain names are a given; they are thinking about layers below what we're worrying about
(twitter.com/_/status/738189823891148801)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: html is the one piece that is going to be very hard to displace
(twitter.com/_/status/738189999024312321)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: content hashing and URLs are in tension, as what URLs point to are mutable.
(twitter.com/_/status/738190625175179265)
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KartikPrabhu
what is content hashing?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "content hashing" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Mk
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: anyone want to demonstrate anything they got working since the last time you were here
(twitter.com/_/status/738190856952381440)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @jfrndz: my site is https://jfrndz.com/ - I've been playing with a framework called Perfect
(twitter.com/_/status/738191213032026112)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @jfrndz: Perfect lets you write server-side apps in Swift - I built an IndieAuth handler in it to sign into my site
(twitter.com/_/status/738191439847395328)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @jfrndz: I my extend this to do private posting; RSVPing to the summit made me want to do private RSVPs
(twitter.com/_/status/738191645343154177)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @cw: my site is at http://massless.org/ - I haven't touched it for a while. What's a good starter project?
(twitter.com/_/status/738192241873801216)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @jfrndz: setting up indieauth with rel=me links is a good first thing to do
(twitter.com/_/status/738192352788025344)
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notes.whatthefuck.computer
edited /User:Notes.whatthefuck.computer (+1665) "/* Arcology */ Add a documentation block about how to *use* arcology"
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: if you do that you can log into the wiki
(twitter.com/_/status/738197553787834368)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: today I took the strikethrough style off the link to my http://upcoming.org profile
(twitter.com/_/status/738197700785672192)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: in the last 24 hours @andybaio the creator of upcoming restored all the archives at the original permalinks
(twitter.com/_/status/738197840002945024)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: this is a huge feat that andy did - this is an indie site that was built from the ground up to preserve web data
(twitter.com/_/status/738198759008538624)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: as the community grows, we'll build more community sites like this - upcoming is an example
(twitter.com/_/status/738199384714809346)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @kevinmarks: I wanted to show off https://ben.thatmustbe.me/mobilepub/ which is Ben's posting site for micropub that works offline
(twitter.com/_/status/738199544651997186)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: andy's twitter is @waxpancake and @upcomingorg is the sites
(twitter.com/_/status/738199840635670529)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: @andybaio says: For every random jerk trashing you online, there are thousands of people that quietly love you.
(twitter.com/_/status/738200019459788800)
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@TempieLanehart
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: @andybaio says: For every random jerk trashing you online, there are thousands of people that quietly love you.
(twitter.com/_/status/738200166805671936)
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@AdamHertz
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: @andybaio says: For every random jerk trashing you online, there are thousands of people that quietly love you.
(twitter.com/_/status/738200578942066688)
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@raamdev
RT @ChrisAldrich Congrats @raamdev for supporting microformats2 & better #IndieWeb comments in @WordPress Independent Publisher theme https://github.com/raamdev/independent-publisher
(twitter.com/_/status/738202892864098304)
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Loqi
[indienews] New post: "Homebrew Website Club 2016-06-01" http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-06-01.html
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@kevinmarks
Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club San Francisco http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-06-01.html #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/738206556760637440)
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@rrrrrrrix
RT @kevinmarks Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club San Francisco http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-06-01.html #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/738209422275547136)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "@snarfed, no worries; I know you're certainly doing better/more important work in other quarters than this. Besides, I don't just hold my breath waiting" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/snarfed-no-worries-i-know-youre-certainly-doing-bettermore-important
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Retweeted this tweet: Kevin Marks on Twitter: &#8220;Notes from tonight&#8217;s Homebrew Website Club San Francisco https://t.co/qZVgWQCv85 #indieweb&#8221;" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/14098-2/
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Retweeted this tweet: Kevin Marks on Twitter: &#8220;Notes from tonight&#8217;s Homebrew Website Club San Francisco https://t.co/qZVgWQCv85 #indieweb&#8221;" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/14098-2/
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rrix
I've got to start working through my ideas for a MicroPub server that creates static-site pages, like markdown or Org-mode entries.
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rrix
I have been posting photos on to Instagram lately and it would be nice to backfeed them in to Arcology so that the files are properly archives.
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rrix
Right now, if my Instagram account is closed, I lose a tonne of crappy phonephotos of the models I've been making
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colintedford.com
edited /js;dr (+122) "/* Related Articles */ Everyone has JavaScript, right?"
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miklb
rrix I'm using voxpelli's micropub server that has some glue to publish to GitHub pages Jekyll. I've hooked it up to OYG
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@TechLifeWeb
RT @kevinmarks Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club San Francisco http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-06-01.html #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/738217777488486400)
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rrix
Ohhhh
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rrix
oh oh, node-micropub-express
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rrix
yeah, this looks good
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rrix
I'm not sure how I forgot about this.
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rrix
Gluing this to org-mode is going to be p easy
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rrix
ah, wait that is html to org, lol. I guess I can write a micropub to org pretty easily though
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@ChrisAldrich
Yes: Yes: I'm going to remote attend IndieWebCamp Summit 2016, though I desperately wish I could be there in… http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/yes-yes-im-going-to-remote-attend-indiewebcamp-summit-2016
(twitter.com/_/status/738242998392094720)
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boffosocko.com
edited /2016/Guest_List (+657) "/* Remote Participants */ Chris Aldrich RSVP"
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Loqi
cweiske: tantek left you a message 12 hours, 32 minutes ago: if you really feel like stress-testing Loqi, perhaps consider doing so in #indiechat (offtopic chatter :) ) since that doesn't really have anything to do with indiewebcamp per se - thanks! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-01/line/1464804183818
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Loqi
[indieweb] "@TechLifeWeb Not sure if you'd run across it yet, but are you attending #IndieWeb Camp in LA this year? http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/LA" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/techlifeweb-not-sure-if-youd-run-across-it-yet-but
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@ChrisAldrich
@TechLifeWeb Not sure if you'd run across it yet, but are you attending #IndieWeb Camp in LA this year? http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/LA
(twitter.com/_/status/738262469303361536)
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@webrocker
wordpress #indieweb tinkerers, can I turn off "get pingback/trackback notification" and still get webmentions or are these connected?
(twitter.com/_/status/738265112595865600)
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@ForbiddenMatrix
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: we have 27 implementations of webmention already and mow w3c is calling for more: https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/
(twitter.com/_/status/738265957588566017)
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@ForbiddenMatrix
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you have a webmention implementation, you can test it at https://webmention.rocks/ - both sending and receiving
(twitter.com/_/status/738266002316611584)
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@ForbiddenMatrix
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Indiewebcamp Summit this weekend has it's own site at http://2016.indieweb.org/ - it's $5 to attend or free if you indie RSVP
(twitter.com/_/status/738266208332480513)
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@ForbiddenMatrix
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: there are 3 events happening in a row http://indiewebcamp.com/events Indiewebcamp, W3C Social Web and decentralisedweb
(twitter.com/_/status/738266713288900608)
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@benwerd
If you want to handroll a website but don't want to mess with servers, HyperDev sounds promising. http://joelonsoftware.com/items/2016/05/30.html #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/738266791021936640)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "If you want to handroll a website but don't want to mess with servers, HyperDev sounds promising. http://joelonsoftware.com/items/2016/05/30.html #indieweb" by Ben Werdmüller http://werd.io/2016/if-you-want-to-handroll-a-website-but-dont-want
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@ForbiddenMatrix
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: in the last 24 hours @andybaio the creator of upcoming restored all the archives at the original permalinks
(twitter.com/_/status/738267167322345472)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "pfefferle on "[Plugin: IndieWeb] Might be helpful to add at least some description"" by pfefferle https://wordpress.org/support/topic/might-be-helpful-to-add-at-least-some-description#post-8476018
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pfefferle
!tell tantek there is a method in WP core that adds microformats(1) classes, but you don't have to use this method in your theme.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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pfefferle
!tell willnorris now it works like a charm!
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@pfefferle
@webrocker good question... I am not sure... The Webmention plugin uses the disable pingbacks on the post level...
(twitter.com/_/status/738274002012098560)
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@jkphl
@pfefferle Sag mal, wäre nicht der https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day was für dich? Könnte professionellen Beistand brauchen. ;) #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/738276042855579648)
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@IndieWebCampDE
Schon gehört? Am 22.6. gibt es einen #IndieWeb Hack Day in Nürnberg — ein Kompakt-IWC whd. der @openSUSE-Konferenz 👉 https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day
(twitter.com/_/status/738277250068418560)
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@IndieWebCampDE
Und zum Warmwerden nächste Woche wieder einen Homebrew Website Club ebendort 👉 http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-06-08-homebrew-website-club
(twitter.com/_/status/738278065382559744)
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Loqi
kylewm's t-shirt
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Loqi
Countdown set by kylewm on 5/31/16 at 11:41pm
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Loqi
TWiG
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Loqi
Countdown set by KevinMarks on 6/1/16 at 1:26pm
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kylewm
No dice on the shirts :'(
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Loqi
[indienews] New post: "SimplePie 1.4.1 released" https://unicyclic.com/mal/2016-06-02-SimplePie_141_released
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[kevinmarks]
Why did that 4 minute countdown just trigger 12 hours and 4 minutes later?
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Scott, I love the concept of your bookmarklets and how they work!! I particularly like the way that WP blockquotes the original and copies over" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/scott-i-love-the-concept-of-your-bookmarklets-and-how
arthurspooner and friedcell joined the channel
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Rich Embeds for silos like Twitter might actually be somewhat useful when using post kinds "like" and "repost" as the Twitter card would then display" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/rich-embeds-for-silos-like-twitter-might-actually-be-somewhat
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Embed for Tweets versus Blockquote (html/js) with Text? · Issue #10 · pfefferle/wordpress-indieweb-press-this https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-indieweb-press-this/issues/10
arthurspooner, mapkyca, KevinMarks, KevinMarks2, friedcell, nitot and webhat joined the channel
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@RikMende
Anyone at #HHconnect ever heard about #indieweb? If you're interested to talk about it (I'm just a participants… https://www.rmendes.net/2016/anyone-at-hhconnect-ever-heard-about-indieweb-if-youre-interested
(twitter.com/_/status/738307331260219393)
friedcell, j12t, martinBrown, nitot, Garbee, M-kegan, arthurspooner, Pierre-O, moredhel_ and mlncn joined the channel
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@dissolve333
Just keep making mobilepub nicer. I post much more now. #indieweb (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2016/6/2/10/)
(twitter.com/_/status/738351634783178752)
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GWG
Morning
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@scott_gruber
@ChrisAldrich @TechLifeWeb hope to represent LA in PDX as a first timer, and then meet up the Homebrew LA crew. @indiewebcamp
(twitter.com/_/status/738363041968852993)
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GWG
Thank you for not saying Good. My cab came at 4:30 to take me to the airport for my flight to Portland.
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GWG
I was sound asleep as they came 12 hours early.\
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cweiske
joys of 12 hour time standard
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Conditionally adding a Bridgy publish link based on a tag. Sweet #indieweb goodness!" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/14106-2/
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GWG
The guy asked me for my address and number of people three times. I do not blame myself.
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GWG
I just hope they come back.
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tantek
good morning #indiewebcamp!
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Loqi
tantek: GWG left you a message 13 hours, 11 minutes ago: Very in a theme. It got copied a lot http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-01/line/1464831262825
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Loqi
tantek: pfefferle left you a message 7 hours, 16 minutes ago: there is a method in WP core that adds microformats(1) classes, but you don't have to use this method in your theme. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-06-02/line/1464852546918
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GWG
tantek: Time grows short.
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tantek
GWG, with every second
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GWG
Between now and the Summit
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tantek
GWG lots to do!
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GWG
And pfefferle has popped up. Also a good thing.
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tantek
GWG, yes, a very good thing!
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GWG
tantek: I may be dead tired when I arrive, but I will be there with bells on(figurative ones)
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tantek
congrats to KevinMarks and snarfed for getting talks at the decentralized web summit! http://www.decentralizedweb.net/schedule/
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GWG
I was thinking of trying a WordPress session at the Summit. I know we attracted some people last year who were WordPress users
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@ediqoHQ
RT @hvdsomp Paywalls in #scholcomm make using web standards very hard. Could being webby give competitive edge for #openaccess? https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention/issues/42
(twitter.com/_/status/738385392580370432)
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david.shanske.com
edited /2016/Sessions (+207) "/* Session Ideas */"
(view diff)
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GWG
Any thoughts on that, anyone?
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petermolnar
there was a topic yesterday on fancy splash page vs. wiki and for generic indieweb, I don't think we need a one-page-thing; for WordPress, on the other side, this might be something very useful, considering the target audience of WP
#
petermolnar
and indiewebifying wordpress minisite
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petermolnar
maybe worth mentioning in that session
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GWG
petermolnar: Add to wiki?
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tantek
petermolnar definitely add that to GWG's session proposal that he just added
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petermolnar.eu
edited /2016/Sessions (+78) "/* WordPress */"
(view diff)
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GWG
My concern is having too much confusion about options in the WordPress space, despite options being a good thing.
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tantek
options are only a good thing when people are really asking for them
#
tantek
options up front are usually a way to confuse people
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tantek
better to pick what is *easiest* and most obvious defaults and provide those
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petermolnar
tantek providing the option for options is essential; picking the most common default is a must; but WordPress recently made choices where disabling features require plugins instead of a built-in option
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petermolnar
for example, I don't want embeds. When an upgrade introduces embeds, enable by default, sure, but keep the option to disable it, which WordPress hadn't done
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tantek
petermolnar: huh that's pretty odd
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petermolnar
let me find the usual argument for it
#
tantek
petermolnar: most importantly, the number of plugins to install and manage for making a WordPress site IndieWeb friendly needs to be greatly simplified
#
tantek
that's the problem of options I'm talking about
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petermolnar
problem of choices then, not options :)
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tantek
there needs to be a logical series of plugins for people to try and use, and each one needs to add significant user functionality that makes plugin seem "worth it"
#
tantek
that's the bigger problem to solve right now
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petermolnar
as for the indieweb plugins, I agree, we need to simplify that, with the least amount of plugins possible
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GWG
The problem comes with individuality.
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GWG
petermolnar and I both use WordPress, but our needs are different.
#
GWG
petermolnar has his own webmentions plugin.
#
petermolnar
there is also the unix approach: one plugin should do one thing, but do that right.
#
GWG
He records and posts his EXIF data on his pictures..
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petermolnar
GWG WordPress _always_ extracts EXIF if it's present
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tantek
no the unix approach is wrong for something so user-centric as WordPress
#
GWG
petermolnar: Most people don't display it
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GWG
I use Post Kinds, because I wrote it to fit my needs. Other people also use it
#
GWG
snarfed and petermolnar don't, which is fine. It doesn't suit their needs.
#
tantek
GWG, the very fact that you are referring to a "webmentions" plugin is part of the problem - that doesn't mean anything from a user-perspective. Does it send webmentions? receive them? display them? all the above? For what post types? response types? etc.
#
GWG
But, how do you tell a new person...use it or not?
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petermolnar
I believe my WordPress can be considered as a custom cms that is built on top of WordPress
#
GWG
tantek: I'm outlining that problem a bit at the moment.
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petermolnar
so that's the worst possible thing to show an indieweb newcomer WordPress user
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petermolnar
tantek the Unix approach is never wrong. Complicated it may seem sometimes, but every plugin will get bloated unless they focus on one thing only.
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ben_thatmustbeme
so lets rephrase the conversation as, what would the ideal plugin set be? can we unify the multiple plugins with a few settings for both of your use cases?
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tantek
petermolnar: that's a good point to make about your specific usage of WordPress - can you perhaps summarize your usage of WordPress like that near the top of your user page? https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Petermolnar.eu
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tantek
petermolnar: the fundamental problem with the unix approach is that it makes plumbing-centric assumptions (heck unix is all about the pipes and piping things)
#
tantek
whereas it is more important to have anything you install and manage be user-centric
#
tantek
feature-centric, not plumbing-centric
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GWG
Trying to balance individual preference and global preference is what brought us to this point.
#
GWG
My solution is to try to make the pieces more modular, so you could swap things out if you wanted, but maintain the same core.
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ben_thatmustbeme
trys to brainstorm a list of plugins that makes sense. PostKinds, okay, various indieweb types of posts. one for webmention send and receive, grouped under 'open commenting' or something, one for micropub along the lines of a 'posting apps support'
#
GWG
WordPress has the preference of removing user settings from Core, setting a sensible default, but allowing a plugin to act to disable/alter settings.
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: Post Kinds does it as post meta. miklb asked recently why it isn't implemented as a custom post type in WordPress. snarfed just marks up his posts inside the post editor.
#
GWG
I admit the whole thing confuses people.
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tantek
GWG, I think you underestimate how much most users just want to install and use
#
tantek
not fuss with customizing, adding markup inside posts etc.
#
tantek
they want the features to "just work"
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GWG
But I'm stumped as to how to write something that can be installed and used, but also can be customized or disabled easily.
#
tantek
so postpone customizing
#
tantek
and disabling should just be a matter of uninstalling
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GWG
I have two parallel efforts in that area.
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GWG
1. The decision to return functionality to the Indieweb plugin to achieve the Indiemark Identity Axes.
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GWG
Axis.
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GWG
And the Level 1 authentication.
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pfefferle
GWG tantek that's why I try to avoid settings pages for my plugins... but that confuses people too...
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tantek
pfefferle: minimizing prefs is important too
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GWG
pfefferle: But you can have the filters in place to make it easy for a third-party to add a setting as a plugin.
#
GWG
pfefferle: Do you have any thoughts on simplifying the confusion over the state of Indieweb in WordPress?
#
GWG
Webmentions are less useful without the Semantic Linkbacks code, for example, but most people don't realize that if they heard about webmentions and search the repository.
#
GWG
Is Post Kinds as I implemented it the ideal solution for different kinds of posts?
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pfefferle
not really... as petermolnar mentioned, I like to keep plugins simple and fit only one need... but that results in a lot of plugins
#
tantek
maybe we need two different sets of plugins
#
GWG
pfefferle: I tried to address that in the Indieweb plugin by making the plugin install page look like an 'extensions' page.
#
tantek
simple user-friendly plugins that actually add user-level features
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tantek
and then all the mini-modular plugins that "fit only one need"
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tantek
not sure how else to resolve this
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GWG
tantek: Neither are any of us.
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tantek
GWG, does that mean you agree with my proposal?
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pfefferle
perhaps it is possible to group the plugins by IndieWeb level
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petermolnar
there is also the compatibility issue: while my webmentions plugin is an all-in-1 for webmentions, it fails on theme compatibility due to the custom comment types
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tantek
pfefferle: yes, grouping by IndieMark levels would be a good start
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GWG
tantek: Yes, in essence.
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petermolnar
creating generic plugins for WP is a good idea, but it will go against the selfdogfooding: none of us will use it
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tantek
petermolnar: I think GWG is willing to selfdogfood them
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pfefferle
petermolnar that is another argument for simple and small plugins that allow a lot of customization...
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GWG
So, we've already started that by saying the Indieweb plugin is going to handle level one authentication.
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tantek
because he wants to help new/beginner users too and empathize with their experience
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pfefferle
I for example don't use micropub
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GWG
petermolnar: If they are written well, I think we can have our dogfood and eat it too.
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petermolnar
I remember that, where are we with the indieweb plugin + rel=me integration?
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petermolnar
is that working?
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tantek
pfefferle: sure, and Micropub is a big enough chunk of user-level functionality that it deserves its own plugin
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tantek
petermolnar is right, focus on the IndieWeb plugin making rel=me / IndieAuth easy
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petermolnar
but it (Micropub) should not depend on another plugin (Post Types)
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tantek
that is, using your site to sign into other places like the wiki
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petermolnar
we started doing that, I'm just not certain where we are
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petermolnar
oh wow, that was in January o.O
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tantek
petermolnar: getting the IndieWeb plugin done like that would be a good goal for IWS
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GWG
petermolnar: I'm back working on it
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GWG
I'm working on the SVG icon code that stalled me.
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GWG
I can show you a demo...
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GWG
I was adding the same functionality to Syndication Links concurrently.
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petermolnar
so, the indieweb plugin right now can add a widget, with proper rel=me markup, if the relevant fields in the user profile is filled in, but it lacks icons
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petermolnar
adding svg icons can easily interfere with the themes themselves, are you sure that is necessary?
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petermolnar
the plugin also acts as a repository for other indieweb plugins, but this sections needs a facelift: ordering the plugins by indiemark and by how essential they are, right?
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GWG
petermolnar: Back to Self Dogfood.
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GWG
petermolnar: It does need a facelift. It might mean removing the TGM Plugin Installer and going with a custom page.
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GWG
petermolnar: Without icons, it doesn't work for me. And most people won't want a plain list. I'm crafting the CSS to be extremely limited in scope. Only styling the icons, not anything else.
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Liked this tweet: Ben Roberts on Twitter: &#8220;Just keep making mobilepub nicer. I post much more now. #indieweb (https://t.co/wiewD8DhjE)&#8221;" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/14108-2/
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petermolnar
many themes have built-in social icons already, aren't they?
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tantek
but there is no WordPress standard for social icons right?
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tantek
so you can't depend on anything like that
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tantek
petermolnar: any such themes with social icons already, we should do pull requests to add rel=me
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tantek
so that they automatically get that functionality
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tantek
and can pass indiewebify.me
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petermolnar
very limited set is available baked in to WP
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GWG
petermolnar: I'm using an Automattic project
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tantek
hey KevinMarks do you have a Lightning Talk for the panel you're moderating at dweb summit?
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petermolnar
that's a nice project
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GWG
petermolnar: I have done testing with all the standard themes on my dev site, plus Sempress and it is working well.
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GWG
I haven't pushed the commit yet though. Because I am trying to do two repos simultaneously, because I don't want to lose functionality.
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GWG
So the Indieweb one has to be ready when I pull the switch on the same functionality in the Syndication Links one.
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2016/Leaders (+203) "/* Session Ideas */"
(view diff)
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GWG
But I may get that done this weekend.
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KevinMarks
I just logged in to post that
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petermolnar
I'm not amused by that
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petermolnar
it my result in "instant articles, medium version", let's hope it doesn't
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tantek
julien is pretty strong open web advocate, I expect he'll keep doing that inside Medium
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petermolnar
KevinMarks you have to enable it
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tantek
and Medium is still small enough for him to have an impact
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KevinMarks
right, but julien hasn't
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KevinMarks
also, why is the explantory text on https://medium.com/me/settings at 0.3 opacity? do their designers hate readers?
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snarfed1
wow that acquisition
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snarfed1
tantek, re dweb, i'm giving an indieweb lightning talk
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tantek
I saw!
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tantek
snarfed++
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Loqi
snarfed has 225 karma
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tantek
adding to /Events now
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KevinMarks
I was wondering if a 45min workshop on indieweb would make sense
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GWG
snarfed1: Congratulations to you.
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KevinMarks
as they have slots for those
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snarfed1
KevinMarks: sure!
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aaronpk
wait what
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GWG
aaronpk: What What?
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GWG
Which what?
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aaronpk
it's not april 1 yet
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aaronpk
superfeedr + medium
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snarfed
more and more indieweb people are joining medium
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petermolnar
define 'joining'
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aaronpk
makes me think i should have considered medium for my last career shift
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GWG
aaronpk: If you did, it would have microformats and webmentions by now
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snarfed
petermolnar: full time employees :P
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petermolnar
ah, ok :)
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[kylewm]
me, for example :stuck_out_tongue: I have not intended to be quiet about that, but I sort of have been
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snarfed
kylewm++ !
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Loqi
kylewm has 333 karma
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tantek
wait what kylewm you joined Medium?!?
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[kylewm]
tantek: I did! I was going to wait until tomorrow to tell yall
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KevinMarks
are you and ben working together?
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[kylewm]
also why does slack autocomplete “you” to cweis.ke
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[kylewm]
without the dot
[aaronpk] joined the channel
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[aaronpk]
ha his bio has "you" in it
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@craftycorvid
Looking forward to meeting up with @indiewebcamp folks tomorrow!
(twitter.com/_/status/738415604940582912)
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KevinMarks2
Gillmor Gang time
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GWG
Again?
#
KevinMarks2
It's early this week, Steve is going on a trip
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GWG
One day I will have to watch.
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Salt
hey, could someone take a look at my site and suggest why the author h-card isn't displaying? http://www.altsalt.net/blog/indieweb-summit-2016-rsvp/
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Loqi
IndieWeb Summit 2016 RSVP
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Salt
I keep doing web mentions and going lower on the rsvp list! :P
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aaronpk
Salt: the "p-author" class needs to go on the same element that "h-card" is on
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GWG
Salt: It is not your place on the RSVP list, it is that you are on it.
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Salt
aaronpk, thanks
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tantek.com
edited /Events (+325) "/* June */ indieweb related sessions at dweb summit"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
it's like saying "there is a property called 'author' and the value is this 'h-card' inside"
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Salt
yay, that worked, thanks
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Loqi
giggles
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Salt
hrm, the rsvp list still doesn't show my name/avatar!!!
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aaronpk
Oh shoot, I wonder if that's because of my caching
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aaronpk
XRay caches parsed results for some time
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aaronpk
(the page uses XRay for parsing RSVPs)
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Salt
gotcha
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Salt
well I have resubmitted since the h-card was fixed, so I will wait and hope it works :)
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aaronpk
Check https://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.altsalt.net%2Fblog%2Findieweb-summit-2016-rsvp%2F and see if it looks right there, then send the webmention again when it does
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Salt
thar we go
#
Salt
thanks aaronpk
#
Salt
I really need a new photo taken tbh... decided to not shave this summer after growing out the winter coat, that one is from last summer where things were a bit different...
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@BankLabs
RT @w3c This week: W3Cx, Javascript API, Webmention, Blockchain workshop, IoT, Jeff Jaffe CSAIL Alliance, TTML, Data Shari… http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3c-digest/2016AprJun/0008.html
(twitter.com/_/status/738422673894690816)
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tantek
kevinmarks have you proposed doing an IndieWeb workshop for day 2 of dweb yet? You totally should - for SESSION C or D: Lightning Talks and Workshops
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tantek
s/D:/D :
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: kevinmarks have you proposed doing an IndieWeb workshop for day 2 of dweb yet? You totally should - for SESSION C or D : Lightning Talks and Workshops
#
tantek
snarfed, perhaps you could help out at that too!
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tantek
I'll try to be there to help too
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tantek
and we can just encourage folks to show up and help each other out
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Salt
hmm, is there a list of proposed workshops?
#
Salt
I know the project I want to work on but could maybe turn it into a group activity
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[kevinmarks]
Yes I was thinking that. Will propose one
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tantek
hey Salt - for the IndieWeb Summit, check out and add to: https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Sessions#Session_Ideas
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tantek
Salt, have you signed into the wiki yet?
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Salt
tantek, nope...
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Liked this tweet: ChrisAldrich on Twitter: &#8220;@TechLifeWeb Not sure if you&#8217;d run across it yet, but are you attending #IndieWeb Camp in LA this year? https://t.co/BFLI8rU2Mr&#8220;" by Scott Kingery http://techlifeweb.com/14110-2/
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tantek
Kevinmarks++ definitely propose it as a 45 min workshop. Perhaps even feel free to do to two: slot C: Getting on the IndieWeb (45 min to walk people through https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started )
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Loqi
Kevinmarks has 220 karma
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tantek
and slot D : Doing More On The Indie Web (45 min to walk people through everything in https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieMark from Webmentions to Micropub etc.)
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Salt
tantek, hmm, may have time to set that up...uncertain lots to do before 11 days out of town, I really don't have the expertise of the session I would want to propose...
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Salt
basically adding POSSE functionality to any static site generator
#
@BillSeitz
RT @kevinmarks Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club San Francisco http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-06-01.html #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/738425170147311616)
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tantek
Salt, it takes mere seconds/minutes to set up
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tantek
do you already link to your social media profiles from personal site?
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KevinMarks2
Proposing something you want help with is good
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Salt
tantek, yes...sort of, I use redirects so that the base link to the service doesn't add to the link pool
#
tantek
link pool?
#
Salt
like there should never be a public link to a direct fb profile imho, instead one should have a link to fb internally that then redirects to the actual site, perhaps it is a litter overly paranoid, but I would like to be able to forward to the location I want for a specific site
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Salt
and know where a particular profile is linked from
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tantek
interesting. also a technique against link rot presumably
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tantek
it's like you're own personal t.co
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tantek
s/you're/your
#
Loqi
tantek meant to say: it's like your own personal t.co
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Salt
right
#
Salt
but it does appear to break web sign-in
#
Salt
so hrm...
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tantek
Salt, you only need one direct such link
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tantek
e.g. Github is a good one
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Salt
right
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tantek
FB is not supported right now for web sign-in anyway
#
Salt
I don't suppose Wikipedia is >_>
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tantek
I don't think Wikipedia supports OAuth
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tantek.com
edited /2016/Leaders (+38) "/* Session Ideas */ add a leader for renaming session"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
hm yeah, indieauth.com does pattern matching on the URLs it finds on your site to check whether they are a specific silo
#
aaronpk
i'm not sure i want to fetch each to check what it eventually resolves to
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tantek
each rel=me?
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Salt
yeah...my setup builds the list based on a yml file, seems fairly complicated to change one entry to direct link
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Salt
gonna see if adding an invisible link works
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Salt
yeap, that looks like it worked
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tantek
right you can use <link rel="me" ... >
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tantek
Salt, so step one, add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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Salt
there appears to be lots of spam on that list..
#
Salt
maybe not
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tantek
wait what? no there should be zero spam anywhere on indiewebcamp.com
#
Salt
just looked like lots of long links
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Salt
missed the user names in them
#
Salt
also, it is odd that the links don't actually go anywhere but rather ask to edit a page for said link
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tantek
like who?
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tantek
they should in general link to User: pages
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Salt
the ones directly above Salt now
#
tantek
the edits should show up here
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Salt
fair point, and I did just edit it...
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snarfed
Salt: feel free to try https://brid.gy/about#publish for POSSE from static sites
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snarfed
no code needed, supports both interactive and automated
#
Salt
snarfed, yeah, I liked the idea of that, but what I am really looking for is automation in the sense of I submit an article, if it has a specific service listed, then it is automagically pushed there
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snarfed
Salt: sure! you could probably get that by combining bridgy publish via webmention with https://telegraph.p3k.io/
#
snarfed
or with your own webmention automation, bridgy publish is still less work than implementing the silo APIs yourself...but up to you!
#
Salt
that's a great idea and if it is the direction I choose, then that'll be part of sunday's implementation :P
#
@Borthwick
@julien51 👏🍾 RT @benwerd: Superfeedr, and the awesome Julien Genestoux, have joined Medium. Exciting! https://medium.com/superfeedr-thoughts/medium-acquires-superfeedr-540fdfb04ec7#.3y32www6g #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/738431619875409920)
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Salt
I think the 45 minute session will include a discussion of best methodology
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#
@julien51
RT @Borthwick @julien51 👏🍾 RT @benwerd: Superfeedr, and the awesome Julien Genestoux, have joined Medium. Exciting! https://medium.com/superfeedr-thoughts/medium-acquires-superfeedr-540fdfb04ec7#.3y32www6g #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/738432521608830976)
#
altsalt.net
edited /2016/Sessions (+234) "added POSSE session"
(view diff)
#
Salt
alright, so it appears that the irc-people page isn't being watched by Loqi...
#
Loqi
yeah!
#
tantek
did you click minor edit?
#
Salt
fair point :P
#
tantek
Salt, I just clicked the 3 people above you in /irc-people and they all have user pages
#
tantek
adding yourself is not a minor edit ;)
#
tantek
and below you in the list, of those three, only sanduhrs (who doesn't seem to be here) is missing a user page
#
tantek
anyway, now that you have websignin working, add your session idea! https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Sessions#Session_Ideas
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Salt
yeah, I was reading it wrong methinks
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altsalt.net
created /User:Altsalt.net (+988) "init commit"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
hah, i was just about to say you should update your user page Salt
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ben_thatmustbeme
beat me to it
#
ben_thatmustbeme
also, congrats on being able to sign in
#
Loqi
Salt has 1 karma
#
Salt
nomnomnom karma
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tantek
kinda surprised you didn't inherit some karma from previous salt fans ;)
#
Loqi
[indieweb] "Last night’s Homebrew Website Club SF @MozSF!
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Salt
tantek, haha
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Salt
I've had the name on freenode since forever but I suppose people could have been talking about saltstack and accidentally given karma
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bear
pretty sure the only person who would talk about saltstack or ansible would be me
#
bear
salt++
#
Loqi
salt has 2 karma
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Salt
bear, hehe, I went with ansible actually >_>
#
bear
I use both
#
bear
ansible for home and past $dayjob and at work now we use salt
#
Salt
I really liked the idea of not having to put something on the child machines
#
tantek.com
edited /events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club (+104) "/* Blog posts */ kevinmarks notes"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club (+69) "/* Photos */ qwh photo"
(view diff)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Medium acquires Superfeedr — Superfeedr’s thoughts — Medium" https://medium.com/superfeedr-thoughts/medium-acquires-superfeedr-540fdfb04ec7#.3y32www6g
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M-Kodo
aaronpk (IRC): I noticed you don't wrap h-entries in h-feed, which is fine by me but breaks my parser code for people who choose to do that heh. the datastructure (in go anyway) is way different if it's wrapped in h-feed because it's a child. Did you do that on your site on purpose or just coincidence?
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tantek.com
edited /person-tag (+61) "link to person mention as related"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
M-Kodo: I haven't gotten around to adding h-feed around my feeds yet. I probably should at some point tho
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tantek.com
edited /person-tag (-13) "/* Tantek */ regularly (more than just one)"
(view diff)
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GWG
M-Kodo: If there is only 1 h-entry, there shouldn't be an h-feed...feed would suggest more than one in my opinion.
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aaronpk
yes he's talknig about my pages like my home page or channel feeds
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aaronpk
i just have a bunch of top-level h-entrys on the pages
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GWG
No h-feed? Why?
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tantek
GWG that's an important consideration, publisher time is non-zero-cost, thus requests that don't have an obvious benefit don't result in anything
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tantek
this is why lots of more complicated efforts to add markup etc failed, because people didn't care / lazy
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tantek
M-Kodo, in the long history of experience of consuming feeds, it's been pretty clear parsing code needs to adapt to publishers more than the other way
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aaronpk
if someone gives me a compelling reason to add h-feed markup then I probably will. i suspect the reason might be things like my feeds look better in readers, etc.
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tantek
thus if your parser code sees nothing but a list of h-entry elements, it should handle it
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tantek
aaronpk: if you don't get an immediate benefit, why bother?
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aaronpk
i think M-Kodo was saying his code *only* works with a list of h-entry elements right now, not with an h-feed?
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tantek
we should keep this laziness in mind, as it applies to people in general
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tantek
aaronpk: no he said the opposite
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aaronpk
"I noticed you don't wrap h-entries in h-feed, which is fine by me but breaks my parser code for people who choose to do that"
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tantek
right, your lack of h-feed breaks his parser code
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aaronpk
i read that the other way around
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aaronpk
especially since his code *does* work with my feeds right now http://tyler.cat:8080/?url=http://aaronparecki.com/all
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tantek
I read the "which is fine by me but" as parenthetical
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tantek
thus something is breaking from your site
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tantek
I guess it could mean either
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tantek
M-Kodo: what's the problem case?
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aaronpk
hm i need some better p-name and summary fallback on some of my posts
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@webgefrickel
Late to the party, but here are some of my photos from this years #IndieWebCamp and #btconf in Düsseldorf: https://webgefrickel.de/blog/beyond-tellerrand-and-indiewebcamp-2016
(twitter.com/_/status/738450475188682753)
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Loqi
h-feed is a microformats2 draft for marking up a stream or feed of h-entry posts, like complete posts on a home page or archive pages, or summaries or other brief lists of posts.
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gRegorLove
I had to account for that in adding h-feed support to picoFeed. Wasn't too hard to put the top-level h-entries in an implied h-feed
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gRegorLove
(work still in progress)
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aaronpk
yeah all you really lose is the ability to have a meaningful "name" for the feed itself (which can be used to improve the way it looks when you are subscribing to it in a reader)
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bear
also default author info?
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aaronpk
i have that still, the last item on my page is an h-card
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aaronpk
and the /authorship algorithm describes how they connect
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gRegorLove
Yeah, but if it's only h-entries they *should* have authorship marked up properrly
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@webrocker
wordpress #indieweb tinkerers, can I turn off "get pingback/trackback notification" and still get webmentions or are these connected?
(twitter.com/_/status/738265112595865600)
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aaronpk
gRegorLove: my h-entrys only have my author URL as the property, no h-card embedded in each entry
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gRegorLove
Yeah, which is proper
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gRegorLove
edge-casey, but proper :)
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aaronpk
i might change that soon
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gRegorLove
I appreciated it since it helped me improve my wm plugin, and picoFeed parsing
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tantek.com
edited /2016/Düsseldorf (+267) "/* Photos */ add Steffen Rademacker, compact list, fix animated group photo"
(view diff)
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tantek
!tell GWG do you know the answer to this WordPress pingback/trackback/webmention question? https://twitter.com/webrocker/status/738265112595865600 Can you reply to him?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG
tantek: Someone beat me to it. But I commented in.
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tantek
GWG++ thank you
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Loqi
GWG has 161 karma
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tantek
pfefferle++ you too :)
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Loqi
pfefferle has 17 karma
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GWG
For simplicity, the webmentions plugin uses the pings open setting that already exists.
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GWG
Which doesn't distinguish by type.
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GWG
But you can disable pingbacks entirely by not accepting them.
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GWG
I'm not sure about trackbacks.
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GWG
i think I found a way to do it in plugin form, but I didn't test it
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@webrocker
@dshanske thank you david. i get loads of trackback spam, but would hate to lose the webmention intergration, so thats good news @pfefferle
(twitter.com/_/status/738455328879185920)
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KevinMarks
hm "progressive enhancement is just not baked into any popular framework."
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KevinMarks
things to fix?
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tantek
lol yes
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tantek
if anything that's perhaps the biggest failure of the progressive enhancment movement, not producing (enough?) frameworks that actually *do* progressive enhancement, and relying too much on talks / how tos and assuming everyone would code direct HTML+CSS+JS
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aaronpk
adactio bookmarked one that did, trying to find it
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aaronpk
looks really interesting
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kylewm.com
edited /2016/Sessions (+13) "/* Offline */ +me"
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[kylewm]
would Progressive Web Apps be a good session for Saturday? (and is it Google/Android specific?) I basically don’t know what it is, so would need to learn a bunch or recruit someone to lead it
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gRegorLove
What is Progressive Web App?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Progressive Web App" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Mm
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[kylewm]
is MobilePub a PWA?
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gRegorLove
kylewm: I think it's mostly service workers caching + pre-caching content, supported by current browsers
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KevinMarks
not google/android specific; works on firefox, chrome + chromium derived browsers
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GWG
Anyone ever write a script to test trackbacks?
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KevinMarks
but works very well on android
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GWG
I hate to reproduce the wheel.
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snarfed
[kylewm]: yes very different. kind of the opposite :P
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snarfed
hate to refer you to videos but tantek liked a couple from google i/o recently? and/or one from adactio from somewhere? *defers to tantek...*
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tantek
GWG, I'm almost afraid to ask, test trackbacks? why?
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GWG
tantek: The person you referenced earlier wants to disable trackbacks but keep webmentions. I have an idea on how to disable them, but I need to ensure they get rejected.
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[kylewm]
OK maybe my goal will be to find/watch that video and have a session
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[kylewm]
snarfed: oh is this the jaffathecake video tantek shared??
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tantek
GWG, that's a very specific test
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tantek
make sure trackbacks do nothing
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tantek
and are not advertised
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tantek
that could be useful for anyone
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tantek
and if they "fail" it could warn them, hey it looks like you have trackbacks on, you should turn that off to discourage excess trackback spam traffic
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@RikMende
@phillipadsmith to note #indieweb http://2016.indieweb.org and also check out @withknown (engine behind my site)
(twitter.com/_/status/738459223068147712)
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tantek
what is Trackback?
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Loqi
TrackBack was a protocol for web sites to notify other web sites when they've posted a link to them (respectively) https://indiewebcamp.com/Trackback
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tantek
GWG ^^^ add your testing need to /Trackback#Brainstorming
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[kylewm]
"Instant Loading: Building offline-first Progressive Web Apps - Google I/O 2016” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmGr0RszHc8
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[kylewm]
can’t believe I confused that with “Instant Apps” :slightly_smiling_face:
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ben_thatmustbeme
i should probably watch that since i am writing one
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ben_thatmustbeme
but they basically just keep saying "with Angular" and i tune out
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Loqi
agreed.
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Loqi
Loqi has 400 karma
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gRegorLove
Instant Apps: Just add water
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GWG
tantek: I thought someone might already have a script for that.
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ben_thatmustbeme
Loqi, Water or Oil?
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GWG
Maybe the inverse of webmentions rock.
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tantek
is there a .spam domain?
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aaronpk
i was about to say
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tantek
trackback.spam :P
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aaronpk
hm i should add indieweb summit to upcoming.org :D
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tantek
wonders if there's a .paper and .scissors too
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GWG
There's a sale on XYZ today
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gRegorLove
Wait, upcoming.org is up? I thought it was just archives
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Loqi
XYZ has 1 karma
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tantek
gRegorLove: for backers
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aaronpk
gRegorLove: the beta is up anyway
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gRegorLove
Ahh, cool!
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gRegorLove
Lol to the midi on upcoming.org
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tantek.com
edited /2016/Leaders (+114) "/* Session Ideas */ subheads"
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /2016/Leaders (+244) "/* rename to indieweb */"
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kylewm.com
edited /2016/Sessions (+476) "/* Progressive Web Apps */"
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[kylewm]
I blame KevinMarks for my interest in this (PWAs) btw
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[kevinmarks]
Which is Alex talking about combining pwa with amp; as tantek says having an h-entry is leaner even than amp
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@krynsky
Can We Save the Open Web? A very important question. Presentation by @Dries https://www.youtube.com/ #opensource #opendata #indieweb #openweb
(twitter.com/_/status/738473542057119744)
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[emmak]
what is a pwa?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "pwa" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Mn
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tantek
what is a progressive web app
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "progressive web app" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Mo
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tantek
what is a progressive web application?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "progressive web application" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Mp
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tantek
anyone have any ideas on how to combine a /event post and /payment to communicate that RSVPs require payment to be accepted?
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tantek
and then a way to combine an /RSVP with a /payment such that the /event post can recognize that the /payment is for that RSVP?
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aaronpk
facebook does this by providing a way for the event organizer to provide a URL to purchase tickets
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tantek
sure, I'm thinking how can we fully decentralize what the decentralizedweb.net site does
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tantek
like they're using the Eventbrite silo for RSVPs / payments
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tantek
we're using an indie event for RSVPs
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tantek
but we're still using tito for payments
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aaronpk
that sounds like a fun session for the weekend
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ben_thatmustbeme
so long as their is a reference to a receipt of some sort, the RSVP only needs to include a rel=receipt or something like that
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aaronpk
IMO we're not going to have decentralized payments any time soon, so we should find ways of using payment services along with indie RSVPs
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ben_thatmustbeme
you can verify the receipt is for your event and that you trust the receipt source obv
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aaronpk
on our ti.to registration I have a field where people are supposed to put in the URL of their indie RSVP if they register that ticket option
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snarfed
esp the design for verifying attendees at the door with pure indie events/rsvps
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tantek
aaronpk do you use that to de-dupe?
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aaronpk
we'll find out soon when i go to print the nametags
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aaronpk
my intent with it was so people would make the association of indie RSVP with the $5 discount
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tantek
just realized he might have forgotten to do that
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miklb.com
edited /2016/Leaders (+316) "/* rename to indieweb */"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
and apparently it's not a required field even though i thought it was
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tantek
sounds like we should also make the rename to indieweb a discussion session at the Summit itself
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tantek
hopes he wasn't too late to get a printed nametag :)
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tantek
I think I may have stopped at indie RSVP, not realizing I needed to tito also
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miklb.com
created /Template:miklb (+125) "Created page with "<span class="h-card">{{sparkline| http://cdn.miklb.com/images/profile_4_16_sm.png.}} [[User:Miklb.com|Michael Bishop]]</span>""
(view diff)
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[emmak]
i didn't realize i needed to register on ti.to either
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aaronpk
huh, what part of the text on the site was confusing?
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aaronpk
i want to make that clearer for next time
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tantek
aaronpk I guess I figured that by showing up on the page I was done?
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tantek
wonders how many of the Indie RSVPs won't show up in the tito list that aaronpk is printing
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aaronpk
i guess i have to do that tonight
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aaronpk
i was going to go through the full list in all three places and make sure they're in sync
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aaronpk
tho i'm having second thoughts about manually adding people to the guest list on the wiki
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aaronpk
(right now my nametag printing script gets its data from the wiki guest list h-cards)
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[emmak]
"See indiewebcamp.com/RSVP for instructions on how to create an RSVP post. Once you've created the RSVP post which links to this page, send a Webmention and you'll appear below!"
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gRegorLove
I did both steps, but the ti.to step did seem a bit odd after appearing already.
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[emmak]
since the instructions stop at sending the RSVP, and i am bad at reading comprehension, i thought i was done at that point
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tantek
I read it the same way as emmak
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tantek
and the "you'll appear below!" has a sense of "you're done!" to it
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gRegorLove
ti.to as the authoritative source of attendees vs the wiki also seems odd. I mean, I get it, but just vs previous years
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aaronpk
my concern is that people may not want their name made public, and if they only registered via ti.to it's not public by default
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aaronpk
(this happened last year with someone)
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tantek
oh dear
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KevinMarks
who got that domain?
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tantek
I'm assuming @joshuajuran did
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M-Kodo
are there any sort of signature based indie web protocols yet?
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M-Kodo
for signing content using a public key associated with your domain
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@kevinmarks
Mobilepub by Ben is growing new features daily https://ben.thatmustbe.me/mobilepub/ - today POSSE syndication
(twitter.com/_/status/738492711309705216)
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M-Kodo
did indieauth get rebranded to web signin or is that a different spec?
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gRegorLove
What is GPG?
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Loqi
OpenPGP (Pretty Good Privacy) is a message exchange format that uses public key cryptography to enable people to exchange encrypted and/or signed data https://indiewebcamp.com/GPG
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snarfed
M-Kodo: out of curiosity, what's your signature use case?
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@altsalt
@nayafia IndieWeb Summit and generally hanging out :P I figured most people from Py wouldn't spend the weekend...
(twitter.com/_/status/738494022528827393)
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M-Kodo
snarfed (IRC): marking something as verified. like if you have 1+1 = 2 on your site I could post a signature saying my domain believes that to be true
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M-Kodo
as a webmention or something
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gRegorLove
M-Kodo: There's some information on https://indiewebcamp.com/pgp#Integrity. Not many have experimented with it in the indieweb community.
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aaronpk
a couple of us have sent encrypted messages to each other by encrypting with pgp and sending a webmention
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gRegorLove
But feel free to expand with your thoughts
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snarfed
M-Kodo: you could just post a reply on your site saying that, and if you serve over https, its cert verification will already prove that you and only you said it
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snarfed
a/and only you/
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snarfed
er, omit the "and only you"...but still
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snarfed
seems like https cert verification would cover most use cases
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gRegorLove
What is web sign in?
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Loqi
Web sign-in is a way to sign in to websites using your personal web address https://indiewebcamp.com/web-sign-in
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gRegorLove
IndieAuth is an implementation of web sign-in
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M-Kodo
ah
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@btconf
Thanks a LOT for this very kind words about #btconf & #indiewebcamp. “So many open-minded and friendly people…” YES! https://twitter.com/webgefrickel/status/738450475188682753
(twitter.com/_/status/738494672071450624)
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GWG
On my way
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gRegorLove
Safe travels, GWG.
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GWG
Plane doesn't leave for an hour.
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@gDmobnutz2w
RT @btconf Thanks a LOT for this very kind words about #btconf & #indiewebcamp. “So many open-minded and friendly people…” YES! https://twitter.com/webgefrickel/status/738450475188682753
(twitter.com/_/status/738496698616545280)
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[kylewm]
whoa, I didn’t know to register via ti.to either
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aaronpk
haha oh jeez
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aaronpk
well i was gonna find that out tongiht when i collate the lists
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[kylewm]
wait, can you check if I did?
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[benatwork]
wait what
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[benatwork]
also why isn’t my indie-RSVP there
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[benatwork]
hrmph
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aaronpk
next time i'm gonna make it auto-register to ti.to for you or something
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[kylewm]
I remember checking the “Free” checkbox, so maybe I did do it
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[benatwork]
guess I’m going to have to pay $5 for my buggy code
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aaronpk
i don't see kyle or ben in the registrations
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aaronpk
[benatwork]: you can register for the "free" one if you put the URL in when you register
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aaronpk
but it would be cool if you showed up on the page too
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[benatwork]
it would..!
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[benatwork]
I’ll fix that tonight
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[kylewm]
looks like someone sent a webmention on your behalf, benwerd
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GWG
I added myself to the guest list. Was I supposed to do something else?
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aaronpk
i am mildly amused that it's only the IWC regulars who are confused about this new registration process that goes through ti.to
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[kylewm]
:smile:
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aaronpk
GWG: did you post an RSVP from your site?
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GWG
aaronpk, no. Did I miss a memo?
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snarfed
grabs popcorn
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aaronpk
there are (apparently not very good) instructions on http://2016.indieweb.org
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Loqi
IndieWeb Summit
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GWG
I just logged into the wiki like I always do.
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GWG
I went to Indiewebcamp.com/2016
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aaronpk
we wanted to try a more accessible registration format this year that didn't require editing the wiki page
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KevinMarks
I registered both ways, but there wasn't a 'remote' option
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aaronpk
so the wiki page is more of a guest book now, rather than registration we use for counting for food and such
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GWG
I just did that. I will see about an RSVP, but I need more than my phone to do that.
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aaronpk
no worries, you can do that later, we know your'e coming :)
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GWG
I have to key it in manually. I don't post RSVPs often.
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M-Kodo
you don't have to own your domain to do rsvp which i thought was ironic
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M-Kodo
you just need to be able to publish html content
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@kevinmarks
“Therein comes the biggest lie in all this, now exposed: There is no secret sauce in media.” http://rafat.org/post/142855993216/the-end-of-scale #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/738500222821666816)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "“Therein comes the biggest lie in all this, now exposed: There is no secret sauce in media.” http://rafat.org/post/142855993216/the-end-of-scale #indieweb" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/therein-comes-the-biggest-lie-in-all-this-now-exposed
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aaronpk
M-Kodo: if it becomes a problem, then next year i'll blacklist things like pastebin and gists
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@uranther
RT @kevinmarks “Therein comes the biggest lie in all this, now exposed: There is no secret sauce in media.” http://rafat.org/post/142855993216/the-end-of-scale #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/738501568383815680)
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bear
I was trying to register as a remotie but couldn't figure out how
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gRegorLove
We've accepted RSVPs in recent years from people with just a blogger or something; domain isn't a strict requirement to attend. Those attendees usually leave with a domain set up though.
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aaronpk
i didn't make a ti.to ticket option for remote attendees because the tickets are more important for getting a count on the people who are physically there.
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aaronpk
probably a good idea to make a remote attendance ticket for next year tho
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aaronpk
in the mean time, it's still totally great to send an indie rsvp to the page so you show up there, plus also adding yourself to the wiki guest list under remote attendance
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gRegorLove
Idea for next year: show paid rsvps on the page as well as indie rsvps. Perhaps with a "private" option for those who don't want their name published.
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gRegorLove
How many paid registrants have there been?
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aaronpk
quite a few
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@jimpick
Up next. Indieweb and Portland!
(twitter.com/_/status/738505205407318017)
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gregorlove.com
edited /Main_Page (-459) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ rm 2016-06-01"
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gregorlove.com
edited /Events (+13) "archived 2016-06-01 hwc"
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Mostly I'm just thinking about this from the IndieWeb "Own Your Own Data" perspective, so if I'm reading this all correctly, the way the plugin" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/mostly-im-just-thinking-about-this-from-the-indieweb-own
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2016/Leaders (+188) "/* Session Ideas */"
(view diff)
KevinMarks, _6a68, tantek, KartikPrabhu and [jimpick] joined the channel
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[jimpick]
catching the Amtrak Cascades tomorrow to get to Portland :slightly_smiling_face: