#indiewebcamp 2016-03-05

2016-03-05 UTC
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kylewm it sounds like Mandrill is basically going away, being merged back into Mailchimp
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sknebel yeah
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sknebel seems like they want to concentrate on "premium" services
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sknebel and weed out the people they don't make money with
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gRegorLove Interesting, got an HTTP 406 Not Acceptable response to sending a pingback
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@circa1977 @karj If you find yourself in Malm. http://www.foocafe.org/event/beyond-twitter-an-indieweb-future-for-social-media (twitter.com/_/status/705920460874084352)
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@RayJayPerreault RT @ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 34 (twitter.com/_/status/705963564817842176)
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@ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 34 (twitter.com/_/status/705963552323014656)
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp
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Loqi tantek: petermolnar left you a message 1 day, 13 hours ago: if I load your page with 3rd party content blocked, it fries Firefox with a script timeout message as chrome://global/content/bindings/videocontrols.xml:1523 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-03/line/1457014396762
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tantek weird
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tantek petermolnar: do you use https://indiewebcamp.com/Mightybell ?
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tantek !tell petermolnar Mightybell is a mishmash of enterprise-y buzzwords and it's not at all why it is relevant to the indieweb - and no one asked about it - so I'm going to delete the page. If you can find an external citation as to why Mightybell is relevant to the indieweb we can document accordingly.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com deleted /Mightybell "mightybell.com appears to be a mishmash of enterprise-y buzzwords, unclear how relevant to the indieweb"
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GWG Evening, tantek
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@Weifarer RT @ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 34 (twitter.com/_/status/705980204364271617)
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tantek this is interesting: http://techcrunch.com/2016/03/03/instagram-starts-blocking-deeplinking-to-other-social-media-profiles/
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tantek a silo discriminating against other silo profiles, but not against indieweb sites
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tantek.com edited /Instagram (+135) "/* Features */ note website profile feature disallows another silo profile" (view diff)
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tantek aww micropub & indiepub
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tantek https://tomalexander.withknown.com/2016/one-problem-with-known-most-of-its-features-are-very
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Loqi [Tom Alexander] One problem with Known: most of its features are very difficult to search for. Micropub & Indiepub sound good, but Google only brings boozy results....
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tantek maybe we should all blog about micropub and shift that?
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tantek what is Indiepub?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Indiepub" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Fp
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tantek huh
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tantek !tell kylewm just realized your simple person-tagged note no longer has person-tags! (post Known move) https://kylewm.com/2015/12/demoing-person-tags-with
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /person-tag (+5) "/* Example */ use 2015 URL for previous version" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /person-tag (+4) "/* Kyle Mahan */ prev URL" (view diff)
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@Reeganindia RT @w3c First Public Working Drafts: Webmention; Social Web Protocols https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5268 (twitter.com/_/status/706006976195489793)
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mcepl Do you want to tell me that GNU Social cannot federate with pump.io? That would be a big fail.
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@WendyandCharles ReadersGazette: BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 34 (twitter.com/_/status/705965131797233665)
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@mothersele How about an #indieweb BOF on webmention @DrupalCampLDN ? (twitter.com/_/status/706056041516158976)
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@djwesto Yes, great idea. When & where are you planning to hold an #indieweb BOF at @DrupalCampLDN @mothersele? (twitter.com/_/status/706079680953237504)
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@AgileCollective Listening to @mothersele promoting best UX practice on the internet. 👍 #DCLondon #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/706082112835817472)
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@mothersele RT @djwesto Yes, great idea. When & where are you planning to hold an #indieweb BOF at @DrupalCampLDN @mothersele? (twitter.com/_/status/706089411587473408)
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@mothersele I enjoyed sharing my thoughts on #indieweb and using Drupal to build open web in my session @DrupalCampLDN now thinking about BOF (twitter.com/_/status/706091271178362880)
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@mothersele RT @AgileCollective Listening to @mothersele promoting best UX practice on the internet. 👍 #DCLondon #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/706092126514388992)
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voxpelli Instagram blocking links to profiles on other social networks was a new "UX fix" I haven't seen before: http://techcrunch.com/2016/03/03/instagram-starts-blocking-deeplinking-to-other-social-media-profiles
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voxpelli "This was a rare use-case, and not the way our platform was intended to be used."
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voxpelli Silos having opinions about what links are okay to add and which aren't is odd
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@RikMende I wish my @withknown bookmarks could sync with Firefox Sync or another self hosted bookmarks system. #indieweb (http://www.rmendes.net/2016/i-wish-my-withknown-bookmarks-could-sync-with-firefox-sync) (twitter.com/_/status/706147399106822144)
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Loqi [indieweb] "I wish my @withknown bookmarks could sync with Firefox Sync or another self hosted bookmarks system. #indieweb" by Rick Mendes http://www.rmendes.net/2016/i-wish-my-withknown-bookmarks-could-sync-with-firefox-sync
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sknebel didn't whatsapp also block links to telegram?
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tantek what is whatsapp?
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Loqi WhatsApp is a proprietary mobile messaging application https://indiewebcamp.com/WhatsApp
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tantek sknebel: if you can find a citatin - go ahead an add it!
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tantek s/an add/and add
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Loqi tantek meant to say: sknebel: if you can find a citatin - go ahead and add it!
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tantek needs a way to fix two typos at once. *citation
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www.svenknebel.de edited /WhatsApp (+154) "/* Criticism */ Telegram link-blocking" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /push_notification (+261) "/* Brainstorming */ WebPush in Firefox, messenger" (view diff)
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tantek hmm bridgy seems to be taking a while to load
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tantek (web UI)
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tantek !tell benwerd,KevinMarks,kylewm,snarfed we need an indie event for next week's HWC SF - could one of you add one? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-03-09-homebrew-website-club#San_Francisco (already a FB event there)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm doing it right now
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Loqi kylewm: tantek left you a message 11 hours, 30 minutes ago: just realized your simple person-tagged note no longer has person-tags! (post Known move) https://kylewm.com/2015/12/demoing-person-tags-with http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-04/line/1457155324480
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tantek thanks kylewm!
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Loqi [indieweb] "SF Homebrew Website Club" by Kyle Mahan https://kylewm.com/2016/03/sf-homebrew-website-club-11
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kylewm.com edited /events/2016-03-09-homebrew-website-club (+75) "/* San Francisco */" (view diff)
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tantek !tell aaronpk could you generate /2015-created the same way you generated /2014-created ? I need it for https://indiewebcamp.com/2015-review !
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk ooh
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aaronpk wonder how I did that
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tantek pretty sure you had a script or query or something!
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aaronpk the question is what did I do with that script!
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tantek.com edited /2015-review (+84) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ Brighton and Edinburgh start dates from main HWC page" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk: you mean you didn't just check into your github? ;)
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aaronpk which repo!
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aaronpk no idea!
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tantek (also feel free to post that kind of stuff to the indiewebcamp wiki)
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tantek I think we should try to get the https://indiewebcamp.com/2015-review posted *BEFORE* IWC MIT!
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tantek I'll keep working on other aspects of it
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aaronpk oh hey I left comments in the source of the page! http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=2014-created&action=edit
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unrelenting.technology edited /HTTPS (+671) "SPDY → HTTP/2; Let's Encrypt alt clients; cipherli.st; 443d; fix typos" (view diff)
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aaronpk that was nice of me
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tantek viewsourcearcheology++
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Loqi viewsourcearcheology has 1 karma
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aaronparecki.com created /2015-created (+152985) "pages created in 2015" (view diff)
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aaronpk bam
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tantek whoa
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aaronpk wow there wasn't even any code other than the SQL query
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aaronpk that was easier than expected :)
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@RikMende RT @kevinmarks Sounds like Josh has the #indieweb principles in mind https://twitter.com/joshelman/status/704704177285439489 (twitter.com/_/status/706168689951969280)
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Loqi [indieweb] "SF Homebrew Website Club" by Kyle Mahan https://kylewm.com/2016/03/sf-homebrew-website-club-12
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unrelenting.technology edited /CloudFlare (+775) "More problems (Tor CAPTCHAs, centralization, abuse complaints)" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk: is it my imagination or is /2015-created A LOT bigger than /2014-created ?
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tantek (# of items)
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tantek looking back & forth I can't actually tell now
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aaronpk 2015: 1064 created, 2014: 1160
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aaronpk 2013: 583
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aaronpk 2012: 167
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tantek so slightly fewer, interesting
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kylewm.com edited /events/2016-03-23-homebrew-website-club (+105) "/* San Francisco */ add urls" (view diff)
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tantek did you just generate the older pages?
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aaronpk no, just a count from the DB
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aaronpk however, the number of pages doesn't reflect the amount of actual content created
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aaronpk since I know a whole bunch of emoji pages were created at some point
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tantek I suppose it would be good to have /2013-created /2012-created
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aaronpk emoji redirects
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aaronparecki.com created /2013-created (+82202) "created in 2013" (view diff)
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tantek the emoji redirects are not in either 2014 or 2015 - I think maybe you filtered out redirect pages?
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aaronparecki.com created /2012-created (+23188) "created in 2012" (view diff)
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aaronpk ah you're right! those numbers dont count redirect pages
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tantek and 2011 must have been tiny then
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aaronpk 112 in 2011
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aaronparecki.com created /2011-created (+16583) "created in 2011" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015-review (+48) "note to add same sections as 2014 review" (view diff)
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unrelenting.technology edited /Tor (+478) "/* Hidden Services */ Add silo and IndieWeb examples" (view diff)
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tantek the 2014 review post got a lot of good coverage and I think broadened awareness a lot
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tantek kylewm: hah - my Twitter RSVP POSSE copy has a "card" of you and your cat! https://twitter.com/t/status/706172940216184833
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kylewm heh, I need to add an image to the event then!
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kylewm tantek: will you do the invite thing for https://www.facebook.com/events/555707837940351/ ?
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tantek on it
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tantek Bridgy invitation flood incoming, let's see how the de-duping is working
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tantek 200+ that ought to do it.
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aaronpk oh my
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tantek Facebook's event UX is still better than anyone else's for this stuff. Nowhere else can you hand select and invite 200+ people to an event in mere minutes.
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tantek kylewm: now you remember to "FB friend" everyone who shows up so you can invite them to 3/23!
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tantek heck, look through the list of 201 invited to https://www.facebook.com/events/555707837940351/ and "Add Friend" the ones you've met already!
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aaronpk ooh here they come
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aaronpk oops that was someone else's batch of bridgy mentions
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snarfed1 feel free to click tantek's poll now button :P
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snarfed er, kyle's, or whoever owns the event
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Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 13 minutes ago: we need an indie event for next week's HWC SF - could one of you add one? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-03-09-homebrew-website-club#San_Francisco (already a FB event there) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-05/line/1457196731818
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aaronpk i'm trying to launch h-event parsing for XRay. wondering what I should do when the location doesn't have a URL
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tantek snarfed: the "page" owns the event
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snarfed got it. feel free to click the page's poll now button then :P
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aaronpk also why isn't this URL showing up as u-url in the parsed result? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-03-09-homebrew-website-club
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aaronpk (the mozilla url)
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tantek huh?
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tantek what Mozilla URL?
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aaronpk on the event
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aaronpk oh no! I forgot to add invitee parsing!
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aaronpk guess i know what i'm doing next today
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tantek for x-ray handling of Bridgy invitation webmentions?
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk but also there's something else weird going on
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tantek !tell adactio is there a HWC Brighton this week? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-03-09-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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aaronpk getting weird errors from appengine trying to fetch bridgy URLs
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snarfed aaronpk: ?
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aaronpk https://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbrid-gy.appspot.com%2Frsvp%2Ffacebook%2F688447421193285%2F555707837940351%2F10153997868474283
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aaronpk "failed to open stream: RPC Error: Unknown error - 4"
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tantek !tell Jeena is there a HWC Göteborg this week? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-03-09-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed weird indeed
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snarfed 500 i assume?
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tantek snarfed, Bridgy web UI was *very* slow to respond this morning
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tantek FYI
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aaronpk it's an error with file_get_contents on my side
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snarfed aaronpk: ah ok
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aaronpk it might be timing out
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snarfed tantek: yeah sorry about that, known issue, trying tuning different things to cut costs and latency has suffered
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aaronpk even from my browser requests are taking like 10 seconds
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snarfed i'll fix that now
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tantek snarfed - ok cool, not a problem, just making sure it wasn't something unexpected
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tantek cutcosts++
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Loqi cutcosts has 1 karma
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tantek (especially on a free service!)
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tantek Has anyone heard from Angelo Gladding lately?
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snarfed bridgy should be faster now
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snarfed hopefully. i can revert one more tuning change if not.
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tantek.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+128) "/* Getting Started or Restarting */ Add LA getting started by Angelo" (view diff)
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tantek !tell AngeloGladding welcome back! Add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people and lets find some folks to help co-organize HWC LA!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-15) "-pdx this week" (view diff)
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tantek !tell jgarber is there a HWC DC this week? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-03-09-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+7) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ LA unconfirmed for this month" (view diff)
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aaronpk ah turns out XRay already supports invitee, but i wasn't handling it on the webmention.io side in the new format
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KevinMarks it's gillmor gang time
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Loqi KevinMarks: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 47 minutes ago: we need an indie event for next week's HWC SF - could one of you add one? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-03-09-homebrew-website-club#San_Francisco (already a FB event there) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-05/line/1457196731818
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KevinMarks I'll look at that after GG
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KevinMarks this weeks tech news
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KevinMarks re hwc LA https://twitter.com/doctorparadox/status/705661997535264768
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@doctorparadox @kevinmarks this is cool! love the commitment to ownership. will try to check out the Website Club here in LA on the 9th! (twitter.com/_/status/705661997535264768)
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KevinMarks do reach out to Barb
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KevinMarks hm http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/03/google-posts-embeds-a-one-way-social-network-directly-into-search-results/
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KevinMarks knol returns as posts?
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aaronpk still getting lots of timeouts from bridgy
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aaronpk not sure what I should set the timeout to when checking source URLs
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voxpelli looked and can't find any timeout issues from Bridgy in my endpoint yet
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aaronpk what's your timeout set to when making http requests?
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voxpelli let me check
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voxpelli 5 seconds
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aaronpk i just set mine to 10 seconds and i'm still getting error
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voxpelli my last fetch was 3 hours ago though, so could have changed now
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aaronpk ah k
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KevinMarks lol, https://twitter.com/artisanbrewclub liked my HWC tweet
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aaronpk this was the bridgy invite flood https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-03-05-11-56-14.png
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snarfed1 aaronpk: fun!
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snarfed blue is total, green is 4xxes?
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snarfed btw i'll try the next tuning revert now, should help latency
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk looks like things are settling out again now
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snarfed funny, that flood is barely visible in bridgy's graphs
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aaronpk bridgy is probably sending traffic many more places than just webmention.io
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aaronpk hm, i'm reconsidering the HTTP codes that XRay returns. thinking it should be 200 in more cases
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snarfed polling too. it'd probably be visible if i just looked at outbound wms
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aaronpk 400 should really be only for when the client sends a bad request, not returned when there's something wrong with the URL it's fetching
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snarfed those 4xxes were mostly/all due to bridgy timeouts?
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voxpelli aaronpk: sounds like a combination of 4xx and 5xx would be suitable for whenever there's something wrong with the fetching
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voxpelli aaronpk: but – does this mean XRay returns results syncrhonously?
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aaronpk xray returns synchronously of course
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aaronpk yeah those 4xxs were almost all bridgy timeouts. (there's still a little bit of pingback spam in that mix)
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voxpelli well, it would be impossible for my xray equivalent to do that, it can take hours for it to lookup an URL in the worst cases of throttling
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aaronpk i don't understand
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aaronpk XRay is essentially just parsing the HTML. the thing using XRay needs the data before it can continue whatever it's doing.
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snarfed (aaronpk: sad, apologies. bridgy would retry on 5xx, but not 4xx. xray did the right thing though.)
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aaronpk webmention.io calls XRay now, instead of parsing the page itself
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voxpelli if someone pings me with with 500 urls for the same host at once I will ensure that I never fetch more than one page every X period of time, to avoid DoS:ing
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voxpelli so depending on how many I receive it can take quite a while
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aaronpk well XRay caches results for 5 minutes, and webmention.io also rate limits the same source/target to once every 30 seconds
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aaronpk these graphs are not from webmention.io
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voxpelli I see
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voxpelli I experimented with webhooks for async lookups in relspider, cause those could also take quite a while if someone had an uncrawled large identity graph
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voxpelli so it called the webhook included in the initial request with the result once the result had been found
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[kevinmarks] hm, my mac has stopped responding to trackpad clicks
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aaronpk one of the things the XRay API does is it can return the parsed version of the page *if* a given URL appears on the page. so if I pass url=http://example.com/foo&target=http://aaronparecki.com should that request return HTTP 200?
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aaronpk i'm thinking it should, since there's nothing wrong with the request
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@kevinmarks @_danilo when I checked their export this week it broke all the links and embeds: http://indiewebcamp.com/Medium#Exporting_your_data (twitter.com/_/status/706211044427849729)
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voxpelli 200 sounds right there
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KevinMarks abandoning WP for Medium for traffic - do we have a good POSSE to Medium flow? https://write.danilocampos.com/impractical-purity-why-i-ditched-wordpress-for-medium-3acf70bcd902#.hdsi6b4t1
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aaronpk medium has a posse to medium flow
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KevinMarks do we have a page for the opposite of silo quits?
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@HTML5Weekly Webmention W3C Working Draft: https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160301/ (twitter.com/_/status/706214713647108098)
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aaronpk alright, launching new version which should remove the HTTP 400 errors. now I just need some stats thing to actually log webmention.io traffic
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aaronpk anybody know a good tool/service that i can throw numbers at and turns into pretty graphs?
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snarfed monitoring? or analytics/BI?
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voxpelli aaronpk: for numbers it sounds like something like statsd + graphite?
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aaronpk monitoring i guess, but i don't need it to take any actions
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aaronpk hm yeah that sounds about right
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snarfed yeah statsd + graphite is a conventional approach
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aaronpk i think i set that up at some point, but can't remember
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snarfed we use https://www.scalyr.com/ at work and love it, but i don't know if they have a personal/free story
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aaronpk i guess i could always use munin
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snarfed looks like no
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aaronpk since i already have it for basic system health
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aaronpk investigates statsd again
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voxpelli I'm currently trying Loggly for converting log items to something graph-like, but wouldn't say that it's pretty or very user friendly
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aaronpk basically i just want to send one data point (success, various error codes) per webmention/pingback request to something, and have it show me a graph
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voxpelli statsd sounds right then
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Loqi [bridgy] Jamie Talbot replied '@kevinmarks @_danilo oof. I'll let the right people know.' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Medium#Exporting_your_data (https://twitter.com/majelbstoat/status/706211986585944064)
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kylewm Wordpress to Medium article fails to mention that Medium is about to start monetizing and it's not clear what that will look like
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Loqi [bridgy] Danilo Libre replied '@kevinmarks life is risk, I suppose 🍀' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Medium#Exporting_your_data (https://twitter.com/_danilo/status/706215011748806656)
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aaronpk wow all of this sounds complicated
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aaronpk statsd doesn't actually do anything itself, it needs a backend. graphite is a common one, but sounds like a PITA to set up
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aaronpk there's a host of other backends statsd can send to, including many web services https://github.com/etsy/statsd/blob/master/docs/backend.md
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KevinMarks there's Google BigQuery which si supposed to be a thing you just throw logs at and ti copes
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snarfed bigquery is great for analytics/BI, not sure if it's designed as much for monitoring though
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aaronpk ha https://kevinmccarthy.org/2013/07/18/10-things-i-learned-deploying-graphite/
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aaronpk "1. Deploying Graphite is a pain in the ass"
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KevinMarks well, datalab turns it into charts, right?
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aaronpk munin is starting to look like a good option :P
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kylewm was just looking at munin yesterday, i didn't understand if it was for monitoring an application or a server as a whole
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kylewm ?
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aaronpk all of the above?
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aaronpk by default it comes with a bunch of scripts that monitor system health stuff
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aaronpk but you can write your own for application-level things
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aaronpk i've been using it for yeeeears
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voxpelli aaronpk: if you can do with 25k API calls a month then if https://statsmix.com/ still works it could maybe act as a quick way to bootstrap a statsd-esque logging over REST
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aaronpk hm that's only 1 call every 30 seconds
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voxpelli if you get consistent traffic throughout the day, every day of the month
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aaronpk i do
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aaronpk the pingback spammers are persistent
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voxpelli I've had some colleagues that has been excited about http://prometheus.io/
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voxpelli although looks like they also suggest http://grafana.org/ as the visualization so it's also a two-part thing
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aaronpk eh i'm just gonna write a little munin plugin
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voxpelli too bad statistics tools like issue trackers seems to generally be rather complex and not very user friendly :/
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kylewm appengine's stuff is very nice there
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aaronpk yeah i like that it's all just built in
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kylewm on the other hand, i re-set up piwik a week ago, and the results are very boring
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aaronpk haha
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Loqi hehe
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voxpelli just stumbled upon https://www.librato.com/ again, will probably try that for stats next time, sensible pricing model + StatsD-like setup
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@RikMende is this #webmentions spam ? could/should your akismet @withknown plugin get rid of this? #indieweb @kylewmahan https://twitter.com/RikMende/status/706236434856984576/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/706236434856984576)
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aaronpk about to get some super ugly charts! yay https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-03-05-13-57-16.png
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@kylewmahan @RikMende @withknown it's Twitter spam backfed by Bridgy as opposed to native webmention spam. @mapkyca is the author of the Akismet plugin (twitter.com/_/status/706239098722193408)
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kylewm aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 89 karma
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aaronpk munin++
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Loqi munin has 1 karma
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@DracoBlue RT @HTML5Weekly Webmention W3C Working Draft: https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160301/ (twitter.com/_/status/706253969241325568)
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bear a lot of folks here would probably like Freeboard for the display of metrics data - it's all web based. https://github.com/Freeboard/freeboard
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