#indiewebcamp 2016-03-01

2016-03-01 UTC
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aaronpk hm, I see a string of webmention requests with that URL as the source and a whole bunch of URLs on tantek.com as the target
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aaronpk and it got a "not found" error on that URL
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aaronpk (possibly due to hitting bridgy rate limits?!)
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unicyclic.com mal edited /planet (+205) "/* How */" (view diff)
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unicyclic.com mal edited /planet (+96) "/* Examples: added unicyclic.com/indieweb */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks aaronpk: do you need exponential backoff?
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aaronpk we tracked it down
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aaronpk bridgy actually sent a whole bunch of webmentions which caused webmention.io to go fetch the pages from bridgy
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aaronpk details here: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/628
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KevinMarks ah, yikes
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tantek wow ok so it was my fault
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tantek continues to canary
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aaronpk "fault"
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snarfed bridgy's fault, tantek's credit for finding the bug
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tantek apparently the first "account that[ed] start public and then go private"
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snarfed (not that it needed to be said :P)
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tantek I didn't really find the bug, I just exhibited novel behavior
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snarfed tantek: maybe not, but definitely the first *active* one
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aaronpk certainly the first one with that many home page mentions ;)
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snarfed these were actually real responses, not just @t mentions...but that part is fun too
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aaronpk oh, k
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tantek is ok being a test case, as long as he doesn't get lots of needles and electrodes stuck into him and strapped to a bed in an isolation chamber.
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snarfed heh
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snarfed tantek: just fyi i'm temporarily pausing your twitter account until i fix this
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tantek no problem
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snarfed should be unpaused within a day
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aaronpk i thought bridgy didn't do anything with private twitter accounts?
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snarfed aaronpk: nope that's never actually been implemented
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aaronpk oh. it just ignores mentions *from* private accounts then?
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snarfed it properly handles private FB/G+/Flickr *posts*, and twitter @-replies from protected accounts, but if you sign up a protected IG/Twitter, bridgy assumes you meant to do that
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aaronpk ah
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snarfed (arguably a bad assumption, and i filed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/292 for it, and then was lazy and no one ever complained :P)
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snarfed THAT CHANGES NOW
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snarfed huh. this led me to another realization,
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snarfed silo comments, likes, etc generally inherit the parent post's privacy setting, which some users expect
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snarfed so they'd be surprised if their responses to a private post were backfed
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aaronpk oh yeah, interesting point
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tantek maybe
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snarfed which means https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/620 was probably a bad idea
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snarfed i have yet to document the specifics, but i believe it's true in general across silos
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KevinMarks not on twitter
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tantek depends on whether the silo supports /private_posts or /private_accounts !
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snarfed yes true, of bridgy's silos, i believe twitter is the one exception
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tantek yes in the first case, no in the second case
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snarfed tantek: actually i don't think it does depend on that
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KevinMarks because comments are independent posts, which maps to indieweb a bit better
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snarfed eg if you comment on a private FB post or a private instagram account's photo, both comments are private
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tantek snarfed, you're right. maps to whether the silo treats comments as their own posts (with permalinks) or not
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snarfed right. and again, afaik twitter is the only major silo that does that
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tantek if comments are their own post, then they get their own privacy setting
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tantek otherwise they inherit the privacy of the original post
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snarfed right
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snarfed deserves more documenting, but based on this, we should probably revert https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/620
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tantek snarfed: I think it still makes sense to support 620 for Twitter, that is, backfeed from public @-replies
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tantek s/from/
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Loqi tantek meant to say: snarfed: I think it still makes sense to support 620 for Twitter, that is, backfeed  public @-replies
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snarfed tantek: right, sure
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tantek but the others may deserve a heads-up in the profile
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tantek thinking about this a bit
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tantek added this to my FB profile:
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tantek Posts here come from my site tantek.com Comments/likes may be copied to original posts & made public!
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tantek Going to start with that
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tantek someone logged into FB want to try viewing https://www.facebook.com/tantek.celik and seeing if you can find that text?
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kylewm the use case i had expected was someone wants the same level of visibility of their originals and POSSE copies, so if they opted-in for private backfeed, the expectation they would keep the backfed comments at more or less the same privacy level
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aaronpk whoa, it's in the "intro" in the top left of the page
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tantek ok cool
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tantek I assume by "whoa" that it's fairly visible?
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aaronpk very
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tantek excellent
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kylewm I have a similar disclaimer on my instagram (even though it is non-private) "heads up: images are also published on my personal site by #OwnYourGram. comments and likes are backfed by Brid.gy."
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tantek because the next step would be putting into the header image
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tantek kylewm: makes sense
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tantek I wonder how we can document such disclaimer
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tantek we do have this
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tantek what is disclosure
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Loqi A disclosure is a bit of content, typically on a home page, on an indie web site that proactively discloses some aspect about the site that the site owner wants the user to explicitly be aware of https://indiewebcamp.com/disclosure
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tantek we should document such backfeed disclosures
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Loqi yea!
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tantek.com edited /disclosure (+875) "Backfeed Examples, kylewm and me" (view diff)
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tantek what is a disclaimer
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "disclaimer" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10FX
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tantek disclaimer is /disclosure
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loqi.me created /disclaimer (+23) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-02-29/line/1456796421596 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek documented: https://indiewebcamp.com/disclosure#Backfeed_Examples - anyone else have backfeed disclosures on your silo profiles?
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Loqi [indieweb] "#IndieWebCamp 2014 Year in Review — This Is A Movement" http://tantek.com/2015/201/b1/indiewebcamp-2014-year-review
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tantek wat the wat
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aaronpk wow where is it finding those
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tantek My site is causing all kinds of weirdness today
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aaronpk tantek: i think there's a case missing from authorship discovery
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aaronpk it's a silly one
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tantek example URL?
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20160229182947364
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aaronpk the author property is a URL, and there are no other h-cards on the page
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tantek uh, was looking for a real world example URL :P
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aaronpk i admit it's a bit contrived, but I did just encounter it in my test suite for webmention.io
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tantek (I mean, yes, it looks theoretically reasonable)
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tantek well I suppose we can add it to /authorship#Brainstorming as a theoretical simple example
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aaronpk if you rename the algorithm to author h-card discovery, then this example isn't valid ;)
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aaronpk since it correctly does not return an h-card
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aaronpk since there is none
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tantek what if they had a rel=author on that link to href="/" ?
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tantek as in, is the u-author acting as a replacement for rel=author?
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aaronpk let's find out http://pin13.net/mf2/?id=20160229183324281
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aaronpk oh it needs rel="author me"
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aaronpk in order for step 7.3 to catch it
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tantek got it - that's why I'm asking, if it's a *simplification* of an existing step, that may be sufficient to pursue
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aaronpk ack i'm reading it wrong
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aaronpk 7.1 says get the author page from that URL, so 7.2 and 7.3 are talking about the HTML that is on the author's URL after making another HTTP request
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tantek sounds right
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aaronpk yeah there's no way to make it work with rel=me if that HTTP request fails
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tantek are you asking me to add explicit error handling to that case?
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aaronpk i think so
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tantek or do you have a proposal?
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aaronpk explicit error handling is probably a good idea anyway, since it does involve making another HTTP request. (also in some cases it may not be possible/desirable to make that request, so we should have a clear path for what to do instead)
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aaronpk also, I think a possible step 7.5 could be looking for a matching rel-author URL. however, we won't end up with an h-card in that case, just a URL
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aaronpk oh that's fine, step 5.3 also doesn't return an h-card
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aaronpk just got my first invoice from Superfeedr!
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aaronpk i'm about to pay actual money for an indieweb service that is not hosting! I feel like this is an important milestone :P
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aaronpk aaaalright. just finished migrating webmention.io over to use XRay instead of parsing pages itself
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aaronpk dare I launch this tonight?
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kylewm do it do it
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aaronpk i'm scared
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kylewm don't do it don't do it
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kylewm can you launch for a few users?
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aaronpk i could do that i suppose
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kylewm my site just started saying 01 Mar 2016 :(
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kylewm timezones--
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Loqi timezones has -9 karma
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aaronpk timezones are hard
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mlncn.withknown.com edited /2016/MIT/Guest_List (+339) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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mlncn.withknown.com created /User:Mlncn.withknown.com (+715) "Created page with "Justice, liberty, and the self-organization we need for both drive me to support authentic news, especially public interest sources, such as http://binjonline.org/ most recently...."" (view diff)
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mlncn.withknown.com edited /User:Mlncn.withknown.com (+62) (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: where does your site say the date?
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KartikPrabhu what is disclaimer
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Loqi A disclosure is a bit of content, typically on a home page, on an indie web site that proactively discloses some aspect about the site that the site owner wants the user to explicitly be aware of https://indiewebcamp.com/disclaimer
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aaronpk okay it's launched for indiewebcamp
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aaronpk now I need someone to send a webmention to the wiki
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kartikprabhu.com edited /disclosure (+194) "/* Backfeed Examples */ add me twitter" (view diff)
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: it was loading outdated/cached javascript, and not replacing timestamps with "10 minutes ago" or whatever
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KartikPrabhu oh ok
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kylewm so I saw that posts this afternoon were being shown as tomorrow, also their permalinks are 2016/03/...
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kylewm that was one thing that I fixed in red wind (for some value of fixed) that i don't want to do again
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KartikPrabhu haha
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aaronpk oh boy, jenkins running the test suite for webmention.io hammers xray pretty hard now. it just spun up 8 instances
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snarfed aaronpk: oh boy indeed. you'll probably want to mock out those http requests in your tests
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gregorlove.com edited /book (+306) "Section headings. add cweiske, erin examples" (view diff)
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[aaronpk] Yeah I'll just need to automatically generate the stub data from the real XRay so that I can update it easily
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KartikPrabhu i have a feeling this multipart-POSSE of mine is going to test Bridgy's reply-to post algo: https://twitter.com/kartik_prabhu/status/704531642082144256
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@kartik_prabhu X helps law officer = the TV show Y 1. X = doctor/writer Y = Sherlock 2. X = writer Y = Castle 3. X = devil Y = Lucifer [1/3] (twitter.com/_/status/704531642082144256)
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KartikPrabhu as in does Bridgy backfeed reply to replies from Twitter?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: of course! you should know that :P
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KartikPrabhu hmmm. I don't have popular tweets so never tested it so here it goes ;)
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snarfed we've discussed it before
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KartikPrabhu aah yes I recall now!
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gregorlove.com edited /quotation (+136) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ +me" (view diff)
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snarfed iirc it always has
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: confirmed it does ;)
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snarfed (related discussion in eg https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/217 )
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KartikPrabhu oh yeah there is me promising to play around with it but never actually doing it ;)
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snarfed lol
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snarfed you didn't need to, i implemented it ok
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KartikPrabhu of course
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KartikPrabhu also neat that Bridgy takes into account my multipart-POSSE
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KartikPrabhu snarfed++ for not overthinking Bridgy POSSE-post-discovery
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Loqi snarfed has 204 karma
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snarfed lol thx
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KartikPrabhu also likes/favs don't propagate up that way which is also cool!
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KartikPrabhu the time-direction jumping in Twitter conversations is very very confusing
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kylewm.com edited /events/2016-03-09-homebrew-website-club (+41) "/* San Francisco */ me" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: absolutely loving how our replies to each other are indiewebified through webmentions!
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KartikPrabhu even with 3 years of doing this it seems like magic when it works!
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KartikPrabhu backfeed++
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Loqi backfeed has 1 karma
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KartikPrabhu webmention++
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Loqi webmention has 2 karma
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KartikPrabhu bridgy++
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Loqi bridgy has 38 karma
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KartikPrabhu withknown++
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Loqi withknown has 1 karma
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KartikPrabhu oh no withknown != known ?
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KartikPrabhu known++
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Loqi known has 10 karma
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@LScottBooks RT @ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 76 (twitter.com/_/status/704580264857636864)
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@NookBooksanMore RT @ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 76 (twitter.com/_/status/704579493571207169)
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@ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 76 (twitter.com/_/status/704579432934154240)
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@WendyandCharles ReadersGazette: BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 76 (twitter.com/_/status/704582145252171776)
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@barrymcgee @calum_ryan Ha, I had hope to implement webmentions last week, must get on it this week! (twitter.com/_/status/704614087301406720)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on How I misunderstood an aspect of Indieweb by D.V.D." by D.V.D. https://petermolnar.eu/how-i-misunderstood-an-aspect-of-indieweb/#comment-11590
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on by D.V.D." by D.V.D. https://petermolnar.eu/o37tvb/#comment-11591
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petermolnar ?
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petermolnar that should not happen
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@d0gada Thinking about #IndieWeb search spider to index my #MF2 h-feeds and provide results as #jsonp for static web-site. @bowtie_io have smth? (twitter.com/_/status/704628587031187456)
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@petermolnar @d0gada @bowtie_io http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-10-06/line/1444168166481 & http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-30/line/1454201082663 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/704629428740104192)
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@coect_net RT @d0gada Thinking about #IndieWeb search spider to index my #MF2 h-feeds and provide results as #jsonp for static web-site. @bowtie_io have smth? (twitter.com/_/status/704629779547471872)
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@calum_ryan @barrymcgee go for it! ☺ If you need help/want to discuss further join the IRC and our community discussions https://indiewebcamp.com/irc (twitter.com/_/status/704634801966473216)
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Loqi [bridgy] Dmytro V. Dogadailo replied '@petermolnar Thanks for the links, Peter. Agreed that date-ordered search for Te...' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-30/line/1454201082663 (https://twitter.com/d0gada/status/704634392635949056)
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Loqi [bridgy] Dmytro V. Dogadailo replied '@petermolnar Thanks for the links, Peter. Agreed that date-ordered search for Te...' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-10-06/line/1444168166481 (https://twitter.com/d0gada/status/704634392635949056)
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Loqi [indieweb] "To Known-dev: The Case Against ActivityStreamsPost" by Kyle Mahan https://kylewm.com/2016/02/to-known-dev-the-case-against-activitystreamspost
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Loqi [indieweb] "Thanks to @mapkyca for this nice Lightbox plugin for @withknown https://github.com/mapkyca/KnownLightbox #indieweb" by Rick Mendes http://www.rmendes.net/2016/thanks-to-mapkyca-for-this-nice-lightbox-plugin-for-withknown
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Loqi [indieweb] "Alright I just had a #Eureka moment!!! #indieweb" by Rick Mendes http://www.rmendes.net/2016/alright-i-just-had-a-eureka-moment-indieweb
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@RikMende Thanks to @mapkyca for this nice Lightbox plugin for @withknown https://github.com/mapkyca/KnownLightbox #indieweb (https://www.rmendes.net/2016/thanks-to-mapkyca-for-this-nice-lightbox-plugin-for-withknown) (twitter.com/_/status/704669392223612930)
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harryreeder.co.uk created /events/2016-03-01-homebrew-website-club (+2033) "Created page with "<div class="h-event vevent"> = <span class="p-name summary">Homebrew Website Club Meetup</span> = == Details == '''Homebrew Website Club Edinburgh''' === When === <span class=..."" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] Rick Mendes wrote a post that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon https://webmention.io/notification/lc1-qKqMl1x1JbeytE4BzQ
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Loqi [mention] Andi Galpern posted a rsvp-yes: "is attending." https://brid-gy.appspot.com/rsvp/facebook/688447421193285/555707837940351/499657186827699 that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-01 and https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-03-09-homebrew-website-club https://webmention.io/notification/W7Gqe_TANwRFepYMsgDiNw
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Loqi [indieweb] "Would nice to be able to POSSE @withknown to @minds https://www.minds.com/benborges #indieweb" by Ben Borges http://1-m.cc/2016/would-nice-to-be-able-to-posse-withknown-to-minds
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Loqi [indieweb] "Would nice to be able to POSSE @withknown to @minds https://www.minds.com/benborges #indieweb" by Ben Borges https://1-m.cc/2016/would-nice-to-be-able-to-posse-withknown-to-minds
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@benborges_ Would nice to be able to POSSE @withknown to @minds https://www.minds.com/benborges #indieweb (https://1-m.cc/s/2yIp7) (twitter.com/_/status/704696195873181696)
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petermolnar what is minds?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "minds" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10FY
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prtksxna petermolnar: https://www.minds.com/p/about seems like an open social network with a business model
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petermolnar what is minds?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "minds" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10FZ
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petermolnar prtksxna answer Loqi ;)
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prtksxna Ah! I didn't realize that your intention was to check for a mediawiki page.
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petermolnar both
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aaronpk initial testing from overnight and this morning shows that XRay + webmention.io are doing pretty well together.
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aaronpk I'm switching everyone over to the new version now!
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Loqi [indieweb] "@davewiner What about #indieweb comments/reactions ? just hoping one day comments will be where they are (#selfhosted) but successfully threaded" by Rick Mendes http://www.rmendes.net/2016/davewiner-what-about-indieweb-commentsreactions-just-hoping-one-day-comments
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@RikMende @davewiner What about #indieweb comments/reactions ? just hoping one day comments will be where they are… https://www.rmendes.net/2016/davewiner-what-about-indieweb-commentsreactions-just-hoping-one-day-comments (twitter.com/_/status/704716785367412736)
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aaronpk interesting... "I'm not interested in hosting other people's opinions, challenges or call-to-debates here in my own space." from Dave Winer http://scripting.com/liveblog/users/davewiner/2016/03/01/1088.html
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petermolnar turning off presenting them is fine; turning off the option of accepting (ping|webmention|trackback|etc) is not a good approach in my opinion
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tantek yes that is one of the indieweb options, to not host comments at all of course
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aaronpk sounds like he's turning off the comment form
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aaronpk so people have to respond in their own space
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tantek aaronpk: I think we declared that like 5 years ago ;)
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petermolnar that is totally fine, I think many of us did that already
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tantek and the keep a copy
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tantek s/the/then
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Loqi tantek meant to say: and then keep a copy
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tantek per LOCKSS
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tantek so I'm sure in a year or so dave will figure that part out too, he appears to be repeating IndieWeb ideas about 5 years later
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tantek e.g. POSSE as an idea was from 2010, named in 2011
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tantek and he basically began advocating it in 2015
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tantek as an idea / method
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gRegorLove What is LOCKSS?
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Loqi LOCKSS is an acronym for Lots Of Copies Keeps Stuff Safe, a mnemonic for the technique of keeping and encouraging many copies of things as a way of improving their longevity https://indiewebcamp.com/LOCKSS
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aaronpk fondly remembers the "own your comments" session of IndieWebCamp 2012
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@botminik It's 2am, you like Twitter broke IndieAuth be putting a short url into the rel=”me”... (twitter.com/_/status/704725389395038208)
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@mothersele it's not just about control and privacy. it's about choice. interoperability. no options = no democracy. #indieweb http://buytaert.net/winning-back-the-open-web (twitter.com/_/status/704729949169721344)
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snarfed grabs his sysadmin hat
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snarfed heads up kids, new ssl vulnerability. update your configs and openssl! https://drownattack.com/
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snarfed servers--
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Loqi servers has -4 karma
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gRegorLove Interesting anti-spam algorithm from adactio: https://adactio.com/journal/10307
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Loqi Spamduffing
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gRegorLove Haha
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Loqi rofl
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gRegorLove I'm still getting used to Loqi posting summaries of linkes
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Loqi yeah!
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@RikMende Getting Google AMP errors on my @withknown pro website but not with my #selfhosted Known sites #indieweb where do… https://www.rmendes.net/2016/getting-google-amp-errors-on-my-withknown-pro-website-but (twitter.com/_/status/704731700501155841)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Getting Google AMP errors on my @withknown pro website but not with my #selfhosted Known sites #indieweb where do I start to fix this?" by Rick Mendes http://www.rmendes.net/2016/getting-google-amp-errors-on-my-withknown-pro-website-but
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rMdes tantek, completely agree with you, in fact winer answer is well...stupid ?
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rMdes his tweets suggest that my suggestion to his closure of comments is the worst spammers ? maybe I missed something..or he did.
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@kevinmarks @davewiner @RikMende wow, that explains so much. At http://indiewebcamp.com we're documenting practices, not claiming inventions. (twitter.com/_/status/704733072625766400)
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kylewm KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 195 karma
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@RikMende RT @kevinmarks @davewiner @RikMende wow, that explains so much. At http://indiewebcamp.com we're documenting practices, not claiming inventions. (twitter.com/_/status/704734203792007169)
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@RikMende @davewiner in fact your reaction seem to show that you didn't even tried to pay attention to something that in NO WAY replace RSS #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/704735806414573568)
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gRegorLove rMdes: I don't think he meant comment spam on the blog. He's claiming the indieweb folks spam him anytime he talks about something "open," claiming we act like we invented everything good.
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gRegorLove Which I don't think is a very fair interpretation by him, but :shrug:
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Loqi [bridgy] Kevin Marks replied '@davewiner @RikMende wow, that explains so much. At indiewebcamp.com we're docum...' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/704733072625766400)
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rMdes gRegorLove, got it now..thanks
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rMdes I also don't think it's fair to feel harrassed by a simple user like me just hitting at him, with what sound to me a natural evolution
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gRegorLove Agreed.
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Loqi [indieweb] "munichagain:
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@RikMende @davewiner not mad, just informed, but here some simples facts, if you dare to click : https://indiewebcamp.com/timeline about credit to inventions (twitter.com/_/status/704740247389786112)
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@RikMende @davewiner well I agree with you, hence I (as a user of indieweb) ring the bell about it because it's ontopic https://twitter.com/RikMende/status/704741534839808001/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/704741534839808001)
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gRegorLove We have h-feed to RSS converters, right?
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snarfed yes!
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snarfed atom
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aaronpk heh
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snarfed http://granary-demo.appspot.com/?input=html
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aaronpk rss/atom, same thing, right? ;)
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gRegorLove Haha
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snarfed ducks
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snarfed ah instagram. their API (still!) doesn't tell you whether a user is private or public
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snarfed solution: switch to scraping. the embedded JSON in their HTML indicates it clearly :/
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snarfed instagram--
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Loqi instagram has 0 karma
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aaronpk haha ugh
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snarfed silos gonna silo
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gRegorLove Perhaps pointing to stuff like that would be more helpful if interacting with davewiner.
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snarfed feel free!
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gRegorLove Hah. No.
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gRegorLove But hypothetically, since the Twitter thread above he said "RSS is key."
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tantek.com edited /principles (+64) "/* Key Principles */ use a numbered list for reference purposes, since the list seems pretty stable for now" (view diff)
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snarfed wouldn't have guessed dave winer was a dj khaled fan
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KartikPrabhu on spam: https://adactio.com/journal/10307
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Loqi Spamduffing
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snarfed 🔑
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loqi.me created /work_without_JS (+18) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /without_JS (+18) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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gRegorLove snarfed: Hm, am I missing some mf2 that granary expects for parsing to Atom? https://granary-demo.appspot.com/url?input=html&output=atom&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fnotes%2F
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snarfed gRegorLove: maybe! or maybe granary bug. its mf2 => atom is decent, but definitely not perfect
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gRegorLove Oh, missing an h-feed name
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gRegorLove I'll investigate further and file a bug if it's not on my end.
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gRegorLove Yeah, pretty sure it's the lack of a feed name.
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aaronpk that's a really clever trick for preventing spam accounts
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aaronpk adactio++
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Loqi adactio has 23 karma
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snarfed gRegorLove: looks like it degraded ok otherwise though
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loqi.me created /RSS3 (+177) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi [bridgy] Dave Winer replied '@RikMende -- that's my major basis for interop. lots of stuff happening esp with...' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/timeline (https://twitter.com/davewiner/status/704740705613320192)
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Loqi [bridgy] Rick Mendes replied '@davewiner well I agree with you, hence I (as a user of indieweb) ring the bell ...' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/timeline (https://twitter.com/RikMende/status/704741534839808001)
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Loqi [bridgy] Dave Winer replied '@RikMende -- interop is what matters. the rest of it, dust in the wind. ;-)' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/timeline (https://twitter.com/davewiner/status/704740800408784896)
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aaronpk hey that's good, webmention.io is still working
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Loqi [bridgy] Rick Mendes replied '@davewiner I'v followed closely your adoption of FIA and It's good and interesti...' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/timeline (https://twitter.com/RikMende/status/704741033268125696)
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aaronpk :D
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Loqi [bridgy] Dave Winer replied '@RikMende -- okay I looked. if you ever want to do any dev work with me, RSS is ...' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/timeline (https://twitter.com/davewiner/status/704740568581152768)
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KartikPrabhu but it is not RSS!
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KartikPrabhu goes away again
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tantek what is FIA?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "FIA" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Fd
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Loqi [indieweb] "Tantek Celik, "Why We Need the IndieWeb", #PDF14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNmKO7Gr4TE cc @t" by Rick Mendes http://www.rmendes.net/2016/tantek-celik-why-we-need-the-indieweb-pdf14-watchvhnmko7gr4te-cc
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@RikMende Tantek Celik, "Why We Need the IndieWeb", #PDF14 https://www.youtube.com/ cc @t (https://www.rmendes.net/2016/tantek-celik-why-we-need-the-indieweb-pdf14-watchvhnmko7gr4te-cc) (twitter.com/_/status/704746939317813249)
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gregorlove.com created /sitemap.xml (+21) "r" (view diff)
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petermolnar the /timeline page doesn't have Trackbacks mentioned
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gRegorLove What is Trackback?
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Loqi TrackBack was a protocol for web sites to notify other web sites when they've posted a link to them (respectively) https://indiewebcamp.com/Trackback
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@indiewebcamp RT @d0gada @petermolnar #RSS is dying and I prefer #IndieWeb h-feed because it's part of web-site instead of an invisible… (https://dogada.org/e/118ZupYo13916) (twitter.com/_/status/704753055569354752)
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@indiewebcamp RT @jkphl Ugh. Captured all the topics my #indieweb @wke talk should cover. Exciting nights ahead. o_O https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/703611766807384064/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/704753135852453888)
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gRegorLove snarfed: Is it OK to use granary-demo.appspot.com linked from my site, even if it's just a "demo"?
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aaronpk needs to do that too
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snarfed gRegorLove: sure! plenty of other people do
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snarfed regrets the subdomain name
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snarfed sadly used to own granary.io and foolishly let it go
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@indiewebcamp RT @jkphl Some visualization ideas for my @wke #indieweb talk https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/703948681926594560/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/704753396092264448)
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aaronpk aw
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aaronpk well there's like a million other TLDs now
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gRegorLove Cool, thanks. Fixing my h-feed p-name makes granary work great!
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gRegorLove snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 205 karma
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snarfed glad to hear it!
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aaronpk granary.rocks
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@indiewebcamp RT @d0gada Thinking about #IndieWeb search spider to index my #MF2 h-feeds and provide results as #jsonp for static web-site. @bowtie_io have smth? (twitter.com/_/status/704753659737829377)
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gRegorLove granary.cloud
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tantek gRegorLove: if you can track down (no pun intended) when TrackBack was conceived / named / implemented, especially with citations, that would be a great addition to /timeline !
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gRegorLove Wait how did I get tasked with this? :)
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gRegorLove August 2002 according to wikipedia.
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gRegorLove Which cites https://movabletype.org/documentation/trackback/specification.html, but I don't see a date there.
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@indiewebcamp RT @RikMende Tantek Celik, "Why We Need the IndieWeb", #PDF14 https://www.youtube.com/ cc @t (https://www.rmendes.net/2016/tantek-celik-why-we-need-the-indieweb-pdf14-watchvhnmko7gr4te-cc) (twitter.com/_/status/704754858218291200)
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gRegorLove Got it. https://movabletype.org/documentation/trackback/beginners/ has a history section.
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tantek ah good - can add more to /TrackBack and then date items with one-line summary / [ citationURL ] to /timeline
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gregorlove.com edited /Trackback (+212) "History section" (view diff)
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petermolnar wow, the very last paragraph of that movable type page is quite interesting and forward pointing
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petermolnar if it was part of the 2002 specs
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petermolnar not in terms of 2016
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gregorlove.com edited /timeline (+75) "/* 2002 */ Trackback" (view diff)
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tantek which now makes me wonder when "trackback" was named (T) and before that introduced as a concept (C) since clearly it was used to describe Pingback
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tantek gRegorLove: could you add the citation to where you found that 2002-08 date to that line in /timeline ?
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tantek part of the point of /timeline is to capture verifiable citations for dates
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gRegorLove Sure. It's on /Trackback as well
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aaronpk this is great "For example, if you post your thoughts about a post on someone else’s weblog, you’ll want to post those thoughts on your own weblog, so that you are in control of them. Or, if you post a review on amazon.com, you may want this review to be syndicated on your own site."
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tantek e.g. see most (if not all?) the other lines on /timeline
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tantek aaronpk: funny thing is that it's describing PESOS
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gregorlove.com edited /timeline (+69) "/* 2002 */ citation" (view diff)
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aaronpk yeah
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gRegorLove Checking wayback machine on that paragraph
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tantek aaronpk: where's that citation?
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aaronpk bottom of https://movabletype.org/documentation/trackback/beginners/
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tantek gRegorLove: when you find out, that's worthy of listing / citing as (C): PESOS conceptually described
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gRegorLove 2008 is the earliest wayback machine at that URL (it probably moved there). The last paragraph is there. https://web.archive.org/web/20080820175759/http://www.movabletype.org/documentation/trackback/beginners/
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aaronpk hah cweiske archived that page in 2006 http://archive.cweiske.de/trackback/lifewiki/UseCases.html
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tantek cweiske++
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Loqi cweiske has 46 karma
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aaronpk here it is in 2003 http://web.archive.org/web/20030402132208/http://www.movabletype.org/trackback/beginners/
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tantek nice!
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aaronpk the trackbacks on that page are all 2003 so that must be when it was actually published
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gRegorLove MT 2.2 shipped 2002-06-26 with Trackback https://movabletype.org/documentation/appendices/release-notes/
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+164) "note to capture companies, products, services on the history page" (view diff)
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gRegorLove http://web.archive.org/web/20130721044817/http://www.movabletype.com/blog/2002/06/version-22-released.html
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tantek looks like a good citation for (T)(I) TrackBack term introduced and implemented
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gRegorLove editing
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gregorlove.com edited /timeline (+258) "/* 2002 */ first Trackback implementation" (view diff)
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snarfed tantek, whenever you get bored, feel free to try signing into bridgy with twitter again
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snarfed you should see a warning banner on your user page that your account is private
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Loqi I agree
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gregorlove.com edited /Trackback (+134) "/* History */ more specific dates/citation" (view diff)
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gRegorLove I didn't realize how close in time trackback and pingback were.
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Loqi [indieweb] "Comment on How I misunderstood an aspect of Indieweb by D.V.D." by D.V.D. https://petermolnar.eu/how-i-misunderstood-an-aspect-of-indieweb/#comment-11592
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cweiske dogada, hi
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petermolnar wat? how did that get into Loqi?
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tantek you said IndieWeb :)
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aaronpk Loqi sees all
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Loqi who, me?
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petermolnar but I sad that 1,5 years ago :)
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tantek the recent comment
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tantek gRegorLove++ for tracking down TrackBack origins
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petermolnar yep, that's what I wanted to write
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Loqi gRegorLove has 52 karma
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@gRegorLove ♫ Well I won’t trackback down, no I won’t trackback down #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/704765355609034752)
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tantek I was thinking more like Yakkity Yak, Don't Trackback
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gRegorLove Haha
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tantek.com edited /spam (+1507) "expand like spam a bit based on experience, and provide a method for stopping on silo accounts, start Spam Detection section" (view diff)
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tantek what is likespam?
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Loqi likespam is one of the things that motivated tantek to make his Instagram account private https://indiewebcamp.com/likespam
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tantek lol
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tantek ok ok
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tantek.com edited /likespam (+70) "link to get more info about likespam on the spam page, hopefully to encourage inline expansion of this page" (view diff)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Just published new working drafts of Webmention and Micropub!
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@aaronpk Just published new working drafts of Webmention and Micropub! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160301/ https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-micropub-20160301/ Thanks everyone! (twitter.com/_/status/704777221739671552)
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kylewm aaronpk: tantek: did my ActivityStreamPost post come up in SocialWG?
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tantek not at all because AS2 in general wasn't even on the agenda for today - so I just asked Evan for an update on it
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tantek maybe it's better to just collect it as a github issue on the AS2 spec - another implementation data point
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@AmrEldib RT @aaronpk Just published new working drafts of Webmention and Micropub! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160301/ https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-micropub-20160301/ Thanks everyone! (twitter.com/_/status/704779989699284992)
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@indiewebcamp RT @aaronpk Just published new working drafts of Webmention and Micropub! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160301/ https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-micropub-20160301/ Thanks everyone! (twitter.com/_/status/704781390030614529)
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@kevinmarks RT @aaronpk Just published new working drafts of Webmention and Micropub! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160301/ https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-micropub-20160301/ Thanks everyone! (twitter.com/_/status/704784849161179136)
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@anarchivist RT @aaronpk Just published new working drafts of Webmention and Micropub! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160301/ https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-micropub-20160301/ Thanks everyone! (twitter.com/_/status/704786165782683650)
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@ChrisAldrich RT @aaronpk Just published new working drafts of Webmention and Micropub! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160301/ https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-micropub-20160301/ Thanks everyone! (twitter.com/_/status/704787670405292032)
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@fakebaldur RT @aaronpk Just published new working drafts of Webmention and Micropub! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160301/ https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-micropub-20160301/ Thanks everyone! (twitter.com/_/status/704795945859485696)
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snarfed aaronpk: this reminded me of you. https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2016/03/01/update-on-connected-devices-innovation-process-four-projects-move-forward/
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Loqi Update on Connected Devices Innovation Process: Four Projects Move Forward
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gRegorLove aaronpk: Might remove the Nucleus CMS plugin from the Webmention draft. I don't use/maintain it anymore and the future of Nucleus is sketchy.
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aaronpk aw
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gRegorLove It still exists, though. :shrug:
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aaronpk snarfed: interesting
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@hughmcguire RT @aaronpk Just published new working drafts of Webmention and Micropub! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160301/ https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-micropub-20160301/ Thanks everyone! (twitter.com/_/status/704796441059987456)
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gregorlove.com edited /Webmention (+38) "/* Publishing Software */ +ProcessWire" (view diff)
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@stevefaulkner RT @aaronpk Just published new working drafts of Webmention and Micropub! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160301/ https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-micropub-20160301/ Thanks everyone! (twitter.com/_/status/704799001581903872)
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gregorlove.com edited /Nucleus (+249) "/* Indieweb Plugins */ Noted my end of use/maintenance of the code" (view diff)
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tantek good to be transparent about that. thanks gRegorLove
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@elpep RT @aaronpk Just published new working drafts of Webmention and Micropub! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160301/ https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-micropub-20160301/ Thanks everyone! (twitter.com/_/status/704800253657092096)
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@katyemoe RT @aaronpk Just published new working drafts of Webmention and Micropub! https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160301/ https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-micropub-20160301/ Thanks everyone! (twitter.com/_/status/704801044816142338)
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tantek whoa just noticed https://www.facebook.com/events/555707837940351/ but where's the indie event hmm...
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tantek catches up on the kylewm.com home page and sees some pretty funny stuff :)
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aaronpk oops. I broke my webmention sending last week
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tantek it seems I have to send TWO webmentions to Known instances for them to see them
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Loqi [mention] Marcos Martinez posted a rsvp-yes: "is attending." https://brid-gy.appspot.com/rsvp/facebook/688447421193285/555707837940351/979393412116413 that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-03-09-homebrew-website-club https://webmention.io/notification/jOQk3VDUc8RGvW-pKKrmeA
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tantek latest example is http://www.rmendes.net/2016/so-you-are-actually-posseing-video-right-to-twitter-by which I replied to here: http://tantek.com/2016/060/t9/falcon-webmention-posse-video
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Loqi [Rick Mendes] so you are actually POSSEing video right to twitter ? by the look of your post is that even possible ? #amazed #indieweb
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] @RikMende my @Falcon code uses #Webmention to Brid.gy Publish to POSSE video from my site to Facebook, Flickr, Twitter
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tantek and sent a webmention at the time
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tantek so here goes the second one, manually
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tantek and there it is
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tantek now it's showing up
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gRegorLove tantek: I've noticed weird behavior sending wm to werd.io before.
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tantek alright, I'm filing a bug
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gRegorLove And I don't think I got one yesterday from kylewm, unless my logging failed.
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aaronpk the good news is it wasn't telegraph that was broken, i had just entered the wrong URL to Telegraph in my site's settings!
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Loqi [indieweb] "koest.lich.es #14" by Stefan http://eay.cc/2016/koest-lich-es-14/
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Loqi [indieweb] "koest.lich.es #14:" http://eay.li/2s4
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tantek gRegorLove: please add your notes about weird behavior sending wm to werd.io to https://github.com/idno/Known/issues/1340
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tantek BTW one nice side-effect of going silo-private: no duplicate silo-copies of comments on people's indieweb sites that are receiving backfeed from Bridgy!
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aaronpk hehe
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tantek people's indieweb posts only see my public reply from my site
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aaronpk i should be de-duping those now!
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tantek and then their POSSE copy on Twitter gets threaded with the POSSE copy of my reply there
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Loqi +1
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tantek what is silo-private
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "silo-private" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Fe
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tantek silo-private is the practice of turning all your [[silo]] profiles into [[private account]]s or to publish [[private post]]s by default to direct people to view and share links to your original indieweb posts instead of [[POSSE]] silo copies.
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loqi.me created /silo-private (+269) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-01/line/1456873502641 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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snarfed aaronpk: whoa, you now de-dupe incoming wms across indie orig and posse copies?
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snarfed using u-url?
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aaronpk and the syndication url
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snarfed oh right
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snarfed very cool
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snarfed not sure if anyone else is doing that. maybe gRegorLove, kylewm, ben_thatmustbeme?
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snarfed glad it's doable!
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aaronpk i *think* i have it all working right, but there might be one situation it's not working right yet
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gRegorLove Nope, been too lazy to work on de-dupe so far :)
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aaronpk the easy case is if i get a WM from someone's site and it has a syndication URL that matches an existing webmention, I show the canonical one instead
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aaronpk actually no that's the harder one. so yeah i think it's working
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aaronpk easy case is first receiving the canonical one with the syndication URL, then you can associate the syndicated one when it comes in later
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tantek.com edited /silo-private (+895) "expand dfn, why, how, indieweb examples, see also" (view diff)
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tantek ok I think I'm envious now of local hashtag results e.g. http://www.rmendes.net/tag/indieweb
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Loqi [Rick Mendes] Happy to enjoy @letsencrypt TLS certificates on my blog/site #indieweb - the secure web just got easier to put in practice !
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tantek ^^^ huh?
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tantek aaronpk: I feel like you were asking about this problem before :)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+87) "/* linked hashtags */ note how nicely Known does local tag results as an example to be inspired by" (view diff)
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aaronpk what problem?
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