#indiewebcamp 2015-09-04

2015-09-04 UTC
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KevinMarks
I don't think we have a follow one yet
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kylewm.com
edited /The_Grid (+386) "/* Criticism */ Don't pay much attention to this dumb article."
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snarfed
kylewm++
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Loqi
kylewm has 231 karma
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kylewm
snarfed: you are loading me up with karma today
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snarfed
karma laundering
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tantek
KevinMarks++
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Loqi
KevinMarks has 159 karma
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tantek
latest js;dr http://www.rei.com/s/all-deals - "It appears that your browser is blocking JavaScript. \\ REI.com requires JavaScript to function properly. If you want to search for or purchase items on our site, please configure your browser to use Javascript." because of course how would search and displaying product information work with plain HTML? perhaps they could learn from Amazon.
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tantek
and when you do load it with JS - it's SOOOOOOO slow
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tantek
good late evening #indiewebcamp!
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KartikPrabhu
good very very late evening
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tantek
indeed!
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jeena.net
edited /Webmention (-5) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ updated to reality"
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Loqi
[bridgy] Brian Keith Davis replied '@kevinmarks But, looking at the link provided seems to be updated from current formats. I will look at those to see if can go into BE' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/microformats (https://twitter.com/kbdavis07/status/639717520224620544)
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Loqi
[bridgy] Brian Keith Davis replied '@kevinmarks but the question at hand though was Rtur asking if they are needed in BE, otherwise deleting them from BE' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/microformats (https://twitter.com/kbdavis07/status/639717150320541696)
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Loqi
[bridgy] Brian Keith Davis replied '@kevinmarks hi, I did not post that 😀 just an auto feed of all BlogEngine posts.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/microformats (https://twitter.com/kbdavis07/status/639716889006993409)
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@thesourcelab
RT @stevepurkiss: New Blog Post: Dropping in on the Brighton Homebrew Website Club http://purkiss.com/blog/steve-purkiss/2015/08/13/dropping-in-on-the-brighton-homebrew-website-club #Brighton #Drupal #indieweb #ilov…
(twitter.com/_/status/639739401510084608)
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acegiak
anyone here had a look at tox?
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petermolnar
acegiak, I did
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petermolnar
working, but nothing impressive
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acegiak
petermolnar: I just want someone to solve the IM problem already
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petermolnar
give me a few words on the IM problem, please
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acegiak
to me the IM problem is the lack of a ubiquitous open standard for live communication that doesn't suck
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acegiak
like XMPP should solve these problems for us but something goes horribly wrong in the ux
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acegiak
I think the answer at this point is actually to go back to xmpp
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myfreeweb
acegiak: matrix.org? they're working on an open standard that uses HTTPS/JSON instead of XML crap & does more than XMPP (group chats aren't tied to a single server) -- there's a micropub integration already https://matrix.org/blog/2015/07/29/micropub-support-as-an-application-service/
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Jeena
hm apart from Java there is no microformats parser written in a language for desktop applications
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tbrb
http://microformats.org/wiki/parsers There looks to be a few? There's a .NET one that looks to be maybe out of date, but there's also the python one
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voxpelli
Jeena: "desktop applications"? Node.js is used for many new desktop applications and there's a library for that one
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tommorris
Jeena: we probably need a C/C++ parser at some point. and a .NET one. also, you can write desktop apps in Python. :-)
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M-kegan
voxpelli : "Node.js is used for many new desktop application" --- really? What package is used for the UI?
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M-kegan
there a wxNode or something?
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M-kegan
huh, well would you look at that
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M-kegan
didn't know that, thanks!
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M-kegan
so it's basically like a browser, but with relaxed security so you can actually do more useful things?
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M-kegan
from what I'm reading
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voxpelli
basically, and it has node.js built in
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aaronpk
several "desktop" apps are really just node.js backends with a web frontent
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M-kegan
humm... but everything shares the same thread? :(
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voxpelli
M-kegan: well, the main-thread, as that's how everything node.js or js in general works
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voxpelli
there are likely ways to get extra threads
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M-kegan
I guess it depends on what you're doing, but for heavy cpu operations you're going to be screwing over UI responsiveness
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M-kegan
which is sub-optimal..
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M-kegan
I know node supports a cluster(?) module, but never tried it
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aaronpk
i have a feeling Slack is written in something like this, since the desktop and web clients are virtually identical
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voxpelli
then one would have to handle it as one does on an ordinary web page :) push it to some kind of worker och just divide it into such small chunks that the UI can steal back controll often enough
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voxpelli
aaronpk: Slack uses Electron
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M-kegan
I guess
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@kevinmarks
@kbdavis07 that sounds great - indiewebify.me is a useful tool. Ask in http:///irc/2015-08-16 if you have questions about what to do
(twitter.com/_/status/639843123590397952)
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tantek
^^^ heh another URL redirect bug?
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tantek
Loqi, you gotta know when to stop following redirects. Or at least handle relative redirects!
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Loqi
i'm sure me gotta know when to stop following redirects. Or at least handle relative redirects!
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tantek
lololol. wat
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tantek
KevinMarks++
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Loqi
KevinMarks has 160 karma
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aaronpk
well that's odd, look at the date... 2015-08-16
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aaronpk
it's like Loqi cached the redirect from then
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Loqi
grins profusely
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aaronpk
hm, when following redirects, should Loqi stop at a "302 Moved Temporarily" and report the URL before that?
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tantek
what is BlogEngine?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "BlogEngine" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102Q
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tantek
aaronpk: sounds reasonable
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aaronpk
so the final URL shown should be /irc/today
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tantek
?beta#bottom
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aaronpk
ah the URL un-shortening library I am using does its own caching
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KevinMarks
is there a way to tell woodwind etc to follow that we can use as an indie action ?
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tantek
no one has had an itch to implement it on the consuming side yet
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tantek
thus I'm not sure it's worth designing/deploying something that won't get used/tested in practice
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aaronpk
consuming side being woodwind?
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KevinMarks
well, I have an itch with the xoxo people list
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tantek
or your own site, if your own site has an integrated reader
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KevinMarks
but andy said not to clone it outside their login as he doesn't want co-ordinated trolls to get it
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tantek
KevinMarks: what end user benefit will you get?
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tantek
just adding markup to something without a use-case is not an end user benefit
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tantek
it's just, as you might say, faffing around
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KevinMarks
i can click follow on someone interesting site and they are in my woodwind
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tantek
then you need to convince (or submit a pull request to) Woodwind also
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tantek
I mean, is kylewm open to making Woodwind a webaction handler / endpoint?
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tantek
Woodwind would have to implement /indie-config
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tantek
KevinMarks: perhaps start by capturing this scenario / the pieces you need to implement to make it work in a new section in /follow#Brainstorming ?
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KevinMarks
I was thinking 'oh, should add twitter follow intents' and then thought 'also indiereader follow intents'
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tantek
KevinMarks, the other thing is, all the other indie-config webactions are designed to work through your personal site, so "follow" should too.
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aaronpk
no, the other web actions are designed to work with whatever endpoint you set up. doesn't have to be your site
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tantek
then if you decide to use an external reader, your personal site should "forward" (whatever that means) or "delegate" that "follow" to your /reader
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tantek
aaronpk: no, you only get one
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voxpelli
SubToMe should have lots of endpoints for readers documented
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tantek
to handle them all
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voxpelli
and +1 on Woodwind not being an indie-config provider – an endpoint for following is enough
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voxpelli
And would work with eg SubToMe as well
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tantek
KevinMarks: for now, we don't have this need/itch well documented/figured out - so rather than hastily hack something that is likely fragile / not thought through, I'd say capture the need *first* on the wiki, and for now don't bother putting something hacky/untested on xoxo's markup
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tantek
e.g. file an issue on Woodwind etc.
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KevinMarks
hm, woodwind has a get/post /subscribe method
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KevinMarks
(duh, it is the 1st thing you see in a new install)
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tantek
KevinMarks: right - that's how you could implement "delegate" via handling the indie-config webaction on your own site
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tantek
I don't think Woodwind should be the indie-config handler
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kylewm
Woodwind does register itself with subtome fwiw
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tantek
a provider yes
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tantek
because Woodwind itself has webaction buttons for like, reply
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KevinMarks
ah, got it
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tantek
which your website should handle
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tantek
KevinMarks - easiest thing for expedience is to use SubToMe then, since Woodwind already supports it
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tantek
that is, to add SubToMe to the XOXO markup
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tantek
does SubToMe markup work with a twitter follow fallback? or does it always take over regardless?
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KartikPrabhu
what is SubToMe?
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Loqi
SubToMe is a button content publishers can put on their sites which enables users to subscribe to their feed in whatever reader they choose — sort of a universal follow button https://indiewebcamp.com/SubToMe
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tantek
would also be a good test for SubToMe
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tantek
if the Andy's or anyone else likes it or complains about it, that will be good feedback
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aaronpk
i still don't understand how SubToMe works
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tantek
me neither. but presumably kylewm does!
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voxpelli
aaronpk: it's a centralized indie-config for feed follows that saves config in localstorage basically
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tantek
voxpelli: whoa - that's the clearest explanation I've heard yet - could you add that to /SubToMe ?
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aaronpk
oh yes okay
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aaronpk
voxpelli++
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Loqi
voxpelli has 46 karma
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tantek
what is follow?
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Loqi
follow is a common button in silo UIs (like Twitter) that adds updates from that profile (typically a person) to the stream shown in an integrated reader, and sometimes creates a follow post either in the follower's stream ("… followed …" or "… is following …") thus visible to their followers, and/or in the notifications of the user being followed ("… followed you") https://indiewebcamp.com/follow
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KartikPrabhu
how reliable is localStorage for these things? If it gets "full" are older things deleted?
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voxpelli
tantek: not at a computer right now
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aaronpk
i think localstorage throws an error if you write to it when it's full
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aaronpk
and apps have a chance to request more space iirc
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voxpelli
I think a localstorage backed indie-config could make sense actually – as a low threshold way to get started
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tantek.com
edited /follow (+511) "brainstorming Follow Webaction, see also subtome"
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tantek
here's a start KevinMarks, please expand: https://indiewebcamp.com/follow#Follow_Webaction
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tantek.com
edited /SubToMe (+11) "/* See Also */ follow"
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KevinMarks
hm, the js button doesn't quite fit as that is a 'sub to the containing page' one
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tantek
huh, I just saw a "Save" button on FB that when you hover over it says "Click to save. Only you can see the things you save." is that new?
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tantek
what is Save
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Save" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102R
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tantek
Save is a private bookmark webaction button that [[Facebook]] shows on [[link-preview]]s of [[venue]]s with the hovertext "Click to save. Only you can see the things you save."
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loqi.me
created /Save (+203) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-04/line/1441387493312 and dfn added by tantek"
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tantek.com
edited /Save (+77) "see also, linky"
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tantek
screenshot coming
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tantek.com
edited /Save (+89) "p-summary and screenshot"
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snarfed
hi all! just fyi, i'm hoping to work on bridgy's new mention-vs-POSSE logic this weekend (https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/51#issuecomment-136792750). i'm mentioning it here because lots of people have been interested.
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snarfed
if you have an opinion on it, feel free to weigh in or follow along over the next few days!
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tantek
ooh! I'll be following (as much as I'm online)
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tantek
FB use of /Save in that way echoes what I've been saying is a distinction between different actual uses/intentions of "Share" in practice, save=private (self only), send=semi-private (to one or a few people only - whitelist), publish=public
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snarfed
still hoping to hear at least one or two explicit "yes" votes on the logic in that link before i start. i'll give it one more day :P
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KevinMarks
right tantek - there is also one on events that is like a private maybe
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tantek
no it is not private nor maybe
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KevinMarks
I meant in utility - I use maybe to put an event in my fb calendar in case I want to go (ie if i'm in sf for some other reason)
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tantek
it's "interested"
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tantek
not "maybe"
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KevinMarks
save also puts it in the fb events tab so would work in a similar way, without notifying the event organiser et al
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tantek
it's not private - note screenshot of it showing up
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KevinMarks
'only you can see' is private in FB terms as in 'not published to toters unless they pay FB to target ads on'
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KevinMarks
s/titers/others/
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aaronpk
"customer"
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tantek
woot!
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Loqi
woot
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tantek
"user service"
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tantek
"community service"? oh wait that's different ;)
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tantek.com
edited /marchitecture (+169) "cite willnorris article on openstack in php in attempt to make it practical"
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tantek.com
edited /OpenID (+482) "/* Criticism */ Poor Usability In Practice"
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tantek.com
edited /monoculture (+247) "/* Blog posts */ add benwerd "Building a distributed social network? You’re doing it wrong""
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aaronpk
great post by ben
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aaronpk
heh, the first comment is from one of the projects "no we're different we swear"
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aaronpk
project website is now a spam site
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tantek
yeah that was my Wednesday rabbithole - benwerd's blog posts are too darn good!
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aaronpk
creator's website is running on wordpress
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[kevinmarks]
Google G at tweet length http://svgur.com/s/q
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aaronpk
you should probably tweet that :)
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Loqi
agreed.
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KevinMarks
heh, twitter card parser rejects SVG in comment
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KevinMarks
even though it's escaped properly
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KevinMarks
hm, twitter crops preview images
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KevinMarks
I should make my PNGifier force the ratio to what fb/twitter want
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Loqi
definitely
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KevinMarks
woo, twitter cards and fb cards for svgur.com
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KevinMarks
though only if there is a description
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KevinMarks
hm, how did I get whitelisted? did I ask a while ago?
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[kevinmarks]
well, that was a good double nerdswipe
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aaronpk
wow just noticed that Slack has a built-in blog post editor
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aaronpk
huh I need to pay attention better. apparently CSS has had calc() in it for a while
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aaronpk
this whole time i've been like "whyyyy can't I say 100% - 60px!"
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: be sure to provide default in case browsers don't support calc
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aaronpk
apparently there are like 2
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aaronpk
IE8 whatev, old Android whatev
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KartikPrabhu
dislikes the new # URLs on canIuse
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aaronpk
the old ones still work http://caniuse.com/calc
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KartikPrabhu
yes that's how I got to that page :P
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aaronpk
yeah me too lol
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KartikPrabhu
though I have moslty abandoned px units in CSS
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KartikPrabhu
everything is %, em or rem
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KevinMarks
how about vh and vw units
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KevinMarks
what's going on that I should tell gillmor gang about?
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KartikPrabhu
KevinMarks: can't recall that I use vw and vh much. They're far too "global"
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KevinMarks
handy for the hovercard
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KartikPrabhu
possibly. not claiming they aren't useful. I haven't used them on my site yet
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tantek
is assuming rhiaro is organizing a HWC Edi 2015-09-10
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KevinMarks
arguing with arrington about app bubble
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@myfreeweb
Receiving Webmentions should work now… (not deduplication or updating yet). (https://unrelenting.technology/notes/2015-09-04-20-50-46)
(twitter.com/_/status/639903486889586688)
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aaronpk
thinking about doing a pretty heavy reworking of Monocle
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snarfed
hoo boy sounds like a big project
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aaronpk
kind of
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aaronpk
i'm trying to break it down into small piece
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snarfed
at least if you want to really get the UX to a point where you'd switch to it entirely
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aaronpk
the fact is, I'm still not using Monocle as much as I would like
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snarfed
yup you have been spinning off microservices a lot
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snarfed
totally. i don't try to computerize my notifs as much as you do, but in terms of reading, i'm definitely happy i've managed to get it all into my reader (newsblur)
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snarfed
took a while to knock off the G+ long pole, but finally done
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aaronpk
it occurred to me that it is currently far easier for me to add random things to my IRC setup than it is to Monocle, which means 1) something needs to change about Monocle to flip that, and 2) I will not be able to move off IRC until then
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snarfed
yup, good self awareness
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snarfed
i don't envy you the task of getting monocle to that point
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aaronpk
yes, and building essentially Yet Another Chat Client seems kind of silly
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aaronpk
I might try to sketch some of this out this weekend when i'm (nearly) off the grid
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kylewm
don't call it Yacc please
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aaronpk
nah it's still gonna be Monocle
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kylewm
I hate "YA-" projects except I think it's hilarious when they eventually become the de-facto best or only one
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tantek
e.g. YAML
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aaronpk
haha yeah
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tantek
kylewm: exception YaYY - where the first Y does not stand for "yet"
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Loqi
yay!
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[kevinmarks]
Is this where a "follow" webaction gets involved, Aaron?
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aaronpk
that's like v4
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aaronpk
a lot more foundation to lay first
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tantek
KevinMarks: can you add more to https://indiewebcamp.com/follow#Follow_Webaction expanding what you in particular mean / want by "where a follow webaction gets involved"?
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