#indiewebcamp 2015-09-02

2015-09-02 UTC
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gRegorLove Jeena: Your events page looks great!
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gRegorLove jeena++
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Loqi jeena has 24 karma
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kylewm asking about an alternative to "See Original" links when POSSEing to FB on SO http://stackoverflow.com/questions/32343041/publish-via-facebook-api-how-to-include-link-to-original-like-instagram-does
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kylewm woohoo, I'm the top question asker for posts tagged "indieweb"
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[snarfed] kylewm++
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Loqi kylewm has 228 karma
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KevinMarks hm. making a bit of progress http://www.unmung.com/hovertest
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mblaney buildyourownCMS++ because it's fun!
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Loqi buildyourownCMS has 1 karma
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mblaney I miss the good conversations due to timezone differences... :-(
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mblaney I started my own CMS because I wanted the chance to try out ideas, don't think you'll ever sell starting one any other way.
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mblaney I found indiewebcamp later, so I guess I'm now retro-fitting indieweb ideas to my existing project.
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KartikPrabhu mblaney: that's why we have good logs :)
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mblaney so I can feel like I missed out? :-P
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KartikPrabhu haha no so you can catch up :)
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KartikPrabhu I catch up quite often too
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mblaney haha well there's always too much to catch up on, but it's interesting.
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[kevinmarks] We're all doing that mblaney - because the ideas come from collaboration and then we change our sites too
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mblaney good to know kevinmarks, feel like I've got a lot of catching up to do though.
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Loqi [mention] Tom liked a post that linked to a photo: "Content-Security-Policy" http://indiewebcamp.com/Content-Security-Policy#Why_bother_if_attacker_can_hack_CSP_too https://webmention.io/notification/w9YyhvWg2URYrMlJr0ACwg
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KevinMarks OK, hovercards are now well-cached
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snarfed KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 157 karma
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kylewm does anyone else use rel=syndication? and would anyone else's code be confused by rel=syndication appearing on every post in a composite feed?
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kylewm (use rel=syndication in consuming code I mean)
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KevinMarks I manual ad it to posse'd copies
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kylewm i was debating whether to tell adactio that i would like it if he removed rel=syndication from his composite feeds :)
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kylewm i decided to tell him, and hope it doesn't make me a microformats pedant
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tantek that sounds pretty funny kylewm
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tantek.com edited /HTTPS (+485) "/* Criticism */ subheads, add Maintenance tax and site fragility based on kylewm tweet" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] When did h-card get a p-summary?
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tantek KevinMarks: where did you see it? it's not spec'd
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card#Properties
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[kevinmarks] On your site
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tantek huh
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tantek touche
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[kevinmarks] You have a note and a summary
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[kevinmarks] http://www.unmung.com/hovercard?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com
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tantek.com created /performance (+578) "stub with a indieweb centric dfn, note js frameworks, see also" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] I made the hovercard work for twitter by redirecting to the intent http://www.unmung.com/hovercard?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com/t
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tantek KevinMarks: I have no idea why the p-summary is there
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tantek removed
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tantek.com edited /Medium (+174) "/* Criticism */ Feeling Like An Unwelcome Guest on medium.com" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Was it meant for the h-feed?
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[kevinmarks] this new caching trick works for your site now
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tantek.com edited /Firefox_Share (+330) "Additional Open Source Examples / Diaspora, perhaps use their UI as inspiration for a Micropub share provider" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Ooh, I should put hovercards on the webmentions on my site
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[kevinmarks] Which means I should get templating actually working.
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colintedford.com edited /IRC_People (+48) "colintedford pic" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /Template:colintedford (-18) "new pic" (view diff)
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pfefferle good morning all
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Loqi [mention] Kevin Marks wrote a post that linked to "hovercard" http://indiewebcamp.com/hovercard https://webmention.io/notification/EtPsN3FmWz12nX7Kjs4X8g
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GWG Good morning
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petermolnar good morning
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GWG petermolnar: How are things?
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petermolnar I've just got back from holiday, so unfortunately I'm occupied with my daytime job quite a bit
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petermolnar how is your hand? if I recall correctly you've had an injury, preventing you from coding
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GWG petermolnar: Herniated cervical disc, pressing on the nerves leading to my right arm, leading to symptoms of carpal tunnel syndrome.
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GWG A little better. Still have to limit myself
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GWG Put out some code though
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Loqi [mention] someone wrote a post that linked to https://webmention.io/notification/A1eyWBd4UeQLPV_A6Sz4UA
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GWG petermolnar: As a wordpress user, how do you post Indieweb content types to your site?
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petermolnar originally with a bunch of nasty hacks, basically a massive switch-case at various hooks checking for post meta
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petermolnar after that I've tried your plugin
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petermolnar but beside the built-in post formats
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petermolnar and that was an overkill, so I ended up with a custom taxonomy and an additional custom box to handle replies/likes
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GWG petermolnar: I'm trying to write the why my plugin vs other solutions, none of which are not bad.
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petermolnar but to be hone I feel like the whole thing is a mess
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GWG none of which are bad, excuse me
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petermolnar with this taxonomy the totally unneeded post formats are cleaned, but I still have both tags and categories and this
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GWG But you get annoyed with WordPress regularly
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petermolnar true :)
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petermolnar the thing is: I stil haven't found a clean replacement yet
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petermolnar that has all the functions I actually use in WP
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GWG Well, I think I will stick around. I've made an investment
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petermolnar I had a strong urge to switch to grav, but:
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petermolnar - the media handling is gd based, stripping the metadata which I - in opposite of all recommendations - intend to keep in all sizes, since I mostly post my own photos and exif is important
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petermolnar - it doesn't have features - yet - like scheduled posts which I also use
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petermolnar - and I'd have to do a hell lot of work to rewrite my theme :(
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voxpelli !tell aaronpk I have an almost ready fetch+parse Lambda method that was built and used in production at Bloglovin (and open sourced after that)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed.org edited /salmentions (+256) "salmon" (view diff)
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snarfed bridgy is nearing 2M responses processed. time to start planning the party!
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snarfed joining http://flickstagram.org/ in the 2M+ club
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voxpelli snarfed++ :)
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Loqi snarfed has 135 karma
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tantek what is grav?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/grav
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tantek.com edited /grav (+81) "linky linky, see also" (view diff)
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tantek let's try that again
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tantek what is grav?
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Loqi Grav is a flat-file CMS built on PHP, Twig and YAML and Markdown https://indiewebcamp.com/grav
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tantek.com created /flat-file (+26) "r" (view diff)
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tantek What is Twig?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/TWiG
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tantek somehow I have a feeling that's not the same as is mentioned in /Grav
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tantek.com moved /TWiG to /This_Week_in_Google "use long name for disambig"
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tantek.com edited /TWiG (-15) "r to all lower case" (view diff)
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jrenslin this would make more sense i guess
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jrenslin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twig_%28template_engine%29
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tantek.com created /twig (+241) "disambiguation page" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Twig (+18) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-105) "revert to next being Edinburgh" (view diff)
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tantek Bridgy++ that's quite amazing snarfed!
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Loqi Bridgy has 23 karma
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tantek what is YAML?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "YAML" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102H
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jrenslin.de created /Twig_(template_engine) (+166) "Created page with "Twig is a template engine for PHP. == Used by == [[grav]] == Resources == [http://twig.sensiolabs.org/ Project website] [http://www.example.com Twit on Wikipedia]"" (view diff)
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jrenslin.de edited /Twig_(template_engine) (+9) "Marked as stub" (view diff)
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jrenslin.de edited /twig (-52) (view diff)
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jrenslin.de edited /Twig_(template_engine) (+40) (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Twig_(template_engine) (+17) "dfn" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /TWiG (+15) "redirect this capitalization" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /This_Week_in_Google (+112) "linky, see also, fix dfn" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /This_Week_in_Google (+57) "see disambig page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /twig (+29) "see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com deleted /TWiG "want Loqi to find /twig instead"
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tantek.com edited /twig (-1) "-r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Twig (+18) "see if this works" (view diff)
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KevinMarks getting ads for The Grid in my facebook stream
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tantek what is The Grid?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Grid" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102J
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cleverdevil the ultimate silo :)
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cleverdevil THE SILO OF SILOS
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aaronpk heh Loqi doesn't include "The" when searching for a page
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Loqi aaronpk: voxpelli left you a message 5 hours, 28 minutes ago: I have an almost ready fetch+parse Lambda method that was built and used in production at Bloglovin (and open sourced after that) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-02/line/1441197344553
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tantek aaronpk: even when capitalized?
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aaronpk that'd be a good check
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voxpelli aaronpk: btw, regarding my note there, here's the code: https://github.com/voxpelli/metadataparser
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voxpelli And my WebMention endpoint extends it with Microformat parsing: https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-webmentions/blob/master/lib/classes/metadataparser.js
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aaronpk cool I will take a look!
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voxpelli Bonus: It enables fallback on non-microformat metadata by having a fully compliant og-parser
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voxpelli I currently don't run it on Lambda for my endpoint though as I've got plenty of power left in my Heroku dyno
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tantek what is Lambda?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Lambda" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102L
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aaronpk Lambda is a service from Amazon Web Services that runs individual functions of code rather than running a server http://aws.amazon.com/lambda/
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loqi.me created /Lambda (+169) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-09-02/line/1441217964622 and dfn added by aaronpk" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk i really like the idea of using Lambda for dealing with parsing external resources since I don't have to worry about resources or security of my own servers making a bunch of requests to random servers
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voxpelli indeed – at Bloglovin we batched the requests into groups of 20 or so (or if it took longer than X time we sent the batch anyway) and fetched+parsed them in parallel on Lambda, sending them back individually over SQS
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voxpelli and made it as a progressive enhancement where it could just as well run in-process as be sent to Lambda – same code in both places
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KevinMarks that sounds neat
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tantek indeed - quite clever.
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Jeena what is Lambda?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/Lambda
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Jeena hm
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aaronparecki.com edited /Lambda (+1) "." (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu what is salmention?
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Loqi Salmentions are a way to propagate comments upstream by sending a webmention from a reply post to the original post when the reply recieves a comment https://indiewebcamp.com/salmention
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KartikPrabhu Are slametions supposed to be sent only for reply posts?
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KartikPrabhu what about likes, and all that?
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aaronpk i would think you'd send a webmention any time your post is updated, whether that "update" occurs because you display a new comment, like, etc
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: no I meant, should I send a salmention only to the post I replied too when I get an update; or resend a webmention to any link I have linked to?
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KartikPrabhu example: K liked a post by A, then C replies to K's post. Should K send an update webmention to A's post?
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aaronpk a reply to a like? I guess the question is whether A would want to do something with that reply
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KartikPrabhu yes. but there is no way for K to know if A does something with that.
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aaronpk if you take the example of RTing things on twitter, then the answer is yes
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aaronpk there's no way to know if someone is going to accept or display or handle a webmention when you send one, but that doesn't stop you from sending them anyway
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KartikPrabhu interesting I ask this for a bridgy issue https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/51#issuecomment-136792750
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voxpelli everything that received a webmention on creation should receive one on an update I think
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aaronpk that sounds reasnoable
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KartikPrabhu ok. first must figure out how to send auto-webmentions in my backend
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voxpelli KartikPrabhu: working on Salmentions?
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KartikPrabhu first working on how to send webmentions automatically
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aaronpk a webmention sending service is another great candidate for a Lambda function
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voxpelli KartikPrabhu: ok, I'm doing the reverse – first retrieving Salmentions from others and then sending them – working on that right now
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: will it automatically poll for new things?
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aaronpk that would be a separate piece
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aaronpk the function would take a URL with an h-entry as the input, find all the links in the content, and send webmentions to each
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aaronpk separately I could make a thing that polls a feed for new h-entrys
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KartikPrabhu hmm I already have that :)
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voxpelli aaronpk: would be pretty wasteful I think though as the lambda-process would spend most of its time waiting for external connections – unless one can batch it into bigger batches it's probably not worth it for any other reason than possible security wins
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voxpelli oh, if one did the parsing as well, then sure
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aaronpk i guess it would be a couple of lambda functions actually, one to parse the original page, and a separate function for actually sending each webmention
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aaronpk going through this massive rewrite is giving me a great opportunity to spin off more microservices to avoid having to write everything again and again
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Jeena Damn, it doesn't help to just own your notes https://jeena.net/notes/423 you even need to copy the links you link to because two weeks later the note becomes meaningless
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KartikPrabhu err what?
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aaronpk Jeena: yeah, that's one of the reasons I show the contents of posts I "like" so that I have an archive copy of them
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Jeena but even with videos?
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aaronpk no I dont download the actual media (yet)
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KartikPrabhu Jeena: oh of course. Youtube yanks videos all the time. I've had that happen
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Jeena yeah, some day I will need to do copies too
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KartikPrabhu also Downloading and displaying removed Youtube videos might be considered violation of ToS
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tantek archive them anyway, whether you display them or not. you can decide that later.
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aaronpk agreed
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KartikPrabhu but to Jeena 's point his note will still be broken
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@benwerd From 2010: "Distributed sharing should be infrastructure that can be plugged into any kind of software." http://benwerd.com/2010/06/04/building-a-distributed-social-network-youre-doing-it-wrong/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/639157552991703040)
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KevinMarks using the appengine taskqueue is pretty neat
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KevinMarks I changed the unmung fetch and parse model to use that with memcache to be much more responsive
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tantek ooh, classic benwerd post(s)
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tantek re: Jeena's "broken" note - the note still "works", just suboptimal that the video is not viewable
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tantek Is there anyway for users to challenge copyright claims made on others' videos?
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aaronpk afaik only the video author can do that
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aaronpk which reminds me, i should go check on that claim i filed
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tantek basically, crowdsource the evaluation of the claim, and make that public
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tantek is there a way to ping archive.org with a Youtube video URL to make them archive it?
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aaronpk they matched 1 minute 50 seconds of a video as being a random song i've never heard of but the video is literally silent at that point
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tantek can you document this incident publicly? with links and a timeline of your requests? (e.g. on /YouTube
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tantek )
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aaronpk hard to find actual dates for anything since there are no emails or anything happening, and no log on youtube
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tantek the matching "literally silent" is particularly bad
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tantek you don't get email cc's of your form submissions or anything?
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tantek did you keep a personal log of it?
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aaronpk no, and no email notifications of anything
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aaronpk i think i mentioned it in IRC when this first happened
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aaronpk also I think my dispute was rejected, because now the link says "Appeal rejected dispute", but i'm not quite sure what it used to say
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tantek not even a "we have received your request" email confirmation?
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tantek the lack of trail and opacity is worth documenting too
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tantek and then you get waxpancake to blog it :)
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tantek.com edited /YouTube (+494) "Lack of 3rd party copyright claim challenge with Jeena note example" (view diff)
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tantek there you go Jeena, you speak up, we make an example of you :) (in a positive way :D )
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tantek returns to reading benwerd social web related blog posts from years ago
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tantek that's pretty funny, looks like openmicroblogging.org (linked from benwerd's post(s)) domain reg lapsed and someone took it over to just use as their personal microblogging site
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[snarfed] tantek: "any way for users to challenge copyright claims" reminds me of http://askpatents.com/
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[snarfed] only loosely related, but still
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tantek good to learn about related patterns
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tantek the copyright claim on literally silent is disturbing
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aaronpk i'm preeetty sure there's no audio
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aaronpk let me check with headphones, maybe it's just super quiet
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aaronpk there's some background hissing, and some faint voices of people talking
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aaronpk half way through the hissing goes away, then comes back really loud, then there is actually no sound for about 20 seconds
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aaronpk right after the timestamp of the claim is when my music actually starts
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aaronpk yeah there is no way any reasonable person could listen to this and think it's a copyright violation
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tantek this makes me sad: http://status.net/2010/07/13/what-is-the-federated-social-web but at least this is still viewable http://web.archive.org/web/20100715062843/http://status.net/2010/07/13/what-is-the-federated-social-web
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tantek so many good benwerd blog posts, so little time
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aaronpk ookay submitting another appeal
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aaronparecki.com edited /YouTube (+807) "/* Content Reappropriation */" (view diff)
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aaronpk there
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tantek aaronpk++ thank you
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Loqi aaronpk has 953 karma
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aaronpk oh I didn't link to the actual video, but I can do that if you think it'd be useful
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tantek totally
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tantek good screenshot too of their form
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aaronpk that's probably the only record i'm going to have of submitting that
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tantek I've wondered if there was a browser add-on that would email you a CC of every non-search form POST you made.
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aaronparecki.com edited /YouTube (+36) "/* Copyright Claim */" (view diff)
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tantek ok let me see if I can get through citing benwerd's blog posts in various places on the wiki
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tantek.com created /TIMJ (+28) "abbr they use" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /This_Is_My_Jam (+352) "dfn abbr, shutdown date, see jam examples" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+9) "/* Upcoming */ /TIMJ read-only date updated in their shutdown post" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] andi galpern liked a post that linked to an event: "Homebrew Website Club Meetup" https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-08-26-homebrew-website-club https://webmention.io/notification/kHGulqpezCWw5sVvDHNaZw
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@call_user_func [New]davidpeach/indieweb-posts IndieWeb post types creation https://packagist.org/packages/davidpeach/indieweb-posts (twitter.com/_/status/639188569974665216)
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Jeena apropos copyright on silence being disturbing, I guess you haven't heard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%E2%80%B233%E2%80%B3 yet?
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tantek just don't do it for that long ;)
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KevinMarks what was the open source browser extension thing that decrufted websites?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "open source browser extension thing that decrufted websites" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/102M
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KevinMarks readability, that was it
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loqi.me created /Readability (+153) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by KevinMarks" (view diff)
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KevinMarks hm, if I redirect to the source url when I can't find mf2 there, about.me framebreaks and takes over the outer page
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tantek KevinMarks: you want the sandbox attribute :)
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tantek what is sandbox?
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Loqi The sandbox attribute of the HTML5 <iframe> element can be used to greatly restrict what the framed content can do https://indiewebcamp.com/sandbox
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KevinMarks just out sandbox on it?
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tantek it has details - read up on it
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KevinMarks yeah, I am, not sure what these would break
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KevinMarks thing is I can't apply that retroactively
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tantek huh?
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KevinMarks the site creating the iframe has to put sandbox on
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tantek no no - you just put an iframe inside instead of redirecting :)
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KevinMarks I suppose I could make an iframe of them in my iframe
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tantek :D
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KevinMarks then I can do the pageaspreview trick and shrink them too
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tantek thus have a fallback that they're motivated to improve by adding an h-card
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KevinMarks or not; I suspect some will look better
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tantek ah, that's your challenge to do better :)
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KevinMarks right, my design skills are so mush better than all websites ever o_O
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KevinMarks that is interesting if you click the big name link in these a lot of them do look better http://www.unmung.com/hovertest
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KevinMarks ryan's especially
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tantek Kevinmarks - it's the simplicity / consistency bit you can do better at. same way that Facebook restricing design options is looks better than the MySpace insanity
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KevinMarks everyone gets the same banner image ;)
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KevinMarks so, if I can't even find a name, just redirect: http://www.unmung.com/hovertest
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KevinMarks kinda works
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KevinMarks if I do the 1/4size iframe in iframe trick it may be evn better
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KevinMarks especially fro the about.me ones - if you hover Chris or Debs here, they take over the site http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2015-07-15.html
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tantek did sandbox not work to stop the framebusting?
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KevinMarks didn't do it yet
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KevinMarks it did on the test page
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KevinMarks though I should just test for about.me and put a warning up
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KevinMarks as the sandboxed ifraem is black
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tantek that's why you may want to customize the sandbox attribute to see if you can allow some not all things