#indiewebcamp 2015-07-29

2015-07-29 UTC
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tantek
KevinMarks - perhaps you can write a counter-article explaining how h-entry markup works for actual interoperable discovery of articles across sites today?
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tantek
I'd guess your article would be much shorter
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GWG
aaronpk: Did you ever fix the Quill issue I filed?
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tantek
and you wouldn't have to bother with so much API mumbojumbo
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KevinMarks
perhaps shorenstein and nieman can pay me to
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GWG
snarfed: Expect a pull request
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snarfed
oh boy unit tests!!!
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KevinMarks
ah, there's the problem http://evansandhaus.com/ "Evan Sandhaus currently works as the Semantic Technologist in The New York Times Research and Development Labs"
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GWG
snarfed: No. Revert of the edit-of functionality. But I'm learning about unit tests. I've been participating in the oembed feature plugin discussions(much to my dismay) and they have some nice code I'm learning from.
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kylewm
snarfed: btw micropublish.herokuapp.com works with silopub now
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kylewm
barryf++
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Loqi
barryf has 1 karma
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KevinMarks
do you just put in silo.pub, or a silo.pub prefixed url?
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GWG
I haven't seen barryf in a while.
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snarfed
kylewm++
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Loqi
kylewm has 205 karma
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kylewm
KevinMarks: just the silo url, I don't have the proxy homepages up yet
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aaronpk
GWG: not yet but i will try now!
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snarfed
i think it might have swapped name and content though…
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snarfed
oh no it didn't, blogger's rendering is just confusing :P
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kylewm
very animated!
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snarfed
heh yeah
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KevinMarks
is that js;dr theme still the default?
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kylewm
ha, those services are really not designed for note-length posts
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KevinMarks
h-feed name problem
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GWG
aaronpk: Did you finish your book?
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aaronpk
GWG: fixed the query string thing!
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GWG
aaronpk: Thank you. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't keeping you.
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kylewm
oh man, my digitial ocean server that died apparently had stopped doing automatic backups in March
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kylewm
oh weird, it's back!
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GWG
!tell snarfed Can you merge #15?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed
GWG: merged. so sorry about that! definitely meant to merge it when i commented last
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Loqi
snarfed: GWG left you a message 2 hours, 38 minutes ago: Can you merge #15? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-28/line/1438131113763
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snarfed
GWG++ for contributing!
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Loqi
GWG has 113 karma
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GWG
snarfed: Thank you. There will be more eventually.
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GWG
snarfed: I have a question though. With the newest micropub change...
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GWG
How many of the older reserved properties are worth maintaining?
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snarfed
heh, no clue
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snarfed
i wouldn't worry about it yet though. i'lll happily merge a revert to the old edit param, but we'll need tests in before anything bigger
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GWG
snarfed: The whole edit functionality needs work either way. I edited the parameters, but not going to push for a while.
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GWG
Need to figure out some things.
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GWG
I still want to make Post Kinds work with Micropub before I go back to enhancing Micropub.
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KevinMarks__
So, if I want to re-enact swat0 with Leo and Jeff jarvis, who gets to be whom?
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KevinMarks__
Leo is on known, Jeff is on wp I think
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GWG
KevinMarks__: Buzzmachine.com is running the latest version of WordPress
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GWG
Can you talk him into installing the webmention plugin and the Semantic Linkbacks plugin?
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KevinMarks__
Is it wp.com or self hosted?
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GWG
I'm reading the source code of the homepage
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GWG
I don't think it is wp.com
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KevinMarks__
So he couldn't use silo.pub to post, he needs plugins
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GWG
Also, he is using Disqus for comments.
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snarfed
no need to do it by hand, there's an app for that. http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report/?url=buzzmachine.com
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snarfed
looks like linode, so self hosted
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KevinMarks__
Ok, so I probably need to talk to his son, who's doing cs I think
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GWG
Has anyone ever tried webmentions on WordPress with Disqus?
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snarfed
bridgy for blogs for tumblr uses the disqus api
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snarfed
disqus fundamentally different from wordpress, to the point that wp doesn't matter
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GWG
Which means without some hacking, it wouldn't display on Buzzmachine
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KevinMarks__
Right, it has it's own api
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KevinMarks__
Could he be a and tag me?
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snarfed
yup. there's no plain vanilla disqus backfeed service yet afaik
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KevinMarks__
Ok, so then the goal is to get him interested enough to go to or host hwc ny
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GWG
I'm wondering what would have the biggest impact.
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tantek
good evening #Indiewebcamp
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tantek
KevinMarks: we're not quite at the point where we can get *any* 3 people to re-enact SWAT0 with their own sites
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tantek
currently only very custom solutions are able to be Player A and Player B. Even Player C is non-trivial.
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tantek
biggest challenges (least implemented) are posting/receiving a person-tag, salmention sending/receiving, push notifications in response to receiving webmentions
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tantek
no WordPress setup/solution can do all those
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GWG
tantek: Push Notifications I have.
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GWG
But the text is broken. I've fixed it. Waiting for some PRs to be approved.
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tantek
how are you waiting for PRs for something to work with your own website?
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GWG
tantek: I made a decision to run the stable version of certain pieces of code.
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GWG
Some of it isn't my project.
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tantek
GWG, which part isn't your project, and what functionality is it adding to your website?
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GWG
tantek: The actual push notification part.
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GWG
I spent a lot of time testing, and discovered it was an intersection of the push notification code, the webmention code, and the Semantic Linkbacks code that was causing trouble.
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GWG
The Semantic Linkbacks code was enhancing the webmention after the notification was already triggered
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GWG
The WordPress notification code didn't know anything about webmentions.
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GWG
The push notification code didn't have a hook to hook onto custom comment types, so I couldn't customize the message.
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GWG
tantek: When I was on vacation, I'd post a picture, and get a bunch of likes I couldn't understand.
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GWG
Of course, I'm waiting for pfefferle to merge the PR into the development version of webmentions for that part.
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tantek
ok - good to know GWG
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tantek
which do you think you'll be able to do first? Player A, B, or C? https://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0#implementation_requirements
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KartikPrabhu
person tag webmentions are sent to the homepage correct?
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kylewm
correct
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KartikPrabhu
ok so the start is to enable homepage/about page mentions
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tantek
I'll identify that specifically
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KartikPrabhu
yeah. I think homepage mentions themselves are not very widely implemented
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tantek
right
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tantek
and person-tag webmentions are a specific type of homepage mention
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KartikPrabhu
yes. a good start is to just get usual mention without classifying them
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tantek.com
edited /SWAT0 (+73) "/* implementation requirements */ expand details on what B must support"
(view diff)
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KevinMarks__
C is the easiest as Known+reader works
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andicascadesf
Hi guys.
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andicascadesf
So I am bringing a guest tomorrow to the Homebrew meetup at Moz.
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andicascadesf
that’s irrelevant actually now that I’m thinking about it.
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andicascadesf
I’d like to know how much you guys want IWC to grow.
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cweiske
i'd say 5px
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andicascadesf
and if there was any interest in meeting up one day to take the content from the wiki and design it into a responsive landing page,that would attract more people and spread the message beyond it.
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andicascadesf
It depends on big you want it to be. Right now I think it’s hidden gem and I lvoe it.
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andicascadesf
*love it
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andicascadesf
who designed that?
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cweiske
click on the "on github" link on the bottom
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cweiske
then click on "contributors"
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andicascadesf
I”m offering to set aside a day to work with you guys and make a really visually compelling landing page that will grow IWC.
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andicascadesf
but only want to get involved if you guys want that. This isn’t my group.
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andicascadesf
I have Cascade and love helping with IWC.
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andicascadesf
Just know that if I designed that landing page, you would attract A LOT more people.
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cweiske
you're welcome to help. just send a pull request to the repository
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andicascadesf
I’m trying to understand the goals behind IWC and the vision of it.
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andicascadesf
I do want to help.
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andicascadesf
I think I’m over thinking it. haha
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andicascadesf
I do have some ideas and hope to share them tomorrow!
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cweiske
coolio
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andicascadesf
Where does everyone live?
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andicascadesf
lol
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andicascadesf
can’t I just hover over your name and see information on you? ;)
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andicascadesf
cool! What time is it in Berlin?
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andicascadesf
nevermind i got it
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andicascadesf
9:15am. Have a wonderful day @cweiske!
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KartikPrabhu
!tell andicascadesf: it definitely is a good idea to have the indiewebcamp wiki be responsive and all that. I have no idea how hard that is to do with mediawiki which is a backend that runs it
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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petermolnar
I didn't know we have an indiecat
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petermolnar
s/indiecat/indiewebcat
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Loqi
petermolnar meant to say: I didn't know we have an indiewebcat
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petermolnar
I probably should stop webmentions on my imported/reposted content
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@synvila
I like the idea behind the indieweb but the number of wiki articles to read and things to do makes it seem really daunting to get into.
(twitter.com/_/status/626360105336995840)
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@synvila
I've only read 1/3 of this page and I've already opened 8 links just to understand the terminology. http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started
(twitter.com/_/status/626361415004237824)
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@petermolnar
@synvila short version: get a domain, get a website, make the site send/receive webmentions. The rest is bonus.
(twitter.com/_/status/626361920493371393)
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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Loqi
[mention] Amy Guy posted '@synvila If you haven't seen indiewebify.me, that's a much less daunting starting point. And IndieMark might be helpful for breaking stuff d...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/indiemark (http://rhiaro.co.uk//2015/07/synvilahttptwittercomsynvila)
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petermolnar
I've seen that tweet mentioning that our getting started page may have grown a bit too technie, so I was thinking of adding a Getting Started (Light Version) to the wiki; can someone please proofread it?: http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/getting_started_light_version
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petermolnar
although linking to http://indiewebify.me/ might actually be a better way
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cweiske
"2. Optional: Get your own domain" vs. "You will need a domain"
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cweiske
optional or not?
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cweiske
where is the difference?
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cweiske
website vs. domain?
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cweiske
from a user perspective?
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petermolnar
both, but I should phrase it better
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petermolnar
"a" domain is essential but not necessarily a new domain
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petermolnar
as a [].withknown.com works as well
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petermolnar
for example
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cweiske
i think that's too much for a simple getting started page
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petermolnar
yes, I've realized that as well :/
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petermolnar
I'll just link indiewebify.me to the getting started page
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petermolnar
to a very visible place
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petermolnar.eu
edited /Getting_Started (+166) "adding indiewebify.me to the beginning of the page"
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petermolnar.eu
edited /Getting_Started (-10) "/* IndieWebify.Me */"
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csarven.ca
edited /User:Csarven.ca (+87) "/* Created */"
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voxpelli
Just updated to some new versions of the parsers in my WebMention endpoint so if anyone sees something weird on a site that uses that one (like eg. KevinMarks), then ping me
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@martinlindner
@EskenSaskia kann weg. wir brauchen das #indieweb, auch und gerade für bildung.
(twitter.com/_/status/626399293902049280)
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ZegnatMbl
Almost at Sweden's first HWC. Any idea how many of us there are going to be, Jeena?
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Jeena
I think 3 or 4 Zegnat
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aaronpk
don't forget to take a photo!
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Jeena
yeah :D
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joskar
Jeena: When will you be there?
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joskar
Or other people who intend to participate, for that matter :)
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kylewm.com
edited /token-endpoint (+93) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
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indie-visitor
Jeena, joskar, I just got off at Gbg central station and will start towards the bar. I get there when I get there. 18 minutes according to Google Maps. --Zegnat
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joskar
Oh, then I better start thinking about moving myself ;)
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Jeena
I have a standup with the Portland crew at 17:00 which always takes like 10 minutes, after that I will move too, I'm sitting not that far away from it
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Jeena
I guess 17:20 or the latest 17:30
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@mccab99
@martinlindner @EskenSaskia Arg romantisch, das mit dem #indieweb, oder? Vielleicht bin ich wieder zu arg pragmatisch.
(twitter.com/_/status/626406222745468928)
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KevinMarks__
Andi: I made indie hovercards and they really need some design help too...
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KevinMarks__
Also I need to fix my caching for Tantek
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kylewm.com
edited /token-endpoint (+380) "/* Verifying an Access Token */ this step is required for generic token endpoint services, not required for tightly coupled token/micropub implementations"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
kylewm++
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Loqi
kylewm has 206 karma
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kylewm
question for you aaronpk, for micropub only, the authorization endpoint similarly doesn't need to support the verification protocol
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joskar
Jeena, Zegnat: I will be there a bit later than you guys, probably more like 17:45 it seems.
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kylewm
but if it doesn't, then it wouldn't support indieauth-for-login anymore
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kylewm
so I'm wondering if all authorization_endpoints SHOULD support verification
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kylewm
MUST?
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aaronpk
kylewm: yeah if it doesn't support the verification protocol then it won't support just login
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kylewm
there's not even really a place on the wiki for an authorization protocol that doesn't support authentication as well
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indie-visitor
Jeena, I am there. First table at the door, guy in red sweater.
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indie-visitor
Incidentally, this web IRC sucks for connecting on-the-go.
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aaronpk
indie-visitor: try http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/today?beta it's a little better
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aaronpk
still has the problems of web-based IRC tho
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ZegnatMbl
Freenode keeps forcing me to zoom in and out. Even just on their connect page where there is only 1 form and a captcha it isn't responsive
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kylewm
kiwiirc.com is nice too
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ZegnatMbl
I should just figure out how to get my phone connected through my bouncer, but too many hoops.
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Loqi
I agree
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aaronpk
if you have a bouncer it's a small step to get your phone on it!
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aaronpk
I like Limechat on iOS, i have that connected to my bouncer
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Zegnat
I tunnel into my bouncer before connecting on my Mac
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Zegnat
And simply don’t know how to set up the SSH tunnel on my Android phone
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aaronpk
oh crazy
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Zegnat
who is joskar?
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Loqi
Johnny Oskarsson is a student living in Gothenburg, Sweden https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Joskar.se
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petermolnar
wow, when did Loqi gain whois knowledge?
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Zegnat
It is not that crazy aaronpk, it is mostly so I didn’t have to ask my hosting provider to open up an additional port
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Zegnat
And it works pretty well, I just tunnel to the right local port on the server, and connect to localhost:port with my IRC client.
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Zegnat
But how would you do that on a phone, is the question.
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Zegnat
All tunnelling techniques I could find were about tunneling webtrafic
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aaronpk
yeah no idea. i opened a port for my bouncer and run it with ssl
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@scinos
Want to troll the frontend devs in your team? Use the username "[object Object]" and send them a screenshot. Enjoy the imaginary bug hunt.
(twitter.com/_/status/625511937049104385)
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aaronpk
tehehe
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Jeena
I'm trying to add person tagging, we'll see if I'll be done before this HWC ends, if so I will post a photo tagged ;)
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aaronpk
Jeena++
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Loqi
Jeena has 14 karma
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aaronparecki.com
edited /email_list (+555) "add my examples"
(view diff)
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kylewm
!tell snarfed w/r/t Flickr support for Bridgy, is it a non-starter to make an API request for likes and one for comments for every photo?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat
Attending HWC Göteborg out of the train for the last 20 minutes. Does that count?
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Zegnat
waves at Jeena & joskar
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tantek
wonders if we should start putting country names on HWC locations!
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tantek
Jenna++ !!!
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Loqi
Jenna has 1 karma
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tantek
Jeena++ !!!
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Loqi
Jeena has 15 karma
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tantek
oh snap there's the person-tagged photo post!!! https://jeena.net/photos/164
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tantek
well done Jeena!!!
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Zegnat
Jeena, did that send a webmention? It doesn’t seem to be on my endpoint yet
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tantek
Jeena - add yourself and your post permalink to http://indiewebcamp.com/person-tag#IndieWeb_Examples !
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Jeena
I hope it did send it but I didn't test
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Jeena
joskar is trying to check if he got a webmention
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Zegnat
I’ll check the log again soon, I can only do so much debugging from the train :(
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Zegnat
Keep me posted
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Zegnat
(Also, you are missing the j in Martijn)
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Jeena
ah damn, I will fix that :D sorry
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Jeena
but my battery is dying now ^^
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Zegnat
Not a problem, I guess you have people spelling your name wrong all the time as well
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Zegnat
Jeena: the webmention got here!
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Zegnat
Well done :D
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Zegnat
is also happy to see the WM endpoint he build worked
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Zegnat
Having the same battery problem here, next time HWC should be at a place with charge opportunities.
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aaronpk
I've been thinking about POSSE'ing to Slack
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tantek
similar to POSSEing to IRC?
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aaronpk
in particular, posseing some of the photos i've been sharing in a Slack channel
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tantek
I didn't know that was possible
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aaronpk
yeah they have a photo upload thingy, does file attachments too
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aaronpk
but photos render inline
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aaronpk
i've been enjoying participating in a sub-community of a small community that has a slack account
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tantek.com
edited /Slack (+376) "move slackbot to FAQ, add brainstorming / posse, see also"
(view diff)
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tantek
aaronpk: feel free to braindump: https://indiewebcamp.com/Slack#POSSE_to
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aaronpk
"no known indieweb examples..." well now that just sounds like a challenge :D
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KevinMarks__
well, on slack they kinda dispaly inline
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KevinMarks__
on android it's 3 clicks to see them
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aaronpk
on ios you see a thumbnail and then it's two clicks to see the full version
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KevinMarks__
too many clicks
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aaronpk
agreed
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KevinMarks__
and they don't play gifs inline
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KevinMarks__
which presumably means they de-gif them somehow
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KevinMarks__
google image tools resizes gifs but keeps the animation, which is fun
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aaronpk
btw Loqi's meme generator works with animated gifs :)
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Loqi
who, me?
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Jeena
Back with more battery. Damn I'm always almost there but not quite. Somehow webmentions haven't been send, but yeah otherwise it works well for such a short amount of time invested.
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joskar
Jeena: I see now that I actually got the POST to my webmention endpoint, but for some reason I didn't save it...so it's probably a problem on my end.
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Jeena
But the bigger problem will be now to make a nice UI which helps me to populate the name and domain
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Jeena
oh really? haha that would be cool, but I obviously need to test it more ;)
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Zegnat
Yes, the mention got to my end
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jeena.net
edited /person-tag (+168) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Jeena"
(view diff)
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cweiske
who is cweiske?
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Jeena
oh Zegnat so it got to you too, neat!
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joskar
Jeena: I actually think the problem was that I'm case sensitive on the protocol part (HTTPS:), so my endpoint decided to throw it away as invalid from the beginning.
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Jeena
oh, I see
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Zegnat
argh, train’s WiFi keeps throwing me out
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Jeena
I will save it again that way it will be resend
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tantek
Zegnat do you have some UI on your site for viewing your homepage webmentions?
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KevinMarks__
zegnat: maybe your train is sharing wifi with the UK east coast line: https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/1809603051
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@kevinmarks
@suw is he on the train? google thought i was in sweden when i was on train wifi on the east coast line
(twitter.com/_/status/1809603051)
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Zegnat
tantek: I do not, I literally build the whole webmention backend in the hour or so I was able to be at HWC Göteborg
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Jeena
hehe damn bug, now I have everything twice
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Zegnat
Jeena: first mention was in my logs at least at 19:19 : http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-29/line/1438190379899
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joskar
Jeena: I got the other webmention now :) (but it didn't get accepted because of the before mentioned case-sensitivity)
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Zegnat
goes to check his log
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GWG
sighs
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tantek
Zegnat++
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Jeena
hehe yeah, I need to work on the edit functionality
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Loqi
Zegnat has 8 karma
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Zegnat
Jeena: I have 3 mentions from you total
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Zegnat
Seems fine
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Jeena
yes, that should be the case, the third one is a bug on my site
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Jeena
bad request?
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joskar
Jeena: That was the result of your webmention ;)
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Zegnat
HTTP 400 Bad Request is the default webmention error code for any sort of mistake
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Jeena
ah I see
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Jeena
(moving on to the train, will be back soon)
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Zegnat
Jeena, you didn’t fix my name ;)
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GWG
I don't get many pure webmentions
#
GWG
I'm not counting Bridgy
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Zegnat
“pure” webmentions, GWG?
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tantek
s/"pure"/direct peer-to-peer
#
GWG
tantek: direct works
#
GWG
I was thrilled when I got one from acegiak recently.
#
GWG
I'd like to get more. Would help improve my process.
#
tantek
GWG, what is the current webaction UI like on your posts?
#
Jeena
tantek, this http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=events/2015-07-29-homebrew-website-club&diff=21190&oldid=21151 was intentionally left out because it doesn't say USA on Portland or San Francisco either ;)
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tantek
Jeena, it helps to point out instances of non-US-centrism :)
#
GWG
tantek: I have a web action issue because I don't want the fallback to be a silo
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tantek
GWG - sounds like you're talking yourself out of UI improvements that would likely get you more replies
#
voxpelli
Jeena: how did you upload your photo? I've been thinking that people tags would be a nice extension of the Quill photo feature you added
#
Jeena
I can say that because it doesn't say US on the other ones people might think that it is only meant for US cities. It's a bit like with the male centerd language where male is the default, here US is the default somehow. Just a thought.
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voxpelli
Added support for people tags to my site today, but have no nice UI for creating them
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tantek
GWG which silos do you POSSE to currently?
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aaronpk
heh the quill photo page needs a "tags" field at all
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Jeena
it also needs syndicate-to and so on, I just haven't had the time to add it yet
#
GWG
tantek: Twitter and Facebook, but I get more back feed from Facebook
#
aaronpk
you know, maybe the better solution is to add the "photo" field to the note form
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Jeena
voxpelli, I only used my normal upload via my own website-backend
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aaronpk
instead of making it a separate page
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Jeena
aaronpk, the problem is that note works with ajax
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tantek
GWG, since you're POSSEing to silos, consider having your fallback be to one of them.
#
tantek
whichever you consider the least worst
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Jeena
and you can't send a binary file with ajax
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aaronpk
that can be fixed
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aaronpk
it only justifies a separate page if the UI is significantly different
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voxpelli
Jeena: my "normal" is committing through git, doesn't qualify for SWAT0 I think ;)
#
Jeena
yeah with an iframe and stuff
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GWG
tantek: My fallback could also be local comments
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aaronpk
no i mean like doing notes with regular post too
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Jeena
oh I see
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voxpelli
Jeena: Can't you send binary stuff in XMLHttpRequest2?
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tantek
GWG except that doesn't work as well for repost or like
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aaronpk
there might be a reason to keep it separate tho, but i want that reason to be driven by the UI
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Jeena
voxpelli, not as a multipart form
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GWG
tantek: Does anyone do a local like?
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voxpelli
GWG: Quill can do local likes and I've presentation of them built for my site
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Jeena
I don't think there is a reason UI wise, aaronpk
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Zegnat
Jeena, according to this XMLHttpRequest can do binary FormData: http://stackoverflow.com/a/9397172 (or am I misinterpreting that?)
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Jeena
what are local likes?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "local likes" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100j
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Jeena
Zegnat, yeah, I said it wrong, you can do binary but not multipart
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GWG
voxpelli: I meant the same way someone can write a comment on most sites.
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voxpelli
GWG: Disqus does that at least
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Jeena
hm or am I mistaken, I was sure that it wasn't possible
#
GWG
voxpelli: But you need an account somewhere
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voxpelli
Jeena: Zegnat: https://github.com/github/fetch seems to do multipart? It's based on ajax2
#
Jeena
or, yeah I guess it is possible when you do the multipart stuff manually
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aaronpk
we can also change it so the file is uploaded via ajax (iframe trick) when its chosen, but the micropub request isn't made until you click "post"
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aaronpk
it's the quill server that makes the micropub request, not the browser
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Jeena
it's quite ironic that the only valuable part of my Tent app is a comment ^^
#
voxpelli
Jeena: aaronpk: Can we make an issue for it at the repo and whoever feels an urge to change it first does it? :)
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aaronpk
haha sure
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Jeena
hehe yeah
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voxpelli
Do we avoid double work I'm thinking
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voxpelli
s/Do/So/
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Loqi
voxpelli meant to say: So we avoid double work I'm thinking
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Jeena
(thumbsup)
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GWG
I wonder what a local like would look like
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Jeena
what is a local like?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "local like" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100k
#
GWG
The UI.
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Jeena
I still don't get it, what is local about it?
#
voxpelli
GWG: I have done account less like features on articles to get a Reddit-like feel on things
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voxpelli
For some customer projects of mine
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GWG
Jeena, where no other website was involved
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Loqi
snarfed: kylewm left you a message 1 hour, 59 minutes ago: w/r/t Flickr support for Bridgy, is it a non-starter to make an API request for likes and one for comments for every photo? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-29/line/1438188114933
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Jeena
ah I see GWG why would that look different to when some other website is involved?
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snarfed
kylewm: good question! honestly i'm not sure. maybe it's ok? probably at least to start. we could revisit if flickr gets lots of uptake
#
GWG
Jeena: I was trying to think of how the UI would look, not the output
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Jeena
Oh you mean instad of the name it would say "You liked this" or something_
#
Jeena
UI to post it or to display it?
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snarfed
er sorry, here's a fragment for that local like that works: https://nelsonslog.wordpress.com/2015/07/24/json-query-languages/#jp-post-flair
#
voxpelli
GWG: A star or a thumbs up button would in itself be enough, no? + maybe an indicator of total amount of likes if one thinks that is important
#
aaronpk
there's that one blogging silo that does "Kudos" and just shows the count
#
GWG
I sort of like seeing who liked
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Jeena
me too
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tantek
right!
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voxpelli
Some people sort of like not being shown that they have liked ;) Very much so at Flattr :P
#
GWG
So, I am wondering what interface allows for anonymous or non anonymous liking
#
Jeena
then they should not publicly like it ;)
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voxpelli
Jeena: then they need to have the option ;)
#
voxpelli
GWG: anonymous with just a plain button and non-anonymous through indie-config?
#
tantek
what is TWiG?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "TWiG" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100m
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Jeena
they do, just don't do it ;) but I get what you mean, private likes. And I don't think you can indicate that yet
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tantek
KevinMarks: ^^^ please create /TWiG while waiting to broadcast for it :)
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voxpelli
One can question whether totally anonymous likes are interesting – they are so easily faked or gamed
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tantek
they likely still cause some dopamine rush
#
tantek
on both the liker and likee
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GWG
Is there such a thing as semi anonymous liking?
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tantek
which may reinforce the behaviors (posting, liking)
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tantek
GWG - pseudonymous
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voxpelli
GWG: private likes, a registered user with no published identity
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Jeena
man, there is still so much to do, for example I need the concept of likes, I need a IndyReader, I need a better way to tag people and one milion other things
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GWG
I could just hack the comment form in WordPress to allow a like under the same parameters as a comment.
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Jeena
can you like privately on Facebook? Or will at least all your friends see it?
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tantek
Jeena, you may be looking for: https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieMark
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tantek
from there, pick and choose what resonates, and then /wikify on your User page's "Itches" section :)
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GWG
I moderate anyway
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Jeena
haha "IndieMark is a set of metrics for measuring the indieweb-ness of a site"
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GWG
snarfed: I wonder if any would integrate with the existing Semantic Linkbacks functionality.
#
Jeena
tantek, I don't like the wording of "h-card contact info and representative icon on home page." it should be ok to have it on /about when it is linked with rel="me" from the homepage
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Jeena
Hm I had a UI for searching but I removed it because it felt meaningless and just made the site look dirty
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GWG
But either way, I wrote a web action plugin for WordPress, but never released it. Thinking of possibly redoing it as an extension to Micropub
#
voxpelli
Jeena: we're a couple of people that do that, I think its documented on the wiki somewhere – saw it not that long ago
#
voxpelli
GWG: his is webaction related to Micropub?
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voxpelli
s/his/how/
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Loqi
voxpelli meant to say: GWG: how is webaction related to Micropub?
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Jeena
voxpelli, yes it is, that is why I don't like the wording on the IndieMark page
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voxpelli
Jeena: well, unless one wants to be a rebel it's the way clients currently expects it to be ;)
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Jeena
I know, but it is wrong ;)
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Jeena
and I don't mind to be a rebel either :p if nobody rebels it will never change :)
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GWG
voxpelli: The Web actions need an endpoint
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snarfed
kylewm++ for dealing with a pretty painful flickr api so the rest of us don't have to :P
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Loqi
kylewm has 207 karma
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aaronpk
aw you don't like it? I think it's one of the better silo apis!
#
aaronpk
it also hasn't changed like ever, so that's a plus :)
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kylewm
oh, ha, I was complaining about it being inconsistent in #bridgy (having user id called "nsid" one place and "author" in another place) ... I quite like how much data they give you
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kylewm
has a zillion different endpoints
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kylewm
notchanginginforever++
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Loqi
notchanginginforever has 1 karma
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snarfed
changeistheonlyconstant++
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Loqi
changeistheonlyconstant has 1 karma
eschnou, KevinMarks_, KevinMarks__ and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu
Loqi messages?
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Loqi
who, me?
keroberos, KevinMarks and Unifex joined the channel
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KevinMarks
OK, apart from SWAT0, what else should I talk about on TWiG?
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aaronpk
could mention IWC Edinburgh just happened
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KevinMarks
I'll mention HWC's tonight in SF, portland an Göteborg
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KevinMarks
tho' obviously too late for Swedish listeners
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Jeena
Zegnat now your name should be fixed
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Zegnat
Too late? When is this happening, KevinMarks?
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Zegnat
Jeena, yes, all good!
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aaronpk
too late for swedish listeners of TWiG to make it to HWC since it already happened :)
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Jeena
what is TWiG?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "TWiG" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100n
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Zegnat
aaronpk, ah, got it, I thought it meant it was broadcasting too late to watch or something
tantek joined the channel
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tantek
Jeena - yes we should document the 'h-card on separate /about page' pattern
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tantek
since there are people that are doing it in the wild!
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KartikPrabhu
raise hand
#
vanderven.se martijn
edited /User:Vanderven.se_martijn (+402) "Update introduction, steal from gRegorLove, wikify webmention endpoint, wikify event attendance."
(view diff)
#
Zegnat
puts his h-card on a completely different domain
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Jeena
haha Zegnat that is really weird
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gRegorLove
checks my pockets
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Zegnat
I liked your floating bio on the wiki, gRegorLove, so I stole your markup
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Zegnat
who is Zegnat?
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Loqi
Martijn van der Ven is a long-time web tinkerer living in Tösse, Sweden https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Vanderven.se/martijn/
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Zegnat
Cool, Loqi got it right :)
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tantek
nicely done
#
tantek
what is about?
#
Loqi
"About" is a commonly occurring page or section on a site that provides an introduction, overview, or summary of the site https://indiewebcamp.com/about
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KevinMarks
TWiG is This Week in Google, a podcast at [[twit.tv]] that Kevin Marks occasionally talks about IndieWeb on
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Zegnat
Jeena: I know it is weird, let’s see how many indieweb implementations I can break by having my hCard in a subfolder on a domain that doesn’t host the rest of my stuff ;)
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tantek
Jeena - separate domain as well as subfolder?
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tantek
do we need rel=about?
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gRegorLove
I have a more compplete h-card on my /about page
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: rel-me is sufficient
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Jeena
I too think rel=me is sufficient
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KartikPrabhu
Zegnat: does your h-card on the other domain rel-me link to the one where you post?
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Zegnat
tantek: I have had my personal information on vanderven.se/martijn/ for so many years that I kinda do not want to move it anywhere
#
gRegorLove
rel-about could be handy if someone has 10 rel-me links, so we could know to parse the rel-about first/only. But I don't know if it's *necessary*
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Zegnat
KartikPrabhu: it doesn’t link to my blog domain at all at the moment, I was waiting for that ’til the blog officially launched.
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tantek
gRegorLove: right - we should try the simpler publishing solution first, see how hard it is to handle in consuming code, and then re-evaluate the consumer/publisher trade-off accordingly
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KevinMarks
if I plug reader.kylewm.com on TWiG is that OK? (can you cope with the users)
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Zegnat
Which would have been today, if I hadn’t had unexpected visitors for the last 4 days
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tantek
kylewm ^^^
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tantek
cleans up /About
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KartikPrabhu
Zegnat: ok. I ask because you could have linked to my h-card
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gRegorLove
Speaking of TWiG, listening to Leo on the Nerdist podcast right now.
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KartikPrabhu
and without rel-me there is no way to find out if it is the real h-card for the blog
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Zegnat
Oh, no, don’t worry about that, it will be rel-me’d
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KevinMarks
also, is silo.pub explainabale?
#
Zegnat
KartikPrabhu: http://licit.li/ already uses rel="me" to link to http://vanderven.se/martijn/. There just isn’t a linkback yet.
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KartikPrabhu
Zegnat: yeah. 2-way rel-me is the only way to identify same person. like indieauth does
#
Zegnat
Jeena: you do not send a webmention when you update an entry? I.e. when you fixed my name?
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Jeena
I do normally but my edit part of the software is broken right now so I just changed it in the database
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: another way is to have a small h-card that has a u-url to a larger h-card
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Zegnat
KartikPrabhu: it will link back when licit.li is no longer empty. I did not feel for linking to an empty page. 2-way rel-me will be established, and then we’ll see what indieweb implementations do with it
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: on same domain that is what I do. but if pointing to a different domain that won't be sufficient
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Zegnat
Jeena: that’s fine then, just checking :)
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: I think I also use u-uid to point to the full h-card on about page
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tantek
makes sense
#
vanderven.se martijn
edited /User:Vanderven.se_martijn (+43) "/* Introduction */ Add rel="me"."
(view diff)
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: basically reusing the pattern I use for articles in feed which do not have full content
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tantek.com
edited /about (+212) "IndieWeb examples, subsections for people, linky, code markup"
(view diff)
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tantek
!tell KartikPrabhu, Jeena add yourself! https://indiewebcamp.com/about#IndieWeb_Examples
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KevinMarks
is web notifications something to talk about? has that landed in chrome/ff yet?
#
KevinMarks
'cos ben_thatmustbeme uses it right?
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kylewm
KevinMarks: I think it's fine to plug
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tantek
I think Chrome and coming soon in Firefox 42
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kylewm
I will allocate a few more workers to it
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ben_thatmustbeme
pops in. *why have you summoned me*
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ben_thatmustbeme
yes, i do use web notifications
#
KevinMarks
about to go on TWiG and talk SWAT0
#
Loqi
does a happy dance!
#
kylewm
woohoo
#
KevinMarks
did you post about how your web notifications work?
#
KevinMarks
(I was hoping for a reenactement. but not enough pieces yet)
#
KevinMarks
though leo could be C if he signs up for woodwind
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ben_thatmustbeme
KevinMarks: not yet
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jeena.net
edited /about (+149) "/* Jeena */"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
its on my todo list
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kylewm
considers doubling the RAM on DigitalOcean VPS...
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ben_thatmustbeme
mostly i used an article on it and haven't deviated much for that
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ben_thatmustbeme
but should at least post the link
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KevinMarks
OK, I'll link the google dev article
#
KevinMarks
that's pretty good
#
Zegnat
Jeena: can I add the HWC photo you took to the wiki? (Or will you add it yourself.) You have no open licence going on your website so can’t do it without asking.
#
Jeena
Oh hm true, I should add a license to it, take it and add it and I will fix the thing with the license
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ben_thatmustbeme
thats what i built it out of
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KevinMarks
that was a good article
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: is that linked from push notifications How to?
#
tantek
what are push notifications?
#
Loqi
A push notification (AKA client notification) is a notification that shows up on one or more of your client devices without you having to explicitly request it — it's "pushed" to you, instead of you having to poll for it https://indiewebcamp.com/push_notifications
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: could you wikify here? https://indiewebcamp.com/push_notifications#How_to
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Jeena
what is wikify?
#
Loqi
wikifying is the practice of putting stuff on the wiki, or something in particular on the wiki https://indiewebcamp.com/wikify
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kylewm
I'm deciding not to power down and scale my VPS because I don't know how long that takes
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vanderven.se martijn
uploaded /File:2015-07-29-hwc-goteborg.jpg "Photo taken by {{jeena}} at [[2015-07-29-homebrew-website-club|Homebrew Website Club]] in Göteborg (Sweden) on 2015-07-29.From left to right: {{jeena}}, {{joskar}}, {{martijnvdven}}."
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Zegnat
There we go :D
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tantek
might be the earliest (UTC) that a photo has been added to a HWC page on the day of its happening!
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@510home
@zeldman so, how easy is it convert a website to HTTPS? Especially if you're a little kid learning to code? Asking for my daughter.
(twitter.com/_/status/626389021363560448)
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Zegnat
Haha, tantek, this “earliest” photo is going to be the last thing I do before going to bed. Good night all!
#
Jeena
nice work Zegnat :D
#
Loqi
sleep tight!
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kylewm
upgraded VPS even though I said I wouldn't
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kylewm
tantek: did you see andicascadesf's offer here last night? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-29/line/1438153526368
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tantek
kylewm: I did, a bit surprised no one responded with the usual selfdogfood query
#
aaronpk
kylewm: yeah i try not to upgrade VPSs... i just replace them :)
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kylewm
tantek: what would be the self-dogfood query there? "do you have a responsive indiewebcamp landing page on your own site?" :P
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KevinMarks
I liked andi's hovercard comment
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KevinMarks
maybe she can help me make them better designed
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Jeena
what is hovercard
#
Loqi
A hovercard is a brief overview, usually including thumbnail, name, and description, that is shown in a rectangle overlapping in-context when you hover over something like a link, typically richer than a plain text tooltip https://indiewebcamp.com/hovercard
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tantek
kylewm: here's a pattern
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snarfed
maybe the first selfdogfood request is to make her "About" link on http://idreamofdesign.com/ not 404
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snarfed
</snark>
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kevinmarks.com
edited /hovercard (+146) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
(view diff)
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kylewm
yeah... all the links on there 404...
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snarfed
oh wow
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aaronpk
and when you click "back" it doesn't go back
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tantek.com
edited /2015/planning (+46) "add Austin and another MIT"
(view diff)
#
KevinMarks
has hovercards
#
KevinMarks
though the about.me ones are sad
#
tantek.com
edited /2015/planning (+212) "restore completed IWC for Brighton, Portland, Edinburgh"
(view diff)
#
kartikprabhu.com
edited /about (+669) "/* separate page */ add me"
(view diff)
#
tantek
kylewm: when someone comes into the channel and says "Hey here's this great way to improve your website! I'd like to help you do it!" the selfdogfood response is: "Cool! Thanks for the offer! Can you show you've improved your own website in that way as an example?"
#
tantek
where "your website" could be someone's personal site here in the channel, or indiewebcamp.com etc.
#
tantek
so in your quoted text, just drop "indiewebcamp"
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#
tantek
and change the "do you have" (sounds too confrontational) to "Could you show an example of"
#
tantek
"Could you show an example of a responsive landing page on your own site?"
KartikPrabhu and wilfredh joined the channel
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aaronpk
makes it sound like an interview
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KevinMarks
would trade indiewebifying andi's site for her redesigning mine
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tantek
yes KevinMarks that's the next step - skillswap for mutual selfdogfood improvements!
#
tantek
what is Calagator
#
Loqi
Calagator is an event hosting silo and aggregator that supports importing events marked up with hCalendar https://indiewebcamp.com/Calagator
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tantek.com
edited /Calagator (+857) "/* Feature Requests */ Webmention RSVP support - via aaronpk, and expand what Calagator would need to support"
(view diff)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@matrixdotorg
RT @MicropubInfo: Micropub support as an Application Service!: This required the AS to support IndieAuth – which it does by send... http://…
(twitter.com/_/status/626504247002198016)
#
tantek
aaronpk - I want to document all your awesome text based notification design that you created in the rush to SWAT0
#
tantek
because you obviously had to make a lot of difficult / tricky decisions to make it all work so well
#
tantek
which post types did you do custom notification strings / templates for?
#
tantek.com
edited /Calagator (+78) "/* Aaron Parecki */ ?? -> at least with link"
(view diff)
#
aaronpk
likes, replies, reposts, rsvp, person-tag
#
tantek
also the exercise of adding good indieweb support to Calagator is a good way to document a real world example of making an aggregator site indieweb /friendly
#
tantek
aaronpk I'm thinking of documenting each of those on its specific post page
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aaronpk
the template is {author|Someone} {liked|replied|reposted|RSVPd} to your {target post type}
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tantek
maybe in a brainstorming / notification design section
#
aaronpk
for person tags, it's {author|Someone} tagged you in a {source post type}
#
@matrixdotorg
Kegan's notes on building an #indieweb micropub to Matrix gateway at @IndieWebCampUK are up at http://matrix.org/blog/2015/07/29/micropub-support-as-an-application-service/ for those interested!
(twitter.com/_/status/626505677163364356)
#
aaronpk
if it's a repeat webmention, then the template is {author|Someone} {updated|commented on} a {source post type}
#
aaronpk
and i haven't figured out the proper way to handle the last part of that sentence
#
aaronpk
"someone commented on a photo {you were tagged in|that mentioned you|your photo}"
#
aaronpk
oops scratch that last "your photo" because that wouldn't be a webmention from yourself to yourself
#
aaronpk
that last part is tricky
#
aaronpk
tantek: i think it might be better to collect all of them on the /notification page
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aaronpk
because actually implementing this means you're going to have to look for all the cases
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KevinMarks
hopes he said Göteborg accurately
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joskar
KevinMarks: You did pretty good actually :)
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KevinMarks
I did go to sweden 35 years ago or so
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joskar
hehe :)
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KevinMarks
I still can't say 7 in swedish
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joskar
Those 'sch'/'sj'/sh'-sounds are quite hard if you're not used to them ;) Props for actually ever had attempted to say it though :)
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joskar
KevinMarks++
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Loqi
KevinMarks has 141 karma
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kylewm
hmm, maybe a basic question... In Woodwind, if you get new posts pushed up to you and rendered in JS in the browser, leave the page, then click "Back", it returns the cached version of the page without the new JS rendered posts...
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kylewm
how do I not do that?
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joskar
kylewm: are you using the history api for changing pages? Can't that be used to trigger a new page pull or something?
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joskar
A Cache-Control: no-cache could probably also be used, but then it won't be cached in the first place...
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kylewm
ok that gives me some google fodder
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kylewm
thanks joskar
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tantek
benwerd would you like to demo Known 0.8 at HWC tonight?
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KevinMarks
we're on
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gRegorLove
SWAT0 video playing
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aaronpk
\o/ Leo liked the music
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gRegorLove
KevinMarks++ for a great explanation of SWAT and why it's important
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Loqi
KevinMarks has 142 karma
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gRegorLove
heh "for some reason I feel like we've all given up on the federated web" Leo Laporte
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tantek
not all of us
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KevinMarks
that OK?
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tantek
we didn't give up, we just prioritized friends over federation :)
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aaronpk
KevinMarks++
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kylewm
KevinMarks++ great!
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Loqi
KevinMarks has 143 karma
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Loqi
KevinMarks has 144 karma
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gRegorLove
KevinMarks made a good point that "why not just use Facebook?" used to be "why not just use MySpace?" and talked about fragility debt
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KevinMarks
reader demo time
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gRegorLove
Brace yourself, readerr.kylewm.com
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KevinMarks
not working
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gRegorLove
Heh, auth took him back to indieauth.com instead of reader.kylewm.com for some reason
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kylewm
ruh roh
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gRegorLove
I think bc he did phone indieauth?
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kylewm
why does it say "Allow Indieauth access" and not "Allow woodwind access"??
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benwerd
Works OK from my Known
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gRegorLove
I logged out and back in successfully
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kylewm
oh man, what a bummer
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gRegorLove
He needed the www with his domain
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benwerd
Can we please get IndieAuth following redirects?
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kylewm
phewwww
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gRegorLove
HTML5 url error, doh
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benwerd
I can't give Leo leoville.net, it has to be www.leoville.net - but there's an automatic redirect from the ofrmer to the latter
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kylewm
crap that's the issue tantek told me about last week with having to include http://
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gRegorLove
I was looking for a JS snippet I used to fix that recently, kylewm
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benwerd
Aiiee.
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kylewm
oh god
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benwerd
I'll try and find a way to rewrite that subdomain redirector so this kind of flow works with it :|
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KevinMarks
well, we have ui testing video
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gRegorLove
kylewm: I used onblur, but use whatever JS events necessary for submit
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kylewm
KevinMarks: he's also going to hit the issue where it unselects "Micropub" when it redirects from indieauth
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kylewm
(if it gets that far)
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kylewm
well tantek, I officially regret not fixing the Woodwind issue you reported last week https://github.com/kylewm/woodwind/issues/25
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tantek
what happened?
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kylewm
Leo and Jeff Jarvis thought it was pretty lame
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tantek
I'm a good tester :D
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KevinMarks
some odd auth flow fails there
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tantek
As in, I break things in representative ways. ;)
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KevinMarks
he also forgot the www which he needs for his known site
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benwerd
^^^ We will find a way to fix that
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tantek
thus illustrating the fragility of using "www." subdomains for such trickery
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benwerd
I'd love to be able to write Leo an email explaining that it's sorted
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benwerd
Yes, but I can't avoid it
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tantek
yes you can the Kevinmarks method
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tantek
known.kevinmarks.com
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Jeena
sometimes it shows the "authenticate with indieauth" button which is weird and he klicked on it and it didn't get him anywhere
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KevinMarks
he's retrying
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KevinMarks
aaronpk: have a look
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benwerd
Sure, that'd work - but it'd be nice if it was actually at the root of a domain. I'm going to have to be a little fancier with the redirection
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kylewm
KevinMarks: go to settings
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kylewm
there you go
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tantek
kylewm did you see the JS I used to make input type=url work at tantek.com/relmeauth ?
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snarfed
kylewm: don't feel too bad, i tried schemaless urls first when testing micropub clients (~8 or so) the other day and half of them failed too
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tantek
thought I brought that up last time this came up
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KevinMarks
OK, still not quite working
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gRegorLove
"this is actually really cool"
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gRegorLove
There's a quote to put on the Woodwind product page
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Jeena
but he was a really good user he was really patient and tried it a lot of times
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gRegorLove
It didn't seem like there's a submit button on Woodwind settings page?
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KevinMarks
unscripted demos--
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kylewm
I'm pretty sure the problem was when you authorize micropub, it doesn't actually *select* micropub as the posting method
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kylewm
:shameface:
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kylewm
but hey at least i can fix it before the video goes up
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gRegorLove
Note for next time, worth mentioning that Woodwind can subscribe to Atom/RSS
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kylewm
I think he did say that
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gRegorLove
Just heard Leo post-show asking what else he could subscribe to "has to be an indieweb site"
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Jeena
hehe and it is cool to run the demo at least once before with the data/domain one will demo it live
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Jeena
It's not always possible but still.
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snarfed
KevinMarks: looks like leo manually posses many posts from http://www.leoville.net/ to twitter/instagram, but doesn't connect them. if it's not too late, maybe suggest plugging the urls into known so he gets backfeed
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Jeena
Oh I get what happened, in Settings after authorizing micropub you have to click on micropub again and _then_ don't forget to klick on save before you go to the home screen
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benwerd
So we run a 307 redirect from blah.com to www.blah.com. I'm still not sure why it 404s out, unless curl in the background isn't respecting redirects?
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benwerd
If that's the case, I suppose I could mirror the micropub endpoint
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benwerd
It's not great, but if that would make it work ..
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snarfed
ooh 307, exotic
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tantek
snarfed: I'd like to know *why* someone manually POSSEs when their software can do it automatically
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snarfed
we've discussed this before, right? i pretty much only manually posse
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benwerd
snarfed: so curl theoretically submits POST data etc to the destination page
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snarfed
ig and g+ because no write api, twitter and fb to customize the message
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snarfed
ahhhhhh redirect POST, great reason
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tantek
thus for ig and g+, software can't automatically do it
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tantek
for twitter and fb - that sounds like a posting UI challenge
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tantek
that is, if your posting client allowed you to customize, maybe it could alleviate those reasons for manual POSSE
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snarfed
afaik some CMSes can do it. maybe known?
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tantek
right
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tantek
built in POSSE is a big feature of Known
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tantek
including to G+ ;)
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snarfed
for me, manual until it hurts, and for original posts (minus checkins), it's never really hurt
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tantek
ironic since you built (helped build?) Bridgy Publish to enable easier automatic POSSE :)
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tantek
Bridgy++
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snarfed
indeed
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Loqi
Bridgy has 21 karma
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snarfed
my itch for that was replies, likes, etc
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kylewm
hey, this thing about Indieauth and leoville.net to www.leoville.net kinda relates to http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub-brainstorming#Micropub_for_Multi-user_Sites