#indiewebcamp 2014-07-16

2014-07-16 UTC
lukebrooker, KartikPrabhu, chrissaad, gRegor`, nagaway, snarfed, KevinMarks, wolftune and scor joined the channel
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KevinMarks Hmm https://twitter.com/Spacekatgal/status/489229785575747584
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Loqi [@Spacekatgal] https://App.net/ death watch. Half the team to revive open source has resigned.
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: if I ma seeing this correctly.. app.net is supposed to be an 'open' app-store?
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mko POLL: Are you currently using some sort of web action override? If yes, what are you using?
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KartikPrabhu mko: still no webactions on my site I'm afraid. Never got around to studying those and whether I need/want them
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brennannovak.com uploaded /File:IWC2014-Berlin-Dinner.jpg "Dinner after Indie Web Camp Berlin, 2014"
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brennannovak.com edited /Main_Page (+155) "/* Past Events: */" (view diff)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /User:Kartikprabhu.com (+1301) "/* Itching */ POSSE latest itch page" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu wohoo me is POSSEing itches to the wiki (manually)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /User:Kartikprabhu.com (+41) "/* Itching */ add original link" (view diff)
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kylewm bret: emmak: peat: tallpaul_: do you have a venue for HWC PDX tomorrow? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-16-homebrew-website-club
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KartikPrabhu seems like Google Takeout does not export my Google Play books notes/highlights to the promised HTML/JSON format (it gives me the original epub I uploaded)... anyone else tried this?
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KartikPrabhu would like a second opinion before I bother myself to bother Google
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KevinMarks Not tried Google books highlights
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kylewm.com edited /events/2014-07-16-homebrew-website-club (+80) "/* URLs */ add SF urls" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu I suspect that uploaded ebooks don't export notes but just the epub file. Will try on 'purchased' ebooks
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bret KartikPrabhu, re Transmat.io... thats a glennjones project, the creator of the very fantastic node uF2 parser
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JonathanNeal Hello!
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KartikPrabhu bret: yes I just couldn't find if his own site runs transmat.io apparently it does!
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KartikPrabhu hi
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: what’s been happening this last week?
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KartikPrabhu me or indieweb in general :P
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bret i think it runs his own site... happy to see that a) its in hapi and b) he is doing something indiewebby that might be usable by normal people ;)
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JonathanNeal Missed my opportunity to introduce new auth and comment stuff? Both!
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bret kylewm not that I know of.. aaronpk is out of town I think
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bret ill ask in mozpdx
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KartikPrabhu bret: I am all for normal people usable indieweb stuff... maybe transmat.io could include his site as an example so normal people can actually see it in action
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: indieweb in general a lot has happened including this mornings discussion about photo posts
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KartikPrabhu I'm oscillating between cleaning my code (boring...) and trying to export Google play ebook notes as marginalia on my own site :)
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bret i think so. his work is generally really great, even though we dont hear all that much from him in irc... something I should probrally mirror more. i talk too much/read too much logs here where I should put a lot of that time into just building stuff
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KartikPrabhu bret: it is good that people are building indieweb stuff and possibly not interacting here...
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: so you’re saying we can still build a blog or a facebook or something? =)
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kylewm bret: have you seen a site of glenn's that has sort of a file structure? like folders containing different documents? my memory is vague :(
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KartikPrabhu just worried that not showing a working example might dissuade potential users from giving transmat.io a serious shot which would be a shame
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: hopefully one where people can own their own data... hell yeah!
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KartikPrabhu thought I am generally sceptical of "normal" people realising that indieweb is what is best for their data and content
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bret !tell dietrich Heeyyyyy... wanna help host HWC tomorrow at mozilla? :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu on second thought maybe even withknown.com could use a working example on it
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KartikPrabhu !tell benwerd any reason withknown.com does not list your site as a working example?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu maybe it is just me but if I had something as awesome as known or transmat already working (not just talk) then I would mos def show it off!
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KartikPrabhu particularly because people get promised things all the time with out actual action
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: whats been happening/wokring on your side?
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bret kylewm not that I recall... just a beautiful / minimal possee / twitter client
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bret ngoldman wanna work on indieweb stuff after work tomorrow at esri? pllzzzzzzzz :p
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kylewm bret: yes it is gorgeous... first thing i fawned over in the Design Elements session :P
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KartikPrabhu hey! I wantz fawnerz too!
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: I was very ill last week. I feel like I have to start all over with the stuff we were talking about a few weeks ago.
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KartikPrabhu ahh hope you're better now. starting over is a common situation in my experience
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JonathanNeal Thanks.
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bret is thinking of just picking a space
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bret hrmmmm
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bret there isnt really a good place I can think of in pdx to hack in the evening
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: also it helps to take a shot at implementing things people here have already 'figured out'. Standing on the shoulders of giants so the speak
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ngoldman bret: I'm in San Diego! I'm down as soon as I'm back.
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bret oh ya dang
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bret ok well im just going to schedule something low key
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bret do a hacknight/small discussions with who ever shows in a cafe. we prob wont connect with SF other than over IRC
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kylewm low key++
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bret since it will be in cafe
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kylewm I was thinking of http://americangods.wikia.com/wiki/Low_Key_Lyesmith
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KartikPrabhu kylewm++ for Low Key Lyesmith
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Loqi kylewm has 28 karma
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kylewm is a total Gaiman poser. haven't even finished the book
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KartikPrabhu kylewm-- for being a Gaiman poser
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KartikPrabhu Loqi?
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Loqi who, me?
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kylewm hahah
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kylewm exactly what I hope you'd do
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kylewm hoped*
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bret http://calagator.org/events/1250466665
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club PDX on Wednesday, Jul 16, 5:30pm at The Waypost
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bret.io edited /events/2014-07-16-homebrew-website-club (+515) "Added pdx. woop woop!" (view diff)
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pfefferle good morning
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-07-16-homebrew-website-club (-142) "/* Where */ time & place for MSP confirmed" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-07-16-homebrew-website-club (+17) "/* URLs */ add MSP FB event" (view diff)
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mko Is it morning already?
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mko Whoops.
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mko Good morning, pfefferle
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pfefferle mko ;)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-07-16-homebrew-website-club (+401) "/* Where */ h-card MSP venue, abbr titles, note new MSP venue and time this week" (view diff)
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@W6AZ RT @kartik_prabhu: The #indieweb or: how I learnt to stop worrying and love the #blog. Comes about a year since I went indie (http://t.co/F… (twitter.com/_/status/489327294826037248)
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@W6AZ RT @benwerd: My #indieweb life: how my site gives me an awesome social media archive of everything I've ever written http://werd.io/2014/my-indieweb-life-how-my-site-gives-me-an-awesome (twitter.com/_/status/489328831811964929)
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jschweinsberg_ Is it just me or is waterpigs.co.uk a litte bit "destroyed"?
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pfefferle jschweinsberg_ no, same for me
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acegiak morning, folks
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KartikPrabhu morning people!
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pdurbin KartikPrabhu: mornin'
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KartikPrabhu hi pdurbin... how goes it?
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pdurbin KartikPrabhu: not bad. Oh, I realized there's a transcript for that podcast we talked about. I copied and pasted the part I especially liked: Creative Voices "The voices that we hear more often these days, I think, the… - https://plus.google.com/u/1/+PhilipDurbin/posts/HFPR1T4vqjn
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KartikPrabhu yeah I completely forgot that some listeners makes transcripts for that show! pretty awesome
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pdurbin yeah. http://javascriptjabber.com also has transcripts
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pdurbin maybe I'll add that to http://podcasts.greptilian.com ... a boolean for hasTranscripts or whatever :)
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KartikPrabhu blergh! Comcast connection is acting up. G+ is taking so long to lonad
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KartikPrabhu pdurbin: though I'm not really a web guy, I do get that same impression from reading articles about the web
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KartikPrabhu I should go download Andy's chat with adactio and listen to that too
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Loqi agreed.
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pdurbin yeah, I downloaded it
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KartikPrabhu here's a recent analysis of a similar issue: http://www.vanseodesign.com/web-design/responsive-sites-look-the-same/
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pdurbin KartikPrabhu: yeah, when I showed someone our redesign he said, "Ah, Bootstrap. Like everyone else. I like the old design better. More unique."
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KartikPrabhu hmmm is this because frameworks make it easier to just not write new CSS or something?
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pdurbin yes
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@ShaneHudson RT @kartik_prabhu: The #indieweb or: how I learnt to stop worrying and love the #blog. Comes about a year since I went indie (http://t.co/F… (twitter.com/_/status/489391500791668737)
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KartikPrabhu hmm that one seems to get quite the sporadic attention
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GWG Did I see acegiak after a while?
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acegiak GWG: you did but im about to hit the sack
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acegiak was gonna ask if anyone has tried scrobbling music in an indieweb way but then i spent hours building a lastfm plugin for wordpress
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acegiak but ill be able to chat more tomorrow
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snarfed hey pfefferle, i have a wordpress-webmention question
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snarfed i'm using the webmention_post_send, and i need the post id
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snarfed can i get it somewhere globally? or do i need to add it as a new parameter to that hook?
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-webmention/blob/master/webmention.php#L363
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pfefferle hmm
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snarfed i did that just now, and it's working: https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-webmention/commit/2336c9e103d210886d24954c9d371f01c34b8e23
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pfefferle snarfed that is a good question!
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snarfed i can send that as a PR if you want
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pfefferle snarfed cann you add a default = null to the post_ID? public static function send_webmention($source, $target, $post_ID = null)
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snarfed sure
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pfefferle so that it can be also used with pure source/target
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snarfed makes sense
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snarfed anything else?
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pfefferle snarfed thanks :)
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kylewm hai snarfed, is there a bridgy publish issue yet to check for rel=syndication if the in-reply-to is an original (non-silo) post?
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snarfed ooh no there is no such issue
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snarfed interesting feature, i like it
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kylewm probably posse-post-discovery would've been a much better name for this feature
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snarfed heh
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kylewm snarfed: filing an issue. I'd be interested in working on that one, btw
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snarfed kylewm: great! sounds pretty straightforward
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snarfed (famous last words :P)
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kylewm :D
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kylewm hi glennjones, I've been wondering about something I thought I saw on (one of?) your site(s). my memory is a little vague, but it was like a folder hierarchy with different documents nested in the folders? is that something?
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@kevinmarks @jolieodell tonight's Homebrew Website Club is something to look forward to for me. http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-07-16-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/489448047873511424)
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peat kylewm: Ahh, dang! I can't make it tonight. Wednesdays are tough for me. Hopefully the next one!
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snarfed [crickets]
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snarfed quiet day
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gRegor` Indeed. I think we used up all the chat yesterday.
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gRegor` Or as I joked in #indiechat, Kartik and Kyle are away today. Hmm.
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kylewm lol, I was trying to be good and stay offline
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kylewm and i go back and check and I was still the last person to say anything
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snarfed i always forget about #indiechat
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snarfed probably a good thing
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kylewm snarfed: in the generated twitter bridgy pages, has u-photo always been outside of e-content?
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snarfed kylewm: for tweets with pictures?
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snarfed got an example link?
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snarfed actually, regardless, the answer would be in https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial/commits/master/microformats2.py
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snarfed the template is at the top of that file
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kylewm https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kyle_wm/489470179651248128/489476985694216194
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snarfed maybe also wade through https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial/blame/master/microformats2.py
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snarfed the answer is, probably yes
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snarfed activitystreams-unofficial interprets twitter pictures as attachments, which are rendered outside e-content
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snarfed the pic.twitter.com link is inside
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snarfed it's debatable whether the picture should be too
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kylewm interesting! I'm wondering if I should render them that way on my site too
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kylewm that's what mko was suggesting yesterday
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kylewm that e-content is the caption only, and u-photo is the photo only
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snarfed i don't personally care one way or the other, happy to merge any PR
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@drjaxon Jim @jimgroom mentions this movement http://indiewebcamp.com #connectdlearning (twitter.com/_/status/489511679273627650)
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@drjaxon Jim @jimgroom mentions this movement http://linkis.com/indiewebcamp.com/bbc2m #connectdlearning (twitter.com/_/status/489511684038332417)
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snarfed (in general, i blindly implement any mf2 anyone tells me to :P)
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gRegor` Haha
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mko Yeah, though that's for a "Note with Photo." a "Photo" I still feel is where e-content and u-photo are equivalent.
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Loqi rofl
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gRegor` If we're sticking with post-types, I think the u-photo outside the e-content is good for photo posts.
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mko Sometimes Loqi takes so long to respond, I think it's just aaronpk being bored.
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Loqi who, me?
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mko And then other times it's immediate.
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mko I'm not going to go into it again. I want to get this damn site live and then I can just document what I did and people can tell me I'm wrong. ;)
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gRegor` Haha, I think we're in agreement actually.
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kylewm yeah, no intention of shaving that yak again
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kylewm just that's the first example i've noticed where it's an attachment and not part of the content
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mko Gotcha. It's that way on the Facebook API as well.
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mko https://gist.github.com/mko/1bdaa1ee902b3c316d91
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mko The picture is only in "picture"
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mko And the text content is in "message" (Facebook's version of "content")
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kylewm cool
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kylewm goes back to stealth mode
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mko BAMFs
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@PenmansPocket Ross added The Indieweb (https://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog) to his Pocket. (twitter.com/_/status/489517901804617728)
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emmak tantek suggested u-photo should go inside e-content: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-08/line/1404866760
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emmak and apparently whether its inside or outside, it will be interpreted the same by a microformats parser
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KartikPrabhu emmak: the mf2 will be the same but the content.html property will have an image
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emmak hmm good point
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KartikPrabhu which seem correct since the image is part of the content
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npdoty is there any harm done if a page (for example, the index page of your blog) contains two <a> tags, both with rel="in-reply-to", pointing to different URLs?
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gRegor` You can have multiple in-reply-to URLs for a single post, yes.
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npdoty I'm thinking more the case where a blog might show the complete contents of multiple posts
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npdoty which reply to different posts
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snarfed sounds like an h-feed
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gRegor` If they're each marked up correctly, they'll get inside an h-entry
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gRegor` So the in-repl-to will be set on the nearest h-* parent
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KartikPrabhu npdoty: rel is scoped to the entire page so even if the rel="in-reply-to" is inside the h-entry it will be for the whole page
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npdoty KartikPrabhu, yeah, that's my concern
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gRegor` KartikPrabhu: has some multiple in-reply-to on his stream: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes
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KartikPrabhu npdoty: I suggest using u-in-reply-to
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npdoty even if I scope them to different h-entry values, it seems like technically I'm misusing rel
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gRegor` Ohhh, rel=in-reply-to? Misread that
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KartikPrabhu npdoty: yes. so use the microformat equivalent which is scoped to individual hentries and not the whole page
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gRegor` Heading out. See you in a bit, KartikPrabhu
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npdoty the webmention protocol doesn't rely on rel=in-reply-to?
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KartikPrabhu gregor`: I'll head out soon too
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npdoty ah, webmention just requires that there is a link of some kind to the target
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KartikPrabhu the webmention protocol does not depend on any markup just a link
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KartikPrabhu the microformat is for the receiver to parse and display your reply.
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npdoty okay, cool. so it sounds like rel="in-reply-to" isn't necessary for anything?
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KartikPrabhu so I would put a <a href="..." class="u-in-reply-to"> inside an h-entry so that the receiver knows it is a reply and not a generic mention
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npdoty ah, I guess I was following the indiewebcamp.com page on replies, which states that rel=in-reply-to is required
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npdoty http://indiewebcamp.com/reply#Make_a_comment
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KartikPrabhu that is for the permalink pages and not for feeds/streams
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npdoty right, so I could change the content so that a rel=in-reply-to is present on the permalink page but isn't present when the content is presented in a feed with multiple entries ...
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npdoty ... but that's harder to get right :)
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KartikPrabhu npdoty: just use u-in-reply-to
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KartikPrabhu http://indiewebcamp.com/reply##mark+up+your+comment
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npdoty will do, thanks, KartikPrabhu
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KartikPrabhu yup
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KartikPrabhu npdoty: the point being the u-in-reply-to will work on both the permalink pages and the streams pages so it is easier to maintain
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npdoty KartikPrabhu, right, I'm just not sure if any services are relying on rel="in-reply-to" to identify a reply
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KartikPrabhu services as in?
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npdoty will the post on werd.io that I just replied to recognize my page as a reply if it uses u-in-reply-to rather than a rel?
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KartikPrabhu yes
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npdoty (answer via testing it right now: yes)
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npdoty if no one is using software that relies on rel="in-reply-to" then maybe we should remove that from the recommendations on the wiki
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KartikPrabhu most people use u-in-reply-to rather than rel=in-reply-to
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snarfed npdoty++
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Loqi npdoty has 1 karma
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npdoty snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 35 karma
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npdoty KartikPrabhu++
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Loqi KartikPrabhu has 49 karma
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snarfed fakeinternetpoints++
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Loqi fakeinternetpoints has 1 karma
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mko !tell aaronpk When you've got a few minutes to chat, I'd love to understand better how to enable authentication for micropub. I didn't actually realize IndieAuth provided a bearer/access token.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bret mko for micropub, i think a different server does the token stuff
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mko bret: Does anyone have a working micropub instance? I thought somebody did, but couldn't find it when I went searching for it.
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bret i have one :)
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bret an endpoint
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emmak_ i have one as well
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bret http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub
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mko Hm. The explanation on the wiki is rather vague as to how authentication is handled. How did you two handle it?
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bret http://indiewebcamp.com/login-brainstorming
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bret http://indiewebcamp.com/auth-brainstorming
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bret http://indiewebcamp.com/micropub-endpoint
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bret we REALLY need to sit down some weekend and clean all that up
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emmak_ https://github.com/notenoughneon/neonblog/blob/master/lib/auth.php
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mko >.< I've already read those.
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mko Thanks, emmak_
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bret ack
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bret mko which part are you building?
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bret the authorization_endpoiont, the token_endpoint or the micropub endpoint
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mko bret: my own endpoint and a UI for other people to post to their own micropub endpoints from my entry pages (i.e. posting to their site from mine)
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bret ah so a cliemnt
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bret client
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mko Yeah. Client and my own micropub endpoint.
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bret and and endpoint
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bret got it
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bret i can explain the micropub endpoint stuff and how to use the https://tokens.oauth.net/token token endpoint
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bret but I have not done a client before
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emmak_ mko: is that to allow commenting?
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bret ohh cool there is info here: https://tokens.oauth.net/
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mko emmak_: Yep. I've already got the simple Webmention form available and the entire set of reply UI wrapped in a web action, but I wanted to set up a full round-trip of IndieWeb commenting from the view page.
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emmak_ there was a discussion on trust-less micropub, which sounds like what you are looking for, but i don't think its been fleshed out yet
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bret barnaby does something like storing the token in a client side cookie
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mko Yeah. I've got that set up already (sort of). Like, anyone could listen for these micropub posts and just choose whether to post them or not based on the referrer, but I'd rather handle the post directly and have the post appear on both sites moments after using the interface.
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bret emmak_ I couldn't find a space last minute for HWC so I just posted an event to calagator at the waypost
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bret kinda out of the relative to downtown
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bret s/the /the way
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Loqi bret meant to say: kinda out of the wayrelative to downtown
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bret but its a nice place to work
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KartikPrabhu HWC - Chicago activate!
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gRegor`_ Chicago HWC in session
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gRegor`_ Awaiting our first newcomer
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kylewm mko: I played with micropub comments on my site... it's problematic right now that to comment, people would have to give me write access to THEIR site
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bret thats kinda a freaky thought
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mko Yeah, but you shouldn't need it.
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kylewm of course, I trust barnaby not to do something sketchy with my access token a hell of a lot more than most of the twitter apps i give permissions to
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emmak_ bret: not sure if i'll be able to make it out there tonight
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bret totally understand :p
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mko They control their micropub endpoint. If they want to create flood or abuse protection on their endpoint, that's easy to do, and granting access should only allow for certain activities (i.e. only posting replies or only posting replies, likes, favorites, bookmarks)
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bret caseorganic are you and aaronpk back in pdx?
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caseorganic bret: not yet - still at esri user conference
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bret ah cool have fun :D
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kylewm bret: isn't aaronpk the person who publically logs his gps coordinates down to the minute?
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kylewm :P
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bret oh ya i fergit
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werd.io edited /events/2014-07-16-homebrew-website-club (-69) "/* Where */" (view diff)
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kylewm appears to be in NASNI right now...
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gRegor` !tell benwerd You don't accept HEAD requests to werd.io?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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mko A-ha! I knew aaronpk must have had info on how to use IndieAuth to get an access token. https://tokens.indieauth.com/ has the info.
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bret mko same as the tokens.oauth.net I think
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bret err i mean https://tokens.oauth.net/
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mko Oh. That's weird.
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bret since they are standard oauth tokens
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bret i thinj
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kylewm I think tokens.indieauth.com is preferred ...
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bret shit when did that happen?
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kylewm not sure ,he mentioned something about overloading oauth.net feeling a little wrong
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mko To be fair, I was confused when first implementing IndieAuth because I'm so used to generating access tokens during authentication, so it makes a lot more sense to me to be on IndieAuth, since that's the authentication provider.
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KartikPrabhu ...and we're back!
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mko Welcome back KartikPrabhu
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gRegor` New HWC attendee hasn't shown up yet. :/
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