#indiewebcamp 2016-05-24

2016-05-24 UTC
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snarfed
thanks!
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tantek
colintedford++ nice work on creating and fleshing out /versioning !!!
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Loqi
colintedford has 7 karma
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tantek.com
edited /versioning (+55) "/* Source Control Management */ direct links to SVN, Mercurial, no indieweb need for separate pages (yet, maybe ever?)"
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tantek.com
edited /Subversion (+8) "merge into versioning / SCM, no indieweb need for a separate page yet"
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tantek.com
edited /SVN (+26) "merge into versioning / SCM, no indieweb need for a separate page yet"
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tantek.com
edited /svn (+26) "merge into versioning / SCM, no indieweb need for a separate page yet"
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tantek.com
edited /Mercurial (+8) "merge into versioning / SCM, no indieweb need for a separate page yet"
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tantek.com
edited /Facebook (+29) "/* Features */ versioning"
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tantek.com
edited /meta_http-equiv_status (+81) "/* http-equiv Status */ link to devmo description of http-equiv attr"
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colintedford.com
edited /updated (+28) "/* See Also */ versioning, edit"
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colintedford.com
edited /versioning (+14) "/* See also */ [[updated]]"
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colintedford.com
edited /edit (+31) "/* See Also */ updated, versioning"
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colintedford.com
edited /edit (+14) "/* See Also */ [[deleted]]"
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colintedford.com
edited /versioning (+14) "/* See Also */ [[deleted]]"
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bear
another markdown parser implementation: https://meh.com/forum/topics/mehdown-2-0
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Loqi
[shawn] Mehdown 2.0
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tantek
LOL: "No need remember the Markdown syntax for adding links."
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tantek
LOL2: "If your URL ends with a recognizable image format Mehdown with automatically convert it to an image (instead of a text link)" Hmmm... where I have heard this before ... /autoembed
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bear
some of the smart embed items are on my itch list for my site... now if I only blogged more about media resources
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tantek
I dare say the Tables, Nested Blockquotes, and Nested Lists look reasonable (as textual equivalents)
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tantek
OTOH: "~~" for strikethrough?!? Are you kidding me? That's a totally madeup thing.
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bear
yea, I always thought that was odd - my preference was to use -foo- as that resembled what I was trying to do
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bear
as well as /foo/ for italics - but the web URL fad ruined that
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bear
;) (/me raises the sarcasm flag on that last one)
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tantek
hahah yeah /foo/ for italics vs. directories was always a problem
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tantek
bear, I *almost* said something about -foo- except that starts to look like a CSS vendor prefix :P
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bear
chuckles
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tantek
have you seen -f-o-o-
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[kevinmarks]
slack uses ~ either side for ~strikethrough~
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KevinMarks
that didn't do what I expected
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tantek
really dislikes backtick for inline code. again, no plain text precdence, totally made-up, totally forgettable
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colintedford
I switched from Markdown to ReStructured Text for a while and they used backtick for (among other things) <cite>
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colintedford
Which is arbitrary, but I really miss having it.
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KevinMarks
and ``` is almost as long as <pre> </pre>
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colintedford
b/c I write titles of works often.
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tantek
finally scrolls down to the IMGUR TRON Legacy gif loop and realizes the entire reason that bear posted this in the first place.
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tantek
Yup, time to go home,that pretty much tops my day
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bear
my true intentions have been unmasked!
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tantek
Imma let you finish, but first
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tantek
what is GIFV?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "GIFV" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10M1
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tantek
🎤
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bear
GIFV was created at Imgur to allow GIFs to be played back at higher quality and is implemented by converting GIFs to mp4 or webm, greatly reducing the size of extremely large GIFs - see http://blog.imgur.com/2014/10/09/introducing-gifv/ for more information.
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loqi.me
created /GIFV (+285) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-23/line/1464050179243 and dfn added by bear"
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Loqi
[Sarah] Introducing GIFV
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KevinMarks
so .gifv is mp4 with no sound and loop on?
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KevinMarks
do you have to start with an 8-bit format?
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jdp
pretty much, it's an html file with a video element with a couple different src values for compatibility
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bear
the cool part is that any .gif url you get from imgur you can change to .gifv and use the mp4 to embed
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KevinMarks
embed via iframe?
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bear
I am probably using embed wrong :/
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bear
I meant to say that you can use <video> tag to play it
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@scott_gruber
Indiewebcamp: scottgruber.me. Trying to setup webmention to rsvp to @indiewebcamp in PDX. https://scottgruber.me/notes/indiewebcamp
(twitter.com/_/status/734910632323997696)
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bear
KevinMarks++ for showing what I was trying to say :)
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Loqi
KevinMarks has 217 karma
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KevinMarks
also following tantek's mic drop
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uranther
bear++
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Loqi
bear has 134 karma
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@Damien53958753
IndieWeb Summit 2016 Own your data Personal API's https://indiewebcamp.com/next-iwc to discuss POSSE Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere
(twitter.com/_/status/734973462255521792)
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microfox
hello guys i have a problem here when i try bin/bundle install --with mysql it keep complies about hamlit want ruby v 2.1 and i am using 2.2 as wiki says so i am not able to install hamlit v 2.3.1 also listen 3.1.3 want ruby 2.2.3 ??? so any idea am using centos 7
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kylewm
what are you trying to install microfox?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "you trying to install microfox" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10M2
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kylewm
hush Loqi
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Loqi
grins profusely
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microfox
okay thanks anyway :)\
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kylewm
is invisible
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aaronpk
Which app is this for?
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@linux_everyday
https://indieauth.com - Sign in with your domain name (using the rel-me-auth http://microformats.org/wiki/relmeauth protocol. #linux_everyday
(twitter.com/_/status/734983200221605889)
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microfox
it's a social network ruby app called diaspora
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Ruxton
microfox: you should be checking out #diaspora
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KevinMarks
everyone keeps leaving that channel for some reason
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KartikPrabhu
what is app-manifest?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "app-manifest" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10M3
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KartikPrabhu
what is manifest?
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Loqi
A manifest or app manifest is a file that provides information about a web app, like name, description, icons, developer/author https://indiewebcamp.com/manifest
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KartikPrabhu
what is app manifest?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "app manifest" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10M4
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KartikPrabhu
app manifest is /manifest
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loqi.me
created /app_manifest (+21) "prompted by KartikPrabhu https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-23/line/1464072427339 and dfn added by KartikPrabhu"
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@aegibson73
I just liked "Add the Webmention plugin to your WordPress weblog" on @Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/85217592
(twitter.com/_/status/735010395128254464)
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@MartaSmaldone
'Owning my words' a post full of interesting remarks #publishing #indieweb #medium #comments #community @adactio https://adactio.com/journal/10675/amp
(twitter.com/_/status/735010685017554944)
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donaldmcintosh.net
created /User:Donaldmcintosh.net (+91) "Created page with "[http://donaldmcintosh.net Donald McIntosh] is a software developer from Glasgow, Scotland.""
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mrhenko
I have a question regarding backfeeding from Twitter to WordPress using Bridgy. When one of my notes gets a reply it is correctly sent as a webmention to my WP-site. If I reply to the reply (on Twitter) it's also sent as a webmention.
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mrhenko
So far, so good.
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mrhenko
But then it seems that subsequent posts in the thread are missed by Bridgy.
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mrhenko
Has anyone else experienced this? Bug or feature?
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KartikPrabhu
mrhenko: are the subsequent posts not backfed to your "reply ot the reply" ?
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mrhenko
@KartikPrabhu It doesn't show up in the dashboard of Bridgy at all. My reply to the reply is not posted as a separate post on my blog, only as a reply on twitter that is then backfed as a reply to my original post on the blog.
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KartikPrabhu
mrhenko: I think there was an faq/bug or something about this on Bridgy but I can't seem to find it
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mrhenko
Me neither. I've searched the site and issues on the repo on github without any luck.
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KartikPrabhu
!tell snarfed: see bridgy related issue beginning http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-24#t1464076969474
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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mrhenko
KartikPrabhu: Thanks!
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KartikPrabhu
mrhenko: btw what is your site?
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mrhenko
KartikPrabhu: blog.henrikcarlsson.se
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KartikPrabhu
mrhenko: pretty awesome!
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KartikPrabhu
you have notes and everything!
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KartikPrabhu
mrhenko: I asked because I like looking at people's own sites to see what cool stuff they have done
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bear
mrhenko++ nice looking site
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Loqi
mrhenko has 1 karma
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@yatil
Webmention is now a W3C Candidate Recommendation – Submit implementations! http://www.w3.org/TR/2016/CR-webmention-20160524/ /cc @adactio
(twitter.com/_/status/735022824453214208)
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sknebel
okay, your site has finally convinced me that I really need some sort of non-white structured background image for my site
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KartikPrabhu
sknebel: white background is good too!
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sknebel
it's the third site or so where I think "oh, they are doing the posts similar with these boxes, but it somehow looks better, what is different"
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Loqi
The indieweb is different from previous efforts like blogging, federation, decentralization, etc http://indiewebcamp.com/different
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sknebel
lol @ loqi
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KartikPrabhu
sknebel: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes counter example to boxes
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sknebel
I like boxes, just something about them on my page doesn't feel right. Eh, will have to play around with a few more options soon
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KartikPrabhu
sknebel: design is hard; keep iterating it
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mrhenko
KartikPrabhu: Thanks! I've been tinkering with the indieweb stuff off and on for over a year and I've finally made the backfeed work without any manual intervention on my part.
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mrhenko
KartikPrabhu: I agree, looking at other peoples site's is great for inspiration. I was about to ask you about your site but I saw that you already posted it below. Trying to load it right now but it seems to not work at the moment.
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KartikPrabhu
mrhenko: nice! feel free to ask questions here. even if people are not around at the time, someone will asnwer
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KartikPrabhu
mrhenko: wait! might site does not load!
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mrhenko
bear: Thank you! It got a lot prettier when I started using the SemPress theme instead of my own.
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bear
I just swipe css from random sites so I don't have to think about design
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KartikPrabhu
bear: good strategy until it doesn't work ;)
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bear
ha! yep, which is about every other update -- which is why i'm not touching it for a while :)
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mrhenko
KartikPrabhu: No, not for me. I'm trying both the url you posted here (to the notes section) and directly to the top of it.
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KartikPrabhu
mrhenko: could you check if https://kartikprabhu.com/ loads for you? otherwise there is something wrong with my site!
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mrhenko
sknebel: So what's your site?
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bear
KartikPrabhu - your site is loading for me
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mrhenko
KartikPrabhu: Now both of them works. Probably something on my end. My connection has been acting up for a while.
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KartikPrabhu
mrhenko: oh good to know <phew!>
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mrhenko
sknebel: I like the clean, simple look of it.
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KartikPrabhu
sknebel: as a suggestion you might want to play with the border-radius of the boxes to make them more "round" and also the shadow; i suspect that is what is making them not seem "good" to you
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sknebel
Will try that
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sknebel
got some feedback that the boxes are not separated from the background enough
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sknebel
more shadow might help
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sknebel
(esp if I just posted an image followed by a note, on small screens you see the note and the top of the image, and some people thought at first the note was the title of the image
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sknebel
which is no good
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KartikPrabhu
sknebel: for that you might want to resctrict the height of the image on small screens
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KartikPrabhu
as in max-height: 80vh
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mrhenko
sknebel: I would suggest more whitespace between the various boxas to separate them better.
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KartikPrabhu
or something similar that works with your design
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mrhenko
sknebel: Also, if you allow me to nitpick, I'd use either a serif or a sans-serif font for both the post content and the meta data.
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KartikPrabhu
mrhenko: how come i get no feedback! ;)
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mrhenko
KartikPrabhu: Oh, sorry! I was trying to do multiple things at once (unload the dishwasher, listen to a podcast and participating here) and as usual that led to me forgetting something.
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mrhenko
KartikPrabhu: Very, __very__ nice!
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KartikPrabhu
mrhenko: oh comeon! I was only joking
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KartikPrabhu
but I always like feedback
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mrhenko
KartikPrabhu: No problem, I didn't think you were seriously offended. :)
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sknebel
just noticed I accidentially uploaded a CSS with the webfonts commented out *facepalm*
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sknebel
(was working on it semi-offline on the train to IWC Düsseldorf and the browser delay annoyed me)
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mrhenko
sknebel & KartikPrabhu: BTW, I'm adding both of your sites RSS feeds to my "microblogs" river.
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petermolnar
why webfonts? even WordPress is moving away from them these days. Use native ones, and read this: https://medium.com/designing-medium/system-shock-6b1dc6d6596f#.rqekd1xwr
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petermolnar
unless it's for icons
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KartikPrabhu
mrhenko: you should add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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KartikPrabhu
petermolnar: webfonts are not all bad!
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petermolnar
if you load it from your domain it's not _that_ bad
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petermolnar
but they are slow
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KartikPrabhu
not everything needs to be in Helevtica
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[kevinmarks]
For icons use SVG
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KartikPrabhu
[kevinmarks]: yup!
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petermolnar
KartikPrabhu personally, I hate Helvetica, and it's not even present on my linux, since it's a proprietary font
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petermolnar
that is not what I'm talking about
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KartikPrabhu
mrhenko: my posting is infrequent these days but thanks!
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KartikPrabhu
petermolnar: ok bad example then. but webfonts cache well enough so...
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petermolnar
there is a growing number of articles to use fonts that are locally present on machines: they will let the sites look native to the device and they are much faster on loading
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petermolnar
you can save MBs with this
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KartikPrabhu
but... but webfonts can be cached
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petermolnar
Google Fonts, on the other hand, are not ok, and are a massive privacy leak imho
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petermolnar
yes, they are cached
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KartikPrabhu
privacy leak how?
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petermolnar
by making a request on each pageload to google, letting google know every step you make on the internet?
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KartikPrabhu
not each payload if they are cached
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petermolnar
but of course
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mrhenko
KartikPrabhu: Thanks, I'll add myself there.
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petermolnar
it's a 203 return
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mrhenko
KartikPrabhu: Well, that's the beauty of feeds, right. :)
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petermolnar
even cached things generate a request, don't they?
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mrhenko
sknebel: Does your site have an RSS feed?
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petermolnar
and cache is not perfect; most devices are not handling it well enough, especially if they rely on in-memory caching, like some mobile devices
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KartikPrabhu
petermolnar: ok then as you suggest self-host fonts.
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KartikPrabhu
the fact that people use services/CDNs is not an argument again using those features
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KartikPrabhu
my keyboard is broke!
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petermolnar
it is, for me. besides the privacy issues, I do not really have control over those services, which was one of the main reasons for hosting my own stuff
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KartikPrabhu
petermolnar: how is it an argument against using webfonts if you can host them yourself?
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petermolnar
I misunderstood your sentence, that was for the cdn/service based things
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petermolnar
webfonts are not a problem on their own if you self-host them
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KartikPrabhu
I just mean to say that webfonts by themselves are not a problem
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KartikPrabhu
cool! we agree! :)
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petermolnar
they might not be needed though, since there are good options baked in most of the current operating systems, which could be used instead :)
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KartikPrabhu
petermolnar: of course everyone should have good defaults to webfonts
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@PritiRohra
RT @yatil Webmention is now a W3C Candidate Recommendation – Submit implementations! http://www.w3.org/TR/2016/CR-webmention-20160524/ /cc @adactio
(twitter.com/_/status/735052932937322496)
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sknebel
mrhenko: no, no RSS feed yet, only h-feed markup
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@jgerhold
RT @yatil Webmention is now a W3C Candidate Recommendation – Submit implementations! http://www.w3.org/TR/2016/CR-webmention-20160524/ /cc @adactio
(twitter.com/_/status/735066016682770432)
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marcthiele
Hello from Germany
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Loqi
marcthiele: tantek left you a message on 5/12 at 12:58pm: are you coming to the Leaders Summit? Can you RSVP here accordingly? https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Leaders#RSVP http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-12/line/1463083099732
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marcthiele
Question: Did something in/with Bridgy change? Since my last post yesterday, I have multiple appearances of Mentions. Like here https://beyondtellerrand.com/blog/wrap-up-dus2016 or here https://beyondtellerrand.com/blog/textmode-art-a-precursor-of-web-design
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marcthiele
Did not change anything at my end. Just get those multiple entries of the mentions.
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marcthiele
Deleted the entries manually, but in the later example, new appearances came up.
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cjk101010
marcthiele: works for me, no duplicate mentions
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marcthiele
Jap. Deleted them by hand now ;)
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cjk101010
no, I mean I don’t get duplicate mentions via brid.gy
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marcthiele
Had about 20 of two people in the one post and 7 of someone in the other.
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cjk101010
did the 20 mentions come in via twitter?
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marcthiele
I think they did.
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marcthiele
Am going to have an eye on it.
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cjk101010
hm, it works for me, just checked. sorry for not being helpful.
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marcthiele
No worries. Thanks for looking into it. ;)
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GWG
Morning
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sknebel
marcthiele: did they have the same URL? while I don't know about bridgy internals, in general getting multiple webmentions for the same url pair is not unusual
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sknebel
GWG: morning!
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marcthiele
@sknebel I will check next time. But I think they had.
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GWG
Any exciting Indiewebcamp news?
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sknebel
marcthiele: then that's probably something your software should deduplicate automatically
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@marcthiele
RT @jkphl In only 2 days we'll meet for the 1st Homebrew Website Club in Nuremberg. Still plenty of space to join! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-05-25-homebrew-website-club#N.C3.BCrnberg #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/735091089800105984)
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@btconf
RT @jkphl In only 2 days we'll meet for the 1st Homebrew Website Club in Nuremberg. Still plenty of space to join! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-05-25-homebrew-website-club#N.C3.BCrnberg #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/735091761480126465)
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marcthiele
@sknebel now a duplicate is back. With a different timestamp. https://beyondtellerrand.com/blog/textmode-art-a-precursor-of-web-design -> Charis Rooda. Have to take a closer look, what it is.
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marcthiele
Gonna let you know what it was in the end.
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@jgmac1106
Huge shout out to @erinjo and @benwerd on the two year anniversary of @withknown you have helped bring the #indieweb to educators.
(twitter.com/_/status/735100043968053248)
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kodfabrik.se
edited /Planning (+19) "/* Brighton UK */ Adding vote to the second popular Brighton date as well"
(view diff)
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voxpelli
!tell tantek Did you mean the weekend _before_ W3C APAC in your Brighton 2016-09-17 vote? https://indiewebcamp.com/Planning#Brighton_UK
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@w3c
Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439
(twitter.com/_/status/735108163704348672)
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snarfed
hey aaronpk, you're still looking for a way to save ownyourgram, right?
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Loqi
snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 5 hours, 48 minutes ago: see bridgy related issue beginning http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-24#t1464076969474 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-24/line/1464077633215
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snarfed
(i saw, i'd happily debug if i could find his/her domain or twitter username :/ )
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snarfed
aaronpk: re ownyourgram, you're welcome to port it from instagram's API to the REST API on https://granary-demo.appspot.com/ if you want
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snarfed
since it's scraping now
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aaronpk
Oh that's not a bad idea
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snarfed
assuming oyg just polls...?
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aaronpk
no it uses the push api
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aaronpk
so I'll have to create a polling schedule
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snarfed
oh. you'd have to port to polling then, which would still take some work
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snarfed
doable at least
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aaronpk
also the push API is kind of broken
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aaronpk
any tips on how to make a schedule for polling that is smarter than hitting every account every n minutes?
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@Bopuc
RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439
(twitter.com/_/status/735109873923411968)
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snarfed
aaronpk: bridgy does gradual backoff based on how recently it successfully sent a wm
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@levena_evenas
Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) | W3C News https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 seeing
(twitter.com/_/status/735110283841044480)
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@levena_evenas
RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439
(twitter.com/_/status/735110423817551873)
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sknebel
snarfed: marcthiele also had bridgy questions: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-24/line/1464091623982 (seeing duplicates of mentions, I guessed his software doesn't deduplicate Webmentions but I didn't know if that actually is a possible issue with bridgy)
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Loqi
[marcthiele] Question: Did something in/with Bridgy change? Since my last post yesterday, I have multiple appearances of Mentions. Like here https://beyondtellerrand.com/blog/wrap-up-dus2016 or here https://beyondtellerrand.com/blog/textmode-art-a-precursor-of-we...
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snarfed
!tell marcthiele sorry for the dupes! bridgy tries to avoid those, but it's impossible to prevent all of them. you'll want to make your CMS de-dupe them. maybe send a feature request if it doesn't already.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@ChPietsch
New W3C standard Webmention sounds good: “This mechanism is a core building block for a decentralized (social) Web…” https://twitter.com/w3c/status/735108163704348672
(twitter.com/_/status/735112140923752452)
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sknebel
if I read that correctly replies are then always shown to your followers? Or am I misinterpreting the phrasing?
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sknebel
ah, no, they probably mean new @somebody tweets are shown, replies not
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aaronpk
"If you want a reply to be seen by all your followers, you will be able to Retweet it to signal that you intend for it to be viewed more broadly."
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aaronpk
clever
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snarfed
ugh now all of us get to change our char counting code, whee
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snarfed
interesting that they didn't include urls, ie urls will continue to count toward the char limit
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voxpelli
aaronpk: if you include a "If-Modified-Since" header or similar then Granary can also try to optimize things so that the polling doesn't become as costly as otherwise
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@linux_everyday
https://indieauth.com - Sign in with your domain name (using the rel-me-auth http://microformats.org/wiki/relmeauth protocol. #linux_everyday
(twitter.com/_/status/735118433889726464)
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@azaroth42
RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439
(twitter.com/_/status/735120269417713665)
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@kevinmarks
RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439
(twitter.com/_/status/735120438280486912)
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@todrobbins
RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439
(twitter.com/_/status/735120533746896897)
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@hail2u_
やること思い出して起きたらWebmentionのCR出ててテンション上がった みたいなウソつきたくなった
(twitter.com/_/status/735130560792649728)
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@dret
Webmention (#HTML5's Refback/Trackback/Pingback) goes CR https://t.co/uWLqZKegwr; HTML5 overview at 118 active specs https://github.com/dret/HTML5-overview
(twitter.com/_/status/735133006847954944)
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sknebel
[kevinmarks]: the dev.twitter... link is now reachable
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Plan for Drupal 8" by HongPong https://www.drupal.org/node/2687129
benwerd, brucewang, astro, cuibonobo, frzn and [kylewm] joined the channel
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[kylewm]
voxpelli: do you know whether instagram’s web interface supports that stuff? (E-tags or If-Modified-Sinces?)
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[kylewm]
I keep reading that as "Plan 8 from Drupal"
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@roundtrip
RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439
(twitter.com/_/status/735135580401639424)
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[kylewm]
omg, "I messaged the owner of the linkback module namespace, back in May 2001:"
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voxpelli
[kylewm]: no idea :/
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voxpelli
(Time spans in Drupal are interesting 😃)
j12t, tantek, astro, cuibonobo, snarfed and wolftune joined the channel
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kylewm
Could still use if modified since but granary would need to do some caching and hashing
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kylewm
(if they don't)
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@jkphl
Yes! Both the #IndieWeb Hack Day and our 2nd @CoderDojoNBG featured among next months most exciting local events \o/ https://twitter.com/nueww/status/735124739069489153
(twitter.com/_/status/735147529172574209)
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@bsletten
RT @dret Webmention (#HTML5's Refback/Trackback/Pingback) goes CR https://t.co/uWLqZKegwr; HTML5 overview at 118 active specs https://github.com/dret/HTML5-overview
(twitter.com/_/status/735148780123607040)
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aaronpk
that's an interesting way of phrasing it
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@voxpelli
RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439
(twitter.com/_/status/735149446510546947)
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tantek
someone conflating HTML5 and W3C?
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Loqi
tantek: voxpelli left you a message 3 hours, 2 minutes ago: Did you mean the weekend _before_ W3C APAC in your Brighton 2016-09-17 vote? https://indiewebcamp.com/Planning#Brighton_UK http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-24/line/1464098375673
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@tomwiththeweath
RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439
(twitter.com/_/status/735154313257877504)
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tantek.com
edited /Planning (+1) "/* Brighton UK */ fix after/before"
(view diff)
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Loqi
24 May 2016
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@fakebaldur
RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439
(twitter.com/_/status/735158824659652613)
miklb, snarfed, cweiske, KartikPrabhu and pauloppenheim joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: bridgy is not finding my webmention targets now: https://brid.gy/twitter/kartik_prabhu
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KartikPrabhu
any idea what might be wrong?
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: looking
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: the first entry is here https://kartikprabhu.com/notes marked up with syndication links
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KartikPrabhu
strange it found the next page of my notes feed
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: it just hasn't crawled your site since that note/tweet
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KartikPrabhu
oh! I see
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snarfed
it'll find them and resend on next crawl, or you can click crawl now
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KartikPrabhu
I'll tell it to recrawl then thanks!
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KartikPrabhu
does bridgy take into account posting frequency while crawling?
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snarfed
indirectly yes
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snarfed
mostly how recently it's sent you a successful wm
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KartikPrabhu
oh ok! seems I have not posted in about a month!
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snarfed
looks like that's >1mo for you, so it's slow
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KartikPrabhu
cool! thanks for the quick response!
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed++
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snarfed
welcome!
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Loqi
snarfed has 223 karma
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KartikPrabhu
strange that I almost use bridgy as a validator for my site ;)
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KartikPrabhu
hooray! bridgy found new stuff
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Loqi
bridgy has 40 karma
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tantek
ok after a little digging it looks like the only previous "Why" section on /Webmention discussed mostly just "Why webmentions (e.g. instead of Pingback)" rather than why from a user-centric perspective
astro joined the channel
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tantek
so it's probably worth writing up a user-centric /Webmention#Why
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@synvila
This is important news! – Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439
(twitter.com/_/status/735172874709913601)
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@aaronpk
Webmention is now a @W3C Candidate Recommendation! https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ Thanks to everyone for their contributions and feedback!
(twitter.com/_/status/735174476246093825)
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Loqi
[indienews] New post: "Webmention is now a @W3C Candidate Recommendation! https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ Thanks to everyone for their contributions and feedback!" https://aaronparecki.com/2016/05/24/8/webmention
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bear
my IndieWebCamp tshirt order has arrived
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tantek
nice!
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aaronpk
that was sooner than expected!
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aaronpk
how'd they turn out?
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tantek
interesting, this post didn't get caught by Superfeedr: http://tantek.com/2016/145/t1/webmention-candidate-recommendation
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Loqi
[Tantek Çelik] #Webmention is @W3C Candidate Recommendation (CR)!
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aaronpk
the superfeedr search is actually only looking for "indieweb" so i bet the URL indiewebcamp.com didn't trigger it
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tantek
that was my first post since I got webmentions/pingbacks automatic sending to all links in content working, where I happened to link to something with a pingback endpoint (but no webmention endpoint) - the W3C official announcement has a pingback camp
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aaronpk
oh nice
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tantek
s/pingback camp/pingback endpoint and my UI discovered and claimed it would ping it
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: that was my first post since I got webmentions/pingbacks automatic sending to all links in content working, where I happened to link to something with a pingback endpoint (but no webmention endpoint) - the W3C official announcement has a pingback endpoint and my UI discovered and claimed it would ping it
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tantek
but of course, the w3c post does not show any pingbacks so
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aaronpk
it found the webmention endpoint in the spec too right? :)
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bear
the size of the C is large enough that the one edge is curling because of the ink drying
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aaronpk
oh no, that doesn't sound good
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tantek
aaronpk: I think so? I clicked thru too quickly
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bear
it's also possibly a side effect of the shirt - the larger sizes use a lower quality shirt
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cweiske
stretched beyond quality :)
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bear
no - it still looks good - just saying that when the ink dried it did a small edge curl - totally fixable by smoothing
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bear
it just means that this shirt is definitely on the "air dry" list
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tantek
first! :)
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tantek
oh hey I should add /Falcon to the list of implementations since at least it's sending all the webmentions automatically for anything linked to now!
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bear
nice - i'm seeing inbound webmentions - glad I tested that code recently :)
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bear
oh noes - my code is seeing the img href as a possible outbound - yikes
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aaronpk
that's not necessarily wrong
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tantek
why oh noes?
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tantek
I believe KevinMarks receives webmentions for images :)
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aaronpk
if the img advertises a webmention endpoint then you should send it one!
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bear
it's my own domain but a different base url
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snarfed
what's a use case for wming an image?
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bear
sorry - yea, it's not the img itself but rather that my image url is not the same base as the post url so I'm not removing it for beeing same origin
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bear
s/beeing/being/
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Loqi
bear meant to say: sorry - yea, it's not the img itself but rather that my image url is not the same base as the post url so I'm not removing it for being same origin
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aaronpk
you don't send webmentions to yourself?
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bear
I haven't enabled that as right now it causes a loop in my code which I know is present but don't have cycles to debug
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bear
I prioritized adding update wm sends over self sends
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aaronpk
ah cool
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bear
I know it's there and I know I can fix it - but don't want to go down that rabbit hole unless I have a good free day - and those are rare lately
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KevinMarks
my use case is svgur.com - if they embed the svg or png, the wm still sows up
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Loqi
indiewebcamp logo
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aaronpk
oh so you map webmentions of the raw svg URL to a webmention of the HTML page for the image?
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bear
I was noodling about doing that for ics files
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bear
to allow me to manage my calendar using mf2
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KevinMarks
so I put the webmention endpoint in the Link header
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KevinMarks
Also the PNG preview I make for legacy silos that don't understand SVG
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KevinMarks
Link: means you can track mentions of any file type
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KevinMarks
I didn't have to modify known or webmention.herokuapp.com for this, just add link headers and check for links to more than one URL
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bear
I'm glad you replied to that issue - i was trying to decide if I wanted to wade into it with a similar response and then saw your response :)
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KevinMarks
It's a sign of good spec design and isolation that this just works
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bear
nods
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[benatwork]
Lobbing this one into the channel and then running away: so many frameworks use u-* utility class names these days. I’m wondering what people think about using data attributes for microformats in order to remove them from the class namespace?
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bear
my non-js using self views that as an advantage ;)
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@m_ott
RT @aaronpk Webmention is now a @W3C Candidate Recommendation! https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ Thanks to everyone for their contributions and feedback!
(twitter.com/_/status/735186578553733120)
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KevinMarks
benatwork: they should use util- or utility- prefixes. u- is supposed to be a bodge around the careful structure, not a core thing
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Loqi
microformats2-parsing-issues
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KevinMarks
when you see frameworks doing this, send them bugs
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tantek
benatwork - the "data attributes" misconception is pretty well documented, you know they're not for interop right?
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tantek
and that's just the start of the problems with that proposal
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tantek
basically every attempt to do microformats like things *outside* of 'class' has had MUCH worse data quality / adoption results
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tantek
so usually the folks that suggest "hey make a new attribute" or "hey use data-*" have kind of zero experience with making that work across the web
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tantek
kind of curious where you heard the suggestion
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tantek
or from whom
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KevinMarks
who uses u- apart from SUIT?
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KevinMarks
if you're using BEM, u- is an ugly hack, so make it more explicitly ugly
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tantek
benatwork - also, it's a non-problem because u-* class names only mean something in microformats inside h-* classed elements
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tantek
so there are actually no real world problems with "so many frameworks use u-* utility class names these days"
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tantek
again, curious about where that concern came from, because it speaks to someone who hasn't actually found a real world example, and is more about raising a theoretical concern
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tantek
also, suspicious of the origin of the phrase "class namespace"
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tantek
has that old skool XML smell
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KevinMarks
If your supposed BEM class markup relies on u- classes for most of it's layout that's a code smell.
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KevinMarks
maybe hack- would be a better prefix
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tantek
or uhack-
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KevinMarks
so u- is code for "not really inline <style>, honest guv"
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tantek
I have no idea when I manually started sending webmentions for /reply posts
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tantek
I need some way to look up my first in-reply-to NOT to twitter.com
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tantek
sounds like something a database query would be good for :P
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snarfed
grep in-reply-to | grep -v twitter.com ?
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@bengo
RT @aaronpk Webmention is now a @W3C Candidate Recommendation! https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ Thanks to everyone for their contributions and feedback!
(twitter.com/_/status/735192735326601216)
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tantek
looks like this might be my first indieweb to indieweb "comment" http://tantek.com/2013/286/t1/real-time-indieweb-comments
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Loqi
[Tantek Çelik] Well done @aaronpk! Real-time #indieweb comments:
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tantek
ironically I started sending RSVPs before comments
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[benatwork]
back from lunch - to address questions above (cc tantek, kevinmarks):
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[benatwork]
it’s my concern, due to use in Skeleton and internal frameworks at companies like Medium
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tantek.com
edited /Webmention (+639) "/* Implementations */ add self, Falcon"
(view diff)
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tantek
now has to go to an appointment. will check logs later.
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[benatwork]
the data- attribute solution is really just a placeholder / way of saying “is this the only way?"
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[benatwork]
I take the point about interoperability
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tantek
benatwork, many others have tried other attributes, and they've all sucked
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tantek
point is, if you don't put meaning in class, it gets forgotten, rotten, lost
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tantek
years of experience, numerous attempts
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tantek
microdata, rdfa etc.
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[benatwork]
makes sense
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tantek
all worse quality, harder, maintenance than microformats (classic or uf2)
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tantek
so yeah, based on years of real world experiments, class for meaning is the best we've found
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[shaners]
tantek: for future occurrences of this conversation, is this written up on the mf wiki somewhere?
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tantek
in lots of little details
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tantek
no "big story arc" of it
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tantek
because then you get various timewasters nitpicking about rdfa etc.
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tantek
and microdata is pretty much dead since google (the only real bigco advocate motivating anyone) switched to the insanity of JSONLD data islands
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tantek
but it's ok, I'm sure people will retry this experiment with other techniques in the future
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tantek
and then we document those as well
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KevinMarks
so fork skeleton to change u- to util-
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KevinMarks
wheras medium seems ot have defined lots more
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KevinMarks
<div class="metabar-inner u-size1000 u-marginAuto u-xs-left20 u-xs-right20">
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mrhenko
snarfed: I was the one asking this. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-24#t1464076969474 I saw that you've been trying to find my Twitter name or domain while I was away. Domain is blog.henrikcarlsson.se, Twitter handle is @synvila.
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KevinMarks
so I'd say creeping u- in CSS is a warning, and using hack- or util- is better practice
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snarfed
mrhenko: hi! see if anything in https://brid.gy/about#missing helps?
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KevinMarks
on the other hand, a few stray cf or size12of12 properties in the parsed mf isn't terrible either - no parser is looking for them
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KevinMarks
<article class="u-sizeViewHeightMin100 postArticle postArticle--full" lang="en"><header class="container u-size740 is-underMetabar"><div class="row u-showOnMobile"><div class="col u-xs-size12of12 u-xs-bottom10">
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mrhenko
snarfed: Thanks, I checked that listed before and as far as I can tel neither applies in my case.
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KevinMarks
not sure that is a problem with microformats so much as creeping layout issues
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snarfed
mrhenko: hmm ok. got an example that you think bridgy should have sent but didn't?
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mrhenko
snared: Here's an example: http://blog.henrikcarlsson.se/2016/05/7887/ Compare the results to the tweet: https://twitter.com/synvila/status/734708904798605312
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@synvila
Är det nÃ¥n som känner till nÃ¥t problem med strlen i PHP och "svenska" tecken? (Ã¥, ä, ö etc.) Verkar räkna fel.
(twitter.com/_/status/734708904798605312)
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@regisrob
RT @w3c Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) https://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439
(twitter.com/_/status/735199308644024321)
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KevinMarks
oh, sorry 389
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mrhenko
snarfed: So the reply to my post gets backfed. So does my reply to the reply but then the reply to my reply (and all subsequent replies) gets omitted by Bridgy.
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KevinMarks
reading the 389 .u- rules there, the prefix should be .style-
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KevinMarks
they're shortcuts for explict style rules, that are not structured
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snarfed
mrhenko: not sure yet why those responses are missing. sorry for the trouble! i'll keep looking
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snarfed
if you want them beforehand, you're always welcome to send them manually. https://brid.gy/about#source-urls
Pierre-O, mlncn, snarfed, arthurspooner, snarfed1, KartikPrabhu and wolcen joined the channel
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mrhenko
snarfed: Thanks, I had missed that that was possible to do. And don't lose any sleep over this. And thanks for creating Bridgy. It's a great service!
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snarfed1
you're welcome!
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@sandhawke
RT @dret Webmention (#HTML5's Refback/Trackback/Pingback) goes CR https://t.co/uWLqZKegwr; HTML5 overview at 118 active specs https://github.com/dret/HTML5-overview
(twitter.com/_/status/735217268871860225)
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Loqi
When u- means <style> 2016-05-24
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KevinMarks
thoughts anyone>
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Webrocker
@KevinMarks +1 for style, or hack, or even tool-
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Webrocker
@KevinMarks thx for that. I just stumbled over this (use "u" as "utility") in a new project, where some bem itcss
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Webrocker
@KevinMarks sccs stuff is happening.
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@gslin
Webmention is a W3C Candidate Recommendation (Call for Implementation) | W3C News http://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/5439 via @nuzzel
(twitter.com/_/status/735230190813470721)
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KartikPrabhu
200 to 300 "utility classes" sounds like bad CSS writing
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KevinMarks
well, a lot of them are like bootstrap x BEM
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KevinMarks
size1of10 size5of12
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KevinMarks
fraction to % mappings
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KevinMarks
also u-xs-size80x80 u-sm-size80x80 u-md-size80x80 u-lg-size80x80
singpolyma, KartikPrabhu and degrey joined the channel
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degrey
hi everyone! do any of you have suggestions re: code for a simple image gallery in kirby?
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KevinMarks
hi, is that Elora?
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degrey
hi kevin! it is!
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degrey
thank you!
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KevinMarks
what is kirby?
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Loqi
Kirby is a filed-based CMS https://indiewebcamp.com/Kirby
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degrey
i know basic html/css but php+cms is throwing me for a bit of a loop, i'm afraid
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degrey
thanks @loqi!
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Loqi
you're welcome
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KevinMarks
not sure if our kirby users are here at the moment, as I think they're in germany
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degrey
ahh i see :)
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KevinMarks
but if you have examples of html/css to look at a lot of people here can help
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degrey
i should try in the morning, perhaps
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Loqi
it is probable
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degrey
i appreciate that @kevinmarks, thank you!
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KevinMarks
did you find gallery plugins you liked?
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KevinMarks
aaronpk was working on image grids, but I think you likely want more space
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degrey
yes, some space between them would be really nice
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degrey
I haven't really found a plugin that I like though I think a simple one would suffice
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techlifeweb
Kirby looks interesting. I'll have to check that one out.
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KevinMarks
you presumably want something more instagram minimal than pinterest dense?
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degrey
@techlifeweb I've really loved it so far!
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degrey
@kevinmarks Definitely. :)
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KevinMarks
your http://www.erdegrey.com now is gallery in the fine art sende
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degrey
I've come across a number of plugins on Github, but with my knowledge of code if it doesn't have a screenshot I have no idea what's going on
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degrey
yes, something like that @kevinmarks -- though i also like how jessica hische has her gallery set up, so i imagine somewhere in the middle is ideal
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degrey
you can see that here http://jessicahische.is/working
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KevinMarks
you may be able to get way with using flexbox to do that kind of thing
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KevinMarks
I did http://svgur.com/ as the simplest grid possible
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degrey
i like simple :)
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degrey
hadn't heard of flexbox! looking that up now
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aaronpk
flexbox is magic
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aaronpk
it's everything i wanted css to be able to do years ago
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degrey
it looks so good!
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degrey
thank you!!
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degrey
i think my only question from here is how to integrate that into kirby's system, but i imagine i can try to link up with the kirby users in the morning :D
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degrey
thanks so much everyone
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tantek
tries to catchup on logs, from today
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Loqi
When u- means <style> 2016-05-24
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KevinMarks
see if the tone is helpful enough
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KevinMarks
I am tempted to write another one 'bootstrap: 20 ways of saying colspan'
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tantek
that might be one of the most inefficient uses of CSS I've ever seen, for no additional utility
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tantek
(ironically, by the name/prefix)
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tantek
I feel like this is an Eric Meyer worthy heads-up
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tantek
and heck if such framework authors want to use classes for inline styling, why not use "s-" instead?
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tantek
for style this with this shorthand width/height/etc.?
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KevinMarks
textColorNormal{color:rgba(0,0,0,.44) and textColorDarkest{color:rgba(0,0,0,.9) is a different kind of enraging
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@rivettp
RT @dret Webmention (#HTML5's Refback/Trackback/Pingback) goes CR https://t.co/uWLqZKegwr; HTML5 overview at 118 active specs https://github.com/dret/HTML5-overview
(twitter.com/_/status/735249442048069632)
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KevinMarks
so any tonal things, or should I POSSE it?
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tantek
no tonal problems, but not sure it expresses the problem in a way that web developers would care?
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tantek
or: you're burying the lede
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tantek
I think it's better to lead with the #1 problem: these frameworks are encouraging web devs to lie to themselves
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tantek
e.g.: You keep using that word "utility", I do not that think that word means what you think it means.
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KevinMarks
true, I do talk about mf2 a lot before getting to it
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tantek
because when you use a classnames like .u-block just to style something {display:block!important} or u-height18 to style {height:18px!important}, you're not actually adding any functionality. you're not adding any utility. those are not utility classes. they are inline style shorthands.
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tantek
class="u-block!important; u-height18!important" is just another way of saying style="display:block; height:18px"
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tantek
(also KevinMarks, not <style>, but style= )
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tantek
except now you've invented yet another syntax for styling things
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miklb
KevinMarks lol @ that classes for text colors. Definitely not using Sass, or using it very wrong.
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tantek
so instead of "just" using CSS, whoever maintains the code has to be able to read whatever u-mishmashCamelCase-hyphy-or_under_ syntax and interpret it
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KevinMarks
did you see the u-xs-size80x80{width:80px!important;height:80px!important} u-lg-size80x80{width:80px!important;height:80px!important} etc
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tantek
not only is that NOT adding utility, it is actually subtracting, removing utility, by adding more cognitive load for the web developer
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tantek
KevinMarks, yes, you don't need to talk a lot about mf2, or even at all
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tantek
you can completely deconstruct this idiotic inline styling via class approach all on its own
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tantek
using their own "utility" terminology
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KevinMarks
then the mf2 part becomes an appendix?
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tantek
much better if you keep such a deconstruction simpler, and not confound it with tangential, background, or secondary issues
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tantek
if that
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KevinMarks
well, it was Ben asking that that started me looking
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tantek
even if mf2 didn't exist, this Skeleton or whatever approach is abhorrent all on its own
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tantek
KevinMarks: not even an appendix
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tantek
you could make it a Part 2 (second post) if you want
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KevinMarks
see, I don't feel CSS-savvy enough to take on that whole thing
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tantek
like "How did I discover this problem? Someone trying to put *actual* utility, actual meaning in their class attributes"
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KevinMarks
you or Eric could do that better
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tantek
right. all you have to do is keep the point simple and focused, and then we can pass it up to Eric to massage it further
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@raamdev
@WuselDusel83 Danke! I was really happy to get webmention support added and I've started following IndieWeb community more closely. :)
(twitter.com/_/status/735254716318371841)
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tantek
KevinMarks, you can show the ridiculousness of the CSS just by showing it all inline like you do
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tantek
that is very powerful
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tantek
use small print for it too just to show how much there i
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tantek
s/there i/there is
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: use small print for it too just to show how much there is
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tantek
and maybe even provide both the raw, and explicitly line-broken for better readability just to demonstrate how long and ridiculous it is
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KevinMarks
u-fontSizeMicro
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tantek
start your blog post at "lurking within frameworks that ..."
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singpolyma
u-big-fontSizeMicro u-small-fontSizeNormal u-medium-fontSizeMicro ;) gotta be responsive
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tantek
KevinMarks: s/When u- means <style>/When u- means style=/
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tantek
and see the above for more expansion on that
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tantek
feel free to borrow my words
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tantek
alright lets see what else we can filter out
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tantek
in addition to rejecting any u- with capital letters, how about rejecting any with numbers too? http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#ignore_u-camelCase_properties
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Loqi
microformats2-parsing-issues
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tantek
e.g. microformats2 parsers MUST IGNORE u-* classnames where the * has any numerals (0-9).
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KevinMarks
I like 'reject things that aren't URLs' for u-
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KevinMarks
if we can define that
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tantek
nope that's much harder
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tantek
so I'd say punt on that
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tantek
because of relative URLs etc