#indiewebcamp 2016-05-19

2016-05-19 UTC
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+113) "/* Features */ Facebook Page" (view diff)
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tantek "Now you can save an event as a draft and schedule when it's published"
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aaronpk oh nice
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tantek like why wouldn't that work automatically for any post type?
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2016-05-18-fb-page-events.png]]""
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gRegorLove What is draft?
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Loqi A draft in the context of the indieweb refers to a draft post, a post that an author has partially written, or otherwise does not consider finished https://indiewebcamp.com/draft
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tantek I don't know if "normal" users can create event drafts and schedule them
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gRegorLove Hm, /schedule should probably redirect to /scheduling instead of /2014/UK/Schedule, right?
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tantek gRegorLove: check What Links To This Page before changing that
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tantek and fix the things that link to it
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gRegorLove Ok
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gRegorLove Doesn't look like anything links to /schedule
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tantek.com edited /Facebook_Page (+361) "Now you can save an event as a draft and schedule when it's published - now with screenshot!" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /schedule (-6) "r scheduling" (view diff)
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tantek gRegorLove: could you fix up these? https://indiewebcamp.com/Special:WhatLinksHere/Schedule (always check the capitalized version when dealing with MediaWiki)
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gregorlove.com created /delayed_posting (+24) "r" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Oh, Mediawiki
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gregorlove.com edited /2011/Introductions (+14) "fix schedule link" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /2012 (+17) "added <nowiki> around [[Schedule]] to prevent wiki link, maintain historical list" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /2012/UK (+17) "added <nowiki> around [[Schedule]] to prevent wiki link, maintain historical list" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /2013/UK (+8) "fix schedule link" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Category:Session_Notes (+5) "fix schedule link" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Leaving the link on /2013-created
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gregorlove.com edited /Schedule (-3) "r scheduling" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] I was having a chat about scheduled posts with a friend today. I think there's a tool there
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KevinMarks or rather, there are a lot of bad commercial tools
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@rrrrrrrix I'm at another #indieweb homebrew website club!: http://notes.whatthefuck.computer/1463619780.0-note.html (twitter.com/_/status/733102019330768896)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Welcome to Homebrew Website Club SF - we'll talk about what we've done on our own sites (twitter.com/_/status/733108335495524352)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Indiewebcamp Dusseldorf happened last weekend https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/D%C3%BCsseldorf https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7043/26266222363_accec9b742_o.gif (twitter.com/_/status/733108601150164992)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Homebrew Website Club is based on the Homebrew Computer Club that happened in the 1970s and seeded the computer revolution (twitter.com/_/status/733108814279512064)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: a lot of people just use social media, but there are some of us who hack on our websites, so we do it for the web (twitter.com/_/status/733108977320513536)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Indiewebcamp is more based on Barcamp - a structured conference over 2 days where the agenda is made by who arrives (twitter.com/_/status/733109331294621697)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: We start indiewebcamp with demos and discussions. The 2nd day is hack day, and we end with demos (twitter.com/_/status/733109521988653056)
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@miklb If you’ve been curious about #indieweb check @kevinmarks timeline right now as @t outlines what is, thoughts behind it. (twitter.com/_/status/733109705086795776)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Indieweb summit is coming up in Portland http://indiewebcamp.com/2016 followed by the w3c SocialWG meeting (twitter.com/_/status/733109746513924096)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Webmention is going to w3c Candidate recommendation (twitter.com/_/status/733109831683477506)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @KathyEms: My app is at http://tranquil-caverns25242.herokuapp.com determining your outfit for your next adventure (twitter.com/_/status/733110149133574144)
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@uranther RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Webmention is going to w3c Candidate recommendation (twitter.com/_/status/733110259049476096)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @KathyEms: you enter your temperature and activity it filters your activities by temp and what you wore before (twitter.com/_/status/733110369401638913)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @KathyEms: currently the data is in a static variable, but I'll add it to a database soon (twitter.com/_/status/733110526960525313)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @KathyEms: currently the data is in a static variable, but I'll add it to a database soon (twitter.com/_/status/733110925566316548)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: can you save the outfit as a mini blog post - like instagram's #OOTD outfit post? (twitter.com/_/status/733111159906271232)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @KathyEms: I do take photos of my outfits so recording that too would make sense (twitter.com/_/status/733111693832773633)
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tantek Kevinmarks demoing
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tantek KevinMarks: I remote attended IWC Düsseldorf
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andicascadesf The Cure!
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tantek KevinMarks: I was inspired by Julie's t-shirts
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Loqi andicascadesf: tantek left you a message on 5/12 at 12:58pm: are you coming to the Leaders Summit? Can you RSVP here accordingly? https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Leaders#RSVP http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-12/line/1463083099732
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tantek KevinMarks: Cat Division
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tantek KevinMarks: and so I made a thing
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tantek ... that reads the IWC IRC logs
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tantek and shows activity
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tantek Julie is http://julieannenoying.com/
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Loqi Julie Anne
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tantek http://www.kevinmarks.com/joyofsparks.html
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Loqi The Joy of Sparks 2016-05-08
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tantek original data from Joy Division shirt was radio telescope data from a pulsar
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tantek KevinMarks: the other thing I did this past week
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tantek ... the BBC said they are getting rid of their food site
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tantek ... including lots of recipes
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@KathyEms RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @KathyEms: My app is at http://tranquil-caverns25242.herokuapp.com determining your outfit for your next adventure (twitter.com/_/status/733112993441972224)
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@KathyEms RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @KathyEms: you enter your temperature and activity it filters your activities by temp and what you wore before (twitter.com/_/status/733113003822878721)
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@KathyEms RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @KathyEms: currently the data is in a static variable, but I'll add it to a database soon (twitter.com/_/status/733113015910850561)
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@KathyEms RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @KathyEms: I do take photos of my outfits so recording that too would make sense (twitter.com/_/status/733113028288208896)
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tantek KevinMarks: searches for recipes, British cuisine
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tantek ... e.g. Mince pie ice cream
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tantek ... BBC has two different recipe XML formats they abandoned
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tantek ... but then they did use BEM
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tantek what is BEM?
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Loqi BEM is a naming convention for HTML classes block--element-modifier for people wary of CSS inheritance https://indiewebcamp.com/BEM
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tantek KevinMarks: so I looked at this and thought this is not that far from h-recipe
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tantek KevinMarks: so I wrote a thing on my own site www.unmung.com to parse them
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tantek ... and it converts them to h-recipe!
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tantek ... I've translated the BBC recipes to h-recipe
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tantek ... I adapted my Indie Card thing to display the result of the h-recipe transform, much nicer
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tantek ... the next thing for me to do is to make a "Post this to my own site" button
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tantek ... this also helped me think of things to suggest adding to h-recipe
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tantek KevinMarks: One more thing
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tantek ... Noterlive, the site I did to do live tweeting and blogging
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tantek ... I have a lot of these things where I show transcripts of events I've been to
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tantek ... like I did the Google I/O keynotes
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tantek KevinMarks: The way this site works is, well it's a mess because I designed it
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tantek ... if you give it hashtag it looks up people's names
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tantek ... it looks ups your actual name and website from your twitter handle
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tantek ... and then you say what they say
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: http://www.noterlive.com/ is how Iive tweet events (twitter.com/_/status/733114217474207744)
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tantek ... and then you hit return
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tantek ... and it posts what you said to Twitter
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tantek ... and collects in HTML down below
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tantek @KathyEms: it appends it right?
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tantek KevinMarks: Yes it appends it and then I copy paste that HTML to my site
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tantek ... The thing I added is chaining them on Twitter, as a series of replies to myself
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tantek ... The nice thing is that these collapse then in the main feed
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tantek ... My goal for the next two weeks is to get it to support micropub to post to my site and other people's sites
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tantek ... and to do the same thing with that h-recipe thing so I can post BBC recipes to my site
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I made a thing to show indiewebcamp irc logs in Joy Division Unknown pleasure style: http://www.kevinmarks.com/joyofsparks.html (twitter.com/_/status/733115267086225408)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: I also made a custom parser to rescue http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/ into h-recipe (twitter.com/_/status/733115448410116097)
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@WillaCassandra_ RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: http://www.noterlive.com/ is how Iive tweet events (twitter.com/_/status/733115528089325568)
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@Valerie_Janelle RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: http://www.noterlive.com/ is how Iive tweet events (twitter.com/_/status/733115529527996417)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @kevinmarks: here's what they look like http://www.unmung.com/indiecard?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Ffood%2Frecipes%2Fsteamedtreaclesponge_81747 from http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/steamedtreaclesponge_81747 raw json http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Ffood%2Frecipes%2Fsteamedtreaclesponge_81747&html=&pretty=on (twitter.com/_/status/733115744175726592)
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tantek [@rrrrrrrix] is speaking
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @rrrrrrrix: I rewrote my site backend again http://notes.whatthefuck.computer/ it exposes my weird quantified self data to the world (twitter.com/_/status/733116171030007814)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @rrrrrrrix: it generates static html on mysite from scratch so it take longer and longer each time (twitter.com/_/status/733116319562932224)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @rrrrrrrix: I have a lot of differnt posts types, waling reading and more - if I want to syndicate it uses brid.gy (twitter.com/_/status/733116568738123776)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @rrrrrrrix: it gets sent out to twitter and facebook, and I pull likes back too (twitter.com/_/status/733116769620099073)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @rrrrrrrix: so now I cna go and backfill the indiewebcamp pages to say thsi supports them (twitter.com/_/status/733116855771107328)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @rrrrrrrix: It's all static so I could theoretically host it on S3 or github, though it is on a page on my own site right now (twitter.com/_/status/733117063380774912)
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boffosocko.com edited /site-deaths (+1065) "Planned death of Symantec Personal Identity Port" (view diff)
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@KathyEms #indieweb The git repo for Adventure Wear App https://github.com/kathy-ems/adventure_wear (twitter.com/_/status/733117184319217664)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @rrrrrrrix: I like low contrast type in my code as I work on it late at night - my primary OS is this crazy LISP environment (twitter.com/_/status/733117500586627073)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @rrrrrrrix: it's called Arcology- it's on my own git repository, not github (twitter.com/_/status/733117625073557504)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @rrrrrrrix: I'm probably going to have to stop usingg emacs lisp as I have over 100M of files to translate into this (twitter.com/_/status/733118003978612737)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Static sites are great and more and more common, but you can't set response codes for redirects or 410 (twitter.com/_/status/733118902016847873)
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@rrrrrrrix Just gave a demo of Arcology at #indieweb Homebrew Website Club and no one laughed at me! (http://notes.whatthefuck.computer/1463624160.0-note.html) (twitter.com/_/status/733119181655171072)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: one thing we came up with for webmentions is to delete a comment using an http 410 Gone (twitter.com/_/status/733119194468909056)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: and then send a webmention to the original place that you sent the webmention so it can delete the comment (twitter.com/_/status/733119279437078529)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: to enable 410 for static sites, we could use a Meta http-equiv for the status header http://indiewebcamp.com/meta_http-equiv_status (twitter.com/_/status/733119430394286080)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I wrote this up as a spec on the indiewebcamp Wiki - you publish <meta http-equiv="Status" content="410 Gone"/> in the head (twitter.com/_/status/733119738608504834)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you are serving the site, you should return this code. Similarly, if you receive this tag you should treat it as a 410 (twitter.com/_/status/733119915096453120)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I tweeted it at 5am this morning, and within an hour @tommorris implemented it for Django (twitter.com/_/status/733120059741245441)
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KevinMarks does twitter return 410?
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@IMJACKTG RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I wrote this up as a spec on the indiewebcamp Wiki - you publish <meta http-equiv="Status" content="410 Gone"/> in the head (twitter.com/_/status/733120790946795520)
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@IMJACKTG RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: if you are serving the site, you should return this code. Similarly, if you receive this tag you should treat it as a 410 (twitter.com/_/status/733120792087646208)
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@IMJACKTG RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: I tweeted it at 5am this morning, and within an hour @tommorris implemented it for Django (twitter.com/_/status/733120792771334144)
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@andigalpern "Never underestimate the power of going to the beach." @t #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/733121341042262016)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Never underestimate the power of going to the beach. (twitter.com/_/status/733121543832756224)
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[ari] tantek: ^^^
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: In s3 you can set headers for a page (twitter.com/_/status/733122022893604864)
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@IMJACKTG RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: Never underestimate the power of going to the beach. (twitter.com/_/status/733122135909097472)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: those look like the ones that meta http-equiv as specified at the moment, so we should push for adding new ones (twitter.com/_/status/733122199352160256)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: on my website https://aribadernatal.com I have been trying to collect various things: stars, likes and so on (twitter.com/_/status/733122460355309569)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: (twitter.com/_/status/733122481855340544)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: (twitter.com/_/status/733122484317347841)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: I use IFTTTT to take posts frome the various silos and make it a post on my wordpress site (twitter.com/_/status/733122617721360384)
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tantek favorites.aribadernatal.com
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tantek PESOSing all his likes stars favorites into his own site
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: pocket, github, youtube, kickstarter and son on get fetched and posted ot my own site so I have a copy (twitter.com/_/status/733122776568074240)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: I can search across all of the things I have collected; I have pages and feeds for each topic (twitter.com/_/status/733122898832019457)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: it looks like a personal Pinterest (twitter.com/_/status/733122951923535872)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: after I built all this I showed my wife it and she said "isn't that Pinterest?" (twitter.com/_/status/733123098669645825)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: I use Amber, a wordpress plugin that makes a snapshot of sites you link to on your own site (twitter.com/_/status/733123263740694528)
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GWG That sounds interesting. I should investigate that.
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@handsonl1fe RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: I use IFTTTT to take posts frome the various silos and make it a post on my wordpress site (twitter.com/_/status/733123423384244224)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: I wrote a pst about using Amber to save links: https://aribadernatal.com/2016/02/15/saving-favorites-amber-edition/ (twitter.com/_/status/733123564568743937)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: (twitter.com/_/status/733123579064266752)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: (twitter.com/_/status/733123581333344258)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @aribadernatal: most sites I link to don't actually work to be archived for various different reasons (twitter.com/_/status/733124688440918016)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: personal archives is broadly seen as a legitimate reason to ignore robots.txt—you aren't spidering, you're fetching as a user (twitter.com/_/status/733125002325823488)
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@ssp2158 Diving into the Unknown http://srikanthperinkulam.com/indieweb/diving-into-the-unknown (twitter.com/_/status/733122799456243712)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @t: time for a photo http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/homebrew-website-club-sf-2016-05-18 (twitter.com/_/status/733127719840538624)
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@WPSiteExpert Trackbacks vs Pingbacks vs Webmentions for WordPress #wordpress #tech #wp #IT https://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/trackbacks-pingbacks-webmentions/ https://twitter.com/WPSiteExpert/status/733129366784356353/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/733129366784356353)
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KevinMarks I liek the idea of a distributed web where we all cache what we link to
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@kevinmarks Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club SF http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-05-18.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/733130239228805120)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Notes from tonight's Homebrew Website Club SF http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-05-18.html #indieweb" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/notes-from-tonights-homebrew-website-club-sf-hwc2016-05-18html-indieweb
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@sriperinkulam Diving into the Unknown http://srikanthperinkulam.com/indieweb/diving-into-the-unknown-2 (twitter.com/_/status/733128331302854656)
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[kylewm]1 What happens if I do this?
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@andigalpern RT @iwontsignuphere shiny happy people @indiewebcamp düsseldorf <3 @btconf #indiewebcamp #btconf https://www.flickr.com/photos/tollwerk/26266222363/sizes/o/ https://twitter.com/iwontsignuphere/status/729058305650364420/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/733143690919612417)
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M-RyanRix KevinMarks: I've considered dual linking between the source and Archive in parentheses
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@_masaka IIIF, Webmentions, and Collabo btw Inst & Research Communities http://lombardpress.org/2016/04/16/iiif-webmentions/ 画像などに対して外部が持つ注釈やサービスをwebmentionで通知。ツール、supplement仕様案も (twitter.com/_/status/733158789029892096)
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@knagasaki RT @_masaka IIIF, Webmentions, and Collabo btw Inst & Research Communities http://lombardpress.org/2016/04/16/iiif-webmentions/ 画像などに対して外部が持つ注釈やサービスをwebmentionで通知。ツール、supplement仕様案も (twitter.com/_/status/733161110237405184)
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@ta_niiyan RT @_masaka IIIF, Webmentions, and Collabo btw Inst & Research Communities http://lombardpress.org/2016/04/16/iiif-webmentions/ 画像などに対して外部が持つ注釈やサービスをwebmentionで通知。ツール、supplement仕様案も (twitter.com/_/status/733174499781136384)
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@rrrrrrrix RT @andigalpern "Never underestimate the power of going to the beach." @t #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/733204925413384192)
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M-RyanRix KevinMarks: let me know about the decentralized web thing. If it's an issue I'll grab a ticket. Sounds like some Matrix folks will be there so it'll be fun
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petermolnar what is print?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "print" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Lh
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petermolnar what is printing?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "printing" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Li
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petermolnar hm
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petermolnar printing is a method of creating something offline from something online.
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loqi.me created /printing (+100) "prompted by petermolnar https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-19/line/1463647891185 and dfn added by petermolnar" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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cweiske our definitions of offline and online seem to differ
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petermolnar hm?
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petermolnar printed stuff is pretty offline
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cweiske for me, offline and online have to do with network connections
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petermolnar fair point, terminology issues apply
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petermolnar I wanted to create that page to add print-friendly CSS ideas
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petermolnar eg. print URLs
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petermolnar for standard links
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sknebel What is offline?
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Loqi offline is anytime you're not online and connected to the internet https://indiewebcamp.com/offline
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sknebel that page could use some love re service workers, save-as-file-formats etc
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sknebel What is service worker?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "service worker" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Lj
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sknebel A service worker is a [[javascript]] script that runs in the background, independent of tabs and can be used for e.g. push notifications and [[offline]] functionality.
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loqi.me created /service_worker (+192) "prompted by sknebel https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-19/line/1463648411726 and dfn added by sknebel" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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KartikPrabhu sknebel: how is service worker "independent of tabs"?
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sknebel as in, there is only one instance per page and they can be active even if no tab with the site is opened?
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petermolnar.eu edited /printing (+1370) "adding CSS printing tips" (view diff)
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sknebel I'm not very familiar with the tech (haven't used it), so my understanding might be wrong/misleading
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KartikPrabhu i am not so sure about the last part "they can be active even if no tab with the site is opened"
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sknebel I thought for things like receiving push notifications
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sknebel maybe "active" is the wrong word?
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sknebel if you have a better definition feel free to change it
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KartikPrabhu i don't think the service worker script runs unless you are on the site, but I might be wrong too
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sknebel k, I'll have to look that up more in detail then later
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KartikPrabhu sknebel: I am also trying to wrap my head around service workers so feel free to correct me :)
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KevinMarks notifications can wake them up afaik: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Push_API/Using_the_Push_API
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KevinMarks https://slightlyoff.github.io/ServiceWorker/spec/service_worker/ says "Service workers may be started by user agents without an attached document and may be killed by the user agent at nearly any time. "
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Loqi [Alex Russell] Service Workers Nightly
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KartikPrabhu hmm
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petermolnar sounds like something that will soon be abused and will overload my browser :(
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: browsers usually ask you permission about notifications. FF does
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petermolnar yes. and you enable it now, for, let's say, The Verge, forget about it, and in 3 months, you'll get a whole lot of notifications, because they realized this is a new ad display position
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KartikPrabhu petermolnar: that is a problem with any sort of notification system so it is not new
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petermolnar indeed; the only new in this case it that now it's after my browser
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KartikPrabhu it is not "after" your browser, your browser is acting as notification system
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KartikPrabhu that is like saying "spam" is after my email client
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petermolnar not really. email spam is still email, it's still the same thing the client was invented for. notifications in the browser is a relatively new thing, and I don't think it was intended to be like this originally. So no, it's a good analogy.
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@fakebaldur RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: to enable 410 for static sites, we could use a Meta http-equiv for the status header http://indiewebcamp.com/meta_http-equiv_status (twitter.com/_/status/733255833589547008)
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@jkphl @loicmathaud Haha, yeah! Quite a lot going on recently. Our @indiewebcamp could've of interest for you. Next year again ... ;) (twitter.com/_/status/733263040016228353)
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@loicmathaud @jkphl Nurenberg becomes a nice place to be to talk about Web things :) I'll try to come to @indiewebcamp next year! (twitter.com/_/status/733263978701455361)
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@jkphl @loicmathaud That's excactly what we're working on! :D Would be nice to have you on board again! +@indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/733284430874284032)
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning #indiewebcamp
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Publishing Your Content Online and Syndicating it Elsewhere" http://wiobyrne.com/publishing-your-content-online-and-syndicating-it-elsewhere/ (from https://aaronparecki.com/2016/05/19/2/)
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@derPepo @planio @_kevinatari @mkuehnel und weniger indieweb :) (twitter.com/_/status/733301029027106817)
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@jkphl I'm admittedly a particular kind of proud to get feedback like this. It was worth all efforts then! #nueww #indieweb https://twitter.com/loicmathaud/status/733263978701455361 (twitter.com/_/status/733304986571018241)
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aaronpk alright, I wrote up some details on the media endpoint. curious to get some other eyes on this: http://micropub.net/draft/#media-endpoint
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Micropub
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aaronpk this is how it works in Quill and p3k now, although I haven't launched those changes yet, they're only in my development copy. I'll try to push those live today.
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@ingodibella RT @jkphl I'm admittedly a particular kind of proud to get feedback like this. It was worth all efforts then! #nueww #indieweb https://twitter.com/loicmathaud/status/733263978701455361 (twitter.com/_/status/733315043148898306)
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@nueww RT @jkphl I'm admittedly a particular kind of proud to get feedback like this. It was worth all efforts then! #nueww #indieweb https://twitter.com/loicmathaud/status/733263978701455361 (twitter.com/_/status/733315269469278208)
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, aaronpk why fetch it via a webmention configuration query and not as a seperate endpoint?
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ben_thatmustbeme maybe should mention something about an implementation SHOULD ignore requests that don't have a bearer token, or something about security as it could be discovered accidently
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ben_thatmustbeme or MUST
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@henne RT @jkphl I'm admittedly a particular kind of proud to get feedback like this. It was worth all efforts then! #nueww #indieweb https://twitter.com/loicmathaud/status/733263978701455361 (twitter.com/_/status/733321310261149696)
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aaronpk What do you mean not as a separate endpoint?
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jeena.net edited /events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club (+55) "/* Where */ Göteborg" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: discoverable from a rel= or header
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: not that i would recommend it, but its something i feel like others will likely ask
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aaronpk that's actually originally how I implemented it, then people suggested switching it
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jeena.net edited /events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club (+37) "/* Göteborg */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme i just want to make sure there is a good justification for it
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-05#t1462474904691
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GWG Afternoon
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willnorris hey
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Loqi willnorris: tantek left you a message on 11/29 at 1:26pm: Go get your IndieWebCamp SF ticket from Eventbrite! http://indiewebcamp.eventbrite.com/ http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-29/line/1448832412033
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aaronpk whoa
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aaronpk welcome back willnorris :-)
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willnorris hah, that's an old message :)
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GWG willnorris, you were one of the first people whose code I dismantled for my own purposes
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GWG Hope things are going well
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willnorris haha. which code was it?
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snarfed hey willnorris!
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snarfed willnorris++ for https://github.com/willnorris/microformats
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Loqi willnorris has 15 karma
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GWG willnorris, the WordPress facepile.
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willnorris sorry if my connection is churning a bit... trying to znc (irc relay) working
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GWG Tell me if you need help, I run znc
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willnorris hah, thanks snarfed :) trying to land datetime support while I'm at OSCON this week
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willnorris well, more specifically, the value class pattern support for datetime. Turns out to be a bit complicated
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willnorris Does anyone know if Andy Leap is still around anywhere? His URL is offline and has been for a while, so not clear to me if he is still interested in indie web stuff anymore. Hence why is just forked his work
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willnorris s/why is/why I/
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Loqi willnorris meant to say: Does anyone know if Andy Leap is still around anywhere? His URL is offline and has been for a while, so not clear to me if he is still interested in indie web stuff anymore. Hence why I just forked his work
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GWG snarfed, I am working on Syndication Links . Do you have any suggestions?
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snarfed GWG: cool! sorry, no, no itches there right now
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GWG I am trying to decide if I should abandon the icon font in favor of SVG or punt that again.
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GWG I don't know why I have so much trouble deciding how to implement that
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aaronpk let me try that again for Loqi
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aaronpk is this something that adactio should fix in his markup, or should a consumer handle this case? https://adactio.com/notes/10678
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Loqi [Jeremy Keith] Cape Cod clams.
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aaronpk there's an img tag with alt text, but the alt text is the same as the text in the actual post
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aaronpk so the p-name ends up having the text twice
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bear that feels like a normal pattern for photo captions
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bear so if the entire post is a photo, the caption becomes the body
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snarfed relevant to our interests here: "The Mobile Web: State of the Union. " google i/o talk today in 2h (2PM PST), live streamed. https://events.google.com/io2016/schedule#day2/947f7532-77f8-e511-a517-00155d5066d7
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aaronpk where's the livestream URL?
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aaronpk oh I see, it plays in the popyp
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aaronpk popup
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aaronpk why does google hate permalinks?
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hs0ucy aaronpk: It's also redundant for screen readers.
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aaronpk oh yeah good point. so maybe better would be alt=""?
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hs0ucy aaronpk: Yep, if it's implied.
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snarfed also "How AMP achieves its speed," 2pm pst tomorrow. https://events.google.com/io2016/schedule#day3/fc621cfd-0bef-e511-a517-00155d5066d7
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gRegorLove "...the alt attribute's value should never contain text that could be considered the image's caption, title, or legend." https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/embedded-content.html#alt
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tantek wow that's pretty horrible "scare" advice that's more likely to result in empty alt attributes than anything useful. after all an empty string "" contains no text that could be considered the image's caption, title, or legend
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tantek gRegorLove: check the parallel section in w3.org/TR/HTML5 and see if it says anything different (I think that's one area the specs have explicit divergence, alt text authoring advice)
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aaronpk what's a good recommendation for adactio then? moving the img outside the p-name and e-content?
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tantek checks the logs for more context
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gRegorLove thought tantek added that link I shared to /alt, heh
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tantek what is alt
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Loqi alt is a required attribute of the <img> element and should be provided in any use of images on indieweb pages from photo posts to featured and other images in articles https://indiewebcamp.com/alt
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tantek looks at Adactio's post
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aaronpk lol "stub with dfn, ref to whatwg living html spec for advice on good alt text" - tantek.com
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gRegorLove I think that entire section of the wg page makes sense, though. Maybe the excerpt makes it seem worse.
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gRegorLove What do screen readers do with title attribute?
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tantek gRegorLove: good question, depends on which screen reader and which version and in what context of markup etc. etc.
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tantek short answer: nothing consistent :P
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aaronpk for a while, I thought adactio was actually typing the caption twice, as a way to be cute or something
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aaronpk for some of the short ones i could see that being true
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aaronpk https://adactio.com/notes/10604
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Loqi [Jeremy Keith] Pork chop.
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tantek once again I wait for Loqi before clicking
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Loqi yo
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bear https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/embedded-content-0.html#images-of-pictures seems to say that the alt text could be the caption or title
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KevinMarks hm, I don't get ti twice: http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=https%3A%2F%2Fadactio.com%2Fnotes%2F10678&html=&pretty=on
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aaronpk KevinMarks: maybe that parser doesn't include alt text in the parsed result?
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aaronpk but then when something like this came through I was like wait a second... https://adactio.com/notes/10577
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Loqi [Jeremy Keith] Exploring the nooks and crannies of a Budapest romkocsma.
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KevinMarks "name": [ "Pork chop." ],
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tantek here's summary advice for the alt attribute: use text that makes sense when read out loud along with the context of any text before, and any text after.
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tantek automatic alt text is rarely useful, about the best you can do is to say what the resource is (a jpg) or if you know it is a photo, say that
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hs0ucy gRegorLove: I think it's a good thing to avoid TITLE attribute ... But it maybe useful in some cases.
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bear that summary reads to me what a sighted person would say -- alt text of a photo should be descriptive text of the photo that includes the object of the photo and it's context
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gRegorLove hs0ucy: Why? Do you mean specific to screen readers, or in general?
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aaronpk i suppose another question is whether the alt text should be included in the parsed mf2
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tantek I'll update /alt accordingly
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tantek aaronpk: thought there already was an mf2 parsing issue on that with discussion and resolution
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hs0ucy gRegorLove: When you can't provide a LABEL with an INPUT ... A TiTLE attribute could be use.
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aaronpk checks
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tantek (unless you have new information)
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KevinMarks we had a problem with empty alt text triggering the 'use the url'
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aaronpk there's this, but that's not the same http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#implied_name_when_alt.3D.22.22
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Loqi microformats2-parsing-issues
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hs0ucy gRegorLove: In general it's not very useful and in screen readers it could be noisy.
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gRegorLove I think keeping alt in parsed mf2 is good, encourages better use of alt.
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bear that implied name with alt issue may work for h-card but the adactio example above is a u-photo no? so what would e-content be for a u-photo with both alt text and body text?
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tantek.com edited /alt (+1494) "guidelines, summary guideline, see whatwg spec for more, exception caption title legend related" (view diff)
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tantek gRegorLove, aaronpk there you go ^^^
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aaronpk so from the perspective of a reader, I actually would rather the alt text did not appear in the p-name or e-content
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aaronpk my IRC-based reader converts posts to plaintext (similar to how Loqi expands URLs here)
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Loqi grins profusely
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tantek you can't avoid it in the e-content because that's just markup that contains the whole <img>
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aaronpk it shouldn't put the alt text *outside* the img in that case tho
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tantek so that desire is not reasonable (for the alt text to not appear in e-content)
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tantek by dfn alt text is not outsdie the image in the markup. I don't understand your concern.
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tantek s/outsdie/outside
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Loqi tantek meant to say: by dfn alt text is not outside the image in the markup. I don't understand your concern.
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aaronpk okay, no concern for e-content
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aaronpk by default it works like i expect
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aaronpk but for p- properties, it seems weird to take it out of the img tag
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tantek.com edited /alt (+14) "/* Guidelines */ explicit about alt and image" (view diff)
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tantek "my IRC-based reader converts posts to plaintext (similar to how Loqi expands URLs here)" <-- this is why: "Use alt text that makes sense when read out loud along with the context of any text before, and any text after the image. "
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KevinMarks if you copy adactio's posts in a browser and paste, you get the at text for the img too
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aaronpk but in an HTML based reader like woodwind, it would also be strange for the alt text to suddenly appear in the post title
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tantek your "converts posts to plaintext" is very similar to what screen readers do
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tantek hence the guideline above
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aaronpk woodwind's parser does not use the alt text right now
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aaronpk if it did, the alt text would show up next to the other text, which is not how it appears on adactio.com
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aaronpk if the alt text is included in the parsed result, then it becomes impossible to reconstruct an HTML representation of the post that is equivalent to the original
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tantek aaronpk, there's been very little demand (even some explicit meh) about "reconstruct an HTML representation"
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tantek looks up the issue
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aaronpk what!
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aaronpk no , that's how woodwind works
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aaronpk given a parsed mf2 entry, show it in HTML
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tantek LOL kylewm was even the one who -1'd it: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#default_generated_HTML
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Loqi microformats2-parsing-issues
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tantek so there you go
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KevinMarks the challenge is if oder is preserved or not in your objects/dicts
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KevinMarks s/oder/order/
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Loqi KevinMarks meant to say: the challenge is if order is preserved or not in your objects/dicts
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KevinMarks PHP preserves source order, Python/Go don't
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aaronpk i'm not talking about "default" or "canonical" html for an h-entry
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aaronpk i'm talking about what an HTML based reader has to do to show an entry
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aaronpk this is what adactio's post would look like in woodwind if the python parser included alt text in the result https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-05-19-13-01-37.png
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aaronpk or if he had written more descriptive alt text: https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-05-19-13-03-32.png
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aaronpk that is clearly distinctly different from what the post looks like on adactio's site, but the reader has no way to know that the first line of the p-name property came from alt text and that it should not show it on the page
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aaronpk what the reader *should* do is render the <img> tag with the same alt text that the img was authored with
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tantek aaronpk, readers can't help bad alt text
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aaronpk my point is it is also a problem with good alt text
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tantek except in showing it more "obviously" and thus providing visible feedback for the author to improve their alt text
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aaronpk check my second screenshot
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tantek which is how this stuff always works. authors inevitably get things wrong. visual feedback is how they end up fixing it.
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tantek meh, your second screenshot is using fake (strawman) alt text right? still not complying with the advice I already wrote up on the /alt page
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aaronpk i was trying to follow that advice...
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tantek no, it doesn't read well. which is specifically what the advice says to make sure of!
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tantek literally the very first thing
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aaronpk what alt text would you suggest for that post then?
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aaronpk my point is it literally doesn't matter what the alt text is, the point is that the reader is unable to reproduce the post in a way that accurately resembles the original post
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tantek Photo of four clams in a bed of ice.
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tantek which when combined with the caption actually reads quite well.
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tantek Photo of four clams in a bed of ice. Cape Cod clams.
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tantek alt text is not supposed to be *super* descriptive. simple descriptive is fine.
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tantek basically, don't over think / over do the alt text
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tantek if you really feel like writing a longer description, use ARIA described-by to link to a longer description elsewhere
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aaronpk fine, my point still stands though
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tantek not really
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tantek alt text written according to the guideline will work perfectly fine
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tantek in such "reader" situations, whether text-only or not
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aaronpk no, the post will look wrong in woodwind, because woodwind is also showing the photo
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aaronpk it's "alt" text, meaning it should be shown if the photo is not shown
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-05-19-13-21-11.png
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tantek it's not ideal, but I wouldn't call it "bad" or "wrong"
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aaronpk this is not a terrible representation of the post: https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-05-19-13-21-42.png
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aaronpk but with the photo, the alt text should not be shown
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aaronpk my point is that with this parsing rule, the reader doesn't even get the choice of whether to show the alt text with the photo
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aaronpk also the reader has no way of adding the alt text to the actual img tag *it* shows
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tantek hmm - that's a more interesting implied feature request
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KevinMarks that is trickier, yes
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aaronpk my proposal would be to not include alt text in p-* values, and if there is alt text on a u-* image, include that in the property as well, maybe like "photo":{"url":"http://example.com/photo.jpg","alt":"an example photo"}
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tantek if you want a structured photo with attributes like that, you'd have work on research/brainstorming for a separate photo object
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tantek no no no that kind of one-off structure is basically an anathema for any kind of generic parsing / understanding
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tantek if you want to add such structure to a property, you have to make it an object itself *at the markup level*, e.g. an h-photo
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gRegorLove catches up
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aaronpk sure, i don't really care what it looks like
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tantek you should, because one-offs like that add edge cases to code and thus bugs over the long term
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Loqi I agree
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aaronpk by "i don't care" i mean i am not advocating for any particular json structure
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tantek right the key is to not advocate for any json structure at all, and fix it higher up
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tantek this is also a weird case of alt being included in a property value, only because of the implied p-name
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tantek so I'm a bit leary reasoning by edge-case here
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aaronpk it's an explicit p-name
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gRegorLove Woodwind is rendering the image with the original alt, so I don't think it's reconstructing from mf2
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aaronpk he has "p-name e-content" on the container
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aaronpk woodwind must be showing the e-content then
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gRegorLove Yes, sanitized I believe.
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gRegorLove Which is why adactio's srcset variants don't show up, just the fallback, which is the smallest version (tangent)
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tantek I think a better use-case to check here would be photo comments
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aaronpk this is an actual problem with adactio's posts for me right now
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aaronpk tantek's too actually, since the alt text is always "a jpg"
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tantek the best I could really update that too any time soon would be (a photo)
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tantek I'm unlikely to explicitly write alt text for photo posts, and I would assert that most people would also be unlikely to do so
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aaronpk i agree
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tantek (if anyone has data showing otherwise, e.g. with Twitter photo posts that supposedly have alt text - still looking for a real world example)
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tantek aaronpk - fair to assert there are issues right now with use of alt
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tantek start capturing them: /alt#Issues with the citations / screenshots you provided
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tantek (both the example you gave of adactio / Woodwind, and the "a jpg" example you gave from my photo)
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tantek oh man - aaronpk you have to see https://events.google.com/io2016/ now
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gRegorLove I've written alt for some of the photos in my posts. Recently I've been using empty alts more.
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tantek connecting a heart sensor via bluetooth to a web app
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tantek so you can create heartrate posts ;)
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aaronpk what! that's not what i see there!
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aaronpk showing date picker widgets
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tantek click on the 4th talk, cwilso and ...
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aaronpk ooh
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tantek "web bluetooth"
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aaronpk also hey props to google for selfdogfooding their own youtube live event streaming stuff
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tantek dogfooding
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tantek google is not a self
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tantek now if the developers of youtube live event streaming would use it to live stream themselves on their own website, then we might be talking selfdogfood
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aaronpk at least they're sharing URLs on events.google.com instead of youtube.com
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tantek maybe because youtube URLs are badly designed?
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tantek and note that I had to give you text instructions for a particular talk
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aaronpk was that scott jenson's stuff he was talking about?
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tantek yes
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aaronpk physical web buttons. can't find a /2014/SF session but i remember he was showing it there
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tantek right, something about URLs for objects or something
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tantek "traditionally deep links tend to get lost during install"
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tantek shown on an app https://events.google.com/io2016/ that itself lacks deep links :P
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aaronpk lol
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tantek aaronpk: note that there was no link to the talk in particular
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gRegorLove "Mobile Web: State of the Union" starting in about 12 minutes https://events.google.com/io2016/schedule?sid=947f7532-77f8-e511-a517-00155d5066d7#day2/947f7532-77f8-e511-a517-00155d5066d7
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aaronpk snarfed found hash URLs for the sessions somehow
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gRegorLove Click "Schedule" at the top right
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tantek hashURLs--
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Loqi hashURLs has -1 karma
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rossdavis Has it started yet? I was supposed to get a notification, but nothing yet.
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rossdavis nevermind, got it
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tantek gRegorLove: are you watching "Mobile Web: State of the Union" ?
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gRegorLove Yep
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tantek everything he is saying applies to what we should consider for /2016/newskin and more
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tantek shaners ^^^
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tantek * speed is the killer feature
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tantek wow * dropping scrolling from 60fps to 30pfs collapses user engagement
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:adactio-posts-in-irc-reader.png]]""
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tantek * 40% of people abandon a website that takes more than 3 seconds to load
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tantek ^^^ so we should measure our indieweb site home page loads and make sure they are <3 s
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tantek s/<3/less than 3
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Loqi tantek meant to say: ^^^ so we should measure our indieweb site home page loads and make sure they are less than 3 s
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tantek * progressive web apps enable engaging experiences via service workers
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:tantek-posts-in-irc-reader.png]]""
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tantek * AMP files load in an average of 400ms
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tantek Challenge accepted.
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aaronparecki.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:adactio-post-with-alt-text-in-woodwind.png]]""
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aaronparecki.com edited /alt (+1018) (view diff)
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tantek yikes the WaPo headlines
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gRegorLove 80ms, dang
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gRegorLove What is service worker?
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Loqi service worker is a javascript script that runs in the background, independent of tabs and can be used for e.g https://indiewebcamp.com/service_worker
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tantek.com edited /2016/Sessions (+539) "add Performance session idea based on Google I/O "Mobile Web: State of the Union" info" (view diff)
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tantek * "washingtonpost.com/pwa (on your phones)"
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tantek now next mini-talk
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tantek "Convert"
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tantek * typing on mobile is hard
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tantek * thus asking users to sign-in on mobile is hard
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tantek * if they fail once 92% give up if they are unable to sign in
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tantek (wow)
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aaronpk perks up at mention of "sign-in"
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tantek aaronpk, how good is the IndieAuth experience on mobile?
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aaronpk pretty bad if you're not logged in to one of the oauth providers already
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tantek * Credential Management API - "works with 'federated sign-in'"
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aaronpk hm.. i'm suspicious of the auto re-sign-in thing
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aaronpk how do i change accounts?
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tantek (I don't understand what just happened with Kayak)
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aaronpk the browser saved the user's credentials
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tantek * 66% of mobile commerce comes from the web
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aaronpk appears to be a formalization of the save password feature browsers already have
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aaronpk in an api form
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tantek * conversions on the mobile, happen ~33% of the conversion rate on the desktop web
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tantek (really dislikes the "fewer" and "less" with % measurements)
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tantek * 25% more conversions with auto-fill
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tantek (this all has applicability for IndieAuth sign-in processes)
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tantek oh boy
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tantek * Web Payments API - "one tap checkout for the web"
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Loqi [indieweb] "Jay, I don't think the author David spends much time in the fora here, and I know he's been diligently developing several other plugins in" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/jay-i-dont-think-the-author-david-spends-much-time
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tantek (it's seriously not that mature)
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tantek (wtf)
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gRegorLove "One-tap payments for the first time ever"? Amazon might disagree
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tantek hah - that looks like two taps to me
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aaronpk this is going to be interesting for the web payments API
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tantek gRegorLove: one tap payment vs. one-click *buy*
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aaronpk is google just barging ahead with it?
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gRegorLove Sure, but their examples are also purchasing stuff via Shopify
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tantek so in the web payments example, it's two taps to buy. one tap to indicate intent to buy, and then one more tap to pay.
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tantek.com edited /2016/Sessions (+137) "subheads for sessions, 3 points for perf" (view diff)
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tantek alright, session proposal added for IndieWeb Summit: https://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Sessions#Performance
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tantek relating to previous IO mobile perf etc. session
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tantek +1s / comments welcome
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tantek.com edited /2016/Sessions (+54) "/* Performance */ Interested?" (view diff)
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tantek hmm - mobile notifications for airline checkin
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tantek * m.airberlin.com
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tantek (note the "Add to home screen" pop-up)
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tantek (that the speaker is ignoring)
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tantek (oh until now :) )
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tantek * on airports, the internet is very bad or not working. you're not sure you can have access
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tantek (exactly)
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tantek * so I go airplane mode to say I'm offline
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Loqi [indieweb] "chrisaldrich on "[Plugin: Bridgy Publish] Post to multiple custom post types"" by chrisaldrich https://wordpress.org/support/topic/post-to-multiple-custom-post-types#post-8424188
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tantek * now I have the possibilty to go back from the home screen icon
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tantek * you see I have all the content there
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tantek * in offline mode
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tantek * most importantly I have access to my boarding pass
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tantek * so we don't have to do screenshots of my boarding pass to make sure we have it
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aaronpk very nice
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aaronpk even the delta native ios app doesn't always let me retrieve my boarding pass when i'm offline
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tantek (this is an impressive demo I relate to, but also recognize it's totally a 0.01% use-case :p )
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tantek (perhaps an example of when scratching your own itch ends up solving a problem for very few people)
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KartikPrabhu https://twitter.com/shinypb/status/733302396995010561
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@shinypb When developers turn their problems into users' problems: AMP, following in XHTML's proud footsteps. [photo] (twitter.com/_/status/733302396995010561)
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KartikPrabhu see [photo]
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tantek wat
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aaronpk oops
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tantek that needs to go on /AMP#Criticism
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gRegorLove It's on there
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KartikPrabhu oh! me too late to the party
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gRegorLove Timely though! We're watching a Google I/O session on mobile web
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tantek.com edited /Accelerated_Mobile_Pages (+337) "/* XML like fragility */ Additional citations:" (view diff)
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KevinMarks does AMP do that when you're not in debug mode?
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tantek we really need to update https://indiewebcamp.com/social_web_map
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tantek artists welcome!
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aaronparecki.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "Redirected page to [[events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club]]" (view diff)
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tantek yes! "if your page has to load a bunch of javascript to load the data from your website, you've lost performance"
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tantek jakearchibald++
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Loqi jakearchibald has 1 karma
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2016-06-01-homebrew-website-club (-62) "pdx" (view diff)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Homebrew Website Club PDX" http://calagator.org/events/1250470304
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aaronpk superfeedr++
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Loqi superfeedr has 4 karma
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@singpolyma I need to build a standalone OpenID1/2/connect + SAML + IndieAuth provider now (https://singpolyma.net/?post_type=actionstream&p=566389) (twitter.com/_/status/733420548785504257)
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tantek heh
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tantek now watching Principles of mobile app design: Delight users and drive conversions
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tantek aaronpk: hey - "Make it easy to manually change location!"
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tantek * Google Places API allows you to discover
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tantek oh wait this is not mobile web :/
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tantek oh wait
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tantek * moving people from the app to the web
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tantek.com edited /2012/UK (+48) "/* Photos */ update photo links from statigram to IG, and src from AWS to cdninstagram" (view diff)
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tantek hmm - "Polymer App Toolbox" ("not a stack!")
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tantek * you don't need a massive mega platform
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tantek www.polymer-project.org
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tantek * Polymer approach is *different* than a typical JS framerwork because it *uses the platform* rather than creating abstractions
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tantek * Why rely on the platform? *Performance on mobile*
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tantek * How? *New platform primitives & patterns.*
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tantek * The result is a *best-in-class Progressive Web App* built out of interoperable web components.
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tantek ^^^ This overall outline can be used for the "IndieWeb approach"
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tantek and right after that they announced the Polymer Summit 2016
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tantek so its really parallel
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tantek now tuning to "Instant Loading: Building offline-first Progressive Web Apps"
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tantek lol - spam phone calls
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KevinMarks jake is good
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tantek so good
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tantek emojoy - like hangouts but you can only use emoji - jakearchibald-gcm.appspot.com
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aaronpk oh gosh
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tantek * "you should think of the network as a piece of progressive enhancement, an enhancement that might not be there"
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tantek good talk by Jake Archibald
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bear I got a good chuckle from "lie-fi"
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tantek pretty awesome that he's using a *chat* / IM "app" as the example
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tantek of working offline, lie-fi etc.
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tantek especially since the Google "Hangouts" app (iOS) is *so* slow to launch, view chats, etc. and all network-bound, not progressive
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KevinMarks OK, now I want this for noterlive
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tantek this is pretty amazing
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tantek background sync!
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tantek all of this is stuff we can use on our own sites
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tantek * "Caching complete! Future visits will work offline."
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snarfed1 all the stuff we need for https://snarfed.org/posting-to-the-indieweb-from-your-phone !
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] Posting to the indieweb from your phone
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tantek ok so far that's the best talk of I/O
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KevinMarks service worker is a terrible name for this
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tantek that ship has definitely sailed
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tantek.com edited /2016/ (-4) "handle 2016/ the same as 2016" (view diff)
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KevinMarks I'm sure Apple will come up with a name for it when Safari ships it next year
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tantek.com edited /2016/Sessions (+480) "/* Session Ideas */ add HTTPS and Offline as ideas" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2016/Sessions (+123) "/* Offline */ cite snarfed's post" (view diff)