#indiewebcamp 2016-05-08

2016-05-08 UTC
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gRegorLove
voxpelli: Is it ok to include the HTML of one of your posts in the php-mf2 language tests?
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gRegorLove
URL to original included, of course
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gRegorLove
!tell voxpelli Is it ok to include the HTML of one of your posts in the php-mf2 language tests? URL to original included, of course
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com
edited /2016/Dusseldorf/bookmarking (+103) "a session photo"
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gRegorLove
I've got basic html-lang parsing working in php-mf2. Working on the fallback to meta Content-Language now.
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tantek.com
edited /2016/Dusseldorf/comments (+103) "a session photo"
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tantek.com
edited /2016/Dusseldorf/homepage (+1472) "archive from Etherpad, with some styling help"
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gRegorLove
Fallback to meta Content-Language is working now.
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gRegorLove
Parsing works as expected on voxpelli's sv article.
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gRegorLove
Does not work on Stephanie's here http://climbtothestars.org/archives/2013/09/17/basic-bilingual-1-0-plugin-for-wordpress-blog-in-more-than-one-language/ because lang=fr is specified on a div within .entry-content, not on the same element.
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Loqi
[Stephanie Booth] Basic Bilingual 1.0 Plugin for WordPress: Blog in More Than One Language! [en]
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GWG
Evening, gRegorLove
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gRegorLove
Howdy, GWG
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GWG
Working on languages, I see?
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gRegorLove
Yep, got it working in php-mf2 for the most part.
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tantek
gRegorLove: makes sense for language to be per property
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tantek
but yes, harder to deal with "specified on a div within .entry-content"
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tantek
and with that
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tantek
good night
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Loqi
buenas noches
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gRegorLove
Loqi, I think you meant guten nacht
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Loqi
yeah!
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GWG
I'm trying to decide if adopting php-comment is a good idea.
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GWG
I think it is, but I haven't heard the opposing viewpoint.
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gRegorLove
codereuse++
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Loqi
codereuse has 1 karma
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GWG
gRegorLove: Is that a for using php-comment over the existing code WordPress users are using?
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tantek.com
created /2016/Dusseldorf/syndication (+2907) "archive from Etherpad, with some minor corrections"
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GWG
tantek: Was today at Dusseldorf fun and intellectually stimulating?
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tantek.com
edited /2016/Dusseldorf/travel (+1145) "archive from Etherpad, with some styling help"
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tantek
very!
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GWG
I feel I do better with stimulation in person
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GWG
The last two, I had trouble with remote participation
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tantek.com
created /2016/Dusseldorf/beatdown (+1226) "archive from IRC, background"
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[kevinmarks]
I think Stephanie does it that way because the summary is often in another language
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@LucaSalvini
If you’re up at 6am after less than 4 hrs sleep either you’re really excited for the day or you’re getting old fast. #IndieWebCamp #day2
(twitter.com/_/status/729165102008643585)
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hongpong
Anyone want to review? i am trying to convert the microformats style sitewide hCard - i found a Drupal8 port - now it is almost ready but the block is not working. posted here https://www.drupal.org/node/2720199 the module code is here
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hongpong
https://github.com/HongPong/microformats/tree/hcard_sitewide I adapted from this https://www.drupal.org/node/2624866 but there must be a mistake in the block config code.
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hongpong
Also having some luck tonight with the indieweb libraries, i committed a standalone example code snippet , onto drupal.org/project/microformats
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hongpong
also i put a PR for aaronpk on the indieweb php-mentions library to improve the debug messages and better PHPdoc on functions .. i want to have these libraries wrapped with drupal functions that can optionally go into the Watchdog log
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@jjnegi
RT @HongPong Building blocks of #indieweb for #Drupal8 starting here: https://www.drupal.org/project/microformats just baby steps yet, but will streamline for all Drupals :O
(twitter.com/_/status/729175784938606592)
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@jjnegi
RT @HongPong by including #indieweb libraries in #Drupal8 (going to add wrappers with logging) then small modules can implement webmention & others
(twitter.com/_/status/729175812809822210)
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@m_ott
@helloanselm Auch STR 🚀 DUS waren nur 2:45 h. Kommst Du noch zum #IndieWebCamp?
(twitter.com/_/status/729201145856593925)
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sknebel
!tell Zegnat: just for protocol (CC0 requirement), is it okay if I copy some of your IRC notes to the matching session pages in the wiki?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat
!tell sknebel Consider all my IRC notes to be CC0, copy away. I will probably hold of ’til tomorrow on updating the wiki with my notes, so anything you can already do is much appreciated.
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Loqi
Zegnat: sknebel left you a message 29 minutes ago: just for protocol (CC0 requirement), is it okay if I copy some of your IRC notes to the matching session pages in the wiki? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-07/line/1462690100444
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sknebel
Zegnat++
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Loqi
Zegnat has 16 karma
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Zegnat
is enjoying the calm outside the sipgate offices
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sknebel
is still confused by the fact that the high-speed train he is taking today is faster, more comfortable, has wifi... and is *cheaper* than the Regio he took yesterday
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Zegnat
Hahahaha
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Loqi
awesome
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Zegnat
Thalys?
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sknebel
annoying as hell to book
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sknebel
but nice
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adactio.com
edited /2016/Düsseldorf (+0) "/* Schedule */"
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adactio.com
edited /2016/Düsseldorf (+0) "/* Schedule */"
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webgefrickel
Good morning!
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sknebel
morning!
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Zegnat
Huh. my IRC bouncer died for a few minutes. Had to read on the online logs.
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Zegnat
The Thalys wasn’t worth the effort for me, I will just take the ICE back tomorrow
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sknebel
yeah, i'd generally do that as well, but here it allows me to leave 50 min later and still be at sipgate 10.05 or so,
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Zegnat
Oh, nice. I don’t think the Thalys was an option for me anyway. I have to be at work in Ede (the Netherlands) again tomorrow morning at 9 ;)
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@fredericmarx
#food Pastrami sandwiches yesterday, salmon guac bagels today. @sipgate_kitchen killing it again this #indiewebcamp.
(twitter.com/_/status/729219419335970816)
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@wltrd
Als @sipgate Kunde freue ich mich über die Unterstützung vom #indiewebcamp Düsseldorf. Tolles Essen & Location! https://twitter.com/wltrd/status/729220824876630016/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/729220824876630016)
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@sipgateDE
RT @wltrd Als @sipgate Kunde freue ich mich über die Unterstützung vom #indiewebcamp Düsseldorf. Tolles Essen & Location! https://twitter.com/wltrd/status/729220824876630016/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/729223936563683328)
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@eaybot
@eay Test einer Webmentions auf die Homepage: http://eay.cc/
(twitter.com/_/status/729235018493612032)
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voxpelli
!tell gRegorLove You can absolutely include one of my posts in the tests! Eg. http://voxpelli.com/2015/09/oberoende-sociala-webben-2015/ would fit well (it's an indieweb post)
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Loqi
voxpelli: gRegorLove left you a message 8 hours, 34 minutes ago: Is it ok to include the HTML of one of your posts in the php-mf2 language tests? URL to original included, of course http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-07/line/1462667562594
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com
edited /deleted (+236) "/* Handling */ send a webmention to all responses"
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tantek.com
edited /deleted (+60) "tombstone, updated default text, dt-deleted"
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tantek
What is updated?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "updated" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10L0
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tantek
An updated is a post that has been edited by the author.
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loqi.me
created /updated (+80) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-08/line/1462701952551 and dfn added by tantek"
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tantek.com
edited /deleted (+14) "/* See Also */ updated"
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@IndieWebCampDE
Eindrücke vom #IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf — starke Mannschaft, starke Bilder! Dank an @iwontsignuphere https://www.flickr.com/short_urls.gne?photoset=aHskzpxJXf
(twitter.com/_/status/729252200891977728)
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@jkphl
Awesome pictures of 1.5 days serious @indiewebcamp'ing. So excited to see all the results later today! #btconf https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampDE/status/729252200891977728
(twitter.com/_/status/729252786685227009)
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tantek.com
edited /updated (+2218) "draft based on [[deleted]]"
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tantek
what is updated?
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Loqi
An updated is a post that has been edited by the author https://indiewebcamp.com/updated
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Emma
i love the gif!!!
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sknebel
just passed what looks like all webmention.rocks discovery tests, thanks to ronkyuu!
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sknebel
bear++
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Loqi
bear has 131 karma
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bear
cool!
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bear
I've just finished updating kaku project for flask handling of micropub and webmentions
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bear.im
edited /updated (+205) "add to examples"
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@nebu
...but, this is madness!? This. is. @sipgate ! Froyo self service at #indiewebcamp DUS. Keeping brains from melting. https://twitter.com/nebu/status/729268988300148736/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/729268988300148736)
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@sipgate_kitchen
RT @fredericmarx #food Pastrami sandwiches yesterday, salmon guac bagels today. @sipgate_kitchen killing it again this #indiewebcamp.
(twitter.com/_/status/729273725409988612)
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voxpelli
tantek: regarding your "deleted" update – sending webmention to the responses of ones post sounds weird and feels like something that can have unintended consequences for those who don't support deletes
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@sipgateDE
RT @fredericmarx #food Pastrami sandwiches yesterday, salmon guac bagels today. @sipgate_kitchen killing it again this #indiewebcamp.
(twitter.com/_/status/729273885208752128)
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voxpelli
imho Webmention are only to be sent upstream to posts directly mentioned
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voxpelli
it would of course be good if responses could easily be notified somehow, but that's not necessarily somehting that webmention is for
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kodfabrik.se
edited /deleted (+452) "/* Handling */ Adding feedback inline due to lack of other place to discuss this new feature addition. Feature should perhaps be moved to brainstorm section?"
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voxpelli
tantek: ^ added feedback
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aaronpk
yeah sending webmentions to people who have sent you webmentions has not been explored much yet
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voxpelli
if A ping B because A has mentioned B and then B updates his post and pings A because of that, then B will have included the mention from A in his page so A will think that B has mentioned A and then include the comment from B
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voxpelli
if A then supports Salmentions A will ping B to let B know that someone has mentioned A :P
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voxpelli
and A will anyhow present a mention from A that's originates from the comment presentation within B
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voxpelli
which is just wrong
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aaronpk
if I receive a webmention from a post that I link to, I can tell that and not show it as a comment
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aaronpk
but... if I don't add special handling for that, the "fallback" or "default" behavior would be that I would show it as a comment
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voxpelli
ugh, then we get into lots of special cases :/
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voxpelli
+ nothing says that the post that you mention can't also mention you back
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voxpelli
that can be a very valid case
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aaronpk
right but i could tell the difference between that based on where the link to my post is
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voxpelli
with all those extra checks, question is if another mechanism than webmention might not be more suited for such notifications then
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voxpelli
(I think Facebook handles mentions of web pages by just limiting the time it caches the representation of one, that could be acceptable in the case of reply-contexts, not as much need for them to be realtime)
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voxpelli
(one could possibly even argue that a reply-context maybe shouldn't update as it should represent the state of the reply at the time one replied to it)
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voxpelli
will stop ranting now and do some coding instead :P
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tantek
voxpelli: it's not for salmentions, but rather for reply-context updates: https://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#CRUD
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tantek
this has been documented there for a while: "For this to work, an original post that accepts and displays comments should send webmentions to all the comments permalinks when the original post is updated or deleted. "
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voxpelli
tantek: does anyone actually do it?
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voxpelli
feels very wrong to me
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emmahodge.org
edited /IRC_People (+121) "/* Nicknames */"
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voxpelli
I would have to do lots of special work in my Webmention endpoint to ensure that such downstream Webmentions doesn't get shown as comments
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sknebel
hi EmmaH
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EmmaH
hello!
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sknebel
python people: If I want to modify html, do I want to use Beautiful Soup or html5lib directly? (ping bear kylewm)
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Zegnat
Just making sure the /IRC People change stuck for Emma :)
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aaronpk
it takes a few minutes before it's updated
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Zegnat
It worked basically instantly, aaronpk. The web portal just constantly displayed a “connecting to IRC” for EmmaH, which covered the bottom ~2 lines of text
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Zegnat
Not sure what was going on there, as her messages did arrive to IRC
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tantek
voxpelli: why "lots" of special work? replies already know what they are in-reply-to
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voxpelli
tantek: I know very little of the posts people mention
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aaronpk
ah cool Zegnat. must have got lucky with the cron job timing
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kodfabrik.se
edited /reply-context (+1434) "/* CRUD */ Add feedback about downstream webmentioning"
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KevinMarks
depends what you're doing, sknebel
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KevinMarks
Beautiful Soup is good at grabbing chunks out
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KevinMarks
html5lib if you're transforming the whole document
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sknebel
KevinMarks: I want to add classes, wrapping divs and stuff to tags in my posts. (e.g. I just put <img src="attachment.jpg"> in the file and transform it to <div class="image_container"><img class="u-photo u-featured" src=...
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KevinMarks
you cna do ti with either, it depends which syntax you prefer
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KevinMarks
html5lib is more like a tree walking model
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KevinMarks
BS is more like dom selection
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sknebel
k, thank you, then I'll look at the docs a bit to decide which looks nicer to me
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tantek
voxpelli - anyone can curl a webmention endpoint with source and target URLs
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voxpelli
tantek: yeah?
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tantek
if your reply posts can't handle a webmention of a source of their in-reply-to to the target of the reply, then anyone can cause that to happen
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tantek
thus implementers have no choice but to code for this
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tantek
is tempted to run some automation to do this
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voxpelli
tantek: as I said to aaronpk before, just because I mention you that doesn't mean that you can't mention me
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tantek
reply posts MUST in their webmention handler check to see if the "source" is their "in-reply-to" and then either ignore it, or use it as a reply-context update hook
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tantek
voxpelli: yes it does
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tantek
in fact a third party can do it
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tantek
since anyone can do a curl of your webmention endpoint
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tantek
with that source and target
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tantek
you must be able to handle it
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tantek
because you cannot stop it
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@btconf
RT @fredericmarx #food Pastrami sandwiches yesterday, salmon guac bagels today. @sipgate_kitchen killing it again this #indiewebcamp.
(twitter.com/_/status/729287745324077056)
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tantek
your implementation has no choice but to be defensive
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voxpelli
tantek: one could handle it through moderation tools as well
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tantek
no because you cannot tell the difference
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tantek
between someone doing that randomly
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tantek
and someone using "Telegram" to send their webmentions for them
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tantek
in fact, *I* could use Telegram to send webmentions on behalf of someone else
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tantek
moderation tools are irrelevant in this situation
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aaronpk
the solution is to check *where* the link to your site appears in the source URL
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aaronpk
if the link appears in the content, then it's a normal mention/comment
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KevinMarks
or indiewebify.me or mention.tech
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aaronpk
if the link appears in the "like-of" property then the source liked your post
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tantek
what "the link"? the "source" ?
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aaronpk
target
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aaronpk
(your url)
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tantek
the solution is to check to see if you're already linking to the claimed source
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tantek
from your target
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aaronpk
if the link appears in a "repost" or "comment" property then that's not a normal comment and you don't need to display it as such
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voxpelli
I think it's wrong to check the "like-of" param – rather chekc if the link back to ones post is in the actual h-entry rather than in a comment to that h-entry
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aaronpk
voxpelli: the "like-of" example is totally unrelated, but you are probably handling that anyway
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voxpelli
but okay, that may be something that one should ideally do but that so far haven't proved to be an issue for those that don't, but actively promoting downstream mentions will make it a more immediate issue
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aaronpk
it could also be used as a mechanism to say "hey your comment appears on my site now"
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voxpelli
still not convinced that downstream webmentions is the best tool to achieve the aim of keeping reply-contexts up to date
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aaronpk
e.g. if you have a manual moderation queue
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aaronpk
or if you verify asynchronously
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tantek
voxpelli, the larger point is that any reasoning that starts with "it's bad to send webmentions" is flawed, because ANYONE can be sending that webmention behalf of any source / target
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tantek
voxpelli: in fact, I am suggesting that webmention.rocks do this AUTOMATICALLY just to see if someone's webmention handler mishandles this
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tantek
every webmention receiver has no choice but to handle this
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voxpelli
tantek: just because anyone can use a tool doesn't mean that tool is the appropriate one for every problem, so not buying your argument there?
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tantek
and we should be explicit about it
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voxpelli
I'm mainly questioning whether a mechanism built for _upstream_ notifications is suitable for _downstream_ notifications
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tantek
voxpelli: I am saying the reasoning "it is too complex" is not true and irrelevant, because you have to code defensively for it anyway
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tantek
no, webmention was built for any peer to peer mention / link
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tantek
that's from the definition
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tantek
there was no "upstream" or "downstream" from the beginning
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voxpelli
tantek: and I have accepted that the complexity argument isn't fully valid: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-08/line/1462710978627
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Loqi
[voxpelli] but okay, that may be something that one should ideally do but that so far haven't proved to be an issue for those that don't, but actively promoting downstream mentions will make it a more immediate issue...
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tantek
the point is since receivers MUST handle this anyway, then it is ok for them to be given the *option* of doing something more than just ignoring
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tantek
it already is an immediate issue
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voxpelli
but someone should maybe make a chart of every place one is supposed to ping when a post is updated because it's getting to a point where that will be a massive amount of pings
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tantek
it's not even a spam problem
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tantek
just everything you link to
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tantek
why is that a chart?
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voxpelli
tantek: "why is that a chart?" – not sure what you mean? a flow chart?
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tantek
you said "maybe make a chart"
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tantek
not sure what you mean
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[kevinmarks]
a list maybe
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Loqi
Indie Pleasures
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voxpelli
I'm thinking that eg. one of [kevinmarks] more popular posts will likely have to send +20 pings whenever edited if doing all of regular webmentions, Salmentions and downstream webmentions
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aaronpk
the simplest rule for sending webmentions is send webmentions for all links that appear on your page
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tantek.com
edited /reply-context (+715) "/* Feedback */ tl;dr endpoints must handle any webmention; they must detect/defend against anything "buggy" (like create fake comments)"
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aaronpk
if you follow that rule literally, then you automatically send webmentions for all the comments that appear on your page
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@btconf
This – amongst other things – is what you miss at the #IndieWebCamp at @sipgate right now! https://twitter.com/fredericmarx/status/729269561133019136
(twitter.com/_/status/729291282472914944)
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voxpelli
aaronpk: that doesn't really scale :/
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[kevinmarks]
and any you deleted recently
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aaronpk
[kevinmarks]: that's not the *simplest* rule ;-)
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aaronpk
"scale" seems like a challenge that can be addressed
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[kevinmarks]
as I wrote it I felt the need for diagrams
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voxpelli
aaronpk: or one could look at how other people have solved and try to mimic their solutions? :)
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[kevinmarks]
but I distracted myself with Joy Division themed sparklines
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tantek.com
edited /reply-context (+8) "/* CRUD */ linky linky"
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voxpelli
aaronpk: if we should follow the rule literally, then any link on a page should be pinged whenever that page has been updated, which means every response one get should result in a ping to all links and thus all other responses one have gotten...
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tantek
when I start displaying webmentions I'm going to send webmentions right back as notifications to the commenters that their comments were displayed :P
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tantek
and if those commenters are buggy and display my original post as a comment on their post that will expose the bug in their implementation(s) visibly hopefully motivating them to fix it ASAP to not do that!
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tantek
s/on their post/on their reply
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: and if those commenters are buggy and display my original post as a comment on their reply that will expose the bug in their implementation(s) visibly hopefully motivating them to fix it ASAP to not do that!
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tantek
re: "every response one get should result in a ping to all links and thus all other responses one have gotten" <--- yes that is basically Salmention!
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tantek
so that people's sites can give them notifications like "Aaron, Barnaby, and 2 others also commented on a photo."
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tantek
^^^ actual text from a Facebook notification with names changed
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tantek
what happens when people comment after you comment
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KevinMarks
and if they ping you back likewise that could go on forever
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tantek
KevinMarks nonsense. changes do not go on forever automatically.
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voxpelli
aaronpk: perhaps http://webmention.net/draft/#webmention-verification should mention something about the need to handle links that may be from embedded mentions or something, to avoid the case pointed out by tantek here
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] Webmention
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KevinMarks
I mean if you both have the 'show the salmention webmention as a new comment' bug
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tantek
KevinMarks lol
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tantek
that only causes more than one change if you fail to handle webmention updates
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voxpelli
KevinMarks: I'm very much looking forward to finding IndieWeb sites DoS:ing themselves with circular Salmention pings :)
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voxpelli
should maybe follow tantek's lead and build a tool that sends circular Salmentions to other sites
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tantek
if you post a new comment for every webmention sent from *one* reply, then you are failing to handle webmention updates
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KevinMarks
voxpelli handles updates, I demoed that on wednesday
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tantek
otherwise the second time you get a webmention from the same source, you'll go to update it, see that nothing has changed, and stop
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KevinMarks
in real time even
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voxpelli
tantek: about the "see that nothing has changed" part – that's easier said than done :P
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tantek
nah, you have to build that for your own site anyway to detect updates yourself to see if you should *send* an update webmention!
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tantek
so once you have done that, you have code to detect if a post has been updated
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voxpelli
if someone adds in a CSRF-token or something somewhere, then a page may have changed every time you fetch it
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tantek
which you can apply to others' posts in addition to your own
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tantek
voxpelli: not "page source changed" but rather, just the parsed h-entry
#
tantek
"page source changed" is a straw man
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voxpelli
really? people do a diff to check whether to send an update webmention? I would assume people just did a ping whenever a post was saved :P
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tantek
voxpelli, if your editing is decoupled from your backend (e.g. separate micropub client vs your micropub server) then yes
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voxpelli
tantek: one could, by mistake or evil intent, create a parsed h-entry that creates an infinite update loop as well :/ I haven't decided on how pessimistic my change detection should be – one of the major remaining parts of my Salmention implementation
#
tantek
voxpelli: I don't really understand your upstream vs downstream distinction btw
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tantek
because AFAIK both are done "normally"
#
tantek
an original post sends *downstream* webmentions to e.g. every link mentioned in the content body, person-tags etc.
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tantek
a *reply* post sends *upstream* webmention to the original post it is in reply to
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tantek
so a *reply* post that itself has links inside its content sends BOTH *upstream* webmention(s) to the links it is in reply to (e.g. multi-reply) AND sends downstream webmentions to the links in its content
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tantek
so this statement makes no sense: "webmentions are only sent upstream – never downstream. "
#
tantek
or as I said, " I don't really understand your upstream vs downstream distinction "
#
tantek
I'm going to document that as confusion over upstream vs downstream
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voxpelli
tantek: how are "mentions" downstream but "replies" upstream? Everything mentioned by the post itself is sent upstream, no? doesn't matter if it has a "reply-to" think or not?
#
tantek
because threads have a notion of order and thus up/down
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voxpelli
"things a post mentions" -> upstream, "things mentioning a post" -> downstream. That's at least how I've been looking at things
#
tantek
and an original post is at the top, and thus everything it mentions is "downstream"
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tantek
responses are the only things that send webmentions "upstream" because they are a response to something that came before
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voxpelli
feels wrong to say that it's downstream, I can buy that it maybe isn't upstream, but saying that it's downstream feels wrong to me – those mentions are certainly different from mentions received by the post
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voxpelli
and in the context of webmention itself it can't really make the distinction between a reply and a link/mention – either a page mentions another page or a page gets mentioned by another page
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tantek
right! and that "can't really make the distinction" is the reason why attempting to distinguish up/downstream is futile
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voxpelli
I disagree and still find it a valuable distinction to have between what a page itself mentions and what other pages mentions itself – especially as the latter isn't even necessary to publish on the site
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voxpelli
But I can see that you won't change your standpoint on that so lets leave it
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voxpelli
On the topic of infinite updates, here's an example that will likely cause an infinite loop: https://gist.github.com/voxpelli/0e7378797e116568b9e926bd95c56415
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tantek.com
edited /deleted (+1282) "document Upstream Downstream Confusion"
(view diff)
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tantek
voxpelli: so in a real world consideration, if someone merely *updates* an earlier comment, FB does not provide notifications to later comments (whether it should or not is a different question)
#
tantek
and vice versa
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tantek
if someone *updates* a later comment, FB does not provide notifications to earlier comments.
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tantek
FB only provides notifications when new comments show up *after* an earlier comment.
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tantek
s/comment/response
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: FB only provides notifications when new responses show up *after* an earlier response.
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tantek
where a response can be a comment, a like, or even a person-tag
#
tantek
FB also does not send notifications for deletions
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tantek
I'm assuming that's a deliberate design choice
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kodfabrik.se
edited /deleted (+635) "/* Upstream Downstream Confusion */"
(view diff)
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tantek
voxpelli: I am currently writing code to detect when my own entries change (either updates or deletes) to determine when to send webmentions to everything they link(ed) to before/after
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tantek.com
edited /deleted (+275) "/* Upstream Downstream Confusion */ see no distinction. pages to link to pages, any link can be webmentioned"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
voxpelli: I don't think it's useful to say whether or not you *should* send webmentions to things that linked to you
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aaronpk
the point is *anyone* can send a webmention from one of your comments to your post, if your post shows the comment
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Inspired by @iwontsignuphere and @jkphl, I made #indieweb Joy Division themed sparklines http://www.kevinmarks.com/joyofsparks.html" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/inspired-by-iwontsignuphere-and-jkphl-i-made-indieweb-joy-division
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aaronpk
sure there may be a *better* way to pass that information along, but you still have to handle the case
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voxpelli
aaronpk: well, if we say that the mechanism for keeping reply-contexts up to date is to rely on webmentions from the thing that you reply to, then we create an expectation that people will do that
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voxpelli
I'm questioning whether that's the right mechanism for keeping reply-contexts up to date
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aaronpk
voxpelli: i agree that sending 200 webmentions when the 201st webmention comes in is not a good solution. basically using webmention to notify commenters that another comment has been made is not a good solution.
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aaronpk
there is likely a better solution to that problem, for exmaple PubSubHubbub places less burden on the publisher
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aaronpk
there may be other solutions too
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aaronpk
but... all that said, you still have to handle receiving that webmention because it might happen anyway
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aaronpk
(we just talked through that in person, i think i summarized it accurately)
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voxpelli
aaronpk: yes, I used a bad argument to prove my point and derailed the entire discussion, I get that, I'm sorry :)
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KevinMarks
you can see the IWC in that graph as activity in the top left
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KevinMarks
and Nürnberg too I think
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voxpelli
an additional reason as to why it's bad to rely on webmentions to update reply-contexts: it's dependent on the receiver accepting ones mention
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tantek.com
edited /reply-context (+709) "/* Brainstorming */ label issues, add "Webmentions to responses inefficiency""
(view diff)
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tantek
voxpelli: I tried to capture aaronpk's (in)efficiency point here: https://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#Webmentions_to_responses_inefficiency - I'm not sure if that's what you were getting at or not but perhaps it covers part of it
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voxpelli
tantek: that seems to capture it fairly well
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voxpelli
thanks!
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tantek
ok cool. I wanted to at least capture it even if we are not encountering the issue(s) yet in practice :)
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tantek
Kevinmarks++ that is ridiculously amazing
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Loqi
Kevinmarks has 215 karma
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tantek
IRC DIVISION
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: is each line a day?
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KevinMarks
yes, each line is a day in PDT
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aaronpk
what timezone determines the start/end day?
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KevinMarks
most recent at the top
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Loqi
[indienews] New post: "The Joy of Sparks 2016-05-08" http://www.kevinmarks.com/joyofsparks.html
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KevinMarks
it's based on your pages, so PDT
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aaronpk
omg did you just crawl all the log pages? :P
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KevinMarks
it walks back through 90 pages and parses microformats to get post times
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KevinMarks
it is a bit slow to parse that many h-entries
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aaronpk
grouped by...? minute? hour?
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KevinMarks
15 minute intervals
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KevinMarks
as that gives 96 points a day, which was what we converged on before
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aaronpk
is 96 the recommendation for the number of x axis points in a sparkline?
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KevinMarks
well, everyone seemed to by using 100 points approx
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KevinMarks
it seemed to give the right kind of spikiness
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KevinMarks
I actually did plots like that in fortran in the 19080s for my university final year project
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tantek
voxpelli: agreed that sending webmentions to responses is a new brainstorm and should be distinguished from what "should" be implemented in current understanding. Making that distinction now.
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tantek
kevinmarks, can you hyperlink those 96 points to their places in the logs?
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tantek
so that one could e.g. click on a peak to figure out what was happening at that point in time?
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KevinMarks
I could yes, though that would make the file a lot bigger
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tantek
and incredibly useful
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tantek
as archive nav
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KevinMarks
socialwg looks very different http://svgur.com/s/5R
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Loqi
SocialWG irc activity
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KevinMarks
you can see the telcons and F2F
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KevinMarks
and the timezone change
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KevinMarks
as Im adjusting to PDT, but the logs are in PST before the switch
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KevinMarks
I I was going to make it dynamic/clickable I'd redo it in d3
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KevinMarks
or maybe add JS for that
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KevinMarks
you could make one per BIM, tantek
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tantek.com
edited /updated (+131) "move notifying responses to brainstorming since it is newer than everything else and subject to reply-context CRUD issues"
(view diff)
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GWG
How long till demos, by the way? On schedule?
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tantek.com
edited /deleted (+135) "move notifying responses to brainstorming since it is newer than everything else and subject to reply-context CRUD issues, put up/downstream confusion adjacent to it"
(view diff)
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tantek
voxpelli: done to both /updated and /deleted - sending webmentions to responses for both those use-cases are now brainstorms, with links to common issue(s) in reply-contexts
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voxpelli
tantek++
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Loqi
tantek has 290 karma
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tantek
that was a very useful/illuminating back/forth and hopefully we've captured the current ideas and problem sufficiently that when it gets discussed again people can keep the challenges in mind
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Zegnat
Starting the demos
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Zegnat
aaronpk is kicking us of
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tantek
KevinMarks: can you hear us? see us?
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Zegnat
aaronpk has worked on "photo things". He is currently only posting photos that would go to Instagram. Those are "highlights" of the huge amount of all photos he takes.
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GWG
I hear nothing. But I see pictures of beverages and people.
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Zegnat
Currently the full archive would go to Flickr, but Flickr is still a silo
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Zegnat
Still nothing GWG?
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KevinMarks
I can see a screen streame dbut no sound
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Zegnat
aaronpk is checking sound
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GWG
Yes. No audio, but some sort of round pie with fruit?
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Zegnat
A nutella pizza, actually
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] They liked us so much they brought out a free Nutella pizza for the table! #indiewebcamp
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @jkphl: It's Demo time at Indiewebcamp Düsseldorf - live stream at https://www.youtube.com/ chat at https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-08
(twitter.com/_/status/729313433091346432)
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GWG
I was trying to be general as I wasn't sure if it was chocolate or nutella.
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Zegnat
There should be sound in a second
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Zegnat
aaronpk did not have collections/albums of photos, and he did not want to have separate photo posts for every single one by it self.
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Zegnat
He is using Flickr to manage collections of photos
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GWG
I have to turn the volume way up though. But I hear it now
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@teckgeer
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @jkphl: It's Demo time at Indiewebcamp Düsseldorf - live stream at https://www.youtube.com/ chat at https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-08
(twitter.com/_/status/729313889796673536)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @aaronpk: I have album posts now on my own site like flickr, which will collect comments
(twitter.com/_/status/729313906053636096)
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Zegnat
Album should be like any other post, it should be able to get comments et al. The next question was how to give every photo its own permalink but still make it part of an album
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Zegnat
The solution would be a small carousel at the bottom
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @aaronpk: so each photo that is in an album has links to the rest of the album
(twitter.com/_/status/729314067328851968)
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Zegnat
Inspiration is being taken from Flickrs display, where the tile grid always goes to full-width of the screen
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Zegnat
The secret being that rows do not need to have the same height
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @aaronpk: I started working on the tiled layout of photos for the album - on flickr every row is full width
(twitter.com/_/status/729314285680132097)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @aaronpk: the secret is that the rows aren't all the same height, os they can make it fit that way
(twitter.com/_/status/729314432862412801)
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Zegnat
jkphl.is things the flickr way is open-sourced, but it has not been found yet by aaronpk. Instead he was working on its own system
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Zegnat
(thanks sknebel)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @aaronpk: people who build this kind of thing don't tend to make it work without javascript
(twitter.com/_/status/729314668183838720)
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Zegnat
aaronpk worked from the fallback system forward. So first just display all the images in HTML, and then put his new library in.
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KevinMarks
there is masonry.js which is close to this
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Zegnat
"Google image search tries to do it, but does it wrong" - tantek
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @aaronpk: I'm not going to use flexbox for this - I'm working on laying it out in JS
(twitter.com/_/status/729315076025393152)
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Zegnat
aaronpk is pretty sure no existing library handles progressive enhancement as good as his will
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KevinMarks
my notes are coming into IRC too
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Zegnat
Next up: adactio
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: the flickr library was open sourced a month ago, and the inputs are all the aspect ratios of the images
(twitter.com/_/status/729315430364368896)
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tantek
looks like Flickr library solution requires knowledge of all image height/width aspect ratios upfront
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Zegnat
adactio has been working on plumbing, just fixing, and then never stopped fixing
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @adactio: I didn't end up doing what I said I was going to do, but I started fixing plumbing and never stopped
(twitter.com/_/status/729315580885372928)
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tantek
thus does not handle incremental loading of image
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Zegnat
(thanks again to jkphl.is sitting next to me)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @adactio: my webmention handling wasn't very good, as I built it on a 15 year old db table for comments
(twitter.com/_/status/729315695725416454)
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webrocker
webrocker
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GWG
We had things called blogs in the day?
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Zegnat
"Stuff that was messed up is now less messed up" - adactio
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Zegnat
Likes have been fixed on adactio.com
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @adactio: so now I have a custom table that stores responses, likes and so on better
(twitter.com/_/status/729315876889989120)
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Zegnat
And the error that showed with aaronpk's reaction at the demo yesterday morning has also been fixed
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @adactio: @aaronpk posted a beer yesterday, which now is parsed correctly
(twitter.com/_/status/729316005772562433)
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Zegnat
adactio is now trying to redo the photo posting demo
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @adactio: I've been using a deprecated twitter call for posting images - so I updated
(twitter.com/_/status/729316129856995328)
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loqi.me
created /CDURU (+181) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @adactio: so the demo that didn't work yesterday now does - it POSSEs to twitter and flickr
(twitter.com/_/status/729316298421719040)
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Zegnat
Photo posting works now: https://adactio.com/notes/10618 and it is POSSEd using the latest API version for Twitter (away from deprecated)
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GWG
As long as it lays the groundwork for the future, improving things is still good.
#
Loqi
[Jeremy Keith] Demo time!
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GWG
applauds
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KevinMarks
who's up?
glennjones joined the channel
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sknebel
vandrijevik
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Zegnat
vandrijevik now supports events in his travel log
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @vandrijevik: I did some cleanup and added things to my travel plans to show events at the top
(twitter.com/_/status/729316761045106689)
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loqi.me
created /undeleted (+193) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
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Zegnat
His "stays" have been updated to be parsable h-events
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @vandrijevik: and I made the stays an h-event not an h-card so it had duration too
(twitter.com/_/status/729316857283371008)
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Zegnat
Another hack day spend on refactoring and cleaning on his side: the HTML markup is now more readable and less nested
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Zegnat
Reasons for keeping flights as one event rather than departure/arrival: keep duration neat
EmmaH joined the channel
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @adactio: It's OK to have more than one location for an event - that can be true [ie I'm not in Duusseldorf]
(twitter.com/_/status/729317249455022080)
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GWG
applauds
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Zegnat
Next up fmarx.com
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tantek.com
edited /undeleted (+56) "see also"
(view diff)
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tantek
what is metalsmith
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "metalsmith" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10L3
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Zegnat
He wanted to move away from having everything on medium only
#
Zegnat
His medium articles now link to "canonical" versions on his own domain
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Zegnat
Where the site is a staticly generated website through metalsmith.io
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sknebel
Metalsmith is [http://www.metalsmith.io/], a static site generator written in [[JavaScript]]
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loqi.me
created /Metalsmith (+119) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-08/line/1462717805033 and dfn added by sknebel"
(view diff)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @fredericmarx: my site https://fmarx.com/ uses a static site generator, metalsmith.io
(twitter.com/_/status/729317794072776705)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @fredericmarx: medium has a feature where it works out what a link on a line at its own means
(twitter.com/_/status/729317907503587328)
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Zegnat
fmarx.com was worried about embedding (which Medium handles really well)
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@IMJACKTG
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @vandrijevik: I did some cleanup and added things to my travel plans to show events at the top
(twitter.com/_/status/729318022918320128)
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@IMJACKTG
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @vandrijevik: and I made the stays an h-event not an h-card so it had duration too
(twitter.com/_/status/729318023845253120)
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@handsonl1fe
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @vandrijevik: and I made the stays an h-event not an h-card so it had duration too
(twitter.com/_/status/729318025300684802)
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Zegnat
He is running javascript that finds links where href === text content it will replace it with an embed
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @fredericmarx: for vimeo I don't want to put iframes in my markdown, so I expand links that are embedded
(twitter.com/_/status/729318132477657088)
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Zegnat
This way he did not need to add embed code into his plain text markdown files
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @fredericmarx: if href== text content I can auto-add richer links
(twitter.com/_/status/729318257358831616)
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Zegnat
And, as a quick aside after aplaus, webmentions are there too
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Zegnat
Next up: EmmaH
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tantek
next up EmmaHodge.org
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @fredericmarx: and I have webmentions working too
(twitter.com/_/status/729318383506710529)
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Zegnat
EmmaH wanted to learn how CSS could be used to display things differently
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @EmmaGHodge: I had 3 objectives today - organising homepage, layout and fonts, and photos
(twitter.com/_/status/729318525647523841)
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Zegnat
As well as how photos can be uploaded
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @EmmaGHodge: I have new fonts and played around with layouts, and got photos upload working
(twitter.com/_/status/729318709139939328)
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Zegnat
EmmaH is now working with a new flow, instead of editing pages straight inside of GitHub repository she can now use GitHub Desktop and Atom to work locally
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @EmmaGHodge: I downloaded the Mac github client and atom editor so that I have good tools for my site
(twitter.com/_/status/729318831076696065)
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Zegnat
what is atom?
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Loqi
Atom is an XML format for publishing feeds that was developed as a more formally specified alternative to RSS https://indiewebcamp.com/Atom
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Zegnat
Aah … hmm
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Zegnat
what is atom.io?
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tantek
overloadedterms--
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "atom.io" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10L4
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Loqi
overloadedterms has -1 karma
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Zegnat
Atom.io is a code editor from GitHub https://atom.io
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@faulancr
Vom Hauptbahnhof fährt der 707 Bus Schienenersatzverkehr direkt zu @sipgateDE Wupperstrasse. #btconf #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/netzvagabund/status/729299869945466881
(twitter.com/_/status/729318993543204864)
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loqi.me
created /Atom.io (+79) "prompted by Zegnat https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-08/line/1462718149527 and dfn added by Zegnat"
(view diff)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @EmmaGHodge: Andreas describes himself as a notorious team player and I endorse that description
(twitter.com/_/status/729319076628078593)
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Zegnat
He continued work on the webmention plugin for Craft CMS
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Zegnat
Webmentions are now sucessfully received
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Zegnat
As well as likes and reposts
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Zegnat
Appearance tweaks are still bein g considered
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @m_ott: I am now receiving webmention successfully at https://matthiasott.com/articles
(twitter.com/_/status/729319368257998848)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @m_ott: and I have likes and repost parsing working too
(twitter.com/_/status/729319475267260416)
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Zegnat
Back-end demo
#
Zegnat
You will get some basic options within Craft CMS to configure the webmention endpoint
#
Zegnat
There is also a nice POST form to manually add a mention
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @m_ott: I have a webmention sending UI as well
(twitter.com/_/status/729319680423297024)
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Zegnat
"human-friendly webmention endpoint" - adactio
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Zegnat
Back-end is also showing a switch for whether you want to receive brid.gy webmentions or not
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Zegnat
The next step would be putting it up on GitHub for the world.
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @m_ott: I have a human friendly webmention endpoint here: https://matthiasott.com/webmention
(twitter.com/_/status/729320053024260097)
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Zegnat
But it still needs validation of the webmention before it is really done for wide use
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Zegnat
Next up: Keith
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Zegnat
Showing is something he finished yesterday
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Zegnat
HTML Slidy does not work well with mobile, so they have been working on responsive slidy (rSlidy)
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tantek.com
edited /deleted (+629) "s/GONE/Gone. delete any POSSE copies as recommended practice (in process of implementing!), note"
(view diff)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb Keith Andrews: I have an html slideshow linked from my talks using rSlidy
(twitter.com/_/status/729320843428298752)
Lancey joined the channel
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Zegnat
It can now use touch to sweep through slides
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb Keith Andrews: for example, i have sides at http://keithandrews.com/talks/2015/ddj-2015-11-26/ and I can control with my phone
(twitter.com/_/status/729321131711176704)
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Zegnat
Tilting has also been implemented
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@ralph_hansen
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @t: the flickr library was open sourced a month ago, and the inputs are all the aspect ratios of the images
(twitter.com/_/status/729321203446513664)
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Zegnat
Using the MotionEvents API
#
@kevinmarks
#indieweb Keith Andrews: can also navigate slides by tilting the phone
(twitter.com/_/status/729321273440919552)
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@ralph_hansen
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @aaronpk: so each photo that is in an album has links to the rest of the album
(twitter.com/_/status/729321283578675200)
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Zegnat
All written in TypeScript, but without other external dependencies
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@ralph_hansen
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @aaronpk: I have album posts now on my own site like flickr, which will collect comments
(twitter.com/_/status/729321351186677760)
lukasros and marcthiele joined the channel
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@btconf
RT @faulancr Vom Hauptbahnhof fährt der 707 Bus Schienenersatzverkehr direkt zu @sipgateDE Wupperstrasse. #btconf #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/netzvagabund/status/729299869945466881
(twitter.com/_/status/729321598419910657)
#
Zegnat
Next up: glennjones
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Zegnat
He has been looking into owntracks
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Zegnat
You need to run a native app to get geo tracking
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@webrocker
Nice #webmention plugin work for Craft CMS demoed by @m_ott - def. need to check out this cms https://matthiasott.com/articles/the-art-of-the-restart @indiewebcamp
(twitter.com/_/status/729321911809921024)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @glennjones: I had a look at an app called owntracks that runs in the background on the phone as web apps don't do that
(twitter.com/_/status/729321914934562816)
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loqi.me
created /OwnTracks (+60) "prompted by sknebel and dfn added by sknebel"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /updated (+97) "/* Handling */ update any POSSE copies, link to details on POSSE page"
(view diff)
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Zegnat
Uses NQTT for message queueing
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @glennjones: this app logs your location and send events when you arrive at a geofenced location
(twitter.com/_/status/729322084078223360)
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tantek.com
edited /deleted (+49) "/* Handling */ delete POSSE copies details"
(view diff)
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Zegnat
The iPhone app lets you set-up a URL where it will communicate the geo data to
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @glennjones: it has a find your friends feature, which uses MQTT to send events that I can tap into
(twitter.com/_/status/729322361615327232)
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Zegnat
So glennjones has build a webserver that can sit and listen to inputs
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GWG
OwnTracks looks intriguing.
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Zegnat
Location comes up as soon as the app publishes
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Zegnat
JSON content with the actual location in lat/lon (and some battery data)
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Zegnat
Using HTTP Basic security
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @glennjones: it sends lat long and time out via json to a webhook post
(twitter.com/_/status/729322614632517632)
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Zegnat
Android is more difficult because it uses NQTT, so you will need a server that actually handles that
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Zegnat
Glenn is using an extra server that accepts that and then just forwards it to the standard HTTP POST based endpoint
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Zegnat
What will hopefully happen in the future is that it will trigger notifications for him so he can chose on his phone if he wants to do a checkin or not
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tantek.com
edited /POSSE (+4) "/* POSSE or Send Webmentions First */ update FAQ link"
(view diff)
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Zegnat
Possibly using geofencing so it only comes up for specific locations.
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @glennjones: in future I want tot take it a bit further and do chrome notifications SO I can check in from those events
(twitter.com/_/status/729323003998183424)
jansauer joined the channel
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Zegnat
Next up: bastian
glennjones joined the channel
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Zegnat
He is a big fan of Airtable, a Google Spreasheet alternative
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Zegnat
The table will give you an API for everything
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Zegnat
READ and POST APIs are ready out of the box
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @bastianallgeier: I'm a fan of Airtable - a google spreadsheet alternative that gives an api for everything
(twitter.com/_/status/729323351265529861)
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Zegnat
He wants to move from this hosted service to something he would control himself
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @bastianallgeier: it has a lot of prebuilt column types and layouts that are useful
(twitter.com/_/status/729323516735021056)
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@diddleapp
RT @kevinmarks #indieweb @glennjones: it has a find your friends feature, which uses MQTT to send events that I can tap into
(twitter.com/_/status/729323517779554304)
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Zegnat
It is not about replicating airtable, but more about how such a back-end would work for oneself
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @bastianallgeier: now airtable is a hosted service, so I wanted a backend for myself
(twitter.com/_/status/729323635840684032)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @bastianallgeier: i wanted to make it file based as that is easier to back up
(twitter.com/_/status/729323805223440384)
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Zegnat
You define a DB schema (YAML) but with column types that you would not usually find in a database
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Zegnat
The back-end then gives you special parsers (validators, getters, setters) for those specific types
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @bastianallgeier: I define a schema but with column types that are good for online use
(twitter.com/_/status/729324092424232960)
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Zegnat
All the data ends up in simple YAML files, for nice/easy back-uping
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @bastianallgeier: the posts end up in YAML files so they are easy to back up
(twitter.com/_/status/729324234137317378)
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Zegnat
Possible extension will be a straight backup method, to make your prototyping even faster and less painful
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@m_ott
@webrocker @indiewebcamp Craft is great! You have complete control and (≠ WordPress) you can start without assumptions reg. the frontend.
(twitter.com/_/status/729324378652082176)
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Zegnat
jkphl.is did a lot of housecleaning as well, and helped juli (who is up next)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @jkphl: I did a lot of tidying up on my site and helped Julie
(twitter.com/_/status/729324611993657344)
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Zegnat
Domainname got registered at the bar
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Zegnat
She was wondering why she would need a website when she had a tumblr, flickr, instagram, etc
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @iwontsignuphere: I made my nick name Julie Anne Noying a while ago, and this week a domain name was registered at the bar
(twitter.com/_/status/729324852989984768)
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Loqi
julie anne
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @iwontsignuphere: I have rel me links to my twitter and flickr and an example photo from my collection
(twitter.com/_/status/729325238220038144)
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Loqi
The Joy of Sparks 2016-05-08
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Zegnat
Next up quick.io
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Loqi
Andreas Nebiker
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Zegnat
Hr has been “catching up a bit”
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Zegnat
Has been giving the website (after resurrecting it before IWC) a big front-end overhaul
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Zegnat
And implementing h-card, like announced this morning
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@webrocker
@m_ott my cms of choice is @processwire - wp only because of my blog running on it since 2005 :) @indiewebcamp
(twitter.com/_/status/729325628550483968)
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Zegnat
His second plan was to get a service worker working
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Zegnat
But it currently only serves the HTML
dogada joined the channel
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Zegnat
The idea being that adding this to your homescreen on your phone you should have all information for contact right there
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Zegnat
Even when offline
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb Andreas Nebiker: I got h-card working and started to get a service worker installed for offline use
(twitter.com/_/status/729325889930993664)
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Zegnat
The idea is that the current site will only show when offline (offline only gets an h-card) otherwise people get an actual feed of recent activities
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Zegnat
Interesting idea for offering different contect depending on online status
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb Andreas Nebiker: so I show my face on the site when you're offline and replace with updates later
(twitter.com/_/status/729326154205659136)
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KevinMarks
who's up?
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Zegnat
sknebel, do you have the URL?
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Zegnat
is up now
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Zegnat
showing of his work on service workers
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@Editor_Page
Heute in Düsseldorf jetzt hier live #indieWebCamp nicht familientauglich @IndieWebCampDE https://www.youtube.com/
(twitter.com/_/status/729326563339190272)
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Zegnat
He has worked on cache refreshing for the service worker
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Zegnat
He has also been working on his micropub implementation
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @webgefrickel: I have a service worker set up, and it can bring in infor from elsewhere
(twitter.com/_/status/729326817039896576)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @webgefrickel: I'm now working on my micropub
(twitter.com/_/status/729326860039905281)
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Zegnat
Service working has an hash of the JSON package and that way can reregister itself as a newer version
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Zegnat
seems to be the gist of it
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Zegnat
Jochm is showing of what they have been implementing for the bookmarking service
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@m_ott
Photo grids, flicking slides by accelerometer, a new backend scheme, APIs, ServiceWorkers. Impressive #Demos at #IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf!
(twitter.com/_/status/729327409644875777)
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Zegnat
token endpoint is not fully operational yet, but they are working on their own auth implementation
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sknebel
Zegnat is presenting now
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KevinMarks
who is zegnat?
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Loqi
Martijn van der Ven is a long-time web tinkerer living in Tösse, Sweden http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Vanderven.se/martijn/
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sknebel
worked on h-card, added facebook messenger barcode, made it representative
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @martinvdven: I added h-card to my site as a representative hcard
(twitter.com/_/status/729328112501035008)
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sknebel
has telephone numbers in h-card, with protocols in front. doesn't know if that work
glennjones joined the channel
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sknebel
also made endpoint to get pinboard tags for random urls
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @martinvdven: if you're parsing h-card for phonenumber, I'm using urls so check if that works for youu
(twitter.com/_/status/729328453732864001)
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sknebel
(normally requires auth)
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @martinvdven: I made an endpoint to retrieve pinboard tags for arbirtary URLs
(twitter.com/_/status/729328678140706816)
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KevinMarks
who'd this?
marcthiele joined the channel
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sknebel
he looked at micropub
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sknebel
wants to make an intelligent endpoint
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Zegnat
Would like to create a natural language date parser, inspired by fantastical's handling
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Zegnat
was that
jansauer joined the channel
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Zegnat
Now up, sknebel
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Zegnat
Also did mostly plumbing stuff
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Zegnat
Worked on scheduled posts going up in the future, and hold off on doing webmentions until a post is actually officially published
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @sknebel: I mostly did plumbing stuff for future posts so I can send webmentions once the post has actually been published
(twitter.com/_/status/729329778440818688)
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Zegnat
sknebel showing how data is stored on the server end
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Zegnat
the flat file storage TXT files are available through a public URL
wolftune and jansauer joined the channel
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sknebel
yeah, loqi likes my markup now ;) (sort of. image needs an alt tag...)
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tantek
voxpelli: do you know how to manually unregister or reset a protocol handler that has been registered via RegisterProtocolHandler?
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voxpelli
tantek: yes, depends on browser, you're Firefox I assume?
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tantek
yes user is on FIrefox
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tantek
demoing now :)
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Zegnat
Now a demo of a protocol handler for web-actions
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Zegnat
what is web-action?
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voxpelli
Preferences -> Applications -> Search for "web+action" -> select value in dropdown
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Loqi
A web action is the interface and user experience of taking a specific discrete action, across the web, from one site to another site or application https://indiewebcamp.com/web_action
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voxpelli
tantek: "Application details..." in dropdown allows deletion of setting
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tantek
we definitely need to document that in the wiki
#
Zegnat
href="web-action:auth" being shown in use
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Zegnat
Safari is considering support, but no real support yet. You might want to check that (using JS) and display web-action only when supported
#
Zegnat
several shoutouts to voxpelli
#
Zegnat
suspense in the room as tantek says he might have something to demo
marcthiele joined the channel
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Zegnat
"its half working"
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Zegnat
s/its/it's
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Loqi
Zegnat meant to say: "it's half working"
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Zegnat
But he is advocating for us doing it, even when the XKCD seems to suggest you should stop doing this
#
Zegnat
Sometimes you just need to lose a discussion
jansauer joined the channel
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Zegnat
tantek is now demoing his /Delete flow
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Zegnat
(wait, the wiki is not /Delete?)
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sknebel
What is deleted?
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Loqi
A deleted is a post that has been removed https://indiewebcamp.com/deleted
aaronpk_ joined the channel
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Zegnat
Meta data status as 410 Gone
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sknebel
^wiki documentation of his discussion with voxpelli earlier, also in IRC logs earlier today
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aaronparecki.com
created /Delete (+20) "r because it was linked to"
(view diff)
#
Zegnat
instead of actual HTTP header change
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Zegnat
Tantek makes a post disappear automatically, by setting a future delete date
#
Zegnat
Navigation still needs fixing, as it does not skip over deleted posts
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Loqi
[Tantek Çelik] This post is gone.
j12t joined the channel
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Zegnat
dt-deleted items will stick around in the feed for readers to update
#
Zegnat
Deleting POSSE copies is still an open issue
#
Zegnat
demos ending
#
Zegnat
adactio and aaronpk stand up to end things
astro joined the channel
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tantek
see https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE#Delete for discussion of deleting POSSE copies
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Zegnat
beers and bbq outside, so we ar thanking sponsor sipgate again for the venue, food, et al
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Loqi
The Joy of Sparks 2016-05-08
#
kylewm
really impressed with the demos, great work all!
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Zegnat
Shoutout to veganstraightedge.com for the new logo
#
Loqi
The Joy of Sparks 2016-05-08
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GWG
Did someone say New York?
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@kevinmarks
#indieweb @t: I got deleting posts working on my site eg http://tantek.com/2016/129/t2 is gone, by setting a deleted date
(twitter.com/_/status/729333862048800768)
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Zegnat
glenn will make the journey if there is one in brighton
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Zegnat
I think you did, GWG
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Zegnat
clean-up time
jansauer joined the channel
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Loqi
SocialWG irc activity
#
Zegnat
signing off again
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voxpelli
for web-actions/indie-config: How to remove protocol handler from Chrome: Settings -> Advanced -> Content settings -> Manage handlers(?)
#
@webgefrickel
And it's a wrap! Had lots of fun @indiewebcamp - but now I have even more on my todo-list ;)
(twitter.com/_/status/729335233049468930)
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[andreasnebiker] joined the channel
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[andreasnebiker]
Hi from Slack. Finally a reason to use this
#
Zegnat
pinging [andreasnebiker] as a test
#
GWG
Hello
#
Zegnat
Does it translate to Slack or not
#
Zegnat
also trying without squarebrackets: andreasnebiker
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Zegnat
Also trying slack syntax: @andreasnebiker
j12t, hongpong, dogada, jansauer and [andreasnebiker] joined the channel
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[andreasnebiker]
So far no dice @zegnat ;(
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Pierre-O, jansauer and [shaners] joined the channel
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[shaners]
Thanks to everyone who wrote in the channel what was happening at camp, so I don't have to watch the videos. :+1::skin-tone-2:
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@C_Logemann
RT @wltrd Als @sipgate Kunde freue ich mich über die Unterstützung vom #indiewebcamp Düsseldorf. Tolles Essen & Location! https://twitter.com/wltrd/status/729220824876630016/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/729376380102819841)
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[shaners]
And be sure to order up your IWC shirt in the next 7 days.
j12t and rrix joined the channel
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@LitaPirrassa
RT @IndieWebCampDE 1. #IndieWeb Hack Day im @zbau_nbg #Nürnberg am 22.6. im Rahmen der @openSUSE-Konferenz 2016 — jetzt Platz sichern! http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day
(twitter.com/_/status/729383590371438592)
begriffs, singpolyma and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
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[kevinmarks]
Shaners, did you like the joy division sparklines?
[shaners] joined the channel
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[shaners]
Kevinmarks: 1. I wouldn't call those sparklines. Which is fine. A line chart is perfectly ok. 2. I was never into joy division. So, while the original shirt looks cool, the remixes aren't anything special to me. 3. But your execution was very good. And the idea is clever.
Pierre-O joined the channel
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GWG
I have to figure out what to do next
singpolyma joined the channel
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GWG
I think I wrote something vaguely Salmentionish, but I heard about this discussion earlier I need to catch up on
j12t joined the channel
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sknebel
GWG: yeah, also look at the wiki edit history for today,i edits on on /updated, /deleted, /reply-context hopefully document it quite well
#
GWG
I did a lot of work recently on updating.
#
GWG
But I saw something about amplification that concerns me
[andreasnebiker] joined the channel
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[andreasnebiker]
Hi matthiasott
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GWG
I added code that I haven't tested that looks an h-entrys marked as comments on a webmention retrieved source and adds them as threaded comments triggering the same code that enhances the original webmentions
#
GWG
I need to figure out how to test it
John_Duh, KartikPrabhu, j12t and begriffs joined the channel
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Inspired by @iwontsignuphere and @jkphl, I made #indieweb Joy Division themed sparklines http://www.kevinmarks.com/joyofsparks.html" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/inspired-by-iwontsignuphere-and-jkphl-i-made-indieweb-joy-division
jansauer joined the channel
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@thrilway
@JesseThorn I 100% agree. I'd be more interested to see collaboration between podcasters and (e.g.) the IndieWeb community, though.
(twitter.com/_/status/729422834276040704)
#
Loqi
[indieweb] "IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf" by Stefan https://eay.cc/2016/indiewebcamp-duesseldorf/
#
Loqi
[indieweb] "IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf:" http://eay.li/2ta
j12t joined the channel
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aaronpk
haha [shaners] your "thanks for the irc notes" comment is great and also sad because it takes a lot of effort to make the videos of the sessions
#
GWG
aaronpk, I liked the video, but the audio was very low.
#
aaronpk
really? darn
#
aaronpk
was it better yesterday or today?
tantek joined the channel
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GWG
Yesterday, I think. I said it was low at the time. Had to raise my speaker volume
#
Zegnat
Oh man, I must have not seen that GWG, else I would have raised the issue with aaronpk, like I did when people wrote there was no audio at all at the start
j12t joined the channel
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Zegnat
also a thank you to sknebel who jumped in and got some personal URLs from people I didn’t have at my fingertips during today's demoing session
mlncn joined the channel
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bear
cool - my posts now us dt-published, dt-updated and dt-deleted as needed
#
bear
is very happy
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@webrocker
well chuffed after being awake for 20+ hrs. great 2nd day of getting #indieweb stuff done & great #btconf warm up afterwards - cu tomorrow
(twitter.com/_/status/729443966702243840)
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