#indiewebcamp 2016-05-06

2016-05-06 UTC
mlncn, wolcen_idle and [kevinmarks] joined the channel
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[kevinmarks] Tantek and Aaron on planes the channel is calm
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myfreeweb wtf, bridgy publish's webmention endpoint returns 403 (with Google AppEngine's HTML) to my server... but works from my home IP address
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KevinMarks is your server on appengine too?
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myfreeweb KevinMarks: no
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GWG Evening
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colintedford Not really #indieweb, but #ownyourdata: Apple Music hoovers up subscriber's music collection & deletes local copies w/out asking https://blog.vellumatlanta.com/2016/05/04/apple-stole-my-music-no-seriously/
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Loqi colintedford: benthatmustbeme left you a message on 11/11 at 8:36am: that was brainstorming at the time, a number of people have contact pages for additional info currently, but i don't know if anyone is yet routing it really http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-11/line/1447259787000
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GWG Thinking
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "deleted post support in dobrado #indieweb" https://unicyclic.com/mal/2016-05-06-deleted_post_support_in_dobrado_indieweb
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@malcolmblaney deleted post support in dobrado #indieweb: https://unicyclic.com/mal/2016-05-06-deleted_post_support_in_dobrado_indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/728419985484222468)
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@znmeb I just registered for IndieWeb Summit 2016 https://ti.to/indiewebcamp/summit-2016 (twitter.com/_/status/728432637904179202)
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GWG Does anyone send webmentions with a JSON source?
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GWG Apparently, if you have both classic microformats and microformats 2 in different configurations, it does create a problem.
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Loqi [indieweb] "Bring packages mf2 and indieweb libraries via microformats composer" by HongPong https://www.drupal.org/node/2719867
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@KathyLeeDrupal Hey! What do you think of Bring packages mf2 and indieweb libraries via microformats composer? I'm trying to build… https://www.drupal.org/node/2719867 (twitter.com/_/status/728455383585411072)
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aaronpk Good morning from Düsseldorf!
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@egoexpress RT @IndieWebCampDE 1. #IndieWeb Hack Day im @zbau_nbg #Nürnberg am 22.6. im Rahmen der @openSUSE-Konferenz 2016 — jetzt Platz sichern! http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/Nuremberg/IndieWeb-Hack-Day (twitter.com/_/status/728477425907032065)
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@egoexpress RT @aaronpk Just launched @indiewebcamp t-shirts! Order now to arrive before Summit 2016! https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/728477110700904448)
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@egoexpress RT @jkphl As recently announced: I'll start a Homebrew Website Club Nuremberg as of May 25th. Join in! +@egoexpress #indieweb https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampDE/status/728159794587000833 (twitter.com/_/status/728476921235824640)
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@egoexpress RT @jkphl #IndieWeb enthusiasts: We just started the @IndieWebCampDE account for #DACH focused announcements & events. Please follow us there. :) (twitter.com/_/status/728476839153278977)
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@btconf A very warm welcome to @aaronpk, who just arrived in Düsseldorf 20 mins early. Switched on the sun for you. Enjoy! #btconf #IndieWebCamp (twitter.com/_/status/728476332821073922)
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@nitot RT @aaronpk Just launched @indiewebcamp t-shirts! Order now to arrive before Summit 2016! https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/728491956914036736)
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@btconf Welcome in Düsseldorf @t for #IndieWebCamp! Hopefully you are not too exhausted after the long flight and are able to enjoy the sun. #btconf (twitter.com/_/status/728504490194833408)
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@rifa RT @SheSaysBrighton Reckon YOU should be representing @indiewebcamp but can’t afford the costs to Portland? Apply here: http://2016.indieweb.org/#travel-assistance #womenintech (twitter.com/_/status/728503223213039616)
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tantek wow just read this: https://blog.vellumatlanta.com/2016/05/04/apple-stole-my-music-no-seriously/
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tantek that's really messed up
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tantek applemusic--
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Loqi applemusic has -1 karma
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tantek "people who cancelled their Apple Music subscription after the free, three-month trial, only to discover that all of their own music files had been deleted and there was no way to get them back."
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tantek seriously WTFBBQ
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tantek KevinMarks: ^^^ I figure you would be all over this!!!
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KartikPrabhu silos gonna silo
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tantek KartikPrabhu: this is much worse than just silos gonna silo
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tantek it's like a scorched earth policy. scorched hard drive in this case.
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tantek what is Apple Music
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Apple Music" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Kr
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tantek Apple Music is a paid music subscription service from [[Apple]] that offers a free three-month trial, deletes all you local music files after uploading them to your servers, and then after the trial requires you to pay to access your music files you had before signing-up.
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loqi.me created /Apple_Music (+299) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-06/line/1462524800348 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes it is much worse, but there is nothing one can do
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tantek.com edited /Apple_Music (+217) "cite, their, see also, articles" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yes there is. we document their user-unfriendly practices ^^^
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tantek what is Apple Music?
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cweiske I'm adding such things to my personal do-not-buy-from-these-companies list http://p.cweiske.de/159
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Loqi Apple Music is a paid music subscription service from Apple that offers a free three-month trial, deletes all you local music files after uploading them to their servers, and then after the trial requires you to pay to access your music files you had before signing-up https://indiewebcamp.com/Apple_Music
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bnvk is very happy with being a Linux user :)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: sure. good luck changing Apple's mind
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KartikPrabhu bnvk: right up there with you
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tantek KartikPrabhu: we may not be able to change Apple's mind, but perhaps we can help share the warnings and help others avoid the problems.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I mean that even down to the level of harware
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KartikPrabhu hardware*
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bnvk I grew up on Apple computers, I used to love Apple... *sigh*
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tantek I think the only reasonable strategy with Apple hardware/software at this point is to turn off everything "cloud" and do local backups only.
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bnvk now, just need to keep making Linux more usable and accessible to non-nerds :)
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tantek That being said, we need an indie syncing solution
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bnvk KartikPrabhu: what do you run?
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tantek bnvk, Linux is not really usable and accessible to nerds either, especially nerds who have no time nor interest in Linux admintax.
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KartikPrabhu bnvk: IMO Ubuntu goes a long way towards that, but not far enough
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miklb http://www.imore.com/no-apple-music-not-deleting-tracks-your-hard-drive-unless-you-tell-it
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bnvk indie syncing solution --> https://syncthing.net
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bnvk I find it quite robust and powerful
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bnvk tantek: give http://elementaryos.org a try!
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KartikPrabhu tantek: sure, but it is much preferable to using a Windows or Mac
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bnvk and Gnome in general is quite friendly these days
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bnvk offers easy integration with Googl, Facebook, or ownCloud
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tantek what is syncthing?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "syncthing" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Ks
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bnvk there's lots of good awareness in parts of the Linux community about usability and making things accessible
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tantek what is Ubuntu
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tantek what is Gnome
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Ubuntu" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Kt
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/GNOME
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KartikPrabhu tantek: does the wiki need personal hardware pages now?
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tantek miklb do you use Apple Music?
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miklb tantek yes
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I think if it helps ownyourdata or in some way enables your indieweb site then yes
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miklb and iTunes Match
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tantek miklb - I don't accept the "unless you tell it to" because that kind of thing is usually the *default* in Apple software these days, expressed in tl;dr text in dialogs that people just click ok
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tantek like how no one reads the ToS etc that iTunes makes you ok
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KartikPrabhu alright
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tantek it's too long to expect anyone to reasonably read it
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miklb tantek I won't argue that there are some UI issues. But if you write original content of any kind on any platform and don't have multiple backups, that's on you IMO
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bnvk yah, srsly... a few setences with easy checkboxes
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tantek it's like, before you use this software, please read the entire works of Shakespeare (I think someone did an analysis of this before)
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tantek miklb - "some UI issues" never excuses data loss
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bnvk that's a HUGE overstep on Apple's part
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tantek Apple especially is supposed to be known for user-friendliness and thus is particularly bad on them
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miklb tantek I disagree that it was data loss. I suspect there's a lot more to the story that author isn't sharing.
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bnvk if an upgrade is going to go through your harddrive and delete files- that needs a claring big banner with warning sign
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tantek due to the itunes mismatch, it's data loss
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tantek that's bad software - it should never delete anything that's not at least checksumming to a copy it has.
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michel_v bnvk: plus confirmation, plus it should not be the default behaviour
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tantek it should not even be an option
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tantek here, do you want to use this tool that automatically hurts you? yes/no
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miklb again, I've been using the services since inception. I have pure original copies on the computer I set the service up on. Nothing is mismatched there.
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KartikPrabhu decides not to enter the OS debate
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michel_v tantek: a checksum would be too strict for the most common use case (people with mp3s of ripped CDs or dodgy origin)
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tantek michel_v: is that really so common these days?
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tantek only us old-schoolers with our own ripped MP3s
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michel_v minimum restriction would be to avoid deleting something that's already in higher quality on the computer
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michel_v tantek: the dodgy part is more common :)
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tantek which BTW I bet matches up with people who *want* to keep the local copies *no matter what*
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tantek don't really care about the dodgy part
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tantek if it hurts legitimate users, it's bad
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bnvk KartikPrabhu: hehe agree, we shall just keep having our fun and freedom and data :)
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michel_v you can't throw a stone at a group of legitimate users without hitting one who downloaded some obscure bootleg from a dodgy source (because they're super fans of a band and it's not available legally)
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bnvk I mean to be fair, Apple's decision was probably informed by the sheer quantity of how many people use Spotify, et al and think "cloud == my data"
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tantek.com edited /Apple_Music (+384) "/* Articles */ add counterpoint article, with criticism of "unless you tell it to" apologism" (view diff)
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bnvk back in 2012, a clever 25 yr old mildly tech saavy (non-nerd) friend say "Spotify is the best invention of the last decade"
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bnvk they meant it in all seriousness
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KartikPrabhu for what its worth, the only reason I could rescue my PhD thesis from a HDD crash was because I could open up my laptop switch HDDs and install Linux
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bnvk when I propbed them on *why* they thought this, the reasoning was basically 1. easy search & discovery of almost any song 2. seemless syncing between devices
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miklb I guess I'm just an old curmudgeon who believes in "the cloud" && having multiple backups of ones data
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bnvk that dead simple UI / UX of click on band names and press play (on ANY device) is orders of magnitude more friendly and accessible than local music files
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tantek what is the cloud?
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Loqi cloud within the context of the indieweb refers to "cloud computing", computing services which provide: https://indiewebcamp.com/cloud
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@bastianallgeier Yay, just found out that I can make it at least to the second half of IndieWebCamp on Saturday instead of Sunday. #happy (twitter.com/_/status/728513077776363520)
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@adactio RT @SheSaysBrighton Reckon YOU should be representing @indiewebcamp but can’t afford the costs to Portland? Apply here: http://2016.indieweb.org/#travel-assistance #womenintech (twitter.com/_/status/728511915970940929)
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@CowalenciaWebs Trackbacks, pingbacks y webmentions. Vía @wprincipiante http://wprincipiante.es/trackbacks-pingbacks-y-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/728510905986781185)
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KartikPrabhu wait wait wait "If you are a member of a group that is typically underrepresented (e.g. if you are not hetero, white, cis and male)" http://2016.indieweb.org/#travel-assistance
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Loqi IndieWeb Summit
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KartikPrabhu that is opposite
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KartikPrabhu oops
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KartikPrabhu why is the "not" not showing in my browser
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tantek sometimes wikipedia dfns really suck
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KartikPrabhu who runs indieweb.org?
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tantek.com edited /cloud (+50) "fix dfn to be less jargony, reflect skeptical reality more," (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: aaronpk has the domain I believe
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bnvk wonders if Loqi does something like a "poll"
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tantek michel_v: I have no sympathy for any company, designer, engineer etc. that treats users as criminals by default. re: "without hitting one who downloaded some obscure bootleg from a dodgy source"
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tantek that's not good user-centric design and is never an excuse for any product design decision
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tantek what is a poll?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "poll" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Ku
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michel_v well I'd rather assume that an unknown file is a file that belongs to the user
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tantek right, and more than that, that an unknown file has *very high personal value* to the user
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michel_v exactly
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tantek alright, I updated the cloud definition, feel free to further edit if it seems too opinionated vs factual
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tantek what is the cloud?
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Loqi cloud in short means "other people's servers" and within the context of the indieweb can also refer to "cloud computing", services which supposedly (though rarely in practice) provide online services that are on-demand, broadly available, elastic, and measured service https://indiewebcamp.com/cloud
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michel_v I mean that album titled "Radiohead Nimes 2005" (or whenever they played there) that's actually an illegal recording probably has very high personal value, and the tracks shouldn't be replaced by an official live album's
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miklb michel_v who does that?
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michel_v miklb: it's an hypothetical thing that could happen with apple music (or any software that tries to save space unbeknownst to the user)
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miklb michel_v but in Apple's case, they would only do that in their iCloud library, not physically alter your original file on the machine that you set the service up on.
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@JayGreasley RT @SheSaysBrighton Reckon YOU should be representing @indiewebcamp but can’t afford the costs to Portland? Apply here: http://2016.indieweb.org/#travel-assistance #womenintech (twitter.com/_/status/728516983776530432)
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tantek michel_v not hypothetical according to that first article on /Apple_Music
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tantek miklb, regardless, I see no justification for deleting 120+GB of music files from a user's local drive, whether it was their primary or secondary machine
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tantek note that that distinction "the machine that you set the service up on" is so not obvious nor something that users really consider
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tantek nor is it obvious in the UI
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tantek a *user* has an account, not a machine
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tantek the model is that a *user* sets up the service
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tantek not "a machine"
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tantek a user has multiple machines, so the user assumes that the service will work the same on them all
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tantek not that one is "special"
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: at http://2016.indieweb.org/#travel-assistance in FF I see "If you are a member of a group that is typically underrepresented (e.g. if you are hetero, white, cis and male)" Note that the "not" before "hetero" does not show in the browser!
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miklb sorry, I disagree. I don't follow the ignorance is bliss model. Also, it's an opt-in service.
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Loqi IndieWeb Summit
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KartikPrabhu ^that is a serious mistake I can trace it back to the font-family. Disabling the font-family CSS declaration seems to fix it
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tantek KartikPrabhu: perhaps you have some error with the <b> tag? user-styles?
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tantek miklb - not ignorance is bliss. but rather "blaming the user is wrong"
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tantek re: opt-in, see how that's nonsense per the ToS tl;dr noted above.
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tantek also when Apple keeps prompting you to opt-in, it's not really opt-in but more like forced-upon
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KartikPrabhu tantek: checked. not user styles issues
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KartikPrabhu or plugins
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tantek KartikPrabhu: if you select across that text and view selection source what do you see?
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aaronpk wow that's a bizarre glitch
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KartikPrabhu selection get the "not"
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michel_v KartikPrabhu: could be that your computer is missing the bold version of the font
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tantek shouldn't matter
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tantek even if the font is missing, it should fallback and still render *something*
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aaronpk strange that it falls back to DISAPPEARING
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michel_v use the web inspector to turn some more text to bold using the same tags/styles used for "not"
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michel_v see if they disappear
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KartikPrabhu michel_v: tantek: yeah bold version should fall back
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I presume this is FF?
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KartikPrabhu yes
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tantek if so, can you narrow it down? that's a pretty bad bug
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aaronpk it should fall back to either a font-weight that it does support, or just normal or something.. that's bad
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michel_v indeed, it *should* fall back. looks like a glitch though
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tantek (as in can you make this a short file)
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KartikPrabhu FF 46.0 on ubuntu 15.10 to be precise
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tantek Thanks KartikPrabhu
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aaronpk i'll remove the <b> tag for now
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: maybe use <strong> ?
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tantek KartikPrabhu: or <em> is I think what you meant
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tantek er, aaronpk
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KartikPrabhu i meant <strong> since it deafults to bold
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tantek KartikPrabhu: do you have time to file the bug on bugzilla.mozilla.org?
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aaronpk <strong> will have the same problem cause the css sets the font-weight on <b> and <strong>
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KartikPrabhu not at the moment; i should have been asleep 2 hours ago!
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tantek ok go to sleep :)
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aaronpk FF on osx doesn't have this problem fwiw
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tantek indeed :)
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KartikPrabhu weird! even <strong> and <em> don't work
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KartikPrabhu trying FF readability
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tantek KartikPrabhu: if you're interested in help narrowing it down and filing the bug, I can help after you've slept
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KartikPrabhu tantek: ok tomorrow then; for now removing any tags around the "not" works
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tantek ok
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tantek seriously wants to get update/delete UI working to be able to pass the rest of the webmention rocks tests
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[kevinmarks] I've had odd font things in ff Linux too - when I did the TeX vs html post
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tantek is making it harder on himself by combining "delete" in the UI with "delete POSSE copies" as well.
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aaronpk looks like it's actually a pretty serious bug. the font even imports the 700 weight explicitly.
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[kevinmarks] Reading scrollback
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aaronpk this is the font css it loads https://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Lato:400,700,400italic,700italic&subset=latin
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tantek KevinMarks: since you have plenty of background / experience, please review /Apple_Music and the articles cited therein. Sounds like potentially some pretty nasty data loss going on.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: btw no issues on FF 46.0.1 on Android phone
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tantek KartikPrabhu: ok good to know.
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[kevinmarks] I had Hoefler text declared, it found a caps only Hoefler display font on ff Linux
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KartikPrabhu alright later then... guten nacht
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aaronpk it might be a system issue, not a browser issue
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[kevinmarks] Yes, I think the font substitution is too eager to match
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: feel free to leave things for me to check... will look up in the morning
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michel_v could it be something worth reporting to the google font people?
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michel_v while the FF bug is not resolved, that bug could have a workaround
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[kevinmarks] I have been trying to follow the Apple thing, but I don't have direct experience to test as I stopped trusting then with cloud when they wiped my iDisk
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tantek what is iDisk?
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Loqi iDisk was Apple's cloud disk silo, that also provided web hosting and WebDAV support https://indiewebcamp.com/iDisk
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tantek KevinMarks: did you blog about your personal iDisk loss? worth adding to /iDisk
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[kevinmarks] Their deep problem is internal siloing and secrecy, which combined with huge resources means crazy duplication of functionality in parallel and fighting to ship with teams you don't know exist
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[kevinmarks] http://epeus.blogspot.com/2013/04/hosting-and-impermanence.html
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[kevinmarks] http://epeus.blogspot.com/2006/04/apple-is-holding-my-data-hostage.html
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miklb lol, just realized I was basically called an Apple apologist for providing an alternate perspective
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[kevinmarks] If you want working Linux computers, that's Chromebook and android
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[kevinmarks] From what I'm reading, the Apple music sync thing was designed for people with multiple apple computers, an iPhone and an iPad
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[kevinmarks] If you only have one Mac, you may accidentally check the box that means "this is my disposable second mac, save me disk space" and have it wipe your archive
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aaronparecki.com edited /2016/Nuremberg/Schedule (+0) "/* Saturday April 16, 2016 */ fix room number" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] My music cloud recommendation, especially on Mac, is to use Google Play Music to backup your local library to Google servers. 50,000 files up to 300MB each
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[kevinmarks] Then you can stream them to any browser, cache them on iOS and android native apps, and redownload them if your iTunes library dies
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aaronpk i really should give google music a try
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[kevinmarks] The 300MB thing means that huge mixes like chillits or multi-hour recordings get saved
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aaronpk right now i just use spotify, but i do have some files on my server i'd like to be able to play easily
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aaronparecki.com created /2016/Düsseldorf/Schedule (+2194) "add schedule grid" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com created /2016/Dusseldorf/Schedule (+38) "r" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] The archiving thing is free. You can pay them $15/mo for major label streaming for your family of 5 too. Or $10/mo just for you
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[kevinmarks] As a bonus it removes ads from music on YouTube
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/godtributes/status/728517010305515521
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@godtributes @kevinmarks VINYLS FOR THE VINYL GOD! REFORMATTING FOR THE REFORMATTING THRONE (twitter.com/_/status/728517010305515521)
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aaronpk hey cool, my osbridge talk was accepted! \o/ http://opensourcebridge.org/proposals/1872
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aaronpk hm, it's kind of inconvenient to have to make another request to the micropub endpoint to find the media endpoint
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aaronpk tho I am already making a GET request to find the syndication endpoints... so it would be best if it included both pieces of information in the same request
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[kevinmarks] Your original trick of sending images as data urls is also inspired
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk it still does that if you don't provide a media endpoint
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aaronpk hm yes this works fine
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aaronpk and if I don't do anything special in my micropub endpoint, the posts created end up referencing the photos at the URL the media endpoint returned
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aaronpk i do want to have my micropub endpoint download the photo to the post's folder though
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[barryf] Morning. I'm working through updates to my software and wanted to clarify something about Micropub JSON requests.
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[barryf] Would the following be a valid request? https://gist.github.com/barryf/349475a28b6d157d564dd5ba4e533671
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aaronpk that looks right yes
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aaronpk what specifically are you wondering about?
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[barryf] Thanks aaronpk. I was wondering if I had the right syntax for updates to multiple properties.
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[barryf] I'm just at that stage now with my tests.
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aaronpk ah cool
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tantek what is Google Music?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Music" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Kv
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tantek what is Google Play Music
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Loqi Google play music is a music streaming service provided by Google https://indiewebcamp.com/Google_play_music
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tantek Google Music is [[Google Play Music]]
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loqi.me created /Google_Music (+30) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-06/line/1462534182340 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek aaronpk++ congrats on your osbridge talk getting accepted!
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Loqi aaronpk has 132 karma
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tantek.com edited /Events (+489) "/* June */ tweak dwnet desc, add aaronpk osbridge session" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk: buggy indie RSVP on 2016.indieweb.org? "no photo" and "permalink" just links to the page itself
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petermolnar heads up everyone: https://imagetragick.com/
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tantek petermolnar so two days ago ;)
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tantek just discovered something about Twitter and mixed private/public replies
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tantek if you reply *publicly* to a *private-reply* to a *public tweet*, your public reply-reply will NOT show up on the permalink for the original public tweet
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tantek however if you instead "skip" the private-reply, and instead publicly reply directly to the public tweet, then your public reply will show up on the permalink for the original public tweet
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tantek in essence, replying to a private reply *hides* your public reply from being displayed anywhere upstream of that private reply.
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Jeena that sound quite natural because then for everyone who is reading it and not seeing the private reply your public reply to it wouldn't make any sense
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loqi.me created /FreeBSD (+95) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by petermolnar" (view diff)
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tantek Jeena, very much depends on what you say in your public reply to the private reply
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@indiewebcamp RT @t: @jeffubois similarly for #decentralizedweb, come to https://t.co/Lk741FYrir; let’s update https://t.co/BtYsGlfLZN! (ttk.me t4h71) (twitter.com/_/status/728560929131073537)
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tantek like that ^^^ ;)
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tantek.com edited /iDisk (+490) "articles, see also" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /.Mac (+18) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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@indiewebcamp RT @aaronpk Registration for IndieWeb Summit is open! http://2016.indieweb.org Pretty thrilled to be doing this for the 6th year in PDX! (twitter.com/_/status/728566656356765696)
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GWG Morning
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GWG I have a Microformats parsing issue I hoped to get advice on this week
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GWG I
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GWG tried adding MF2 to WordPress Core in a test environment. Then tried a variety of themes to see how php-mf2 parsed them
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tantek GWG, good chance of such advice
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GWG The classic Microformats were parsed as well as the Microformats 2
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GWG I ended up on most themes with weird nesting
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tantek.com edited /WhatsApp (+481) "document outages in Brazil due to court order" (view diff)
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GWG WordPress indicated it is open to mf2 concurrent with mf1 markup
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tantek GWG - there may be php-mf2 bugs that are interfering with proper backcompat handling
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tantek e.g. if you add the mf2 classes on the same elements as the mf1 class names, the mf2 classes should overrie
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tantek yes, concurrent markup is possible
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GWG tantek, the problem is that I have to add them on different elements
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GWG Due to the implementation I am working with.
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GWG That is why I tabled it.
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GWG But last night I got WordPress patch happy and started trying to patch every ticket I had open.
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GWG The WordPress comment bug scrub is Monday and I thought I might be able to get some stuff in.
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@brennannovak @aaronpk @indiewebcamp very nice new registration site :) (twitter.com/_/status/728573803882778624)
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@Inkwater_Masha Make a mini-book from a single-sheet of paper—oh the #marketing opportunities! http://www.fimp.net/makeabook.html?platform=hootsuite #indieauth #selfpub #author (twitter.com/_/status/728571367071830016)
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GWG I may have to explore this over IWC. I am going to lurk again
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tantek GWG I'm not sure adding mf1 vs mf2 root classes on different elements is a good idea. sounds like it could just make a bigger mess of things.
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GWG They won't move the classic elements because of backcompat and they don't like the idea of a flag to change them.
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tantek backcompat with what?
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@glennjones Made it to Düsseldorf, looking forward to a full weekend of @indiewebcamp chats and a little bit of building indie stuff. (twitter.com/_/status/728583806152785920)
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Loqi [indieweb] "1 &#8211; Use AWS Lambda to self-host the comments for your blog" by jarmitage https://jimpick.com/2016/05/05/introducing-lambda-comments/
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@HongPong by including #indieweb libraries in #Drupal8 (going to add wrappers with logging) then small modules can implement webmention & others (twitter.com/_/status/728588860679172096)
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@HongPong Building blocks of #indieweb for #Drupal8 starting here: https://www.drupal.org/project/microformats just baby steps yet, but will streamline for all Drupals :O (twitter.com/_/status/728588560723546112)
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@HongPong #drupal8 starting out: https://www.drupal.org/project/microformats includes mf2, mf-cleaner, mention-client in Composer. Logging soon @indiewebcamp @aaronpk (twitter.com/_/status/728588323732783105)
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@HongPong RT @aaronpk New @W3C Webmention draft! Minor clarifications + linked to the https://webmention.rocks/ test suite. https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/#changes-from-20-april-2016-wd-to-29-april-2016 #RoadToCR (twitter.com/_/status/728587915954114560)
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@HongPong RT @indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-04-29.html https://twitter.com/indiewebcamp/status/726159125579620352/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728587903186636800)
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@HongPong RT @aaronpk Registration for IndieWeb Summit is open! http://2016.indieweb.org Pretty thrilled to be doing this for the 6th year in PDX! (twitter.com/_/status/728587835264118784)
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unrelenting.technology edited /FreeBSD (+134) "add usage" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /WhatsApp (+1091) "expanding" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /WhatsApp (+237) "explaining popularity" (view diff)
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tommorris.org edited /WhatsApp (+375) "expanding some more" (view diff)
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tommorris WhatsApp is very interesting. What people don't get is that in plenty of places like Brazil, WhatsApp is far more like Twitter than it is like Skype or GTalk.
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tommorris aaronpk: any chance we could get HSTS on IWC wiki? I'm occasionally ending up on the plain HTTP version. HSTS would fix that. :-)
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aaronpk not until we solve the hotlinked image problem
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AndreasNebiker Phew... just resurrected my website from '08 added the necessary markup and filled in the info on the wiki. Now heading to the airport. See you tomorrow *excited*.
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jerbs_ Hey folks
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tommorris.org edited /Orkut (+418) "expanding" (view diff)
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tommorris hey jerbs_
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tommorris aaronpk: ah okay. could we just copy non-HTTPS hotlinked images over to the wiki with some kind of proxy? then just have a script that rescrapes them every week or so
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aaronpk the problem is there are hotlinked images all over the place
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tommorris (that sounds like a really handy MediaWiki extension that could be built.)
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aaronpk best way would be to have mediawiki handle it with an extension
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aaronpk i got half way done, but it doesn't do images inside templates or something, can't quite remmeber
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aaronpk i couldn't find the right mediawiki hooks
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tommorris basically, just need a template that you wrap the img url in. {{external image|http://example.org/foo.jpg}} and it then does a hash function on the URL, downloads the image from there, stores it at (hash url).[jpg|gif|png] and then periodically re-pings the site to see if the content has changed
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tommorris but that'd require writing PHP.
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aaronpk i already have most of that working
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aaronpk always using a template to wrap external images could solve it tho
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aaronpk but it'd be a looooot of wiki updates to replace all the existing ones
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aaronpk anyone want to help me with a css problem?
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aaronpk starting with this, https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/overlay.php I want the top 75% to be green, and the bottom 25% to be a scrolling window with the logs
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Loqi gives aaronpk the top
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aaronpk and I want window.scrollTo(0,document.body.scrollHeight); to be how "autoscroll" works
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petermolnar for the first part, this might help: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8119012/fluid-vertical-layout/8119260
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petermolnar for the autoscroll, I'm not certain
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aaronpk i had a layout using flexbox, but not sure how to mesh that with scrolling
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petermolnar flexbox is still a bit of black magic for me so no opinion on that
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@sl007 @glennjones @indiewebcamp That is awesome news! See you tomorrow. (twitter.com/_/status/728605243634814977)
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dym.cx edited /User:Dym.cx (+559) "+Indieweb Criticism" (view diff)
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aaronpk got something that kind of works!
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aaronpk there's a neat method .scrollIntoView()
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aaronpk anyway now i can greenscreen the IRC logs over the video stream
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[kevinmarks] https://jimpick.com/2016/05/05/introducing-lambda-comments/
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aaronpk test
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aaronpk test again
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KevinMarks you need to exclude the green bit from the scroll
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KevinMarks I di this before, let me find it
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KevinMarks http://www.kevinmarks.com/navscrollfixed.html
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] Fragmentions for poets 2014-04-23
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KevinMarks position:fixed made it work
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KevinMarks the common way to do an overlay is with a margin-top, but that messes up the scroll
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@nitot RT @aaronpk Registration for IndieWeb Summit is open! http://2016.indieweb.org Pretty thrilled to be doing this for the 6th year in PDX! (twitter.com/_/status/728626112872517636)
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@m_ott I'm in Düsseldorf for #IndieWebCamp and #btconf. Looking forward to inspiring talks and conversations. Say hello, if you are there too! (twitter.com/_/status/728624231018303488)
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aaronpk it looks like it works now. i used position:absolute and bottom:0 on the irc log section, and then put a blank div inside that section and use scrollIntoView() on it
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, got a notification on my phone that IWC was live streaming
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GWG !tell tantek People used hentry as a style element, so changing it is an issue
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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aaronpk hah! I was testing something
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aaronpk didn't realize that was going to send a notification...
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GWG Hi, aaronpk
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aaronpk hello
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tantek shaners ^^^ see above "used hentry as a style element, so changing it is an issue". This is why we don't style microformats classes directly any more, because it is literally blocking us from fixing WordPress microformats
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Loqi tantek: GWG left you a message 4 minutes ago: People used hentry as a style element, so changing it is an issue http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-06/line/1462555760547
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ben_thatmustbeme heh, that tell kinda failed
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veganstraightedge.com edited /Apple_Music (+613) "add my experience to Apple Music" (view diff)
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GWG Is there a retell?
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GWG !tell tantek People used hentry as a style element, so changing it is an issue
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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GWG Oh well
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[kevinmarks] Why put hentry and h-entry on different elements?
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GWG KevinMarks, WordPress puts hentry on everything by default
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GWG The alternative is to apply h-entry poorly
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[shaners] For those that missed it yesterday, we have IWC shirts for sale.
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[shaners] https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp
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aaronpk I hope 50 was not too high of a goal
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[benatwork] It’s a pretty high goal. When’s the deadline?
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[benatwork] 9 days
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bear oh - you added another style that goes to 5x!
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bear doh! it shows 5X but it won't let me select 5X
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[benatwork] (I think I sold around 15--20 “my url is” shirts in the end)
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@andymcmillan @Wordridden Hi Jessica! Visiting the West Coast any time soon? I saw the IndieWeb Summit announcement and figured you might be coming out? (twitter.com/_/status/728652281109876736)
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aaronpk I wanted the shirts to be cheaper so I set the goal to 50 to drop the price
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aaronpk bear: that's weird that it won't let you choose it! Maybe ask their chat support?
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[shaners] I bet (hope) we’ll get a bump of sales from the Dusseldorf folks this weekend.
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[kevinmarks] my "I <? PHP" shirts didn't meet the threshold
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! http://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-05-06.html I'll generate it again in an hour and it will be sent out at 2pm.
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@eay Morgen geht’s zum @IndieWebCamp nach Düsseldorf! Ich weiß schon, dass @fredericmarx dabei ist. Sonst noch wer aus der hiesigen Gefolgschaft? (twitter.com/_/status/728665773921685505)
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bear aaronpk - I don't see any support options (logged in or out)
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bear I ordered a 4x, if we can figure out the 5x glitch i'll order another
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[shaners] aaronpk loqi: I don’t see HWC LA in the newsletter.
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[shaners] http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-05-11-homebrew-website-club
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aaronpk Is it on /events?
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aaronpk what is this week?
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Loqi This Week in the IndieWeb is a weekly digest of activities of the IndieWebCamp community https://indiewebcamp.com/this-week
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aaronpk moreninfo on how it works there
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bear emailed them about the size selection glitch
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@jkphl Cassette galore w/ @iwontsignuphere & @t #btconf #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/jkphl/status/728670573954531330/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728670573954531330)
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Loqi [indieweb] "B0RG on "[Plugin: IndieWeb] Might be helpful to add at least some description"" by B0RG https://wordpress.org/support/topic/might-be-helpful-to-add-at-least-some-description#post-8372999
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@cascadarama I'm going to be in Portland for the IndieWeb Summit from June 3-5. I'd love to hang out! http://2016.indieweb.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/728675185616769024)
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@nebu Just landed in Düsseldorf for insights, code and smiles at #btconf and #indiewebcamp . Probably for Japanese food, too ;) See you there! (twitter.com/_/status/728674300673331200)
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@kevinmarks RT @aaronpk Just launched @indiewebcamp t-shirts! Order now to arrive before Summit 2016! https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/728673667471708160)
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[benatwork] Suggestion, aaronpk: create a new combined IWC ticket that comes with a T-shirt, has an appropriately higher ticket price, and expires in 9 days? That way people can pick them up at the event and the Teespring gets a push
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aaronpk Good idea
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Loqi [indieweb] "B0RG sur « [embrochable : IndieWeb] pourrait être utile d'ajouter au moins une certaine description »" by B0RG http://www.systranet.com/turl/?systrangui=rss&systranuid=aHR0cHMtd29yZHByZXNzLm9yZy9zdXBwb3J0L3RvcGljL21pZ2h0LWJlLWhlbHBmdWwtdG8tYWRkLWF0LWxlYXN0LXNvbWUtZGVzY3JpcHRpb24vZW5fZnI%3D#post-8372999
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aaronpk I can also email all the registrations so far and link them to the shirt
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@adactio Pre-IndieWebCamp beers in Düsseldorf. https://twitter.com/adactio/status/728678145075875840/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728678145075875840)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Just launched @indiewebcamp t-shirts! Order now to arrive before Summit 2016! https://teespring.com/indiewebcamp" https://aaronparecki.com/2016/05/05/10/indiewebcamp
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aaronpk Hope that makes it into the newsletter
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 2pm. http://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-05-06.html
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aaronpk I should make the newsletter pull in photos from the indienews posts
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 2pm. http://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-05-06.html
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Loqi agreed.
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Loqi [indienews] New post: "Homebrew Website Club SF 2016-05-04" http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2016-05-04.html
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[shaners] aaronpk: My bad. I thought it was pulled from /hwc etc
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[shaners] I’ll update /events real quick
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[shaners] Though, not very DRY. :wink:
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KevinMarks are my iiw notes indienewsworthy
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/kitt/status/728655582811455488
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@kitt “I finally fixed my React issues.” “Yeah? How?” “I used jQuery.” (twitter.com/_/status/728655582811455488)
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/728675412637683712
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@kevinmarks @kitt @SaraSoueidan it's "now you have 2 problems" all the way down (twitter.com/_/status/728675412637683712)
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aaronpk It's a challenge to keep things dry on the wiki
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veganstraightedge.com edited /Events (+725) "Add LA HWCs to /events" (view diff)
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 2pm. http://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-05-06.html
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aaronpk I've gotta teach Loqi how to do that
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Loqi is done
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aaronpk luckily I have tiny SSH on my phone
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[shaners] benwerd++ for tshirt + ticket idea
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Loqi benwerd has 113 karma
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@Cambridgeport90 RT @shanselman IndieWeb Summit 2016 is in Portland, Oregon June 3-5th! http://2016.indieweb.org/ #indiewebcamp @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/728687024409055232)
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@shanselman IndieWeb Summit 2016 is in Portland, Oregon June 3-5th! http://2016.indieweb.org/ #indiewebcamp @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/728686891122319360)
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@jkphl RT @adactio Pre-IndieWebCamp beers in Düsseldorf. https://twitter.com/adactio/status/728678145075875840/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728684667902296067)
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gregorlove.com edited /chatbot (+11) "dfn" (view diff)
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@eddie_31003 RT @shanselman IndieWeb Summit 2016 is in Portland, Oregon June 3-5th! http://2016.indieweb.org/ #indiewebcamp @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/728687225471270912)
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kylewm holy scott hanselman!
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kylewm I did not know he was in PDX
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Loqi [indieweb] "Shared a post by Scott Hanselman" https://kylewm.com/2016/05/repost-of-scott-hanselman-indieweb-summit-2016-is
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@jkphl RT @iwontsignuphere 💁 @t #btconf #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/iwontsignuphere/status/728697582701137921/video/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728697674623496194)
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@iwontsignuphere 💁 @t #btconf #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/iwontsignuphere/status/728697582701137921/video/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728697582701137921)
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@kylewmahan RT @shanselman IndieWeb Summit 2016 is in Portland, Oregon June 3-5th! http://2016.indieweb.org/ #indiewebcamp @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/728696231682138112)
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indiewebcamp.com/this-week/2016-05-06.html https://twitter.com/indiewebcamp/status/728695844048805888/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728695844048805888)
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bear A friendly reminder to folks about the ImageMagick exploit ... if you haven't upgraded your version by now you are most likely already owned -- exploits hit the internet within hours of that vulnerability being announced
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bear (yes, using scare phrasing on purpose, this one is really bad)
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aaronpk lots of details on the exploit now at https://imagetragick.com/
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bear the metasploit framework now has working exploits for it that can enable reverse ssh shells
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bear just from a single image
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aaronpk wow
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GWG I had better check my servers
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[benatwork] =:O
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aaronpk i can't think of anywhere i actually process user-provided images with imagemagick anymore
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bear if the package is installed I would still recommend adding the xml policy file for it
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aaronpk is that like a global system-level config?
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bear yes
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bear see the version listed in https://imagetragick.com/
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@justb3a it's not all about coding @t @iwontsignuphere (https://justonestep.de/notes/20160506-2206/) #btconf #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/justb3a/status/728708459353542658/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728708459353542658)
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[benatwork] is this dancing
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[benatwork] I demand dancing in Portland
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GWG Are you coming to Portland to see it?
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[benatwork] I’ll be in Portland, for sure
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GWG What type of dancing?
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GWG I've always wanted to try the Kasotski
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[benatwork] Whatever that dancing is linked above ^^^
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[benatwork] I’m imagining a huge simultaneous indieweb dance routine
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[benatwork] (But it’s probably a hold-in-place exercise, boooo)
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@iwontsignuphere RT @justb3a it's not all about coding @t @iwontsignuphere (https://justonestep.de/notes/20160506-2206/) #btconf #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/justb3a/status/728708459353542658/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728710778296119296)
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GWG My herniated disc won't let me do that
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gRegorLove Diving into tilde.town and tilde.club sites and their webrings: https://hotlinewebring.club/
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gRegorLove Interesting way to add yourself ""Choose a unique slug. If your website were http://gabebw.com, you might use gabebw. Using something based on your website is a good idea because it's likely to be unique. Add links on your website to https://hotlinewebring.club/YOUR-SLUG/next and https://hotlinewebring.club/YOUR-SLUG/previous"
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Loqi i'm goin to IndieWeb Summit, won't u?
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kylewm any of you all know Scott Hanselman and want to ask if he's coming? I will gladly if not
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@jkphl RT @justb3a it's not all about coding @t @iwontsignuphere (https://justonestep.de/notes/20160506-2206/) #btconf #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/justb3a/status/728708459353542658/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728713871792443393)
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gregorlove.com edited /webring (+147) "Examples" (view diff)
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gRegorLove kylewm: I don't
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kylewm I assume the answer to this is yes? https://twitter.com/shanselman/status/728727076631519232
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@shanselman @kylewmahan can I bring my kids for a bit? (twitter.com/_/status/728727076631519232)
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shanselman @kylewm Yes, been in Portland for 45 years ;)
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kylewm shanselman: oh awesome, I guess I'd assumed you'd be in seattle :)
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kylewm kids absolutely welcome, the youngest demoer I've seen was 7
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kylewm (but of course no obligation to demo if that's not their thing)
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[kevinmarks] https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/727515898525978625
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@ThePracticalDev I'm sorry I messed up your beautiful design by trying to put it to actual use. [photo] (twitter.com/_/status/727515898525978625)
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bear oh my, I'm going to use that one a *lot*
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[kevinmarks] Given the mess my hovercards are, apposite
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@indiewebcamp RT @justb3a it's not all about coding @t @iwontsignuphere (https://justonestep.de/notes/20160506-2206/) #btconf #indiewebcamp https://twitter.com/justb3a/status/728708459353542658/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728731220142600193)
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@indiewebcamp RT @adactio Pre-IndieWebCamp beers in Düsseldorf. https://twitter.com/adactio/status/728678145075875840/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/728730900150816770)
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@ssp2158 Test site for my indieweb checks (twitter.com/_/status/728529227138498561)
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shanselman @kylewm no I stay safely outside the Redmond Reality Distortion Field ;)
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kylewm probably wise!
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