#indiewebcamp 2016-04-30

2016-04-30 UTC
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tantek
(agreed with kylewm, if you can figure out a way to remove it, that would be great)
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tantek
kylewm, snarfed, any idea why none of the secondary (etc.) follow-ups to http://werd.io/2016/focus-simplify-kill-1 on Twitter made it into the Bridgy backfeed?
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Loqi
[Ben Werdmüller] Focus.
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tantek
snarfed, did you join because you were mentioned?
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snarfed
reads logs
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snarfed
tantek: usually something in https://brid.gy/about#missing
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gRegorLove
What is Microsoft Flow?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Microsoft Flow" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10KC
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tantek.com
edited /IFTTT (+364) "/* Alternatives */ hosted free vs paid, Microsoft Flow"
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tantek
Microsoft Flow is a free alternative to [[IFTTT]] at https://flow.microsoft.com/ for connecting apps and services with automation.
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loqi.me
created /Microsoft_Flow (+157) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-04-29/line/1461976241473 and dfn added by tantek"
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tantek.com
edited /Microsoft_Flow (+278) "articles, see also"
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gRegorLove
Is IFTTT only paid now?
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tantek
I don't know - haven't tried it recently
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miklb
no they still have a free tier
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gregorlove.com
edited /IFTTT (-11) "tweak dfn"
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gRegorLove
"free alternative to IFTTT" made me wonder
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miklb
as does zapier
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gregorlove.com
edited /IFTTT (+21) "/* See Also */ MS Flow"
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gRegorLove
What is Zapier?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Zapier" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10KD
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miklb
isn't good at wiki definitions.
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gRegorLove
May not need its own page. It's on /IFTTT
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gRegorLove
Could use that to start though
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gRegorLove
Delicious.com migration seems complete. Now back at http://del.icio.us
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gRegorLove
https not working yet, though.
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gRegorLove
Hey, remembered my delicious password on the first try!
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sknebel
oh wow, they came back from the dead?
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gRegorLove
Never officially died, afaik. Just lots of transitions.
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gRegorLove
I briefly documented them on /Delicious#History
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sknebel
yeah, but the last few days I thought that was it
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gRegorLove
Oh, no. They announced on the blog the "going back to their roots" thing, including the domain
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gRegorLove
Took a couple days
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gRegorLove
We'll see how long until the next acquisition, though :)
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Loqi
I don't know
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miklb
Pinboard has been trying to buy it for a while
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gRegorLove
Does Loqi respond to every 'how long' with IDK?
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gRegorLove
How long until next-hwc?
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tantek
when is next-hwc?
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Loqi
Homebrew Website Club Meetup is on 2016-05-04 at Steampunk Bar https://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc
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gRegorLove
Yeah, knew about that one. Just noticed Loqi saying IDK a lot and 'how long' seemed to be the common words.
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tantek
Wow there may be something worse than plumbing-first design: concept-first design, or worse, concept-first acronyms, e.g. CHEDDAR: https://twitter.com/lewisha/status/724998185609924608
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@lewisha
.@fatemehx2 Momentum & plans building at #IIW. Take a look at @dmarti #CHEDDAR framework. adios #bigdata @dsearls [photo]
(twitter.com/_/status/724998185609924608)
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tantek
KevinMarks: did you see this discussion at all ^^^ can you provide any context that would explain this in terms of a rational approach to technology and/or policy?
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[kevinmarks]
Yes, I tweeted notes, need to link them. There is a defining post
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tantek.com
created /The_Loqi (+303) "stub, dfn, see also"
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Loqi
Slide: 1 / of 2 .
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tantek
good ol' Klint!
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tantek.com
edited /js;dr (+200) "/* Related Articles */ I Turned Off JavaScript for a Whole Week and It Was Glorious"
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tantek
(totally missed the 1yr anniversary of js;dr)
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tantek
Interesting thing about that article are the "key" use-cases he lists offhand of things that didn't work: Netflix, YouTube, Google Docs, FB mobile.
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tantek
pretty sure my /video posts play without JS (they just use the video tag, browser controls, and an MP4 file)
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tantek
I wonder if anyone has even tried to build something even remotely similar to Google Docs that worked without JS. Closest I can think of is MediaWiki.
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tantek
are there any Micropub clients that work without JS?
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tantek
ok it's about trying to convince the ad industry to behave better purely with rhetoric?
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[kevinmarks]
It's a list of practices
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tantek
"practices" implies a framing of "existing" which I don't see links/citations to examples thereof, thus rhetoric
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tantek
if you haven't done something, it's not a practice yet, it's just a theory
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kylewm
tries woodwind without js
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kylewm
got a weird JSON response in the browser but was able to post
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kylewm
also notes that Bridgy Publish works gracefully without JS
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tantek
kylewm were you trying FF dev edition when you got the JSON response? ;)
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kylewm
indieauth.com does not work without js
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kylewm
Quill works great with no-js
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@indiewebcamp
RT @kylewmahan @benwerd Google rankings tend to love indieweb stuff. I bet we publish differently than they expect a typical site to
(twitter.com/_/status/726219344724656128)
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tantek
also interesting from that article: "Twitter worked, but it lacked the handy character counter, making it hard to know if a tweet was too long or not." which makes me wonder if there's an opportunity for a browser extension or possibly HTML spec addition to display character count for input fields, especially those with a maxlength or minlength attribute
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tantek
Also, "I could browse WIRED, but not view or leave comments." - do any IndieWeb CMSs allow leaving comments without JS? WordPress presumably does (guessing). Does Known? I'm assuming all the "send me a webmention" URL inputs work fine without JS.
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tantek
"The deal breaker was that turning off JavaScript broke a bunch of my favorite Google Chrome extensions. " - I wonder which Chrome extensions
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[kevinmarks]
I suspect noterlive won't work
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gRegorLove
My site's comments will work without JS
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tantek
gRegorLove: is that due to ProcessWire?
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gRegorLove
It's a custom setup, but I'm pretty sure the core ProcessWire Comments module will as well
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tantek
since /js;dr is documenting failures, I'd like to figure out the complementary positive framing so we can capture these good behaviors
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aaronpk
I'm surprised quill worked without JS actually. I just refactored it to use JS in order to support photo uploading with the preview
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aaronpk
maybe it fell back to a normal form post somehow
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aaronpk
but I build the category array in JS so that would come through as a comma separated string probly
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tantek
fascinating: http://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-f8-ten-year-roadmap-2016-4 - was anyone at F8 this year to see this in person?
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tantek.com
edited /Facebook (+173) "/* Articles */ Facebook just showed us its 10-year road map in one graphic"
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tantek
What's fascinating about this chart http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/570d2caa52bcd01a008bc210-997-419/screen%20shot%202016-04-12%20at%201.10.45%20pm.png is that it looks a lot like some of the future plans of Google 5-10 years ago (IIRC), except FB is already executing much better across the board on its "products" than Google has.
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tantek.com
edited /Facebook (+250) "/* Articles */ embed roadmap inline"
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tantek
which do people here feel like they keep in mind more when doing web development? Graceful Degradation or Progressive Enhancement? (see https://www.w3.org/wiki/Graceful_degradation_versus_progressive_enhancement and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement for clarification if you're not sure)
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tantek
Or door number 3: Unobtrusive Javascript: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtrusive_JavaScript
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aaronpk
For content based sites, progressive enhancement
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aaronpk
But not for apps
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tantek
clearly you did *something* for Quill
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aaronpk
Possibly unintentionally lol
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aaronpk
but that would be graceful degradation since I definitely prioritized JS for it
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tantek.com
edited /Events (+7) "move past events to recent, done with April 2016!"
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tantek
I'm pushing the limits of how much manual work I have to do to person-tag my photo posts.
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tantek
what kind of UI are folks using for person-tagging their photo posts? (besides PESOSing via ownyourgram :P )
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sknebel
what's the way to add attributes (e.g. dt-created, p-location) to a photo in a post? I'm sure I read something in the wiki, but I can't find it again
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sknebel
there doesn't seem to be a microformat specific to images, so put the image in a nested h-entry?
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tantek
sknebel: the photo isn't in the post, it's a /photo post
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tantek
what is a photo?
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Loqi
A photo is a post whose primary content is a photograph or other image, with an optional caption. With multiple photographs it becomes a multi-photo post https://indiewebcamp.com/photo
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tantek
where did you get dt-created from?
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sknebel
good question, probably meant published ;)
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sknebel
but that doesn't work for a post like "I was there one year ago"
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tantek
is that what you're posting?
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sknebel
Or if the image is an illustration, the place where it was taken might still be interesting
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sknebel
but is not the location of the post
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sknebel
the "1 year ago" scenario was what I was originally thinking about
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tantek
do you have some 1 year old photos that you're thinking about posting?
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sknebel
yes ;)
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tantek
what is a throwback
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Loqi
A throwback is a current post of content from some time ago, typically at least days, often years https://indiewebcamp.com/throwback
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tantek
one particular challenge that I'm finding with manual person-tagging is that some (most?) do not have their own site, and some do not have a Twitter username (which could be used for a simple text-entry of @-names), a few don't have FB either.
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snarfed
tantek++
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Loqi
tantek has 288 karma
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snarfed
span class="h-card" ?
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tantek
yeah that's the fallback, with just an implied name inside
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tantek
or rather span class="p-category h-card"
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tantek
instead of "u-category h-card"
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tantek
when there's nothing to link to
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tantek
though perhaps I can make a local person-tag page for them?
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GWG
Evening
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tantek
Evening
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tantek
hmm I've decided to always use u-category h-card
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GWG
I'm looking at Salmentions.
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tantek
for person-tags
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tantek
and then inside, even if I don't have an indieweb site for the person, I'm using <a class="p-name"> instead of span figuring it's less work to upgrade that to add u-url and an href
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tantek
GWG, have you done any implementing or designing of UI for person-tags?
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GWG
No. It is low on my list because I don't post pictures of other people often.
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tantek
is SWAT0 a priority for you?
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GWG
I'd be interested in getting WordPress able to participate.
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tantek
GWG do you know if there is any work in the WordPress community to add the concept of tagging people in photos to WordPress photo posts?
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GWG
Not that I've seen.
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GWG
But the work I'm doing right now wouldn't help on the interface side, but tagging support is limited in Semantic Linkback. It recognizes the relationship, but not much more.
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tantek
there is an aspect of tagging that is related to Semantic Linkback as it were
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tantek
that is /tag-of posts
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tantek
I should say, /tag-of responses in particular
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Loqi
agreed.
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GWG
I'm trying to figure out how to make it easier to extend that.
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@oemb1905
@BitMinter help - been using Yahoo OpenID but now have own thru IndieAuth delegation and or thru StackExchng - want to keep user name w/new
(twitter.com/_/status/726304756163993600)
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[kevinmarks]
I had that person tagging problem at iiw
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[kevinmarks]
With noterlive - I didn't have urls or even full names for people speaking
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mlsrv.de
edited /2016/Düsseldorf/Guest_List (+251) "/* Participants */"
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mlsrv.de
edited /2016/Düsseldorf/Guest_List (-7) "/* Participants */"
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@RikMende
Hello @Plag_Network @eliaszudin would be really interesting to implement some #indieweb in Plag, what do you think ?
(twitter.com/_/status/726390428350713856)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "@eliaszudin for me #indieweb is just the "original web" before corporate silo's like fb,tw privatized the ability to make information viral (but you know already" by Rick Mendes http://www.rmendes.net/2016/eliaszudin-for-me-indieweb-is-just-the-original-web-before
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@RikMende
@eliaszudin for me #indieweb is just the "original web" before corporate silo's like fb,tw privatized the ability… https://www.rmendes.net/2016/eliaszudin-for-me-indieweb-is-just-the-original-web-before
(twitter.com/_/status/726418841023062016)
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kylewm
"IG is blocking our scraping"
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kylewm.com
edited /User:Kylewm.com (+160) "Offload media to separate services"
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snarfed
instagram is now blocking bridgy's scraping :/
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snarfed
(technically 429ing, but we're so low volume that i'm calling it blocking)
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kylewm
snarfed: so is that game over? :(
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snarfed
not yet, but it's definitely downhill
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kylewm
small silver lining, maybe we'll get off our butts and use mobilepub or write another client to micropub photos
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kylewm
!tell tantek JSON viewer in Firefox Developer edition looks really nice, but the "items" entry is empty here http://mf2.kylewm.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Facegiak.net&parser=html5lib
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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vanderven.se martijn
edited /2016/Düsseldorf/Guest_List (+224) "/* Participants */ Adding myself after finally booking the trip."
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ben_thatmustbeme
with my reaction emoji i'm not tempted to map emoji to actual images
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ben_thatmustbeme
so its consistant view across devices
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ben_thatmustbeme
also, getting some strangeness of two different heart emoji
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think thats because i convert likes to hearts as well
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KevinMarks
well, that's tricky - it depends what device they sent it from
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Loqi
[Ben Roberts] Thanks to an update of brid.gy, now reactions on FB get backfed to my site as well. YAY!
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ben_thatmustbeme
KevinMarks: thats a good point actually
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ben_thatmustbeme
that gets even messier
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KevinMarks
the 'apple made grin look like grimace' problem
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KevinMarks
and the '2 dancing girls vs 1 with bunny ears' one
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vanderven.se martijn
edited /IRC_People (+0) "/* Nicknames */ Zegnat: Stockholm → Amsterdam. I migrated."
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Loqi
[indieweb] "Belated notes from a couple of sessions at #iiw Wednesday - Power Asymmetry and Cheddar: http://www.kevinmarks.com/iiw2016-04-27.html #indieweb" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/belated-notes-from-a-couple-of-sessions-at-iiw-wednesday
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@IMJACKTG
RT @kevinmarks Belated notes from a couple of sessions at #iiw Wednesday - Power Asymmetry and Cheddar: http://www.kevinmarks.com/iiw2016-04-27.html #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/726466954245070848)
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@kevinmarks
Belated notes from a couple of sessions at #iiw Wednesday - Power Asymmetry and Cheddar: http://www.kevinmarks.com/iiw2016-04-27.html #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/726465800836513792)
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aaronpk
wow instagram
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aaronpk
not a good sign for ownyourgram
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Loqi
Why specs matter
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aaronpk
considering alternate options for getting photos out of instagram
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aaronpk
for example, you can syndicate a photo in the instagram app to your tumblr or flickr account, and I could pull it from there
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KevinMarks
I wonder when pestagram will die
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kylewm
aaronpk++ the tumblr path seems promising
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Loqi
aaronpk has 125 karma
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aaronpk
bah posting to tumblr loses the location
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aaronpk
turns it into a string of text "Coffee time #philz (at Philz Coffee)"
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aaronpk
the hashtag came through tho
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aaronpk
also lost the person tag
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aaronpk
time to test flickr
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aaronpk
also lost the location and person tag posting to flickr
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KevinMarks
if you post to foursqure, does that keep location?
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KevinMarks
this is going to end up with 'cross-post to facebook' isn't it?
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aaronpk
it must, but i don't always want to post to foursquare
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aaronpk
oh let me try with a different account. i'd be okay losing the ability to post to my main foursquare account
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aaronpk
well that's odd, it looks like it didn't actually push it to foursquare
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aaronpk
that's kind of a bummer. foursquare even encourages you to use their push API instead of polling
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aaronpk
instagram--
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Loqi
instagram has -1 karma
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aaronpk
actually it's probably facebook's fault
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aaronpk
facebook--
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Loqi
facebook has -14 karma
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Zegnat
Hmm, the ICS file that comes with the IWC Düsseldorf ticket is wrong
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aaronpk
what's wrong?
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Zegnat
The ICS is for Beyond Tellerand
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Zegnat
9-11 March
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Zegnat
But IWC is 7-8 May
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aaronpk
hm, well IWC Düsseldorf is part of Beyond Tellerrand. I bet ti.to is confused because of the linked events
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Zegnat
Yes, I thought that too, it was just a bit weird because the IWC comes with the “ticket” for IWC 7-8
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Zegnat
Stressed a little when the event fell outside of my travel times on my calendar ;)
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aaronpk
strange
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@nobantu
RT @kevinmarks Belated notes from a couple of sessions at #iiw Wednesday - Power Asymmetry and Cheddar: http://www.kevinmarks.com/iiw2016-04-27.html #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/726511967691636736)
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snarfed1
woo. with new user agent and reduced polling freq (only every 2h max per user), bridgy instagram is working again
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snarfed
not sure which one did the trick. we'll see.
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KevinMarks
do you still have a webhook?
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snarfed
KevinMarks: are you talking to me? i don't follow
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aaronparecki.com
edited /database-antipattern (+577) "add quotes from amy's recent experience"
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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kylewm
snarfed: any chance it was just a temporary glitch on their side, and the UA/polling changes are unrelated?
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snarfed
kylewm: sure, a chance
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kylewm
you think that's unlikely though?
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snarfed
probably yes
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snarfed
but not sure
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snarfed
ugh. twitter char counting (for replacing entities w/indices) uses fully normalized (combined) unicode, but python doesn't
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snarfed
soooo doesn't want to deal with this
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snarfed
grudgingly reads the unicodedata module docs
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@invispide
RT @kevinmarks Belated notes from a couple of sessions at #iiw Wednesday - Power Asymmetry and Cheddar: http://www.kevinmarks.com/iiw2016-04-27.html #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/726532784316121088)
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@domenicoperri
RT @kevinmarks Belated notes from a couple of sessions at #iiw Wednesday - Power Asymmetry and Cheddar: http://www.kevinmarks.com/iiw2016-04-27.html #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/726532784278388737)
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[kevinmarks]
Wow, instagram now passes crappy geodata to foursquare
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[kevinmarks]
I pick the venue, but it checks in as the city
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aaronpk
Instagram and Moves switched to the Facebook places DB and it's awful now