#indiewebcamp 2016-03-28

2016-03-28 UTC
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@Ross
RT @kevinmarks @Joi @Ross @ev currently @Medium export is broken (breaks links) and there is no read API, only a write one: http://indiewebcamp.com/medium#Exporting_your_data
(twitter.com/_/status/714284559865524224)
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Tino
kylewm, thanks. I didn't look in the issues list for Bridgy, how foolish :)
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Loqi
Tino: KevinMarks left you a message 10 hours, 36 minutes ago: Known Convoy supports Google+ pages: https://withknown.com/convoy/ http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-27/line/1459115668960
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Tino
!tell KevinMarks I do not think Convoy does. I'm a convoy subscriber and it does not list Google+ in any way. That's besides the point though, I can syndicate to Google+ Pages now via the Buffer syndication plugin for known and Buffer setup to post to my Google+ page. It actually formats nicely. I'm now trying to get a backfeed working, which isn't possible at the moment. That sort of kills it for me. Then I rather manually paste a
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Tino
link on my own profile page there and have bridgy backfeed the comments.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@botminik
Holy fuck, it looks like Twitter broke IndieAuth be putting a short url into the night is out of question?
(twitter.com/_/status/714400893068816384)
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tantek.com
edited /W3C (+299) "2013 Workshop on Social Standards"
(view diff)
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loqi.me
created /Workshop_on_Social_Standards (+24) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek"
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gRegorLove
Surprised instagram doesn't have an upload-from-desktop feature.
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aaronpk
i'm not
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aaronpk
easier to limit the amount of junk that gets uploaded by forcing you to upload from a phone
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voxpelli
noticed that Instagram had added a couple of new desktop/web features recently though
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voxpelli
but agree that they likely won't support photo uploading, but nowadays they are almost supporting everything else
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tantek
aaronpk: one workaround for that "limit amount of junk" problem is to make it a feature that you "unlock" by earning enough "points"
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tantek
or just from being around long enough
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tantek
(like years)
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aaronpk
that's true
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aaronpk
i suspect the other reason is they'd want to offer a somewhat consistent experience when uploading from a computer, but it'd be non-trivial to replicate the image editing features solely in a browser
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kylewm
my guess is that it's a very intentional choice to make the default behavior "post a quick shot of what's going on right now" rather than "take a reel of photos, painstakingly edit them after you vacation, and upload the whole batch"
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tantek
aaronpk: indeed. Flickr uploadr has been a constant support challenge - they switched desktop uploadr to Pro-only recently.
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voxpelli
editing wise one can do some pretty impressive things with Canvas today
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kylewm
imho, that's the big difference between instagram and flickr
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tantek
voxpelli: do you have a link to a good Canvas-based photo editor?
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voxpelli
tantek: looked at eg. http://evanw.github.io/webgl-filter/ right now
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aaronpk
tantek: i hadn't thought about that but you're probably right that the main reason for the switch was to reduce support costs from non-paying users
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tantek
kylewm: funny, even "Insta"gram feels too much like it interrupts the moment to me.
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tantek
it's not "instant" enough
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tantek
no one has come close to the eye-fi-like experience.
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tantek
I kind of want something like eye-fi + swarm
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kylewm
tantek: yeah totally agree
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aaronpk
i'm still so sad that eye-fi is disabling their flickr uploading
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gRegorLove
kylewm: Yeah, but how else am I supposed to share my new beautiful mug with IG? :)
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tantek
aaronpk: get eye-fi to support Micropub ;)
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aaronpk
i doubt they would, since they're disabling all non-cloud forms of uploading
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aaronpk
forcing you to use their subscription service
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tantek
perhaps ask them to do cloud->micropub
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tantek
that might actually be worth paying for
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aaronpk
hmm interesting
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gregorlove.com
edited /IRC_People (+22) "/* Nicknames */ new photo"
(view diff)
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tantek
notices gRegorLove answers his own rhetorical :) question
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KevinMarks
on android, you can upload to google photos automatically, and instagram sees the google photos feed on th ephone
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Loqi
KevinMarks: Tino left you a message 8 hours, 33 minutes ago: I do not think Convoy does. I'm a convoy subscriber and it does not list Google+ in any way. That's besides the point though, I can syndicate to Google+ Pages now via the Buffer syndication plugin for known and Buffer setup to post to my Google+ page. It actually formats nicely. I'm now trying to get a backfeed working, which isn't possible at the moment. That sort of kills it for me. Then I rather manually paste a http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-28/line/1459154063845
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tantek
KevinMarks: what do you mean by "instagram sees the google photos feed"?!?
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tantek
AFAIK IG has no way to subscribe/follow non-IG sources of photos
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aaronpk
i assume it sees the photos on the phone, but the phone is syncing with google photos
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tantek
ah ok.
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KevinMarks
if I upload to google photos from the desktop, the OS presents that as the 'already taken photos' feed
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KevinMarks
there's probably an iCloud way to do that too
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tantek
just noticing that there's no way to pin a post to the top of your profile/timeline on FB. somehow thought that was supported
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gRegorLove
Nice, I'll try taht
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tantek
maybe only for Groups and Events
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tantek
what is a pinned post?
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Loqi
pin or pinning is a feature that allows the author to choose a post to put at the top of their profile (or homepage) which is then called a pinned or sticky post https://indiewebcamp.com/pinned_post
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KevinMarks
I think its for pages, not for personal
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kylewm
we could ask a wedding photographer (how to upload from desktop), they all seemed to have figured it out
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tantek.com
edited /pin (+198) "/* Facebook */ Noticeably absent - your own timeline"
(view diff)
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tantek
KevinMarks - no, the feature is for your own stream in general. E.g. WordPress has supported it for a while. Twitter supports it
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tantek
FB is just inconsistent
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tantek
also I can pin posts at the top of Events
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tantek
(in FB)
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tantek
does anyone support pinned posts on their own site?
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KevinMarks
Well, I suppose I could as I edit my homepage directly
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tantek
ah, you edit your home-page h-feed directly / by hand right? it's not auto-generated at all?
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tantek
a pinned post presents an interesting storage challenge
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KevinMarks
yes, because I don't pst often enough
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tantek
(assuming you want it to automatically show-up just at the top of your stream, rather than look like its own section above that)
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KevinMarks
this is a really bad way to defend against genius: https://github.com/vijithassar/genius-defender
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tantek
is noticing that person-tagging is slowing down his photo posting
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kylewm
yes, that is a cut off your nose to spite your face solution
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KevinMarks
I'll just run an O(n^2) process over my post that expands it by a factor of 10 in length (yes gzip will help) that can be reversed with a O(n) regex
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gRegorLove
How do I change my profile photo in Instagram Android? It's not under "Edit your profile"
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KevinMarks
click the photo in the top left next to 'edit your profile'
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voxpelli
tantek: need facial-recognition built into a nickname cache perhaps? ;)
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@igrigorik
sketch proposal for "Sandbox Policy": https://discourse.wicg.io/t/proposal-sandbox-policy/1414 - chime in with your thoughts and comments on WICG. [photo]
(twitter.com/_/status/714496759032971264)
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gRegorLove
Tapping my photo doesn't do anything.
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gRegorLove
Maybe I've used it so infrequently they locked me out of that? Heh
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gRegorLove
I can do it on the web, not the app. Interesting.
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snarfed
kylewm++ for adding indieauth to oauth-dropins btw! https://oauth-dropins.appspot.com/
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Loqi
kylewm has 312 karma
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snarfed
required for porting bridgy instagram to scraping, so that IG users can log in and prove they own an account without the API
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kylewm
oh thanks snarfed! It'd appreciate if a few folks tested it
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voxpelli
kylewm: worked: "Authenticated http://kodfabrik.se/ on IndieAuth." :)
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Loqi
Pelle Wessman
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aaronpk
worked for me!
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kylewm
thanks yall
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KevinMarks
“Mr. Whaley told the Observer in a recent phone conversation that he finds the way humans reason to be fundamentally flawed, but that advances in how we organize information could help rectify that”
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kylewm
#patronizing
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emceeaich
headdesks
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emceeaich
stop writing things that you can't opt out of, why do people keep doing that?
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emceeaich
I wonder if that could be blocked through robots.txt
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KevinMarks
no, they don't check it
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tantek
the centralized annotation service apologists really don't get that all technology has a cultural context whether they want it to or not do they?
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tantek
in particular I'm quite disappointed with Dan Whaley, I expected more from him
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tantek
this in particular is disappointingly tonedeaf: ""Because you're speaking publicly, people are going to talk about it, on twitter, on facebook, on reddit... and with annotation. There's nothing different about annotation except that it 'magically' brings the things people say over top of your content."
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aaronpk
"nothing different except"? heh
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tantek
wow, seriously?!? "nothing different" ... ***on top of your content*** WTF?!?!?
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aaronpk
on top of your content is like the definition of different
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tantek
if that's not bullying from a point of privilege I don't know what is
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tantek
literally **on top** of **your**, like a metaphorical bully sitting on you
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tantek
very very disappointed
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KevinMarks
also Genius seems to be socially engineered to attract know-it-all dicks
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KevinMarks
they call their karma 'IQ points'
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tantek
(nevermind non-ironic self-comparison to the cesspools of Twitter @-replies and Reddit comments)
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tantek
this: “Currently, there isn’t even a means for Genius users to report abusive annotations, and there is certainly no way for creators to do so,” Ms. Dawson wrote in an email to the Observer. “The lack of a report function is a huge red flag.”
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tantek
hah! I had not seen https://xkcd.com/635/ before :)
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KevinMarks
so many warbloggers thought they were Peter
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petermolnar
who, me? /me Loqi-ing
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Loqi
who, me?
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Zegnat
At the end of the day, I do kinda like annotations-for-comments as a style. Much like how Medium is using it. I also get why it would be cool to use it on any site you come across.
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KevinMarks
yes, I do too - that's why I'm excited about fragmentions as a tool for it
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KevinMarks
but there is a huge social consequences problem here
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tantek
Zegnat - yes, it is cool, so see /marginalia for how to do it on your own site
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tantek
which is the right way to do it - own your annotations
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tantek
send webmentions to the original, and if they choose to display them (like KartikPrabhu does), then they'll show up
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tantek
all the permissions / controls are exactly in the right place with marginalia / webmentions / fragmentions design
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KevinMarks
though a plugin that displayed them while browsing, as hypothesis and genius do could be intersting
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KevinMarks
but it would need a model for whose annotations you see, which we don't have a good answer to yet
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tantek
no one has an answer to that
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tantek
so instead of starting with a solution looking for a problem, makes more sense to build what can/does actually work and evolve from there
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tantek
"need a model for ... which we don't have a good answer to yet" is a good sign of something to park / ignore
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Zegnat
You could also argue that it is a sign it needs more work, and the people at hypothesis and genius are working on it in their own way
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tantek
"you could also argue" = weasel wording
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tantek
"working on it in their own way" -> by defending tonedeaf UX and harrasment? makes no sense.
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Zegnat
alright, let me rephrase
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tantek
they started from a bad starting point, that's the problem
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Zegnat
"need a model for ... which we don't have a good answer to yet" is a good sign someone should look for the answer. They are trying out one possible answer over at Genius and Hypothesis
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KevinMarks
what I meant was that is an an example of the 'follow' problem, which we haven't hit at scale yet
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tantek
technology-centric vision, instead of human-centric
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KevinMarks
if tantek works out how to filter his bridgy-sent @t mentions…
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Zegnat
Well, I do not disagree with you there, tantek. I still think they are giving an interesting problem a fair shot, and would commend them for that
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voxpelli
I wonder what happened with Instapaper's fragmention support, can't seem to find it now
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KevinMarks
they made it a paid feature, which was a bit daft
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voxpelli
I do pay for it + use it on iOS to create the links posts on my site :) Can't see any fragmention-stuff in it though, however I could probably create my own linbks
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voxpelli
would be interesting to play around with webmentions, fragmentions and webaction to replicate inline comments
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snarfed
voxpelli: KartikPrabhu et al have worked on that
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gRegorLove
The "discussion" thread on Genius about that whole topic is also largely a trash fire.
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voxpelli
snarfed: hmm, yeah, he has some pretty good presentation there as well I see, thinking of whether I could add it as an option to my endpoint
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KevinMarks
ooh, that would mean I get them by default :D
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[shaners]
Did anyone share this URL to a video chat between Joi Ito and Ev Williams about Medium and the open web?
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Loqi
Talking about Medium and the Open Web with Evan Williams »
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Loqi
[shaners]: tantek left you a message on 3/25 at 6:18pm: the microformat page on Wikipedia could certainly use a re-write but I'm not the person for it, being primary editor of all the new stuff and all. See: WP:NPOV http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-25/line/1458955116441
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KevinMarks
I did and responded
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KartikPrabhu
voxpelli: here is the post you might want to look at: https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/marginalia
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Loqi
[Kartik Prabhu] Marginalia
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voxpelli
KartikPrabhu: thanks!
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@ManMadeMoon
Thing that appeals to me about OR is hope someone will make a Twitter Ap that feels like @GreatDismal's cyberspace. https://twitter.com/cnet/status/714245651429769216
(twitter.com/_/status/714265110395490304)
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tantek
OR = VR?
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KevinMarks
Oculus Rift
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@kevinmarks
@ManMadeMoon @GreatDismal @CNET @oculus the simstim part, the sites wrapped in ice, or the ability to make you flatline?
(twitter.com/_/status/714287641739419649)
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@kevinmarks
@ManMadeMoon @GreatDismal now the ice you need to break through is the endless shitposts and joke explainers encrusting the good tweets
(twitter.com/_/status/714289817777930241)
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KevinMarks
no, it's terrible
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KevinMarks
did you look at the code?
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KevinMarks
note he's not running it on his won site
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voxpelli
feels like the js-based genius blockers talked about the other day are a better alternative?
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gRegorLove
I hadn't yet; was just reading/sharing
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tantek
KevinMarks, gRegorLove perhaps that duplicate sharing is a good indication that you should add that to /News_Genius somewhere and document its problems
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kevinmarks.com
edited /News_Genius (+459) "/* Blocking */"
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /News_Genius (+387) "Articles / See also"
(view diff)
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kevinmarks.com
edited /News_Genius (+165) "/* Articles */"
(view diff)
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tommorris
site-deaths are always bad, but Bitcoin site-deaths are hilarious because everyone loses their money too.
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tantek
presumably the site-owner walks away with it though
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KevinMarks
no, most of the time it is stolen by other hackers
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tommorris
"time to be your own bank" is Bitcoin speak for "it's been an incredible journey!"
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tommorris
at least the transfer process is pretty easy.
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tommorris.org
edited /site-deaths (+266) "adding Coinkite"
(view diff)
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@jgmac1106
@benwerd Seeing all the stuff @Joi has been posting to Medium about Open source and #indieweb maybe thats the place to go.
(twitter.com/_/status/714537970381008896)
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gRegorLove
KevinMarks: Have you mentioned your JS to that developer / the journalist already? I was about to, unless you don't want me to.
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gRegorLove
KevinMarks: nvm, I see you did.
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snarfed
switched https://granary-demo.appspot.com/ to scrape instagram instead of using the (soon-to-be-dead) API
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snarfed
feel free to try it!
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tantek
snarfed: when someone switches from IG-only to also or first publishing on their own site, do you unsub from their IG via granary?
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snarfed
tries to parse the question
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tantek
(e.g. I'm wondering if it matters to anyone that my IG is private and I'm assuming granary doesn't read private IGs)
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snarfed
oh, me personally, my reading habits
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tantek
yes, you personally and wondering in general
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snarfed
eh i don't personally have a good answer. i definitely get dupes in my reader of people's posts across their own site and silos
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tantek
I'm wondering if we can come up with a way to indicate a "change of address" as it were
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tantek
like is there some way to indicate (e.g. plain text phrase in "bio" field) on a silo profile that the reader should get updates from another URL instead
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snarfed
(just for the logs, for getting IG and other silos in your feed reader, i recommend https://instagram-atom.appspot.com/ and friends. granary is mainly aimed at developers.)
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tantek
got it
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snarfed
tantek: yes! i've seen that kind of phrase in a few bios here and there
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snarfed
nothing standard though afaik
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tantek
I'm wondering if we could develop something that readers could implement to automatically switch subs
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snarfed
huh, maybe. i think so few people actually read silos in their readers though - ie i haven't marketed the *-atom apps very hard - that it's not worth figuring that out
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tantek
it's the perfect to figure it out because it affects (would surprise) so few people!
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tantek
s/perfect/perfect time
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: it's the perfect time to figure it out because it affects (would surprise) so few people!
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snarfed
maybe!
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tantek
like straw proposal: Posts here come from my site tantek.com
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tantek
(as I have on my FB profile)
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tantek
though I'd prefer a shorthand too
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tantek
maybe better to gather more examples first
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snarfed
a reader could do it automatically. fetch the site in their silo profile's website link, compare that last few silo posts, see if they have corresponding posts on the site
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snarfed
(with or without syndication links)
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snarfed
s/a reader/some code/
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tantek
snarfed, do you know of any existing methods for "classic" feeds to update their own URLs?
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snarfed
just 3xx redirects
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snarfed
rss/atom may have something else; i'm definitely no feed format expert
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tantek
KevinMarks might know
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tantek
"moved to: tantek.com" :)
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KevinMarks
deeds have a way to indicate their own url
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tantek
do any existing readers follow any of that to update their own subscription URLs?
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tantek
and what happens if its a format change?
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tantek
e.g. if inside tantek.com/updates.atom I say, use the new feed URL tantek.com ?
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gRegorLove
snarfed: I just hooked bridgy up to IG today. Didn't get an indieauth prompt, though. Is that for something different?
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snarfed
gRegorLove: we haven't shipped it yet. bridgy currently still uses the API
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KevinMarks
I think as snarfed says assuming 3xx redirects with 301 meaning remember this one and 302 meaning dont
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gRegorLove
Feedburner lets you 301 redirect your feed
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tantek
gRegorLove: but after that does it request the new or old URL? or does it keep both around and revert?
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gRegorLove
What's the "it" in that sentence? Feedburner?
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gRegorLove
I haven't checked my logs to see if it's requesting my feed URL. I presumed it wasn't.
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gRegorLove
I don't know what it would be doing with the feed content if it did
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emceeaich
KevinMarks, you had some JS to disrupt Genius?
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aaronpk
KevinMarks++ for not using "Genius" in the name
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Loqi
KevinMarks has 203 karma
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emceeaich
Thank you, Kevin!
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KevinMarks
the 'idiot' is implied
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KevinMarks
“I can’t help somebody who thinks, or thinks he thinks, that editing a newspaper is censorship, or that throwing bricks is a demonstration while building tower blocks is social violence, or that unpalatable statement is provocation while disrupting the speaker is the exercise of free speech… Words don’t deserve that kind of malarkey. ”
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KevinMarks
hm, I need to write a post about this,
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gRegorLove
What's that quote from?
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KevinMarks
that's from Tom Stoppard's "The Real Thing"
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KevinMarks
"Genius did not respond to a request for comment, but we imagine they’ll annotate the story if they like." lol
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gRegorLove
That was a hard quote to parse, but I think I get it now.
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Loqi
[Kevin Marks] Soi-disant Genius is a magnet for condescension
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@scottjenson
Personal epiphany: Locking my creative output into opaque files and using the Finder to organize it is massively holding me back
(twitter.com/_/status/714256272367886336)
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tantek
I'm wondering what kind of "opaque" files he's using? MSFT? PDF? because text files are hardly opaque in that Spotlight search indexes them transparently
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tantek
I sympathize sorta - even with non-opaque files (txt, html) I feel the inability to edit those in *trivially* publicly sync'd way is holding me back
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tantek
(trivially as in no, git / github is not an answer, it's admin tax)
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KevinMarks
github pages are surprisingly good at that
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snarfed
also a public dropbox account synched to a local directory
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KevinMarks
eg I can have an 'edit this page' link on http://reddoric.com/ that works instantly for me and other page owners, and makes a PR for otehrs
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snarfed
(existing editors work, sync is automatic, easily viewable publicy over http)
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bear
KevinMarks - small typo on your article - s/redirec/redirect/
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snarfed
and dropbox auto sync works on smartphones as well as computers
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KevinMarks
thanks bear
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bear
oh - and abilty
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KevinMarks
hm, that was a quick edit too
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bear
s/viewer and crawler/viewer and crawler./
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bear
I would also make the one case of "genius" Genius to match the other use pattern
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bear
ha - found the errant "." - it's at the very end of the text :)
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gRegorLove
KevinMarks: no href on the "harass Ella Dawson" link
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bear
indieweb folks are definitely power readers/editors :)
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gRegorLove
What is admin tax?
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Loqi
admin tax is all the time you spend maintaining your personal site, rather than actually using it (like to create posts) https://indiewebcamp.com/admin_tax
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KevinMarks
OK, I think I fixed all those
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bear
KevinMarks++ short article but very to the point
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Loqi
KevinMarks has 204 karma
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KevinMarks
now I need to edit the medium POSSE copy
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KevinMarks
POSSE admin tx too
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gRegorLove
I'm curious how NYT is "blocking" genius (according to http://genius.com/8892341)
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tantek
snarfed++ for reminding me about dropbox
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Loqi
snarfed has 208 karma
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tantek
I think I have a strong resistance to adding such a solidified silo to a key part of my "creative output"
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gRegorLove
How about btsync?
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tantek
is the dropbox sync protocol documented anywhere?
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tantek
gRegorLove: well I have btsync setup to grab the IWC wiki, which has been handy a few times
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KevinMarks
so copyediting on Known in response to those comments was pretty fast
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Loqi
known has 11 karma
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tantek
!karma idno
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Loqi
idno has 3 karma
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tantek
known++
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Loqi
known has 12 karma
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snarfed
the cloud-auto-sync model with automatic public URLs based on file path is a good one, independent of silo or protocol
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snarfed
esp if you wrap the auto-generated urls in ones on your own domain, so you can keep them working if/when you switch silos/protocols
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KevinMarks
iDisk got this exactly right
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KevinMarks
Google Drive cocks it up by having shitty URLs
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KevinMarks
and they're discontinuing it
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tantek
what is iDisk?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "iDisk" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Gw
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tantek
what is Google Drive?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Drive" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Gx
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bear
known++
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Loqi
known has 13 karma
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tantek
what is Dropbox?
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Loqi
Dropbox is a file hosting web service https://indiewebcamp.com/Dropbox
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KevinMarks
this was a standard wasn't it?
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tantek
what was? AFP? NFS?
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KevinMarks
no, the web one
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tantek
WebDAV?
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tantek.com
edited /Falcon (+585) "/* Indie Wiki */ note additional related itches, and as simple as dropbox sync"
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KevinMarks
yes, WebDAV - iDisk you could mount and change on windows with it
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tantek
what is WebDAV?
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Loqi
WebDAV is an HTTP-based protocol used to create and edit files on a server that has some IndieWeb adoption https://indiewebcamp.com/WebDAV
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tantek
surprised if Google Drive doesn't support WebDAV?
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KevinMarks
iDisk was Apple's cloud disk silo, that also provided web hosting and [[WebDAV]] support. It was shut down for random company reasons, causing many [[site-deaths]]
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loqi.me
created /iDisk (+190) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-28/line/1459202311561 and dfn added by KevinMarks"
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gRegorLove
What is Google Docs?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Docs" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Gy
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tantek
KevinMarks: I wonder why there's no obvious "Connect to WebDAV" in the Finder. Or is there if you use a magic webdav: URL?
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KevinMarks
I think it's under Connect to Server
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tantek
there's an AFP example there but no idea how to connect to webdav:
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KevinMarks
connect to server, then the web address
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KevinMarks
not that I have a webdav server any more
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KevinMarks
box.com does webdav apparently
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tantek
I guess that's still a step back from the Dropbox UX which lets you edit things locally in your directory and automatically connects / syncs
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tantek
whereas WebDAV is only a direct-to-server connection. No network, no WebDAV document access.
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bear
dropbox wrote about some of their sync tech -- https://blogs.dropbox.com/tech/2015/10/inside-lan-sync/
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KevinMarks
iDIsk mac.com was great
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KevinMarks
initially it was a network drive, then it became a local cache
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bear
https://support.apple.com/kb/ph18514 < webdav access from finder
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emceeaich
the photo gallery on iDisk that integrated with iPhoto used a bunch of custom properties on your iDisk so that iPhoto. Once you connected it to your iDisk, iPhoto would publish photos (and strips of each photo in a gallery for previews) to your iDisk. The web app was just javascript.
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tantek
we've pretty much capped the creation/use of new rel-values which I feel like we should document somehow so we don't put more energy into it unintentionally
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tantek
going to attempt a stub
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tantek.com
created /rel-values (+973) "stub with existing indieweb rel values in use"
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tantek.com
edited /rel-values (+219) "rel-in-reply-to, subheads for levels"
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snarfed
tantek: rel-feed is also actively in use, for discovering h-feeds on other pages
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snarfed
also rel-shortlink, which i don't feel quite as strongly about
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tantek
do we use shortlink anywhere?
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tantek
does anyone consume it?
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snarfed
bridgy publish consumes it
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snarfed
it uses it as the backlink if available
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snarfed
also rel-webmention is active i think
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tantek
(duh) ;)
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tantek
and micropub
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aaronpk
wow this seems like a good reason not to use IFTTT: "IFTTT shall own all right, title, and interest (and all related moral rights and intellectual property rights) in and to the Developer Tool, Service, and Content."
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aaronpk
Content?!
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tantek
that's worthy of adding to /IFTTT#Criticism
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snarfed
"moral rights" O_o
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aaronpk
it gets worse
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aaronpk
also i'm not sure how IFTTT can claim to own the content that flows through it given that the USERS aren't even agreeing to this, this is the TOS for developers of IFTTT channels
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tantek
that's nuts
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aaronpk
sounds like someone got a pile of money and hired lawyers who have no grasp in reality
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tantek
rather than asking the client for the socio-technical context, sounds like the lawyers were lazy / conservative and wrote up terms assuming "own all the things"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /IFTTT (+332) "pinboard"
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tantek
what's worse is that those that hired the lawyers didn't bother to read the TOS with developer/user mindset and catch such things
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tantek.com
edited /rel-values (+449) "feed, micropub, webmention, icon"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /rel-values (+104) "authorization_endpoint, token_endpoint"
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tantek.com
edited /rel-values (+9) "/* In use */ web-sign-in"
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tantek.com
edited /social-standards (+13) "update to u-in-reply-to instead of rel-in-reply-to, still a stub, see also building blocks"
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tantek.com
edited /rel-values (+28) "/* External dependency */ more icon"
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snarfed
tantek: i can add shortlink w/bridgy citation if you want
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tantek
wait I'm confused - how does it use it as a backlink? oh, at the POSSE copy?!?
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tantek
*really*?!? **interesting!**
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tantek
does anyone use that? now I'm considering it...
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tantek
(If I'm understanding correctly)
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aaronpk
oh so if my original post contains rel=shortlink, then bridgy will also look for the short link in the POSSE copy?
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snarfed
no, tantek's right. this is for publish, it uses it as the published backlink
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snarfed
(OPD already handles backlinks since it follows redirects)
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tantek.com
edited /rel-values (+107) "/* In use */ shortlink"
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aaronpk
oh for publish
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tantek
snarfed: is this description correct? https://indiewebcamp.com/rel-values#In_use
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snarfed
people definitely use it. we added it because people asked for it :P
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snarfed
tantek: yes
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snarfed.org
edited /rel-values (+63) "bridgy rel-feed"
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tantek
this is turning into a more useful summary than I intended/expected
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tantek
all because I wanted a logical place tomove some of the old brainstorming on /responses
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tantek
evacuating the /responses page before moving /interactions to it and renaming
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KevinMarks
hm, can the wiki update to not requiring 2 hashes for a fragmention?
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tantek
KevinMarks: how does the wiki implement it? and have such implementations been fixed?
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tantek
(js etc.)
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snarfed
wow, the rel-shortlink bridgy publish discussion was involved: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/173
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tantek
still likes the aesthetic of ##
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tantek
the hint that something new and interesting is happening
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tantek
realizes that's not a good excuse and that the more minimal #-only design is better from a simplicity perspective
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aaronpk
i think i copied someone's js script to the wiki at some point
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tantek.com
edited /interactions (+9) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ responses"
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