#indiewebcamp 2016-03-17

2016-03-17 UTC
wolftune, sonicrocketman, Gold, Pierre-O, wolcen_ and mblaney joined the channel
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mblaney my thoughts on delete for readers: you could stick with tombstones and make hiding the post with css part of your delete process.
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mblaney to deal with the page 3 issue, also update the published time to the current time when deleting the post.
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mblaney that should make it appear on your front page, which shouldn't matter if you do the first step.
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KevinMarks not published, updated
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mblaney unicyclic will remove the post if you did this
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mblaney KevinMarks: I'm saying modifying the publish time will have more impact than modifying update time.
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mblaney some readers might not care about update time
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KevinMarks well, depends how you create your feed
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mblaney yeah that might not suit everyone, but if you need to make changes to support deleted posts that sounds like the simplest way to me.
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kylewm KevinMarks: we talked the other day about Known+Twitter not automatically including @-names when you reply via Woodwind
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KevinMarks it was if I replied to a post directly that was also POSSE'd to twitter
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kylewm I think it probably makes sense to go ahead and add the @-name (server-side) at syndication time
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kylewm the same thing would happen if you replied directly to a tweet via woodwind, i'm pretty sure
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KartikPrabhu maybe Known is not doing syndication-copy discovery while POSSEing
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KevinMarks I thought replying to a tweet put it in
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kylewm i'll try it
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KevinMarks on the /share page when you click reply it does
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kylewm right, but not via woodwind
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kylewm because it's done client side on the share page
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kylewm I want to add code to the twitter plugin to add the name automatically if it's not there already; see any problems with that?
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KartikPrabhu twitter char-limit
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kylewm yeah, it screws up the character count
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kylewm but i think that's better than accidentally posting a reply without an @
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KevinMarks is the char count using the cassis algorithm now?
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kylewm no, brevity
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kylewm which is essentially the same thing
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp!
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tantek tries to catch up on logs
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tantek I think deletes and updates may merit displaying in an "updated posts" box/section on a home page
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tantek mentioned that to aaronpk - the box/section can be purely presentational - the updates themselves could be h-entrys along with the other h-entrys on the page
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tantek ooh kylewm did the Known algorithm for POSSE tweet truncation/ellipsing get fixed?
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kylewm tantek: was it broken?
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KevinMarks there was a specific twwt of yours that failed wan't it
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KevinMarks this one http://tantek.com/2016/069/t1/netflix-down-brainstorm-indieweb-flix
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] While @Netflix is down,
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KevinMarks when I reposted
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KevinMarks it got ellipsed https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/707708487367659520
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tantek kylewm: yeah - Known truncated far too much
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@kevinmarks While @Netflix is down, https://twitter.com/Netflixhelps/status/707699033473585152 let’s brainstorm an # ... http://tantek.com/2016/069/t1/netflix-down-brainstorm-indieweb-flix (twitter.com/_/status/707708487367659520)
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tantek for no reason
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KevinMarks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/while-netflix-is-downnetflixhelpsstatus707699033473585152lets-brainstorm-an-indieweb-flixwhat-would-it
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] Kevin Marks
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aaronpk THANKS LOQI
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aaronpk YOUR THE BEST
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kylewm hmm, the markup is all screwed up on that, that might be the problem
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Loqi you're welcome
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kylewm I kinda disavow the Bookmark plugin :P
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aaronpk oh I forgot to tell Ann to enable the events plugin! we'll have to fix that tomorrow
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tantek what is the Bookmark plugin?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Bookmark plugin" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10GS
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tantek what is the events plugin?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "events plugin" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10GT
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GWG Evening
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tantek Evening GWG!
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aaronpk waves
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GWG How was IWC?
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kylewm Bookmark plugin is a [[Known]] plugin that creates bookmark posts.
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loqi.me created /Bookmark_plugin (+93) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-16/line/1458179736643 and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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kylewm Events plugin is a [[Known]] plugin that creates [[event]] and [[rsvp]] posts.
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loqi.me created /Events_plugin (+105) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-16/line/1458179747066 and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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kylewm consistent pluralization fail!
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aaronpk what do we want! consistency! when do we want it! some time in the future!
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KevinMarks Eventually
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aaronpk KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 197 karma
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/alangrow/status/599760129370652674
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@alangrow What do we want? Consistency. When do we want it? Eventually. (twitter.com/_/status/599760129370652674)
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KevinMarks Eventually https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6EaoPMANQM
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kylewm basilfawlty++
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Loqi basilfawlty has 1 karma
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KevinMarks I think of Andrew Sachs saying "Eventually" every time I hear Eventual consistency
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tantek.com edited /Atom (+332) "/* RSS Atom wars */ 2003-07 Clay Shirky and Ben Hammersley posts" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Me on atom wars http://epeus.blogspot.com/2003/09/how-to-atomize-or-de-atomize.html
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[kevinmarks] That methodology still applies
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tantek KevinMarks: you have one of the few remaining functional permalinks ... on a silo
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aaronpk sounds like atomizer.org had similar goals as https://xray.p3k.io!
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tantek.com edited /timeline (+74) "/* 2003 */ link to documentation of RSS Atom Wars as of when they happened with start date, instead of a conversation recalling them." (view diff)
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aaronpk "Implement a web service at atomizer.org that, presented with a feed URI in arbitrary format, returns a usable feed in Atom format. (For extra credit, provide an API in mainstream languages that does this transparently when parsing fails)."
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aaronpk except XRay is currently focused on permalinks for individual posts, but I do have plans to extend it to support feeds
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tantek wondering if I should move RSS Atom Wars to its own page
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aaronpk considering it's the first result on google for RSS Atom Wars i think that might be justified
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-03-16-23-28-06.png
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gregorlove.com edited /questo.email (+158) "past tense, list dates live, cite gh readme" (view diff)
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gRegorLove That's too bad ^ I was going to test that out as an alternative to local blog comments.
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tantek.com edited /Atom (+616) "/* RSS Atom wars */ Joi and kevinmarks posts" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /RSS_Atom_wars (+3567) "move to separate page instead of preoccupying the Atom page with it" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Atom () "(-3148) /* RSS Atom wars */ summarize and move to a separate page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /RSS_Atom_wars (+125) "expand why timing was essential, emergence of silos" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /RSS_Atom_wars (+132) "Aaron Swartz's post pointing out the shift" (view diff)
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@ChrisAldrich Sad to see https://github.com/idno/HanShotFirst is missing from @WithKnown's http://docs.withknown.com/en/latest/plugins/community/ #IndieWeb :( (twitter.com/_/status/710340001096044545)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Sad to see https://github.com/idno/HanShotFirst is missing from @WithKnown's http://docs.withknown.com/en/latest/plugins/community/ #IndieWeb :(" by Chris Aldrich http://stream.boffosocko.com/2016/sad-to-see-idnohanshotfirst-is-missing-from-withknowns-enlatestpluginscommunity-indieweb
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@tinokremer Add social "webmebtions" to WordPress or get yourself your own @withknown site and be independent #indieweb http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2016/03/16/instagram-is-going-to-be-the-next-facebook/ (twitter.com/_/status/710352386292850688)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Add social "webmebtions" to WordPress or get yourself your own @withknown site and be independent #indieweb http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2016/03/16/instagram-is-going-to-be-the-next-facebook/" by Tino Kremer https://tinokremer.nl/2016/add-social-webmebtions-to-wordpress-or-get-yourself-your-own
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KevinMarks what is webmebtions?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "webmebtions" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10GU
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@m_ott D'oh, too late, sold out! No @btconf Ddorf for me… At least I’ll be at the IndieWebCamp with @aaronpk & @adactio – looking forward to it! (twitter.com/_/status/710378459214774272)
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petermolnar http://blog.instagram.com/post/141107034797/160315-news - if we could figure out a dump-proof migration from instagram to woodwind & known we could get a vast amount of online population on the actual internet
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cweiske haha: http://fotos.cweiske.de/screenshots/2016-03-17%20broken%20instagram%20comments.png
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petermolnar huh?
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cweiske if you scroll down on that page
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petermolnar of, the rest is js;dr :)
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petermolnar but I'll check it
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petermolnar wait, blog.instagram.com is on tumblr?
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petermolnar lol :D
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petermolnar people of instagram, start using tumblr or flickr... it'd be better for you.
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KevinMarks and why are all the comments mangled?
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cweiske interop
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KevinMarks how to they mung http://woaah.tumblr.com/post/141194887720 into gibberish?
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petermolnar "Instagram has become my social media of choice because it is the way it is, and I don’t want that to change." / href="http://helloskeleton.tumblr.com/post/141193563361/see-the-moments-you-care-about-first/" target="_blank">http://helloskeleton.tumblr.com/post/141193563361/see-the-moments-you-care-about-first/ welcome to capitalism. Get your own site and your own reader if you want to be in charge.
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KevinMarks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/where-did-the-%25c2%25aa-cruft-come-from
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] where did the }ª cruft come from?
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cweiske seems like broken css
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petermolnar how does an indie site ping tumblr posts?
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KevinMarks silo.pub?
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petermolnar without posting to tumblr?
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KevinMarks no, that will post to tumblr
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KevinMarks brid.gy will mung webmentions inot tumblr, but you need to be the tumblr owner
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petermolnar I had that feeling I'll need a tumblr for it
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petermolnar thanks
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KevinMarks it also wants disqus
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@d0gada Added to Coect support for likes, bookmarks and notifications (https://dogada.org/dvd/blog/added-indieweb-likes-to-coect) (twitter.com/_/status/710417339125137412)
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petermolnar actually we should be glad for this change; the more dissatisfied, the more will try to find alternatives; sadly we're not ready with solutions, so maybe next time (eg. when Snapchat collapses, or something similar)
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petermolnar KevinMarks the a{after thing is a css problem, if you check the site without CSS, it's fine
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petermolnar also a bit surprised about the outcry from tumblr users; I thought the common section between instagram and tumblr users is fairly thin
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wrk3.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+126) "/* 2016 */ Added Benjamin Kerensa article" (view diff)
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petermolnar I have a mobile UI idea, but never have developed an app, I've a bit clueless. There short version:
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petermolnar subcribe: mobile client wants to subscribe -> request to own website which is also a pubsub client with url -> own website detects stream endpoint -> requests pubsub subscription to stream -> starts mobile push for new content via pubsub
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petermolnar interact: mobile client -> micropub website -> webmention (current way)
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petermolnar opinions?
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cweiske is your "mobile client" a reader app on your phone?
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petermolnar it would be the complete thing, just like instagram, twitter, whatever is right now, both reader and writer
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petermolnar I think this is the missing piece
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@coect_net RT @d0gada Added to Coect support for likes, bookmarks and notifications (https://dogada.org/dvd/blog/added-indieweb-likes-to-coect) (twitter.com/_/status/710429236482412544)
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@coect_net RT @d0gada Added to Coect support for likes, bookmarks and notifications (https://dogada.org/dvd/blog/added-indieweb-likes-to-coect) (twitter.com/_/status/710429305709400064)
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[kevinmarks] woodwind is some of that
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voxpelli the more readers the better, the least discovered space of IndieWeb right now I think
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petermolnar wow, how did I now know this earlier? https://xkcd.com/1150/
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petermolnar perfect summary, as usual
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@acegiak Pondering the association between Cypro and depression. Think I need an #indieweb mood tracking solution. - http://acegiak.machinespirit.net/2016/03/18/21315/ (twitter.com/_/status/710463501173559296)
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tantek hey what was the conclusion on dt-deleted?
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tantek I saw discussion in the past few days
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kylewm I dont' think there was a conclusion, and criticially no implementation yet, but dt-deleted seemed like the leading candidate for noting that/when a post had been deleted
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tantek ok good, rather than overloading dt-updated
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kylewm with the idea that you'd sort old posts that had been recently deleted to the top of your feed
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gregorlove.com edited /ProcessWire (+219) "/* Plugins */ IndieAuth" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Hm. Another HTTP 500 on huffduffer. Only on the tag pages though.
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Loqi [indieweb] "Replies to: https://indiewebcamp.com/projects #blogging # ..." http://mageemarsh.com/cgi-bin/junco.pl/replies/66949
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Loqi [indieweb] "“the most interactive and flexible way to do “social media” is own your own blog.” http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2016/03/16/instagram-is-going-to-be-the-next-facebook/ #indieweb" by Kevin Marks http://known.kevinmarks.com/2016/the-most-interactive-and-flexible-way-to-do-social-media
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Loqi [indieweb] "Replies to: https://indiewebcamp.com/projects #blogging # ..." http://mageemarsh.com/cgi-bin/junco.pl/replies/66949
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@michaelsoolee @olivermakes @daviddarnes clever :) Another fine example of IndieWeb. Been looking into it more and more since you mentioned. Esp. POSSE. (twitter.com/_/status/710549065537359872)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Replies to: https://indiewebcamp.com/projects #blogging # ..." http://www.jothut.com/cgi-bin/junco.pl/replies/66949
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@miklb @olivermakes cool. I think I’ve seen you around #indieweb IRC as well, yes? (twitter.com/_/status/710558058301276162)
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@olivermakes @miklb Yes – I’m looking into indieweb enhancements for my site and just went to the first couple homebrew website club events in DC. (twitter.com/_/status/710558290510479364)
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gRegorLove Didn't even realized we had DC HWC going on. Awesome!
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gRegorLove s/realized/realize/
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Loqi gRegorLove meant to say: Didn't even realize we had DC HWC going on. Awesome!
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@olivermakes @miklb I saw your post on webmentions for Jekyll. How is that working with Jekyll 3? How is it working in general? (twitter.com/_/status/710559093728088064)
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@miklb @olivermakes only caveat I have currently is caching sent webmentions due to my deploy workflow, otherwise great (twitter.com/_/status/710559645824372736)
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[jgarber] gregorlove: We do! Still getting things off the ground, but we’re having fun with it so far.
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@LukasRosenstock "Can we save the open web?" http://buytaert.net/can-we-save-the-open-web Dries Buytaert, founder of #Drupal, makes his case for the #openweb / #indieweb. (twitter.com/_/status/710586862923083782)
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snarfed looks like myfreeweb is touching (and resending webmentions for) all of his past posts :P
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[oliverpattison] no DC HWC next week though
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myfreeweb snarfed: all past posts? well that's weird
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myfreeweb i don't have any resend code yet
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snarfed1 not a problem, just interesting
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snarfed oh you're right, i misread the dates
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snarfed just a bunch of bridgy publish like failures since you'd already liked all those tweets: https://brid.gy/twitter/myfreeweb#publishes
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myfreeweb oh yeah i know that
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myfreeweb why does that count as failures?
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snarfed twitter 403s the api request
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myfreeweb likes are supposed to be idempotent, you shouldn't interpret "already liked" as failure
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snarfed right, if i knew you'd already liked it before, eg if the original like was via bridgy, i'd agree
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snarfed otherwise, it's unclear how to handle it in the UI
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snarfed product decision, meh :P
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myfreeweb i wanted to get the success responses so that my engine would write the u-syndication links :(
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myfreeweb it's not that i actually need them on likes but for some reason i really wanted them
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snarfed ah. heh. you already know the syndication links, right? ie just copy like-of to u-syndication?
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myfreeweb on likes i already posted? yeah of course i can do that. in the engine? nope, i want syndication to mean "successfully bridgy'd"
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snarfed got it. well then technically this is doing what you want. bridgy's only returning success (and synd link) for successfully bridgy'd likes :P
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snarfed if you want bridgy to be idempotent with existing non-bridgy'd likes...then yeah, that'd be a feature request, but honestly i'd probably choose to keep the current semantics. sorry.
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myfreeweb more like a bug report than a feature request :P
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myfreeweb but whatever, that's not really important
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snarfed ok!
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mblaney I'd be interested to know what dt-deleted provides that an empty post doesn't?
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mblaney also it's probably obvious but a deleted post only needs to be temporarily surfaced for readers to pick it up
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mblaney (ie if it gets given the current timestamp it's ok for it to scroll off a front page as new posts are added)