#indiewebcamp 2016-03-03

2016-03-03 UTC
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sknebel
because otherwise it should have redirected you to the page URL?
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gRegorLove
aaronpk: Sounds about right. My homepage is an example of that. Just my latest article in an h-entry, u-url is the post permalink
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aaronpk
as we speak, just got another connect error from a random domain, since they mapped their domain to blogger. so yeah i'm gonna have to do something more complicated than a whitelist
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snarfed
aaronpk: it's also funny that your problem where xray can't fetch google urls (or needs that option) is PHP-specific
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snarfed
ie bridgy (python) fetches google urls fine without any corresponding option
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snarfed
oh btw aaronpk re that day's worth of wmio stats, how many total incoming wms did it get?
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snarfed
just curious
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aaronpk
huh that's weird
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aaronpk
looks like about 900 which seems lower than i would have expected
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aaronpk
i'm actually looking at the number of requests to XRay, not actually looking a webmention.io, but it does a request to XRay for every incoming webmention (after it rate limits a little)
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gRegorLove
aaronpk: What if you always included X-Appengine-Inbound-Appid in the headers?
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gRegorLove
Nevermind, can't be modified by your app
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aaronpk
fun fact: if you encountered any HTTP redirects when fetching a page, don't forget to use the last URL as the reference URL when dealing with the page afterwards
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aaronpk
e.g. if you fetch aaron.pk/4Zn5 then make sure you use the resulting URL on aaronparecki.com when passing to the microformats parser otherwise all the relative URLs in the parsed result will be wrong
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KartikPrabhu
good point
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aaronpk
it looks obvious in that case, but is much more subtle when the URL is aaronparecki.com/articles/2015/... vs aaronparecki.com/2015/...
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[kevinmarks]
hm, I wodner if unmung gets that right
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aaronpk
so glad I am only writing this code once
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[kevinmarks]
which urls in http://aaron.pk/4Zn5 are relative?
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aaronpk
u-photo is
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KartikPrabhu
ruh-roh! mf2py does not seem to be doing that correctly then!
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aaronpk
is mf2py the thing making the http request?
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aaronpk
(i normally make the http request myself before handing it off to the php parser)
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[kevinmarks]
yes, it uses aaron.pk
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: if you give mf2py a URL it will make the request
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aaronpk
then consider this a bug report :)
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KartikPrabhu
yup looking it up and filing
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aaronpk
i do like how easily i can roll back a version on appengine
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snarfed
also traffic splitting for a/b testing
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snarfed
(or canarying)
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aaronpk
huh. now i'm kind of thinking it just never follows redirects in appengine
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KevinMarks
hm, that URL redirects 3 times
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Loqi
[Aaron Parecki] SFO ✈️ SLC ✈️ PDX #travel
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aaronpk
ha one of those worked
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aaronpk
yeah that's intentional
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gRegorLove
3 redirects, 3 airports
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aaronpk
aaron.pk is just an nginx rewrite rule, no code behind it
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aaronpk
the r/4Zn5 URL is a module in p3k that expands it to the date, but has no other context at that point in time
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aaronpk
then the actual URL router expands 2014/12/23/5 to include the "travel" slug since that post has a custom slug
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aaronpk
I *could* save that last redirect, but can't skip the first one
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snarfed
is glad he caches redirects
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KevinMarks
well, the last 2 are 302 so strictly you shouldn't
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KevinMarks
OK, fixed unmung so the relative URLs work correctly
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KevinMarks
thanks aaronpk for the test case
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aaronpk
hm i should fix those since they should be 301
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KevinMarks
(I was fetching outside mf2py so I can use etag etc)
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snarfed
merrily ignores "strictly"s
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@RachelHaywire
I may have to be the one to create an alternative to Twitter myself at this rate. Is nobody doing it?
(twitter.com/_/status/705199250049671168)
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snarfed
fortunately my effective cache lifetime is ~12h so it doesn't matter too much in practice
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@RachelHaywire
Someone leaked a private picture of me on an impersonator account and Twitter is not suspending them, even though I verified my identity.
(twitter.com/_/status/705184529212805121)
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@geoffpicus
RT @kevinmarks “The closed web is winning “because it’s easier to use.”” - @dries http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2016/03/01/berkman-dries-buytaert/ #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/705219134632558592)
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aaronpk
so i'm still pretty stumped on this appengine redirect handling stuff
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aaronpk
for some reason it won't parse this URL on the live version, but is fine on my dev copy https://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=http://aaron.pk/4Zn5
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aaronpk
also hahaha wow i should add caching to it
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aaronpk
when I paste a link in here, 5 requests are made to the URL immediately
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aaronpk
several IRC clients and also SlackBot
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bear
yea, a lot of IRC clients now do head requests to get media content info
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bear
nicely worded
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aaronpk
*sigh* my heuristic for detecting a canonical post is failing with bridgy
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aaronpk
because bridgy doesn't set the bridgy URL as the url of the h-entry
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aaronpk
i'll add another case to check if there is only exactly one item on the page
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aaronpk
that seems reasonable
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aaronpk
even aside from bridgy
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snarfed
music to my ears
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aaronpk
hm actually i thought i had that test in there already. wonder what's different about the bridgy markup
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[kevinmarks]
Unmung.com can fetch that url fine. What is different between PHP and python?
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snarfed
[kevinmarks]: yeah i noted the same thing. unclear, but definitely different
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aaronpk
the aaron.pk url?
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aaronpk
fix for single h-entry is deployed
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aaronpk
also can i just say again how great it is to be able to roll back to a previous version so easily?
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snarfed
huh i'm kinda surprised you do that so much (?)
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snarfed
but glad you like it!
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aaronpk
well just right now since i launched this change and started seeing errors from bridgy urls
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aaronpk
gave me a chance to revert before launchign a fix!
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snarfed
fair enough!
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acegiak
GWG: Trying to work out how to make it so that when I post from the wordpress app which doesn't specify a kind, obviously, posts get auto-marked as the "note" kind
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GWG
acegiak: Long time no speak.
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GWG
acegiak: I have an idea for that I was considering implementing.
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GWG
acegiak: A 'default' kind you can set. Right now, it is unofficially note.
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acegiak
yeah I think that's a good idea
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GWG
I have a site where i'd want it to default to article. And I could think of other similar scenarios
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acegiak
yeah definitely
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acegiak
shall I have a crack and if it works, PR it?
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acegiak
is the wordpress repo up to date with the github version or should I grab the latest github version first?
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GWG
Please. I've been laid up the last week and a half with a respiratory thing. I'm on vacation after tomorrow for a few days. Was planning on doing some minor tweaks.
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GWG
The github version has a few tweaks.
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GWG
That I haven't pushed to stable. Mostly bugfixes
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acegiak
aw 😢 hope you're ok
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GWG
Just bronchitis.
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acegiak
okiedoke. I'll try a fiddle with default post kind and have a look into why kses is acting up again
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GWG
But I was working on the Indieweb Plugin improvement stuff, if you were following that
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acegiak
I've been busy working on game design stuff for a few months
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GWG
Basically, moving rel-me and h-card basic functionality into the Indieweb plugin so installing/configuring it helps you establish your identity online
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acegiak
ah cool
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GWG
And since I believe in self-dogfooding, it has to at least have enough features for me to switch to.
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GWG
But yesterday, I noticed some design issues with Post Kinds and some themes and wanted to try to fix them.
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acegiak
at some point I should really just redo whisperfollow the fact that the code is so messy I'm not sure how I'd make it a thing other people could use easily
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GWG
acegiak: I say that about most of my work. But if you keep iterating, it seems to get less...messy, I've learned of late.
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[kevinmarks]
copy paste until it works, refactor at leisure
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[kevinmarks]
nice to see you here again acegiak
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GWG
KevinMarks: I've learned a lot making mistakes over the years.
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[kevinmarks]
wisdom is often just having explored more mistakes first
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acegiak
oh hi KevinMarks!
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KevinMarks
hi acegiak - my woodwind feed starts my day with you smiling every morning, so it's nice to see you here too
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acegiak
😄 it's really interesting the way my 2016 daily journal & selfie project affects a bunch of my relationships that I hadn't considered
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acegiak
I hope my lastfm and youtube scrobbling doesn't spam anyone's feed too much. I've specifically got them categorised so that it should be easy to filter them out
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bear
aaronpk - I spent about an hour trying to write words explaining how to submit articles to the aggregator i'm writing and to be honest, yours are so much better - so i'm going to be borrowing chunks of your how-to page
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bear
and adding a lot of gushing praise in the /about for you and others
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KartikPrabhu1
bear: will I be in it for standing by and watching while people do things? ;
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KartikPrabhu1
;)
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bear
your not standing by at all
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KartikPrabhu
damnit I don't even get credit for being lazy ;P
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bear
and yes, I will be working almost everyone into the about
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begriffs
Thinking about breaking out of silos like Slack, I'd like to host a chat server for some coworkers. What's best: running an irc server or xmpp (or something else)?
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bear
both will work, it all depends on which you feel comfortable running
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bear
xmpp is useful if you already have a comfort with it's clients
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bear
irc is what you will find easier to share with others
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KartikPrabhu
bear: any particular reason?
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bear
mostly the clients
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KartikPrabhu
as in why is irc easier to share?
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bear
they are messaging oriented and the chat interfaces are harder to use
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bear
with IRC you get them to install a client and give the server info
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bear
with xmpp they will need an xmpp identity (or you give them one)
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bear
personally I prefer xmpp over irc, but that's because i've lived with xmpp for decades and know it's problems well
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bear
it's getting better - but not enough that I can even point you at a web interface for xmpp that doesn't make me wince
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begriffs
bear: how about a client app like Adium, is that one OK?
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KartikPrabhu
begriffs: in my experience Adium and Pidgin are fine with both IRc and XMPP
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bear
yes, adium works with both xmpp and irc
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bear
another good xmpp client is Swift.im
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bear
a good irc client is Textual
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bear
tho without knowing the tech level of your coworkers (or how patient you are)... it's hard to say
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begriffs
Suppose people are happy to use swift.im and I'm running eJabberd on digitalocean...I would have to create accounts for each user, right? Would they be able to change their own passwords?
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bear
you would have to create them or allow in-band registration
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bear
allowing in band registration is tough to control if your site url gets out to the public
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bear
once they are online with their account they control it
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KartikPrabhu
sounds almost like a "security risk" ?
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KartikPrabhu
or spam/abuse
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bear
spam/abuse mostly
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begriffs
Is it possible to create a kind of site-wide password to protect in-band registration?
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bear
not really - I don't think ejabberd allows that
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bear
if your a web dev, you could create a small page for them to sign up - and then run the ejabberd command line request to add a user
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bear
but i'm not that familiar with how ejabberd's admin stuff works
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begriffs
Or maybe a newer self-hosted thing is better like http://www.mattermost.org
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bear
if your willing to do that I would look at http://getkaiwa.com/
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bear
it's a web oriented xmpp client with good notes on how to setup xmpp server
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bear
because it can use ldap to manage users
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rrix
I run and recommend matrix.org stuff
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rrix
You can bridge rooms in to the silos
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bear
another option - yep, they are good at bridging
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bear
please do let us know which you tried and liked (and any you didn't)
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KartikPrabhu
begriffs: it is always good to document these decisions. maybe a blogposrt
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begriffs
Matrix looks fascinating.
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bear
or entries in your indiewebcamp page as you work thru them
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acegiak
god I wish I could work out a nice way to posse to google plus
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bear
waves and wanders off to bed
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tantek.com
edited /Twitter (+218) "/* Poor handling of abuse */ note Twitter's history with bad handling of abuse since 2008 (citation)"
(view diff)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "235 Days on the Indieweb; something changed" by Tino Kremer https://tinokremer.nl/2016/235-days-on-the-indieweb-something-changed
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petermolnar
what is Mightybell?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Mightybell" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Fj
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petermolnar
Mightybell is a community as service web/mobile platform; https://mightybell.com
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loqi.me
created /Mightybell (+107) "prompted by petermolnar https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-03/line/1456998757413 and dfn added by petermolnar"
(view diff)
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rMdes
about xmpp/irc selfhosting earlier : https://github.com/YunoHost this nice tool help you get a nice dashboard with all your apps users@yourdomain.tld
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rMdes
they use Jappix
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rMdes
it's really a one click install and you get your xmpp network up & running + web interface or conect your own client if you prefer
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petermolnar
rMdes setting up openfire or prodosy is not really heavy for xmpp; and irc server is even more easy to do so
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rMdes
indeed it is, I have gone both ways just to learn
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rMdes
played both with prosody & openfire ended up with jappix for what I needed it was great, mostly because i needed a single sign on solution to switch between apps
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rMdes
and Yunohost does it perfectly
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petermolnar
I used to do a lot of the preinstalled os thing, or the web interface os editor ( like eBox or Virtualmin ) but it always leads to misunderstanding / not getting how things really work
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petermolnar
eBox goes as Zentyal these days, sorry
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rMdes
that's true also for yunohost, i had to digg a bit under the rublles to get how they make it work, in the end it's bash scripting adapted to each platform/os so it was easy to learn & see where things go
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petermolnar
that is true
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cweiske
but people using click-and-go software don't care how things work
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cweiske
they just wat it working
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rMdes
true indeed, but I feel bothered if I dont know how the nginx.conf is being written lol
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petermolnar
I know; however - and I know this sounds horrible - I don't want those people to use their own things
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petermolnar
for them, let the hosted solutions work
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petermolnar
because people who don't want to know how things work are liability and security risks
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acegiak
the sso thing with yunohost is what's making it appealing to me
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cweiske
they can get auto updates
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petermolnar
always keep home wifi routers in mind
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petermolnar
and how they are still used as botnets
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cweiske
i don't care what core config debian has for init.d
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cweiske
i only care that it wrks
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rMdes
yunohost is helping a lot of people get into the real of selfhosting and self managing your own shit, it's very good, because when they get frustrared by it's limitations, they either participate with solution, or move on to real self hosted without on-click solution, but it's too late, they are already on the journey to never go back to hotmail or gmail
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cweiske
or udev
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petermolnar
cweiske not that low
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petermolnar
I bet you do care about having a firewall, right?
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cweiske
on my laptop? no
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cweiske
on my home server? no
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cweiske
on my router? yes
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acegiak
petermolnar: feel like you're creating a weird poweruser/non-poweruser dichotomy that doesn't really exist
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cweiske
on the server on the internet? yes
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petermolnar
acegiak you're misunderstanding me: those who "I just want it to work" should not host their own, internet facing _server_. It's dangerous, not for them, but for anyone else using the internet.
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petermolnar
rMdes as a learning tool, it's nice and is needed
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petermolnar
we all started somewhere
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petermolnar
cweiske when the router and the server is separated, the approach of having security on the router is usually enough, unless there is upnp on the box, or a forwarded port
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acegiak
petermolnar: by that logic people shouldn't be allowed to set up wordpress on a cheap shared host with an install wizard?
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rMdes
i started from just wanting my own VPS with my own tools running, its only after that that i went yunohost for some cases and I learned a lot just by doing this journey with a few people, it's really great !
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acegiak
like, where are you drawing these sand lines?
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acegiak
If my sister wants to set up yunohost on a raspberry pi, what bad things are going to happen that are not going to happen on a service where she's payed a third party?
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petermolnar
acegiak cheap shared host is in theory managed by someone
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acegiak
who does what? leet counterhacking the chinese infiltrators?
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acegiak
if the system is set up correctly it shouldn't matter where it is
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petermolnar
I am well aware that this argument is problematic and sounds offensive; I was trying to phrase it as nice as I could. Currently there are billions of devices out there, actually participating as a botnet element, and they are mostly the maintained, outdated things that someone once installed and never really cared about, because "I just want it to work"
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petermolnar
and this upsets me
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acegiak
that's fair
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petermolnar
but the questions is very hard to answer and you are right, there are not clear boundaries
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rMdes
I understand this point, but it does not mean to be necessarily the case
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petermolnar
s/maintained/unmaintained
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acegiak
I don't think that's the fault of projects like yunohost, I think that's the fault of paid consumer products that claim to just work in a disposable society
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petermolnar
it's obviously not any projects fault
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petermolnar
it's the fault of trying to make computing easy and user-friendly
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rMdes
I know by experience, that if you get yunohost set up you're only at the begining of learning more, and that can only be good, for anyone
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acegiak
running something like yunohost would actively make people feel more in control of an responsible for their system
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petermolnar
rMdes same goes for a raspberry PI, which is still presented as a learning platform
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petermolnar
acegiak the responsibility part I unfortunately doubt
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petermolnar
how many Mac owners you know feel responsible for their laptop?
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rMdes
having all these nice apps easy to install, you still have to learn how to maintain your OS and have it patched at system level for security issues etc...so it's really a process, something you get to do more along the road
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rMdes
learning platform = the web :)
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acegiak
petermolnar: a mac owner feels more responsible for their laptop than their work computer
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acegiak
like, yeah they want it to "just work" but the fact that the work computer has an associated "IT guy" makes it less their problem
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acegiak
it's all degrees I guess
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petermolnar
we obviously need things like Zentyal, like yunohost, raspberry pi, etc.
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acegiak
honestly, right now, I'm looking at how to set up yunohost and migrate my personal blog because I've done way more damage to my own security trying to work out SSO on my own than any prepackaged solution could ever create
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petermolnar
but they all should face towards the learning curve, not the "just click here"
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petermolnar
rasberry pi does this
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petermolnar
for learning coding
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acegiak
"just click here" should exist, but it should exist with appropriately conservative development and support. then there are a thousand degrees of control all the way up to writing your own OS for your host system
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petermolnar
acegiak I disagree, the just click here should be XY as Service, maintained by people who do actually care
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acegiak
That's pretty much what I said
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petermolnar
I misunderstood then, sorry
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acegiak
appropriate support
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petermolnar
so, is anyone aware of a self-hosted OS, which is, similarly to Rasberry, trying to teach and push towards learning the rest behind it? Yunohost is not a bad start, but for me, their website is advocating and "it's just one click, anyone can do it" approach, not the "this is how you start, and click here to learn more"
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bear
i've been keeping an interest in some of the new micro kernels for that reason
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petermolnar
you need to expand that thought
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bear
they don't require intense sysadmin skills, would allow for easy-click app installs and could then be hosted on top of a robust/secure host os
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bear
pair them up with a backed-up data/file mount and you have something that is consumer friendly
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petermolnar
that is what docker is used for these days, which is even a worse security nightmare ( here, download this container image and run in, first pipe this bash from the internets to install prerequisites )
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bear
right - I'm not talking about docker tho because IMO it's too much like root access to a fleet of machines
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bear
but if we give app devs a micro kernel target
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bear
and an api to store configs
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bear
and an api to store data
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petermolnar
I mean I get it that the microkernel approach is really different
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bear
then they can write apps that can be securely hosted and migrated
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bear
without having to be sysadmins
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rMdes
just throwing this here : www.internetcu.be - it is the rasberry like arch I use to run some yunohost for friends
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petermolnar
I've seen this a few days ago, and I was impressed, especially that they are advocating an open hardware solution
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bear
5 years ago I thought small brick/pi/whatevs type devices would be key - something every house could have in their homes
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rMdes
& its also a nice "indieweb" gift to give out there: hey here's is your domain, your site, your data and your contacts/emails/agenda in one box, have fun !
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bear
yea, the cube idea is something i've been thinking about - paired up with the api's I was just talking about
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bear
yea, but it still suffers from a support issue IMO
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bear
in 5 yrs we would be dealing with cubes that haven't been updated in 5 yrs and are now hacked/pwnd
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bear
ugh - it's 0530 and the sun is rising - time for me to go to bed
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petermolnar
GOTO sleep
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bear
waves
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petermolnar
I went seriously offtopic with this argument, sorry about that
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rMdes
I need to run away, catch ya'll later
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rMdes
good night bear
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Loqi
see you in the morning!
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petermolnar
looking back on my long deleted tweets, trying to identify the first time I tried POSSE; it looks like Aug 2011. It didn't know the term and was referring to it as cross-posting, only to Twitter, and that idea failed miserably. I'm glad I've found indiewebcamp ~3 years after that :) ( why: I'm looking at /timeline which got me wondering how much behind I'd been with the same idea )
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petermolnar
I've hit an interesting wall that time: most of the people following me at silo X were following me elsewhere as well ( or my site itself ), thus POSSE was generating redundancy and noise; now I remember I never got to the bottom of this issue
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petermolnar
had anyone else had trouble with this?
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singpolyma
A little. My fiancee unfollowed my Twitter when I started posting everything to Facebook also
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singpolyma
but with facebook's algorithmic timeline, most users don't see most of my stuff anyway, so other overlapping followers haven't complained
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petermolnar
that algorithm wasn't always as bad as today; a few years ago most of the content was actually visible
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voxpelli
early on when Twitter was young and there were many competing microblogs, then duplicate content was a real problem
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voxpelli
following someone on two networks didn't really work as one got all their content twice then
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voxpelli
best case scenario would be a combined Twitter + IndieWeb reader that could deduplicate posts
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petermolnar
that's tricky, but not impossible; if link in silo content, check for endpoint link in indie site, if exists, drop
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petermolnar
if the user is the same, so a rel=me backcheck is needed
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petermolnar
( endpoint link = the very last in potential 301/302 redirect chain due to url shorteners )
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sknebel_
petermolnar: isn't that what rel-syndication is for, or did I misunderstand that? (haven't played with POSSE yet)
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petermolnar
it is, indeed, but I wouldn't rely solely on that
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@JohnnySoftware
RT @jgarber @mrcoulson Yes, they are! They’re at version 2 now (http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2) and are the foundation of many new IndieWeb technologies.
(twitter.com/_/status/705392940743524352)
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petermolnar
!tell tantek if I load your page with 3rd party content blocked, it fries Firefox with a script timeout message as chrome://global/content/bindings/videocontrols.xml:1523
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@jgmac1106
RT @kevinmarks “The closed web is winning “because it’s easier to use.”” - @dries http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2016/03/01/berkman-dries-buytaert/ #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/705399047541157888)
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@ecobytes
RT @kevinmarks “The closed web is winning “because it’s easier to use.”” - @dries http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2016/03/01/berkman-dries-buytaert/ #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/705401774341947392)
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@transforlab
RT @kevinmarks “The closed web is winning “because it’s easier to use.”” - @dries http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2016/03/01/berkman-dries-buytaert/ #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/705401774484525056)
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@fedwiki
RT @kevinmarks “The closed web is winning “because it’s easier to use.”” - @dries http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2016/03/01/berkman-dries-buytaert/ #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/705401774471970816)
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@OuiShareLabs
RT @kevinmarks “The closed web is winning “because it’s easier to use.”” - @dries http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2016/03/01/berkman-dries-buytaert/ #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/705401774425833472)
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@jgmac1106
@RikMende @kevinmarks @davewiner Find it difficult to imagine a world where webmentions, RSS, and #indieweb are not on the same team
(twitter.com/_/status/705410056418942976)
saurik, friedcell, j12t, begriffs, KartikPrabhu and marcthiele joined the channel
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@marcthiele
Oh btw … all links I post here are also available on my own website. http://marcthiele.com/links #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/705418428698468353)
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aaronpk
i used 2.2 instance hours over the free tier yesterday
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aaronpk
that cost me $0.11
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petermolnar
my server costs me 29€/month, so I believe you're paying much less than that
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aaronpk
sadly this is not the only server expense I have :P
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petermolnar
I was expecting that, but who knows? :)
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@TerminalPixel
@royhendo #indieweb should be the future, but only really suitable for nerdy, diy types at the moment
(twitter.com/_/status/705434871313928192)
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@RikMende
RT @jgmac1106 @RikMende @kevinmarks @davewiner Find it difficult to imagine a world where webmentions, RSS, and #indieweb are not on the same team
(twitter.com/_/status/705442001030881286)
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@RikMende
@jgmac1106 @kevinmarks precisely why after followed @davewiner progress with FIA the missing chunk is logically #indieweb for me #my2cens
(twitter.com/_/status/705442298004377601)
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@withknown
On the east coast? Believe in an open web? Indie Web Camp MIT is coming up on March 14th: http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/MIT #indieweb #edtech
(twitter.com/_/status/705449684400144384)
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@hexmasteen
RT @withknown On the east coast? Believe in an open web? Indie Web Camp MIT is coming up on March 14th: http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/MIT #indieweb #edtech
(twitter.com/_/status/705451080730210304)
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aaronpk
doh, just looked at the logs for xray
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aaronpk
"CURLOPT_FOLLOWLOCATION cannot be activated when an open_basedir is set" so that's why it's not working with aaron.pk
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snarfed
acegiak: re posse to G+, i've seen code that opens the G+ share box with your content pre-filled. still have to click "post" manually, but still mostly automated.
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snarfed
or you can try to get into their private API like known, wordpress, etc :P
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@jgmac1106
RT @withknown On the east coast? Believe in an open web? Indie Web Camp MIT is coming up on March 14th: http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/MIT #indieweb #edtech
(twitter.com/_/status/705454551462240257)
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gRegorLove
KartikPrabhu POSSEs to g+, not sure how.
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gRegorLove
Probably manually
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snarfed
until it hurts
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kylewm
just put it off until G+ shuts down. only a matter of time.
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snarfed
kylewm++
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Loqi
kylewm has 303 karma
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snarfed
what is site death prediction market
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "site death prediction market" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Fk
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /2016/MIT/Guest_List (+267) "another 2 RSVPs via eventbrite wow, so many"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
pertty nice the number of RSVPs we are getting from eventbrite for IWC MIT
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[jgarber]
Got my first pornspam webmention today. My little IndieWeb site is all grown up!
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Loqi
[jgarber]: tantek left you a message 1 day, 14 hours ago: would you say that FrancisCMS is easily installable by someone other than the creator(s)? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-01/line/1456889913545
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aaronpk
via *webmention*?!
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aaronpk
not pingback?
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snarfed
i'm very curious too
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snarfed
[jgarber]: was it bridgy? or native?
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snarfed
if native afaik it would be the first confirmed native webmention spam
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snarfed
mind sharing the link?
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[jgarber]
aaronpk snarfed The source was directly from xnxx.com (VERY NSFW) and it was native. I have a form on my post pages where someone can paste a URL so it could very well have come in that way than from, say, the command line or someone else's posting interface.
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aaronpk
oh so just comment form spam?
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[jgarber]
Odds are someone pasted that URL into the form here: https://sixtwothree.org/posts/launching-franciscms-onto-the-indieweb
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Loqi
[Jason Garber] Launching FrancisCMS onto the IndieWeb
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[jgarber]
aaronpk Essentially, yeah.
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voxpelli
[jgarber]: but did it actually validate then?
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aaronpk
ah it's a webmention form! interesting
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[jgarber]
@voxpelli: I didn’t bother validating once I saw the source.
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voxpelli
[jgarber]: thinking that your webmention receiver would automatically discard it upon failed validation, but perhaps not?
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[jgarber]
@voxpelli: My validation method still has some kinks in it, so I don’t delete non-validated webmentions. They stay unvalidated and don’t show up on the public side of my site.
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[jgarber]
* don’t delete invalid webmentions, that is.
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voxpelli
I see :)
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[jgarber]
tantek: I’d say FrancisCMS is of moderate difficulty for someone familiar with Rails. The documentation is _pretty_ thorough but does require some specific knowledge. shaners works with Rails (I believe) and might be a good judge of my “moderate difficulty” assessment and/or the quality of the documentation.
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[jgarber]
But it’s not “easy” like Known is easy.
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@dougiemchale
RT @ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 1
(twitter.com/_/status/705467017193758721)
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@forgottemplars
RT @ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 1
(twitter.com/_/status/705466420868554752)
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@deathwizard57
RT @ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 1
(twitter.com/_/status/705466399041392640)
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@WendyandCharles
ReadersGazette: BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 1
(twitter.com/_/status/705466371442925568)
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@ReadersGazette
BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 1
(twitter.com/_/status/705466277633134593)
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KartikPrabhu
gRegorLove: manual posse to G+
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voxpelli
just looked at my logs again, my WebMention endpoint still looks to have consistently around 30 active realtime streams on it
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voxpelli
really looking forward to getting some more time to spend on it
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gRegorLove
realtime streams?
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voxpelli
gRegorLove: so that WebMentions received can be pushed out to everyone currently viewing a site that uses its WebMention embed
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gRegorLove
Oh, interesting
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snarfed
[jgarber]: i'd be curious to know if it validated, ie if it linked to that page on your site correctly
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snarfed
if it did, then it's arguably the first native webmention spam, which is notable
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snarfed
(even if we don't know whether they submitted the form by hand or automatically)
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petermolnar
[jgarber] I'm interested as well, check if that source has the target url :)
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petermolnar
according to /timeline it was about a year between pingbacks and pingback spam, so it's about time for webmentions...
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voxpelli
the value one would get out of webmention is very limited right now though :P
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petermolnar
I know the spam problem was addressed with the idea of vouch, but has anyone came up with anything against the ddos/dos that could happen because there is too much remote data to process?
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aaronpk
dos and ddos are two very different problems
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petermolnar
normally it is, but I'm not referring to the results of many remote connections now
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aaronpk
which do you mean?
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petermolnar
eg. acception mentions is a queue if fine, that's a minor operation, not much cost
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voxpelli
I'm dealing with DoS in such a way that I'm throttling the lookup of source URL:s by domain
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petermolnar
but parsing the remote content is pretty expensive
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aaronpk
so you're talking about the DoS problem, not DDoS
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GWG
Afternoon
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voxpelli
and I do know how to scale up my fetching + parsing to handle probably a couple of hundred submissions a second – tried and tested in the real world
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petermolnar
voxpelli those are massive numbers
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aaronpk
where did you get that kind of traffic in real world cases?
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voxpelli
aaronpk: the firehose of Bloglovin ;)
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aaronpk
ah, not related to webmention?
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voxpelli
well, I'm using the same base parser in my webmention endpoint
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voxpelli
so if it ever becomes a problem I can just move it over to Amazon lambda and have it scale the way we did at Bloglovin
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voxpelli
the only dos problem I would have then would be the possibly dos:ing of my wallet :P
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@jmenglund03
Curious to see if there will be any intersections between #indieweb and upcoming #wpcampusorg...potential speaker topic?
(twitter.com/_/status/705478309157548032)
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Loqi
[indieweb] "On the east coast? Believe in an open web? Indie Web Camp MIT is coming up on March 14th: http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/MIT #indieweb #edtech" by Ben Werdmuller http://stream.withknown.com/2016/on-the-east-coast-believe-in-an-open-web-indie
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KartikPrabhu
app-only;dr
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aaronpk
about-page-mentions-ex-googler;dr
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aaronpk
no offense to ex-googlers here ;)
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aaronpk
is getting tired of the shiny-new-app launches and mentions it's made by ex-googlers thing
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kylewm
yes, "ex-googler" as an appeal to authority is b.s.
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gRegorLove
They should get together and make a startup ex-oogle
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petermolnar
lol: that hello.com is 503 for me; entering "is it up" in duckduckgo reveals duckduckgo has is [] up as a built-in feature now
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gRegorLove
What is duckduckgo?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "duckduckgo" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Fm
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gRegorLove
duckduckgo is a search engine https://duckduckgo.com
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loqi.me
created /duckduckgo (+79) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-03-03/line/1457035083673 and dfn added by gRegorLove"
(view diff)
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kylewm
"Stay beautiful" == I just threw up in my mouth
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petermolnar
interesting
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gregorlove.com
moved /duckduckgo to /DuckDuckGo "capitalization"
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petermolnar
that hello.com is only available is I go through a US proxy
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petermolnar
it throws an 503 from UK or Germany
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petermolnar
intentional I believe
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gregorlove.com
edited /DuckDuckGo (+40) "link, see also, period"
(view diff)
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KevinMarks
lol at Orkut emphasising ex-google engineers as the orignal orkut was running on windows on a box under his desk and it took ages to get it onto gogole infrastucture
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petermolnar
they had to rewrite it a little and now it's called G+ /s
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aaronpk
how many ex-googlers do we have here?
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kylewm
only 2 i'm aware of
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KevinMarks
orkut, buzz and I think G+ did all use the Shindig
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aaronpk
willnorris and bslatkin are still at google right?
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KevinMarks
me and Ryan?
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aaronpk
guess they don't count until they leave :P
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[jgarber]
snarfed @petermolnar Just curl’ed the source URL and there’s no link to my site in the markup. So definitely spam.
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petermolnar
ah, I was just about to celebrate the first webmention spam
shiflett joined the channel
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aaronpk
stashes away a bottle of champagne to break out when we get the first webmention spam
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sknebel_
once something wordpress-related discusses webmentions or something like them is included in wordpress, there are going to be "SEO experts" raving about it
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KevinMarks
thats a weird 500 page
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KevinMarks
it links to the medium top 100 page, which is down too
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gregorlove.com
edited /Medium (+27) "section placeholder"
(view diff)
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gRegorLove
Can someone with a Medium account expand /Medium#Exporting_your_data with actual links/instructions?
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KevinMarks
once it's up again
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petermolnar
where does the link go?
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petermolnar
the 'find something interesting...'? to another 500?
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aaronpk
to the top 100 list, which is on medium.com so it's also down
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gRegorLove
Heh. Medium's top 100 page loads for me
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gRegorLove
And the individual articles on there
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gRegorLove
But 500'd on a reload.
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petermolnar
"On an internet full of hurried, scruffy ballpoints, Medium is the web's fountain pen." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35709680
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gRegorLove
And it's currently out of ink. Sorry.
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petermolnar
article is from today, maybe everyone is exporting their stuff while they still can
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gregorlove.com
edited /Medium (+53) "/* Issues */ downtime, placeholder for image upload"
(view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de
edited /Medium (+179) "/* Exporting your data */ link to documentation"
(view diff)
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@krisshaffer
This is why the #IndieWeb and projects like Domain of One's Own are so important. https://twitter.com/krisshaffer/status/705487626963390465
(twitter.com/_/status/705487811848347648)
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sknebel_
added link to export documentation. Don't have a WP account, can't try what the export actually looks like
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gregorlove.com
edited /Medium (+168) "/* Downtime */"
(view diff)
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kevinmarks.com
edited /Medium (+421) "/* Exporting your data */"
(view diff)
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snarfed
oh man i missed some fun stuff here over lunch
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Loqi
[Nick Douglas] Orkut: The Joke
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gRegorLove
I had no idea the creator's name was actually Orkut
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gRegorLove
What is Orkut?
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Loqi
Orkut was a silo from Google that existed from 2004 to 2014 (see site-deaths) and was very popular in Brazil and India https://indiewebcamp.com/orkut
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@indiewebcamp
RT @withknown On the east coast? Believe in an open web? Indie Web Camp MIT is coming up on March 14th: http://indiewebcamp.com/2016/MIT #indieweb #edtech
(twitter.com/_/status/705499080751865856)
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petermolnar.eu
edited /Medium (+191) "/* Criticism */"
(view diff)
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gRegorLove
Wrong cite link, petermolnar. Links to the same page
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petermolnar.eu
edited /Medium (+14) "/* Criticism */"
(view diff)
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petermolnar
fixed, thanks
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gRegorLove
Wow, in the Medium export (from wiki) "they replace external links with a redirect to a /r/?url= link that obviously doesn't work locally or on a server without you adding code"
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sknebel
which is strange, since their pages don't seem to have that
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sknebel
(but I just checked in devtools, could be JS magic...)
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[shaners]
Loqi. I’ve missed you.
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aaronpk
totally forgot about tagboard!
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aaronpk
i wanna borrow some css from them for indienews :)
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snarfed
hey KartikPrabhu, looks like your site stopped advertising its webmention endpoint...?
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KartikPrabhu
yeah saw yesterday will fix tonight
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KartikPrabhu
no idea how that happened
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KartikPrabhu
i only discovered it due to Bridgy error messages from Twitter
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tantek.com
edited /projects (+347) "move FrancisCMS to Get Inspired per jgarber note about moderate difficulty, cite IRC. Also noted what dobrado requires."
(view diff)
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aaronpk
status URLs are live on webmention.io now :)
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snarfed1
aaronpk++
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Loqi
aaronpk has 88 karma
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aaronpk
they are ephemeral, lasting 3 days
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aaronpk
should be good enough for practical purposes tho
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snarfed
wmio had status pages before, right? what's new?
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aaronpk
nope never did!
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snarfed
oh i was thinking p3k
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aaronpk
yeah i was sad to lose that with the switch, since p3k doesn't receive its own webmentions anymore