#indiewebcamp 2016-01-27

2016-01-27 UTC
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kylewm DeltaWhy: in-between suggestion, you could work on making it easier to post to octopress instead :)
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DeltaWhy I don't need to do it from the ground up, but I want something I can hack on, which I think means it should be fairly small
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DeltaWhy kylewm, I'm considering it - basically have a separate web app that could update the octopress site
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DeltaWhy I tried to do something like that for a senior design project and it didn't go too well though
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snarfed hackability doesn't necessarily require small, just well designed and hack friendly
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snarfed eg kylewm recently migrated to known, which isn't small, but i think he'd say is definitely hack friendly
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@rrrrrrrix How to Edit the IndieWebCamp wiki with Emacs :EXPORT: (http://notes.whatthefuck.computer/1453852020.0-note.html) (twitter.com/_/status/692135868455391232)
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kylewm small is relative, definitely. it's not tiny but it's also not Wordpress. it's very literate and very hackable.
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notes.whatthefuck.computer edited /events/2016-01-27-homebrew-website-club (+94) "/* San Francisco */" (view diff)
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snarfed even wordpress is pretty hackable
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kylewm DeltaWhy: any particular language you prefer or dis-prefer?
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DeltaWhy definitely not a fan of wordpress - it's a security nightmare
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DeltaWhy I'm pretty fond of ruby but I'm not terribly picky on the language - python, javascript, or go would all be fine with me
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snarfed well, not necessarily is, but can e
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snarfed be
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kylewm DeltaWhy: https://indiewebcamp.com/gitpub is/was a micropub to jekyll shim ... that would let you write posts in e.g. https://quill.p3k.io
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kylewm and https://github.com/kylewm/flask-micropub (Python) or https://github.com/voxpelli/node-micropub-express are libraries you could use to build your own thing
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GWG I think I may have just talked WP Tavern into letting me submit a guest post about webmentions, pingbacks, and trackbacks.
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GWG I may ask for some proofreaders, if anyone is up for it.
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GWG I want to make the best argument possible.
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aaronpk my new site is really going to put peoples' authorship discovery code to the test
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GWG How so?
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aaronpk the author property of individual posts is just my home page URL (not an h-card), and there is always an h-card on the page with that URL
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aaronpk it's the very last case in the authorship discovery algorithm
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GWG Fun
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aaronpk and that is exciting about WP Tavern!
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GWG aaronpk: The request was a post that "that discusses why including webmentions in WordPress is a good idea, why fixing Trackbacks and Pingbacks is better than getting rid of them, and provide info on the specification."
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GWG I think I could have that pretty quickly.
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snarfed petermolnar: fixed https://facebook-atom.appspot.com/ . thanks again for the report!
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KevinMarks hm, do I ned to recreate my connection?
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@PCSpam eps comments on "Webmention" - https://t.co/JUxw4psvds (twitter.com/_/status/690601484103389185)
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sknebel mpfh. Something gets posted on HN and the HN-scraping spam blogs and twitter bots come out. There are quite a few ones that just spew out random HN comments, for whatever crazy SEO reason
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GWG abevigoda.com was finally updated.
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GWG I wonder if that counts as a site death
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Loqi [bridgy] Chet Woodside replied '@scottros Ya the codebase is 5 or 6 years old now.' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (https://twitter.com/cosmicblend/status/692158559346397184)
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Loqi [bridgy] Chet Woodside replied '@scottros I'm curious how did that whiskers tool play into what your group came ...' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (https://twitter.com/cosmicblend/status/692095144334483456)
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Loqi [bridgy] #ThatTechGirl replied '@scottros this looks great! I'd love to whiteboard a new site I'm launching! See...' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (https://twitter.com/libertymadison/status/691883944967553024)
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Loqi [bridgy] Scott Rosenberg replied '@cosmicblend we added it to our notes but didn't have time to explore closely! W...' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (https://twitter.com/scottros/status/692139531957583874)
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GWG tantek: Would you have time to proof something for me in the next day or so?
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GWG Making convincing arguments is a strength of yours.
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tantek sometimes :)
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Loqi tantek: gRegorLove left you a message 8 hours, 33 minutes ago: I like the table at the top of /2016/NYC/Guest_List. I'll update /2016/Guest_List based on that. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-26/line/1453841163729
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tantek GWG, feel free to also draft it on the wiki for collective review
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GWG tantek: That may not work. They've asked for exclusivity on this.
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GWG And to inform people, I'm tempted to give it to them.
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GWG Even though I do not like the idea.
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GWG Even though I've started to write it, I'm still waiting for clarification on the point as to whether that applies to commercial exclusivity or 100% exclusivity.
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sknebel GWG: time-limited exclusivity might also be an option. Gives them the initial eyeballs, but you can use it later
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GWG sknebel: I just want a copy on my own site. I don't care about money or traffic to my site.
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tantek GWG, I agree with sknebel, a short term embargo before you can post it on your own site is reasonable.
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@mothersele Why I left WhatsApp... http://www.darrenmothersele.com/blog/2016/01/27/why-i-left-whatsapp/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/692237262369771520)
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@jremmm RT @gdchamal les ayant trop de droits vont certainement aimer et détourner ce principe de #webmention :/ https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160112/ (twitter.com/_/status/692237739023060993)
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@ronald_istos RT @mothersele Why I left WhatsApp... http://www.darrenmothersele.com/blog/2016/01/27/why-i-left-whatsapp/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/692239612647968768)
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@WendyandCharles ReadersGazette: RT _CarolynReilly: For #selfpub #authors - 16 predictions for 2016 by DebbieYoungBN http://selfpublishingadvice.org/?p=168615 via indieauth… (twitter.com/_/status/692245189809868801)
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@Ron_Glick RT @WendyandCharles ReadersGazette: RT _CarolynReilly: For #selfpub #authors - 16 predictions for 2016 by DebbieYoungBN http://selfpublishingadvice.org/?p=168615 via indieauth… (twitter.com/_/status/692245348144775168)
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@JasonHalle RT @WendyandCharles ReadersGazette: RT _CarolynReilly: For #selfpub #authors - 16 predictions for 2016 by DebbieYoungBN http://selfpublishingadvice.org/?p=168615 via indieauth… (twitter.com/_/status/692245937809395712)
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@kevinmarks Last time he said that, I wrote this: http://epeus.blogspot.com/2008/12/cycling-to-new-layers-of-freedom.html - since then we've built #indieweb https://twitter.com/om/status/692158816197165057 (twitter.com/_/status/692248223654764545)
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pfefferle good morning
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cweiske hiho
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voxpelli morning :)
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@giofilo #Webmention: #HTML diventa #social | Edit http://blog.html.it/22/01/2016/webmention-html-diventa-social/?utm_content=buffer04f7f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer <a rel="webmention" href="..."> (twitter.com/_/status/692271596405428226)
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@LillianEdmiston RT https://twitter.com/giofilo/status/692271596405428226 #Webmention: #HTML diventa #social | Edit http://blog.html.it/22/01/2016/webmention-html-diventa-social/?utm_content=buffer04f7f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer <a rel="webmention" href="..."> (twitter.com/_/status/692273393228484608)
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petermolnar good morning; I've trying to go forward with my laziness and the flickr auto tagging is an impressive thing; is anyone doing any auto-tagging based on their content? because after a short thinking - and having an initial thought of making massive matrixes of what keywords should go with what existing tags - I realised that I'd always need learning algorithms for this, otherwise there's no benefit, but I'm not aware of any wordpress
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petermolnar plugins doing machine learning :)
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cweiske i've got a pull request for my bookmark manager open that implements auto tagging
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cweiske didn't look yet how it is implemented
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cweiske but it checks the currently used tags and tries to match them with the text of the to-be-bookmarked page
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cweiske so it does not invent new tags, only suggests/uses existing tags
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petermolnar I was thinking to go through all my posts, get the top X most common word out of the post and put those into an array for the tag added to the post; once done sort by reoccurring words and keep the first Y. And this is where grammar and the biliguality of my site kicks in.
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cweiske you'd need to eliminate stop words
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cweiske like "the"
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petermolnar yeah, that's not how Hungarian language works :D
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petermolnar so I'll either have to rely on external apis or become really smart
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cweiske what would help here is to filter out words that have a total frequency above a certain level
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cweiske the wortschatz project of the university of leipzig has such a database, http://wortschatz.uni-leipzig.de/abfrage/
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petermolnar cweiske to understand my issue: for English, it's not that bad. For Hungarian, for example, 'on something' is 'somethingon', which makes it a little hard to say where the end of a word is. hard to
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cweiske oh
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petermolnar and sometimes somethingon becomes somethingyon or somethon, gaining or losing more letters
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cweiske a bit like russian
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petermolnar or German
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cweiske then you need stemming :)
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sknebel petermolnar: maybe you could adapt e-mail filtering stuff, e.g. http://www.andreykurenkov.com/writing/organizing-my-emails-with-a-neural-net/
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petermolnar or just plain bayes filters
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petermolnar that's actually a nice idea, although I have not idea where to start
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petermolnar but I'll probably take a look
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petermolnar the more I think about it the more I believe that spam filters could be used for auto-tagging
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@Evontech #Joomla vs. #WordPress: A Comparison #CMS #webdesign #webdev #webdevelopment #indiedev #tech #indieweb https://twitter.com/Evontech/status/692322100015575041/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/692322100015575041)
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tantek petermolnar - I deployed very minimal auto-tagging on my notes/photos yesterday - turning plain text hashtags into p-category explicitly marked up tags.
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tantek very minimal, but it's a good place to start
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pfefferle petermolnar tantek I started a simple hashtag-to-tag generator for wordpress... perhaps it helps https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-hashtags
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petermolnar tantek that is not what I'm looking for; I'd like a match content by relevance to existing tags
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tantek pfefferle: interesting - that regex looks like it would match a lot of things!
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tantek how do you avoid matching # fragments inside URLs?
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petermolnar ^ or \s or >
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petermolnar url is excluded by that
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pfefferle it has to be a blank before and after the hash
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pfefferle s/hash/hashtag
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Loqi pfefferle meant to say: it has to be a blank before and after the hashtag
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tantek but you could have #*** as a hashtag for example?
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petermolnar https://regex101.com/r/eO4wR0/1
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pfefferle tantek no this would not work, but #***a ;)
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pfefferle tantek \b is checking for a word boundary, so it has to end with a number or a character
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pfefferle tantek ah, I meant someone wants to use #*** as a hashtag?!?
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pfefferle s/ I / you /
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Loqi pfefferle meant to say: tantek ah, you meant someone wants to use #*** as a hashtag?!?
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pfefferle petermolnar tantek alternatively https://regex101.com/r/eO4wR0/3
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petermolnar autotag-lazyness, level 1: if featured image has keywords in jpg meta, add those to the post; done
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petermolnar oh, ffs, wordpress
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petermolnar lovely wp-embedded-content hidden IFRAME inserted into my posts, because random oembed discovery
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@ebot70 Top hashtags for @anarchivist: #indiewebcamp #18thbrumaire #dplafest #edchat #facebook http://www.redaelli.org/matteo-blog/projects/ebottwitter/ (twitter.com/_/status/692366490071351297)
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brandonrozek Wordpress started inserting a lot of code into the front-end with the last release...
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petermolnar I noticed, and it's seriously pissing me off
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petermolnar actually, it's 4.4+
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petermolnar it was always bloated, but it's getting out of control with oembed, rest api, emoji and all that crap
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning all
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kylewm aaronpk: do you think micropub q=syndicate-to responses should support urlencoding like syndicate-to[0]=...&syndicate-to[1]=...?
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@68MiddleSt Homebrew Website Club tonight 6.30-7.30pm @68MiddleSt come along https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/692384646152196096)
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@Lottejackson RT @68MiddleSt Homebrew Website Club tonight 6.30-7.30pm @68MiddleSt come along https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/692385095269879812)
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ben_thatmustbeme ahoy tantek
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GWG tantek straight ahead. Hard to starboard.
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todrobbins ALBIN!
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todrobbins Uh… disregard… Wrong window :|
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ben_thatmustbeme SIMON! THEADORE!
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ben_thatmustbeme its been a long week for me
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GWG We can see that
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GWG Relax, don't let Ben turn into Been
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petermolnar it's be interesting to make a wordpress frontpage with default theme content to metadata ratio comparison over the years
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petermolnar a long time ago - unless it was a copy-paste from MS Word - a blog entry usually had more content than meta, I think this can be considered a dead approach nowadays
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aaronpk kylewm: you don't need the numeric index there
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kylewm I know you don't need them, but should they be supported since that's what php's http_build_query returns?
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aaronpk oh right ha
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aaronpk well technically any server-side framework that understands that syntax will turn it back into the data structure you'd expect anyway
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aaronpk I had to do this for similar reasons: https://github.com/aaronpk/php-multipart-encoder#background
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@adactio RT @68MiddleSt Homebrew Website Club tonight 6.30-7.30pm @68MiddleSt come along https://indiewebcamp.com/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/692393975756496897)
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@krisshaffer Webmentions are back on my blog & I've installed @hypothes_is for on-site annotations. Let me know what you think! http://kris.shaffermusic.com (twitter.com/_/status/692394041795686400)
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@dr_jdean RT @krisshaffer Webmentions are back on my blog & I've installed @hypothes_is for on-site annotations. Let me know what you think! http://kris.shaffermusic.com (twitter.com/_/status/692394183298936832)
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kylewm "any server-side framework..." unfortunately is not true of python. urllib.parse_qs() will consolidate keys with the same name into a list (e.g. "syndicate-to" or "syndicate-to[]"), but it sees the keys with indices as different keys
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kylewm I found a library that does a nice job of it though: https://github.com/aventurella/pyquerystring
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aaronpk strange
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@RianVDM @nicharry Until they shut down, and then? Why not POSSE instead? https://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture (twitter.com/_/status/692405414944616448)
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@RianVDM @nicharry Until they shut down, and then? Why not POSSE instead? https://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/692405663461322752)
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bret kylewm: down with the stdlib!
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bret ;)
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GWG What is the coolest thing you can do with webmentions? Still thinking about how to sell it to the WordPress community
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "coolest thing you can do with webmentions" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10CV
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kylewm The coolest thing is you can do with webmentions is send replies from one site to another.
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gRegorLove Federated commenting with a comment display that's superior to pingback
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kylewm Thanks a lot Loqi
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Loqi you're welcome
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gRegorLove Haha
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Loqi hehe
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aaronpk you've got an extra "is" in there
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kylewm aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 63 karma
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GWG But you could theoretically do all that with pingbacks.
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GWG I tried to address in my first draft why the protocol is better and then address why the output of current protocols is horrible and what could be done.
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gRegorLove It's better because no XML
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singpolyma hehe
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GWG Simpler to implement, more complete implementation.
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gRegorLove I think /Vouch is worth mentioning, too. It's an extension, but one that's come up relatively early in the process. Learning from past mistakes with pingback ddos.
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gRegorLove I'm not aware of something similar for pingback, hypothetical or implemented.
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GWG No. But I still consider presentation separate from protocol.
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gRegorLove I meant a Vouch for pingback, not presentation.
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GWG I don't think anyone should try that.
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gRegorLove Not suggesting they do. Answering your question why wm is better.
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GWG I just wonder about the response.
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adactio Does anyone know of a working h-feed to RSS (or Atom) service? i.e. you give it the URL of your microformatted site and it generates a feed on the fly.
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message 1 week ago: do you know when the first Brighton HWC was? And how many were held last year? Can you edit https://indiewebcamp.com/2015-review#Homebrew_Website_Club with that info? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-19/line/1453238100634
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 1/20 at 7:21pm: is there a Homebrew Website Club Brighton next week 2016-01-27? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2016-01-27-homebrew-website-club#Where http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-20/line/1453346516626
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snarfed adactio: sure! https://granary-demo.appspot.com/?input=html
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adactio snarfed: sweet! Thank you.
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aaronpk huh
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aaronpk snarfed: in "html" mode is that parsing mf2?
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kylewm snarfed: do you use that to follow people who don't publish feeds?
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aaronpk it seems to be picking up some stray bits. look how "Portland" shows up in the post content: https://granary-demo.appspot.com/url?input=html&output=atom&url=https%3A%2F%2Findiewebcat.com%2F
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snarfed aaronpk: yes
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snarfed kylewm: not really, i don't know many of those
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calumryan adactio: I’m just putting together a slide for my talk on IW tomorrow about the last Brighton Web Camp – I remember you implemented posting with SMS via Twilio, does that still work?
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adactio calumryan: yes, indeed. I don't use it that much. Sometimes when I'm in another country where data is expensive. But yeah, it's working a treat.
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snarfed aaronpk: yup. it renders some structured data like location in content
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aaronpk oh that's intentional!
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aaronpk i thought it was a bug that it was somehow thinking my location markup was inside the content
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snarfed pretty much all of these mappings (eg mf2 => atom) are complicated and underspecified, so granary definitely includes lots of judgment calls
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/28 could help, but i'm not holding my breath
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calumryan adactio: great! I found your video demo of it. Would be good to show that at the talk if that’s ok?
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aaronpk yeah totally
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aaronpk i hadn't considered putting the location in the post though, that's interesting
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adactio calumryan: that would be great!
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snarfed aaronpk: most all of the judgment calls so far were driven by making https://twitter-atom.appspot.com/ look good and complete in feed readers
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aaronpk cool
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aaronpk well I am just glad there isn't something wrong with my new mf2 markup
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snarfed so it's lopsided so far, but comprehensive at least
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snarfed heh
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snarfed (er, twitter-atom and friends, that is)
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@markwunsch 📷 I hit my goal for @indiewebcamp: I set up my POSSE system so I can publish photo posts to Tumblr 👉 http://blog.markwunsch.com/post/138163352260/possephoto#_=_ (twitter.com/_/status/692420530167767040)
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@anarchivist RT @markwunsch 📷 I hit my goal for @indiewebcamp: I set up my POSSE system so I can publish photo posts to Tumblr 👉 http://blog.markwunsch.com/post/138163352260/possephoto#_=_ (twitter.com/_/status/692422573959860224)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2016/MIT/Guest_List (+134) "/* RSVPs from other sites */" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2016/MIT/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /2016/MIT/Guest_List (+297) "/* RSVPs from other sites */ add FB rsvp" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme well, we have 3 rsvps from outside of current indiewebbers
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ben_thatmustbeme yay
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@PCSpam alistproducer2 comments on "Webmention" - https://t.co/yXCV4rxsnb (twitter.com/_/status/690681282871848960)
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@PCSpam jeena comments on "Webmention" - https://t.co/UXbD0z9fCL (twitter.com/_/status/690646419888291840)
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Jeena If you're near Gothenburg in Sweden next week come by and listen to my talk about the IndieWeb on the 4th https://www.eventbrite.com/e/foss-gbg-om-indieweb-tickets-20911762645
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[shaners] Hi channel.
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[shaners] I haven’t read anything in channel since before IWC NYC. Any thing major I should scroll back for?
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tantek all the IWC NYC stuff!
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tantek some of it was captured in etherpads - now all archived to the wiki thanks to tommorris
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tantek tommorris++
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Loqi tommorris has 89 karma
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tantek all linked to from the schedule: /2016/NYC/Schedule
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[shaners] thanks
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@NikkiJParker Want to know how to #OwnYourData? Let @Covata show you how! https://vimeo.com/153267089 #security #RSA2016 #datasecurity (twitter.com/_/status/692484088398233601)
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snarfed #ownyourdata has seemed pretty low signal for us here for a while. aaronpk i wonder if we should drop it from the keyword list
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aaronpk yeah true
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aaronpk i wish i could add a search for "micropub" in advance of the release tomorrow but there's too much talk about actual pubs on that hashtag
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aaronpk (btw the first public working draft of micropub is going to be released on w3.org tomorrow!)
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[shaners] Congrats!
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[shaners] micropub++
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Loqi micropub has 3 karma
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@Elena33576610 RT @CarterCole https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-webmention-20160112/ Do yall want to see this implemented? #SEO (twitter.com/_/status/692491473057660933)
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