#indiewebcamp 2016-01-17

2016-01-17 UTC
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aaronpk I haven't bothered to take a look at it yet
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aaronpk well I did briefly but didn't see anything obvious
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KartikPrabhu1 aaronpk: I like how your "load more" button also changes the URL state. Nicely done
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aaronpk :D
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aaronpk it's pretty great seeing all my actual content in the new site!
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aaronpk okay! I just finished notes, videos, photos and replies!
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aaronpk and reposts!
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aaronpk 10 types down, 16 to go
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Loqi !calc 10 types down, 16 to go
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matrrix So presumably ownyourgram works by sending webmentions to your site?
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KartikPrabhu wow! you had 26 different post-types!
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aaronpk matrrix: no, it sends micropub requests
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aaronpk which includes the photo and video as a file upload
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matrrix what is micropub?
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matrrix Loqi pls :(
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Loqi it'll be ok
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Loqi Micropub is an open API standard that is used to create posts on one's own domain using third-party clients https://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub
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matrrix ah thx :)
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matrrix Interesting
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: kinda, I wouldn't call all of these post types anymore. for example "reply" was its own type
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matrrix so for a static site generator you'd need a small stub server to take micropub requests and generate the static source or something
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aaronpk but if a reply contained a photo, then it fell under the photo post type. and this is the weirdness of explicit post types :)
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aaronpk matrrix: yep exactly! a few people have done that
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KartikPrabhu yes... i think not having explicit post-types is a very good idea. keep it simple
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matrrix aaronpk: interesting, thanks :)
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gRegorLove Was there a Bridgy change recently to remove the "liked this" as an explicit p-name?
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kylewm gRegorLove: no, not intentionally
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kylewm got a link?
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gRegorLove https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/facebook/27301982/10101970668845904/10152552936582019
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gRegorLove I should fix my implementation to not rely on it for likes, anyway, but it's giving me that "tag.facebook.com..." stuff currently.
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Loqi agreed.
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snarfed kylewm gRegorLove: maybe side effect of https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/591#issuecomment-170315503 ?
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gRegorLove Shh
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gRegorLove Loqi: Update my impelementation
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Loqi who, me?
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kylewm snarfed: likely
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gRegorLove And my spelling
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snarfed interesting, i wonder if that's some mf2 algorithm. there's no e-content or p-name, so it takes the first text, which is the uid...?
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snarfed anyway, yeah, sorry gRegorLove. we may have to recommend only using explicit e-content from bridgy, and generating your own otherwise
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gRegorLove Think it's the plain text of the h-entry
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snarfed right
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snarfed (inside p-uid)
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gRegorLove s'ok. Just a prompt to put my article 'likes' in a list as on my notes.
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gRegorLove snarfed: Not just the p-uid
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snarfed gRegorLove: that's the only place i see it
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gRegorLove I meant, the parsed content isn't just what's in the p-uid
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snarfed well, .h-entry > .p-uid, so i guess we're both right :P
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snarfed oh, sure, also the h-card
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gRegorLove The name value I got from that was "tag:facebook.com,2013:10101970668845904_liked_by_10152552936582019\n \n \n \n \n Chris Magnusson\n \n\n https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/27301982\/posts\/10101970668845904#liked-by-10152552936582019"
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gRegorLove Already fixed on my end. :)
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snarfed sorry for the breakage!
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gRegorLove Experimenting with limiting the number of 'likers' shown on articles with a link to expand it, similar to Facebook: http://gregorlove.com/2016/01/fifteen-things-i-did-in-2015/#responses
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gRegorLove (requires js)
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aaronpk ooh
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aaronpk very nice
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aaronpk next you should tailor the order of the list based on who's reading it ;)
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gRegorLove haha
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snarfed hah, merrily hand waving through "who's reading it" :P
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gRegorLove With a nag "It looks like you haven't liked this yet"
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aaronpk gRegorLove++
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Loqi gRegorLove has 48 karma
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aaronpk snarfed: nah! indieauth login of course!
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snarfed oh sure, obviously. i just expect uptake would be...um...low :P
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aaronpk maybe a better job for a /reader
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: do you do a JS data-request to fetch the others?
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KartikPrabhu gRegorLove: consider using CSS for that show/hide
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KartikPrabhu http://www.lottejackson.com/learning/building-a-css-toggle-feature-with-checked-and-flexbox
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aaronpk awesome
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KartikPrabhu no actual need for flexbox, see it in action here: https://kartikprabhu.com/papers
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aaronpk bookmarkd
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KartikPrabhu if you are not requesting new data using JS, then using JS for show/hide is overkill.
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KartikPrabhu is thinking of ways to use that for marginalia instead of JS based toggle ;)
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aaronpk is learning all sorts of new CSS tricks lately
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aaronpk which makes sense since my CSS knowledge was for the most part last updated in 2008
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aaronpk darn, I just realized when I imported all my Strava rides, I didn't save the permalink as a syndication URL
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KartikPrabhu hopefully you have the old copies
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aaronpk well I have all the data in my site, and it's all still on Strava, but they aren't linked
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aaronpk and I didn't want to write a Strava import for this process, so i'm moving the data from my old site to my new site
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aaronpk I think I don't care enough about Strava to fix this right now
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@CaptainKurtis @fowlslegs @Arcadian_O @dmytri @ioerror I was using Silo in #indiewebcamp sense. http://indiewebcamp.com/silo Signal can whitelist, but doesn't. (twitter.com/_/status/688563425757282307)
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kylewm snarfed: we definitely don't want name = "liked this" anymore? I think it'd probably be good to set the name to "" if not.
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@callovarne RT @aaronpk Happy to announce the W3C Social Web Working Group published the First Public Working Draft of the Webmention spec! https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/688595606357450752)
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tantek hmm, seems like per that @CaptainKurtis tweet we should update https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_silo per indiewebcamp.com/silo
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tantek and linked from there, what bizzaro parallel universe did this document come from?!? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metadata_publishing
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tantek trying manual Bridgy Publish to Flickr
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tantek manual Bridgy Publish POSSE to Flickr result: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tantek/23803704613/
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tantek initial anaysis, hashtags from photo title did not automatically make it to Flickr tags
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tantek.com edited /Flickr (+438) "/* Bridgy Publish POSSE */ update! lots of support added, noted a few limitations with feature request issues" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Flickr (+0) "/* POSSE to Flickr */ Bridgy Publish and backfeed can be used for how to, note backfeed also supported since 2015-09-17" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Flickr (+400) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ POSSED" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /User:Petermolnar.eu (+142) (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /User:Ozten.com (+33) "adding user to Category:WordPress_Examples based on /WordPress/Examples" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /User:Notizblog.org (+33) "adding user to Category:WordPress_Examples based on /WordPress/Examples" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /User:Snarfed.org (+33) "adding user to Category:WordPress_Examples based on /WordPress/Examples" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /User:ShaneHudson.net (+33) "adding user to Category:WordPress_Examples based on /WordPress/Examples" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /User:Acegiak.net (+136) "adding user to Category:WordPress_Examples based on /WordPress/Examples" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /User:David.shanske.com (+34) "adding user to Category:WordPress_Examples based on /WordPress/Examples" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /User:Erinjorichey.com (+33) "adding user to Category:WordPress_Examples based on /WordPress/Examples" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /User:Christopheducamp.com (+33) "adding user to Category:WordPress_Examples based on /WordPress/Examples" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /User:Crystalbeasley (+33) "adding user to Category:WordPress_Examples based on /WordPress/Examples" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+606) "/* auto POSSE photos to Flickr */ why posse to flickr, improved details on how, note manual POSSE attempt for reference" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /WordPress/Development (-439) "removing obsolete data" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /WordPress/Examples (-493) "removing obsolete data" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /WordPress/Plugins (+211) "/* Webmention Support */" (view diff)
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tantek petermolnar: why the use of Category:WordPress_Examples ? Everywhere else on the wiki we merely keep lists of Examples inline
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petermolnar the inline examples needs constant gardening; I'm yet to remove any, because I can't make this decision, but the wiki could get much cleaner, if the example descriptions were on the user pages only and it'd be referenced by the category
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petermolnar at least this is how I'd like to do my relations to the indie blocks
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tantek that is even more vulnerable to bitrot
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tantek because the individual user pages are even less frequently updated
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tantek so depending on them more is a flawed approach
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petermolnar I seriously disagree here
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petermolnar spreading semi-copy paste all over the wiki of my implementation is garbage
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tantek it's not a matter of opinion, it is trivial to prove by looking t the edit histories of user: pages vs. topic pages
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petermolnar are you comparing the entry of the user example edits on the topic page to the user page or the generic edits on a topic?
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tantek s/t the/at the/
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Loqi tantek meant to say: it's not a matter of opinion, it is trivial to prove by looking at the edit histories of user: pages vs. topic pages
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petermolnar because the latter is pretty unfair
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petermolnar yes, topic edits are frequent
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tantek doesn't matter fair or not the incredibly low frequency of user page edits, *especially* by people other than the user, proves the point
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petermolnar inline examples are regularly forgotten
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petermolnar inline example of MY implementation vs my page
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petermolnar I'm not surprised no one else is editing it
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tantek where was the inline example of your implementation?
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tantek unfortunately the wordpress documentation on the wiki is in general out of date
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tantek I ran into that problem myself
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tantek with the plugins, what plugins to install etc.
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tantek what the page said vs. what people said in IRC was totally different
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tantek the problem you are seeing is one with the /WordPress/** pages
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petermolnar how about the 'http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress' page?
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tantek not topics in general
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tantek yes exactly
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tantek that page was horribly out of date
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tantek and I had to fix it - as a non-wordpress user
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petermolnar ? i honestly thought that is the most up to date one
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tantek this is my point, the flaw you are finding is not about topics vs user pages
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tantek it is now
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tantek only because I edited it early this year
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tantek see https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=Getting_Started_on_WordPress&action=history
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petermolnar tantek what I change is that I removed my explicit details from a few topic pages; most were out of date already, and instead, put a reference there; I done this only for myself
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tantek that's totally fine
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petermolnar but is this is discouraged, we need a howto for the wiki
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tantek it was the massmodification of other pages with the category: thing that I was questionining
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tantek we do have a how to for the wiki
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tantek what is wikify?
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Loqi wikifying is the practice of putting stuff on the wiki, or something in particular on the wiki https://indiewebcamp.com/wikify
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petermolnar could this be put on the front page, please? I've been attending to this channel for a while, and never thought of searching for 'wikify'
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tantek putting it on the front page won't help - that assumes everyone reads everything on the front page
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tantek which, when it gets more crowded, people read even less of what is already there
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tantek we did a lot of work to simplify the front page, deliberately
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tantek also - nearly every week someone here chats to a new person about wikifying their itches etc.
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petermolnar.eu edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (+123) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /User:Petermolnar.eu () "(-595)" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /WordPress (+6) "/* Getting started */" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /Getting_Started_on_WordPress (-24) "redundant line" (view diff)
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petermolnar.eu edited /WordPress/Plugins (+65) "/* POSSE Plugins */" (view diff)
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tantek Hmm - I'm suspicious of whether FB really keeps photos "forever" or not.
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snarfed tantek: why?
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tantek I'm looking at old (2 yrs +) public photo albums from a public page and they appeared to not load
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tantek looks like they loaded like a *minute* later
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snarfed 2y isn't very old, i'm guessing it's something else
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snarfed eg here's one from 2006: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=514986660443&set=a.728033318233.2303940.212038&type=3&theater
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kylewm.com edited /Flickr (+127) "/* Bridgy Publish POSSE */ note posse tags already supported" (view diff)
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tantek ooh! ok, that might enough for me to auto-markup hashtags in my notes with p-category
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tantek hmm
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tantek thanks kylewm
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tantek I'm totally about to edit a two year old note post to put the photo at the top, thus making it a photo post
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tantek fixing the link to the img (which broke since I posted it 2 years ago - thanks fb cdn), and linking to the page the photo is in
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tantek snarfed, here's the fb cdn URL which broke: https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1506504_393064864163346_1487198114_n.jpg
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snarfed ok!
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tantek in case you have any insight into why that may have happened
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snarfed nope, only that bugs happen, and they usually don't mean anything deeper
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snarfed (sometimes! but not usually.)
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@georgkaser Interessanter Beitrag übers #Indieweb von Matthias Pfefferle im Deutschlandradio http://breitband.deutschlandradiokultur.de/dezentralisiert-euch/ (twitter.com/_/status/688771932188217344)
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tantek FYI this is the post I edited to move the photo to the top (thus making it a "photo") post http://tantek.com/2014/017/t1/first-novemberprojectsf-hillsforbreakfast
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+141) "/* auto POSSE photos to Flickr */ note I can make progress by implementing some #-hashtag detection in CASSIS auto_link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Flickr (-6) "/* Bridgy Publish POSSE */ tags supported, narrow what is lacking" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm++ for adding p-category detection/tagging support to Bridgy Publish to Flickr!
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Loqi kylewm has 285 karma
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+177) "/* auto POSSE photos to Flickr */ apparently my next Flickr POSSE will be a video" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2015/ (+398) "stub from last year's" (view diff)
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aaronpk woohoo! done with car2go/bike/runs import script now!
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kylewm does anyone know if https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2-shim still works with twitter?
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kylewm aaronpk++ nice! gotta be getting close now?
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Loqi aaronpk has 55 karma
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GWG I use it, but not sure regardless
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aaronpk getting close! remaining post types: eat/drink, flight/train, pushups, sleep, weight, presentations and collections
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tantek.com edited /2015-review (+1541) "stub a few more sections with some info to start" (view diff)
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kylewm GWG: to be clear, you use php-mf2-shim but don't know whether it works?
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GWG Correct.
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kylewm hehe ok
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tantek see this is why I'm going to restore that image on testing
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tantek.com edited /selfdogfood (+63) "Since yes, we tend to do this a lot in the indieweb, keeping the meme image. Undo revision 24531 by [[Special:Contributions/Veganstraightedge.com|Veganstraightedge.com]] ([[User talk:Veganstraightedge.com|talk]])" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, in your honor I've restored this meme image: https://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood#testing_your_code_in_production
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tantek ;)
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tantek.com edited /selfdogfood (+33) "/* testing your code in production */ float" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Template:IndieWebCamp (+80) "fix link, 2016 IndieWeb Summit is being planned, and more" (view diff)
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aaronpk [✓] weight
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GWG aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 56 karma
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aaronpk next up i'm turning "pushups" into a generic "workout" post
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aaronpk also making extensive use of h-measure for these things
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@zeldman Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/688791904356581376)
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[shaners] What is h-measure?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "h-measure" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BX
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[shaners] http://microformats.org/wiki/h-measure
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aaronpk http://microformats.org/wiki/measure
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aaronpk ah here are the mf2 examples http://microformats.org/wiki/measure-brainstorming
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@ErikBernskiold RT @zeldman Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/688793440918831104)
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aaronpk I am doing this: http://microformats.org/wiki/measure-brainstorming#Proposal:_h-measure_named_with_p-.2A
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tantek expect a bunch more traffic from that Zeldman tweet
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tantek shaners, there is no h-measure - nothing has been properly developed yet
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tantek nor hmeasure for that matter even historically
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@steve_e RT @zeldman Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/688793893584896000)
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@guideagoldfish RT @zeldman Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/688794096371023872)
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@optimiced RT @zeldman Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/688794131305463811)
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@adactio RT @zeldman Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/688794687587627008)
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tantek ^^^ importance of a tweetable definition!
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tantek what is site-deaths?
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aaronpk well look forward to some examples of h-measure in the wild :)
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Loqi Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking their content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly https://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths
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aaronpk tantek: ha that makes me want to add a tweet button to pages that have a short enough dfn
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tantek aaronpk: OMS
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tantek and by that you mean a *post* /web-action that falls back to a Tweet button, right? ;)
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aaronpk naturally
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tantek what is wikify?
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Loqi wikifying is the practice of putting stuff on the wiki, or something in particular on the wiki https://indiewebcamp.com/wikify
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aaronpk i forgot that twitter also calls it "web intent" https://dev.twitter.com/web/tweet-button/web-intent
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tantek legacy naming due to the Google attempt at doing so
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tantek they're tweet actions :P
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tantek Twitter also conflates the pop-up "dialog" as the "web intent" as well
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@aTamsSokari RT @zeldman Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/688796136300228608)
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aaronpk he edited the dfn and removed "their" in order to make it fit on twitter
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aaronpk it looks like the <indie-action> tag doesn't have a way to autofill text http://indiewebcamp.com/webactions
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petermolnar.eu edited /Flickr (-242) (view diff)
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tantek what do you mean by autofill the text?
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aaronpk twitter's button lets the site suggest tweet text
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tantek hey petermolnar did you mean to delete my previous edits?
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petermolnar what?
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petermolnar no
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tantek I'm sensing an edit collision
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tantek check your diff above ^^^
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petermolnar crap
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petermolnar sorry
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petermolnar fixing it
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tantek np, it happens. thanks! :)
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Loqi uhoh
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tantek lol
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voxpelli aaronpk: would that be part of the button rather than part of the article metadata?
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aaronpk i suppose your site could look for p-summary
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petermolnar.eu edited /Flickr (+15) (view diff)
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voxpelli aaronpk: thinking similar data is often needed for Micropub syndication, right?
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voxpelli Personally I try to avoid prefix led tweet texts to some degree as I find it better to encourage personal tweets
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petermolnar why is there not edit lock on the wiki?
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voxpelli Maybe include title, but not much else
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tantek petermolnar: because optimism!
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tantek :D
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@Jekrb RT @zeldman Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/688798150732062721)
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@georgkaser What is #webmention? (twitter.com/_/status/688798358325055493)
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tantek ^^^ Loqi you really ought to respond to those on Twitter ;)
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Loqi grins profusely
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petermolnar oh, that would generate a massive storm :)
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petermolnar what is blockchain?
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tantek not really, not many folks ask such short what is questions of jargon
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Loqi blockchain is a weapon used in the middle ages composed of a block shaped striking head attached to a handle by a flexible rope, strap, or chain https://indiewebcamp.com/blockchain
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/scratch/tweet-button.mov.gif
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@seesee RT @zeldman Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/688799513411203072)
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@sergioacosta RT @zeldman Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/688799613676056577)
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voxpelli aaronpk: Sharing quotes like that is a good use case for indie-action prefilled messages, didn't think about that
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tantek.com edited /wikifying (+1546) "Define jargon, Tweetable definitions" (view diff)
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tantek what is jargon?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "jargon" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BY
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aaronpk in order to do that with Loqi, he would have to search using the streaming API for "what is", and then pare down the results for from there
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tantek aaronpk: or vice versa, just pare down the existing streaming API search for "what is "
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tantek instead of having Loqi answer all what is questions, only what is questions about what he already searches for!
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tantek jargon is a specific unobvious concept, or re-use of a word to mean something other than its common meaning.
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aaronpk that's the problem
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loqi.me created /jargon (+135) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-17/line/1453057643777 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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tantek what is the problem?
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Loqi The problem is that when you ask what is the problem, you need to be more specific https://indiewebcamp.com/problem
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tantek :D
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aaronpk there's too many wiki pages for Loqi to search for "what is webmention" "what is jargon" etc
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tantek that's what I'm saying, only support it for the current set of terms that Loqi listens for, e.g. webmention, micropub, indieweb, indiewebcamp etc.
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aaronpk ah I see
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aaronpk thought you meant what Loqi listens for on IRC
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tantek I was thinking MVH - minimum viable helpfulness (or humor ;) )
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tantek so if someone tweets what is term-that-Loqi-searches-Twitter-for
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@manualfordesign RT @zeldman Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/688800685408817152)
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tantek then Loqi answers
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aaronpk well a quick twitter search for those turns up about one tweet each, ever
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tantek aww
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tantek.com edited /wikifying (+0) "/* Tweetable definitions */ typo link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (-6) "dfn -their, per Zeldman improvement" (view diff)
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aaronpk [✓] pushups
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GWG Trying to figure out Venue properties. Looking at the venue page in the wiki
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tantek.com edited /why (+0) "6th. yes we should do this!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+106) "/* Summit */ Topics: update [[why]] definition!" (view diff)
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@dduncil RT @zeldman Site deaths are when sites go offline, taking content and permalinks with them, and breaking the web accordingly. http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/688805887780126721)
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tantek wonder if there will be a noticeable traffic spike today or not from that
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GWG What is the tendency? Revisiting the same venues, or regularly creating more?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "tendency" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10BZ
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kylewm happy to report php-mf2-shim works and is amazing
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GWG kylewm: Even the Facebook one?
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tantek what is php-mf2-shim?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "php-mf2-shim" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10B_
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tantek GWG, I would guess that 90%+ of my checkins are to venues I've been to before.
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tantek obviously that % starts small and likely grows until it approaches some asymptote
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GWG For me, I must often use location properties when visiting interesting places, over checking in to my local hangout.
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kylewm GWG: I didn't test Facebook
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GWG kylewm: It is more of a permissions issue. Twitter doesn't require an application ID to read a page.
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kylewm no I don't think Facebook works
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kylewm "Call to a member function getAttribute() on null"
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GWG kylewm: I wonder what else we can shimmy.
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kylewm I've basically given up on doing anything with facebook in general unless I have to
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GWG kylewm: I only asked because those are the two shims in there
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tantek what do people think of IG's hashtags that can include any emoji character?
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tantek I'm looking at adding hashtag auto-p-category markup to CASSIS auto_link and leaning towards only Twitter-style hashtags
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tantek that is, not supporting detection of hashtag emojis
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tantek also is there any length limit to hashtags?
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singpolyma how do you decide whih printable characters are not allowed?
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singpolyma s/whih/which
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Loqi singpolyma meant to say: how do you decide which printable characters are not allowed?
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Zegnat The only problem I see with emojis in hashtags is the same as with punctuation in hashtags: things might be included as part of the tag that the writer did not intend to be included.
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tantek singpolyma: thinking more which *are* allowed
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tantek Zegnat, yes that's a good reason
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singpolyma Do people use emoji as punctutation often? They're more like pictograms in use I see </anecdotal>
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tantek thinking of limiting length to 139 chars :P
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Zegnat I personally end a lot of texts with an emoji to show the mood (and thus context) of the thought
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tantek singpolyma there are emoji punctuation like ❗️❓”¼ï¸â‰ï¸â”❕
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tantek what is mood?
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Loqi mood is sometimes expressed explicitly in or about a post, by the post author https://indiewebcamp.com/mood
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tantek Zegnat could you add an example/link or two of yours doing that to ^^^
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Zegnat Not presently, as my Facebook is pretty locked down on the privacy settings. But I bet I could find some on the public web. I will have a look around
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aaronpk [✓] food
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aaronpk [✓] drink
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tantek huh: https://www.hashtags.org/platforms/twitter/what-characters-can-a-hashtag-include/
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kylewm what is G5?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "G5" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Ba
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kylewm asking because indieweb/php-mf2 is "Copyright (c) 2013 G5"
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tantek also: https://support.twitter.com/articles/20170082?lang=en "Your Promoted Trend name length cannot exceed ~20 characters. Since not every character is the same width, your actual character limit will vary."
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tantek is that Barnaby's thingZ?
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tantek s/thingZ/thing
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Loqi tantek meant to say: is that Barnaby's thing?
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tantek also interesting: https://moz.com/blog/how-hashtags-work-on-twitter-instagram-google-plus-pinterest-facebook-tumblr-and-flickr
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kylewm G5 is https://github.com/G5
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loqi.me created /G5 (+54) "prompted by kylewm https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-17/line/1453060609337 and dfn added by kylewm" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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kylewm which does not appear to be a barnaby thing
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tantek ok that's odd
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tantek nor is there anything "mf2" in their repos
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kylewm looks like it was copy/pasted from the Ruby parser
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tantek kylewm: possible name collision?
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kylewm which was under G5 until shaners moved it
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tantek but it's php?
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tantek shaners, can you help with this?
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tantek.com edited /hashtags (+728) "Limitations - summary" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /hashtags (-3) "/* Limitations */ -*" (view diff)
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tantek ok I'm going with /#[_a-zA-Z0-9]>{1,139}/
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kylewm /#\w{1,239/ is a little shorter
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tantek wat
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kylewm sorry /#\w>{1,139}/
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Zegnat Any reason, if you want to go with Twitter’s syntax, for not just pulling in Twitter’s regex?
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tantek where is it?
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tantek.com edited /hashtags (+292) "/* Brainstorming */ regex(es)" (view diff)
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Zegnat https://github.com/twitter/twitter-text/blob/master/js/twitter-text.js#L135-L141
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tantek oh dear: twttr.txt.regexen.validGTLD
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kylewm tantek: hehe https://github.com/kylewm/brevity/blob/master/brevity.py#L235
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tantek.com edited /hashtags (+112) "/* Regex */ Twitter's regex" (view diff)
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Zegnat Well, the regexes might not be perfect, but whenever you want to know what Twitter allows in hashtags or usernames it is a great resource
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tantek Twitter's is more international friendly
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Zegnat Definitely. Yours would not even allow diaereses.
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tantek yeah, might be worth a separate function
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tantek.com edited /hashtags (+105) "/* Brainstorming */ put Twitter's regex link at top, note non-international (english-only) limitation of the short regexes" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+280) "/* linked hashtags */ next steps" (view diff)
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tantek I'm punting on implementing English-only hashtags. I don't think that would set a very good example. Especially when twitter already has open source to be more international friendly.
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tantek And that's a project that's big enough for another day. No quick hack hashtag auto-markup today.
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GWG Makes me think.
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GWG tantek: I may seek your advice on Friday/Saturday in person. You have a way of putting things into simple and clear perspective.
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tantek depends on the subject. :)
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GWG tantek: The number of subjects I feel I need put in simple and clear perspective makes things seem less simple.
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GWG I can't even boil down the question..."What do we want WordPress to be able to do to be Indieweb friendly?"
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tantek GWG, there are many sides to that question
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tantek presumably you mean WordPress the software
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GWG tantek: I'm aware.
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GWG Correct. I'm not prepared to tackle Wordpress.com right now
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GWG I'm thinking the open source project
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tantek which in that case, here is a rephrasing: How can we make it easier for those who run WordPress on their sites to have more indieweb support?
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tantek and the answer should include - improve the Getting Started with WordPress page accordingly
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tantek like make getting rel=me setup TRIVIAL
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tantek because it's still not trivial, and without that, someone with WordPress can't even participate in the community with editing the wiki etc.
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www.svenknebel.de created /User:Www.svenknebel.de (+34) "Created page with "[http://www.svenknebel.de sknebel]"" (view diff)
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tantek witness the experience we had with David Ascher recently
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GWG tantek: I wish I had witnessed it.
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GWG I need a witness of my own
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tantek GWG, you were in the channel I think
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tantek it's all logged - I'm looking for the start of it
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GWG tantek: Yes, a bit later on. I read the log
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GWG I want to figure out what core Indieweb features people agree on and try to unify them into a single plugin.
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GWG Probably rel me is part of that.
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tantek GWG, it kind of started here: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-03#t1451884863113
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GWG However, I know there are good reasons for some of the other plugins to stay separate.
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tantek GWG, "core IndieWeb features people agree on" is part of the purpose of IndieMark
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tantek so rather than trying to "figure out what core Indieweb features people agree on", just go with what's already been figured out for IndieMark
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www.svenknebel.de edited /IRC_People (+55) "/*Nicknames: */ added sknebel" (view diff)
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tantek GWG, here is where davidascher joined: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-04#t1451950147094 - I'd say it's useful to re-read starting from there
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tantek welcome sknebel !
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sknebel thanks!
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GWG I just am trying to reassess. I got feedback that putting rel=me and rel=syndication together only made sense to me.
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tantek well it only makes sense from a plumbing-centric (e.g. put rels together) perspective
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tantek from a user-centric / feature perspective, it is unclear why the two are related at all
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GWG They both refer to a relationship to another site.
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GWG But, I think I just got one idea I want to try.
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GWG If I remove things from Indiemark already built into WordPress as an exercise, what is left?
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tantek GWG " refer to a relationship to another site." is plumbing, not the user feature effect
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tantek GWG, start with the difficulties and questions encountered here: https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-01-04#t1451951760908
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tantek and try to solve the confusion around the indieweb plugin indicated in that dialog
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tantek nevermind the "already built into WordPress" things for now, start with the user-feedback you already got from davidascher
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tantek (and indirectly from snarfed who thought the WordPress IndieWeb plugin was deprecated!)
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GWG Both are right
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GWG The plugin doesn't do much on its own. Which probably should be fixed.
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tantek Let's make it a goal for the next davidascher WordPress user to come along to have a more clear (not as confusing an) experience.
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GWG Maybe that is where the rel=me code I wrote should be moved.
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tantek Anything that someone is asked to install should immediately provide *some* value.
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GWG The value right now for that plugin is only installing other plugins.
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tantek that's plumbing only - that's not actually immediate user/feature value
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GWG Achieving Indiemark Level 1 seems like a useful goal on top of installing other plugins.
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tantek If the IndieWeb plugin got you to IndieMark Level 1 (or at least walked you through testing your site with indiewebify.me) that would be quite useful!
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GWG tantek: At the last IWC in PDX, I recall two people were trying to make tutorials. I hoped they would appear, and we could integrate with them in the plugin. But that may be something to revisit. I'd love to find some volunteers just to help on that end. Not everyone is going to code, but documentation is nice.
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tantek GWG, I don't really believe in separate tutorials
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tantek the instructions / steps need to be so simple
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GWG tantek: Inside the plugin?
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tantek that you can just list a few things on the wiki
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tantek there should be no need for a tutorial anywhere - nobody has time to read through a lenthy tutorial
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tantek and if something needs lengthy instructions, it's probably poorly designed
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GWG And I agree that I need to find the right simplification.
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tantek GWG, btw, and other IWC NYC attendees - looks like we will be getting 1-3 inches of SNOW each day of IWC NYC!
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GWG Oh joy
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GWG Lucky I'm taking public transportation
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GWG But guess I'd better leave early.
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tantek since when do weather websites *need* JS? seriously?!?
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GWG Hmm...abundant sunshine on Sunday
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tantek what better to do on a snowed in weekend than hack on the indieweb indoors?
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GWG I only see it for Saturday anyway
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tantek per Dark Sky, 1-2" snow Fri, 1-3" snow Sat
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tantek that should be enough to stick on the ground
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tantek and rain too
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GWG I'm an accuweather person
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tantek.com edited /email (+429) "Brainstorming / Redirect to public issues" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /txting (+30) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /texting (+30) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /txt (+30) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /SMS (+30) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /email (+101) "email UIs encourage excessive length, in contrast to texting" (view diff)
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tantek hey aaronpk are you preserving your indieweb private messages?
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tantek e.g. http://aaronparecki.com/messages/
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tantek or heck I suppose I should be able to put the permalink here if the security is working :D http://aaronparecki.com/messages/2013/08/04/1/first-indieweb-private-message-thread
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tantek.com edited /private-webmention (+837) "IndieWeb Examples / Experiments / first-indieweb-private-message-thread" (view diff)
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petermolnar tantek, aaronpk yep, security is working on that thread, I can't see it :)
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snarfed eyes the instagram API lockdown announcement, sighs, starts to work on scraping IG's html
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snarfed rereads https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/65
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tantek snarfed: that really makes me want to make my IG private
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snarfed tantek: why?
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tantek to direct people to view my photos from my site/feed instead
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snarfed ah
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tantek I may tie that to getting automated POSSE to Flickr working
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tantek since Flickr has no such API shenanigans going on
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tantek moving toward a world where I primarily use IG as a client for posting photos to my site, rather than a place for others to see my photos
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snarfed makes sense!
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tantek snarfed,kylewm: while I'm struggling with coming up with a clever/easy/international-friendly way to auto-markup /hashtags, how hard is https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/574 ?
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snarfed rereads
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snarfed looks like not very hard
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snarfed (kylewm is the flickr pro though)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+642) "/* auto POSSE photos to Flickr */ flip Instagram profile to private as a consequence" (view diff)
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@georgkaser IndieWebify.Me - a guide to getting you on the #IndieWeb https://indiewebify.me/ (twitter.com/_/status/688868206841344005)
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