#indiewebcamp 2015-12-01

2015-12-01 UTC
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kartikprabhu.com edited /Loqi (+137) "fragmention bug" (view diff)
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tantek what is 2016?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "2016" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/1089
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tantek 2016 is /Planning
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loqi.me created /2016 (+21) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-30/line/1448928293798 and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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kevinmarks JonathanNeal++
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Loqi JonathanNeal has 18 karma
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tantek.com edited /Planning (+247) "dfn" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /Germany (+25) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2016/Germany (+203) "stub" (view diff)
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kevinmarks hm, odd brid.gy webmention on kevinmarks.com
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snarfed which¿
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kevinmarks I replied ot a dangillmor tweet, and it sent a webmention to me of my own tweet
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kevinmarks https://brid.gy/log?start_time=1448826343&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lyNQsSCFJlc3BvbnNlIid0YWc6dHdpdHRlci5jb20sMjAxMzo2NzEwNTA4MDYyMDA4MTk3MTIM
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snarfed looking
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kevinmarks oh, did it think this https://twitter.com/dangillmor/status/671050571772653568
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@dangillmor Maybe the Web is better than apps for building a business after all... https://medium.com/swlh/mobile-app-developers-are-suffering-a5636c57d576 h/t @kevinmarks (twitter.com/_/status/671050571772653568)
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kevinmarks was a POSSE of my homepage?
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kevinmarks and so my reply was a reply to my own page?
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snarfed ah. no, it's from his @-mention. it sends both @-mentions and replies to them to your home page
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snarfed it doesn't think they're POSSEs, just mentions and responses to them
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kevinmarks but dan's mention doesn't show up
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kevinmarks just RTs of it
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snarfed ok. i think it should have sent his; not sure if/why it's not there
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snarfed oh, funny. kevinmarks it actually sent your RT of his original tweet, and then his RT of your reply. https://brid.gy/twitter/kevinmarks?responses_before=2015-11-30T03:15:52.212750#responses
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snarfed drowns in the the twisty maze of tweets all alike
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tantek (re)tweets all alike
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tantek !tell aaronpk what do you think of renaming the annual "main" IndieWebCamp in Portland, the "IndieWeb Summit"
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek actually, everyone - what do you think of renaming the annual "main" IndieWebCamp in Portland, the "IndieWeb Summit" (but obv aaronpk as lead local organizers)
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tantek s/organizers/organizer
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Loqi tantek meant to say: actually, everyone - what do you think of renaming the annual "main" IndieWebCamp in Portland, the "IndieWeb Summit" (but obv aaronpk as lead local organizer)
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tantek finds it funny that his muscle memory assumes plural organizers :)
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bear IMO IndieWebCamp could just become IndieWeb Summit
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bear and then each region can have their's
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tantek bear - Summit usually implies *precisely* once a year
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bear right, but IndieWeb Summit [US, EU, ...]
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tantek which is why the "main" IndieWebCamp makes sense as the candidate for renaming as an annual "Summit"
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tantek of course it can (will likely) have multiple simultaneous venues
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tantek that's orthogonal
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tantek point being it is a specific set of days per year
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tantek and all the other city-specific/focused camps stay as IndieWebCamps
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bear twas just a thought
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tantek the point here is to elevate the main annual event
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tantek or rather to give it a name that reflects the fact that it is more special
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tantek both in the past, and explicitly for the future
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bear nods
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bear my thought experiment was to see how it felt (to me) having one of them be more special than all of the other camps
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tantek I think we're at the point of having enough critical mass and year-over-year proven track record of claiming the mantle of "IndieWeb Summit"
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bear agree
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tantek sure, my point is, it's already more special, so let's make that clear
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tantek hey Kongaloosh how is HWC Edi going?
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tantek or going
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tantek checks https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-01-homebrew-website-club for photos...
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GWG Good evening
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snarfed downloads 5G of bridgy data so he can crunch some stats
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GWG snarfed: Anything going on?
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snarfed well, that
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tantek snarfed, that sounds "big"
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tantek ;)
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snarfed hah not quite
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bear how well does it compress?
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snarfed https://snarfed.org/2013-10-15_big-data
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snarfed bear: kinda n/a, the native format is compressed :P
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bear nice!
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tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "next - sf!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+9) "San Francisco" (view diff)
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tantek oops, time traveling again
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-9) "Undo revision 23481 by [[Special:Contributions/Tantek.com|Tantek.com]] ([[User talk:Tantek.com|talk]])" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "Undo revision 23480 by [[Special:Contributions/Tantek.com|Tantek.com]] ([[User talk:Tantek.com|talk]])" (view diff)
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tantek sorry to bother you Kongaloosh, had briefly errantly set my internal clock forward by one day
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tantek wants optimistically scheduled wiki edits.
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tantek let me try that again
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tantek I want scheduled optimistic wiki edits.
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@benwerd Edinburgh! Homebrew Website Club is on Tuesday, 5:30pm at Bar 50. Meet people, and help build an independent web. https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-12-01-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/671498974084251649)
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aaronpk good evening
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 52 minutes ago: what do you think of renaming the annual "main" IndieWebCamp in Portland, the "IndieWeb Summit" http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-30/line/1448929683305
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tantek benwerd++ thanks for getting the word out!
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Loqi benwerd has 103 karma
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aaronpk interesting idea, I would be up for that
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aaronpk no pun intended
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tantek alright then
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kevinmarks you have to hold it on top of Mt Rainier?
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aaronpk if we pull off the Düsseldorf one again in 2016 that one is going to quickly rival Portland in terms of number of attendees and productivity though!
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tantek wow!
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tantek yeah I just emailed joschi about it
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tantek and asked him to show up in IRC to help collectively discuss it and get more Europeans involved!
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aaronpk Joschi is talking about Nürnberg, Marc does the one in Düsseldorf
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tantek what is 2016/Germany?
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tantek oh sorry
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tantek yes
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tantek what is Germany?
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Loqi There are at least a couple of IndieWebCamps being planned for Germany in 2016 https://indiewebcamp.com/Germany
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kevinmarks I suppose technically the Edinburgh one is also on a summit
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tantek does some prior term use search for indieweb summit and indie web summit
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dhalgren` how big was Düsseldorf?
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aaronpk dhalgren`: http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Germany
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dhalgren` ah, thx
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tantek finds only one instances of confusion of each with last year's indie tech summit, which itself was only tweeted about 4 times this year so it seems like it's safe to use IndieWeb Summit or Indie Web Summit or even IndieWebSummit for 2016
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dhalgren` is there any interest/chance of convincing Wordpress to be more indieweb-friendly by default?
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GWG tantek: Isn't Web Summit a conference in Dublin every year?
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GWG dhalgren`: I've been working on that.
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dhalgren` ohh, nice. anyone biting on their end?
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GWG dhalgren`: Simple answer...there is a chance. Interest...debatable.
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GWG I've had mixed results.
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dhalgren` got it
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GWG dhalgren`: I think I'd need more than just me saying it
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dhalgren` hm? sry didn't understand your last comment? saying what 'it' & need more of what?
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GWG dhalgren`: The WordPress Core team need more than one individual advocating for Indieweb stuff.
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dhalgren` ahh, yy, sure
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kevinmarks invite any Automattic people you know to IWC SF
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dhalgren` is there a petition to sighg :D
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tantek dhalgren - I think plugins and live deployment on personal sites speak louder than petition signings!
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GWG dhalgren`: What would you want them to do to be more Indieweb friendly? If you were to put it in one sentence?
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GWG tantek: I'm fighting the fight on multiple fronts.
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GWG Plugins, the most popular starter theme, the built-in themes, WordPress Core, etc.
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dhalgren` tantek: heh true; I guess bunch of folks around here enjoys rolling their own though, so wordpress doesn't get chosen
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GWG dhalgren`: I am one of the WordPress people
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dhalgren` makes sense; given your interest. I'm not sure what the priorities are; naively I thought producing uf2 markup we can consume from their common themes?
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tantek dhalgren`: WordPress is a very well respected peer around these parts
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tantek folks using WordPress as the foundation of their IndieWeb efforts tend to be very productive and have quite advance /IndieMark levels
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GWG dhalgren`: WordPress has classic microformats, not microformats2 by default.
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GWG But there is a proposal to address that.
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GWG I wrote it
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dhalgren` tantek: hm, really? guess there's a reason that CMS is so dominant; I kinda expected it would introduce complexity
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tantek GWG, are we tracking these proposals with links on /WordPress?
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GWG tantek: That is a very good idea.
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tantek dhalgren`: yes - that's the same presumption that a lot of us make too
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GWG One I should get right on.
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tantek thank you GWG!
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tantek hence there is a lot of handrolled, homerolled, one might even say, homebrewed solutions around these parts ;)
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tantek but the results that WordPress folks get around here speak for themselves - quite impressive
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GWG tantek: I'll thank you for my percentage of that compliment.
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tantek GWG++ for a huge percentage of that
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Loqi GWG has 131 karma
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david.shanske.com edited /WordPress (+485) "/* Development */" (view diff)
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kevinmarks also silo.pub for posting to wordpress.com
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GWG dhalgren`: Have you tried any of the Indieweb WordPress plugins?
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dhalgren` no. I'll go w static site generation first; already have most of the code, though its a bit ineegant, but dammit it works.. Plus I can then write in org-mode and just git push, which is a nice authoring flow for me.
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dhalgren` figuring out the markup and what further metadata fields I should add, and then if this thing doesn't get live by the end of the week, I swear I'll amputate my brain, for its obv serving no purpose :)
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ben_thatmustbeme huh, aaronpk, i stopped using /author/1 for my url some time ago, but it looks like posts are still getting there that way
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ben_thatmustbeme http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/10/17/1/p3k
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: still? that is from a year ago
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, wait
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ben_thatmustbeme sorry, i confused myself
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ben_thatmustbeme i responded a very similar way to gRegorLove's post
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ben_thatmustbeme and i thought it was getting there via salmention
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ben_thatmustbeme heh
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aaronpk ha
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gRegorLove Hehe
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gRegorLove No salmentions support on my end yet
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm actually really close on private posts
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ben_thatmustbeme i just don't have a way to actually set the people who can access the post yet
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tantek I have no idea how I'm going to get person tagging done by tomorrow (and thus done in time to demo at IWC)
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tantek I think I nerdsniped myself into overdesigning the UI / storage etc. for it
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dhalgren` GWG: WP just looks like an enormous userbase it'd be nice to be (part-)compatible with, as a frequent comment I hear re silo alternatives is "but nobody's there". blogosphere is huge.
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GWG dhalgren`: I could use help and new users.
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gregorlove.com edited /Template:twitter-link (+0) "update twitter icon hotlink" (view diff)
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dhalgren` fair; that is a bigger picture than my nerdjerking (though, I'll find it a home, somewhere!^^)... in fact, lemme take a look mayhaps I have free wp hosting opc clicks away.
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dhalgren` s/opc/few/
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Loqi dhalgren` meant to say: fair; that is a bigger picture than my nerdjerking (though, I'll find it a home, somewhere!^^)... in fact, lemme take a look mayhaps I have free wp hosting few clicks away.
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: want to try logging in to my site and then seeing if you can see https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2015/12/1/1/
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aaronpk ooh
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ben_thatmustbeme crosses fingers
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aaronpk are you intentionally redirecting to a 404 page before I log in, as opposed to showing a login prompt or some other indication that there's something there?
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aaronpk oops still is 404 even after signing in
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ben_thatmustbeme damn
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ben_thatmustbeme it got the right person_id for you though, so thats good at least
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Loqi :sadface:
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i intentionally make it look like there is nothing there
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dhalgren` GWG: quite a few clicks apparently, but think It'll go up. gotta wait! thx for making the argument!
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: try again
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ben_thatmustbeme also, once logged in, notice the home page feed too!
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ben_thatmustbeme need to make it visible
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aaronpk ooh there it is!
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ben_thatmustbeme yeah, just need to make it obvious that its a private post
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ben_thatmustbeme and its set to optional to display the addressee or not
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ben_thatmustbeme so basically BCC
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /private_posts (+112) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ private posts working \o/" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /private_posts (-2) "/* {{aaronpk}}} */ fix extra } in aaron's header" (view diff)
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dhalgren` well, the dns resolves at least now, but I'm not sure I'll actually have ftp access which I gather is required to upload plugins so this might be an abortive attempt
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kevinmarks deletes schema cruft injected into my blogger template
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kevinmarks they're still using aabr not time o_O
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tantek sigh
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tantek what is a Blogger template?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Blogger template" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/108B
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aaronpk rhiaro: you're using the webmention.io jf2 callbacks now right?
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tantek.com edited /2015/SF (+48) "/* Organizers */ adding Andi Galpern for her help with Eventbrite setup / outreach / and being another organizer contact" (view diff)
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rhiaro aaronpk: not finished switching to that yet, no
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tantek welcome back andicascadesf - please coordinate with kylewm for any remaining IndieWebCamp planning before the event! Thanks!
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andicascadesf @kylewm Hi Kyle! Can you add me as an organizer / host to the Facebook event page? I’d like to help manage the attendees and make sure everyone confirms their spot by signing up on Eventbrite. https://www.facebook.com/events/175203116150206/
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Loqi andicascadesf: snarfed left you a message on 11/25 at 2:04pm: cool! lots of feedback earlier in case you missed it: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25#t1448462922435 (scroll down from there) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25/line/1448489051679
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Loqi andicascadesf: kevinmarks left you a message on 11/25 at 2:08pm: the previous one almost had the words aligned with the stylised letters - yours is more asymmetric http://svgforall.appspot.com/s/2d http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25/line/1448489281258
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Loqi andicascadesf: kevinmarks left you a message on 11/25 at 2:09pm: I made a HWC clone logo that aligned them more http://svgforall.appspot.com/s/1k http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25/line/1448489396988
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kylewm andicascadesf: sure! added
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kylewm although it's already over-booked :/
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andicascadesf yes, but people always cancel the last minute.
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andicascadesf especially for a free event
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+213) "/* RSVPs from Eventbrite */ 2 more waitlisters" (view diff)
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@haverholm RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twitter.com/_/status/671574054189596672)
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@xkummerer RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twitter.com/_/status/671574503605084160)
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@vadsten RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twitter.com/_/status/671579237640458240)
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@strugee2 RT @benwerd: Proposal: let's stop using the phrase "Dark Web". It's the Private Web. #indieweb #tor #privacy (twitter.com/_/status/671581815824584704)
loic_m, Lancey_, Lancey__, Jihaisse, elima, KartikPrabhu1, cweiske, nitot, tantek, friedcell, tantek_, colintedford, j12t, fkooman, jden, adactio, mlncn, sammachin, andicascadesf, ttepasse and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
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adactio.com edited /events/2015-12-02-homebrew-website-club (-12) "/* Where */" (view diff)
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adactio.com edited /events/2015-12-02-homebrew-website-club (-44) "/* Brighton */" (view diff)
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adactio.com edited /events/2015-12-02-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* Where */" (view diff)
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adactio.com edited /events/2015-12-02-homebrew-website-club (+74) "/* Brighton */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webmention (+43) "don't make an assumption that the receiver will follow redirects on the target, recommend limiting the number of redirects to follow on source https://github.com/w3c-social/webmention/issues/19" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Webmention (+44) "/* Updating existing webmentions */ only delete the webmention when the target isn't found AND the source returned 200 (prevents accidental deletes from 404 pages)" (view diff)
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@t Hosting 3 days of @W3C Social Web + @IndieWebCamp @MozSF, and 5-7 people at home for those + @thenorthfaceECS #ECSCA. (ttk.me t4eW1) (twitter.com/_/status/671696998668460032)
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calumryan.com edited /IRC_People (+97) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks So getting up at 5:30 didn't work. I fell asleep again and woke at 7
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KevinMarks Missed the 8.03 train by 2 minutes
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KevinMarks So I'm on the 8:20 which gets in at 9:47
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KevinMarks So see you all about 10am
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kylewm giving up on Hoodie for now. writing the frontend part of the app looked like it would be really fun, the plugin api seems to be in pre-1.0 flux and the only example I could find of a plugin exposing custom endpoints/authentication mechanism appears to be broken
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bengo So... that means kylewm needs a new hack day project!
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kylewm bengo: :) I still want to try to do the same thing (offline-first micropub app), just not with hoodie
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kevinmarks_ bear - is there a way to stop talky sending me video, just audio?
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bear kevinmarks_ sadly no
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kevinmarks_ oh well, as long as t-mobile doesn't put me on throttle for the rest of the month
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bear lowtech solution - have someone open another talky session and they turn off their sending of video
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kevinmarks_ anything I can do in chrome console?
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bear asking the devs now
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bear they don't think so - you could kill the incoming video webrtc channel but I have no idea how the server would handle that
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bear this is the downside to not working at &yet any more - I can't pester them for feature changes
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bear kevinmarks_ - one of the devs says to try: app.media.remoteVideoStreams.models.forEach(function (m) { m.stop() })
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bear that will stop the video... but the data may still be transferred :/
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kevinmarks_ that also stopped audio
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kevinmarks_ but kept the data oepn
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kevinmarks_ oh well.
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bear k, one of the server devs is also exploring
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snarfed kylewm: fun convergence on mobile indieweb app. i threw together a short intro talk i might give on thurs, and that project is front and center
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snarfed https://snarfed.org/iwc_sf
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snarfed tldr: "we've built solid MVPs of *lots* of indieweb functionality. what's the next big thing? i vote that it's a full featured offline first mobile (web)app."
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snarfed glad you're into it!
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kevinmarks_ that sounds fun
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snarfed (obligatory: https://snarfed.org/posting-to-the-indieweb-from-your-phone is the straw man design doc)
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kevinmarks_ noterlive has bits of this
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kevinmarks_ but doesn't post to micropub yet
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kevinmarks_ and isn't https so can't be fully progressive web
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kevinmarks_ however it has offline cashing wiht localstorage
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snarfed cool!
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kevinmarks_ which has saved me multiple times
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aaronpk i also want an offline first mobile app
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aaronpk i had to jot down what I ate on the plane in a text file to post it later
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kylewm !tell tantek,andicascadesf I'm worried the eventbrite RSVP is going to prevent people who've been registered for weeks from coming
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm !tell tantek,andicascadesf based on https://www.facebook.com/events/175203116150206/permalink/193584130978771/
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk I had the same thought
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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snarfed kylewm: in practice, i expect the capacity is pretty soft and we can handle this case by case and not turn any actual community members away
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+320) "/* RSVPs from Eventbrite */" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm: do we think we may have overattendance?
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tantek estimate?
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Loqi tantek: kylewm left you a message 1 hour, 5 minutes ago: I'm worried the eventbrite RSVP is going to prevent people who've been registered for weeks from coming http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-01/line/1448993596347
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Loqi tantek: kylewm left you a message 1 hour, 5 minutes ago: based on https://www.facebook.com/events/175203116150206/permalink/193584130978771/ http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-12-01/line/1448993622418
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kylewm tantek: I have absolutely 0 experience estimating this kind of thing. no guess what percentage of people who registered via eventbrite or facebook are likely to show up
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kylewm if it's 50%, then we'll have ~27 people
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aaronpk holy cow
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tantek oh boy I've only asked for space setup and food for 20
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tantek ok let me see if I can up that to 30
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snarfed tantek: will mozilla facilities care if we squeeze in more people?
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snarfed (we can easily fill in more food)
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kevinmarks_ andi has experience of that
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tantek snarfed - it's a matter of chairs and tables
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kevinmarks_ is it the same space we are in today?
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snarfed right, i understand they set up for 20, but IWC is informal, i'd happily sit on the floor, and i'm sure others too
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tantek KevinMarks_: yes
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snarfed so the more important q may be whether they'd care or notice
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kevinmarks_ so the space is physically big enough, we just need more furniture
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snarfed (or not :P)
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tantek just looking around the room it looks like we have potentially 10 more tables (2 people per), and maybe about 10 more chairs stacked up
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snarfed great problem to have, btw!
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tantek so I *think* we can accomodate just in time overflow to ~30
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tantek are we over 30?!?
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tantek snarfed, yeah seriously
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tantek also wondering if we should *be ready for 30*
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kevinmarks_ I assume this room is fire marshal rated for 50+
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aaronpk or more even, it has a door facing the street
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kylewm andi's eye on the guest list would help, whether these are people she knows and thinks will come
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kylewm most of the facebook people have been to HWC before, most of the eventbrite people have not
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GWG Afternoon
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loqi.me created /CSRF_token (+216) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by bear" (view diff)
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bear.im edited /CSRF (+21) "add links for CSRF token" (view diff)
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bear.im edited /CSRF_token (+503) "more explainy words and a see-also" (view diff)
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@LukasRosenstock "Why WordPress's new Calypso interface is genius" - good thoughts from @benwerd: http://werd.io/2015/why-wordpresss-new-calypso-interface-is-genius?utm_content=buffer12fde&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/671787657584840704)
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@dougmckown @withknown What's the latest with the Known to Medium sharing option? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/671825535169875968)
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erinjorichey.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+263) "/* RSVPs */" (view diff)
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@jgmac1106 This has been driving me crazy for weeks. I can't get the @medium Font Awesome Icon to display on http://jgregorymcverry.com/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/671829796712771584)
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tantek kylewm count update?
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tantek for IWC SF
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tantek Kongaloosh: how's HWC Edi?
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tantek ok I've updated the food order for IWC SF to *40* people
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tantek how are we doing on RSVPs? kylewm? andi?
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bengo regret on tomorrow's HWC, girlfriend has company holliday party http://bengo.is/notes/20151201-rsvp-hwc
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tantek bengo - hey you can update your RSVP and send another webmention
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tantek per webmention updates protocol that should work
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bengo I just posted that no rsvp and there was not one before? And I just curled webmention so should be on indieevent soon
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bengo ah yes it is
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tantek bengo and now you can go edit the wiki page because we haven't automated all this stuff :)
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bengo I didn't see a regrets section
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bengo but will add myself with that prefix
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+127) "/* RSVPs from Eventbrite */" (view diff)
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kylewm tantek: is Bryn Wolfka and Bryn Cartwright the same person?
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (-2) "/* Participants */ update counts" (view diff)
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kylewm 45 RSVPs (!)
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kylewm oh actually 44, merged Bryn's
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tantek yes same Bryn
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (-311) "/* RSVPs from Facebook */" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+204) "/* on the Eventbrite waitlist */" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /2015/SF/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */ update counts" (view diff)