#indiewebcamp 2015-11-25

2015-11-25 UTC
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kylewm
it doesn't supporting editing or deleting yet, but I would be thrilled to add it
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kylewm
and also I would like to know how far we are with editing/deleting too
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tantek
kylewm - editing / deleting via silopub would make for a great demo next HWC 12/2!
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kylewm
do any clients support editing/deleting?
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tantek
is it possible to construct a test HTML form to try editing/deleting?
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kylewm
that's true, also curl
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kylewm
that is not very exciting to me right now though :)
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tantek
kylewm: true - not exciting to demo, but useful for testing
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tantek
I wonder how snarfed tested his editing/delete support on his micropub WordPress plugin
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aaronpk
I was testing mine with curl too
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tantek
editing UI is hard ;)
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aaronpk
I need an example of an editor that people like, and then I can copy the UX of it to make a reference micropub editor
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bengo
Postman is a good/easy cURL GUi
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aaronpk
that's not what I mean ;)
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tantek
aaronpk, IIRC snarfed is a fan of the WordPress iOS client
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snarfed
(android :P but yes)
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aaronpk
okay I'll take a look at the wordpress app
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aaronpk
there must be a simpler one too though
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tantek
er, sorry, I should just say, WordPress native mobile client :P
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tantek
aaronpk, the next I'd look at (if I hadn't uninstalled it) would be a Tumblr native mobile client
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tantek
IG does have some editing capabilities
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tantek
hidden in the (...) button on the far right side of the like, comment, forward buttons is an "Edit" choice
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tantek
which turns the "caption" (i.e. your own first comment) into an editable field, and then shows "edit" buttons for location and people
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tantek
that's a combination reader/editor though
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kylewm
might be a good indie-config action, like, reply, repost, edit
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tantek
indeed
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tantek
both IG and Twitter have "Delete" as an option in their (...) on their permalinks
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aaronpk
I suspect "delete" may be a better starting point
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aaronpk
given that twitter doesn't even let you edit posts
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tantek
easier
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kylewm
it looks like the micropub wordpress plugin supports an earlier iteration of the editing spec?
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kylewm
edit-of=url without all the update vs. add vs. remove stuff
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snarfed
yeah iirc there's an issue for that
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snarfed
micropub evolved pretty fast
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kylewm
tbh, the mp-action=edit looks overcomplicated to me
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kylewm
i hadn't really dug into it before
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tantek
kylewm: from what I recall, each step in the evolution had pretty strong considered reasons, but aaronpk may be able to better recall
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kylewm
I don't doubt that it did
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kylewm
I guess my question is why mp-action=edit&add[properties][category]=indieweb instead of mp-action=add&category=indieweb
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kylewm
(my question for aaronpk and ben_thatmustbeme)
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aaronpk
it gets tricky when you want to remove things
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aaronpk
looking at this again, I could see making it a little simpler, mp-action=edit&add[category]=indieweb
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aaronpk
basically dropping the [properties] bit since all that gives us is closer parity with what a microformats2 edit post looks like
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tantek
simplification++
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Loqi
simplification has 1 karma
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tantek
now's a good time to do this, with fewer implementations, and more intentions to implement soon
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kylewm
how about mp-action=listremove&category=indieweb
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kylewm
I'm curious what gets tricky
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aaronpk
removing a value from a list vs removing a whole property
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aaronpk
similarly, replacing a value vs adding a value to a list
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aaronpk
there are a handful of cases that need to be considered, maybe I should write those all down outside the context of this syntax
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tantek
writingdownusecases++
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Loqi
writingdownusecases has 1 karma
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kylewm
not sure I'm advocating this, but removing a property is similar to editing a property to nil
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tantek
oh dear no
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aaronpk
yes it's similar, but there are no consistent serializations of that
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kylewm
what's wrong with that tantek? mp-edit&category=
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aaronpk
blank value does not necessarily imply nil
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tantek
right
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tantek
what if its multivalued and you only want to drop one of them?
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kylewm
then you would use a different action instead of edit
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kylewm
I'm just saying the action+subaction thing seems more confusing on the whole
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aaronpk
give me a sec to write this down
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kylewm
but +1 to use cases instead of bikeshedding syntax which I am doing right now :)
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aaronpk
i'm not disagreeing with you necessarily
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aaronpk
and frankly if there is a non-nested way to do this that makes sense i'm all for that
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tantek
kylewm while you wait for aaronpk to capture the usecases, mind reviewing the issue noted in #microformats?
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kylewm
is not sure he has the mental bandwidth
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kylewm
will try
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GWG
Still talking Micropub?
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bret
oh man, feeling super out of touch with the state of micropub
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bret
anyone have a tldr? or a wiki page thats up to date?
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bret
jsmp?
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bret
wish i could make it to iwc sf
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aaronparecki.com
created /edit-examples (+899) "Created page with "== Create an Object == * Some properties have a single value, some have multiple values, e.g. ** name: Hello World ** category: foo, bar == Add a Value == * Adding a new propert...""
(view diff)
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aaronpk
okay there are 6 kinds of operations https://indiewebcamp.com/edit-examples
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aaronpk
added requirements for each
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kylewm
so this assumes every property of a Post is a string or a list of strings
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GWG
bret: I contributed to a Micropub client and I'm still confused.
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aaronpk
yes, because microformats does it that way
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kylewm
just making sure
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tantek
strings++
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Loqi
strings has 0 karma
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aaronpk
a string can also be a URL of course
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tantek
of course, best way to store a URL is as a string
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kylewm
i guess that's true, you can't have a list-of-lists-of-strings in microformats
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tantek
kylewm we're still unsure how best to represent geotags
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GWG
How can an endpoint tell you what properties it understands?
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tantek
2d arrays of coordinates
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tantek
GWG, step away from the WS-deathstar problem
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tantek
what is WS-deathstar?
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Loqi
For reference: WS-Deathstar [1][2][3][4][5], e.g.: https://indiewebcamp.com/WS_Deathstar
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kylewm
it's like asking how to solve a problem where someone else knows it reduces to traveling salesman
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GWG
tantek: I'm simply looking for the exhaust port.
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tantek
in scrolling to the top of that page I realize we are lacking an entry on the "field of pipe dreams" anti-pattern
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aaronpk
okay i have to run. if someone wants to take a stab at making up names for all the things on that page that would be an interesting exercise
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aaronpk
also good homework is to look at the wordpress api and document which of the 6 operations they support and what they call things
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aaronpk
any volunteers?
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GWG
aaronpk: It isn't going into WordPress core till 4.5. The infrastructure is going into 4.4, and I was considering having a look at that.
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kylewm
GWG: is it roughly the same API as wordpress.com? https://developer.wordpress.com/docs/api/
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kylewm
looks like that API just has what `replace' which it calls `edit'
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kylewm
s/has what/has what you called
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Loqi
kylewm meant to say: looks like that API just has what you called `replace' which it calls `edit'
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kylewm
on consideration, yall were right about null != []
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GWG
kylewm: I'm not sure. I've been meaning to look into it more. But I'm not as concerned about .com. I care about .org
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kylewm
GWG: it would be interesting to look at the proposed JSON API, could you help me find it?
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GWG
Yes. I'll find the link.
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tantek.com
edited /antipatterns (+599) "capture field-of-pipe-dreams-antipattern in the inbox"
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GWG
It is still being finalized. But the plumbing is due in 4.4 in December. The actual API will go into 4.5 as of now, due in 2016.
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GWG
I wanted to look to see if the infrastructure going into 4.4 might be a better way to implement the Micropub and Webmention endpoints.
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kylewm
thanks GWG
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kylewm
(it was hard to tell what was official and what were third party efforts)
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kylewm
definitely not the same as the wordpress.com api
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kylewm
supports Create (POST /wp/v2/posts) Update (POST /wp/v2/posts/<id>) and Delete (DELETE /wp/v2/posts/<id>)
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GWG
It is newer. They've been working on it for a long time now.
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kylewm
interesting that they used POST instead of PUT for edit, but DELETE for delete
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tantek
that is an odd bit of partial REST verbism
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aaronpk
Huh interesting: filter[s]=awesome
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aaronpk
That page is terrible on mobile
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aaronpk
GWG: is post meta how Wordpress does tags?
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GWG
No, taxonomy
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aaronpk
hmm the new api doesn't have methods for taxonomy
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aaronpk
I see how they're avoiding the issues I am trying to solve though
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aaronpk
they treat all properties of a post as single value
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aaronpk
when there are multiple values, they are treated as a separate resource to manage
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aaronpk
GWG: when you create a post with the API do you have to add tags after the post is created?
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GWG
I've never used it
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GWG
I thought it was still evolving.
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aaronpk
From what I can tell there are like 3 APIs
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GWG
Wordpress.com, Wordpress.org and?
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aaronpk
XMLRPC
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aaronpk
metaweblog
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GWG
Oh, that thing
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aaronpk
json api
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aaronpk
new thing
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GWG
That's the .org I referred to.
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tantek
Is there a micropub FAQ?
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aaronpk
Hmm! There isn't!
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aaronpk
new page?
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aaronpk
i think that section started out as a suggestion to use JSON as the payload format
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aaronpk
So xmlrpc supports adding tags to the post when it's created
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GWG
Yes
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aaronpk
It's hard to tell on the others
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aaronpk
apparently wp-api has already been deprecated in favor of v2
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aaronpk
i don't feel so bad about Micropub going through these revisions now ;-)
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GWG
aaronpk: Bingo
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tantek
aaronpk indeed!
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tantek
btw I think what you meant by "xmlrpc supports" is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetaWeblog
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aaronpk
Oh I meant the Wordpress xmlrpc api
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aaronpk
so I kind of want to go through that list I just made and make a version that doesn't use nested form encoded names at all
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aaronpk
just to see what that looks like
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tantek
hmm seems like we should document some of this
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tantek
let's see if I can find a thread to tug on
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tantek
what is pingback?
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Loqi
pingback is a protocol for web sites to notify other web sites when they've posted a link to them (respectively) https://indiewebcamp.com/pingback
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tantek
not specific enough
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aaronpk
i think you'd only be able to edit one property per http request in that case tho
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aaronpk
I'm on a phone right now. Anyone want to continue doing what I am doing there?
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tantek
If I had more of an idea where it's going
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kylewm
aaronpk, what does the A: signify?
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aaronpk
there are some more
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tantek.com
edited /pingback (+25) "legacy XML-RPC"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
im planning on doing alternate versions called B and C
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aaronpk
didnt want to think about what to call it right now
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kylewm
I'll take a cut
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aaronpk
kylewm: is that what you were implying earlier about making a flatter version?
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kylewm.com
edited /edit-examples (+141) "A's for delete a property and delete an object"
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kylewm
aaronpk: yes exactly
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aaronpk
It's limited to manipulating one value per request right?
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kylewm
well that's true
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kylewm
and for "Replace a Value", that's not acceptable
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kylewm
for Add a Value, Delete a Value, and Delete a Property, I think it's ok to limit it to one at a time
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aaronpk
Interesting
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aaronpk
Flickr treats adding and removing tags as individual operations
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aaronpk
wordpress has a "save" button you have to press after changing the tags
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aaronpk
so Wordpress does multiple tag edits in one request
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kylewm
You can add multiple tags to one photo with one call to the flickr API
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kylewm
'tags': ','.join(tags),
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aaronpk
oh yeah
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tantek
kylewm tags I think are more complicated than that in Flickr - though maybe not in API?
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aaronpk
the UI doesn't support that anymore tho right?
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tantek
Flickr tags are space separated by default, unles you have a tag with spaces in it, in which case comma separated
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kylewm
tantek: talking about machine tags?
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tantek
all tags
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aaronpk
tags are pretty simple in flickr IIRC, like there's no IDs for them, they aren't treated as their own resource, etc
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tantek.com
created /Micropub-FAQ (+1650) "stub with JSON FAQ"
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kylewm
I'm just quoting every tag when sending to the api
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aaronpk
wordpress has the concept of tags having their own IDs, and heck tags are just one of the possible taxonomies you can use to add things to posts
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kylewm
so it's like "indieweb","homebrew website club"
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tantek
quoted is fine
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tantek
yes that works
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tantek
and would (should) also work without commas
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tantek.com
edited /Micropub-brainstorming () "(-1431) move an FAQ to separate page"
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aaronpk
flickr tags can have spaces?? How did I not know this
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tantek
aaronpk - since you asked for help - started Micropub FAQ
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GWG
Categories and tags are taxonomies in WordPress, and there are custom taxonomies available.
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aaronpk
awsome thanks
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tantek
aaronpk: Flickr tags can be space delimited
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aaronpk
ive occasionally found myself wanting to use tags with spaces on my own site
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tantek.com
edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+171) "Past or other blog publishing APIs"
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tantek
aaronpk - yes it's the past of tagging
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tantek
hashtags have done away with spaces in tags
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aaronpk
Ah yes
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aaronpk
my site was built around the hashtag idea of tagging
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kylewm.com
edited /edit-examples (+132) "/* A */"
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aaronpk
Clever
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kylewm
I'm not sure :)
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kylewm
remove/clear/delete are probably all too synonymous
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kylewm
but i'm looking at it like the "required" cases are: create, update, delete
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kylewm
and the other three are sugar
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kylewm
and maybe should have more specific names like listadd, listremove, listclear
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kevinmarks
delicious didn't support spaces in tags, flickr and technorati did
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kevinmarks
delicious treated tag1+tag2 (+ being an escaped space) as a join over the 2 tags
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kevinmarks
so when I tried to show their tags for a space-separated tag on technorati I took down their db
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kevinmarks
they switched to _
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kevinmarks
what is A about in /edit-examples ?
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kylewm
trying out some possible formats for micropub edit parameters
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petermolnar
second step of slowly and painlessly walking away from wordpress in progress: moving the theme to Twig bases; it's not as bad as I thought. ( first step was to have all posts auto-exported in dir/yaml format )
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andicascadesf
So I took a stab at an updated logo design for Indie Web Camp. http://andigalpern.com/clients/iwc/iwc-logo.jpg
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andicascadesf
I removed the gradient and simplified everything.
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kylewm
ohh pretty big fan of removing the gradient
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petermolnar
right, but it does read IVO, as cweiske pointed out
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petermolnar
it might be a little too simplified
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kylewm
agree about the O
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@voxpelli
@sanduhrs Noticed you're working on IndieWeb and Drupal – you may be interested in that Multiping now supports PuSH: http://blog.superfeedr.com/drupal-pubsubhubbub-multiping/
(twitter.com/_/status/669539568324968448)
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voxpelli
Current logo also says IVO so not really a criticism of the new look but of the logo in general though?
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kylewm
well current logo might say 3VC
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kylewm
but i guess you don't immediately recognize them as letters
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aaronpk
I always thought the current logo looked like EVO
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aaronpk
I wonder if andi's version had a white line on the right side it might split the O and make it look more like a C
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[snarfed]
it would. also a trapezoid instead of the triangle (ie flattening the bottom) would probably look more like a W
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@mdvfunes
@abentleybear yes, it is a way in. Yet authors I've been reading focus more on social media and its corporate interests. @indiewebcamp hlps
(twitter.com/_/status/669550814369681408)
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@abentleybear
@mdvfunes @indiewebcamp The coporate take over is well underway. Am actually in the process of setting up my own website for my content.
(twitter.com/_/status/669552132379414528)
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petermolnar
I never really felt the need of a templating engine, since PHP started it's life as one. But I have to admit, Twig is ridiculously fast, and I'm yet to understand, how.
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aaronpk
isn't twig the one that compiles down to PHP code?
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petermolnar
yep, that's the one
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petermolnar
though it compiles into a bit more complicated code than I expected
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aaronpk
I'm in a similar boat, never really been a fan of templating engines because PHP is one, and I think it's silly to learn another syntax
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aaronpk
but i started using twig recently and I kind of like it
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petermolnar
portability is a relatively good reason
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petermolnar
I'm having the crazy idea of moving to, for example, python in the future
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aaronpk
interesting
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petermolnar
and since jinja2 is more or less the same as twig, it might come handy
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petermolnar
this experiment also highlights how incredibly bloated the wordpress themes are; the core is pretty snappy right now
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bret
been playing with https://github.com/substack/node-trumpet its a pretty wild template system
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petermolnar
what is js;dr ?
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Loqi
js;dr is JavaScript required; Didn’t Read https://indiewebcamp.com/js;dr
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petermolnar
unless this is on the node side
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petermolnar
in that case, it's interesting, yes
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bret
also cool
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petermolnar
cool and interesting, true, but the only reason for me to switch to templating is portability
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petermolnar
and this is not portable at all :)
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bret
universal javascript is so accessible now, not getting a server rendered view is harder to justify
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petermolnar
"universal javascript is so accessible now" in the age of spreading noscript? disagree.
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bret
adblockers are spreading, noscript is still super fringe
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petermolnar
that depends on your audience
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bret
cant win em all
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bret
been playing with react lately, i think a lot more of it now that I see its just a template engine that doesn't have a preference where it runs
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kevinmarks
I like jinja2, though I get tempted to write too much code in the templates
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bret
but anyway, hyperstream its just a template engine without any dsl's
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tantek
templating is one of those low level code-restructuring itches for me
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kevinmarks
I keep effectively doing it manually, and it means my pages have inconsistent includes
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tantek
my current situation is I have thin static template files for the "outer" parts of my home page and Atom feed - which get dynamically filled in with a list of posts/entries respectively.
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tantek
my permalink pages are 100% generated inside PHP
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tantek
actually the same one PHP file does all three of those: filling in h-entry composite stream for home page, filling in <entry> elements in Atom feed, generating complete HTML page for permalinks.
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tantek
the conditional code for different presentation for different (implied) post types is getting complex enough that I'll likely refactor at some point and try to move some of the code to static files
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bear
I really enjoy jinja2 and how it makes me think about how i'm building a page up from the different template parts
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tantek
what is jinja2
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "jinja2" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/107s
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tantek
what is a template?
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Loqi
A template is a file used to generate a page https://indiewebcamp.com/template
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kevinmarks
jinja2 is a python-based [http://jinja.pocoo.org templating language] for html with rich macro support.
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loqi.me
created /jinja2 (+130) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25/line/1448472854360 and dfn added by kevinmarks"
(view diff)
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tantek
can you add it to the right section in /template too?
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kevinmarks
not sure what the right section is
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tantek
what kind of templating system is it?
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kevinmarks
on that fits the 'Nearly all template formats use {{}} (e.g. [1]) or that and {% %}' definition
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kevinmarks
which doesn't have a list
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tantek
yes it does
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tantek
the next section
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tantek
I'll update the summary to make that clearer
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tantek
hey benwerd - want to demo more goodness to an even broader audience 2015-12-02 HWC SF?
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kevinmarks
a subhead of 'template formats that use {{}} might eb helpful
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tantek
nah - they're all a mess ;)
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kevinmarks
if we're taxonomising
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bear
or break "HTML based.." up into smaller chunks by language
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kevinmarks
'cos there's another subset like jade
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tantek
none of those are HTML based
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tantek
fixing now
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tantek
if you're using random punctuation instead of HTML, you're not HTML based
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bear
that's why I was suggesting just using language as the primary - html, js, ruby, python...
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kevinmarks
there's HTML-based (which barely exist); HTML plus escaping (widespread even though tantek dislikes them); html generating from other markup
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tantek.com
edited /template (+251) "update summary descriptions of HTML based vs Other"
(view diff)
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tantek
kevinmarks - what are specific examples of "HTML plus escaping"? None on wiki so far
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kevinmarks
the set defined by 'Nearly all template formats use {{}} (e.g. [1]) or that and {% %}' and PHP
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tantek
that's not HTML-based sorry
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tantek
that's ASCII-based at best :P
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tantek
since they assign new meaning to ASCII characters {{}} {% %}
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tantek
rather than assigning new meaning to HTML markup (e.g. class="mytemplatelang-special")
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kevinmarks
it is an important subset and needs a crosshead. Pick one you like
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tantek.com
edited /template (+173) "/* HTML based template formats */ add clarification new ASCII {} [] markup vs. actually re-using HTML markup"
(view diff)
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tantek
why is it an important subset?
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voxpelli
my main focus in non-static-page projects is to distinguish between what the code wants render and what a theme uses to render that – to decouple the code from the template files
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kevinmarks
because of widespread use
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kevinmarks
if we are to get an HTML-based one off the ground, we need to solve the iteration usecase
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tantek.com
created /templating (+22) "r"
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tantek
what is the iteration usecase/
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voxpelli
much prefer to have a theme system inbetween my code and the rest – that way I can more freely refactor my templates without changing my code and the other way around
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tantek.com
edited /jinja2 (+71) "link the term, not a phrase, uses %} new markup syntax"
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tantek
voxpelli: yup - good "why" reason for templates
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tantek
kevinmarks: the simple reason why such {{}} {% %} is bad is that it's extra syntax that's *unnecessary*.
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voxpelli
tantek: templates doesn't necessarily give that separation – it means you tie your code to a specific set of template files – often more or less with hard coded paths
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tantek
and thus makes usability worse
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tantek
voxpelli: what to you is the difference between a "theme" and a "template"?
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tantek
here let's start with this
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tantek
what is a theme?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "theme" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/107t
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tantek
voxpelli: ^^^ go for it
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bear
you need some extra syntax just for one item a template engine requires - including other files
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gRegorLove
On /template, the Templating with DOM link "but where is a simple markup example of an element that is repeated?" there's examples on the linked page.
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tantek.com
edited /template (+103) "/* Other template formats */ add jinja2, remove subheads that were confusing"
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tantek
bear - nah, you can use data-* attributes for example
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tantek
no extra syntax needed
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singpolyma
tantek: eew
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tantek
welcome back singpolyma !
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bear
data-* -- yikes that seems to be a stretch to avoid the small bit of syntatic sugar to allow for includes
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voxpelli
theme is an interchangeable set of [[templates]]
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loqi.me
created /theme (+75) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25/line/1448474170231 and dfn added by voxpelli"
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tantek
bear - it's more like syntactic vinnegar
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singpolyma
so the proposal is, like, <div data-tmpl-include="other-file.html"></div> ????
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bear
(I so want to toss in a "from someone who uses php...") but I am not (well, except in this passive aggressive version ;)
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tantek
singpolyma: no, no proposal, just a "for example" disproof of the assertion that "you *need* some extra syntax"
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tantek
bear - that's exactly why I dislike it !
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singpolyma
tantek: ok. fair. I think I would rephrase "you *want* some extra syntax"
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gRegorLove
hey now bear ;)
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bear
haha - yea, sorry - /me resets back to his normal level of snark
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gRegorLove
No worries
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tantek
everytime I'm typing in some "plain" HTML into a .php file it's yuckworthy
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bear
now that i'm in agreement on
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gRegorLove
I'm capable of enjoying PHP and poking fun at it.
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aaronpk
gRegorLove++ me too
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tantek
but what's more important than is my site working, and shipping new features that I can use
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Loqi
gRegorLove has 42 karma
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bear
I feel the same way everytime I add a {% %} block to my templates
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gRegorLove
Yes! I've arrived! No more karma, please.
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tantek
s/than/than that
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: but what's more important than that is my site working, and shipping new features that I can use
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bear
and adding a bit of the {} allows me to make quick changes to keep my site functional *and* maintainable
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bear
so it's a win-win for me
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bear
I need to document my new year indieweb itch-list soon
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bear
so I can have the list ready for the holiday season and jump right into it
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aaronpk
itchlist++
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Loqi
itchlist has 1 karma
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tantek
what is bear's indieweb itch-list?
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bear
i'm working on that right now - mostly to catchup on the latest micropub tweaks so I can finish the python micropub helper tool
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tantek.com
edited /User:Bear.im (+100) "/* Wiki Gardening Todo */ suggest an == Itches == section per /wikifying"
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bear
and be able to post to my site using my tablet from the couch instead of having to do the post-github-generate-deploy dance
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tantek
there you go bear - gave you a meta itch ;)
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bear
LOL - thanks! tantek++
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tantek
since you did say "please do add items to this if you feel a section needs some love... "
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tantek
I added it to the end of the list assuming typical add to end preferences and that you'd reprioritize how you see fit :)
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gRegorLove
Doing New Year self-challenges again this year?
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gRegorLove
Er, indieweb resolutions?
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aaronpk
did we call it resolutions last year? I don't like that framing but that's just me
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bear
Indieweb New Year Commitment
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gRegorLove
commitment or goal sounds good to me.
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bear.im
edited /User:Bear.im (+103) "wikify my itch list"
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aaronpk
oh yea we called it commitment last year
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aaronpk
ha i'd freaking better have my new site launched by jan 1. that's mine.
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kodfabrik.se
edited /theme (+1636) "Extending the theme page and adding examples"
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voxpelli
^ that there enables me to quickly retheme one of my entire projects without having to get into a maintinence hell
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voxpelli
so I can focus on shipping new features instead
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@codebear
Getting a jump on my #IndieWeb 2016 Commitment this year by starting the planning now — https://bear.im/bearlog/2015/329/indieweb-2016-commitment
(twitter.com/_/status/669581972243640320)
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tantek
bear++
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Loqi
bear has 84 karma
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tantek
right, these aren't new year's resolutions (which apply to next year), these are commitments to launch by 2016-01-01!
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tantek
speaking of, we should add that to the 2016-12-02 HWC !
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voxpelli
so many projects, so little time left on the year!
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tantek
what is 2016-01-01-commitments?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "2016-01-01-commitments" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/107u
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gRegorLove
Working on it
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gRegorLove
Almost done with the stub
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tantek
2016-01-01-commitments are implementation and launch commitments publicly made by the IndieWeb community to ship on their personal sites by 2016-01-01 00:00 local time. Previously: [[2015-01-01-commitments]].
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2016-01-01-commitments (+663) "stub with sections from last year"
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aaronpk
haha sorry
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gregorlove.com
edited /2016-01-01-commitments (+18) "/* See Also */"
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kodfabrik.se
edited /theme (+278) "Adding sources for the Drupal example"
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bear.im
edited /2016-01-01-commitments (+80) "adding my post"
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bear.im
edited /2016-01-01-commitments (+0) "oops- typo'd the date"
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bear.im
edited /User:Bear.im (+94) "add 2016-01-01 commitments"
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tantek
bear++ for being the first to state his 2016-01-01 commitment!
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bear
I was sitting here wondering what to do tomorrow during the t-day break... and realized that I could help spread the word earlier by starting mine
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tantek
great idea
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tantek
bear, for micropub delete/update - the sooner you can *try* to implement and provide feedback here - the better.
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tantek
aaronpk and others are *actively* iterating *this week* on that part of the spec
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bear
yea, that is what prompted me to move it up the list
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tantek
with the goal of having something solid/stable/implementation-tested even by next week for the Social Web WG f2f
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tantek
ideally we'd have micropub create/delete/edit interop by then
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tantek
but if not, then at least some level of implementation testing of it to make sure the approach is sensible
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bear
nods
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kodfabrik.se
edited /Node.js (+599) "Adding a project and a library of mine"
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tantek.com
edited /User:Bear.im (+28) "/* Itches */ linky and wiki markup"
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voxpelli
tantek: aaronpk: has there been any specific results or thoughts the edit/delete from that Micropub iterating yet?
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aaronpk
I haven't looked at it since last night
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kodfabrik.se
edited /User:Kodfabrik.se (+197) "Enhancing links + adding more thoughts on what I want to work in"
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voxpelli
aaronpk: I haven't looked at it since last quarter I think :P
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snarfed
this kind of depth makes me appreciate the work kevinmarks has been doing on hovercards (and run screaming from ever doing it myself): https://medium.com/slack-developer-blog/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-unfurling-but-were-afraid-to-ask-or-how-to-make-your-e64b4bb9254
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kodfabrik.se
edited /User:Kodfabrik.se (+0) "Fixing relspider links"
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aaronpk
snarfed: that makes me want to make an oembed service that reads microformats data
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kevinmarks
I have been resisting parsing ogp and twitter cards so far
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voxpelli
aaronpk: that should be pretty easy
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kevinmarks
I could make oembed from my various card efforts
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voxpelli
that would be cool
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aaronpk
yeah I think so. Interesting that Slack prioritized oEmbed over all others
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bear
it's a json blob they can cache
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voxpelli
they probably get video embeds and such then as well
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bear
I should add it to my static site generate ... <url>.oembed and have that be the json blob
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aaronpk
does that work?
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bear
no, but then I could make an oembed service by configuring nginx properly
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tantek
aaronpk - unsurprising as Cal (one of the lead if not the) an engineer at Slack co-created oembed ;)
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kevinmarks
how does a page specify its oembed endpoint?
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kevinmarks
Cal is CTO
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aaronpk
oh haha
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tantek
well there you go
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voxpelli
oh, an mf2 to oembed converter would be a nice hack to get something like Slack to support mf2 then
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aaronpk
oh it's with a link rel <link rel="alternate" type="application/json+oembed" href="...
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gRegorLove
What is oembed?
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Loqi
oEmbed is a 2009-era JSON-based format for providing information to construct a link-preview of a page https://indiewebcamp.com/oEmbed
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aaronpk
which means you don't even need nginx hackery
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kevinmarks
seems like I have most of that in unmung
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bear
oh, if it is an link rel - then my static site could have them also!
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tantek
yes, delegating oembed generating would be handy
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aaronpk
weird, I thought it required a separate oembed endpoint but apparently not
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aaronpk
that criticism on the wiki is not quite accurate then
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voxpelli
we probably have quite a few services that almost does everything needed already – I almost have everything in my webmention endpoint as well now (though hesitant to make it fetch non-webmention related URL:s)
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tantek
"endpoint" loosely speaking
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tantek
it is a separate URL
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tantek
just like feed files
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tantek
of information that should "just" be on the page
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aaronpk
i was looking in to this earlier actually. embed.ly is a service that does this, but there's an open source one too
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voxpelli
aaronpk: in most cases the discovery isn't used, as one of the benefits of oembed is to not having to fetch the HTML – if you have already fetched it then one can just as well use the metadata within it
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tantek
some seem to like side files
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bear
oembed.com shows the example of it being a seperate request with the url as the parameter
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tantek
bear - good point - perhaps you could help clarify the criticism on /oembed accordingly?
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voxpelli
so in most cases an oembed consumer has a preregistered list of URL:s to match against
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kevinmarks
I wonder if slack supports svg in a thmbnail url
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aaronpk
oh and here's their splashy marketing page https://iframely.com/
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aaronpk
used to be called oembedapi.com
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aaronpk
not sure iframely is much better ;)
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aaronpk
way to anchor your company name on the name of an obscure technology
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aaronpk
(says the guy who named webmention.io)
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voxpelli
eg. Embed.ly actually provides patterns one can use to match whether a URL can be fetches using their service: http://api.embed.ly/v1/api/services
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gRegorLove
pauses to reconsider buying marquee.ly
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bear.im
edited /User:Bear.im (+77) "/* Itches */"
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voxpelli
someone should try and see if Slack supports oembed discovery
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aaronpk
hm presumably they do if i'm reading that post right
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voxpelli
cool, they will likely be one of few then
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gRegorLove
kylewm: Not sure if you're tweaking Woodwind, but posts show the same background as the reply-context for me in Chrome.
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ben_thatmustbeme
anyone else intersted in getting private webmentions working by the new year?
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gRegorLove
Meaning sending webmentions for private posts?
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ben_thatmustbeme
well sending is easy
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gRegorLove
Generally interested, yes. Can't by the new year, though. I need private posts first. :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
being able to verify them is the hard part
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gRegorLove
what is private post?
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Loqi
private posts refer to posts or portions of posts which are private to either the author or to a limited audience chosen by the author https://indiewebcamp.com/private_post
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[kevinmarks]
so do I get an ombed for http://kevinmarks.com
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GWG
Afternoon
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Loqi
[bridgy] Kevin Marks replied '@jden415 @jongalloway the more I play with, the more linking to a text phrase seems most useful' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/669424163921203201)
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Loqi
[bridgy] Jon Galloway replied '@jden415 Nice. I like that they discuss CSS and XPath as well.' to a tweet that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention (https://twitter.com/jongalloway/status/669418769341677568)
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kevinmarks
that was a while ago
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kevinmarks
is there an oembed tester?
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kevinmarks
so, slack doesn't call oembed for pages
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kevinmarks
at least not mine
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kevinmarks
so that was a waste of time
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andicascadesf
8)
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davidpeach
hey y'all
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andicascadesf
Hi Kevin and David!
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andicascadesf
@aaronpk I have to reset the Eventbrite password for events@indiewebcamp.com. They sent me an email to reset the password, but it’s not working. Going to guess it’s because I have to click the link directly from the events@indiewebcamp.com email. When you get a chance, can you reset the password OR is there anyway I could login to events@indiewebcamp.com directly?
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aaronpk
andicascadesf: there is no account, that address just forwards to you. check your spam folder though.
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andicascadesf
I did receive the email, but when I went to reset the password, it’s not working.
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aaronpk
that's odd, I do this all the time with other services. there isn't really anything else I can do on this end.
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andicascadesf
hmm
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andicascadesf
It’s weird because I got into the account
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andicascadesf
Just realized that it allowed me to access it! It must be a bug because it says “there was a problem resetting the password.”
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andicascadesf
:-)
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aaronpk
so you got back in okay?
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andicascadesf
yes.
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tantek
what is AMP?
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Loqi
AMP is Accelerated Mobile Pages, a Google-led project that speeds up a subset of HTML through caching and dependencies on google: https://indiewebcamp.com/AMP
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tantek
perhaps add that link to ^^^ ?
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voxpelli
seems to be a trend, Facebook is also posting on WordPress: https://notify.co/
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tantek.com
edited /person-tag (+1623) "/* minimal separate field UI */ braindump an implementation strategy"
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tantek.com
edited /person-tag (+547) "/* minimal separate field UI */ a few more implementation details"
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kodfabrik.se
edited /template (+12) "/* See Also */ Add link to theme page"
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tantek.com
edited /person-tag (+52) "/* minimal separate field UI */ description"
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tantek
taking me longer to implement person-tag support than I expected, so I'm braindumping my thinking as I iterate and approach a solution: https://indiewebcamp.com/person-tag#minimal_separate_field_UI
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tantek
feedback welcome! (especially anything you think is "overthinking" the problem, if you can help simplify)
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andicascadesf
I got inspired and worked on a modern logo for IWC
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andicascadesf
LMK what you guys think – I removed the gradient to keep it simple.
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kevinmarks
the previous one was SVG - did you make a vector version?
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andicascadesf
yes, i have a vector version.
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andicascadesf
I wanted to see if you guys like it first
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andicascadesf
I made it in Illustrator
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andicascadesf
i’ll be back
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andicascadesf
going to grab food!
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kevinmarks
the previous one had the stylised letters centred over the words they abbreviate
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snarfed
!tell andicascadesf cool! lots of feedback earlier in case you missed it: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-11-25#t1448462922435 (scroll down from there)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kevinmarks
!tell andicascadesf the previous one almost had the words aligned with the stylised letters - yours is more asymmetric http://svgforall.appspot.com/s/2d
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kevinmarks
!tell andicascadesf I made a HWC clone logo that aligned them more http://svgforall.appspot.com/s/1k
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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acegiak
morning, all
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kevinmarks
hello acegiak
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Webmention-faq (+267) "add faq about the canonical spec url"
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Webmention-faq (+323) "how does webmention scale"
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gRegorLove
So we have three different sites for webmention now, heh. webmention.org, webmention.net, and IWC
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tantek
indeed I think aaronpk is addressing that
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gRegorLove
Why not redirect the .org and .net to IWC?
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gRegorLove
.net is the wiki page currently, including some <nowiki> tags
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aaronpk
working on it lol
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aaronpk
sandeep has the .org and hasn't been around lately
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tantek
that would be good to note (about the .org being out of date, and maybe with nowiki so as to not link to it)
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aaronpk
the .org redirects to github which is out of date
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tantek
yeah a github redirect does not look as "official"
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tantek
more like 'work in progress'
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tantek
which webmention is way beyond
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kevinmarks
updated the link from existing rel values
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kevinmarks
which was another point from the long thread before it went sideways
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