#indiewebcamp 2015-08-18

2015-08-18 UTC
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aaronpk must be time to take a break. getting stressed out about how i'm going to change how i'm handling webmentions
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tantek aaronpk: here's an easy break for you, could you pick a venue for PDX for next Wednesday? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-08-26-homebrew-website-club#Where
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-08-26-homebrew-website-club (+89) "/* RSVP */ Regrets for this week" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-16) "next HWC is Edinburgh" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+363) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ assume Brighton is happening unless adactio says not, update to Edinburgh and the week after" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-08-20-homebrew-website-club (+105) "add a next pointer so people coming here from /next-hwc have a way of finding the "usual" every other W night event" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2015-08-26-homebrew-website-club (+154) "optimistically add Brighton" (view diff)
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tantek !tell adactio any plans to to host another Homebrew Website Club Brighton on the 26th? Add venue etc.? https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-08-26-homebrew-website-club#Where
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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Loqi [mention] someone wrote a post that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ https://webmention.io/notification/hCMzXqXTDZl6iWY6uXoAYw
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Loqi [mention] Larry Halff, Erin Jo Richey, Jen Bradburn, Chris Heuer, Janet DeHart, Elizabeth Churchill, Ariel Waldman, Arshad Tayyeb, Cari Levay, Laura Gluhanich, Laura Helen Winn, Deb Schultz, Stacey Rivet, Marie Williams, Leah Culver, Ben Moskowitz, Lizz Noonan, Mary Specht, Stephanie Vacher, Olya Lapina, Nima Dilmaghani, Jina Anne, Megs ORorke, C Alaric Moore, Ann Larie Valentine, Matt Mullenweg, Joël Franusic, Lonnie Rae, Rohit Khare, Kara Murphy, Brynn Evans, Elisa Jo Harkness, Yan XZ, and Ian Fung were invited to an event: Homebrew
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Loqi [mention] someone wrote a post that linked to an event: Homebrew
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Loqi [mention] Sarah Dopp was invited to https://webmention.io/notification/-sA1YjrZ5AtYHqDMAwv0pA
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Loqi [mention] Anselm Hook, Lawrence Lessig, Jordan Harband, Paul Tarjan, and Matt Schaar were invited to https://webmention.io/notification/gENwPMg1ovUcykvwht-3vg
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Loqi [mention] Zoe Schiffer, David Prager, Peter Hirshberg, Paul Hammond, Simon Willison, and Justin David Kruger were invited to https://webmention.io/notification/Gc9f5iMHeWJkdwdGbeo3AA
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Loqi [mention] Jay Allen RSVPd no to https://webmention.io/notification/gjxXa5Q40IKxZD4cPpdJuw
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tantek oh hey cluster test! :D
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aaronpk very strange clustering
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Loqi [mention] Adam Rifkin, Thor Muller, Matthew Levine, Micah Snyder, Yoz Grahame, Aza Raskin, Christine Herron, Simon Law, and Liane Baskin were invited to https://webmention.io/notification/sv7xAp1ZmiglrgtRcSKaGw
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Loqi [mention] Colleen Taylor, Brian Behlendorf, James Craig, Nate Koechley, Kyle Huey, Jay Zalowitz, Karen Nguyen, Jordan McArthur, Katie Johnson, Lisa Brewster, Chris Messina, Joseph Smarr, Zibi Braniecki, and Sabrina Bruning were invited to https://webmention.io/notification/ymA0TxP47hVDA9WIuaGgmw
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Loqi [mention] Ben Ward, Jet Villegas, Laura Forrest, Om Malik, Jeff Hodsdon, Robin Andersen, Tony Rai, Monica Wilkinson, and Amy MacKinnon were invited to https://webmention.io/notification/prm-uxnzBP2gnu9m1Jmwmw
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Loqi [mention] Dharmishta Rood, Kevin Smokler, Mathias Crawford, Christopher Carfi, Bettina Warburg-Johnson, Faruk AteÅŸ, Martin Atkins, Charles Hope, Christian Crumlish, and Jessica Suttles were invited to https://webmention.io/notification/RMczL5SS8HpRc6V66BX82A
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Loqi [mention] Stephanie Haupt Sullivan Rewis, Zack Fischmann, Sarah Austin, Brendan Eich, Joichi Ito, Will Norris, Shing Wong, David Baron, Michael Owens, Mike Sofaer, Cariwyl Hebert, Dan Mosedale, Natalie Downe, George Kelly, Liza Sperling, Jeffrey Veen, Tom Coates, Jeff Rider, Matt Biddulph, Thomas Vander Wal, Jason Shellen, Loic Le Meur, Kitt Hodsden, Doc Searls, PJ Khalil, Daniel Appelquist, Daniel Burka, Beau Smith, Leonard Lin, Stephen Wyatt Bush, Jeremy Anderson, Pius Uzamere, Atul Varma, Arezu Aghasey, Jesse Vincent, Amy Muller, and Paul Mison were invited to https://webmention.io/notification/7z-4TPkPYLcwMGs2CX8FZA
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tantek but still, clustering! that's so much better than before!!
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[snarfed] woo clustering!
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[snarfed] launchanditerate++
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Loqi launchanditerate has 2 karma
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Loqi [mention] Jon Pierce RSVPd maybe to https://webmention.io/notification/4QVk7i5_E4nPdVjvQ-bQSw
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Loqi [mention] Mo Kudeki posted an invite: invited https://brid-gy.appspot.com/rsvp/facebook/688447421193285/168988330098986/10104605333556450 that linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-08-26-homebrew-website-club https://webmention.io/notification/crl9X8B-1suIKmuJ1zp_ZA
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[snarfed] doh
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[aaronpk] What is even going on there
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "even going on there" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/101d
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tantek hmm - perhaps time to look at bridgy's /invitation microformats
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tantek http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://brid-gy.appspot.com/rsvp/facebook/688447421193285/168988330098986/10104605333556450
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tantek well that's some pretty strange markup
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com (+18) "/* Interests */" (view diff)
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@dustinboston All of my Tweets since 2009 now live on my personal website, where they belong. #indieweb #ownyourdata - https://dblogit.com/notes/247270/ (twitter.com/_/status/633536483601739776)
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pfefferle good morning
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Jeena Oh I wasn't aware of the fact that Eric Eggert (yatil.net) is involved in the IndieWeb too, I (online) know him from back in the days when I was involved in the german HTML-scene
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Loqi Jeena: LukasRos left you a message on 8/15 at 3:57am: I liked your post about the IndieWebCamp so I wanted to literally ”žlike“ it and realized you have no rel=”žwebmention“ on the site so I had to send it manually. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-15/line/1439636273767
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Jeena !tell LukasRos I do have a rel=webmention but in the HTTP header. If you do curl -I https://jeena.net/indiewebcamp-2015 you'll see Link: <https://jeena.net/webmentions>; rel="webmention"
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat Jeena: I pointed that out to Lukas too, don’t know if he has updated his webmention sender yet though
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@myfreeweb @mnot nah, but registerProtocolHandler + postMessage + iframe = http://indiewebcamp.com/indie-config (twitter.com/_/status/633580980662616064)
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GWG Good morning.
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voxpelli Good morning GWG!
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voxpelli I'm planning on making a proper curlable mentions list – like what Twitter has – but unsure how to mark that up
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voxpelli http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation seems to assume that all comments are nested within the h-entry they are a comment on
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voxpelli only solution I can see right now is to wrap every comment in an h-entry and set u-url/u-uid to the URL of the actual post and hope that clients can dedupe/merge it – but that feels kind of wrong
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cweiske pushing work onto clients is one of the unspoken bases of the indieweb
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cweiske so it's ok
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kodfabrik.se edited /mentions (+140) "Adding myself as an example" (view diff)
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voxpelli cweiske: question is if one can really expect them to merge h-entries or if one should expect them to just pick the newest one as the most "correct" one – the latter seems more likely and also the more correct one
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voxpelli rethinking it – maybe I should just add the comments as h-entries themselves on the mentions page
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@stevepurkiss RT @ChrisAldrich: I'm hosting a BoF session for #IndieWeb for Drupal at the upcoming @ladrupal #DrupalCamp http://2015.drupalcampla.com/sessions/indieweb-movement-and-drupal (twitter.com/_/status/633594717465350145)
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voxpelli rhiaro: Now we're two with documented mentions pages ;)
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@cygnoir So @lastfm rolled out their redesign today and it removes features that made it great. Yet another case for #indieweb. (twitter.com/_/status/633605332703576064)
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@DrupalCoreRR The IndieWeb Movement and Drupal http://www.rightrelevance.com/search/articles/hero?article=bbcd72db09b09d1c165cbaf2e90d3d9a72b7d7d9&query=drupal%20core&taccount=drupalcorerr (twitter.com/_/status/633615095512207360)
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Zegnat voxpelli: I seem to remember something about aaronpk saying he always parses replies from their own permalinks. So when he parses an h-entry on your site, rather than parsing any embedded comments there he collects the permalinks for the comment and parses those pages. That’s just one implementation, but if everyone does something like that you do not really require to set-up a connection between comments and entries yourself, a
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Zegnat s long as the comment's page is marked-up correctly it will work.
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Zegnat voxpelli: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-09/line/1436454492915 - always grab canonical data from the permalink, not the page it is embedded on
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voxpelli Zegnat: problem is, this won't be a normal comment slist for a single h-entry but rather a mentions list, I think I will opt for h-feed/h-entry
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Zegnat ah, yes, that’s true. But I think the same is true in many ways: it is not up to you to correctly link the mentions to your own posts, you can leave it up to the client to fetch the canonical comment at the other side of the mention
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rhiaro ping _fran
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_fran hello!
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Loqi _fran: rhiaro left you a message 1 day, 2 hours ago: HWC Edinburgh on Thursday! https://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439806224213
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rhiaro Thanks Loqi
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Loqi you're welcome
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_fran oh, great! although I'm not sure I can make it this week --I'll see if I can replan this evening
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rhiaro arg, moredhel and R2ZER0 are also bailing
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rhiaro tbrb is pending..
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tbrb I'm probable
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_fran I though we were going for every other week, so I made other plans
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_fran unless I'm really confused and the last time was two weeks ago :)
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moredhel what am I bailing on?
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Loqi moredhel: rhiaro left you a message 1 day, 3 hours ago: HWC Edinburgh on Thursday! https://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439806081176
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moredhel oh :p
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@nobantu 4MoreDays of EBRegistration 4 Internet Identity Workshop Oct 27-29 https://www.eventbrite.com/e/internet-identity-workshop-xxi-21-2015b-tickets-16995007525 #IIW #VRM #UMA #CRM #indieweb #oAuth #IoT +More! (twitter.com/_/status/633644936806670336)
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@iotattack 4MoreDays of EBRegistration 4 Internet Identity Workshop Oct 27-29 https://www.eventbrite.com/e/internet-identity-workshop-xxi-21-2015b-tickets-16995007525 #IIW #VRM #UMA #CRM #indieweb #oAuth #IoT +More… (twitter.com/_/status/633645985001013248)
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@PetBoudreau 4MoreDays of EBRegistration 4 Internet Identity Workshop Oct 27-29 https://www.eventbrite.com/e/internet-identity-workshop-xxi-21-2015b-tickets-16995007525 #IIW #VRM #UMA #CRM #indieweb #oAuth #IoT +More… (twitter.com/_/status/633648853779120128)
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@iotattack 4MoreDays of EBRegistration 4 Internet Identity Workshop Oct 27-29 https://www.eventbrite.com/e/internet-identity-workshop-xxi-21-2015b-tickets-16995007525 #IIW #VRM #UMA #CRM #indieweb #oAuth #IoT +More… (twitter.com/_/status/633650163106627584)
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@PetBoudreau 4MoreDays of EBRegistration 4 Internet Identity Workshop Oct 27-29 https://www.eventbrite.com/e/internet-identity-workshop-xxi-21-2015b-tickets-16995007525 #IIW #VRM #UMA #CRM #indieweb #oAuth #IoT +More… (twitter.com/_/status/633653356276359168)
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tantek good morning pfefferle
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tantek keeps catching up on logs
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tantek looks like Bridgy's /invitation markup is fine actually. just that there's no author for the h-entry - which might be challenging to the summary / text notification code
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@iotattack 4MoreDays of EBRegistration 4 Internet Identity Workshop Oct 27-29 https://www.eventbrite.com/e/internet-identity-workshop-xxi-21-2015b-tickets-16995007525 #IIW #VRM #UMA #CRM #indieweb #oAuth #IoT +More… (twitter.com/_/status/633654652379250688)
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aaronpk voxpelli: what do you mean "mention list" vs "comment list"
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voxpelli aaronpk: https://indiewebcamp.com/mentions vs http://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation
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voxpelli aaronpk: I'm making a curlable version of http://voxpelli.com/mentions/
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aaronpk oh a full feed, not per post. gotcha
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voxpelli (thinking I'm then going to find a way to make that curlable version discoverable from the non-curlable page)
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voxpelli (so users of my endpoint can join the SWAT0-party)
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voxpelli aaronpk: does h-entry sound sensible to you?
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@PetBoudreau 4MoreDays of EBRegistration 4 Internet Identity Workshop Oct 27-29 https://www.eventbrite.com/e/internet-identity-workshop-xxi-21-2015b-tickets-16995007525 #IIW #VRM #UMA #CRM #indieweb #oAuth #IoT +More… (twitter.com/_/status/633657428752637952)
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aaronpk checks his current markup on http://aaronparecki.com/mentions
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voxpelli aaronpk: oh, you're not listed at https://indiewebcamp.com/mentions#IndieWeb_Examples !
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voxpelli ok, h-entries there as well – sounds like a good plan then
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aaronpk I do use h-entry right now, but I am wondering if h-cite makes more sense since my version of those posts is not the canonical
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voxpelli I want to be able to subscribe to mine – and h-cite can't be part of an h-feed and consumed by any kind of feed readers :/
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aaronpk hm yeah
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voxpelli thinking that my mentions page with a PuSH-hub will be what drives my push notifications
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voxpelli hooking that into eg. IFTTT
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aaronpk cool. that's how I want https://indiewebcamp.com/mention-app to work
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voxpelli would be kind of neat if h-feed could contain other content than h-entry
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aaronpk there's no technical reason it can't
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voxpelli just that no clients would know how to handle it
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aaronparecki.com edited /mentions (+142) "add myself, sort by date" (view diff)
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Zegnat aaronpk: rather than h-cite, would it make sense to mark up the mentions as reposts?
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aaronpk heh interesting point
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Zegnat then you would keep them as h-entries on an h-feed, without claiming they are yours
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harryreeder.co.uk edited /events/2015-08-20-homebrew-website-club (+11) "/* RSVP */ Add self RSVP. Will only be around for a limited time this week." (view diff)
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www.boffosocko.com edited /Events (+676) "/* Upcoming */ Added BoF session for DrupalCampLA on 8/29/15" (view diff)
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tantek nice!
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snarfed tantek: just fyi, bridgy doesn't include invite authors (ie inviters) because fb doesn't expose them
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/319
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tantek snarfed, I wonder in that case if the "author" should be "Facebook" ?
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snarfed hmm, interesting
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snarfed the u-url arguably covers that
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tantek true! so clients *could* infer/imply it
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snarfed right
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tantek that's the question - do we want to encourage that kind of fallback behavior?
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tantek or do we want publishers to do it?
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snarfed i try to make bridgy's markup explicit, provide just what's actually known, and not try to extrapolate
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snarfed so clients can choose
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snarfed seems like whenever anyone asks "why doesn't bridgy do X?" these days, or "why is bridgy weird about Y?," the answer is "because facebook"
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snarfed whee
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gRegorLove becausefacebook--
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Loqi becausefacebook has -1 karma
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cleverdevil heh
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cleverdevil this explains a lot.
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cleverdevil no matter what i do with bridgy, it doesn't seem to pick up anything from facebook.
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cleverdevil but, I sort of don't mind too much :)
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snarfed huh
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snarfed cleverdevil: do you have an example?
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cleverdevil let me see if I can dig one up.
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cleverdevil sec.
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snarfed are the fb posts you're looking at maybe friends-only? bridgy only backfeeds public posts
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cleverdevil who knows, that could certainly be the case
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cleverdevil gotta run to a meeting, but I'll see if I can find any good examples when I get back
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snarfed cleverdevil: sgtm. here are more things to check: https://www.brid.gy/about#missing
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gRegorLove Super helpful Twitter email spam: "So-and-so said something"
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gRegorLove No way!
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snarfed also odd that cleverdevil's known isn't using bridgy's u-urls. e.g. the wms on http://cleverdevil.io/2015/disney-is-building-a-massive-star-wars-world-at-disneyland should link to twitter and say "on twitter.com." cc benwerd
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cleverdevil yes.
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cleverdevil that's the example I found too :)
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cleverdevil I wonder if its maybe something in the Known theme I am using?
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benwerd cleverdevil: It's possible. We're planning on releasing a new version today that incorporates some fixes.
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cleverdevil cool.
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cleverdevil it will be my first upgrade of Known.
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cleverdevil crosses his fingers and toes.
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benwerd It should just slot right over the top :)
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benwerd Noting that Known 0.8.3 has been released and is available in the usual places (https://withknown.com/opensource)
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cleverdevil \o/
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cleverdevil has upgraded and it was easy.
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KartikPrabhu known++ for easy upgrades
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Loqi known has 8 karma
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KartikPrabhu 8! only 8
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KartikPrabhu benwerd++ for known easy upgrades
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Loqi benwerd has 87 karma
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KartikPrabhu erinjo++ for same
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Loqi erinjo has 12 karma
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benwerd erinjo++ for making sure everything is actually sane (and for the navigation work that'll make it into the next version)
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Loqi erinjo has 13 karma
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KartikPrabhu benwerd: installtion and upgrade seems to be the biggest pain point with most indieweb things. very nice work with Known in that regard
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benwerd Lots of people helped with that, including kylewm in a significant way
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KartikPrabhu opensource++
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Loqi too much karma!
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benwerd opensource++ for sure
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benwerd Not enough karma for open source, Loqi.
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Loqi who, me?
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snarfed whoa, https://github.com/aaronpk/Atlas
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snarfed aaronpk is this basically p3k 2.0 open sourced?
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aaronpk basically i'm splitting up p3k into a bunch of microservices, and making those open source
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aaronpk the progress of my readmes is lagging behind :)
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snarfed cool
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aaronpk Atlas is just the part that deals with map data
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aaronpk http://atlas.p3k.io/
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aaronpk (waiting on startssl to issue a cert)
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GWG aaronpk, any limitations on using your services?
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aaronpk be nice?
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aaronpk feel free to hit the timezone API as much as you want. it's pretty fast because it's just doing a lookup in code, not even hitting a DB https://github.com/aaronpk/Atlas/blob/master/p3k/Timezone.php
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GWG aaronpk: I have that location plugin for WordPress. Might add support
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tantek delayed reply: snarfed, makes sense (re: bridgy and invitations)
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tantek interetsting from #withknown: https://twitter.com/offrayLC/status/633384720919830529
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@offrayLC @withknown There is any way to tweet a status post after is published only in known? (twitter.com/_/status/633384720919830529)
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tantek after-the-fact-POSSE
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tantek or delayed-POSSE if you planned to do it that way
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aaronpk that's been a todo for me for al ong time
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tantek is anyone doing that? or rather, has anyone done it?
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tantek which? the after-the-fact? or the planned-delayed?
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aaronpk after the fact
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tantek technically, ALL my POSSEing is explicit "after-the-fact" since the POSSE step is a separate user action for me than my "post to my server step" (scp).
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aaronpk most of the time it's because I post a photo on instagram and then also want that photo on twitter
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tantek and your site doesn't auto-POSSE to Twitter when it gets posts via OwnYourGram?
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tantek (I mean it could)
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aaronpk right, because I definitely don't want all my photos going to twitter
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tantek why not?
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tantek you don't post that often on IG
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aaronpk different audiences
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tantek lol
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tantek I have completely lost any sense of meaningful "audience" on Twitter
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aaronpk it still feels more public to me than instagram does
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tantek except that I know that somehow some posts reach some people
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tantek fair
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tantek I feel that too - despite my IG being "technically" as public as Twitter
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tantek well perhaps not quite as public
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tantek IG is js;dr, whereas Twitter is curlable
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aaronpk it's certainly far more public now than it was a few years ago, since at least there is a website for instagram now
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tantek technically speaking, not quite as public
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tantek sure a js;dr website
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KevinMarks there's been a website since 2012, except I had to write it
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tantek KevinMarks: sure, there was Gridstagram too
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aaronpk before, there weren't user profile pages on IG so you couldnt go find all of someone's photos unless you were using the app
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aaronpk so while IG isn't being archived by crawlers, it's still effectively as public to people with browsers
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tantek sorta - it's also slower than Twitter, which makes it less public perceptually
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aaronpk i dunno twitter's getting pretty slow too :P
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tantek my twitter is pretty darn fast because I access it in FF with NoScript :D
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gRegorLove http://websta.me/ works without js for browsing instagram.
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gRegorLove Makes an RSS feed, too
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gRegorLove Though I get an internal server error trying to unmung it http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Fwebsta.me%2Frss%2Fn%2Fgregorlove&raw=on
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snarfed1 ah and it's just single user rss feeds too
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snarfed (always interested in alternatives to https://instagram-atom.appspot.com/ etc)
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@davidpeach1 New area on my site launched - Album listening tracker. #indieweb #ownyourdata. Manually keeping a record o... http://davidpea.ch/notes/1468 (twitter.com/_/status/633764117539479552)
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gRegorLove Interesting, Webstagram has a repost feature. I just saw a friend wishing for that feature in IG. http://websta.me/p/218050635585149071_3126653
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KevinMarks you know about http://www.pestagram.com/tag/indieweb
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KevinMarks all h-feed marked up
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KevinMarks tags, places: http://www.pestagram.com/loc/4392034
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gRegorLove Yeah
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KevinMarks people: http://www.pestagram.com/user/2975244
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KevinMarks handy for woodwind
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gRegorLove I've subscribed to a couple feeds with it. It would be nice to have a higher resolution in the h-feed
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KevinMarks hm, I cna look at the api and see if there is a better one
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KevinMarks they have 150x150, 306x306 and 612x612
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KevinMarks img srcset?
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KevinMarks looks like kylewm parser out the u-photo rather than using the e-content
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KevinMarks so I could add a u-photo link to the bigger one and he'd use that
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snarfed KevinMarks: agreed, https://granary-demo.appspot.com/ only sees those three sizes too
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KevinMarks hm, the template I have locally doesn't match the site
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uwe Greetings, I have a random question, seeking random help :) ; I want a very simple web based thing, that allows me/people to dump files and folders on a storage, and be able to add data to it, if its only keywords, and one can then view and search it and download those files, ideally it'll read metadata as well ...
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Loqi gives uwe a very simple web based thing
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uwe Loqi, :)
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snarfed uwe: something like https://owncloud.org/ ?
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