#indiewebcamp 2015-08-17

2015-08-17 UTC
Garbee and lukebrooker joined the channel
#
aaronpk
M-kegan: so I just upgraded to ubuntu 14.04, and running the installer it fails with "mock requires setuptools>=17.1. Aborting installation"
KartikPrabhu and frzn_ joined the channel
#
aaronpk
i don't know anythign about python dependencies
#
aaronpk
considers installing the matrix server in Go
#
aaronpk
ah I had to upgrade setuptools after upgrading my os
mlncn, mdik_ and M-aaronpk joined the channel
#
M-aaronpk
oh the "m-" prefix is from the matrix bridge... that is not what I want
#
aaronpk
!tell M-kegan I couldn't get the matrix-micropub client installed, it says "Error: Cannot find module 'matrix-appservice-micropub'" when I try to run app.js
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
yakker, mdik and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek
wow how am I just now reading Jeena's post! https://jeena.net/indiewebcamp-2015 such a great empassioned summary.
#
Loqi
tantek: KevinMarks left you a message 8 hours, 53 minutes ago: that would be the whitespace collapsing rpoblem in http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#whitespace_collapsing_revisited http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439747524221
#
tantek
!tell KevinMarks, uh, blaming the plumbing for a UI error is itself a deductive error :P
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
uh
uh oh
#
uh
yeah
#
Loqi
uh: tantek left you a message 21 seconds ago: the plumbing for a UI error is itself a deductive error :P http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439779551581
#
blaming
and?
#
Loqi
blaming: tantek left you a message 35 seconds ago: the plumbing for a UI error is itself a deductive error :P http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439779551581
#
tantek
!tell KevinMarks (speaking of UI errors ;) uh, blaming the plumbing for a UI error is itself a deductive error :P
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
cstanhope, dpg1 and scor joined the channel
snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek
got an interesting question yesterday on Twitter and figured the answer might interest some here (haven't shared before)
#
@al3xandru
@t what format/tools do you use for the personal log?
(twitter.com/_/status/632780487803584512)
#
tantek
note: *personal log* (as in journal), not blog or blogging software etc.
#
@t
@al3xandru 1 .txt file per bim, \n\nYYYY-DDD mm/dd\n day header, optional \nHH:MM timestamp on entries between them. (ttk.me t4ci1)
(twitter.com/_/status/633117539351011329)
scor and snarfed joined the channel
#
@andigalpern
Dear @indiewebcamp, if I use Google Analytics on my own domain, do I still fully own my data?
(twitter.com/_/status/633136812668485632)
colintedford joined the channel
#
snarfed
mmm trolling
#
pokr
paying off ICANN for your personal domain , lols
#
pokr
why not just create viral content on 8ch. who needs an ego to attribute it all back to?
#
pokr
still wondering why IWC people seem completely wedded to corporate/proprietary/non-indie Twitter/GoogleHangouts stuff
#
pokr
i think theyre all trollign and work for big lame companies like Mozilla/Google
#
pokr
or it's like some sort of "for fun" thing. for me it's serious business
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
tantek
hey pokr - what's your personal site?
#
@indiewebcamp
@andigalpern "fully"? No. See TOS. GA is a starting point. There are other hosted & OSS options http://indiewebcamp.com/analytics ^@t
(twitter.com/_/status/633142242031501313)
mdik_ joined the channel
#
colintedford
Do we add microformats to plain pages (ie not a post or an index)? If so, what kind? I don't see a "page" page on the wiki; closest is /wiki-page.
#
colintedford
I thought I remembered hearing that the wiki's pages were marked up w/ h-entry, but that seems to be not true.
#
colintedford
Actually, GWG, this is sort of a Wordpress question ^
#
tantek
colintedford: not WordPress specific, and yes, h-entry is a good simple page-level markup
#
tantek
"page" page is funny :)
#
tantek
what is a page?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "page" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/101W
#
colintedford
tantek: Yeah, I just meant that I'm dealing w/ a WP install & thought he might have dealt w/ it already.
#
colintedford
tantek: I did feel a little funny searching the wiki for "page" :)
#
tantek
page is short for webpage on the IndieWeb, and can by default be marked up with h-entry unless it serves amore specific purpose. see also [[permalink]], [[navigation]].
#
loqi.me
created /page (+195) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439788373001 and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
#
colintedford
Cool, thanks!
#
tantek
what is pagination?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "pagination" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/101X
#
Loqi
tantek has 229 karma
#
tantek.com
edited /page (+177) "expand dfn, linky, see also"
(view diff)
#
tantek
what is a page?
#
Loqi
page is short for webpage on the IndieWeb, and can by default be marked up with h-entry (like body class=h-entry) for link-preview purposes unless the page serves a more specific purpose like a homepage or an event https://indiewebcamp.com/page
#
@andigalpern
RT @indiewebcamp: @andigalpern "fully"? No. See TOS. GA is a starting point. There are other hosted & OSS options http://indiewebcamp.com/analytics ^@t
(twitter.com/_/status/633145838626205696)
#
tantek
pagination is a UI pattern for navigation across (typically chronologically) sequential pages that show multiple posts.
#
loqi.me
created /pagination (+146) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439788473990 and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
edited /2013/Hollywood/Pagination (+132) "put archived header with link to its camp"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
edited /pagination (+261) "expand dfn, linky, see also"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
edited /push-vs-pull (+15) "linky"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
edited /navigation (+21) "linky"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
edited /archive (+4) "/* Shane Becker */ linky"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
edited /Indie.js (+4) "/* indie-entries */ linky"
(view diff)
#
tantek.com
edited /pagination (+33) "also applies to single post at a time pagination"
(view diff)
#
tantek
colintedford: see what you made me do ;)
#
tantek
what is pagination?
#
Loqi
pagination is a UI pattern for navigation across (typically chronologically) sequential pages that show one or more posts such as permalink post pages, archives, search results, and lists of tagged posts https://indiewebcamp.com/pagination
#
colintedford
muahahaha
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: colintedford: was the question about "static pages"? Should "static pages" still be h-entry?
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: even static pages typically have a name (title), and were created at some discrete point in time.
#
tantek
thus h-entry makes sense for them too!
#
KartikPrabhu
i see. good to know
#
tantek
especially if you have a CMS like WP where it's "all in the database" anyway
#
colintedford
KartikPrabhu: Yup
#
colintedford
I look forward to having a CMS where it's not "all in the database" someday ;)
#
pokr
pretty sure the IWC people are trolls. tried for years to watch their live "Camps", using every html5 browser on linux i can find. convinced Google wont let you see the crap w/o an account or a mac or flashplugin or something. finally youtuibe'DL'd it and it was a room full of people on macs. the most jailed, anti-freedom tech company of all time
#
pokr
we know that you need 2 implementations of something to get W3C approval, and google cant just invent shit like microosft. so it has to pay mozilla to make the 2nd implementation as some kiond of puppet proxy. ther'es nothing indie about makintg stuff that relies on shit made by 2 companies but ultimately funded b one
#
pokr
then we have people like tantek, who have these rambling screeds against email.. something decentralized, a plethora of open implementations, and most of hte complaints seem to be rooted in stuff that's a UI decision of certian implementors. like having an "inbox"
#
tantek
pokr - it sounds like you're upset about a bunch of things, but if you'd like to work on your personal website, we can help with that.
KevinMarks__, snarfed and [aaronpk] joined the channel
#
[aaronpk]
Hey pokr, friendly reminder that IndieWebCamp is focused on the idea of owning your online identity.
#
tantek.com
edited /bim (+123) "tweak dfn, cite additional links (now that I've finally posted one on my own site)"
(view diff)
#
M-kegan
Pythons packaging is downright terrible. We didn't know that at the time of course
#
[aaronpk]
While things like not relying on closed source software, and using only open protocols for video and voice communication are interesting, and while many people involved with IndieWebCamp are also interested in those, they are not the focus of this community
#
Loqi
M-kegan: aaronpk left you a message 4 hours, 16 minutes ago: I couldn't get the matrix-micropub client installed, it says "Error: Cannot find module 'matrix-appservice-micropub'" when I try to run app.js http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439776052526
#
M-kegan
I probably npm linked the micropub client which is why it's whining about it missing
snarfed joined the channel
#
M-kegan
That or you didn't run npm install?
#
M-kegan
Looks like either of those will work, but typically I forgot to put that in the readme, bah.
#
tantek
colintedford: are you considering switching to flat /file-storage ? or just hoping/looking for a "CMS" that uses one?
#
colintedford
tantek: yes, definitely want flat/file storage
#
colintedford
preferably not coded by me since I'm not a programmer
#
tantek
semi-related, since I use flat-files time-sharded by bim, and realized that didn't have good search-findable definition, went ahead and posted: https://twitter.com/t/status/633156249715142656
#
@t
bim definition noun; plural: bims 1. each of six newcal periods into which a year is divided. 2. 61 days, ... http://tantek.com/2015/228/t3/bim-definition
(twitter.com/_/status/633156249715142656)
#
colintedford
(though I do want to learn)
#
tantek
colintedford: good to know. I think someone might be working on a flat-file backend for Known though I'm not certain
#
tantek
I've been open sourcing bits and pieces of /Falcon as they mature and I can convert them to CASSIS but it's nowhere near ready for someone else to try on their own site.
#
colintedford
tantek: ooh, I hope so! I remember seeing benwerd mention that that could be done a while back, and it thrilled me
#
tantek
yes, Known is pretty awesome. good team there working on it too, benwerd & erinjo
#
colintedford
currently in the running besides hypothetical flat-storage Known are /Kirby and /neonblog
#
colintedford
(of course, I realized neonblog sounded like a maybe-good fit a couple weeks after emmak moved on from it :/ )
cweiske joined the channel
#
tantek
colintedford: I've been really impressed with emmak's iterations, on neonblog, and what she showed she was working on next at IWC Portland
#
tantek
I think anything she opensourced would be worth taking a look at
gRegorLove joined the channel
#
colintedford
tantek: definitely planning to at least study it
#
colintedford
i'm also very impressed (in my layperson way)
#
colintedford
haha, i just got top-level microformats into my wordpress theme! :D
#
colintedford
(on a div not body b/c wordpress magic)
#
colintedford
i guess now i have to check if the incomplete mf i'd already put in matches up
eschnou joined the channel
#
M-kegan
!tell aaronpk try "npm install matrix-appservice-micropub" or "npm link; npm link matrix-appservice-micropub"
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
lukebrooker joined the channel
#
tantek
colintedford++ good work! Do you have a sample "page" that you'd like checked?
#
Loqi
colintedford has 4 karma
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
colintedford
tantek: my plain "pages" just have h-entry (& legacy hentry) so far
#
colintedford
I guess I should mark up the name and main content -- anything else?
#
tantek
yes definitely markup the p-name
#
tantek
hmm - looks like you already have good enough legacy hentry markup too
#
tantek
with the "title" marked up with entry-title
#
tantek
I think currently that will parse as an entry inside an entry, since you have hentry inside h-entry
#
cweiske
do we have a tool that warns about superfluous mf1 markup?
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: the legacy embedding thing seems to be common for wordpress. even snarfed's site has it
#
tantek
cweiske: if the legacy markup "works" (as it most often should, per backcompat parsing), it's not superfluous per se
#
tantek
the challenge in particular is helping transition
#
cweiske
yep, but maybe I have both mf2 and mf1 markup
#
cweiske
s/maybe//
#
Loqi
cweiske meant to say: yep, but  I have both mf2 and mf1 markup
#
tantek
cweiske - I suppose then the question is what do you want
#
cweiske
a tool that tells me what to remove
#
tantek
implying you only want uf2?
#
tantek
ah ok
#
tantek
since the parsers all do explicit detection of classic mf1, they could be altered to *warn* when they see duplicate mf1 classes on the same elements as mf2, or especially warn if they see mf1 versions of classes *inside* mf2 classes.
#
tantek
that would be quite useful - good idea cweiske
#
KartikPrabhu
debug mode for parsers?
#
cweiske
dev mode
#
tantek
more like a Linter
#
colintedford
tantek: oops, i have hentry *inside* h-entry?
#
cweiske
my jsonmapper lib for example has options to warn about unknown properties in classes that exist in json data. we enable that during development to get notified when json data changes
#
tantek
colintedford: yes, on the <article> inside the <div>
#
tantek
cweiske: makes sense
#
tantek
colintedford: is the "2004–2015" on your page generated or static?
#
cweiske
on live systems, it is deactivated
#
KartikPrabhu
arbitrary nesting check for mf1 inside mf2 will be hard as an algorithm
#
tantek
if it's generated, then you could markup the latest year as dt-updated at least, assuming the page is updated then
#
cweiske
KartikPrabhu, there could be a "warn about mf1 classes"
#
cweiske
setting
#
tantek
yes, cweiske is right, that would be a good place to start with a linter
#
KartikPrabhu
cweiske: hmm yes good first step
#
KartikPrabhu
then possibly document common patterns mostly from Wordpress and target those?
#
tantek
cweiske: btw did you see http://stream.withknown.com/2015/how-to-do-more-with-rss-feeds ? There's probably some stuff there that's worth adding to /RSS if you're interested.
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: definitely
#
cweiske
no, I did not see that
#
cweiske
tantek, why should that be put into /RSS?
#
tantek
because of the real world use-cases that are documented for *still* using RSS!
#
colintedford
tantek: shoot, that article hentry is coming from a wordpress function :(
#
KartikPrabhu
colintedford: yes wordpress by default inserts a lot of mf1 markup
#
colintedford
KartikPrabhu: I know :(
#
KartikPrabhu
another reason I stay away from wordpress, a lot mof mix between code, filter, template etc..
#
colintedford
tantek: would just removing the higher hentry work ok? i'm not sure i can remove the article one w/out delving deeper than i'd like
#
colintedford
ok, good, that's easy
#
tantek
I mean yes to both the h-entry and hentry that are higher level
#
tantek
really you should only have one for the page as a whole
#
tantek
and it looks like you already did have one!
#
tantek
the pin13.net tool is useful for checking that!
#
KartikPrabhu
colintedford: before adding more mf2 markup always a good idea to check with existig parsers.
#
tantek
right, see what you already have!
#
colintedford
I mistakenly thought I'd replaced the function that produced that hentry (obviously didn't look very closely)
#
colintedford
I had seen what I had a while back
#
KartikPrabhu
even in mf2 most times default implicit parsing is good enough
#
colintedford
but then didn't touch my site for a few months
#
colintedford
the one that makes the article hentry spits out a bunch of other classes, too
#
colintedford
I guess maybe mf2 will have to wait
#
colintedford
still tinkering w/ wordpress b/c not quite ready to jump ship, but i don't want to explore its darkest recesses
#
colintedford
oh, i see, i was confused b/c I replaced the semi-superfluous hfeed that GWG wants wordpress to stop putting in.
#
colintedford
goodbye, baby's first php function
#
colintedford
welcome back funky hfeed
#
tantek
colintedford: indeed, the challenge of fully upgrading a WordPress install from mf1 to *only* mf2 is something I think GWG's been working on for a while, largely made complicated by what KartikPrabhu referred to - "lot of mix between code, filter, template etc."
#
colintedford
tantek: uch, yeah. they did post_class() in a way that doesn't let me add classes to whatever it's generating classes for; otherwise it'd be easy :(
#
colintedford
reidab: page date: "2015" is auto-generated, but any given page won't necessarily have been update in the current year.
#
colintedford
sorry, reidab, I meant re:
#
colintedford
tantek: re: page date: "2015" is auto-generated, but any given page won't necessarily have been update in the current year.
Jihaisse joined the channel
#
colintedford.com
edited /User:Colintedford.com (+218) "Put Microformats 2 on hold 'til I stop using Wordpress or someone dispels WP's magic mf1."
(view diff)
#
colintedford.com
edited /User:Colintedford.com (+150) "/* Wants */ (Unified) Indieweb messaging, more so than before."
(view diff)
#
colintedford
ben_thatmust: I'd love to see your unified messaging project documented on your user page!
#
KartikPrabhu
what is indeweb-messaging?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "indeweb-messaging" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/101Y
#
cweiske
what is a typo?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "typo" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/101Z
#
KartikPrabhu
what is indieweb-messaging?
#
colintedford
(or the existing info linked from there)
#
tantek
what is messaging?
#
Loqi
messaging refers to one user sending another user a message (memo, letter, etc.) https://indiewebcamp.com/messaging
#
colintedford
KartikPrabhu: I was thinking of the stuff mentioned at https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge/messaging
#
colintedford
(which I'm psyched to find that page now, b/c before all I had was memories from the logs & no luck on the wiki)
#
colintedford
I guess I should link that from /messaging
#
colintedford.com
edited /messaging (+209) "/* Brainstorming */ Add Ben Roberts' unified messaging project"
(view diff)
#
colintedford
!tell ben_thatmust, benthatmustbeme: I'd love to see your unified messaging project documented on your user page! I linked to the 2015 Cambridge session from /messaging .
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
j12t and friedcell joined the channel
#
colintedford.com
edited /Kirby (+364) "dev's enthusiastic about indieweb. todo: get examples from chat logs."
(view diff)
#
KartikPrabhu
what is Kirby?
#
Loqi
Kirby is a filed-based CMS https://indiewebcamp.com/Kirby
#
KartikPrabhu
colintedford++ for updating wiki based on itches
#
Loqi
colintedford has 5 karma
#
colintedford
aw shuxles
evalica joined the channel
#
colintedford.com
edited /database-antipattern (+19) "link to /database (even though it's stubby)"
(view diff)
sanduhrs and adactio joined the channel
#
colintedford.com
edited /User:Colintedford.com (+770) "/* Flat-file storage */ neonblog & Kirby, Known storage rumor, relink Pelican & demote it & Nikola, remove Bear ditching Pelican b/c old reasons"
(view diff)
j12t and Sebastien-L joined the channel
#
colintedford.com
edited /Kirby (+581) "webmention plugin, indieweb examples"
(view diff)
stream7, glennjones, eschnou, j12t and mdik joined the channel
#
rhiaro.co.uk
created /events/2015-08-20-homebrew-website-club (+2011) "Created page with "<div class="h-event vevent"> = <span class="p-name summary">Homebrew Website Club Meetup</span> = == Details == === When === <span class="dt-start dtstart"><time class="value">...""
(view diff)
edpw joined the channel
#
rhiaro
!tell tantek, aaronpk: can I update the wiki side menu to add Edinburgh to HWC link? (how?)
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
rhiaro
!tell tbrb, R2ZER0, camerongray, moredhel, Gumiho, anm, KitB: HWC Edinburgh on Thursday! https://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tbrb
rhiaro++
#
Loqi
tbrb: rhiaro left you a message 19 seconds ago: HWC Edinburgh on Thursday! https://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439806081176
#
Loqi
rhiaro has 144 karma
#
tbrb
I probably can't make it though, have some other things happening this thursday
#
rhiaro
d'aww
#
rhiaro
!tell _fran: HWC Edinburgh on Thursday! https://indiewebcamp.com/next-hwc
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
eschnou, lukebrooker, frzn, j12t and stream7_ joined the channel
#
kodfabrik.se
edited /private-webmention (+38) "Adding link to private messaging brainstorm"
(view diff)
stream7, ttepasse, mdik, edpw, LanceyWork, j12t and lukebrooker joined the channel
#
kegan
!tell aaronpk Added onNickConflict to the node-irc lib
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
squeakytoy2, fkooman, j12t, stream7 and loic_m joined the channel
#
@RikMende
.@nxD4n un tout grand merci pour ton plugin tt-rss-known https://github.com/danito/tt-rss-known ! #indieweb #rss
(twitter.com/_/status/633255376587227137)
friedcell, eschnou, _fran, nedorito, edpw, shiflett, stream7_, scoates, mlncn and modem joined the channel
TinoKremer, fourtonfish, j12t and tantek joined the channel
#
tbrb
rhiaro: Just got my h-card set up on my site now
#
cweiske
is there a php feed library that understands h-feeds?
#
voxpelli
cweiske: is there such a library for any language? :P
#
cweiske
i thought someone already made a patch for simplepie or so
#
voxpelli
simplepie seems like a pretty dead project :/
#
voxpelli
https://packagist.org/packages/mf2/mf2/dependents shows no published Composer packages that depends on the main mf2-package that would consume RSS as well
#
cweiske
if you know a better one
#
voxpelli
simplepie is the only one I've used
fkooman joined the channel
#
voxpelli
cweiske: a search on Packagist finds libraries like https://github.com/fguillot/picoFeed as well
#
voxpelli
many seems to be pretty bloated and not just do the parsing but also a hundred different things around it – like fetching the feed and such – not really what I would want from a library :/
#
cweiske
the world is so small. this lib is used in the ownCloud feed reader, and I had contact with the author himself a bit alreayd
#
voxpelli
the picoFeed one?
#
voxpelli
(zend-feed wasn't small btw, it just didn't have many dependencies :P My mistake)
#
voxpelli
jumping between PHP and Node.js makes for interesting impressions – one favors big object oriented things with lots of interfaces and inheritance, the other small tiny modules that's composed together
#
tantek
KevinMarks: just noticed that feed.unmung.com/feed?feed = requires explicit http(s) - could you perhaps allow http-less URLs as a param and imply http in that case?
#
Loqi
tantek: rhiaro left you a message 4 hours, 4 minutes ago: can I update the wiki side menu to add Edinburgh to HWC link? (how?) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439805965694
#
rhiaro
tantek: thanks!
#
tantek
and /topic in here :)
#
rhiaro
ooh yeah, I should do that
#
tantek
events are hard ;)
#
rhiaro
Don't we have technology to automate these things? Loqi, lend a hand?
#
tantek
oh and /events of course for the record
#
rhiaro
oh, what's on /events.. haven't even looked at that
#
tantek
uh what
#
tantek
it's also linked from the sidebar
#
rhiaro
This is too many things to update
#
voxpelli
cweiske: looks like it would require quite some refactoring of the parser classes in picoFeed though :/ Right now it expects all formats to be XML-based. Would probably be good, but perhaps a bit too much job.
#
rhiaro
tantek: I can't change /topic, says it needs ops
#
tantek
rhiaro: ah, then the trick is just type your /topic line in here, preceded by keyword adminhelp and someone with ops should see it (convention from #microformats)
#
tantek
adminhelp /topic this is the new topic
#
rhiaro
Also /Sidebar is 'protected', can't edit that either
#
tantek
rhiaro - yes I know - too many things to update. I definitely struggle with it. sad thing is that calendaring sw sucks at this too.
#
rhiaro
Ideal process: create indie event -> send webmention to wiki -> updates happen
#
rhiaro
or something
#
rhiaro
or, if there was just one place that listed events
#
tantek
rhiaro: /events is the one place
#
tantek
everything else should be derived from that
#
rhiaro
plus the individual pages, and the hwc bottom menu thing
#
tantek
rhiaro: /events is the one place *that lists events*
#
tantek
the individual pages are event permalink pages - can't avoid that being different
#
aaronpk
good morning
#
Loqi
aaronpk: M-kegan left you a message 7 hours, 46 minutes ago: try "npm install matrix-appservice-micropub" or "npm link; npm link matrix-appservice-micropub" http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439793152469
#
Loqi
aaronpk: rhiaro left you a message 4 hours, 12 minutes ago: can I update the wiki side menu to add Edinburgh to HWC link? (how?) http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439805965694
#
Loqi
aaronpk: kegan left you a message 2 hours, 50 minutes ago: Added onNickConflict to the node-irc lib http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439810894366
#
tantek
the HWC bottom summary could be a summary filter *from* /events
#
tantek
and yes, /Sidebar and /next-hwc and /next-iwc could be automatically updated from /events
#
tantek
perhaps we need a "How To" on events
#
rhiaro
The 10 step process for listing your indieweb event
#
tantek
rhiaro: the minimum is to add it to /Events
#
tantek
other stuff is special case, e.g. not all events are HWC, or IWC
#
rhiaro
okie dokie
#
tantek
e.g. aaronpk's micropub session is *only* listed on /Events
#
tantek
took only one page change, since the event "permalink" is on another site
eschnou joined the channel
#
tantek
rhiaro: there's even more steps, documenting now
wolftune and snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek.com
edited /Events (+1169) "How To Add An Event, using HWC as an example"
(view diff)
#
tantek
what did I miss?
TinoKremer, j12t, chalettu, M-kegan and M-aaronpk joined the channel
snarfed and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
Loqi
KevinMarks_: tantek left you a message 12 hours, 38 minutes ago: the plumbing for a UI error is itself a deductive error :P http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439779551581
#
Loqi
KevinMarks_: tantek left you a message 12 hours, 36 minutes ago: (speaking of UI errors ;) uh, blaming the plumbing for a UI error is itself a deductive error :P http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-16/line/1439779622994
#
KevinMarks_
The question is still "is there a use case for white space preservation?"
#
tantek
KevinMarks: sadly a js;dr - is that what you meant?
#
tantek
and a sad old-style /#/ URL also
#
tantek
since the question is dead to history, perhaps it is ignorable
#
tantek
KevinMarks: on a more productive note, can you make unmung accept URLs without http?
#
KevinMarks_
I was trying out webmaker to see what kind of a web it is making. Maybe it's fixable.
#
KevinMarks_
Yes, I need to make unmung consistent about http handling and caching
eschnou joined the channel
#
tantek
KevinMarks I tried fixing it ages ago - adding microformats etc. and then they broke ALL the permalinks
#
tantek
and now it's js;dr - so I've given up on webmaker, since it has given up on the web
#
tantek
feel free to reach out to them on Twitter if you think it'll make a difference, and ask them to fix their site so it's not js;dr
#
tantek
KevinMarks: here's the example of a past event on Webmaker: http://indiewebcamp.com/2012/UK#Posts_About specifically: https://webmaker.org/en-US/events/4673de2a0/ which they broke first with a 404, then now a js;dr to a re-used event ID.
#
tantek
sad thing is that https://webmaker.org/en-US/events/4673de2a0/ didn't even get archived by archive.org in 2012 when I created it :/
#
KevinMarks
that is several kinds of broken
#
tantek
anyway - it's not really indieweb related so I'll take it off topic
eschnou, cleverdevil and tantek joined the channel
#
tantek
I wonder if the IWC wiki should send webmentions to all links in the contents of a page when its created or updated (except not to itself obv)
#
tantek
s/its/it's
#
Loqi
tantek meant to say: I wonder if the IWC wiki should send webmentions to all links in the contents of a page when it's created or updated (except not to it'self obv)
#
tantek
lol it'self
gRegorLove and stream7 joined the channel
#
kylewm
just don't frame it as a mediawiki plugin if you want to snipe aaronpk into doing it
snarfed joined the channel
wolftune, snarfed and glennjones_ joined the channel
#
tantek
every wiki page is kind of like its own post right? so it should send webmentions upon "posting" (creation) and "updating" (editing/saving) right?
#
aaronpk
seems reasonable
#
aaronpk
technically every IRC utterance is as well, but i think that would be too spammy
#
tantek
we don't link to things too often in IRC right?
#
tantek
the key there is not webmention things which are just notifications themselves, like when Loqi mentions webmentions in IRC that pages have received
#
aaronpk
it happens surprisingly often, like when people are talking about test URLs and stuff
#
tantek
although I suppose that would make for an odd confirmation feedback loop kind of thing
#
aaronpk
but wiki pages i think would be reasonable
M-aaronpk1, snarfed, edpw, frzn_, catsup, jciv, TinoKremer and cleverdevil joined the channel
#
@tinokremer
A nice summary about the #indieweb and why you want to be part of it. Longer NL post from me about it later. http://dangillmor.com/2014/04/25/indie-web-important/
(twitter.com/_/status/633338230847479808)
modem, cleverde_, catsup and cleverdevil joined the channel
#
GWG
is frustrated
#
tantek
sorry to hear that GWG
#
GWG
I have not been able to work on my site for over a week
#
aaronpk
tell me about it!
a_ joined the channel
#
GWG
aaronpk: Usually when I am injured or sick, I lie in bed with a laptop.
#
GWG
So I feel like I did something
#
tantek
checks last-modified date on falcon.php - 18 days ago.
#
tantek
I feel your frustration GWG :)
#
GWG
I have all these ideas I want to work on
#
cleverdevil
feels the pain as well...
#
tantek
checks last-modified date on cassis.js - 17 days ago - ah, right added .space support to auto_link for Lancey.
#
cleverdevil
lately, I've been traveling a lot, though.
#
cleverdevil
and airplanes are a great time to get things done :)
#
pokr
put up your wishlist, i'm unemployable and bored. just no PHP or Python
#
tantek
GWG, you know where to put all those ideas right? ;)
#
aaronpk
pokr: how's your Ruby? There's an outstanding bug in the Ruby mf2 parser that is up for grabs https://github.com/G5/microformats2/issues/31
catsup joined the channel
#
GWG
tantek: Audio recorder?
#
GWG
Feh
nedorito joined the channel
#
kylewm
had to double check the year on that article
#
snarfed
yeah fbnotes have
#
snarfed
er. fb notes have been around *forever*. evidently getting a facelift
#
tantek
I think in some past era I was PESOSING my tweets to FB notes. Maybe from a BlackBerry client? this is like last decade.
#
GWG
Apparently this is a style change
#
aaronpk
hm I need examples of how people display tags on their posts
#
GWG
Possibly to take on Medium and encourage more long form
#
snarfed
tantek: heh, maybe. not any more :( https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/429
#
tantek
aaronpk why?
#
tantek
I think modern UIs have mostly switched to in-place styling of tags (e.g. linking hashtags)
#
aaronpk
cause I need a new place to display them on my site since my new design doesn't have a sidebar
#
tantek
rather than separate lists of tags
#
tantek
huh, "on my site" is a different question than "on their posts"
#
aaronpk
I often have tags on posts that aren't in the post text tho, especially for long articles
#
tantek
homepage or permalinks?
#
aaronpk
permalinks as well as in list views
#
tantek
a-ha, narrowing the question - how to display /tags in /articles
#
tantek
permalinks vs list views are a very different design
#
aaronpk
notes too tho, cause the same thing is true for my notes, i often have tags on them that aren't in the note text
#
tantek
aaronpk, consider tags like other about-like info you might display (location, temperature, etc.)
#
kylewm.com
edited /tags (+391) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add me"
(view diff)
#
aaronpk
yeah that's what I was thinking. my little post footer is getting pretty big tho
#
tantek
unless you support receiving /u-tag-of /responses in which case they are kind of like halfway between /comments and /likes or /reposts
#
tantek
(other people tagging your posts)
#
aaronpk
oo kylewm I like the way you show syndications
#
kylewm
thanks!
#
aaronpk
if I do that too I can save a line
#
tantek
aaronpk - example permalink?
#
kylewm
ok I'm putting /tags into indiewebify.me's webmention sender as a test
#
tantek
maybe worth capturing on ...
#
tantek
goes down a wiki rabbithole
#
aaronpk
hehe sorry
#
aaronpk
#sorrynotsorry
#
tantek
#youwinthisround
#
tantek
finds an old wiki page that needs updating to recent content stylistic patterns
#
KevinMarks
hm, I checked the 'share to facebook' thingy on that Known post, but it didn't go over.
eschnou and shiflett joined the channel
#
tantek.com
edited /posts-elsewhere (+664) "update to IndieWeb Examples, subsections per person, add Kylewm"
(view diff)
ttepasse joined the channel
#
tantek
kylewm: do you remember when you started showing your syndications on posts? could you add an earlier date and reference to: https://indiewebcamp.com/posts-elsewhere#Kyle_Mahan
#
tantek
what is also on?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "also on" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/101a
#
loqi.me
created /also_on (+29) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439841296517 and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
#
tantek
what is syndicated to
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "syndicated to" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/101b
#
tantek
syndicated to is /posts-elsewhere
#
loqi.me
created /syndicated_to (+29) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439841329002 and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
#
tantek
what is also posted on
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "also posted on" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/101c
#
tantek
also posted on is /posts-elsewhere
#
loqi.me
created /also_posted_on (+29) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-17/line/1439841347829 and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
#
tantek
hopefully that makes https://indiewebcamp.com/posts-elsewhere more discoverable
mdik_ and JasonO joined the channel
#
@ttepasse
@cjk101010 It means he’s using the @ttsdevdiary-Account for the POSSE*-Feature for his website, one presumes: *http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE
(twitter.com/_/status/633372413162557440)
modem, mdik, scoates, JasonO and cleverde_ joined the channel
#
tantek.com
edited /POSSE (+373) "expand dfn, re-organize along Why, How-to, Examples sections like other pages, update mine"
(view diff)
JasonO and mdik joined the channel
#
aaronpk
kylewm: do you ever syndicate to sites where you may not have an icon for them?
JasonO joined the channel
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /also_posted_on (-1) "Redirected page to [[posts-elsewhere]]"
(view diff)
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /syndicated_to (-1) "Redirected page to [[posts-elsewhere]]"
(view diff)
#
tantek
GWG, I love that you have so many ideas for what you want to do.
#
tantek
I think that's a wonderful thing.
#
tantek
Please share them on your Itches list!
mdik_ joined the channel
#
@offrayLC
@momentumim Do you have also #indieweb presence in #Known or other descentralized microblogging platform?
(twitter.com/_/status/633383009756954624)
shiflett, mdik and snarfed joined the channel
#
snarfed
aaronpk: as a data point, i use icons for synd links, but fall back to text when there's no icon
#
tantek
aaronpk: looks like IndieNews needs an icon ;)
#
aaronpk
thanks!
glennjones joined the channel
#
aaronpk
just made calendar views for my year and month permalinks on my new site :)
#
tantek
what is archive?
#
aaronpk
i've had a monthly view for a while, but i'm adding year now too http://aaronparecki.com/2015/08
#
Loqi
archive in the context of the indieweb refers to date-grouped (often monthly) sets of posts (AKA personal historical archives, a common form of navigation), but can sometimes mean archival copy, a copy of a web page made (often by someone other than the author) at a particular point in time https://indiewebcamp.com/archive
#
tantek
aaronpk, perhaps expand your entry here? https://indiewebcamp.com/archive#Aaron_Parecki
#
aaronpk
this is part of the hackable URL bit of my site
#
tantek
that's pretty darn cool
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /archive (+208) "/* Aaron Parecki */"
(view diff)
#
gregorlove.com
edited /posts-elsewhere (+329) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ +me"
(view diff)
snarfed, cmhobbs, mdik_, cleverde_, lukebrooker, tantek and mlncn joined the channel
#
aaronpk
the good news is so far it's way faster for me to add things in my new framework
scoates and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
mdik joined the channel
barrucadu and wolftune joined the channel