#indiewebcamp 2015-08-02

2015-08-02 UTC
modem, wolftune, KartikPrabhu, KevinMarks__, cmhobbs, snarfed, shiflett, KevinMarks, benwerd and mdik_ joined the channel
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snarfed aaronpk++ sounds like great progress on clustered mentions!
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Loqi aaronpk has 921 karma
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snarfed and it does many to many too? so the design is a bit different?
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snarfed regardless, excited!
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aaronpk it does many-to-many right now but I think by the time I clean up the actual display text it won't
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aaronpk i think our initial design also would do many-many but the example I wrote up is many-one
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aaronpk also this is definitely hard enough that I'm going to remove all notification text processing from my own site and let this handle it
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aaronpk by sending a "shadow copy" of the webmentions my own endpoint gets to webmention.io, letting it generate the notification text for me
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snarfed oh wow
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snarfed interesting complexity trade there
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snarfed so, rpc to wmio to generate the notification *text*
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snarfed ?
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snarfed or generate the *notification*?
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snarfed regardless, cool
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aaronpk I'm still going to handle the webmention itself on my site, the part where it parses the comment text and such
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aaronpk but for generating the *notification* text, i'm going to let webmention.io handle it
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aaronpk for actually sending me the notification, i'll probably end up doing something like http://indiewebcamp.com/mention-app even if I fake it by using Prowl
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aaronpk i think it's time for a little text-first design
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aaronpk what is text-first design?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "text-first design" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100r
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aaronparecki.com created /text-first_design (+431) "prompted by aaronpk https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-08-01/line/1438494165027" (view diff)
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aaronpk !tell tantek I hope you can fill this out a little! https://indiewebcamp.com/text-first_design
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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Loqi [mention] http://siteferreira.wpengine.com/projects-indiewebcamp/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/projects (pingback)
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wagle how do i delete user obloid.org from indiewebcamp?
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wagle the app.net button attempts to clickjack me.. 8/
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wagle i try to login, but nothing happens
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KartikPrabhu wagle: guessing app.net's fault. if you have other silo logins you should try that. Github seems to work all the time for me
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wagle oki.. poking around
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wagle how do i point google+ back to my personal site? I thought I did
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KartikPrabhu wagle: checking my own G+
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wagle mine is the second from the right button on https://plus.google.com/+PerryWagle/about
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KartikPrabhu wagle: I think in other profiles you add you homepage
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KartikPrabhu see mine: https://plus.google.com/u/0/+KartikPrabhu/about
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wagle mines tehe ame as far as I can tell, except no https
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wagle mines the same as far as I can tell, except no https
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KartikPrabhu I don't see a "other profile" may be it is private>
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KartikPrabhu ?
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wagle OOOOoo
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KartikPrabhu your "other profiles" only has a Picasa link
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KartikPrabhu wagle: use the "view profile as" Public on top of your page
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wagle works for me, see picassa, buzz, and personal website
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KartikPrabhu wagle: yes that's what I mean, if you view you profile as "you" it will show all info, but you might have hidden it from everyone else. Try the "Edit" link on the profiles thing and make sure you homepage can be viewed by everyone
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wagle i mean, i say View Profile as: Public, it works for me
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KartikPrabhu weird.
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KartikPrabhu because I only see "Picasa Web Album" in "other Profiles"
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wagle bleagh
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wagle it all public
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wagle https://plus.google.com/+PerryWagle/about/p/pub
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wagle moo.. if i sign out, it first displays the page, then immediiately replaces it with a black page insisting you login
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KartikPrabhu yup same for me
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wagle you are looking at https://plus.google.com/+PerryWagle/about ?
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KartikPrabhu no that one shows me the "Picasa" link only. The /p/pub shows me blank page
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wagle wierd
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KartikPrabhu yeah pretty much
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wagle i signed in as wagle@metabiology.com, and he sees it
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wagle oh i bet it thinks we are the same
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KartikPrabhu hmmm alright
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wagle how did you link back to your web site from google+
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wagle ?
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wagle ll i see is a vanilla url
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KartikPrabhu i just added my homepage in "other profiles" as a link
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wagle what url?
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KartikPrabhu my homepage url https://kartikprabhu.com/
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KartikPrabhu the same one I use for Indieauth
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wagle oic, i dont have other profiles
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KartikPrabhu it seems to know you Picasa album
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wagle ok, i got it
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wagle bah.. now flickr doesnt link back.. 8)
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KartikPrabhu haha
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wagle but i finally read carfully enough to login
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KartikPrabhu cool!
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wagle thanks for the help!
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wagle woot! aaronpk's fickr link seems to be broken.. 8)
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Loqi giggles
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KevinMarks https://docs.convox.com/docs/getting-started-with-convox
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KevinMarks A Heroku like open source project
elf-pavlik, lewisnyman, mdik, eschnou, catsup, KartikPrabhu, loic_m, frzn, j12t, interactivist, lewisnyman_, minsky, ehlovader, wolftune and shiflett joined the channel
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@LukasRosenstock "The Failed Promise of Deep Links": https://medium.com/backchannel/the-failed-promise-of-deep-links-aa307b3abaa5?utm_content=buffer85f72&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer Good #longread about the history and potential of the hyperlink. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/627845078204157952)
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aaronpk just noticed a new field in the gmail meta dropdown, along with From, To, Date, Subject, it also says "signed by"
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aaronpk myfreeweb: good morning! it looks like your "author" property of your likes is being set to the person whose post you're liking
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aaronpk it should actually be you as the author of the like!
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ShaneHudson I need to fix my site to accept in-reply-to at some point!
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@kevinmarks Homebrew Website Club with @Suw and @t at Mozilla this week reminded us of tag Tuesday 10 years ago: https://www.flickr.com/short_urls.gne?photoset=3mgn #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/627884508197445632)
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GWG Good afternoon, all.
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GWG I'm once again struggling with storing microformats as properties of a post.
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GWG Does anyone, on a reply, like, etc, store the h-card of the thing being replied/liked/etc?
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aaronpk of the thing being liked? or of the person who liked it?
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GWG The person being liked.
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GWG So, I like something you wrote, I want to store your h-card attached to my like post
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aaronpk oh gotcha, i was thinking you were handling webmentions. my mind is very much in that mindset now
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GWG I could store the h-card, but then the data I stored could be either no longer available, or it could be updated.
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GWG Right now I have no functionality in this area, but am trying to set things up if I ever had update functionality in future.
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Jeena yeah I was thinking about that too, a list of h-cards can also help later on for easier tagging people in posts
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GWG That would suggest the 'nickname cache' idea in the wiki
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Jeena yeah, I was thinking just to have some cron job and update the list once a month or something
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GWG Right now, I store that data attached to the post.
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Jeena yeah me too
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GWG The question is: 1. What structure does it make sense to store it in attached to the post?
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GWG 2. As I've considered before, should it be stored independently.
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Jeena it depends on your backend, do you use a database or flat files or what?
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GWG Jeena: WordPress, which uses a database.
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Jeena Hm can you add new tables to the database for a plugin?
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@kevinmarks “Google didn’t mean to ruin links for the rest of us, but that’s what happened.” #indieweb https://t.co/4wiN7gOF0a. (twitter.com/_/status/627892529157943296)
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GWG Jeena: I could use the users table.
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GWG I've considered that before.
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Jeena na I wouldn't, it is for wordpress users not for data like that
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GWG Basically, it makes someone I have an h-card on an unprivileged user.
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GWG WordPress has a role for 'subscriber'.
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Jeena yeah which is kind of weird
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Jeena the h-card as unprivileged user
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Jeena I would have a address_book table or something
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GWG Subscriber is basically a read only role.
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Jeena and put there name, domain, avatar, email
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Jeena if you're not able to add new tables then this would be a solution, sure
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Jeena even though more a hack but still a solution
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GWG Jeena: Would you want to 'log into' my site and update my copy of your h-card?
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Jeena no, I would want to change my h-card on my website and it should be changed on your site accordingly
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Jeena (even a lag of a couple of weeks doesn't matter)
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Jeena because I don't want to log in into hundreds of websites I never visited to change my data manually
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GWG Jeena: You can create custom tables in WordPress. But I'd rather integrate into what is there already.
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Jeena and the person you have a h-card is semantically not a subsriber
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GWG Jeena: That is what custom-roles are for.
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Jeena does it have anough fields for what you want to save?
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GWG Jeena: User metadata is infinitely extensible.
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Jeena ok, it will work but it's still wrong ;)
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GWG But right now, I'm storing attached to the post, but in a strange place.
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GWG I'm trying to store using microformat names and structure, but cards of people I'm liking or replying to are stored under cite->card
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GWG So, a subproperty, which I'm not sure I like, even though I picked it.
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aaronpk I'm designing notification text for webmention.io, would love feedback on this: https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/39#issuecomment-125020178
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GWG aaronpk: That stuff would go great in the wiki as well.
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aaronpk i was thinking about adding it to the notifications page
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GWG aaronpk: I approve
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GWG I worked last month on trying to make my notifications more useful.
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GWG I haven't gotten to clustering yet.
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GWG The question comes for me that if you send your notification when an event happens, how do you decide to combine events?
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aaronpk what i'm doing here is adding a delay, so when a webmention comes in I wait for some time for others to arrive, and after N seconds, I send a notification for everything that is pending
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aaronpk the tradeoff is the notifications are no longer immediate
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Jeena how do you people do notifications, via email or how?
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aaronpk I use the iOS Prowl app, it provides an HTTP API that sends push notifications to my phone
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aaronpk what is Prowl?
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Loqi Prowl is an app and a service that allows you to send push notifications to your iOS devices https://indiewebcamp.com/Prowl
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GWG What is Pushover?
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Loqi Pushover makes it easy to get real-time notifications on Android, iOS, and desktop systems https://indiewebcamp.com/Pushover
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Jeena I see that would be build into a reader app later on I guess
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk I still want to make this actually http://indiewebcamp.com/mention-app
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GWG aaronpk: Clustering comments makes less sense than clustering likes though, for example. You'd want immediate notification of a comment, I'd think
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aaronpk true
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@LloydDavis RT @t: Seeing tweets re #foocamp “alphas”. Alpha enough to #ownyourdata? Or just Betas to Silos? Makers, make thy #indieweb. (ttk.me t4cU3) (twitter.com/_/status/627896930627133440)
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GWG Does any Micropub client support multi-reply?
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wagle is there some sort of checklist of things to do to mf2_s before its "ready to go"? I want to play with microformats and sempress squanders whitespace
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GWG wagle: Checklist in what sense? It is designed to be a barely styled theme you use to make other themes.
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GWG I have made a few themes based on various iterations of it
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GWG So has acegiak1, for example.
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GWG http://acegiak.net/ - Is a fork of mf2_s
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wagle i'm new to all this, but I'm a decent programmer for other things.. kinda intimidated by the size of a theme.. if I knew what mf2_s was missing, then I could go scrub through and figure each thing out
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wagle for example, the 2010 theme is nearly perfect for me
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wagle hmm.. maybe that means i should unify 2010 with mf2_s..
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GWG wagle: You can try wordpress-uf2. It tries to add mf2 to any theme to the extent filters can
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wagle ah, interesting
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wagle i will try that
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GWG pfefferle had asked for me to look over the wordpress-uf2 plugin. I think he just made a bunch of updates to it after a long break.
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GWG https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-uf2
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GWG pfefferle is the same person who wrote SemPress
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wagle ah ok..
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wagle i just like my pages to not require scrolling if they are small
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GWG I remember on the 2014 theme, when installing wordpress-uf2, it messed up the display.
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GWG I think I know why.
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wagle hmm.. will get into it once i run some errands before it gets hot
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aaronpk hold on to your hats. i might break the wiki.
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wagle listens for a distant boom
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aaronpk omg it worked
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wagle gz
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KevinMarks_ reads scrollback
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KevinMarks_ GWG - someone who likes your posts is a reader, if nto a subscriber, so storing them in the users tabel deos make sense
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GWG KevinMarks_: Finally got around to watching your appearance on TWiG
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KevinMarks_ is 'subscriber' populated from wp.com's built in reader?
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GWG KevinMarks_: Subscriber is a user role that only allows reading of their own profile. It has no privileges, basically.
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GWG https://codex.wordpress.org/Roles_and_Capabilities
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KevinMarks_ but how is it curently created?
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GWG I assumed wordpress.com uses it for that.
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GWG But I am wordpress.org
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GWG Self Hosted
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KevinMarks_ right, so that seems to fit
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KevinMarks_ as they can edit their own profile by updatding their hcard on their site
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GWG Yes.
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GWG Sounds like a separate plugin.
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KevinMarks_ you updating it when you receive a webmenton form them seems OK
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KevinMarks_ do you copy their profile pic?
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KevinMarks_ there is the 'dead link profile image' problem
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GWG KevinMarks_: Right now I optionally do.
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GWG But I want to hand that off to something that can also be used by the other plugins that need it.
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KevinMarks_ whch plays into the 'should you use their profile image at the time of posting,or current?' issue
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GWG KevinMarks_: WordPress defaults to gravatar, which makes that the choice of the person whose picture it is, as opposed to the site host
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KevinMarks_ but requires an email?
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KevinMarks_ has no idea how to update his gravatar
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[aaronpk] Updating your gravatar is hard now cause it requires having a wordpress account even if you don't use Wordpress :-(
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KevinMarks_ storeing webmention hCrads in User tabel as subscribers (if they don't already have a fuller role) make sense to me
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KevinMarks_ aaronpk: re your mentions thing - Android allows you to update notifications in the queue; does iOS?
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[aaronpk] In what queue?
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KevinMarks_ so you can post a 'Aaarpk liked this post' notification, get a ref to it, and later change it to 'aaropk and tantek liekd this post'
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KevinMarks_ the one on the phone
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aaronpk whoa
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aaronpk no I don't think iOS has that
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KevinMarks_ http://developer.android.com/intl/zh-CN/guide/topics/ui/notifiers/notifications.html#Updating
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KevinMarks_ not sure if that appleis to GCM too
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aaronpk GCM doesn't provide a UI at all, you have to make the notification yourself, so you could probably do it
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KevinMarks_ ah, right, the app gets to do it
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KevinMarks_ so you have that API
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aaronpk I had to fix the wiki microformats in order to continue working on this webmention.io thing lol
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GWG KevinMarks_: I can make the avatar system in WordPress use a URL instead of/in addition to an email
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KevinMarks_ on iOs you can cancel notifications; not clear if you can update them
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aaronpk I don't think you can, but it's been a while since I've read the docs
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aaronpk It certainly was not possible last time I read the docs
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KevinMarks_ it's not as clean as the Android version; you might be able to change its alertBody if you keep a ref?
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aaronpk there's no ID for push notifications sent via APNS
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aaronpk you don't even get an acknowledgement that it was successfully sent. you only get a response if there's an error
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KevinMarks_ ah, I was looking at the app api
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aaronpk APNS is the weirdest API. Luckily it's getting replaced with an HTTP2 API soon
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KevinMarks_ I have https://github.com/kevinmarks/nanotweeter on android, which I could update to check fro webmentions as wella s tweets
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KevinMarks_ I need to fix notification expansion on lollipop too
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KevinMarks_ interesting: https://code.facebook.com/posts/872547912839369/improving-facebook-s-performance-on-android-with-flatbuffers/
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KartikPrabhu wow! on android clicking a link in the Gmail app automatically opens it in Chrome even though my default browser is FF!
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: same on ios!
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KartikPrabhu that's stupid!
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KartikPrabhu Google does not even respect user-settings on a phone
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aaronpk huh. I think I might have enough to launch the clustered mentions
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aaronpk it's kind of rudimentary right now, but it is working at least in my testing
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KartikPrabhu nice!
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aaronpk i think i want to do one more thing before I turn it on
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@kevinmarks “…lowest-common-denominator content, catered to the formal weirdness of each individual platform…” or #indieweb? http://www.theawl.com/2015/07/in-no-charts (twitter.com/_/status/627955544817405952)
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@alenevince “…lowest-common-denominator content, catered to the formal weirdness of each individual platform…” or #indieweb? http://www.theawl.com/2015/07/in-no-charts (twitter.com/_/status/627958714289520640)
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snarfed hey aaronpk!
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snarfed re notif links…i actually meant linking to the target too, at least in the multi-source case, not just to the source
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GWG snarfed: I've gotten Micropub working with Post Kinds.
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GWG After a lot of bug fixing that unit testing would have helped.
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snarfed GWG: cool!
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snarfed lol
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GWG snarfed: I'll be writing some for Post Kinds too, I guess.
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aaronpk oops i meant target url in my comment :P
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aaronpk oh wait i think i understood what you meant and then answered something different
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snarfed ah good ok
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snarfed so that's all targets in the many-one case, and some sources in the one-many case, right?
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snarfed lol yes maybe
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snarfed i *love& that wmio has/will have per-mention or per-cluster landing pages
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snarfed i'm not sure if it adds that much incremental value to put in the notif text in most cases…but i don't feel strongly
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aaronpk I mostly want the permalinks for debugging purposes
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aaronpk so when a notification lands here, you can click through to see all of the individual permalinks involved in the cluster
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@fakebaldur RT @kevinmarks: “…lowest-common-denominator content, catered to the formal weirdness of each individual platform…” or #indieweb? http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/627960772610662401)
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snarfed got it
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snarfed in most cases you can get them from the source or target anyway, with some extra conversion work for silos…but i get that this is more convenient
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snarfed eh let's ship and iterate. already this v1 will be a huge win
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snarfed gotta go. gl!
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GWG !tell acegiak1, acegiak I'm having thoughts again. I need to be stopped.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk notification text is *hard*
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aaronpk so many cases to handle
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snarfed aaronpk: maybe the silver lining is it's
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snarfed er…that it's "just" complicated, and not truly complex...?
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snarfed still damn complicated though
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk I thought I was almost done, but then I realized I still haven't done anything for the one->many case
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aaronpk I think that one is going to be easier though
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snarfed ? i thought your issue comment had lots of that
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aaronpk yeah, but not the code :P
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snarfed ah he
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snarfed details
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aaronpk this is the kind of stuff that drives me crazy lol "Matrix liked a post that linked to an event: "IndieWebCamp Day 1: Sessions""
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snarfed yup
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aaronpk and exactly why i only want to write this once :P
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