#indiewebcamp 2015-07-06

2015-07-06 UTC
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david.shanske.com edited /location (+757) (view diff)
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GWG Good morning.
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petermolnar morning
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GWG petermolnar: Have you had a look at the changes to Simple Location? I know you tried it out.
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petermolnar not yet, I will
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petermolnar I have to concentrate on my day to today :)
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petermolnar s/day to/day job/
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Loqi petermolnar meant to say: I have to concentrate on my day job today :)
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GWG My next focus on it is improving textual display. Looking for ideas.
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@tristanbailey Brighton - IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Brighton?utm_content=buffer29012&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer at @68MiddleSt 11-12 july with hosts @adactio and charlotte (twitter.com/_/status/618014079819628544)
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Phyks kylewm: yep, but I was thinking about something more general. Embedding vcard in the message when talking about someone to ease reply / adding to contacts, embedding calendars events automatically when talking about an event, this kind of stuff
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Phyks (sorry for the delay, not having a stable internet connection at the moment =()
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acegiak morning, all
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acegiak here's a weird question: do any other silos have equivalent behaviours to tumblrs "I reblog this post every time it shows up on my dash"
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acegiak cause I just reblogged something on my site and I couldn't remember if I'd reblogged it previously
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acegiak and thought how weird it was to have two copies of the same post in my blog but the important difference being the timestamp
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acegiak like, for some reason that makes sense for things like scrobbles cause they're more... data-y?
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acegiak and it's always felt natural ON TUMBLR
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acegiak but I found myself questioning it outside that system
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voxpelli_ acegiak: it's an interesting observation
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Loqi voxpelli_: tantek left you a message on 9/15 at 12:30pm: could you write a stub for http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=registerProtocolHandler ?
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LanceyWork i think that's pretty unique to tumblr
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Loqi voxpelli_: tantek left you a message on 9/15 at 12:31pm: could you write a stub for http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=registerProtocolHandler ?
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LanceyWork i don't think twitter will let you retweet something more than once
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LanceyWork maybe facebook?
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petermolnar it used to; I mean twitter, when it was RT time and not the current retweet
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voxpelli_ an annoying thing on Instapaper is that if you have already svaed a post there then it will just ignore your new save, rather than update the timestamp – so if it's way way down in your list, you will still not have an easy time finding it
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petermolnar facebook I think you can share it more than once but it might aggregate it if you look at the way it shows a share from more than one person
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voxpelli_ on Pinterest it notifies you prior to pinning that you have already pinned it – not sure if one can actually pin it twice because I have never wanted to do that
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acegiak tumblr does an interesting thing where you can reblog many times but like only once?
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voxpelli_ like is probably considered a property/relation to the post you like, while reposts are considered new posts that just links to the old one?
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acegiak yeah pretty much
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acegiak but, the next time it comes around on my dash it's a new reblog by another person
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acegiak so the like is stored at some weird nebulous point further up the chain that isn't necessarily the original post
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petermolnar I wonder if those links to the original post are hardlink or symlink style links
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LanceyWork likes are associated with the original post but reblogs are considered a new post entirely
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acegiak ah ok
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LanceyWork that's why you can append a caption to a reblog
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acegiak but it's making me think about what a reblog/repost/share IS
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acegiak semantically
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voxpelli_ wonder if that aspect would be interesting to document on wiki – eg. at http://indiewebcamp.com/repost or at a "duplicate post" page or something?
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acegiak to me on my blog
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acegiak voxpelli_:
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acegiak yeah
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LanceyWork imo, i like how tumblr treats it
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acegiak LanceyWork: same, I tend to emulate tumblr's structure for my own UX
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LanceyWork tumblr is good at being a blog
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acegiak but hopefully with less crazy awful bugs
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acegiak I feel like a reblog, to me, is like a synapse in a weird globale neural network
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LanceyWork the way i see it, a like is an action you make on someone else's blog, but a repost/share/etc is an action you make on your own
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@dagoneye Ha ancora senso avere un blog? Forse sì: Pingback, Webmentions e VRM http://www.dagoneye.it/blog/2015/07/06/ha-ancora-senso-avere-un-blog-forse-si-pingback-webmentions-e-vrm/ cc @lucadebiase @gg #VRM #intentioneconomy (twitter.com/_/status/618030343292080128)
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Loqi [mention] http://www.accessfm.org/rebooting-feeds/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention (pingback)
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@ericavagl http://www.dagoneye.it/blog/2015/07/06/ha-ancora-senso-avere-un-blog-forse-si-pingback-webmentions-e-vrm/ (twitter.com/_/status/618037753205391360)
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giugee.com edited /2015/Brighton (+250) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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petermolnar 50 people for Brighton? wow.
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aaronpk I should update the portland guest list from all the ti.to registrations that have come in
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Loqi yea
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Loqi [mention] https://kylewm.com/2015/07/benwerd-one-datapoint-quoting-pwcc-within-half-an linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-23/line/1424752082752 (webmention)
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adaburrows.com edited /2015/Guest_List (+258) "/* Official Guest List */ Adding Jill Burrows" (view diff)
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@LukasRosenstock Get an #IndieWeb-compatible personal website running in seconds with @Docker, @AppDotNet and #phpADNSite: https://registry.hub.docker.com/u/lukasros/phpadnsite/?utm_content=buffer48eec&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/618098403440988160)
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aaronpk aaaaaaaaa indiewebcamp is this weekend
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bret whats up!
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@schnarfed @mapkyca @benwerd @kylewmahan fwiw, i like how @indiewebcamp has bridged IRC and Slack. adds accessibility but keeps archives, openness, etc (twitter.com/_/status/618109548268687360)
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp! Can't wait for the weekend!
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voxpelli too bad I want be able to join in person this weekend :( but I'm preparing some nice stuff anyways
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tantek voxpelli: can you remote participate with Brighton perhaps? similar timezone right?
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voxpelli s/want/wont/
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Loqi voxpelli meant to say: too bad I wont be able to join in person this weekend :( but I'm preparing some nice stuff anyways
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tantek ping adactio about it - he has an HD camera + stereo mics that he can use for a nice talky broadcast
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voxpelli tantek: yeah, thinking of trying to do that
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tantek I know because I donated it to him for IWC Brighton specifically :)
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tantek so now he's obligated to use it to setup remote participation ;)
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voxpelli :)
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voxpelli will think about it
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bret ill bring a camera
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bret too
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tantek bret awesome!
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bret and a work laptop
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aaronpk i'll have the camera and extra laptop too
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tantek aaronpk - great!
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aaronpk i have a table mic that will help as well
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tantek how many are we up to including silent tito regs?
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bret ill bring a airport express too
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bret works as a backup ethernet jack for people having wifi troubles
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aaronpk there are 35 registered!
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bret \o/
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tantek !!!
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GWG Panic time for aaronpk?
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aaronpk indeed
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fkooman aaronpk, how do you deal with authorization_code replay in the "the network is the database" scenario?
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Loqi fkooman: aaronpk left you a message 3 days, 2 hours ago: good catch! I thought I remembered it saying only that the authorization code must be short-lived. I will have to think about how to do that http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-03/line/1435939521492
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Loqi fkooman: aaronpk left you a message on 7/4 at 12:21pm: I think it's actually the job of the token endpoint to prevent authorization codes from being used more than once. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-04/line/1436037668457
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GWG aaronpk, I could recount some famous movie inspirational speeches if it would help
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aaronpk fkooman: ironically I was just writing this part of my OAuth book yesterday ...
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aaronpk fkooman: in general (not specifically for indieauth.com which is running on 3 disparate servers) I would cache a nonce for the auth code and first check the cache, and if the nonce is in the cache, the code has already been used
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fkooman aaronpk, but how do you distribute this among the servers?
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aaronpk that part I haven't figured out yet :)
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fkooman yeah, that is the interestign part :-)
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aaronpk it might require a shared cache but I really would like to avoid that if possible
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fkooman yeah I understand that :) i was also looking into using jwt for authorizatoin code and access tokens
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@mapkyca @schnarfed @benwerd @kylewmahan @indiewebcamp Yeah, that's a nice approach... (twitter.com/_/status/618127320017170433)
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aaronpk yeah, there are some other considerations when using self-encoded access tokens though
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aaronpk also with JWT specifically, someone can inspect the token to get info out of it, so you might want to use JWE which actually encrypts it
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aaronpk otherwise you might leak user IDs or other internal info you've encoded into the token
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aaronparecki.com edited /Vouch (+636) "added 3 questions asked by someone reading this page for the first time" (view diff)
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fkooman aaronpk, where is your book? somewhere online?
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aaronpk not yet
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@dougmckown Any #indieweb folks using this? https://twitter.com/LukasRosenstock/status/618098403440988160 (twitter.com/_/status/618149424850673664)
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kylewm odd question
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@ReginaHolliday RT @LifeHealthDiary: We fully back you @LifeHealthDiary to finally obtain, manage and #ownyourdata Let's keep speaking up! https://t.co/sfd… (twitter.com/_/status/618150947219480577)
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@dougmckown @LukasRosenstock This app combo creates an indieweb-compatible static site, not blog, correct? (twitter.com/_/status/618152051458093057)
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LukasRos kylewm: Was your comment about that tweet?
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kylewm LukasRos: yep :) bc definitionally someone in indieweb is using it!
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LukasRos Yeah, that’s the beauty of selfdogfooding.
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kylewm interesting salmentions+deduplication fail! https://kylewm.com/2015/07/peas-in-guacamole-what-are-they-thinking
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kylewm (also fwiw, I was intentionally referencing a meme from a week ago ;)
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snarfed1 LukasRos: kylewm: i don't think we really draw too much of a distinction btw "static site" and "blog," right?
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snarfed1 arguably just plumbing. which can still be interesting, just not necessarily for interop
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kylewm yeah, blog and static site are orthogonal
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LukasRos Depends on how you define static site. You can look at technology stack and say static site (e.g. static HTML, Jekyll) vs dynamic site (e.g. PHP).
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LukasRos You can also look at the content, in that case a blog would be anything with chronologically ordered content whereas a static site is everything else.
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KevinMarks previously http://epeus.blogspot.com/2007/10/all-bloggers-are-above-average.html
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snarfed LukasRos: KevinMarks: definitely! all that makes sense. semantics is always fun. :P
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snarfed i think we're just saying, from an *indieweb* point of view, we mostly pay attention to mf2 markup and interop (webmention etc), which don't care whether your underlying plumbing is static or dynamic *or* how your content is ordered
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@dougmckown Testing #indieweb syndication to my site. (twitter.com/_/status/618156973075394561)
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snarfed (UX debates about arrows and time notwithstanding :P)
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tantek snarfed we <3 UX debates! :)
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snarfed backs away slowly
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KevinMarks hm, willt his affect webmentions? https://make.wordpress.org/core/2015/07/06/comments-are-now-turned-off-on-pages-by-default/
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tantek as in help their popularity?
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LukasRos I feel it’s often difficult to argue on terminology because there are many things that cannot easily be categorized and would easier be described as is.
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tantek is that a variant of Sapir-Whorf?
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tantek what is a birthday?
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Loqi A birthday is the date when someone is born, however in the context of the indieweb, it is a feature displayed on some silos' user profiles that you can (or must) enter, and some prominently present to your friends on the month and day of your birthday, like Facebook's "BIRTHDAYS THIS WEEK" feature at the top of their events page https://indiewebcamp.com/birthday
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LukasRos tantek: Haven’t thought of it like that.
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tantek does anyone display their birthday on their homepage, even if only to certain (IndieAuth signed in?) users?
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kylewm snarfed: i have an interesting bridgy/salmentions interaction that i hadn't anticipated... bridgy backfeeds one tweet from two different urls
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kylewm https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kylewmahan/618103604902100994/618106566378659840 and https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kylewmahan/618103813099008000/618106566378659840
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tantek kylewm: sounds like a Hydra feature :P
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snarfed kylewm: aha yes, sounds like https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/217 ?
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kylewm tantek: acegiak has her birthday on acegiak.net (I noticed because it's 6 years and 1 day before mine)
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kylewm meant to say 5 years and 364 days after mine :)
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snarfed kylewm: do you have a fever and the only cure is more de-duping?
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snarfed ducks
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KevinMarks twitter adding birthdays reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JAYEvvjXqU
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tantek.com edited /birthday (+185) "indieweb examples, silo examples, see also home page" (view diff)
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Zegnat I used to have my birthday on vanderven.se/martijn/, prefixed with “Est.”, but it got lost in the most recent redesign
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tantek.com edited /Twitter (+229) "/* Features */ +birthday as of today" (view diff)
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aaronpk wow with privacy settings for day/month separately from year!
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aaronpk interesting privacy settings too: Public, My Followers, People I Follow, We follow each other, Only me
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tantek.com edited /birthday (+483) "silo subheads, hotlink Twitter bday UI images" (view diff)
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Zegnat aaronpk, Facebook has always had separate privacy settings for “Date of Birth” (day + month) and “Year of Birth”
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aaronpk doesn't go on facebook very often
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tantek.com edited /birthday (+112) "/* Twitter */ Year dropdown privacy menu options" (view diff)
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Zegnat It must be great not to have to use Facebook, haha. Just thought I would point out Twitter wasn’t the first on that :)
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Loqi rofl
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tantek.com edited /birthday (+28) "float tweaks" (view diff)
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tantek thanks for the heads-up kevinmarks, now captured: https://indiewebcamp.com/birthday#Twitter
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KevinMarks__ hearts versus stars in Apple Music http://www.loopinsight.com/2015/07/02/how-to-properly-use-likes-in-apple-music/
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kevinmarks.com edited /birthday (+177) "/* Criticism */" (view diff)
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kylewm aaronpk: did you see Micropub was deleted from WP? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/delete&page=Micropub_%28IndieWeb%29
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aaronpk didn't even know it was added!
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kylewm super frustrating to not be able to see what was there...
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tantek kylewm: you might want to ask tommorris what was there and if he could recover it for you into your User: space
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tommorris Yep, refund desk will be open when I get back to a desktop-class co
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tantek what's actually super frustrating (and quite suspicious) was the "nomination and rapid deletion" over the July 4th holiday when fewer people are paying attention. That's super sketchy behavior.
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tantek tommorris: is there a term for deletionists that attempt to sneak through rapid deletions during holidays when they expect fewer people are paying attention?
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tommorris abides by AGF and holds his tongue, especially as he has been unfairly characterised as a 'deletionist' before.
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tommorris Also, 4th of July is only a holiday for those in .us ;-)
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tommorris was tagged for deletion 2 minutes after creation...
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tantek well there you go - who created it?
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tommorris was created by a user called Mm0hai
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tommorris the deletion is kind of a mess though. A7/db-web wasn't intended for technical specifications, db-web was intended for web content (websites, YouTube channels, social media channels, etc.)
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tommorris and G11 (spam) is inapplicable
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tantek yeah I suppose we need a newspaper article about Micropub then right?
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tantek perhaps we can get WIRED to write it up after showing up to IndieWebCamp 2015
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tantek aaronpk should we be explicitly inviting members of local tech press to cover IWC 2015?
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tantek tommorris: yes the A7 & G11 citations made no sense to me so I assumed I was missing something
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tommorris I kind of take a broad view: I could very easily go and cause a stink about borderline out-of-process deletion, but that's a waste of time. It wouldn't survive a vote at Articles for Deletion.
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tommorris it probably shouldn't have been speedy deleted, but I'm not one to insist on process for the sake of process.
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tommorris tantek: A7 and G11 refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion#List_of_criteria
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tommorris it's an overly broad reading of A7. like, technically anything published on the web counts as web content. it's within the letter of A7 but not quite the spirit. ah well.
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tommorris if anyone wants it refunded, do shout and I'd be happy to userfy it for them.
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tantek kylewm: ^^^ that's how you can see what was there - ask tommorris to do that
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tantek.com edited /2012/UK/Indie_Anywhere (+28) "no need for pattern/ , add dfn, see also /hovercard" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /hovercard (+77) "-patterns, just pages, add Brainstorming with explicit link to IWC UK 2012 session, see also /indiecard" (view diff)
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tantek.com moved /What_works to /2012/UK/What_works "move to IWCUK 2012 specific URL"
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