#indiewebcamp 2015-05-15

2015-05-15 UTC
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tantek
bret - I don't have micropub support yet :(
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bret
i know, but I'm curious specific needs falcon would need
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bret
would it be just created a new file? or would we need to xpath into some bim file with new content? that sort of thing
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tantek
probably more like the latter - though with a DOM AppendChild kind of thing
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tantek
that's currently how I automatically store syndication URLs after POSSEing to Twitter
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GWG
Good evening
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tantek
bret - do you have a minute to help with documenting some /webaction fallback URLs?
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GWG
What is going on with Yoast?
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tantek.com
edited /webactions (-74) "/* History */ merge 2012 sections"
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GWG
I use Yoast, but I've been thinking of dropping it in favor of adding my own markup.
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tantek.com
edited /Special:Log/move () "moved [[permalinks]] to [[permalink]] over redirect: singular"
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gRegorLove
GWG: See /WordPress_SEO_by_Yoast and feel free to add yourself to an examples section.
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loqi.me
created /URL_slug (+17) "prompted by gRegorLove and dfn added by gRegorLove"
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loqi.me
created /URL_slugs (+17) "prompted by gRegorLove and dfn added by gRegorLove"
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tantek
gRegorLove: I thought we already had a page about slugs
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gRegorLove
redirects
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tantek
got it
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GWG
I actually do have something to add
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tantek.com
edited /logo (+92) "add 500px version"
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tantek.com
edited /logo (+340)
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bret
tantek: walking home right now
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tantek.com
edited /logo (+0) "/* Square Icon */"
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kylewm
GWG: why does it say bad practice to add the blog title after the post name?
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kylewm
blog name after the post title*
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Vendan
hrm, https://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol#5._Redirect_to_web_application shows a http 302 to redirect from the auth endpoint back to the site
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GWG
It was a bad practice to have the theme do that.
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Vendan
potentially dangerous, as a 302 says in the specs to send the exact same request to that url
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GWG
kylewm: Although I'm not sure if there is an advantage to automatically adding it to the title tag
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Vendan
and if they got that response back from a post with their username/password, that would cause them to make a post with username/password to the web app (not many browsers do this according to spec, but a 303 is spec for "make a GET to this url")
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kylewm
GWG: cool makes sense, for once i should've read the commetns
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GWG
kylewm: I think it explains the inconsistency. It isn't Yoast exactly.
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gRegorLove
Sometimes I wish browsers would 'extend' the page so an anchor link near the bottom still works, bringing the content right to the top of the window
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gRegorLove
Took me a moment to figure out which comment to read
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Vendan
kylewm, "is considered to be an implementation detail"
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kylewm
right, i didn't say "requires" i said "uses"
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Vendan
just saying, it's a potentially dangerous example
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Vendan
so indieauth is a simplified oauth2?
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kylewm
indieauth is an implementation of OAuth2
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Vendan
cool, there's things that weren't really explained in the spec on the wiki
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Vendan
2616 rewrote what 302 means
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Vendan
and, 2616 added 303 and 307 to specify exactly how to handle get vs post
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kylewm
Vendan: so you're saying, if instead of indieauth.com, you used an implementation that is username/password. you POST your username/password, and in response it 302 redirects you back to the redirect_uri?
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Vendan
yeah, with the token and such as query params
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Vendan
under a 1.0 compliant browser, your username and password will get posted to that app
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kylewm
and if the browser followed the spec it would POST to that redirect_url instead of GET?
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Vendan
not saying that's common or anything, but anything that follows the new spec of ask first will honor a 303 and convert the request into a plain GET
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kylewm
indieweb is pragmatic :)
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@progunbobby
#gunsense RT progunbobby: #gunsense #gunsense #gunsense Just got these in today! Help me support #Local #IndieAuth… https://twitter.com/verbingmynouns/status/599008594558898178/photo/1
(twitter.com/_/status/599021970722791425)
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Vendan
hrm, so that sucks
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Vendan
the standard indieauth stuff doesn't seem to work with http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol
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Vendan
"Support for your own IndieAuth server is coming soon!"... lovely
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kylewm
Vendan: you can log into reader.kylewm.com with your own indieauth implementation
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kylewm
also quill.p3k.io i'm pretty sure
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kylewm
although that needs micropub
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gRegorLove
Where's that, Vendan? I don't know much about IndieAuth, but I thought at least one other person (cweiske) has set up their own IndieAuth server
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aaronpk
i'm pretty sure every micropub client doesn't use indieauth.com
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kylewm
good point
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Vendan
true, though the wiki and such do
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kylewm
yeah the wiki plugin uses indieauth.com
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Vendan
gRegorLove, building an indieauth server library here: https://github.com/andyleap/goindieauth
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gRegorLove
I think that's mostly Mediawiki plugin being a pain in the neck
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aaronpk
yeah things that use indieauth for just login, not authorization, are more likely to use indieauth.com
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GWG
I'm trying to set my Indieweb goal for the weekend.
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Vendan
kylewm: got a "Login error: authorization failed. Unknown Error: Unknown Error" error is most likely my end, but any ideas what it might be?
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Vendan
nvm, figured it out and fixed it
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Vendan
woo, I can now login using indieauth without having to rely on a third party server!
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Loqi
woot
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Vendan
ugh, anyone on that's implemented a token endpoint?
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Vendan
is it just me, or does a token endpoint seem little different then indieauthprotocol with a code response type?
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Vendan
afaict, the token endpoint stuff seems *identical* to step 6 on http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol
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kylewm
hmm, I don't remember it being particularly weird
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Vendan
is your source up anywhere?
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Vendan
ahhh, so it's indieauth, then, when you get the code, instead of verifying it, pass it off to the token endpoint to get the access token
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Vendan
thanks, that makes more sense
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kylewm
yeah, typically with oauth2, it's the same server providing the authorization code and the access token, but aaronpk split them up so they could conceivably be two different sources
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kylewm
but it's the same flow as normal, you get a temporary code, and then exchange it for a permanent access token
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Vendan
well, here goes, I made a indieauth endpoint in a few hours, I got most of the start of my micropub endpoint done
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Vendan
now I just need to get a token endpoint done
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kylewm
awesome!
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Vendan
still being held together with some hacksauce glue, but WOO
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Vendan
one of my goals is to build as much of it as libraries as possible
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KartikPrabhu
Vendan++ on such rapid indieweb progress
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Loqi
Vendan has 6 karma
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KartikPrabhu
is unfortunately too busy with other things to really build indieweb things
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Vendan
I saw indiewebify.me on HN last saturday? and was like "That's awesome!"
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KartikPrabhu
the HN response was a bit disappointing though. Most people didn't seem to get the point
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kylewm
vendan++
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Loqi
vendan has 7 karma
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: I feel like you just described everything posted on HN ever?
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ben_thatmustbeme
Vendan: ownyourgram has done of the best walk through for implementing a token endpoint
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Vendan
it's implemented, now just tracking down bugs
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Vendan
WOOOOOOOO
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Vendan
micropub!
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Vendan
still some stuff to work on, like scope selection in the indieauth section
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Vendan
but at least now I don't have to deal with building a post ui right away, as I can just use Quill
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: tbh that is the only thread I have actually visited on HN ever
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KartikPrabhu
my impression of Internet forums/comments is not favourable
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@commonstandard
IndieWeb - a people-focused alternative to the ‘corporate web’ http://indiewebcamp.com/
(twitter.com/_/status/599075251964612608)
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rhiaro
So I indiereposted something that aaronpk had possed to twitter, then pasted the URL into bridgy publish and it knew to retweet aaron's possed version even though the possed version had no link back in HOW DID IT KNO- oh the syndication link in the original post, thanks for being my rubber duck indiewebcamp
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rhiaro
goes to add syndication markup to everything
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rhiaro
but now my repost shows up twice at the bottom of aaronpk's post, one for my site and one for twitter, though the twitter one doesn't get the twitter icon over it
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petermolnar
GWG are you around?
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@ajspadial
2) Pa la peña de @indiewebcamp @unhosted ya @IndieHosters, por faer fácil la rede comu yo la entiendo. Gracies pol enllaz @Leidan
(twitter.com/_/status/599134858246529026)
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petermolnar
!tell GWG you asked do we still need for WordPress: a follow/aggregator plugin. I know we have whisperfollow but I could not get that working
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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ajspadial
Hi #indiewebcamp
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ben_thatmustbeme
good morning #indiewebcamp
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Vendan
good morning
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GWG
Good morning
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Loqi
GWG: petermolnar left you a message 4 hours, 7 minutes ago: you asked do we still need for WordPress: a follow/aggregator plugin. I know we have whisperfollow but I could not get that working http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-15/line/1431680326549
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petermolnar
so, what do you think:?
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GWG
petermolnar: What would it look like?
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GWG
I'm trying to picture it. I've seen Whisperfollow.
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petermolnar
I'd do an admin-only interface, kind of like an rss-reader, with reply/repost/like/etc buttons
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petermolnar
those would send webmentions
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GWG
Let me think about that. I run tt-rss on my server for RSS right now. I wonder if it can give me some ideas.
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petermolnar
I'm still using rss2email; it made me realize how un-user-friendly it is
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petermolnar
what if... we have an endpoint, which accepts "follow" requests and which sends a webmention type=ping/update to all the followers about the updates? pubsub with webmention, bacically, I know it might just reinvent the wheel, but still
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Vendan
why not just implement simplified pubsub?
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Vendan
nothing about pubsub says you need a hub or anything
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petermolnar
pubsub is not robust enough imho; this would be more like newsletters used to be
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Vendan
what's "not robust" about it?
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GWG
I'm just trying to picture it within the WordPress framework
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petermolnar
I might be mixing it up with the redis pubsub, but in redis' case, if you're not listening at the point of the pub, the event is lost
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Vendan
if you don't return a 2xx code to the "hub", the hub MUST consider it a failure and retry
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Vendan
well, SHOULD retry, but it still MUST consider it a failure
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petermolnar
I meant from the client perspective
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Vendan
that's what I'm talking about
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Vendan
if a subscriber doesn't return a 2xx from the content distribution endpoint, it MUST be considered failure
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Vendan
and I have yet to hear of a diff for html in any spec, so each content distribution needs the full content of the notification anyways
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GWG
petermolnar: I remember discussing a follow and unfollow post type...where a post was made indicating one or the other.
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petermolnar
a webmention should be enough for that notification
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voxpelli
petermolnae: GWG: I'm thinking indie-reader -> micropub -> WordPress-site -> publishes follow activity -> WebMentions the followed URL
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voxpelli
no need to have the indie-reader be part of the same WordPress-installation as the user's profile
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Vendan
personally, the way I see it, most sites are going to have PuSH so that indie-reader type stuff works smoothly, so the follow activity should both webmention and subscribe for PuSH
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GWG
petermolnar: Maybe, but in an activity stream, following is a common action.
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GWG
voxpelli: By that token, it might not be built into Wordpress, only integrated
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voxpelli
talked a bit about that with Julien of Superfeedr about micropub + follow support in SubToMe: https://twitter.com/voxpelli/status/591313486132736000
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@voxpelli
@julien51 To go all Indieweb on you: Perhaps Micropub-support in Subtome – publish follow activity to ones blog which could then WebMention?
(twitter.com/_/status/591313486132736000)
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GWG
What is SubToMe?
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Loqi
SubToMe is a button content publishers can put on their sites which enables users to subscribe to their feed in whatever reader they choose — sort of a universal follow button https://indiewebcamp.com/SubToMe
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kodfabrik.se
edited /SubToMe (+66) "Adding my blog as an IndieWeb example"
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petermolnar
that subtome idea I like a lot
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petermolnar
and I also think I need a coffee because I just wrote an English sentence with non-English grammer
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petermolnar
s/grammer/grammar/
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Loqi
petermolnar meant to say: and I also think I need a coffee because I just wrote an English sentence with non-English grammar
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: and cc tantek when he will eventually read these logs, the notifications should be able to include other people, yes. But usually you only get a subset of the activities they do (facebook). I'm thinking maybe we should list all the ways sites do it. Facebook gives you notifications of any updates to your posts (likes, comments, etc), as well as (some) updates from people who are close friends
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ben_thatmustbeme
G+ is odd in that you get notifications on any updates to your own posts as well as any updates to posts you have commented on (which can get pretty noisy)
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GWG
petermolnar: Did you ever look at my Web Actions plugin?
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petermolnar
I did but to be honest, I need to refresh my memories
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GWG
It's the one that has the reply, like, etc setup so you could send replies into your site using a URL.
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GWG
Okay, photo posting UI times out on mobile. Darn
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petermolnar.eu
edited /SubToMe (+102) "/* Indieweb Examples */"
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petermolnar.eu
edited /User:Petermolnar.eu (-317) "/* my stuff for WordPress */"
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petermolnar.eu
edited /User:Petermolnar.eu (+317) "/* website setup */"
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Vendan
hrm, so micropub and indieauth stuff is all working nicely, I guess I should get webmention workin
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zachdonovan
good afternoon, indieweb!
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oddvar
hey guys, are you taking proposals for talks/sessions for indie web camp portland?
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Vendan
good afternoon to you too, my good sir
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aaronpk
oddvar: indiewebcamp is unconference style, so the schedule is set the morning of the event
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kylewm
Oddvar: You're welcome to discuss your idea here or add it to the wiki event page though
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aaronpk
it's also more collaborative session style rather than presentations
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aaronpk
it is always nice to get ideas of what people are intereste din before hand, we've had a section on the wiki to collect session ideas before the camp in the past
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oddvar
yes, that's the vibe I got from the wiki :)
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oddvar
ok cool
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Vendan
I don't know if there's anyone else from the central north carolina region on here, but I would be interested in a remote IWC party in Winston-Salem, NC
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Vendan
I might be able to talk the hackerspace I'm a member at into letting me open up the doors for the party, so we'd have a couple rooms with tables/chairs, wifi, and a bigscreen tv and projector
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aaronpk
that'd be cool! we're going to try to broadcast as much as possible from pdx
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Vendan
heh, well, I can probably arrange to have the projector stream what you broadcast in the one room
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Vendan
I'll double check with the guys at the hackerspace and see what they think of it
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GWG
That reminds me that I need to plan if I can come
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KevinMarks_
hmm, when I search for indieweb on facebook I get http://indieweb.co/
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aaronpk
weird, from the TOS, "by and between IndieWeb.co, an AZ individual ("IndieWeb.co") and you"
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aaronpk
why would IndieWeb.co be the name of a person?
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KevinMarks_
legla person
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KevinMarks_
I applied to get the instant articles docs on behalf of indieweb
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KevinMarks_
not doubt they'll ignore me
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KevinMarks_
but if they are parsing html to make articels I think that's in our scope
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aaronpk
there is no record of indieweb.co in arizona
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KevinMarks_
no indieweb in us trademark database
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@zooko
@AlecMuffett I firmly believe that today 99.99% of users never parse URLs, and we could just stuff public keys and hashes into all of them.
(twitter.com/_/status/599248269164695553)
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aaronpk
interestingly i've been noticing a trend of brands moving away from putting their URLs on things and instead just putting hashtags
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rhiaro
jnjknk'\
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aaronpk
so much for that password :P
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KevinMarks_
hashtags are the new aol keywords
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KevinMarks_
or something
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aaronpk
i dunno, it's not like you can register them
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aaronpk
and it's primarily user-generated content on hashtags
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aaronpk
and they exist on multiple silos, not just one
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KevinMarks_
human-menaingful and decentralised, not secure
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rhiaro
oops I was juggling laptop, charger, mug of tea, german guys running the hallways, and door key. Guess jnjknk'/ sums up how I feel about that.
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Vendan
heh, my post permalinks are unix nanoseconds
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KevinMarks_
because golang is that fast...
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Vendan
xLCL1QqckumMAg== is the nanosecond the post was created
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KevinMarks_
you could probably go with a lower resolution
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Vendan
stored as 2 varints, then base64 encoded
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Vendan
I need to build a better ID for my DB, really
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KevinMarks_
I can't really criticise
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Vendan
I may just end up making it something like http://vendaria.net/post/Post-Title-Here/xLCL1QqckumMAg==
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Vendan
KevinMarks_, what is that ask.willsomeone.com running on?
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KevinMarks_
appengine, so those are google's IDs (I was going to use something else, but Chris liked having obscure URLs to imply non-dicsoverability)
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snarfed
KevinMarks_: Key('Asklist', 'someone', 'Ask', 6534217215246336) ? :P
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snarfed
(sorry for being obnoxious; couldn't help it)
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KevinMarks_
you broke my secret code
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KevinMarks_
(currently undoing the code change from the other dev that makes lots of separate datastore queries per page)
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snarfed
asyncing them? or just dropping them?
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KevinMarks_
denormalising (It's the broken user model - not having names by default means they were stored elsewhere, and the join was written niavely)
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KartikPrabhu
oh noes: this week in Indiewebcamp was marked as Spam by Gmail!!
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kylewm
gmail--
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Loqi
gmail has 0 karma
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snarfed
emaildeliverability--
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Loqi
emaildeliverability has -1 karma
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snarfed
such a tar pit
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: it'd be interesting to know why, Fastmail has it as 0.0% spam
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KartikPrabhu
KevinMarks_ for a UI to get fragmention from selected text, do you think it is better to warn the user that the text is not the first one, or just use the nth-instance convention for fragmentions?
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KevinMarks_
warning is tricky to do well
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KevinMarks_
if you can do it as they're selecting maybe (like search does as you type showing number of results)
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KartikPrabhu
I see. will look into it. thanks :)
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kylewm.com
edited /game_play (+1) "typo. boargamegeek -> boardgamegeek.com"
(view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
boar game! lol
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: Gmail said "their spam detection has found 'similar' mails as spam"
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: kylewm: honestly, run away from debugging email deliverability and never look back. you'll never win, nor will you ever get those X hours of your life back. ever.
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KartikPrabhu
runs away now
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snarfed
approves
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aaronpk
snarfed++
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Loqi
snarfed has 104 karma
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KartikPrabhu
is too far away running to receive approval!
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kylewm
hmm, i don't really agree :p might have been relatively low hanging fruit like SPF or DKIM or whatever
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aaronpk
i believe i have neither of those set up
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aaronpk
fwiw it did not get marked as spam for me
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KartikPrabhu
is not listening to kylewm. plugs ears with fingers and shakes head
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aaronpk
la la la i can't hear you
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kylewm
gmails headers were actuallly pretty informative when i was debugging my mail server
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kylewm
but annnnyways
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aaronpk
take it to #indieemailcamp kylewm :P
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snarfed
steeples his fingers
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snarfed
"eeeeeexxcellent"
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kylewm
#indieemailcamp is lonely, just me and EvilTantek
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KartikPrabhu
"ha haha, ha haha" "if anyone rememebers Mandark
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KevinMarks_
so, not calling the datastore in a loop changed response time from 4 seconds to 300ms yay
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Loqi
yay!
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aaronpk
lol yeah...
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snarfed
KevinMarks++
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Loqi
KevinMarks has 111 karma
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snarfed
btw i assume you've used appstats before?
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snarfed
if not try it, it's awesome
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KevinMarks_
yes, that's how I found what had happened
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KevinMarks_
though it showing the actual query would be even better
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KevinMarks_
snarfed: I can do things after sending the response in appengine?
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: after writing the response body? sure
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: but not after returning from the handler
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KevinMarks_
that's fine. So I cna clean up the db to have the denormalised stuff in after responding
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snarfed
you can, but consider using task queue instead
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snarfed
the deferred lib makes it really trivial. you can even define tasks inline as lambdas, or tiny nested fns
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Vendan
KevinMarks_, lol, I was going to say it was running slow, but didn't want to be rude :D
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KevinMarks_
there's some other broken things too, like lots of fetches of tiny files
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Vendan
hrm, I need to do some optimizations, I'm up to 80ms for index page render
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GWG
I'm wondering if zachdonovan's workplace would work for a IWC in NYC.
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