#indiewebcamp 2015-05-12

2015-05-12 UTC
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KevinMarks__
so possibly failing partway through?
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kylewm
looking at the log
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KevinMarks__
so wordpress works, but doesn't take images
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GWG
sighs
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KevinMarks__
yes, imaegs go thorugh on blogger
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kylewm
unfortunately I'm not logging enough to see why Tumblr isn't quite working for you
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kylewm
it worked for me and returned a location and everything
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kylewm
KevinMarks__: actually nevermind, the problem is that your micropub_endpoint on http://kevinmarks.tumblr.com/ is http:// instead of https://
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kylewm
which works but returns a redirect instead of a 201 that quill expects
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KevinMarks__
hm, it worked before
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KevinMarks__
OK, I'll change it'
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kylewm
I added some code to force heroku to always serve from https
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kylewm
probably a horrid hack
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bengo
@kylewm What was it? I can confirm if it's horrid :P
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bengo
did that recently too for indieweb-example.herokuapp.com
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kylewm
lol, bengo
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kylewm
turns out it was "from flask_sslify import SSLify"
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kylewm
so I have no idea
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bengo
I think it's just
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bengo
if the incoming protocol isn't https, redirect to HTTPS
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bengo
optionally also checking the X-Forwarded-Proto header
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bengo
which is what heroku passes along if it terminates the SSL and sends you non-ssl
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KevinMarks__
but can you redirect a POST?
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bengo
You CAN
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bengo
browsers won't follow it
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bengo
well... it will, but it will follow it with a GET
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bengo
not a POST to the Location header of your response
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KevinMarks__
so when getting the micropub url, follow redirects and cache the redirected one?
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KevinMarks__
ah, you're sending a 302, kylewm saying not to cache the redirect
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KevinMarks__
if you sent a 301, the caller SHOULD cache the redirect instread
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bengo
The server should probably be using a 301 or 307 instead
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bengo
"Many web browsers implemented this code in a manner that violated this standard, changing the request type of the new request to GET, regardless of the type employed in the original request (e.g. POST).[1] For this reason, HTTP/1.1 (RFC 2616) added the new status codes 303 and 307 to disambiguate between the two behaviours, with 303 mandating the change of request type to GET, and 307 preserving the request type as
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bengo
originally sent. "
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KevinMarks__
my point is that if my tumblr points to the http version, quill will fetch that, get a 302 and then not cache the https one
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KevinMarks__
whereas a 301 would mean 'caceh the https one'
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kylewm
well it looks like SSLify does support an option "permanent" to use 301 instead of 302
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kylewm
but i kinda doubt Quill would do anything special with redirects of either kind?
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bengo
308 is probably the most explicit thing... It's means permanent and explicitly-repeat-POST
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kylewm
Tumblr and Blogspot both supported data:images ??!
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KevinMarks__
looks like it
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KevinMarks___
I suppose if I give an image too big for local storage could mung it client side in canvas
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@PinPopular
IndieWebify.Me - a guide to getting you on the IndieWeb http://indiewebify.me/
(twitter.com/_/status/597923166904655872)
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Vendan
hrm, for the indie messaging stuff, wouldn't it make sense to check to see if the target has a u-key for public/private key encryption, and encrypt the message with that key?
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kylewm
Vendan: that's one possibility sure
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kylewm
but do you really want your private key on your webserver?
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Vendan
hrm, true
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acegiak
KevinMarks__: so are you posseing to tumblr?
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KevinMarks_
Through fever dream, but manually at the moment
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KevinMarks_
But I could set something up to fan out to tumblr, WordPress and blogger
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acegiak
ah ok, neat. I'm interested in how people do their tumblr posseing
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Vendan
heh, I may posse notes to twitter, but I'm not really on any other social network
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acegiak
tumblr is my main social network
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KevinMarks___
Did you try feverdream, acegiak?
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acegiak
Kevinmarks, not really because I'm pretty happy with my POSSE setup as it is
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acegiak
but I'm keeping an eye out for any solutions that can do what I'm already doing with my hacky code but properly
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Vendan
well, I've managed to start posting notes that are marked up with h-entry, the main page has a h-feed, and I've got a h-card set up with a smattering of info
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KevinMarks__
what kyle built with feverdream points towards a "micropub as POSSE" path
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KevinMarks__
great vendan
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KevinMarks__
so do webmentions from you look good now?
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KevinMarks__
my tumblr is more of a tumbleweed
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Vendan
not quite at the point of webmentions
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Vendan
that's next step
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KevinMarks__
right, but you can send them with indiewebify.me to check your markup works
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Vendan
markup isn't working for them, actually, there is no markup for them really
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Vendan
can't currently put a arbitrary html in, and there's no parsing to turn urls into links yet
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Vendan
golang's template system is rather hardcore about disallowing XSS and similar
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Vendan
it's kinda crazy, it parses the html in the template to the point where it knows if it's in an html attribute or a text node or what, and automatically escapes the inserted content
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KevinMarks__
you could port https://github.com/kylewm/cassis-autolink-py (or the js/php original)
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Vendan
probably do something like that
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Vendan
really just need to get a general "this looks something like a url" and run it through http://golang.org/pkg/net/url/#Parse
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KevinMarks__
there is the regex from hell in that file that does that
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KevinMarks__
'(?:\\@[_a-zA-Z0-9]{1,17})|(?:(?:(?:(?:http|https|irc)?:\\/\\/(?:(?:[!$&-.0-9;=?A-Z_a-z]|(?:\\%[a-fA-F0-9]{2}))+(?:\\:(?:[!$&-.0-9;=?A-Z_a-z]|(?:\\%[a-fA-F0-9]{2}))+)?\\@)?)?(?:(?:(?:[a-zA-Z0-9][-a-zA-Z0-9]*\\.)+(?:(?:aero|arpa|asia|a[cdefgilmnoqrstuwxz])|(?:biz|b[abdefghijmnorstvwyz])|(?:cat|com|coop|c[acdfghiklmnoruvxyz])|d[ejkmoz]|(?:edu|e[cegrstu])|f[ijkmor]|(?:gov|g[abdefghilmnpqrstuwy])|h[kmnrtu]|(?:info|int|i[delmno
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KevinMarks__
i'm not sure quite how tantek came up with that, but we use it and stand well back
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Vendan
yeah, I looked at the source of it, what you pasted got cut short
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Vendan
quite short
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Vendan
not sure about the concept of doing that hardcore of validation in regex
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Vendan
I'd feel better getting a rough handle on where the url is, letting golang's stdlib parse it for me, then do some further validation if I want to throw out stuff like .mobi or .jobs
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acegiak
KevinMarks_: I hadn't thought of using micropub for posse!
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kylewm
cassis does actually do some validation and post-processing outside of the regex
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kylewm
for example it removes trailing )'s unless there is a ( in the path part of the url
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raucao
figured out why bridgy stopped working with my known
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raucao
apparently it relies on links within the tweet to send webmentions to
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raucao
i thought the twitter plugin would somehow announce what it publishes so that bridgy can keep the url with the tweet id or sth
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elf-pavlik
waves o/
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raucao
would hate to re-add post links to every tweet, as it means less characters
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raucao
elf-pavlik: hey man!
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raucao
missed you at the camp
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elf-pavlik
yeah, i missed the camp as well :(
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raucao
i meant we missed you at the camp, not that i missed it :)
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elf-pavlik
i understood
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raucao
oh i see
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elf-pavlik
i missed both, camp and you :(
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raucao
you're in berlin?
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elf-pavlik
how did it go?
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raucao
was really nice
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elf-pavlik
in Braunschweig, will come to Berlin soon
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rhiaro
Hey elf-pavlik
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elf-pavlik
hey rhiaro :D
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rhiaro
How's it going?
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elf-pavlik
great!
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elf-pavlik
and you?
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rhiaro
Also great!
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rhiaro
Last day in Dusseldorf
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elf-pavlik
i realized that my diagram on github doesn't accomodate well activities like hug, kiss and cuddle ;) https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/issues/12
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elf-pavlik
also teach and learn, since one also learns by teaching
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elf-pavlik
needs to redraw it...
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: i don't think the digital world accomodates all physical world activities yet
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elf-pavlik
KartikPrabhu, we can still log our outernet activities online e.g. http://aaronparecki.com/metrics
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rhiaro
KartikPrabhu: people still post about them, but what level of modeling for online is hard
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KartikPrabhu
yes. elf-pavlik rhiaro :)
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rhiaro
elf-pavlik: maybe this conversation should be in #social :)
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elf-pavlik
jumping
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KartikPrabhu
I have found it easier to replicate existing digital world social behavior on my site, rather than worry about the most general possible digital expression
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elf-pavlik
KartikPrabhu, http://indiewebcamp.com/elf-pavlik
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elf-pavlik
"add detailed logs of my usage of public transport, I take public transport without buying tickets and would like that everyone can fully analyse my consumption habits in this field"
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: sure but does anyone consume it yet?
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KartikPrabhu
or has anyone expressed interest in consuming it
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elf-pavlik
does it matter? if i don't start publishing it we will have chickent and egg issue
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elf-pavlik
public transport agencies i hope
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elf-pavlik
KartikPrabhu, i don't focus on 'blogger' centric requirements
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elf-pavlik
i focus on *social* and also *economic*
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KartikPrabhu
hmmm personally I'm not interested in "agencies" or "organisations" consuming what I publish. More about my friends and so on
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KartikPrabhu
I don't either :)
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elf-pavlik
well, i hope i will make friends also with people who run public transportation
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KartikPrabhu
I focus on "what I want to publish" so that my friends "might wan to see"
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elf-pavlik
similar here, many people ask "how do you manage to leave without using money", by publishing detalied logs of my consumptions / contributions everyone can take a look and answer this question to oneself :)
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elf-pavlik
DRY
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elf-pavlik
my old note on individuals and organizations https://n-1.cc/photos/image/96936/p2p-individuals-and-companies-of-individuals
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elf-pavlik
please note #ownyourdata element to it :)
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KartikPrabhu
in that respect, it would be good for "everyone" if there existed tools to interpret this data. Pure data is mostly useless unless you know how to extract meaning from it
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elf-pavlik
i agree, but you often need raw data to build tools for interpreting it
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elf-pavlik
s/you often need/one often needs/
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Loqi
elf-pavlik meant to say: i agree, but one often needs raw data to build tools for interpreting it
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KartikPrabhu
true. but unless those tools are available the data is mostly useless
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elf-pavlik
again, we need to deal with chicken and egg issue all the time
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KartikPrabhu
speaks from experience listening to experimental science talks about data :P
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KartikPrabhu
elf-pavlik: lest I come off as dismissive, I do realise that having data is the first step to using it :)
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elf-pavlik
:)
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KartikPrabhu
rhiaro: btw good post testing aaronpk's fancy new article posting tool
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aaronpk
good morning #indiewebcamp!
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elf-pavlik
ahoy aaronpk o/
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elf-pavlik
i feel curious about your feedback on idea of marking all content included via webmention with h-cite https://github.com/converspace/webmention/issues/40
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elf-pavlik
rhiaro, ^
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rhiaro
I agree with what aaronpk just replied :)
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elf-pavlik
i don't understand why h-cite would have to do with display?
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elf-pavlik
for me h-cite suggests: "In this context consider this data as embedded/trascluded from elsewhere"
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rhiaro
elf-pavlik: the wm spec doesn't have anything to do with what people do with replies when they get them, including how to mark up
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elf-pavlik
"ceivers SHOULD moderate Webmentions, and if a link is displayed back to the source, SHOULD link to source with rel="nofollow" to prevent spam."
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elf-pavlik
"4. Alice's publishing software verifies that Bob's post actually contains a link to her post and then includes this information on her site."
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elf-pavlik
of course i don't say that it should put normative requirement on using h-cite or microformats at all :)
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rhiaro
defers to aaronpk and goes for a run
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elf-pavlik
enjoy!
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aaronpk
elf-pavlik: that's there because it was in pingback
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elf-pavlik
aaronpk, i guess by 'display' you meant including in page without refering to how it appears to person looking at it?
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aaronpk
i mean anything that isn't just verifying the webmention and storing it
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elf-pavlik
i agree that it fits the same bucket as rel="nofollow", i also suggested possibility of adding it in the same section
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aaronpk
yeah i think that's fine
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aaronpk
which is what i thought i said on the github thread
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elf-pavlik
yes, i misunderstood the 'display' part
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elf-pavlik
replied on gh, thx!
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petermolnar.eu
edited /Flickr (+206) "/* Criticism */"
(view diff)
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petermolnar.eu
edited /Flickr (+128) "/* Downtime */"
(view diff)
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@derhess
Another interesting #indieweb #indiedev meeting in Düsseldorf in ca. 10 days http://decentralizecamp.com/schedule #decentralize
(twitter.com/_/status/598077927734009856)
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@TheIndieSloth
RT @derhess: Another interesting #indieweb #indiedev meeting in Düsseldorf in ca. 10 days http://decentralizecamp.com/schedule #decentralize
(twitter.com/_/status/598077971736440832)
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@FlappyTeam
RT derhess: Another interesting #indieweb #indiedev meeting in Düsseldorf in ca. 10 days http://decentralizecamp.com/schedule #decentralize (via TheInd…
(twitter.com/_/status/598080184328310785)
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elf-pavlik
people keep tweeting about this *last year* event (2014) https://twitter.com/elfpavlik/status/598079526040641536
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@dkreuz
RT @derhess: Another interesting #indieweb #indiedev meeting in Düsseldorf in ca. 10 days http://decentralizecamp.com/schedule #decentralize
(twitter.com/_/status/598082621508329472)
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@derhess
Sorry I was wrong! there is no #indieweb meeting in Düsseldorf... I missed the year.. It was for 2014 and not for this year 2015. sorry!
(twitter.com/_/status/598082641900998656)
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GWG
Okay, photo posting support in my webactions plugin, check. I'm now ready to go picture taking.
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zachdonovan
GWG: good morning!
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Loqi
zachdonovan: GWG left you a message 2 days, 10 hours ago: tantek gave me, inadvertently, a good venue idea http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-09/line/1431224657833
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zachdonovan
got it :)
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zachdonovan
GWG: Schnipper's at 7:30 is great for me!
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kylewm
!tell raucao you don't have to include links in you twitter copies for bridgy to work. See /posse-post-discovery. Let me know if you want help debugging bridgy
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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raucao
kylewm: yer, i found the faq entry about links
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Loqi
raucao: kylewm left you a message 28 seconds ago: you don't have to include links in you twitter copies for bridgy to work. See /posse-post-discovery. Let me know if you want help debugging bridgy http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-12/line/1431437712241
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raucao
i can help with debugging yes
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raucao
wanted to first try and add the feed link to the site that was previously linked in my twitter profile. do you know if it checks every time? if i had written it, i'd probably cache things
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GWG
zachdonovan: Great. Updating
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GWG
zachdonovan: We have at least 50% more attendance than last time
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zachdonovan
yes, I saw!
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kylewm
raucao:yes it caches the url in your profile, if you change the url and reauth Twitter, it will pick up the new one
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@RikMende
This note sum's up pretty much all the reason why I'm also interested in the #indieweb philosophy & community http://www.rmendes.net/2015/this-note-sums-up-pretty-much-all-the-reason-why
(twitter.com/_/status/598121007560273920)
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zachdonovan
GWG: I invited a few people as well
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GWG
zachdonovan: Tantek is very charismatic. I imagine that others will follow.
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GWG
zachdonovan: I am arranging to beat the traffic this time
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zachdonovan
excellent!
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zachdonovan
I wish you smoother travels this time
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GWG
zachdonovan: It was smooth going home that night
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Loqi
[mention] Kyle Mahan posted 'IndieWebCamp Testing posse bookmarks to facebook and twitter' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/ (https://kylewm.withknown.com/2015/indiewebcamp)
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raucao
kylewm: cool, thx
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kylewm
I added a "N New Posts" button that appears when new entries are available but hidden, at the top of reader.kylewm.com ... was fed up with it scrolling away from me while i'm reading a long article
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ben_thatmustbeme
kylewm: what do you think about being able to discover multiple feeds when adding a person?
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ben_thatmustbeme
search the page for h-feed but also for links with rel='feed' title='photos only feed' etc
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme: makes sense to me, does anyone publish feeds like that?
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ben_thatmustbeme
i will be shortly
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aaronpk
i will be soon as well
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually... I am now!
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ben_thatmustbeme
i just don't have a firehose feed yet outside of the home page
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Vendan
microformats parser can read the rel links easily anyways, just sift through the feed key of the rels portion. Only issue is you lose all the extra context of the link
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Vendan
like the title...
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme: is there a good way to know whether rel="feed" will be text/html and not RSS?
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aaronpk
there's a content type attribute on rel links
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ben_thatmustbeme
ahh, good point, i am supposed to be including that
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kylewm
Vendan: check out the new rel-urls feature on mf2py :)
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kylewm
yep, exactly
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Vendan
k, I'll see about adding that to my parser as well
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Vendan
gonna throw off all the rel parsing test :(
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ben_thatmustbeme
fixed, all my links include type="text/html"
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Vendan
heh, so you can sift through rss and atom feeds and pick out the microformat ones?
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kylewm
it's a little bit weird that i'll have to iterate through the rel-urls key to find that link
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Vendan
kylewm, why iterate, the url is the key to the rel-urls array
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Vendan
*hash*
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kylewm
Vendan: right, if my use case is "find all the URLs that are rel=feed and type=text/html", then i need to iterate over the whole hash
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ben_thatmustbeme
wonder how we can keep the context where title=""
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ben_thatmustbeme
i feel like that would be pretty important for the UI of the reader to have a description with it
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Vendan
right, though you could grab the rels["feed"] and cross reference at that point
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Vendan
ben_thatmustbeme, that's what rel-urls is for
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Vendan
kylewm, wonder if there should be a h-remotefeed or something, so people that are exposing multiple feed types could have them grouped together
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: my site also has many feeds linked from the homepage
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: cool, I'll try adding support for the rn
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ben_thatmustbeme
note that some of mine are actually in <link> tags in the header
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ben_thatmustbeme
though i think i shoudl probably now filter my list of categories that show up to only those that have more than 2 posts or something
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Vendan
interesting
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tantek
good morning #indiewebcamp!
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ben_thatmustbeme
good morning tantek
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tantek
I think we should not depend on nor recommend anything to use "nofollow" - it's been horribly abused and now I think it's bad for web publishing in general.
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tantek
primary abuse of nofollow has been social silos using it on *2nd party* content (posts), not just 3rd party content (comments). And nevermind the wikipedia abuse.
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aaronpk
i'm all for dropping it from the webmention recommendation in favor of talking about h-cite
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ben_thatmustbeme
and what does that do to vouch?
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tantek
yes let's drop all mention of nofollow from webmention
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tantek
checking
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tantek
ah - it was only in ()? expressions, so we can drop it
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tantek
if an actual problem comes up with nofollow links, let's find another way to solve it
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tantek
nofollow is basically noise at this point
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tantek
every link on every post on every silo you post has nofollow on it, even though its on an account that you authenticated etc.
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tantek
so there's tons of nofollow links that are perfectly fine, as compared to comment spam (original motivation for nofollow)
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Vendan
main reason I've seen for nofollow has been for stuff like wikis, where anyone could make lists pointing at sites to bump up their link rating
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tantek
the solution to that is to revert those edits
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tantek
not to allow only semi-bad noise
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Vendan
kinda pointless nowadays, as most search engines lower your rating for doing that now
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme: KartikPrabhu: OK added h-feed discover, please try it out!
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tantek
right, nofollow has become quite pointless
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kylewm
discovery*
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Vendan
and seems potentially harmful for social web building
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kylewm
KevinMarks++ that would've been much more difficult without the new rel-urls stuff!
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Loqi
KevinMarks has 110 karma
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tantek.com
edited /Vouch (-33) "rm 2 instances of nofollow usage, make the 3rd (in old notes) optional since it's purpose is not clear"
(view diff)
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Vendan
if someone's used webmention to insert bad links, get rid of the bad links, don't just say "oh, ignore the links"
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tantek
right
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tantek
all nofollow did was allow pollution of content to humans while providing hints at the pollution to search engines
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tantek
we should have come up with a solution to the pollution instead of annotating it :P
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Loqi
I agree
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tantek
so now we are, with vouch
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ben_thatmustbeme
kylewm: weee, thats a lot of feeds now!
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ben_thatmustbeme
and you got the titles... excellent!
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tantek
GWG, how late is Schnipper's open?
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tantek
and what do you think of an 18:30-19:30 quiet writing hour before the meetup?
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GWG
11pm
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GWG
Not a problem
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tantek
great
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme: your primary h-feed's title is truncated at 140 charazcters, otherwise it is... quite long http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fben.thatmustbe.me%2F
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ben_thatmustbeme
yes, i saw that, i need to give it some sort of proper title
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tantek
has that problem too
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tantek
!tell aaronpk do we already have a request for Loqi to drop utm_* query params from URLs before posting them to IRC? e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-12/line/1431440107827
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm++ for feed discovery
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Loqi
kylewm has 166 karma
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme++ for suggesting it
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 70 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme
kylewm++ nicely done
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Loqi
kylewm has 167 karma
snarfed joined the channel
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gRegorLove
With the removal of nofollow from /Vouch, how do we link to [bad person] without acting as a vouch for them?
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tantek
where's KevinMarks to suggest bringing back VoteLinks?
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ben_thatmustbeme
for that matter, how do we stop one person getting spammed from preventing spam to everyone they are associated with (and recurse)
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: if you have friends/sites you vouch for but don't want to use as a source of vouches yourself, you blacklist them for that purpose
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tantek
it's like real life, you say, I trust this person, but I don't trust their choice of friends :P
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tantek
(seems to happen a lot)
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, has nothing to do with trust, one hole exposes the entire network for spam immediately (assuming immediate posting of comments)
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tantek
but that was true before too - nothing to do with nofollow
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ben_thatmustbeme
recommendation had been to put nofollow on links that were comments
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ben_thatmustbeme
comment links thus could not be used for vouch
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tantek
so instead let's mark them up as …. ***comments***
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tantek
rather than some vague pseudo-semantic search-engine robots.txt inspired nonsense
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ben_thatmustbeme
comments usually have u-url back to the source though
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ben_thatmustbeme
oh, i see, you are saying adding some other value no rel=nofollow but that would work for the same purposes?
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tantek
not same purposes, one purpose
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ben_thatmustbeme
same purposes in this case, yes
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tantek
to identify is this a comment, then do what you want accordingly
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tantek
rather than making a judgment for all comments
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ben_thatmustbeme
hmmm, interesting
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tantek
that was the problem with nofollow - so poorly named that it started to get used for EVERYTHING
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ben_thatmustbeme
my original idea was to basically do no follow for anyone i am not following / friend of
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tantek
so now, it's noise
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tantek
aside, sad about Flickr upload failures
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ben_thatmustbeme
missed that, what about flickr?
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gRegorLove
Hmm, so you mean a new rel-value to indicate they're comments, or a class attribute?
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gRegorLove
Or parsing mf2, excluding links in h-cites?
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ben_thatmustbeme
that was going to be my question..
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tantek
right. there are multiple possible approaches to consider
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tantek
!tell aaronpk were there any group photos taken at IWC Germany?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme
kylewm: another idea (and i'll probably run this by you again once i am properly publishing it) is having some system to pull off of my "following" (yet to be published)
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 13 minutes ago: do we already have a request for Loqi to drop utm_* query params from URLs before posting them to IRC? e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-12/line/1431440107827 http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-12/line/1431448381800
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 17 seconds ago: were there any group photos taken at IWC Germany? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-12/line/1431449150057
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gRegorLove
This is relevant to my interests as I'm in process of writing WM+Vouch plugin and was using the nofollow route so far.
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aaronpk
Haven't uploaded anything yet
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gRegorLove
So if I should be fundamentally changing that, now would be a good time.
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aaronpk
Eye fi didn't like the venue wifi for some reason
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tantek.com
edited /2015/Germany (+200) "start blog posts and photos sections"
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aaronpk
So many blog posts from it!
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aaronpk
The most yet I think
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tantek
aaronpk - re: eye fi - note that Flickr uploading was broken this weekend.
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tantek
as in on Flickr
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tantek.com
edited /code-of-conduct-examples (+170) "add another code of conduct, based on OS Bridge, note mostly positive framing and specific community empowerment"
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aaronpk
oh yeah huh.. i seemed to be able to upload screenshots fine all weekend
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lukasrosenstock.net
edited /2015/Germany (+200) "/* Blog Posts */"
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LukasRos
I copied the posts from news section to event page.
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tantek
news is supposed to be about post about indieweb in general, not just a specific indiewebcamp per se
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tantek
are the posts about both?
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LukasRos
Both which I copied are about the event so I added them to the event. I left them in the news section as well.
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tantek
thanks LukasRos !
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LukasRos
Not sure whether they should be removed from news section, aaronpk added them there so I didn’t want to touch that.
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aaronpk
ah i wasn't aware of that distinction either
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tantek
skimming both those posts - they're both about indieweb in general as well as the camp
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tantek
so that's good to keep them in both places
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tantek
aaronpk: it's a soft distinction - we don't want to clutter the general posts about the indieweb with too many just event posts
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LukasRos
Ok. My post is only on the event which I think is fair since it doesn’t provide any generic value.
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killerog
I hadn't seen that page yet, should I add my post too?
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killerog.com
edited /2015/Germany (+105) "/* Blog Posts */ Added my blog post. Not sure if they should be arranged by date posted or just in order of being added"
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tantek
date posted is good
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killerog
Than I should rearrange it :-)
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killerog.com
edited /2015/Germany (+0) "/* Blog Posts */ Rearranged as suggested, sorry Lukas :)"
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killerog
brb, time for food
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ben_thatmustbeme
brings things to on topic that were not in this room... though he has tried to raise them in the past
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually feels that micropub would be better off posting as JSON
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tantek
link to reasons?
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tantek
have you written this up in a Brainstorming section or a post?
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ben_thatmustbeme
feels posts are better after some amount of discussion first
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GWG
Afternoon.
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ben_thatmustbeme
afternoon GWG
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zachdonovan
happy May 12th
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GWG
Is May 12th a holiday?
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KevinMarks__
the big downside is not being able to use html forms for it, ben
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: but at least a simple list of reasons?
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tantek
people made similar noises 10+ years ago about (API name) would be better off posting as XML
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tantek
and see how far that got them
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tantek
don't trust such format feels
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ben_thatmustbeme
KevinMarks__: you really can't do that now without having the auth token in the HTML. most implementations seem to post only to their own site and then use curl from some back-end
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GWG
Anyone have a good example of a photo post ui?
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aaronpk
anyone remember xmlrpc?
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ben_thatmustbeme
KevinMarks__: also, posting directly to json is coming down the pipe eventually
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GWG
aaronpk: WordPress does.
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ben_thatmustbeme
it would give us the ability to be able to tag photos at locations which we cannot currently do in micropub
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tantek
GWG, aaronpk please make that a Pepperidge Farm meme
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: that's a huge leap
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tantek
and yes you can with micropub
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aaronpk
"which we cannot do"?
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tantek
the same way you can do checkins
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tantek
at venues
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aaronpk
seems like it'd work the same way as people tagging
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme, you may be confusing syntax with design methodology
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ben_thatmustbeme
cannot do with a single post
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ben_thatmustbeme
with venues it makes sense as you create a location
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tantek
you shouldn't do with a single POST - that's the point
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Loqi
agreed.
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aaronpk
even loqi agrees
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tantek
aaronpk, more like "REMEMBER XML-RPC?" "WordPress Remembers"
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aaronpk
is not familiar with this meme
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ben_thatmustbeme
for tagging a location within a photo of a person, you have to create the photo post, then create the h-card (which are not really supposed to be objects)
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ben_thatmustbeme
i would argue anyway
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ben_thatmustbeme
THEN post for each person you want to position within each photo
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ben_thatmustbeme
you could probably do those two together actually, that would make sense
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KevinMarks__
why would you have to do that?
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aaronpk
to be clear, i'm not 100% opposed to supporting JSON posts for micropub. it's just that the only arguments for it so far have been unconvincing
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk, i know, i'm trying to make that case, and trying to figure out how to specify tags of people was the first place i was hitting a major problem
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KevinMarks__
given the way aaron sneaked images posts in with data urls, html posts have a loegs
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KevinMarks__
s/a loegs/legs/
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Loqi
KevinMarks__ meant to say: given the way aaron sneaked images posts in with data urls, html posts have legs
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: you're not advocating for JSON, you're advocating for complex hierarchical POSTs
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tantek
that's much worse
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KevinMarks__
why can't you post the tags of people as marked-up HTML
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tantek
that's not a syntax issue
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KevinMarks__
thats the atompub rathole
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tantek
one of many
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: I thought we solved people tagging
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, there are no other arguements you can make, json and form encodings are just encodings, you can always serialize, its just how complex you want to be
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: by "solved" we ignored locations within photos
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: no we *solved* /person-tags as specified
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tantek
they're not dependent on area tags
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tantek
so saying "ignored" is misframing
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tantek
also "locations within photos" is ambiguous and misleading - makes it sound like geo locations
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aaronpk
oh i thought that's what you were talking about
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Loqi
hehe
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ben_thatmustbeme
"x and y offset within photos"
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aaronpk
position?
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ben_thatmustbeme
and tantek, we can specify them in MF2... but we are talking about micropub serialization
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KevinMarks__
can't you post them in mf2 in the content of of the micropub?
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ben_thatmustbeme
KevinMarks__: only if you post by html
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tantek
aaronpk: that's what happens when you're a spec person, you see ambiguities in people's IRC :(
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aaronpk
getting people to accept HTML content type posts is a stretch
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tantek
indeed
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tantek
especially since there's more demand for markdown
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ben_thatmustbeme
is of the opinion that micropub should specify body encoding
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tantek
is makerbase abusing the indieweb hashtag?
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tantek
there's nothing indieweb about makerbase, it's just another silo
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tantek
why do independents keep building more silos?
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tantek
because they don't know how to build anything else?
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aaronpk
it's easier to build a silo
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tantek
otherwise known as a spam honeypot :P
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tantek
how is this not obvious?
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GWG
tantek: You could invite them to HWC
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tantek
GWG, who is "them"? name names
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KevinMarks__
'more demand for markdown' ? from whom?
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GWG
tantek: The Maker base people.
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tantek
GWG, those aren't names of people
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tantek
KevinMarks: from following #indiewebcamp during the weekend and IWC Düsseldorf
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ben_thatmustbeme
so the way we are doing tagging on a post thus far has been category[]='https://www.domain.com' for example. you would have to go on to do category['https://www.domain.com']['shape']='circle' and same for position. or you post each area as an object? which seems messy as hell
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: we already decided that we need to go back to the drawing board for /area-tags
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tantek
I'm not sure why you're posting that as a strawman
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: the way to come up with micropub requests is to look at the microformat markup and work backwards
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aaronpk
not make stuff up
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tantek
yes that ^^^
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tantek
aaronpk: please capture that in a "Methodology" or something section in /micropub
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KevinMarks__
given that aaronpk just made an editor that will let me post complex formatting via micropub
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GWG
tantek: According to the site, it is a project of ThinkUp LLC.
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KevinMarks__
extending that to let you insert a tagged image seems doable
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ben_thatmustbeme
KevinMarks__: which one?
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ben_thatmustbeme
needs to check quill again
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tantek
GWG, we've invited Anil and Gina repeatedly to IWC NYC - Jeremy Zilar even made badges/pins for them - no shows - and mostly no responses
killerog joined the channel
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tantek
GWG, you're welcome to reach out to them individually on Twitter and invite them to HWC
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ben_thatmustbeme
GWG, tantek very sad. that
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KevinMarks__
the 'insert' thingy could add other rich types beyond image and video
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aaronpk
I am thinking a way to specify html vs plaintext content for micropub requests would be useful... similar to how microformats assumes all values are plaintext except for e-* which gets pulled out as html and value
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GWG
tantek: I'm still annoyed at last week's This Week in Google show.
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KevinMarks__
I should go on netx week and heckle
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GWG
I should stop watching Internet tech punditry sometimes
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: has been request for markdown too
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ben_thatmustbeme
prefixing for various languages could be useful
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ben_thatmustbeme
content / md-content / e-content ?
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GWG
KevinMarks__: You are the talking head who adds s counterpoint to the pro silo view
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aaronpk
wow blogged accepted that? that's amazing
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KevinMarks__
and known too
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KevinMarks__
gina was pushing back on writing in medium too
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KevinMarks__
blogger has always been pretty good at accepting arbitrary html
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KevinMarks__
wordpress is much fussier
bengo joined the channel
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tantek
aaronpk - interesting plain text vs. html distinction, also based on microformats p-* vs. e-*
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tantek
that's a sensible concept to re-use
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: no need for md-* - as md is *supposed* to be just an enhancement of plain text
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GWG
I'm frustrated with WordPress this week
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tantek
any markdown that's NOT just an enhancement of plain text violates MD design principles and should be rejected
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek: as to why i was going back to the area-tags issue, i don't think the mf2 markup makes sense, we only had a problem with it when we got to mp serialization
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tantek
is that a podcast?
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gRegorLove
Makerbase is a silo, but the indieweb hashtags I've seen here have been people submitting their projects to the Makerbase directory. That one above looks correct since the person is just submitting their own site http://wiobyrne.com/
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: huh?
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tantek
"don't think" … " had a problem" ?!?
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GWG
Is what a podcast?
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tantek
This Week in WordPress
bengo joined the channel
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gRegorLove
kylewm submitted some of his indieweb projects iirc
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tantek
gRegorLove: it will become spammers submitting their spam
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tantek
useless
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ben_thatmustbeme
s/don't think/think/
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: tantek: as to why i was going back to the area-tags issue, i think the mf2 markup makes sense, we only had a problem with it when we got to mp serialization
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tantek
both Anil and Gina should know better than that
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tantek
do know better than that
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GWG
tantek: No, but there is a WordPress Weekly
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@jkphl
Thanks to all involved making my last 4 days @indiewebcamp + @btconf that much of a blast. It was a pleasure spending time with you! <3
(twitter.com/_/status/598199884513222656)
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gRegorLove
Wasn't arguing Makerbase is useful; I see what you mean now, though.
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Micropub (+310) "/* Syntax */"
(view diff)
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: I'm not so sure about the mf2 markup for area tags
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tantek
it's workable, but not great anyway
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KevinMarks__
but md is also a superset of HTML
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tantek
lololol
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Vendan
what?
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ben_thatmustbeme
KevinMarks__: btw, i have had a MP client that can post html for a while https://ben.thatmustbe.me/new&type=article
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tantek
KevinMarks: that makes no sense
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ben_thatmustbeme
i post articles as html
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Vendan
might as well just say text is a superset of html
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GWG
I'm frustrated with not being able to get microformat change in Wordpress
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tantek
Vendan++ for properly reductio ad absurdum disproving KevinMarks's assertion.
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Loqi
Vendan has 5 karma
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Vendan
big words, me no read
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KevinMarks__
you're allowed to put html in markdown to do things markdown can't do
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KevinMarks__
so markdown can contain html
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Vendan
you are also allowed to put html tags into text...
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tantek
Kevinmarks - that just means markdown is *ignoring* HTML - it doesn't mean HTML is part of markdown.
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tantek
and using markdown that way violates the markdown design principles
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tantek
thus in spirit is NOT markdown :P
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KevinMarks__
if I put plaintext through auto_link, am I violating it's p- ness
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Vendan
also, I wouldn't count on that kinda behaviour, standard setup on golang routes the output through a sanitization so tight you can't do anything that you couldn't do in MD itself
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tantek
KevinMarks: not at all - auto_link is intended to work on plain text
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tantek
Vendan - that's an even better point
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tantek.com
edited /podcast (+36) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ subheads for people"
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gregorlove.com
created /Makerba.se (+183) "stub"
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bengo joined the channel
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tantek
what is wavelist?
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tantek.com
edited /podcast (+146) "Other Examples / Wavelist"
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tantek
Wavelist is a collection of podcast episodes curated into playlists by individuals. http://wavelist.xyz/
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loqi.me
created /Wavelist (+131) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-12/line/1431457603524 and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /podcast (-19) "/* Other Examples */ linky"
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tantek.com
edited /Wavelist (+34) "see also, linky"
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tantek
!tell benwerd, erinjo feel free to expand on https://indiewebcamp.com/Wavelist !
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
benwerd: tantek left you a message 12 seconds ago: feel free to expand on https://indiewebcamp.com/Wavelist ! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-12/line/1431457801882
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loqi.me
created /Ben_and_Erins_new_project (+21) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
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snarfed
got an interesting (to me at least) indieweb use case
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Loqi
snarfed: kylewm left you a message on 5/10 at 6:25pm: bridgy needs but doesn't have user_events permissions scope :( http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-10/line/1431307535502
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Loqi
snarfed: kylewm left you a message on 5/10 at 10:40pm: well I submitted user_events and user_photos ... fingers crossed http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-10/line/1431322800486
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snarfed
a friend asked me to delete a few bridgy-backfed comments on snarfed.org
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snarfed
i'd like to hide them instead of deleting them altogether
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snarfed
nothing too special there…wordpress just doesn't support it. i can trash or spam or unapprove them, but i can't mark them private like i can with posts
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snarfed
maybe "there's a plugin for that" :P
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tantek
A makes public comment on B's public post on silo C. B's site copies comment to their own site. A wants copy of comment removed (or hidden)
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tantek
is that about right?
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tantek
snarfed, what if you edit the contents of the comment to say "see original on: (link to original comment wherever it was made) "
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snarfed
(arguably the silo part of the user story is unnecessary)
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tantek
pretty sure WP allows admins to edit comments
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snarfed
tantek: not a bad idea. and yes wp does. i expect he'll delete the silo copies too though
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tantek
snarfed: silo part is necessary because the problem is the copy you make *to your own site*
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tantek
it's necessary to make it clear stuff is happening on/of copies on multiple sites
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tantek
also - deletion of the original comment is an existing use-case
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snarfed
but most server implementations store a copy of indie replies etc too
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snarfed
yup, re existing use case, you beat me to it
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snarfed
(had that half typed :P)
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snarfed
maybe the only interesting question is etiquette: whether comment recipients should hide or delete their own copy
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tantek
can bridgy send 410s for such cases?
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snarfed
i think it's a filed FR
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snarfed
finding
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tantek
agreed re: etiquette
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snarfed
#9, single digit! (only exciting to me and kylewm :P)
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snarfed
wm spec says if the source deletes their mention and re-wms you, you should delete your copy too: https://github.com/converspace/webmention/blob/master/README.md#updating-existing-webmentions
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tantek
snarfed: see /webmention :P
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tantek
github spec is out of date because it fell victim to the non-community bottleneck problem
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tantek
this is why github kinda sucks for open specs :P
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snarfed
agreed, you took the words out of my mouth
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snarfed
the wm spec duplication/skew is definitely disappointing
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tantek
well it proves the point about github
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tantek
don't use it for specs
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tantek.com
edited /Webmention (+16) "/* Should webmentions be sent for removals */ main deleted"
(view diff)
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snarfed
sure, agreed re github for specs. it'd just also be nice to try to solve this specific instance
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snarfed
seems like delete vs hide policy is an open question
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snarfed
pro hide: some recipients will want to own their responses permanently
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snarfed
pro delete: some sources will want to be able to fully delete their own posts and all copies
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snarfed
not entirely realistic - information wants to be free, etc - but still a clear desire sometimes
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snarfed
e.g. silos sometimes try to make promises around how fast and how completely they delete your data when you ask
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: i think delete vs hide can be left to individual implementations
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: in general, i agree. in this case though, there are two stakeholders, the sender and the receiver
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snarfed
the interesting question arises when they disagree
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KartikPrabhu
again isn't that best left up to the 2 parties involved?
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KartikPrabhu
I mean the webmention spec can't recommend a particular way to resolve the conflict :P
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snarfed
definitely! that's why i keep using the words "etiquette" and "policy"
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snarfed
it's not a technical problem, so the spec shouldn't try to solve it, but we as a community can definitely come up with guidelines/best practices
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tantek
we can document the choices and explain reasons for each, leaving it up to individuals
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kylewm
snarfed: I'm sorry I don't know this, does Bridgy already send a 410 for a deleted comment?
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snarfed
kylewm: no, i don't think so
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snarfed
i believe it detects deletes as well as changes at https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/tasks.py#L257 , and resends wms for them
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snarfed
but i think the mf2 handlers just pass through the silo's 400 or 404 or whatever for an API call for a deleted response
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snarfed
i'd happily merge a PR that returns 410 instead when we can reliably detect deletes
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KevinMarks__
reads scrollback
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KevinMarks__
re http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-12/line/1431446251589 kylewm you don't have to iterate over the whole hash -you lookup "feed" in rels then iterate over those urls in rel-urls
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KevinMarks__
data = mf2py.parse(url='https://ben.thatmustbe.me/'); [url for url in data['rels']['feed'] if data['rel-urls'].get(url,{}).get('type','')=="text/html"]
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kylewm
gotcha, yeah that would work too
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ben_thatmustbeme
dang, ruby mf2 parser hasn't been touched in a year
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kylewm
who even wrote that ruby parser?
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ben_thatmustbeme
names i don't recognize other than Shane Becker
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kylewm
jlsuttles too
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ben_thatmustbeme
never spoken to jlsuttles, sooooo
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kylewm
she was at pdx last year
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Lancey
hello
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ben_thatmustbeme
hello Lancey
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Lancey
what's good everyone?
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm almost heading home... thats good
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Lancey
i'll say
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kylewm
what brings you here Lancey?
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Lancey
not much, i saw the website and have just been working on a little blog
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gRegorLove
Welcome, Lancey
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Lancey
thank you
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kylewm
have you been able to log into the wiki already?
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Lancey
kylewm, yes i have!
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kylewm
nice!
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Lancey
i don't have anything on my user page though
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kylewm
you can add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people too when you have a chance :)
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Lancey
sweet, thanks!
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Lancey
the wiki's running a bit slow for me so that'll take a bit
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KevinMarks__
vote links do seem like a fit for vouch lists
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gRegorLove
What are vote links?
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lancey.space
edited /IRC_People (+88) "/* Nicknames */ Added myself (Lancey)"
(view diff)
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KevinMarks__
vote links are http://microformats.org/wiki/votelinks an old proposal for indicating agreement and disagreement with a linked url
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loqi.me
created /vote_links (+156) "prompted by gRegorLove https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-12/line/1431466760825 and dfn added by KevinMarks__"
(view diff)
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Vendan
Hey, Lancey, what are you using for your blog?
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Lancey
i'm using django and building from there
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Lancey
so i guess django then
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Vendan
heh, cool.
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gRegorLove
Nice URL and pixel art.
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Vendan
I'm building one on top of golang myself
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Lancey
oh rad
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Lancey
i gotta learn golang
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Lancey
i hopped on the rust train but that stopped being exciting haha
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Lancey
gRegorLove, thanks!
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gRegorLove
KartikPrabhu: You're running Django, right?
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KartikPrabhu
I'm not! weird
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gRegorLove
Yeah, thought that was odd. Also thought the list there was longer
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Lancey
i think i'll wait a bit before i add myself
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KartikPrabhu
lot of python people but not Django
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Lancey
don't even have webmentions working
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KartikPrabhu
Lancey: if you can log into the wiki then definitely add yourself :)
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Lancey
i saw we had some recommended frameworks for blogs but i don't think i saw anything django based
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KartikPrabhu
Lancey: my site code is not open yet. its pretty messy
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KartikPrabhu
I am working towards it
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Lancey
maybe if there were more mf2 compatible blog platforms written in django
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Lancey
mine's awful too, don't worry
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gRegorLove
That's no problem, Lancey. Baby steps. :) Tantek doesn't accept webmentions yet either.
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KevinMarks__
the comments about sample code exampels being microblogs was interesting
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KevinMarks__
(in #social earlier)
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KevinMarks__
wodner if finding them and sending mf2-adding pull requests would be worth the effort
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gRegorLove
Huh. Django doesn't really have a section on /projects either.
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gRegorLove
Guess it's "under construction" though I don't know the latest status of that.
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Lancey
django?
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gRegorLove
No, sorry. The /projects page on the IWC wiki
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Lancey
bundle uses django
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kartikprabhu.com
edited /Django (+130) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ added me"
(view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
Lancey: yup! added myself and /Bundle on /Django
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kartikprabhu.com
edited /Bundle (+4) "/* Tools Used */ linky Django page"
(view diff)
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lancey.space
edited /Django (+119) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Added my page"
(view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
what is file storage?
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Loqi
File Storage is the practice of storing main (primary) site content in flat files in a filesystem https://indiewebcamp.com/file-storage
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kartikprabhu.com
edited /Bundle (+80) "/* Working On */ add Pullback"
(view diff)
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Vendan
heh, my blog uses a key/value datastore for primary datastorage
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kartikprabhu.com
edited /Bundle (+135) "/* Working On */ add fragmentioner. reorder by priority"
(view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
Vendan: in flat files or database?
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Vendan
in process "database"
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KartikPrabhu
Vendan: hmmm can one open the files in a text-editor/viewer and inspect them directly?
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KartikPrabhu
hmm then it is a /database i guess
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Vendan
I'm considering going flat file, but bolt does have several features that I do like
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KevinMarks__
ooh, firefox landed srcset support
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Vendan
can probably replicate most of them with flat files though, so that's one thing
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KevinMarks__
and on mobile too
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Vendan
ugh, I get the heebie-jeebies when I see someone running gogs
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KevinMarks__
my crazy 4x oversampled icons work
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Vendan
KartikPrabhu, one of the differences, imho, is that there isn't a lot of what is considered "DBA tax"
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KartikPrabhu
what is database tax?
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KartikPrabhu
Vendan: oh you mean file storage does not have DBA tax or that this one you are using doesn't?
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Vendan
the one I'm using has very minimal DBA tax
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KevinMarks__
Vendan: did you see camlistore?
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Vendan
basically import/export and backup
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Vendan
interesting, though it took a bit too long to get to an actual description of what it is
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KevinMarks__
Brad is better at coding than docs, yes.
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Vendan
and it immediately failed 2 of my current criteria, though they are low and medium priority
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Vendan
big one is really "in-process, no extra server software required"
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KevinMarks__
ah, right
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KevinMarks__
that is a different goal yes
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Vendan
I would prefer single file with entire db in it, but I'm ok with the idea of "faking" that by supporting import/export as archives
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Vendan
^ main reason I don't use file-storage as it stands, but not really a big issue
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KevinMarks__
tanteks sharding model might be worth a look
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Vendan
my goal is 2~3 files to upload and get it running about anywhere, including on shared hosting
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Vendan
that's a little... odd
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@ChrisAldrich
Just noticed via @benborges_ that @dshanske has a semantic markup plugin for @WordPress under way! https://github.com/dshanske/wp-semantics #IndieWebCamp
(twitter.com/_/status/598254100766154752)
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tantek_
Those are the old docs. See /Falcon for the latest.
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@_Ryan_Tharp
RT @LukasRosenstock: I wrote a short blog post about my experience of attending #IndieWebCampGermany2015, check it out: http://t.co/i8uQQLx…
(twitter.com/_/status/598255466162978817)
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raucao
kylewm: one question: is http://indiewebcamp.com/posse-post-discovery#Set_up_your_site correct in that it can only be an h-feed, but not rss or atom?
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raucao
it looks like known is missing h-feed by default
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tantek
h-feed isn't strictly necessary for common/minimal use-cases
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raucao
not that it's hard to add, just making sure i can't use the default theme/layout
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tantek
raucao: the key is h-entry for each post
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raucao
tantek: the key?
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raucao
oh i see
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tantek
the important part
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raucao
so there is no enclosing h-feed
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raucao
as long as the document has h-entries somewhere
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tantek
it's not strictly needed unless you want to give the h-feed its own name from the page its own
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tantek
s/its own/its on
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: it's not strictly needed unless you want to give the h-feed its on name from the page its on
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raucao
tantek: alright, thanks!
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tantek.com
edited /posse-post-discovery (+166) "/* Set up your site */ note h-entry is key, h-feed is optional, linky, code markup"
(view diff)
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tantek
kylewm: ^^^ for your review
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kylewm
that's great, tantek
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raucao
so, twitter links to https://sebastian.kip.pe which has "<link rel="feed" type="text/html" title="updates.kip.pe" href="https://updates.kip.pe/content/all"/>" and that url has h-entry items, but bridgy says no post links found for my test fav: https://www.brid.gy/twitter/skddc (cc kylewm)
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kylewm
looking
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raucao
cool, thx
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tantek
Vendan: I'm back at a keyboard if you had any questions about Falcon's flat file storage format.
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Vendan
not particularly
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Vendan
not really interested in parsing html to get the data to render html
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tantek
it was the easiest storage format for me to personally edit / verify by hand
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tantek
so I built from there
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tantek
figuring hand inspectability / editability was paramount for data quality / repairing data corruption etc.
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tantek
as opposed to random CSV, or JSON or shudder XML
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KevinMarks__
I thought it was XML, so you could use path queries - did that change?
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tantek
others choose markdown instead, yet I don't how you would put / identify multiple markdown posts into a single file
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tantek
and one post per file = perf problems as kylewm found out
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Vendan
possibly, but imho, I'd rather optimize for the main use case and go from there
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tantek
Vendan: I optimized for data quality / reliability over the long run
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Vendan
heh, depends on your language, really
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tantek
which to me means human inspectability / fixability
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Vendan
I can do single file per post with amazing levels of performance
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tantek
has inspected far too many file formats in byte editors :/
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tantek
interesting
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tantek
I think aaronpk does too - somehow
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Vendan
cause I can just cache stuff into memory and keep it there
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kylewm
raucao: any clue why it would be going to remotestorage.io?
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kylewm
raucao: did you previously redirect to remotestorage.io or something?
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tantek
KevinMarks: my HTML5 is well-formed XML but it's not "proper XML" which has all kinds of assumptions of using custom tags and attributes
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tantek
what is proper XML?
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raucao
kylewm: what's going to remotestorage.io?
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Vendan
having a single persistent server handling all requests makes it easier
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tantek
proper XML is when you use XML as it was intended, that is, you make up your own very specific tag names and attributes for a complete one-off bespoke format that no one else can understand or interoperate with.
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loqi.me
created /proper_XML (+238) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-05-12/line/1431472980923 and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
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Vendan
I love the sass in that dfn
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kylewm
raucao: bridgy starts posse-post-discovery, and instead of fetching your updates.kipp.pe page, it fetches remotestorage.io ... i'm wondering if bridgy had an old redirect still cached or something
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tantek
did IndieWeb really make it to the cover of a German magazine in bold ALLCAPS? https://twitter.com/adactio/status/598238450853224448
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raucao
kylewm: maybe an sni issue?
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raucao
for updates. it doesn't make a lot of sense
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kylewm
what about for sebastian.kip.pe?
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raucao
that's on the same ip as remotestorage.io using sni for tls
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kylewm
interesting!
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raucao
kylewm: i have no idea how it would even know of the domain remotestorage.io though
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raucao
weird
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raucao
checking logs...
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kylewm
I'm out of my depth with SNI/TLS stuff
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kylewm
but snarfed might know more
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raucao
might be an outdated curl or sth. what http client is brid.gy using?
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kylewm
it's on google appengine, they use their own urlfetch thing
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raucao
hmm, that should work
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raucao
sni is very common these days. it's the only way for different domains to use tls on the same ip
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kylewm
raucao: did you log into bridgy directly, or did you authorize via https://updates.kip.pe/account/bridgy/
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raucao
oh, i re-authed directly on bridy
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raucao
right
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kylewm
sorry I think nevermind
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kylewm
i was mistake
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KartikPrabhu
KevinMarks__: tantek might do a js;dr on that one :P
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Vendan
well, that's a js;can't read for me
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Vendan
shows nothing but a little bit of ui that looks like a map renderer
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GWG
Anyone know who Chris Aldrich is and why he is following my WordPress microformats stuff with interest?
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raucao
kylewm: i can't find anything that looks like an app engine UA in my logs
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KevinMarks__
needs webgl, so firefox or chrome
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GWG
I'd like to engage.
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tantek
GWG, is he in NYC? Invite him out to HWC!
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tantek
@ reply him on Twitter
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kylewm
raucao: how about UA='Bridgy (http://brid.gy/about)'
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raucao
just a bunch of irc clients and browsers in the last 2 hours
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kylewm
it's possible bridgy fakes the user agent to look like a browser, but i cna't find it rn
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raucao
got bridgy
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raucao
hmm, all yesterday morning
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raucao
only 5
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GWG
It says LA on his Twitter profile
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raucao
yesterday means may 12 for me
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GWG
I'm horrible with names
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tantek
Vendan - I had to load it in FF, with a lot of scripts. Safari/Webkit didn't work for me (re: that matrix.yaml thing)
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Vendan
I tried in what is basically stock FF and it ground my computer to a halt till I killed it
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raucao
kylewm: so maybe it cached that there wasn't any feed linked yesterday?
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raucao
that would explain it. not sure how remotestorage.io fits in that story
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KevinMarks__
right, WebGL is in chrome/ff not safari afaik
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KevinMarks__
crashes firefox on android
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raucao
KevinMarks__: i think ios 8 introduced webgl
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kylewm
raucao: how recently did you add rel=feed?
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raucao
kylewm: just a couple of hours ago
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