#indiewebcamp 2015-04-19

2015-04-19 UTC
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acegiak
kylewm: did you just get an update webmention from mr on https://kylewm.com/2015/04/whoever-coded-this-facebook-feature-i-hope-they-died ?
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GWG
Hello, acegiak
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acegiak
kylewm: i just want to know cause my plugin now SHOULD be sending update webmentions when i approve comments
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acegiak
GWG hi!
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GWG
acegiak: Which plugin is that?
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KevinMarks__
Did you WordPress fans see feverdream?
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GWG
KevinMarks__: It's for WordPress.com. We're WordPress.org
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acegiak
what is feverdream?
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Loqi
Feverdream is the codename of an in-development Micropub endpoint for hosted blogs like Tumblr, WordPress.com, and Blogger https://indiewebcamp.com/Feverdream
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KevinMarks__
So the challenge of getting mf2 in is still there
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GWG
KevinMarks__: The first step is to get it into WordPress core.
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GWG
Then it will flow downward. MF1 is all over the place because of that
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KevinMarks__
Definitely
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KevinMarks__
Also in blogger
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KevinMarks__
Thinking about feverdream - if we can auth against tumblr, blogger, and wp.com,they could be indieauth targets too
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tantek
KevinMarks: do they have rel=me supporting "Web Site" fields you can use to link back to your personal site?
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GWG
wp.com wouldn't have plugins per se, but it would have core...so it would have something that could work for rel=me.
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kylewm
acegiak: I got a webmention from you 45 minutes ago, so yes i think so
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kylewm
KevinMarks__: feverdream could also implement its own authorization_endpoint that would auth with wordpress.com, etc. directly
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tantek
GWG - the core WP has had rel=me links since v1.5
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tantek
they might be buried under layers of UI by now, but they should still be there
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GWG
tantek: Either way, doing rel=me is relatively easy without any extension.
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tantek.com
edited /rel-me (+89) "add stub How to on WordPress"
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tantek
GWG, hmm - if it is "relatively easy", could you document it here? https://indiewebcamp.com/rel-me#How_to_on_WordPress
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david.shanske.com
edited /rel-me (+263) "/* How to on WordPress */"
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aaronpk
KevinMarks__: did you ever talk to that guy about transferring mynameisme.org?
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KevinMarks__
Yes, she said she was following the hover process, but she's travelling
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@GlobalRevLive
keep in mind services like twitter are still corporate info silos. consider IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/ for alternatives @taygogo
(twitter.com/_/status/589610872756162560)
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@t_post7
RT @GlobalRevLive: keep in mind services like twitter are still corporate info silos. consider IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/ for alt…
(twitter.com/_/status/589611081322008576)
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@taygogo
RT @GlobalRevLive: keep in mind services like twitter are still corporate info silos. consider IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/ for alt…
(twitter.com/_/status/589611127887122432)
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@crimsonboudoir
RT @GlobalRevLive: keep in mind services like twitter are still corporate info silos. consider IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/ for alt…
(twitter.com/_/status/589614436001980417)
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@Nart0925
RT @GlobalRevLive: keep in mind services like twitter are still corporate info silos. consider IndieWebCamp https://indiewebcamp.com/ for alt…
(twitter.com/_/status/589619761056649216)
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bret
!tell squeakytoy hackers
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG
I need to figure out how to make this post UI work better. I need ideas
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indie-visitor
vivek pathak
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indie-visitor
hi everyone i need help to verify my wordpress self hosted blog
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tantek
GWG ^^^
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tantek
aaronpk, others, what would you think of doing IWC 2015 in July?
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tantek
I realize Edinburgh is then too
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tantek
but maybe like 2 weeks beforehand?
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tantek.com
edited /2015/ (-2) "note Ediburgh dates determined"
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tantek.com
edited /2015 (+458) "/* Candidate Dates */ add a few July dates"
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tantek
!tell aaronpk, gRegorLove I added July candidate dates for IWC 2015 - please take a look at add your availability! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015#Candidate_Dates
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG
Tantek, I missed the WordPress person, darn
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tantek
hopefully they'll be back
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GWG
I can only do one trip, but PDX might be doable over EDI
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tantek.com
edited /2015/ (+34) "note Germany and Edinburgh are planned, re-arrange a bit"
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tantek.com
edited /next-iwc (-2) "Germany is next!"
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tantek.com
edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+4) "Düsseldorf"
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GWG
Trying to figure out parsing still. I think I got open graph meta tags, still working on mf2. What other way do people extract author name and such?
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GWG
I want to use mf2 as the primary, but too many sites don't have microformats. Especially news sites, which is often what I bookmark
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tantek
GWG, this is why I asked you what presentation are you going for
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tantek
if you can describe that in pieces (rather than just saying "basic" or "simple") then we can figure out where to get the data from
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tantek
e.g. "What other way do people extract author name?" that's what the /authorship algorithm solves for you
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GWG
Tantek, right now I am exploring the scenario of no hcard. I tried starting microformats down, but I switched to meta tags up.
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tantek
GWG - no that's not "right", that's plumbing-centric explorations
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tantek
I'm trying to up level it a bit, and go back to describing what presentation you are building for.
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GWG
It isn't right, I agree
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tantek
what do you want it to look like on your site?
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tantek
before you can figure out plumbing answers, you need to answer that
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GWG
I am currently displaying using a name, publication, author name /picture and summary
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GWG
I have the display. Because I built it based on manual entry
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GWG
So, to use an analogy I have my sink, I want to hook up the hot water line
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tantek
can you write-up briefly what you just described as displaying in a new section here? https://indiewebcamp.com/link-preview#brainstorming
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GWG
Right now I am hauling water in a bucket from the well
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GWG
Tantek, yes.
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tantek
manual vs. (semi)automatic - I get that
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tantek
part of the goal here is to figure out what would be the minimum viable design that would work for you
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tantek
and then to build up from there
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tantek
e.g. as a strawman example: the simplest link preview is just the URL, or the URL plus <title> attribute
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GWG
Which is where I started
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tantek
link-preview display is similar in this respect to reply-context display, e.g. https://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#Levels
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GWG
Tantek, I built them using the same design
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tantek
they have some overlap but they are quite different
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tantek
just as a reply is different from a mention
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tantek
GWG, note how much documentation / thinking is captured in https://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#Levels - let's capture similar things at https://indiewebcamp.com/link-preview#brainstorming
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GWG
Tantek, I am just noticing that many sites don't seem to identify the author name on articles in a clear manner. I wonder why.
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tantek
because they care less about recognizing the author
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GWG
Disappointing
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tantek
another place to check, ironically, is to see if there is a /feedfile e.g. RSS/Atom for the current page which may actually have explicit author markup because their backend dev went to the trouble
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tantek
that is, as a fallback, for sites that don't otherwise identify the author
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tantek
(or sometimes even the date published!)
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voxpelli
GWG: looking at what other sites do, they rarely identify the author in their link-previews, right?
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tantek
voxpelli: excellent point
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voxpelli
And looking at what Google did when they promoted rel-author – they said to either use rel-author to identify a person or rel-publisher to identify a business/publication
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voxpelli
Facebook has a way to identify a "publisher" as well, a FB Page, but that data is as far as I know fully proprietary and impossible for anyone outside Facebook to make sense of
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voxpelli
GWG: http://embed.ly/ can perhaps be a good inspiration – they focus on making link previews for everything
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voxpelli
they even have a jQuery-script if one wants to easily start out with their data before pulling down ones own: http://embedly.github.io/embedly-jquery/
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voxpelli
(nice touch from Embed.ly – they seems to extract a brand color from the favicon and use that to "brand" the embed)
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tantek
that's pretty neat
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GWG
voxpelli: That is what made me start looking at it. Sometimes, I am not articulating my thoughts effectively.
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GWG
As someone who studied Knowledge Organization, this bothers me.
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voxpelli
GWG: I agree with you that it's far too few sites that identifies authorship and even fewer that actually has a proper way to verify authorship
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voxpelli
To me there's to steps to it: 1. Identify the author, possibly through rel-author, and then 2. Verify that the linked to profile is actually the correct one, by somehow using rel-me
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voxpelli
Stumbled upon this old video from Google where they talked a bit about that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgFb6Y-UJUI&list=FLUB3JD26qjifpAnXzn-MdRQ&index=1
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voxpelli
Problem is that I can post a lot of posts on my site, claiming that someone else has written them, and while that may not be a critical problem for link-previews, it certainly is in the grander scheme of things where it should really tie into the rel-me-auth ideas
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GWG
voxpelli: Let's say I write for multiple sites, I may want authorship to link to me. But unless I cross-post, I can't necessarily have that. And there is no cross-post verification procedure.
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voxpelli
It's a tricky thing to solve – ideally all identities should be linked together and the articles should be able to properly be linked in to that
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GWG
voxpelli: Not prepared to solve it today. But I wanted to think about it a bit as I work on webactions, my current top project. Which will involve adapting some of your code as well at some point.
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tantek
voxpelli: perhaps that's were we can show an indieweb version of "verified" - for authors / authorship that is verified by rel-me-auth etc.
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voxpelli
tantek: yep – I'm thinking: article -> profile-on-article-site <-> indieweb-profile
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tantek
sounds like a good start - want to write it up as a brainstorm?
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tantek
what is verified?
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voxpelli
what is identity?
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Loqi
A personal domain is a domain name that you personally own, control, and use to represent yourself on the internet https://indiewebcamp.com/identity
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voxpelli
Loqi beats the wiki-search :P
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Loqi
grins profusely
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GWG
Ooops...IRC wasn't advancing.
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GWG
Missed stuff
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kodfabrik.se
created /social_graph (+1585) "Created page with "{{stub}} The '''<dfn>social graph</dfn>''' is a graph that indexes all the profiles and identities and the relations in-between them. Was popularized by Google's now defunct Soc...""
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voxpelli
what is social graph?
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Loqi
The social graph is a graph that indexes all the profiles and identities and the relations in-between them https://indiewebcamp.com/social_graph
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voxpelli
Nice :)
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aaronpk
rhiaro: heads up, you may notice some (hopefuly good) changes in teacup next time you use it!
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 20 minutes ago: I added July candidate dates for IWC 2015 - please take a look at add your availability! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015#Candidate_Dates http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-19/line/1429462403859
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aaronparecki.com
edited /2015 (+270) "/* Candidate Dates */"
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kodfabrik.se
edited /social_graph (+120) "Documented the origin of relspider"
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voxpelli
!tell KevinMarks, glennjones I added a wiki page about the social graph, could you check and extend? https://indiewebcamp.com/social_graph
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
aaronpk: great to hear that 7/11-12 works for your
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tantek
s/your/you
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: aaronpk: great to hear that 7/11-12 works for you
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kodfabrik.se
edited /social_graph (+15) "Added more visible link to verified page"
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kodfabrik.se
edited /social_graph (+4) "/* Implementations */ Wiki-styling !== Markdown"
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tantek.com
edited /verified (+361) "Twitter"
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tantek.com
edited /verified (+24) "linky"
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tantek.com
edited /verified (-2) "-="
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tantek.com
edited /Twitter (+40) "feature / verified"
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kylewm
so I added Subscription tagging to woodwind, so you can organize your feeds (like I wanted one for just podcasts)
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kylewm
I'm wondering if it makes sense to add a "stream" tag that everything would have by default
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kylewm
and then the primary view would be of subscriptions tagged "stream"
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aaronpk
that sounds like what I did with "channels"
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voxpelli
kylewm: probably better to have an option of excluding tags from the stream
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tantek
or "newsfeed" :P
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voxpelli
(not considering that excluding stuff based on tags often is much harder than including stuff based on tags – at least when using SQL and such)
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kylewm
voxpelli: ah i like that, that might be easier to manage
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kylewm
tantek: newsfeed is a better name :)
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tantek
anyone else have opinions about July 11-12th for IndieWebCamp 2015? especiall you Portland folks, bret, dietrich?
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GWG
I have one
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GWG
PDX or EDI?
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tantek
what is EDI?
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GWG
One is Scotland...the other I'd get to see the famous PDX carpet
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GWG
EDI is the airport code for Edinburgh, Scotland
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loqi.me
created /EDI (+74) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-19/line/1429478212184 and dfn added by GWG"
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GWG
If you could only visit one Indiewebcamp this July...
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tantek
!tell benwerd what do you think of IWC 2015 July 11-12 in Portland? Would you be able to make that?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG
I always abbreviate by three-letter airport codes
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tantek
and TLAs ending in I looking like something something Institute
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tantek
aaronpk: are there any festivals or any other big / special events happening in Portland near July 11-12?
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dietrich
tantek bret I'll be one day back from a long trip to asia, so i'm a dice roll.
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aaronpk
nothing on calagator
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tantek
cool - how's the prospect of venue? ESRIPDX work?
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aaronpk
yeah we should be able to do it there again
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tantek
dietrich - glad to hear you'll be back, understandable about the dice roll. Hopefully we can talk you into stopping by
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dietrich
yeah i just put in the calendar, def will try!
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tantek
not a problem for me - however it will be crowded in town
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tantek
so if we're doing 7/11-12 we should probably lock it down and get folks a heads-up that are traveling
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aaronpk
how big is WDS?
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tantek
2013 was 2000, 2012 was 1000, 2011 was 500
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tantek
maybe 2000-3000 in 2015?
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aaronpk
well that's not huge as far as capacity of portland goes, but i'd be more worried about people who want to go to that not being able to go to IWC
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tantek
it lost me when it got too big (2000+)
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tantek
we could ask people that came last year to IWC to see if they're doing WDS
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GWG
It sounds scary.
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tantek.com
edited /social_graph (+76) "tweak definition to be more noun-sounding definition, a instead of the, one site, web, or in-person"
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@benwerd
Talk of data ownership on #twit. #indieweb is a great solution: publish on your own space, then share to the cloud.
(twitter.com/_/status/589920196141264896)
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@jmcclurken
RT @benwerd: Talk of data ownership on #twit. #indieweb is a great solution: publish on your own space, then share to the cloud.
(twitter.com/_/status/589920309098192896)
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loqi.me
created /Wink (+177) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by GWG"
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tantek.com
edited /Wink (+61) "linky linky, ISO date, criticism section"
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loqi.me
created /Home_automation (+123) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by GWG"
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