#indiewebcamp 2015-04-02

2015-04-02 UTC
benwerd and bengo joined the channel
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tantek
ooh is Bridgy Publish down for FB posts?
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tantek
I'm seeing "Publish is not enabled for your account(s)."
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KevinMarks
do you need to reauth?
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tantek
when I click the link for that it seems to reload and not change anything
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tantek
trying a disable / re-enable toggle
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tantek
I'm wondering if this has to do with what snarfed and kylewm were chatting about this morning
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kylewm
no, unrelated
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tantek
I Enter post URL: into the field, click Preview
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@NZN
Personal Sovereign Design http://iiw.idcommons.net/Personal_Sovereign_Design #iiw #SovereignSourceAuthority #vrm #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/583431790519390208)
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tantek
and in ~1s the spinner turns into the text "Publish is not enabled for your account(s). Please visit https://www.brid.gy/facebook/214611 and sign up!"
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tantek
kylewm: oh? am I the only one seeing this?
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kylewm
this is the first i've heard about it, the error from this morning had to do with comment IDs
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tantek
do you think this is a transient error? something worth filing an issue about? I tried disable Publish / re-enable and that didn't seem to help.
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kylewm
looking
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tantek
in the logs?
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kylewm
yep, in the logs and also checking that "publish" is enabled for your account (it is)
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acegiak
benwerd, did you jump into the gamergate hashtag specifically looking for a fight?
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kylewm
tantek: OK it's not just you, it's basically everybody including me. And now I do think it's related to the stuff from this morning, in a roundabout way
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kylewm
I'll follow up, thanks for reporting!
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acegiak
cause it's a pretty fertile ground if you want to go fishing for bigotted neocons
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benwerd
acegiak: I can neither confirm nor deny that I needed some catharsis
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tantek
acegiak - I figure benwerd is using gamergate as a way to get voluntary testing of Known's block / mute and other social media management features. ;)
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benwerd
I'm actually genuinely interested in how they tick as a group. So very different from the online groups I was a member of when I was a teenager.
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KevinMarks
if you want to test reply-threading, benwerd, there are easier ways than poking the bear
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Loqi
[bridgy] Aaron Parecki replied '@Malcolm_Ocean now it's taken.' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/how-to-push (https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/583448467390898177)
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kylewm
aaronpk: cweiske: so i'm thinking the hub.secret needs to unique per hub (at least)... otherwise someone could set up a hub and just use it to collect your secret key
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kylewm
I think I will just generate one random token per feed
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kylewm
(but if one of you more security-minded people has a better suggestion, I'm all ears)
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kylewm
of course it's 5am in germany
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Loqi
[mention] Chris Aldrich commented 'I'm impressed that @cstanhope has an .html-only #IndieWeb site: http://charles.stanho.pe/ I'll offer help to get him set up with WordPres...' on a post http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress (http://stream.boffosocko.com/2015/im-impressed-that-cstanhope-has-an-html-only-indieweb-site-ill)
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snarfed
tantek_: thanks for the report! fixed, you should be able to publish again
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cweiske
kylewm, yes, one pro subscription is best
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kylewm
cweiske: well, I'm consuming content-ful pings now, and it still takes 2-5 seconds. too bad.
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@RDBinns
Amazon Dash may look like a luxury, but if becomes ubiquitous, do we want it to be proprietary? http://werd.io/2015/introducing-the-indie-dash-button-indieweb-vrm by @benwerd #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/583587514126102528)
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ben_thatmustbeme
good morning #indiewebcamp
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aaronpk
good morning
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aaronpk
kylewm: what kind of content are you receiving from pings from phubb?
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aaronpk
oh hey didn't see you there
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cweiske
I was disconnected
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cweiske
what do you want to know?
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aaronpk
i was thinking about adding fat pings to switchboard, but wasn't sure whether i should do something like reconstruct the HTML from the parsed h-entry, or try to use the original HTML from the h-entry
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cweiske
you don't know if the subscriber supports microformats
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cweiske
or just wants to have the content of the page
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aaronpk
i want to assume the subscriber supports microformats
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aaronpk
but i see the point
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aaronpk
are you sending the entire page then? or parsing out just the diff?
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cweiske
I send the whole page
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aaronpk
ah that makes it easier
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aaronpk
fwiw, it is not at all clear in the spec that sending the page content (or diff) is required
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aaronpk
"Notification: A payload describing how a topic's contents have changed, or the full updated content." https://pubsubhubbub.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/pubsubhubbub-core-0.4.html#anchor2
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aaronpk
keeps pointing back to the problem of the 0.4 spec being super under-specified
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aaronparecki.com
edited /How_to_publish_and_consume_PubSubHubbub (+41) "/* Fat Pings */ note that the full page HTML may be sent as well"
(view diff)
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aaronpk
in other news, this is now a thing: http://pubsubhubbub.club
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tantek
hahaha
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Loqi
awesome
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tantek
!tell snarfed thanks for the bug fix! Bridgy Publish worked for me just now to FB.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk
i wanna make pubsubhubbub.club a planet that collects posts from everyone who publishes to a hub
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tantek
aaronpk: are you thinking of writing a /how-to-hub as well?
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aaronpk
good idea
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tantek
cweiske was noting some of the reasons why he likes to have his own hub
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aaronpk
i made my own because i wasn't happy with the visibility I got from superfeedr
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tantek
bunch of PuSH related stuff here http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-01#t1427926813156 worth wikifying when you have a moment
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cweiske
I made my own because I don't want to rely on others
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tantek
both good reasons worth documenting
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aaronpk
the opaqueness of publishing and subscribing with superfeedr is what made it so hard to actually get going with PuSH
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ben_thatmustbeme
soooo. if everyone runs their own hub... doesn't it make hubs kind of .... pointless?
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cweiske
no. you still get instantness
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: 1) that will never happen, but 2) it's still a good architecture
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: it's similar to the question of running your own server vs shared host etc.
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tantek
or github.io
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cweiske
not really
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cweiske
I thought push was invented to not to poll anymore
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tantek
you run your own server, you get more stats. github.io doesn't give you that.
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cweiske
which hub is used is actually not interesting for that
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ben_thatmustbeme
no, its very different. the point of a hub is to have fan-out, you are using the push spec to send but eliminating the hub
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aaronpk
your site could very well be its own hub
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ben_thatmustbeme
so isn't fan-out still an issue
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cweiske
what is a fan-out?
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tantek
aaronpk: just found this! http://www.rsssearchhub.com/
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aaronpk
tantek: whoa
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tantek
(speaking of "hubs")
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cweiske
ben_thatmustbeme, I'm not eleminating the hub
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ben_thatmustbeme
tantek, now we just need them to get mf2 in there
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cweiske
I implemented one
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ben_thatmustbeme
cweiske, is it hosted seperately from your site?
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cweiske
my site is a static blog
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cweiske
yes, it's different
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ben_thatmustbeme
also, can others use it as their hub?
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ben_thatmustbeme
okay, so its just another hub
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: i'm not following your argument. even if someone wrote their own hub that was only used by them, PuSH is still useful
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cweiske
ben_thatmustbeme, it's *my* hub :) not just another one
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk, if someone is willing to shoulder the burden of a hub, but they have to be cognizent of the fact that they are basically becoming a routing system for ANYONE. The point of PUSH from a producer perspective it to cut down needless traffic to their own site, save bandwidth. if one runs their own hub, that does the opposite
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tantek
what is my hub?
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cweiske
ben_thatmustbeme, you're wrong
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: just because a hub exists does not mean anyone can use it
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cweiske
the publisher chooses which hub he uses
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aaronpk
a hub can require registration before it will start publishing things
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cweiske
and all people will ask this hub if they want to subscribe to the publishers content
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ben_thatmustbeme
when then its not a hub, you are just using the push instead of pull model, its not really a hub
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cweiske
so you still have less traffic on your website
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cweiske
and the traffic is handled by your hub
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tantek
cweiske: are you running two servers then?
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tantek
then your (one) server is still handling more traffic in total
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tantek
since it is both hub+website
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cweiske
erm. no.
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cweiske
because all the polling is gone
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cweiske
but yes, it's more traffic than using a distant hub
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ben_thatmustbeme
the polling is still there, just some polling isn't there
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tantek
cweiske: how are you discouraging others from polling your server?
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cweiske
I don't, I wait for them support push
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ben_thatmustbeme
i should be clear, at that point you are really just supporting push, not writing a hub
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ben_thatmustbeme
loqi agrees with me :P
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cweiske
I don't understand you
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tantek
cweiske: can anyone use phubb ? or does it reject subscribe requests for anything other than your website?
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: i don't understand why the semantics of defining a hub that way is useful
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cweiske
even if it's my personal hub, it's still a hub
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk, for fan-out
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tantek
what is a personal hub?
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cweiske
ben_thatmustbeme, could you please explain fan-out?
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cweiske
tantek, personal hub = hub only I can publish to
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tantek
cweiske: hence my question: can anyone use phubb ? or does it reject subscribe requests for anything other than your website?
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cweiske
it is currently open
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cweiske
for anyone
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tantek
interesting
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ben_thatmustbeme
cweiske: the fan-out problem is that as you increase in subscribers your sending goes up contantly. With polling this became exponential, with pubsubhubbub in this makes it only increase at a constant rate (2N really)
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cweiske
but that does not matter for the categorization of it being a hub
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cweiske
ben_thatmustbeme, I still don't see the problem
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cweiske
why shouldn't my hub handle those subscribers properly?
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cweiske
if superfeedr can handle it, I can handle it, too
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cweiske
*just add more worker processes*
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ben_thatmustbeme
with an external hub, you are diverting all the work of sending traffic to external services (they pull your page once and send to your N subscribers) throughput burden is just 1 pull, nothing more (since pubsubhubbub is supposed to include the content)
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ben_thatmustbeme
thus increase in subscribers only puts burden on the hub (which will be services that have high bandwidth)
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tantek
what is how to hub?
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ben_thatmustbeme
if you are running the site on your own, the benefits are only minor (you switch from polling to pushing) but you still have N pushes on your bandwidth, not just 1
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ben_thatmustbeme
s/not just 1/not just one pull/
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: if you are running the site on your own, the benefits are only minor (you switch from polling to pushing) but you still have N pushes on your bandwidth, not just one pull
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ben_thatmustbeme
the idea of hubs was to optimize YOUR bandwidth as a publisher
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cweiske
having your own server also doesn't optimize your bandwidth
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cweiske
pushing the website to github pages or whatnot optimizes your bandwidth
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cweiske
but this is not reason for declining my hub the hub status
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cweiske
ben_thatmustbeme, it's a side effect of push that you get your bandwidth optimized when using an external hub
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cweiske
but it's not the central point
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cweiske
I quote the spec:
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cweiske
"We offer this spec in hopes that it fills a need or at least advances the state of the discussion in the pubsub space. Polling sucks. We think a decentralized pubsub layer is a fundamental, missing layer in the Internet architecture today and its existence, more than just enabling the obvious lower latency feed readers, would enable many cool applications, most of which we can't even imagine. But we're looking forward to d
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cweiske
ecentralized social networking."
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cweiske
all about push vs. poll, nothing about bandwidth
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ben_thatmustbeme
that IS the main problem with polling
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cweiske
no. latency is the problem with polling
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ben_thatmustbeme
if bandwidth was unlimited polling would be latency free
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ben_thatmustbeme
because you could constantly poll, its not efficient
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ben_thatmustbeme
if it were not the point, then the spec would have been ONLY for notifying subscribers of messages, and would not involve hubs at all
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ben_thatmustbeme
you are doing pubsub without the hub... bub
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cweiske
i'd like to kick you out of the channel if I could
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aaronpk
cweiske: that's a bit uncalled for
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snarfed
(because of the bad pun, i assume :P)
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Loqi
snarfed: tantek left you a message 28 minutes ago: thanks for the bug fix! Bridgy Publish worked for me just now to FB. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-02/line/1427984574180
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: I think the spec was trying to solve two problems
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aaronpk
the hub part of push is kind of analogous to how a webmention endpoint is not necessarily the same server as the website
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cweiske
I chose to pay the bandwidth myself
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cweiske
it's still push
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cweiske
s/push/pubsubhubbub/
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Loqi
cweiske meant to say: it's still pubsubhubbub
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tantek
agreed
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cweiske
I can change the hub link on my blog's feed to suprfeedr, and all would be the same
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cweiske
except that the bandwidth would be at superfeedr
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cweiske
but that's about it
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tantek
cweiske: and stats too right?
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tantek
s/stats/subscriber stats
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: cweiske: and subscriber stats too right?
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cweiske
superfeedr may offer that, too - I did not check
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aaronpk
superfeedr has minimal stats
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tantek
or was it subscriber notifications? like with your own hub you know immediately when you get a new subscriber right?
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tantek
people used to display their number of subscribers on their site right?
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cweiske
but I also get stats
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tantek
so there is a UI reason too
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tantek
cweiske: do you display the # of PuSH subscribers on your site?
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cweiske
and I won't
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aaronpk
ooh i want to do that
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cweiske
getting subscriber stats was a reason for people to use feedburner
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tantek
aaronpk - yet another reason for "why" to /how-to-hub
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aaronpk
okay gotta close IRC for a while
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tantek
me too
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cweiske.de
edited /PubSubHubbub (+119) "/* Matthias Pfefferle */"
(view diff)
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cweiske.de
edited /PubSubHubbub (+4) "/* Matthias Pfefferle */"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
guess I look at the network topology optizimation more than anything, i'm really over optimizing
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ben_thatmustbeme
also, aaronpk is correct, it would never happen that everyone would run their own but even still the net effect would be better
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ben_thatmustbeme
cweiske++ for creating another hub
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Loqi
cweiske has 23 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme
s/hub/hub that is open source/
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: cweiske++ for creating another hub that is open source
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tommorris
aaronpk: webmention.io SSL cert is out-of-date
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aaronpk
oh dammit thanks
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aaronpk
fixed!
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snarfed
"This type of format can be expected in certain endpoints. This is by design. Please treat IDs as unique strings, they are not meant to be broken down and used."
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snarfed
i replied "the problem i mentioned is that we've received the same comments with different ids (without colons) in the past, and we depend on consistent ids…"
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kylewm
holy fast response
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snarfed
no shit, right?
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ben_thatmustbeme
went to click that link "you must log in to continue" ... closed the window :p
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kylewm
snarfed++ for bravely filing a FB bug report :)
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Loqi
snarfed has 97 karma
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snarfed
what's the worst that could happen?
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snarfed
they shut down the app?
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snarfed
…oh wait….hmm...
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kylewm
I'm not too worried about that!
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snarfed
s/brave/stupid/ :P
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kylewm
more worried about them just removing API features over time so it breaks little by little
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: done! :P
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ben_thatmustbeme
oh, snafed... on slack?
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ben_thatmustbeme
hello from :ben:
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: lol <@U03QU365N>. saw it yesterday too. fun!
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Loqi
slack/ben_thatmustbeme: also added :pbjt:
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: kylewm: honestly my biggest question now is the whole "63" conspiracy theory thing
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: so curious!
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ben_thatmustbeme
63 conspiracy?
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: <@U03QU365N> read <https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/305>
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Loqi
slack/kylewm: tl;dr 63's keep showing up in FB comment IDs, first they were just the number 63, now they are 63 run through the app-scoped id generator
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Loqi
slack/kylewm: haha, I wondered what you were doing with :pbjt:!
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Loqi
slack/kylewm: whereyat, whereyat, whereyat, now thereyago, thereyago
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kylewm
If i had gotten this email from LiveJournal yesterday I wouldn't have believed it.
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kylewm
"Our new Remember LiveJournal promotion lets active members like you send their long lost LiveJournal friends an invitation to return"
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Does slack use https?
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Loqi
slack/tantek: kylewm can you capture that on /LiveJournal somehow? It gives hope to counter the shutdown email that I documented there.
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Loqi
slack/tbrb: <@U03QSEYTP>: Yeah, slack uses HTTPS for their main interface
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Loqi
slack/tantek: So basically because router/switch/captiveportal vendors have annoying / dumb defaults we're forced to build any new reliable network apps on http(s) ports 80/443 and nothing else.
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snarfed
yup. true…but probably not a big deal. of all the constraints that actually matter to what we build, port and transport protocol are probably pretty low on the list
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snarfed
and even then there is some slow progress and experimentation, e.g. spdy and quic
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ben_thatmustbeme
!tell aaronpk, is it possible to get Loqi to correct the user names in @mentions coming from slack so we see @tantek instead of <@U03QSEYTP>
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme
damnit... i did it again
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it
loqi?
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Loqi
it: tantek left you a message 5 days, 9 hours ago: could act as a router for paying people at a particular domain
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is
loqi?
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Loqi
is: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 2 minutes ago: it possible to get Loqi to correct the user names in @mentions coming from slack so we see @tantek instead of <@U03QSEYTP> http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-02/line/1428001376199
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rhiaro
tbrb and I are at an open data hack night, and we're evangelising indieweb
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ben_thatmustbeme
well, at least i'm not the only one who did that
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Loqi
rhiaro has 42 karma
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rhiaro
I do it for the karma ^^
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tommorris.org
edited /site-deaths (+319) "adding lyrk.de"
(view diff)
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Loqi
slack/tbrb: ben_thatmustbeme: It should be possible, however it would require Loqi to do another call to the Slack API to look up what name is associated with the user id
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ben_thatmustbeme
i figured it would have the full text somewhere as well
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tommorris.org
created /Template:Date (+413) "template for date formats"
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tommorris.org
edited /site-deaths (+9) "testing new date template"
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tommorris.org
edited /Template:Date (+1) "colon syntax"
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tommorris.org
edited /Template:Date (-1) "significant whitespace?"
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tommorris.org
edited /Template:Date (+1) "blimey, it's been a while. I do not like MW templates."
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Loqi
slack/tbrb: ben_thatmustbeme: Yeah, you'd think so, but I think the outgoing-webhook api only shows the line as it goes through the slack backend rather than the frontend. Also, funnily enough, when you posted &lt;@U03QSEYTP&gt; it got translated on the slack side to the correct user
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tommorris.org
edited /Template:Date (+3) "magic might help"
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tommorris
I hate mediawiki templates.
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tommorris.org
edited /site-deaths (-9) "I give up."
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tommorris
tantek__, aaronpk: can you delete this? http://indiewebcamp.com/Template:Date (or you can +sysop me and I’ll tidy up after myself like I do on most wikis).
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aaronparecki.com
edited /Special:Log/rights () "changed group membership for User:Tommorris.org from (none) to sysop"
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aaronpk
tommorris: you should be able to delete it now
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Loqi
aaronpk: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 24 minutes ago: it possible to get Loqi to correct the user names in @mentions coming from slack so we see @tantek instead of <@U03QSEYTP> http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-02/line/1428001376199
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tommorris
aaronpk: thanks.
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: i have no idea... i am not using the slack API right now
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tommorris.org
deleted /Template:Date "Author request"
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aaronpk
at least nothing besides the web hooks api and the method to post to a slack channel
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gRegor`
What are you trying to do with the date template, tommorris? Or is it something our version of MW doesn't support?
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gRegor`
Shh, Loqi
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Loqi
is done
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tommorris
gRegor`: I was trying to make a template that lets you put {{Date|2015-01-01}} and it’d give you <time datetime="2015-01-01">2015-01-01</time>
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gRegor`
Ah. Yeah, I ran into a similar limitation with the event template a while back. I forget what it was, but I think we were limited by the MW version
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gregorlove.com
edited /User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox (+0) "revisiting event template"
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Unnecessary dry violation. Plus no need for MW syntax when markup will do: &lt;time&gt;2015-01-01&lt;/time&gt;
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gRegor`
Found the reference re: <time> element: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-05-10#t1399751004000
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gRegor`
tantek makes a good point in this case, though.
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Apparently slack to irc (archives) errantly double html escapes markup.
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ben_thatmustbeme
or rather, it doesn't unescape it
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ben_thatmustbeme
when it posts in slack, you are posting the escaped form, loqi is just reading that text back as is
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ben_thatmustbeme
wonders if he can @mention people back to slack by <@U03QSEYTP>
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Loqi
slack/tbrb: Yes, ben
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ben_thatmustbeme
huh, that worked
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ben_thatmustbeme
!tell aaronpk oh interesting, I have bots logging from Slack, but they are on IRC, and thus get the text version automatically
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegor`
Any comments on http://indiewebcamp.com/User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox and http://indiewebcamp.com/Template:one-day-event? I think it's ready for use on /events. I just kind of lost track of it. Feel free to test on that sandbox page.
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gRegor`
One difference is /events wraps each city name in a p-location for HWCs, but this template puts them all in one p-location.
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gRegor`
Not sure how crucial that is or not.
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gRegor`
KartikPrabhu: HWC next week on the 8th?
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gRegor`
Might be the last one. I'm moving April 24th, so will have to see how that week is going.
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gregorlove.com
edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ next"
(view diff)
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gregorlove.com
edited /Events (+995) "next"
(view diff)
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tantek
hmm - that use of separate p-location for each city was deliberate
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tantek
I wouldn't want to lose that
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tantek
because by keeping the time "floating" (without timezone), one "event" was able to represent all those locations
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Loqi
[mention] Matthias Pfefferle posted 'Mein erster Titelthema Artikel …über ein Thema das mich gerade sehr beschäftigt: Die IndieWeb-Bewegung hat gerade in den letzten Jahre...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCamps (http://notizblog.org/2015/04/02/indieweb-die-daten-sind-wir/)
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tantek
oh those are just "new" numbers
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tantek
rhiaro++ for speading the good indieweb word
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Loqi
rhiaro has 43 karma
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gRegor`
Good point, tantek. I'll tweak it to see how I can add multiple p-locations.
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kylewm.com
edited /LiveJournal (+679) "/* Notable Events */ Remember LiveJournal"
(view diff)
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@NorthCreekSoft
@Sylv1_Montreuil #databutler - a site that links data inside spreadsheets to cloud tools to update and #ownyourdata - no more csv import
(twitter.com/_/status/583726624144814082)
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tantek
cool! I was able to like aaronpk's Berlin half marathon! https://aaronparecki.com/metrics/2015/03/29/103711/
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tantek
aaronpk: do you get many responses on your metrics posts?
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tantek
plus I still think you should link people's icons to the permalink of their likes if they're indieweb like that (rather than silo backfeeds)
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kylewm
If I like a <span class="p-p3k-drink">Beer</span>, is that like indie-untappd?
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kylewm
and indie-cheers as it were
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tantek
what is untappd?
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benwerd
Anyone here a DNS genius who would be up for 30 mins to an hour of paid consultancy?
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kylewm
Untappd is a social drinking app.
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loqi.me
created /Untappd (+60) "prompted by tantek https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-04-02/line/1428006514837 and dfn added by kylewm"
(view diff)
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tantek
untappd is /Untappd
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tantek.com
created /untappd (+21) "r"
(view diff)
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tantek
kylewm: is Untappd just an app? or is it a site too? does it have permalinks to drinks or drinkings?
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gRegor`
indie-cheers, where everyone knows your indie-name.
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kylewm
investigates
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@BBJournalismus
IndieWeb – Die Daten sind wir! von @pfefferle http://
(twitter.com/_/status/583729289293598720)
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kylewm.com
edited /Untappd (+273) "expanded definition"
(view diff)
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kylewm
tantek: it's a site with permalinks, and it looks pretty decent without javascript
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tantek
so a beer silo?
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tantek
I guess that's close to a grain silo
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kylewm.com
edited /Untappd (+0) "had my MW link markup backwards. checkin <-> checkins"
(view diff)
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tantek
kylewm: is a food or drink checkin actually a consumption metric?
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tantek
the dilution of the term "checkin" is not helping anybody
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kylewm
hmm, they are actually called Check-ins on Untappd
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ben_thatmustbeme
huh, didn't realize, vidyo is all over the place
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ben_thatmustbeme
and that was in 2012
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kylewm
and are associated with a location almost as much as they are associated with a drink
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ben_thatmustbeme
sorry, random aside
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tantek
kylewm: well that's more interesting then
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tantek
a single post which is both a checkin and a consumption metric
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kylewm
and a review
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tantek
the locations appear to be venues
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tantek
or ratings at least
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tantek
dang that's a pretty interesting example of a composite post type
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tantek
though from the URL structure and the permalink display prominently saying "1754 Check-ins" under bear's name, that makes me think they intend it primarily as a "checkin" and all other information is secondary
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@adammathes
Publish On Your Own Site But Copy/Paste Elsewhere Because The IndieWeb Spent 10 Years Arguing About XML While Social Networks Happened
(twitter.com/_/status/583733363262894080)
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kylewm
the type of beer is the only required information to make a check in
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tantek
adammathes sounds confused
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@adammathes
IndieWeb suggests POSSE -- Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere but my AuthWeb philosophy is POYOSBCPEBTIWSTYAAXWSNH
(twitter.com/_/status/583733574118932480)
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@adammathes
Publish On Your Own Site But Copy/Paste Elsewhere Because The IndieWeb Spent 10 Years Arguing About XML While Social Networks Happened
(twitter.com/_/status/583733607140757505)
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tantek
the indieweb does not depend on XML
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tantek
kylewm: it doesn't let you checkin without a type of beer?
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tantek
or food?
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kylewm
beer only, no food
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bear
@tantek it is only for beer and you have to specify at least the beer
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bear
optionally where
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bear
the Toast feature is just like +1 or likes
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@adammathes
Is it cross-posting if nobody reads the original?
(twitter.com/_/status/583732795006066688)
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bear
and you can also leave comments
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tantek
is adammathes posting any of those tweets to his own site?
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bear
wow - that adammathes comment misses so many points
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tantek
useful to respond? or just trolling?
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ben_thatmustbeme
just trolling i think
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kylewm
benwerd follows him
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kylewm
so not just some rando
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ben_thatmustbeme
but more looks like he is trolling for arguements
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gRegor`
Someone point him to /xml? Heh
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benwerd
Yeah, he inspired me to make my first web thing. I'm a fan of his. (Also he coined "Google bomb".)
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gRegor`
Ooh
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tantek.com
edited /Untappd (+280) "rewrite definition noting required vs. optional aspects, and loose use of term "check-in", add examples, see also"
(view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
what is xml?
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Loqi
XML is a markup language syntax, similar to SGML, but with draconian error handling that tends to make it fragile in practice https://indiewebcamp.com/XML
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@adammathes
Before we get into a flamewar, I know that's inaccurate and unfair. It's been at least 15 years.
(twitter.com/_/status/583733888494645249)
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tantek
perhaps we need an @indieclippy to reply to such posts
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gRegor`
Or more like /RSS#Criticisms than /xml
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tantek
hmm - works at Yahoo. Have sympathy. http://adammathes.com/
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gRegor`
Heh "It looks like you're trying to troll someone! Would you like..."
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tantek
more like
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tantek
@adammathes it looks like you're using a silo to complain about silos, but you already have your own domain. Would you like to install an indiewebcamp.com/project to get started owning your posts?
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kylewm
I mean ... isn't that basically the narrative? indie web development stalled because of XML bikeshedding?
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tantek
alright, there are 20+ followers of his that I know
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tantek
but I'm down to 1% battery
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tantek
so I'll leave the clever / encouraging / welcoming @-reply to the rest of you
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ben_thatmustbeme
how about just "copy/paste IS posse. welcome to indieweb"
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Manual posse at least :P
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benwerd
Ooooor we could let it roll off our backs and make more and more awesome tools.
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gRegor`
benwerd++
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Loqi
benwerd has 68 karma
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Benwerd do you think he is not genuinely interested in building his own online presence?
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Loqi
slack/tantek: I mean treat it as an opportunity to welcome and help rather than argue.
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Loqi
slack/tantek: Plus: look ma, no XML!
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kylewm
eh, let people be snarky on twitter. it's what it's there for. he's obviously reading the wiki if he's making fun of POSSE
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ben_thatmustbeme
no necessarily, could have heard of it elsewhere
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snarfed
aww man i missed the beer markup discussion
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snarfed
…which is probably fine. i'll happily add whatever markup to https://snarfed.org/beer
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www.rmendes.net
edited /Known-fr (+53) "/* Exemples Indieweb */"
(view diff)
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snarfed
in other news…kylewm, we got this reply from FB, which…kinda…facepalm? https://developers.facebook.com/bugs/786903278061433/?comment_id=1581220468761695
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snarfed
he's responding, and yet very clearly not answering the question. not sure what i should say to him…
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kylewm
wtf, I understood he was confused by the original email, but the followup was pretty damn clear
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snarfed
i think he saw the "without colons" part and glazed at everything else
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www.rmendes.net
edited /Known (+53) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
(view diff)
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kylewm
at the same time, at least their support is up to the same quality as their API and documentation
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@swirlee
RT @adammathes: IndieWeb suggests POSSE -- Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere but my AuthWeb philosophy is POYOSBCPEBTIWSTYAAX…
(twitter.com/_/status/583739936064405505)
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@swirlee
RT @adammathes: Publish On Your Own Site But Copy/Paste Elsewhere Because The IndieWeb Spent 10 Years Arguing About XML While Social Networ…
(twitter.com/_/status/583739945128296448)
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snarfed
kylewm++
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Loqi
kylewm has 149 karma
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@benwerd
@adammathes In all seriousness: keeping all my posts in a place where I can search for them later is useful. Less Diaspora, more Evernote.
(twitter.com/_/status/583736644903149568)
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kylewm
snarfed: is it worth trying one more time? or should we just move forward assuming it's a one-time change and there won't be new duplicates going forward?
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snarfed
kylewm: yeah i'm replying right now
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snarfed
i'd love to assume it's a one-off, except it's happened twice so far that we've noticed :/
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gRegor`
Based on the multiple similar responses in the other bug report he linked, I'm not hopeful for a better response.
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kylewm
snarfed: you didn't change anything in bridgy yet did you?
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snarfed
kylewm: for the bad ids? no
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kylewm
hmm, sorry false alarm. i thought i was getting backfeeds, but they were from just before the bad ids started
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snarfed
reply from the FB guy: "oh wait what, that doesn't sound right. looking at this again."
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snarfed
love it
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KartikPrabhu
gRegor`: up for HWC on the 8th
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KartikPrabhu
i will be in Princeton on 24th so this would be the last Chicago HWC
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gRegor`
The following is the 22nd, not 24th
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gRegor`
But yeah, I'm ok with that if it's tight scheduling.
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KartikPrabhu
oh hmm will still be in Princeton :P
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kylewm
snarfed: crap, i don't have an example of the duplicates from this batch because none of those posts were backfed to my site before
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gRegor`
Ah, ok then.
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gRegor`
Well maybe we can celebrate after HWC on the 8th.
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snarfed
kylewm: np! thanks though. i honestly don't know if there are any dupes this time. just that there were last time, reported by aaronpk
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kylewm
i bet there were
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KartikPrabhu
gRegor`: sure... i'll be up for that and we can also take a picture that tantek keeps telling us about :P
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gRegor`
doesn't believe in pictures
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kylewm
snarfed: I think I found one!
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snarfed
kylewm: woo nice!!!
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snarfed
feel free to post to that fb bug
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snarfed
thank you!
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@adammathes
@benwerd I've written tools to do this https://github.com/adammathes/ekko but I have not personally found it as useful as embracing impermanence
(twitter.com/_/status/583757333395681280)
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kylewm
impermanence on twitter is illusory
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kylewm
see: Trevor Noah
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tantek
kylewm: indeed, see also Twitter search now goes back to the beginning, and LoC has a copy of all of it.
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kylewm
so if it's going to be permanent, i'd like to have a copy of it :)
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Loqi
[mention] gRegor Morrill posted 'Join us for Homebrew Website Club next Wednesday! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club https://www.facebook.com/e...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-04-08-homebrew-website-club (/notes/2015/04/02/1/)
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gRegor`
It would be great if the people we've been inviting to HWC came and kept it going after I move. :)
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kylewm
gRegor`: maybe you should market it differently to them? Chicago HWC Going Out of Business Sale: Everyone Must Come
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gRegor`
Hehe
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gRegor`
Wednesday, Wednesday, Wednesday!
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@gRegorLove
This will be my last Homebrew Website Club in Chicago. If others are interested in keeping it going, definitely get in touch. #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/583762949061287936)
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gregorlove.com
edited /Events (-7) "/* Upcoming */"
(view diff)
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gRegor`
4/04 day coming. Anyone have anything planned? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-09-05/line/1378427562000
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kylewm
I'm giggling thinking of alternate reality trevor noah searching his Known archive for jokes about "jews" and "fat chicks" to sanitize his tweets
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tantek.com
created /drink (+18) "r for now"
(view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /food (+427) "add stub why and how sections, and silo example Untappd"
(view diff)
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KevinMarks
Pull request to myWordEditor to make it indieweb compatible https://github.com/scripting/myWordEditor/pull/1
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KevinMarks
should I have added webmention.herokuapp.com link and JS as well as the disqus stuff?
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tantek
KevinMarks: why is Disqus useful?
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tantek
what is Disqus?
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Loqi
Disqus is a comments hosting silo https://indiewebcamp.com/Disqus
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tantek
alrighty then
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@zenbot
RT @adammathes: Publish On Your Own Site But Copy/Paste Elsewhere Because The IndieWeb Spent 10 Years Arguing About XML While Social Networ…
(twitter.com/_/status/583775431272173569)
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tantek
I still didn't realize we were around for 10 years.
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