#indiewebcamp 2015-02-27

2015-02-27 UTC
#
tantek
that just leaves i u y
#
aaronpk
benweird
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
snarfed1 joined the channel
#
Loqi
slack/vanderwal: spiderpig looks good! Wished I had it before I moved form TypePad to Squarespace for one blog
#
aaronpk
i haven't actually tested restoring the site yet, but that might be a project for tomorrow
#
aaronpk
it looks like it's doing what it's supposed to tho
#
Loqi
slack/vanderwal: I'm finding I needed a link and image checker
#
vanderwal
I’m wanting an HTML archive of my vanderwal.net blog
#
aaronpk
you can do that with SPIDERPIG
#
aaronpk
i think i should change the name of it to be all caps always
#
millette
aaronpk, just curious, did you give wget a try?
#
aaronpk
hahahaha
#
aaronpk
wget never does what i want it to
#
millette
I had to parse an "ajax" website to archive it to cd-rom (those were the days) - I used wget + a tiny proxy to convert ajax stuff, turned out quite well.
#
millette
tiny ^custom^ proxy
#
rascul
aaronpk maybe see httrack
#
GWG
Another week over
#
Loqi
slack/kevinmarks: experimenting with medium's new PESOS features
#
GWG
Time to code.
#
Loqi
slack/kevinmarks: if you select text they will post to twitter with a link and an image with that text highlighted
#
rascul
GWG i've been saying that for weeks
#
rascul
beer has been winning
#
GWG
Hmmm... Official Twitter plugin for WordPress.
#
GWG
rascul: Last night, dust bunnies for me.
#
rascul
one of these days i should upgrade my sister's known stuff
#
rascul
maybe i'll take a break from "coding" this weekend to do it ;)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
GWG
Good luck
alanpearce joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_
also you can PESATAS/POSSE in a post of your own from outside
#
rascul
what is pesatas?
#
Loqi
PESETAS is an acronym/abbreviation for Publish Elsewhere, Syndicate Everything To A Silo https://indiewebcamp.com/PESATAS
#
GWG
It's the name of my new Mexican restaurant
#
rascul
i love mexican food
#
rascul
tacos and burritos and taco bell and hot sauce
#
GWG
I've never been in a Taco Bell
#
rascul
you're not missing much
#
millette
there's almost meat in there!
#
@johncappiello
I wonder if somehow #indieweb embraced identity it would help end run around addressibility silos #RampUp15
(twitter.com/_/status/571111190450937856)
#
rascul
i'm missing how indieweb doesn't embrace identity, and i'm not understanding the "addressibility silos" part
#
@kevinmarks
@johncappiello what do you mean by "#indieweb embraced identity" ? Have you seen http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth ? it was in evidence at #IIW
(twitter.com/_/status/571111731209969664)
#
@johncappiello
@kevinmarks not sure. Just pontificating. I've got indieauth working. Two groups of people facing some overlapping challenges.
(twitter.com/_/status/571112001671335936)
#
@johncappiello
@aaronpk @kevinmarks off the cuff attempt to rephrase. Adtech dislike the silos as much as #indieweb. Can they work together? I know...
(twitter.com/_/status/571113513172668419)
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
Loqi
[bridgy] Aaron Parecki replied '@johncappiello @kevinmarks Still not sure what you mean embrace. #IndieWeb is all about identity. (aaron.pk/r4_s3)' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth (https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/571112798119337984)
#
Loqi
[bridgy] Kevin Marks replied '@johncappiello @aaronpk the indiewebcamp.com/POSSE idea applies to companies as much as individuals.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/571113963930259456)
#
Loqi
[bridgy] John Cappiello replied '@kevinmarks have to solve that as I blog and set it up here: aseriesofideas.com will find you in irc and maybe you can help me. #jcap' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth (https://twitter.com/johncappiello/status/571113944699379713)
#
Loqi
[mention] Pierre Ozoux posted 'I (re)discovered caliopen! 2 min read A while ago, I heard a...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/silo (https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/i-rediscovered-caliopen)
#
Loqi
[bridgy] John Cappiello replied '@aaronpk @kevinmarks off the cuff attempt to rephrase. Adtech dislike the silos as much as #indieweb. Can they work together? I know...' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth (https://twitter.com/johncappiello/status/571113513172668419)
#
Loqi
[mention] Pierre Ozoux posted 'I (re)discovered caliopen! 2 min read A while ago, I heard a...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/indiereader (https://microblog.pierre-o.fr/2015/i-rediscovered-caliopen)
Deledrius__ joined the channel
#
Loqi
[bridgy] Kevin Marks replied '@johncappiello where do you have it working? indiewebify.me/validate-rel-m… says not and johncappiello.com redirects to LinkedIN' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth (https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/571113632693555201)
#
KevinMarks
loqi is loquacious
#
Loqi
who, me?
#
snarfed1
KevinMarks++
#
Loqi
KevinMarks has 86 karma
Deledrius joined the channel
#
tantek
weird tweets there
alanpearce, rschulman, loic_m_, gRegor` and lukebrooker_ joined the channel
#
distresssignal.org
edited /IRC_People (+59) "/* Nicknames */"
(view diff)
#
distresssignal.org
edited /IRC_People (+68) "/* Nicknames */"
(view diff)
zero-gravitas, davemenninger and gRegor`_ joined the channel
#
loqi.me
created /thawr (+126) "prompted by ben_thatmustbeme and dfn added by ben_thatmustbeme"
(view diff)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@bookprescom
How to Use Facebook Video Cards for Business >> http://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/?p=78280&utm_content=buffer57ed5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Christian Karasiewicz. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth…
(twitter.com/_/status/571157795707465729)
#
Loqi
[mention] Eric Woodward posted 'Developing the Web 2 min read The great @rem wrote a piece a...' linking to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (http://eric.wonderdome.us/2015/developing-the-web)
#
tantek
I love that I can recognize Known sites by the "Filter content v" drop down
#
aaronpk
and the little "(K)" at the bottom too ;)
#
kylewm
aaronpk: did you see anywhere in the push spec that says the hub might re-send verification requests for a topic that has already been subscribed?
#
kylewm
could have sworn i saw that somewhere but i'm not seeing it now
#
aaronpk
know but I think I know what you're thinking of
#
aaronpk
and now i can't find that either
#
kylewm
josephsmarr.com/2010/03/01/implementing-pubsubhubbub-subscriber-support-a-step-by-step-guide/##hubs+may+periodically+re-verify
#
kylewm
it sounds like 0.4 puts the onus on subscribers to renew their subscriptions
#
aaronpk
yes, after the number of seconds specified
#
kylewm
so your writeup looks good to me, i don't have anything to add or change
#
kylewm
do you want to remove or summarize barnaby and my notes from the /PuSH page and put a link to the new page?
#
kylewm
that josephsmarr writeup is exceptionally good btw, it describes a painless upgrade path from polling to subscribing
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
alanpearce joined the channel
snarfed joined the channel
#
aaronpk
tantek: I would be curious to get your feedback on the PuSH writeup I did earlier https://indiewebcamp.com/How_to_publish_and_consume_PubSubHubbub
#
aaronpk
I'm curious if it is more understandable than what you've read so far, and if it seems more achievable
#
tantek
will try to take a look this weekend
#
aaronpk
cool thanks
#
tantek
yeah I gave up on the previous version
snarfed joined the channel
#
aaronpk
I'm trying to do for PuSH what I did for OAuth 2.0 with this post http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2012/07/29/1/oauth2-simplified
lukebrooker and upper-- joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
So pubsubhubbub is (long to type on a phone and) public only right?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
You can't really do private messaging
#
aaronpk
I don't think PuSH specifies anything about access control of the content
#
aaronpk
so yes you could
#
ben_thatmustbeme
But I would likely need to write my own hub
#
aaronpk
at a really high level all PuSH does is tell you that a URL is updated
#
tantek
which is good
#
tantek
not too different than webmention
#
aaronpk
if that URL happens to have an auth token in the query string then you can use existing hubs
#
tantek
aaronpk - is that subject to mitm attacks via the hub?
#
aaronpk
otherwise yeah you might need to write your own hub, but i'm pretty sure it would stil count as PuSH
#
aaronpk
probably yeah
#
aaronpk
from what I gathered reading up on this, nobody got very far with authenticated content
#
aaronpk
but they tried to leave the option open
#
ben_thatmustbeme
Well I've been interested in private messaging for a while. But really need proper push notifications of webmentions
#
tantek
so that piece is unproven
#
tantek
well, private content is a hard problem
#
tantek
in a distributed sphere
#
ben_thatmustbeme
Neeeed sleep
#
ben_thatmustbeme
Goodnight all
#
Loqi
ciao
KartikPrabhu and sparverius joined the channel
#
Loqi
slack/kevinmarks: From the discussion I remember, PuSH for private content would notify the hub that an update had happened, but the subscribers would need a decryption key supplied out of band
#
Loqi
slack/kevinmarks: So you don't need to trust the hub (or chain of hubs, as that was in the thought process) with keys
#
Loqi
slack/kevinmarks: There was discussion of authenticity back upstream to get the pings, but that turned into Salmon iirc
#
Loqi
slack/kevinmarks: s/authenticity/authentication/
#
aaronpk
kevinmarks: yeah that'd work if the hubs always get pinged on new content, but the hubs wouldn't be able to see the private content so they couldn't fall back to polling or anything
#
aaronpk
it should work though
#
tantek
private messaging shouldn't expose publicly that messages are even happening
#
aaronpk
correct
#
aaronpk
since the publisher gets to choose which hub they send pings to, you can think of it as the publisher having a trusted relationship with the hub
#
aaronpk
so there's nothing "public" about that
#
tantek
there's no such thing as generic trust
#
tantek
that's the flaw
#
tantek
you can't reason by saying
#
tantek
you trust the hub to deliver
#
tantek
thus you trust the hub to keep private
#
tantek
everything is a different capability
#
aaronpk
no that's the brilliance of this
#
aaronpk
the hub doesn't need to know the contents of the message, just that there is one
#
aaronpk
i.e. if I'm using PuSH to notify you of private messages, I don't have to allow arbitrary hubs to support the notification
#
tantek
my point is it shouldn't even know that
#
aaronpk
but you can be your own hub
#
tantek
and that a direct peer to peer setup is better
#
tantek
can be is insufficient
#
aaronpk
frankly there isn't a lot of advantage of PuSH for private messages since direct notification is easier
#
aaronpk
the whole point of PuSH is to offload the burden of notifying a large number of subscribers of new content
#
tantek
exactly
#
aaronpk
if you only have to tell a half dozen people about new content (assume small group messaging) then you might as well do it yourself
#
tantek
but what about a post to a private group of 700 people? (actualy personal use case)
#
aaronpk
and PuSH without the hub is basically webmention
#
tantek
ah that's different sorry
#
tantek
that's just a *single* private post destination
#
tantek
and then that destination has to do its own ACL
#
tantek
posting to a private/closed/secret group that is
#
aaronpk
yeah I think private groups are different. the main difference being where the ACL happens (in the group vs in your client)
#
aaronpk
e.g. a group iMessage conversation cannot have people added to it
alanpearce joined the channel
#
aaronpk
whoa first occurrence i've seen in the wild of a Known database connection error http://bmann.ca/2015/where-is-the-frontier
#
@dickelippe
@beckenhaub ich habe mich für den afternoon with shopify angemeldet, nicht fürs indiewebcamp. Reise also spätestens Sonntag an...
(twitter.com/_/status/571202388784254976)
#
tantek
there, better to post that summary on my own site than just on IG as description for the photo
wolftune joined the channel
#
aaronpk
tonight I have found myself adding tags to my "like" posts
#
tantek
that sounds like bookmarking
#
tantek
in the delicious sense
#
aaronpk
it does
#
aaronpk
except I first just "liked" a bunch of posts, and later went back and added tags
#
aaronpk
I didn't expect to add the tag when I first posted the "like"
#
tantek
then later went back and added tags should be separate (new) bookmark posts with tags
#
tantek
rather than updating the like
#
aaronpk
I might even argue this is a good example of why explicit post types are not super useful
#
aaronpk
especially since I display the full contents of my likes, so they kinda look more like reposts
#
Loqi
[bridgy] Erin Jo Richey replied '@chrismessina @kevinmarks @benwerd @bmann I use a mix of flat file platforms and stuff with databases for my own stuff.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern (https://twitter.com/erinjo/status/571205399858139136)
#
Loqi
[bridgy] Ben Werdmüller replied '@chrismessina Looong answer to this. Self hosting should be as easy as installing an app. It isn't right now. @kevinmarks @erinjo' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern (https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/571203996972490752)
#
Loqi
[bridgy] Ben Werdmüller replied '@chrismessina I'm not anti-db, clearly. But @bmann is right: shouldn't have to sysadmin. We have a service. Sandstorm etc have promise.' to a tweet http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern (https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/571204965852581889)
cweiske joined the channel
LauraJ joined the channel
KartikPrabhu, iandevlin, alanpearce, loic_m_ and krendil joined the channel
#
atomicules.co.uk
edited /IRC_People (+102) "/* Nicknames */"
(view diff)
#
atomicules.co.uk
edited /IRC_People (-2) "/* Nicknames */"
(view diff)
#
atomicules.co.uk
edited /Jekyll (+59) "/* IndieWeb Examples */"
(view diff)
michielbdejong, pfefferle, LauraJ, eschnou and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
notizblog.org
edited /PubSubHubbub (+128) "/* Added pubsubhubbub plugin */"
(view diff)
#
@channyun
#indieweb 커뮤니티 두번째 모임이 내일 오후 5시에 열립니다. 당일 같은 장소에서 워드프레스 미트업도 열리는데요. 관심 있는 분들 꼭 오세요! https://www.facebook.com/events/747180078729089
(twitter.com/_/status/571234784594128896)
#
notizblog.org
edited /PubSubHubbub (+198) "/* David Shanske */"
(view diff)
#
@arowon
RT @channyun: #indieweb 커뮤니티 두번째 모임이 내일 오후 5시에 열립니다. 당일 같은 장소에서 워드프레스 미트업도 열리는데요. 관심 있는 분들 꼭 오세요! https://www.facebook.com/events/747180078729089
(twitter.com/_/status/571236071058485248)
#
notizblog.org
edited /PubSubHubbub (+1) "/* How to PuSH from WordPress */"
(view diff)
Jihaisse, Sebastien-L, interactivist, stream7, thehighfiveghost, KartikPrabhu and pfefferle joined the channel
sanduhrs, nothingrandom, bupkes and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@PlanetFeeds
Tantek Çelik: #IndieWeb: Homebrew Website Club 2015-02-25 Summary: At last night's Homebrew Website Club w... http://tantek.com/2015/057/b2/indieweb-homebrew-website-club-summary?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
(twitter.com/_/status/571261539212079104)
pfefferle and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
acegiak
aaronpk: i agree that explicit post types are problematic but they solve a lot more than they break. BUT it sounds like you're tryinh
#
acegiak
g to do multikind posting
#
acegiak
which is totally my biggest use case
#
acegiak
or feature need or whatever
interactivist, elf-pavlik, pfefferle, davemenninger, frzn, thehighfiveghost, eburcat, scor, Sebastien-L and nloadholtes joined the channel
#
GWG
Good morning
interactivist joined the channel
#
GWG
pfefferle: I didn't know you wrote a PuSH plugin.
#
pfefferle
GWG I didn’t initially, but I contribute since 2011 and added the v0.4 stuff and a lot more
#
pfefferle
GWG good morning ;)
#
GWG
pfefferle: If I understand what kylewm was telling me, 0.4 would be the version a lot of stuff useful for Indieweb came in for.
#
pfefferle
GWG yes it adds the hub infos to the header instead of <link />s and it supports all kinds of data
#
GWG
Perhaps I will switch plugins then.
#
pfefferle
pfefferle but the pubsubhubbub plugin is only a pub… it doesn’t implement the hub, which PuSHPress seems to do…
LauraJ joined the channel
#
GWG
I'm not sure someone is going to do a new hub part
#
GWG
pfefferle: By the way, I answered your question.
pfefferle, thehighfiveghost and gRegor` joined the channel
#
GWG
pfefferle: Re the whitelist, what are you thinking?
#
pfefferle
GWG you are right about the fokus, but I am not sure if it is correct at the semantic linkbacks either…
#
GWG
pfefferle: What about a compromise then?
#
pfefferle
GWG what compromise?
#
GWG
What if we left the function and the filter, but took out the whitelist function?
#
GWG
That could be a separate plugin
zero-gravitas joined the channel
#
pfefferle
what about adding all this tweaking to the indieweb plugin?
#
pfefferle
the filter is a good idea!
#
GWG
pfefferle: The Indieweb plugin?
#
pfefferle
GWG why not implementing all the tweaking stuff like the whitelist or this https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/pull/41 directly to the indieweb plugin?
#
GWG
You mean that it should handle the optional settings?
#
GWG
And the 'plumbing' should remain separate?
#
GWG
That is an interesting idea.
marcthiele joined the channel
#
GWG
pfefferle: Either way, I will split the two pieces and resubmit just the filter. And move the whitelist elsewhere.
#
GWG
I'm fine with that.
#
pfefferle
GWG cool
#
GWG
pfefferle: Do you think features belong in the Indieweb plugin?
#
gRegor`
As a non-WordPress user, I think it confuses things for "The Indieweb Plugin" to be a helper plugin to install other plugins (as I understand it is now), but then add actual indieweb functionality to it as well.
#
@MGullatta
When a director says "data flow and management isn't something I deal with." #ownyourdata #datawork http://t.co/z5MSQaEvpW
(twitter.com/_/status/571324983017934848)
#
gRegor`
As a helper plugin I think it's cool, though, especially if it's an easy click or two to install the individual plugins
#
pfefferle
GWG but otherwise we have a lot of single plugins for very small use cases, which also confuses a lot.
#
pfefferle
s/GWG/GWG gRegor`
#
Loqi
pfefferle meant to say: GWG gRegor` but otherwise we have a lot of single plugins for very small use cases, which also confuses a lot.
#
gRegor`
Agreed. How many plugins are listed in the indieweb plugin currently?
#
pfefferle
11 and these are only the basic ones
#
gRegor`
Anecdotally, when I suggested a friend install the plugin and linked to the wiki page, she didn't install The Indieweb Plugin, just the Webmention plugin directly.
#
gRegor`
And the link to Semantic Linkbacks sent her to Github, which mentioned schema.org and she was intimidated because she thought it involved more difficult changes in WP
#
GWG
I could always collaborate with pwcc for a "Webmention Security Extras" plugin.
#
GWG
gRegor`: I'm waiting for pfefferle to push the fix for that to the WordPress repo. I rewrote the readme.
#
gRegor`
That's cool. Though I think more needs to happen than just the readme. There's two separate paths to getting indieweb set up on WP. Somehow (I'm not sure), it should be made more clear "to achieve x, y, z, install these plugins"
#
GWG
gRegor`: We've had a lot of trouble with that.
#
pfefferle
GWG that would be nice, I will add the needed filters/actions! (WordPress security extras)
zero-gravitas joined the channel
#
acegiak
are there no plugins that implement a decent system for other plugins to register dependencies?
michielbdejong and alanpearce joined the channel
#
marcthiele.com
edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */"
(view diff)
#
marcthiele.com
edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+0) "/* Participants */"
(view diff)
#
GWG
acegiak: Not exactly.
#
GWG
pfefferle: Updated pull request.
#
acegiak
GWG: also did you see aaronpk was /basically/ trying to do multikind posts?
#
GWG
acegiak: I saw your comment on it. I need to read up to see more.
#
acegiak
*just pointing out that it's not just me*
#
GWG
acegiak: I put in the foundation for implementing it
#
acegiak
GWG: I saw
#
GWG
acegiak: I have to figure out the rest. It's basically a plugin within a plugin.
#
marcthiele.com
edited /2015/Germany (+63) "/* Sponsors */"
(view diff)
#
GWG
I figured when I rewrote the display again...
#
acegiak
I feel like any code that supports multikinds inherently supports single kinds
#
GWG
acegiak: Yes. It is the support functions that would behave differently.
#
GWG
I could code for that. Return either a string with one kind, or an array with many.
#
acegiak
I would always return an array that is sometimes only 1 large
#
marcthiele.com
edited /2015/Germany (+58) "/* Sponsors */"
(view diff)
#
acegiak
BUT I am specifically trying to avoid putting my fingers too deep into this one
#
acegiak
cause I have my fingers in too many pies already
#
GWG
acegiak: I may try to tempt you. I have my fingers in too many things as well
#
GWG
I need to give pfefferle a rest.
#
acegiak
I'm currently trying to avoid the allure of fiddling with tinytinyrss to make it prettier
#
acegiak
s/rss/irc/
#
Loqi
acegiak meant to say: I'm currently trying to avoid the allure of fiddling with tinytinyirc to make it prettier
#
GWG
acegiak: Good luck.
cweiske joined the channel
#
jcap
KevinMarks, aaronpk thanks for suffering my random tweets
#
jcap
still not sure what I'm driving at (wrt to identity from last night)
eschnou joined the channel
#
jcap
but just some things coming to mind while at a conference
#
pdurbin
interesting chatter about federation about half an hour into http://twit.tv/show/this-week-in-google/272
thawr, danlyke_, tfontaine and verdi_ joined the channel
#
thawr
test
stream7 and snarfed joined the channel
#
kylewm
GWG: I got a ping from your pushpress hub!
hmans joined the channel
#
GWG
kylewm: Whee!!
#
GWG
I need to post more, I know
wolftune joined the channel
#
aaronpk
hey wordpress people using the micropub plugin... any ideas on this? https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub/issues/9
eschnou and danlyke_ joined the channel
#
snarfed
aaronpk: looking now
#
snarfed
i convert published to post_date, not post_date_gmt…i assumed they were interchangeable except for time zone
#
snarfed
looking at docs
#
snarfed
the docs seem to imply they are
#
snarfed
and when i tested, passing the published param worked
#
snarfed
is it not for you?
#
snarfed
hmm, this says i do need to set both, even though they're redundant. http://wordpress.stackexchange.com/a/128561
eschnou joined the channel
#
GWG
snarfed: New version of syndication links, by the way
#
aaronpk
thanks snarfed!
frzn_ joined the channel
#
aaronpk
I wonder if themes might use one date or the other
#
aaronpk
so you may not see the wrong date in certain themes?
#
@andkjaer
How to Use Facebook Video Cards for Business >> http://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/?p=78280&utm_content=buffer35ce7&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Christian Karasiewicz. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth…
(twitter.com/_/status/571358134113058817)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
GWG
I'm suddenly thinking about date updated for hcards.
j12t, pfefferle, vanderwal, cweiske, snarfed and eschnou joined the channel
#
kylewm
aaronpk: I got a 404 for amber's style.css
#
@fdevillamil
Definitely adopted a self hosted Laverna as my #indieweb, encrypted notebook and task manager https://laverna.cc
(twitter.com/_/status/571367293667704832)
#
aaronpk
kylewm: that link works for me
#
@MyCozyCloud
RT @fdevillamil: Definitely adopted a self hosted Laverna as my #indieweb, encrypted notebook and task manager https://laverna.cc
(twitter.com/_/status/571368338909208576)
#
@Andre0Ani
RT @fdevillamil: Definitely adopted a self hosted Laverna as my #indieweb, encrypted notebook and task manager https://laverna.cc
(twitter.com/_/status/571368669000929282)
#
kylewm
aaronpk: are you admining or is she?
#
aaronpk
it's on my server right now but she's admining now
#
kylewm
i get a 404 in my browser and curl from my VPS
wolftune joined the channel
#
aaronpk
old dns?
#
aaronpk
oh weird now it's 404 for me too
#
aaronpk
i swear it was working a minute ago
#
jonnybarnes
I get 404 too
tantek joined the channel
#
aaronpk
huh I have no idea
#
tantek
me neither
#
aaronpk
my general stance on wordpress is to stay as far away as possible, while not imposing wordpress alternatives on people who want to use it
#
tantek
same with Drupal
#
aaronpk
haha i would actually actively discourage people from using drupal
#
tantek
aaronpk, whitehouse gov uses it, what could possibly go wrong?
#
@olberger
RT @fdevillamil: Definitely adopted a self hosted Laverna as my #indieweb, encrypted notebook and task manager https://laverna.cc
(twitter.com/_/status/571370839708446721)
#
tantek
GWG, for date updated for hcards you may use dt-updated. microformats vocabulary terms are global
#
GWG
tantek: I know, but is anyone doing it?
marclaporte joined the channel
#
tantek
GWG, not AFAIK
#
GWG
I'm just thinking about how I would know if someone has changed their photo
Pierre-O, KartikPrabhu, j12t, caseorganic and benwerd joined the channel
#
@Alex131089
RT @fdevillamil: Definitely adopted a self hosted Laverna as my #indieweb, encrypted notebook and task manager https://laverna.cc
(twitter.com/_/status/571377641086963712)
snarfed, gRegor` and elf-pavlik_ joined the channel
#
@kartik_prabhu
@ngrilly It is mostly to simply my site’s code. I don’t want to maintain all these sidefiles. http://indiewebcamp.com/sidefile
(twitter.com/_/status/571379820178882560)
#
tantek
assuming KartikPrabhu meant s/simply/simplify
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek err yes :P
#
tantek
is confirming before quoting
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: you ready for this?
#
KartikPrabhu
if this blows up I might have to write an actual explanation
scor joined the channel
#
@t
“dropped my RSS […] to simplify my site’s code. I don’t want to maintain all these sidefiles.” — @kartik_prabhu (ttk.me t4_t1)
(twitter.com/_/status/571382221673603073)
#
KartikPrabhu
oh gee ... here we go
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: it's good to blog about simplifying your site to be easier to maintain
#
tantek
less maintenance is absolutely key to the successful scaling of the indieweb
#
KartikPrabhu
yes. I should do that if I find any free time
#
tantek
yes it's ok to make it low priority
thawr joined the channel
#
thawr
I'll get you Loqi
#
thawr
:)
#
tantek.com
edited /sidefile-antipattern (+15) "note FOAF is also a sidefile, ht: benwerd for reminding me"
(view diff)
#
gRegor`
What is admining?
#
KartikPrabhu
gRegor`: is that ad-mining or admin-ing?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
had considered setting up a service that acts as your foaf file but builds it from mf2 on each request, maybe i'll get around to it
#
gRegor`
Hah. I read it as the former. Guessing kylewm aaronpk meant it as the latter.
#
snarfed
ben_thatmustbeme: curious what you use that consumes foaf…?
#
KartikPrabhu
does any use this foaf thingie for something?
#
snarfed
jinx :P
#
gRegor`
The latter didn't even register
#
aaronpk
ad-mining lol
#
gRegor`
What is admin
#
Loqi
admin in the context of the indieweb refers to the act of and UI for signing-into, installing, configuring, updating, backing up a personal site and anything else that has nothing do with creating or reading the posts themselves https://indiewebcamp.com/admin
#
gRegor`
what is admining
#
gRegor`
admining is /admin
#
loqi.me
created /admining (+18) "prompted by gRegor` https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-27/line/1425063404794 and dfn added by gRegor`"
(view diff)
#
Loqi
slack/kevinmarks: Adminning surely?
stream7_ joined the channel
#
gRegor`
What is adminning
#
Loqi
slack/kevinmarks: Or administrating
#
gRegor`
adminning is /admin
#
loqi.me
created /adminning (+18) "prompted by gRegor` https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-27/line/1425063588918 and dfn added by gRegor`"
(view diff)
#
gRegor`
:P
#
ben_thatmustbeme
snarfed, nothing. I was told some of the foaf guys had working decentralized chat
#
KartikPrabhu
administering kevinmarks
#
ben_thatmustbeme
and wanted to dig in to how it worked
#
gRegor`
Administrativation
#
Loqi
slack/kevinmarks: Admonishing
#
tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: start with asking them to a permalink to a chat archive and to a specific chat statement.
#
Loqi
[bridgy] ts waterman replied '@t oy vey' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/sidefile (https://twitter.com/tswaterman/status/571384453882183680)
#
tantek
I have found that one of the best ways to frustrate Linked Data fans is to ask them for *actual* *(perma)LINKS* to their visible *DATA*.
#
Loqi
[bridgy] Tantek Çelik replied '“dropped my RSS […] to simplify my site’s code. I don’t want to maintain all these sidefiles.” — @kartik_prabhu (ttk.me t4_t1)' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/sidefile (https://twitter.com/t/status/571382221673603073)
#
thawr
oh, excellent, somone in slack, i can play with the output of that
#
gRegor`
Haha at this reply to tantek's tweet: https://twitter.com/tswaterman/status/571384453882183680
#
KartikPrabhu
it has begun
#
@jeremyozog
RT @fdevillamil: Definitely adopted a self hosted Laverna as my #indieweb, encrypted notebook and task manager https://laverna.cc
(twitter.com/_/status/571385168860213248)
#
aaronpk
might have to turn off the internet today
#
aaronpk
last night was distracting enough
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: it's fine. Just wanted to amplify your message of (implied) focus on efficiency, for yourself now and future self.
#
KartikPrabhu
tantek: I ma not really bothered. If a debate does pick up, gives me a reason to write said post
#
Loqi
slack/kevinmarks: Loaf was more fun than foaf <https://web.archive.org/web/20040612083424/http://loaf.cantbedone.org/about.htm> also, like vouch :bread:
#
tantek
KartikPrabhu: precisely. and any dialog helps other question whether they need all the cruft their systems have accreted.
#
tantek
s/other/others
#
Loqi
tantek meant to say: KartikPrabhu: precisely. and any dialog helps others question whether they need all the cruft their systems have accreted.
#
tantek
indieweb succeeds by making it *less work* to setup and maintain a website
#
tantek
your time is far more important than anyone's legacy plumbing
thawr joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
okay, lets see if this works...
#
ben_thatmustbeme
thawr is misbehaving
sparverius joined the channel
#
kylewm.com
edited /thawr (+1) "add a period to try and get p-summary"
(view diff)
#
Loqi
[bridgy] KyleWm replied '@t @kartik_prabhu wow, that […] is quite an elision' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/sidefile (https://twitter.com/kylewm2/status/571386813522116608)
thawr joined the channel
eburcat joined the channel
#
GWG
Tell me about thawr?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
yay, now i can finally see if the slack bit is working
#
Loqi
giggles
#
ben_thatmustbeme
just need to wait for slack/kevinmarks to talk
#
ben_thatmustbeme
GWG, basically just trying to build my own client for IRC, bridge the two rooms cleaner, plus it would be my own personal interface. ideally i'd like to roll in other services like AIM, XMPP
#
GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: Web based?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
have it all in one place so that everything below just becomes plumbing
#
ben_thatmustbeme
yes. I'm doing it in node right now
#
ben_thatmustbeme
it was surprisingly easy to get something up and running from there
#
thawr
quick and dirty irc client is quite easy
#
GWG
I'm curious to see it when it is done. I'm always looking for something to replace what I have
#
ben_thatmustbeme
it will be some time thats for sure
#
GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: I show no signs of going anywhere.
sparveri1s joined the channel
#
@kartik_prabhu
@kylewm2 but it is true in spirit. I’d get rid of Atom too if these reader things could just read HTML. cc: @t
(twitter.com/_/status/571391016286212096)
#
nicolaischwarz.de
edited /2015/Germany/Guest_List (+227) "/* Participants */"
(view diff)
#
kylewm
shots fired KartikPrabhu!
#
@ClementBethuys
RT @fdevillamil: Definitely adopted a self hosted Laverna as my #indieweb, encrypted notebook and task manager https://laverna.cc
(twitter.com/_/status/571394389156749312)
#
@clochix
IndieAuth permet aussi de s'authentifier avec sa clé PGP https://indieauth.com/gpg (détails http://indiewebcamp.com/pgp ) Peu pratique mais sympa
(twitter.com/_/status/571394580547018752)
#
Loqi
[bridgy] Tantek Çelik replied '@kylewm2 hence I replied to the source for context. The brackets […] indicate removal from a quote. More:... tantek.com/t4_t2' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/sidefile (https://twitter.com/t/status/571394350543818752)
#
Loqi
[bridgy] KyleWm replied '@kartik_prabhu @t there’s a big difference between going from 2 to 1 and going from 1 to 0 though!' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/sidefile (https://twitter.com/kylewm2/status/571394758746116096)
#
loqi.me
created /disemvoweling (+243) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek"
(view diff)
#
Loqi
slack/kevinmarks: hm, maybe mentioning slack/kevinmarks should map to <@U03QSRDJ9> in here
#
KevinMarks
that was @kevinmarks on the other side of the bridge
#
tantek
kylewm: my goal is to get PuSH 0.4 working before the social web wg f2f
#
tantek
publishing from my site
#
tantek
will that mean that your reader gets and shows posts in real time?
#
tantek
e.g. in the client browser? (via websockets?)
#
aaronpk
i noticed a console message about subscribing!
#
aaronpk
haven't actually had it open long enough to notice if things come in in realtime
#
aaronpk
kylewm++ for the PuSH debugging stuff in reader.kylewm.com
#
Loqi
kylewm has 128 karma
#
Loqi
slack/vanderwal: does this mean trolls are under the bridge?
#
GWG
Why is it I suddenly do not show up as a Facebook user of Bridgy?
#
GWG
Did I miss something?
#
KevinMarks
facebook changed their api
#
GWG
Yes.
#
GWG
Aware
#
GWG
Was there a request to reregister I missed?
#
tantek
GWG, just another brick in the wall[ed garden].
#
GWG
tantek: I saw the conversation publish is shut down. But this is backfeed.
#
tantek
ouch that's much worse
#
GWG
I thought backfeed still worked
thawr joined the channel
#
GWG
Guess I did have to
#
aaronpk
huh I don't understand how to get superfeedr to recognize my feed
#
aaronpk
let me try a different one...
#
benthatmust
i've given up on doing the push things for now, until others get it worked out
#
benthatmust
one of the fun things of this group
yakker joined the channel
#
benthatmust
get what I find most interesting working and let others play with things I don't want to deal with yet
scor joined the channel
#
Loqi
slack/ben_thatmustbeme: now to see if this works at hiding the fact that anything came off of slackbot
#
Loqi
slack/ben_thatmustbeme: slack*
#
Loqi
slack/ben_thatmustbeme: nope
thawr joined the channel
#
Loqi
slack/ben_thatmustbeme: now i'm in the room in 3 places... awkward
#
ben_thatmustbeme
haha success!
#
thawr
yay
#
Loqi
woot
#
Loqi
slack/kevinmarks: only 3?
#
KevinMarks
that's not many
#
ben_thatmustbeme
customizing my view of room
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_
I'm in at least four
#
ben_thatmustbeme
haha, well, I would have been, then i started using Quassel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
what i think will be really fun will be dumping Loqi's twitter reads in favor of pulling in the actual tweet in a small preview
#
ben_thatmustbeme
actually look like tweets in line
catsup and thawr joined the channel
#
aaronpk
okay well i think i'm notifying superfeedr of new post
#
aaronpk
but I can't really tell
#
aaronpk
woodwind hasn't said that it's sent a subscription request, even though it has discovered my hub
#
aaronpk
so superfeedr doesn't show any feeds or subscriptions in the dashboard
#
aaronpk
we definitely need more visible tooling around this PuSH stuff if it's going to work
thawr, catsup and ben_thawr joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme
sorry for all the join/parts
#
kylewm
aaronpk: this is your main h-feed that you are pushing?
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
aaronpk
it looks like woodwind hasn't subscribed yet
#
aaronpk
"PuSH verified: False"
#
kylewm
hmm, yeah
#
aaronpk
i can't tell if it tried and failed, or just didn't try yet
catsup joined the channel
#
kylewm
tried and failed
#
aaronpk
that would be good feedback to provide
#
aaronpk
it's possible I tried subscribing before I had sent a ping to superfeedr
tantek and sparverius joined the channel
#
kylewm
it will try to subscribe again on every update
#
aaronpk
every update of the feed in settings?
#
kylewm
that might be because you don't have Link headers
#
kylewm
every time you click update in the settings, or every hour
#
aaronpk
yup, superfeedr docs say to use link headers
#
aaronpk
"In the absence of HTTP [RFC2616] Link headers, subscribers MAY fall back to other methods to discover the hub(s)..."
#
aaronpk
so it's a "may" in the spec
#
kylewm
i'd assumed superfeedr would be ok with the fallback, but apparently not
#
aaronpk
okay... i will jump through the hoops to add link headers
#
kylewm
that's kind of a drag for github.io pages
#
kylewm
and shared hosting, and wherever else you can't set link headers
#
aaronpk
yup. maybe we can ask julien to support <link> tags
#
kylewm
he's been unreasonably responsive and helpful on everything iasked so far :)
catsup joined the channel
#
@aaronpk
@julien51 I was trying to publish using Superfeedr but took me a while to realize it doesn't... #push #indieweb http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/02/27/1/indieweb-push
(twitter.com/_/status/571415304435212288)
catsup joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_
Skype crashed my mac
#
aaronpk
good lord
#
aaronpk
http link headers are annoying
#
kylewm
aaronpk: are you adding them in php or nginx?
catsup joined the channel
#
aaronpk
how do I specify multiple Link headers?
#
kylewm
!tell barnabywalters woodwind says it subscribed to your feed successfully, but i'm not getting pings from you :(
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
#
aaronpk
i think maybe comma separated?
#
tantek
aaronpk - you can reverse engineer from my link header parsing code :)
#
tantek
pretty sure I wrote that a while ago as a patch for one your webmention libs
#
aaronpk
ah yeah
#
aaronpk
YAY it worked
interactivist and marclaporte joined the channel
#
gRegor`
aaronpk: Just multiple header() calls, right?
snarfed joined the channel
#
gRegor`
header('Link: xyz'); header('Link: abc');
#
kylewm
anxiously waits for aaronpk to post something
#
ben_thatmustbeme
gRegor`, that doesn't always work
#
tantek
really?
#
snarfed
GWG: re your bridgy fb account, it was fine. the problem was that you looked for it at http://brid.gy/facebook/dshanske, but the url actually uses the user id, http://brid.gy/facebook/100002356503167
#
ben_thatmustbeme
it overwrites in php
#
gRegor`
header() doesn't work with PHP run as CGI, I believe.
#
snarfed
(GWG: lookup by username is a good feature request, i'll look into it)
#
kylewm
snarfed: you already had it before, but it's broke now
#
kylewm
brid.gy/facebook/kyle.mahan used to work
#
kylewm
(iirc you added it because i kept going there and getting a 404)
#
snarfed
kylewm: lol
#
ben_thatmustbeme
thats why i have all my Link headers in one line
#
tantek
snarfed, appears the user id from graph.facebook.com/username works as brid.gy/facebook/id
#
snarfed
it was probably using the api. i also have the username stored somewhere, so i can look it up instead
#
snarfed
tantek: that's v1 api :(
#
tantek
seems to work without auth?
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
snarfed
tantek: yup. again, v1 api. dies in april.
#
tantek
whoa - didn't realize they were killing graph.facebook.com
#
aaronpk
gRegor`: for header it needs a second parameter "false"
#
snarfed
tantek: they're not. they're just killing the v1 api
#
snarfed
v2.x still use graph.facebook.com
#
gRegor`
Good to know.
#
tantek
so they're just killing the auth-less version?
#
gRegor`
I know PHP can be silly sometimes, but I didn't think it would be that silly
#
ben_thatmustbeme
was just looking that up
#
aaronpk
but one of my sites uses a framework which has its own way of dealing with headers, which doesn't support multiple
#
tantek
I wonder if there's a pattern in amount of time (years?) between API introduction, and dropping of auth-less API
#
tantek
e.g. Twitter did it when they dropped v1 APIs as well
#
tantek
aaronpk, kylewm remind me again why PuSH support in practice depends on Superfeedr?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk, i just ended up hacking in the second 'replace' param several times in the past
#
kylewm
tantek: it doesn't
#
tantek
kylewm: oh? all the recipes for 0.4 seem to force usage of superfeedr - or am I missing something.
#
aaronpk
superfeedr is just the best implemented hub right now
#
kylewm
oh /PuSH#How_To or on aaronpk's new page?
#
aaronpk
and the hub is the hardest part to implement, so that's likely to be true for a while
#
tantek
aaronpk, are there any *other* PuSH 0.4 supporting hubs?
#
aaronpk
i think google's?
#
tantek
really? even for HTML?
#
aaronpk
oh that's another good reason to use the expiration parameter... that way subscribers have to re-discover the hub after some time, so people can change hubs
#
kylewm
well... actually i can't confirm that it works for HTMl because I haven't gotten a ping from barnaby
#
aaronpk
kylewm: you could just send one for barnaby as a test :)
#
kylewm
lol, that's a good point
#
GWG
snarfed: What kylewm said.
#
GWG
snarfed: Also user page is messed up for me
#
snarfed
GWG: can you elaborate? https://www.brid.gy/facebook/100002356503167 looks ok to me
#
GWG
snarfed: /users
KevinMarks_ joined the channel
#
snarfed
btw i suspect the fb 2.x api no longer gives us username, which is why username urls like /facebook/dshanske no longer work after re-signing up
#
KevinMarks_
how broken is that
#
snarfed
GWG: hmm. https://www.brid.gy/users looks ok to me too. slow, but ok. can you describe what's wrong?
#
snarfed
KevinMarks: :P
#
kylewm
aaronpk: tantek: well crud, I sent a ping to barnaby's hub, got back a 204, but woodwind didn't get a notification
#
GWG
snarfed: It was only showing me the names of people who started with K
#
GWG
snarfed: I just did a Ctrl-Refresh. It seems fine now
#
GWG
Odd though
#
KevinMarks_
just realised slack has /feed command
#
snarfed
GWG: you probably had a ?start_name=… in your url
#
aaronpk
kylewm: does that suggest google's hub doesn't support html?
#
kylewm
that's my only guess, but why would it let you subscribe??
#
Loqi
slack/kevinmarks: well, we can look at the code
#
kylewm
i suppose it's possible that i sent a ping, it checks the source and sees it hasn't changed, and decides my ping was bogus?
#
aaronpk
could be
#
GWG
snarfed: I did not actually.
#
aaronpk
wait for him to post something then send it again :)
#
snarfed
GWG: hmm ok, sorry. not sure then
#
GWG
snarfed: Weird cache thing?
#
snarfed
maybe!
#
@t
@badosa *just* saw my typo. Apologies & thank you for the correction! Fixed on my site at least http://tantek.com/2015/055/t1/two-more-indiewebcamp-translations (ttk.me t4_t3)
(twitter.com/_/status/571425547915431937)
#
@W6AZ
Is BIG BROTHER following what this guy is up to? How about the BIG 3? He just keeps diggin' @davewiner #indieweb http://scripting.com/2015/02/27/excuseTheSalesPitch.html
(twitter.com/_/status/571425648780177409)
#
Loqi
[bridgy] Tantek Çelik replied '@badosa *just* saw my typo. Apologies &amp; thank you for the correction! Fixed on my site at least tantek.com/2015/055/t1/tw… (ttk.me t4_t3...' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page-es (https://twitter.com/t/status/571425547915431937)
#
Loqi
[bridgy] Tantek Çelik replied '@badosa *just* saw my typo. Apologies &amp; thank you for the correction! Fixed on my site at least tantek.com/2015/055/t1/tw… (ttk.me t4_t3...' to a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page-ca (https://twitter.com/t/status/571425547915431937)
#
tantek
"[…] because if lots of people used my software […]" and that's how to encourage /monoculture
#
GWG
I'm suddenly wondering if I should let people like from my site
#
tantek
GWG - via webaction buttons?
#
GWG
tantek: Actually, a 'local' like function set up as a webaction for people who have their own site. I was thinking about the point at which backfeed stops working
#
GWG
I started thinking about it when I couldn't find my bridgy facebook user page
#
GWG
More people respond on Facebook, regrettably, than directly or through other services.
#
tantek
GWG, with webactions you don't need a local like function for people who have their own site - that's the point!
#
tantek
you just add <indie-action> tags, do the JS magic to load indie-config if it is there, and you've enabled folks
#
GWG
tantek: I was thinking of the people who don't have their own site.
#
tantek
GWG, then I misread you above.
#
GWG
tantek: May have been unclear.
#
aaronpk
OMG IT WORKED!!!!
#
GWG
I'm wondering if I should modify the comment form in WordPress to allow for 'no comment'.
#
GWG
aaronpk: What did?
#
aaronpk
I liked a tweet and saw it appear instantaneously in woodwind!!!
#
tantek
kylewm ?
#
aaronpk
kylewm++
#
Loqi
kylewm has 129 karma
#
tantek
GWG - are you suggesting an explicit (No comment) button?
#
tantek
that would actually be kind of a funny webaction
#
tantek
it's like a subtle form of downvote
#
tantek
GWG, perhaps for April fools?
#
tantek
then you could create a facepile of people who clicked "no comment"
#
GWG
tantek: No. I meant to allow people to submit a like by sending a comment without text.
#
tantek
GWG, I think fallback to Twitter is good enough for that
#
tantek
rather than a local db
KevinMarks joined the channel
#
GWG
tantek: Still requires an external site.
#
tantek
true - but avoids you having to do all the auth
#
tantek
so it's faster as a fallback
#
tantek
and then you can enhance from there
#
GWG
tantek: The auth is done. WordPress has a commenting system built in already
#
aaronpk
i've seen some sites with public no-auth "like" buttons, thyey're kind of funny
#
tantek
they use cookies?
#
GWG
Going to update my user page
#
aaronpk
presumably
#
aaronpk
they call it "kudos" though
#
aaronpk
there's a wordpress plugin that will do it too
#
GWG
There often is
lukebrooker joined the channel
#
aaronpk
sweeet, spiderpig is now properly parsing urls it finds inside css files
#
tantek
oh boy.
#
aaronpk
that's something almost every alternative If ound doesn't do
#
aaronpk
maybe "properly" is an overstatement, but it works in this case :)
#
tantek
resists showing aaronpk Hixie's old CSS @import test suite.
#
aaronpk
oh god
#
tantek
would likely crash spiderpig
#
aaronpk
yeah i'm actualy just doing the url() one for now
#
tantek
as when he wrote it, he successfully crashed pretty much every browser
#
aaronpk
to find images and fonts references by the css file
#
tantek
oh sure. how's your quote escaping handling?
#
aaronpk
backs away slowly
#
tantek
not like I've had to write / maintain any of this code myself, you know, back in the late 1990s. ahem.
#
tantek
sadly it's all locked/lost in closed source :(
#
aaronpk
well this one's open source so feel free to send a PR! :-D
#
tantek
resists opening a github issue linking to Hixie's evil import test suite.
#
tantek
maybe I'll wait til *after* IWC Cambrdige
#
tantek
Cambridge even
#
aaronpk
i have one goal with this for now, so I am unlikely to make it support more than I need right now
KartikPrabhu1 joined the channel
#
tantek
speaking of goals...
#
tantek
goes back looking at old open tabs
#
tantek
what is an invitation?
#
Loqi
An invitation is an optional feature of an event post (an event with invitations), or a reply to an event post that also notifies a list of invitees that they've been invited to the event, or a special case of that, an RSVP to an event that also invites additional people to it https://indiewebcamp.com/invitation
#
tantek
oh wow how timely. kylewm *just four days ago* answered this question from last October: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-20#t1413860455506
#
kylewm
that was one of your open tabs???
#
kylewm
i meant to ask if any of you saw that invitation
#
tantek
yeah. whenever I braindump into the IRC channel far more than I wikify, I keep a permalink to it as a "wiki this at some point" reminder
#
tantek
kylewm: good q. I don't know who has homepage webmentions implemented
#
tantek
kylewm per our discussion about mf2 parsing and objects inside properties, should we be using u-invitee instead of p-invitee? to prefer the homepage URL of the person being invited?
#
aaronpk
i accept home page webmentions and display them on http://aaronparecki.com/mentions
#
tantek
(I think we should be using u-invitee instead of p-invitee but want to double check my reasoning with you before editing the wiki page since you used p-invitee recently)
#
kylewm
argh of course you're right
#
kylewm
I'll edit my example
#
kylewm
well, I guess it could go either way?
#
kylewm
I still think I would use p-author h-card, not u-author h-card
#
tantek
right - it's a good question
#
tantek
I thought URL because then you can get more information there by default
#
tantek
but how would it present?
#
tantek
or do we *require* that all *-invitee consumers look for the h-card?
#
kylewm
ahh good point, if you webmentioned me, I would be looking for my url, not (some variation of) my name
#
tantek
right!
#
kylewm
so i would want at least my url
#
tantek
another way of thinking about it is that the default human expectation when a person is being referred to is to see their name rather than their URL.
#
KevinMarks_
I have homepage webmentions
#
KevinMarks_
via webmention.herokuapp.com
#
tantek
however when you phrase it as a "what would/should the webmention receiver do with the *-invitee?" then it makes more sense to use u-invitee
#
aaronpk
why is this a special case?
#
tantek
of homepage webmentions?
#
aaronpk
I already have written code that has to look for u-* and h-* u-*
#
aaronpk
like when looking at the in-reply-to property
#
tantek
aaronpk - the goal is to *simplify* consuming code
#
aaronpk
it might be u-in-reply-to but might also be p-in-reply-to h-cite
#
aaronpk
yeah i'd love it if I didn't have to check both, but people are publishing both
#
tantek
aaronpk - that's exactly why we fixed it
#
tantek
to always use u-in-reply-to instead
loic_m joined the channel
#
aaronpk
wait what since when do we always use u-in-reply-to?
#
tantek
and started updating the wiki accordingly
#
aaronpk
oh right. but I still have to check if the "in-reply-to" property is a plain string or is an object, and if it's an object, then use the "value" property
#
tantek
no the point is to avoid having to do that
#
tantek
if publishers always use u-in-reply-to
#
tantek
then it will always have a URL, even when there's an embedded h-cite
#
kylewm
you'd still have to do what aaronpk said
#
tantek
the point is that "u-in-reply-to h-cite" will get the "value" of the "u-url" property of the h-cite if any
#
tantek
kylewm: you're right
#
aaronpk
but that appears in my code as "in-reply-to": [{...hcite object...}] instead of "in-reply-to":"string"
#
tantek
that's a general thing about any property that could have an embedded object
#
tantek
aaronpk - hopefully with a "value" key inside that object also
#
aaronpk
the new parsing rule is good though because that is something that can be made generic enough to be handled by something like barnaby's mf-cleaner
#
aaronpk
because it doesn't require knowledge of the nested object vocab
#
tantek
that's the idea
#
KevinMarks_
so <details><summary> is a browser native outliner?
#
aaronpk
e.g. I could make a function called get_property_value($obj,$key) which does the logic of "if $obj->$key is a string then return it, otherwise if $obj->key is an object, return $obj->$key->value"
#
tantek
aaronpk yes!
#
aaronpk
(very ugly rough pseudocode)
#
aaronpk
whoa, google registered .dev and is keeping it all to themselves http://sealedabstract.com/rants/google-our-patron-saint-of-the-closed-web/
#
sparverius
i kind of view all tlds that arent in the core ICANN set as not really real and also dumb
#
sparverius
that may be an unfair/primitive view of 'em. i should really get something into that blockchain based dns.
jacus joined the channel
#
sparverius
except for clownpenis.fart. i want clownpenis.fart
#
KevinMarks_
admist he got mixes.house
gRegor` joined the channel
#
kylewm
google just bought .app too
#
aaronpk
they're letting other people register those though
#
aaronpk
like a normal registrar
#
aaronpk
apparently all .blog domains will be powered by blogger
Reykjavik joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_
why .app and not .apk ?
#
GWG
I just went down the rabbit hole of features not documented anywhere but WordPress tickets.
wolftune, KevinMarks and benwerd joined the channel
#
KevinMarks_
hm, this <details><sumamry> think seems ideal for unmung
#
tantek
wow WTF .dev GOOGLE!
#
aaronpk
i'm keeping my .dev to myself
#
tantek
dangit - does this threaten my use of .dev?
#
tantek
like if I accidentally share a .dev link to someone
#
aaronpk
just means if google ever launches a product called "tantek" you won't be able to see the dev website for it
#
tantek
instead of a .com link
#
tantek
and they go to it
#
tantek
then Google MITM them?
#
aaronpk
oh yeah it depends on what google does with un-registered .dev domains
#
aaronpk
most TLDs don't resolve un-registered ones, but some of them serve you up a splash page about the registrar
#
tantek
hey benwerd, you should apply for .known :P
#
aaronpk
lol that seems like a great use of $185,000
#
tantek
as in, I can't believe new blog hosts won't do this
#
tantek
in that article it says google applied for .blog already, for blogger
#
tantek
motive: usability! "By contrast, our application for the .blog TLD describes a new way of automatically linking new second level domains to blogs on our Blogger platform – this approach eliminates the need for any technical configuration on the part of the user and thus makes the domain name more user friendly"
#
KevinMarks_
and they justify it with .mil and .edu
#
aaronpk
yes, the same way *.withknown.com blogs work right now
#
aaronpk
problem is i bet you won't be able to point your *.blog site somewhere else
#
aaronpk
s/site/domain
#
Loqi
aaronpk meant to say: problem is i bet you won't be able to point your *.blog domain somewhere else
#
aaronpk
this is Bad™
#
KevinMarks_
(check in safari or chrome - FF doesn't support it yet)
upper- joined the channel
#
aaronpk
KevinMarks_: that's crazy, the browser is doing the collapsing thing?
#
KevinMarks_
yes, it's the stuff tantek mentione yesterday as a trick for longdesc
#
aaronpk
that's crazy. i feel like it's 1999 and i'm just discovering that you can add borders to things with css
#
KevinMarks_
needs a polyfil for moz etc
#
KevinMarks_
it does break the fragmention code though, as fragmention won't open a hidden node
snarfed joined the channel
#
tantek
is this worthy amplifying? http://sealedabstract.com/rants/google-our-patron-saint-of-the-closed-web/ or maybe wait til Monday to do so?
#
tantek
seems interesting both in the "threat to indieweb" and "look Google cares about blog hosting UX" aspects
#
snarfed
tantek: i'm biased, but it seemed pretty overwrought to me
#
snarfed
it sucks that they don't want to allow registration of .dev domains, and the internal-only plan seems weird and dumb
#
snarfed
...and there may be a case to be made that they hurt the open web in some ways, maybe even net overall
#
snarfed
...but not opening .dev and limiting .blog to blogger ain't that case
#
aaronpk
limiting .blog to blogger is certainly hurting the open web
#
snarfed
aaronpk: fair, in the specific case that you can't switch providers
#
aaronpk
yes that's the whole point
#
aaronpk
domains should not be tied to hosting
#
aaronpk
and now they will be
#
snarfed
i take that point, but the blog post makes way way bigger conclusions
#
snarfed
but eh. subjective.
#
aaronpk
the .dev thing sucks but isn't the end of the world
#
snarfed
exactly
#
aaronpk
it's just kind of arrogant
#
KevinMarks_
other new tld's have "who can register" rules too, don't they?
#
KevinMarks_
like .ceo
#
snarfed
that's eligibility though, not migration
#
KevinMarks_
so I get epeus.blog ?
#
snarfed
maybe?
#
aaronpk
i'll totally register aaronpk.blog and have one blog post on blogger that points to my site :P
#
KevinMarks_
hm, if I put the p-summary in summary and the e-content in details?
#
KevinMarks_
blogger lets you host redirects
#
pdurbin
tantek_: seems interesting. "bookmarked"
wolftune joined the channel