#indiewebcamp 2015-02-23

2015-02-23 UTC
awolf, willnorris and lukebrooker joined the channel
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acegiak
morning, all
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GWG
Morning, acegiak.
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GWG
I have a little side project
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GWG
I cleaned up my previous pull request.
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GWG
Hoping to get this in.
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GWG
To auto-accept brid.gy and such
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acegiak
I like it
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acegiak
the other thing I'd like to see is auto-accepting from people on my blogroll
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acegiak
actually, what I should do is make it populate your domain whitelist with people from my blogroll and the people in their xfn network
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GWG
You want linkbacks only or comments too
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GWG
I added a pre_linkback_approved to just target linkbacks
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acegiak
I'll look at it later
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acegiak
at the moment I don't mind maually approving comments
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GWG
But you should be able to hook onto it, or add into the options field.
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GWG
Assuming pfefferle approves it.
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GWG
The original version was messy
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GWG
I rewrote it. I
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acegiak
wait, it's semantic-linkbacks
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GWG
Yes
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GWG
You co-authored it, I believe
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acegiak
oh I see. pfefferle's fork
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acegiak
I just don't understand github fully
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GWG
His is 3 commits ahead of yours
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GWG
And 2 commits behind yours
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GWG
I'm working on getting better at git, along with everything else.
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GWG
That and not driving people crazy with odd whitespace in my code.
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acegiak
oh. hmmm
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acegiak
that merge will be fun
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GWG
acegiak: For some reason, both snarfed and pfefferle have a philosophy about adding settings to their work.
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GWG
So, I hid this one
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GWG
It appears on the discussion page.
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acegiak
they think you shkuldnt need settings?
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acegiak
i mean you could avoid needing settings in this situation by using a links category as your whitelist
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GWG
acegiak: It's a simplicity thing.
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GWG
I understand the rationale.
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GWG
I try to minimize them as much as possible.
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GWG
So, for example, I swapped a setting in Post Kinds for a declaration of theme support.
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GWG
It's the "Just Works" philosophy.
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acegiak
afk a bit
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GWG
Considering how long the list of Settings sub-pages can be if you have a lot of plugins, I get it
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aaronpk
only a few hours in to caseorganic.com running wordpress and already getting tons of pingback spam
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GWG
aaronpk: May I recommend a plugin?
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aaronpk
other than akismet?
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GWG
Akismet is spam filtering.
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aaronpk
does that not filter pingbacks?
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aaronpk
oh wait these may have been regular comment spam
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GWG
Simple Trackback Validation
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GWG
It does something Akismet doesn't do.
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GWG
It checks the IP address of the linkback against the IP address of the web server it supposedly came from.
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GWG
I find that flags a lot of garbage
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acegiak
gwg: your whitelist should be a separate plugin
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acegiak
semantic linkbacks should have hooks allowing other plugins to autoapprove or autotrash
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GWG
I thought about that, but I'd still like the hook.
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GWG
The comment approved hook is at a very different place in the chain of events.
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acegiak
yeah no a hook has to be added
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GWG
Removing the domain function would be easy, leaving the rest
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GWG
Hooks are good, either way. I need more hooks.
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aaronpk
kylewm: it appears Woodwind is not de-duping posts in a stream by looking at redirects?
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kylewm
aaronpk: if an entry is in two feeds, it'll appear twice, is that what you mean?
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aaronpk
no, all of caseorganic.com posts have new URLs
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aaronpk
but the old URLs are sending redirects to the new ones
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aaronpk
it found all the new URLs, but the old ones are still appearing in the stream as their own posts
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kylewm
no, it doesn't look at permalink pages at all, just the h-feed
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aaronpk
it's an interesting problem
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aaronpk
it's going to happen to me as well when I change URL schemes
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GWG
aaronpk: What are you changing to?
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kylewm
not totally unrelated, it's difficult to tell if a post has been deleted, or if it's just fallen off the bottom of an h-feed
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aaronpk
yeah deleted posts is tricky
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aaronpk
making an HTTP request to a deleted page should return HTTP 410
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aaronpk
but polling URLs to find if they're deleted seems unsustainable
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kylewm
yeah, might be reasonable to check the 10 latest posts per feed, once a day, or something
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aaronpk
I'd consider checking posts that were recently viewed
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kylewm
it's especially nefarious with PuSH because you don't even have a couple minute window
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aaronpk
I wonder if an extension to PuSH could solve this...
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aaronpk
here's an idea maybe
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aaronpk
if you subscribe to the topic "http://aaronparecki.com", you'll get pings when my home page feed changes
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aaronpk
if I delete a post (whether or not it's on the home page), I could also send a ping to the hub with the same topic
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aaronpk
but also include a specific URL that changed
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aaronpk
you'd then go fetch that URL and see the 410
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aaronpk
it would also work for updates that way
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aaronpk
wow tue superfeedr docs are dense
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aaronpk
no wonder nobody understands how this stuff works. it seems really complicated.
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aaronpk
i thought I remembered seeing a really simple explanation of PuSH somewhere
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GWG
aaronpk: Who is maintaining the spec for PuSH?
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GWG
And is that person(s) active anywhere?
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aaronpk
julien51, as well as brad fitzpatrick and brett slatkin (both were at IWC PDX 2013)
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aaronpk
it's not necessarily the spec that needs updating, the spec actually is quite generic
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aaronpk
anyway what I was looking for is the payload that the hub sends to subscribers when the feed updates
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aaronpk
IIRC it includes pretty much only the "hub.topic" URL
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aaronpk
I was thinking it could optionally include "hub.url" pointing to a single URL that changed, which may not be listed on the topic URL anymore (assuming the topic URL is a feed showing the latest N things)
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kylewm
the content of the ping is actually unspecified. it can be anything
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aaronpk
yeah that's what I gathered from the spec
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aaronpk
which seems odd
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aaronpk
also I couldn't find docs on superfeedr for what the ping contains
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aaronpk
that's between publisher and hub. i'm talking about between hub and subscriber.
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aaronpk
I didn't realize PuSH 0.4 could have any arbitrary body and just required two Link headers
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aaronpk
now I'm tempted to write up a profile of PuSH 0.4 (would totally count as being PuSH 0.4) but specifying this stuff a little more concretely
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aaronpk
I feel like this has the same problem as OAuth 2.0
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GWG
aaronpk: I'd enjoy reading it
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ben_thatmustbeme
Votes on user stories in socialwg brought up an interesting idea. I had thought of adding polling before but I think polling, q &a , and events may all be I generalized to a single type
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ben_thatmustbeme
Events are just polls where the answers are "attending" our not. But if you generalize it to a post that can list a set of expected optional responses
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ben_thatmustbeme
And also maybe an optional "accepts new values" option
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ben_thatmustbeme
So you list "attending" & "not attending" as the possible responses. But you allow people to respond with new values "unlikely" "will try" etc
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aaronpk
i had a draft post i was working on a while ago about that
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aaronpk
i don't think i ever published it
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aaronpk
but the ideas ended up resulting in micropub
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ben_thatmustbeme
And every new option gets added to the list
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aaronpk
it turns out we already have a pretty good way of representing Q/A, polls, etc on the web... HTML forms!
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aaronpk
so you can just make an HTML form for your poll, listing out the options you want or whatever, and people can submit the form! except instead of submitting it to you, it can first post to their site
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ben_thatmustbeme
A form anyone can post to. You want to see where the responses are from
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@iamaegibson
trying to test quill and i get this "Your endpoint did not return a Location header." what am I doing wrong #indieweb?
(twitter.com/_/status/569716519493509120)
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@aaronpk
@iamaegibson Did you read the section on how you're supposed to respond to a Micropub request? https://quill.p3k.io/creating-a-micropub-endpoint#the-response #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/569716928656252929)
KartikPrabhu, lukebrooker, benwerd, pauloppenheim, awolf, cweiske, elima_, michielbdejong, tantek, elf-pavlik, Jihaisse, benwerd_, KevinMarks, iandevlin, LauraJ, loic_m, frzn, friedcell, alanpearce, krendil, Sebastien-L, eschnou and interactivist joined the channel
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channy.creation.net
created /WordPress-ko (+8379) "/* initial update */"
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@andkjaer
Social Media Jobs: Move, Brigade Marketing, Snapchat >> http://www.adweek.com/socialtimes/?p=615671&utm_content=buffer6e176&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #SocialMedia Tip from Nadine Cheung. #SelfPublish #IndieAuth…
(twitter.com/_/status/569798171360149504)
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GWG
Morning
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Loqi
petermolnar: kylewm left you a message on 2/18 at 11:26am: i sympathize about the extra space copied from api key/secret. i've done that more times than is reasonable.
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petermolnar
GWG I've seen the weekly updates about the wiki, including the many many types of indieweb taxonomy in WordPress Data, and I have to say, I might not get some of them; I mean, for example, why fav and like and bookmark? is that not redundant?
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GWG
petermolnar: To each their own.
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GWG
People use them. Up to the user to decide what works for their site.
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petermolnar
I think it's then just some mindset difference, that I would like to shift my things to a more simple setup, and now I'd have to deal with tags, categories, post types and indieweb taxonomy and it kind of getting a bit too much for me; I'm doing more work on the markup and the meta than on actual content and that is definitely not a good sign
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GWG
petermolnar: I have a feature to choose which ones are enabled
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petermolnar
oh, this is not about the plugin :)
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petermolnar
it's just whining the massive complexity wordpress & the metadata is headed for
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petermolnar
s/whining/whining about
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Loqi
petermolnar meant to say: it's just whining about the massive complexity wordpress & the metadata is headed for
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notizblog.org
edited /User:Notizblog.org (-97) "/* working on/selfdogfooding */"
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GWG
petermolnar: I agree to a point. I don't use categories much. But disabling them is difficult
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petermolnar
that do makes sense then; indieweb taxonomy + tags would indeed make a better structure then post formats + categories
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petermolnar
did you think of some migrator/mirror plugin? for example, to automatically ( to old posts as well ) add 'photo' to image type posts
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GWG
Not specifically. I did it myself for most.
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@rhiaro
"Surveillance is bad." "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!" Still figuring out how to deal with this. Anyone link to good discussions? Cc #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/569880976144404481)
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ben_thatmustbeme
wonders if we should have a page for all the "vendor" extensions for micropub being used. would be nice to know what to add support for. I want to ensure interoperability of my clients
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ben_thatmustbeme
I know aaronpk has begun using things like p3k-consume p3k-type, etc. wonder what he uses for weight
elf-pavlik, interactivist, pfefferle, gRegor`, Sebastien-L, loic_m and thehighfiveghost joined the channel
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gRegor`
Morning, indieweb
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loqi.me
created /this_bullshit (+52) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek"
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waterpigs.co.uk
edited /Docker (+498) "/* Issues */ added some issues noted after reading about and experimenting with Docker"
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kylewm.com
edited /Woodwind (+89) "add websockets-based live updates"
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snarfed
KevinMarks: re writing a journalist-friendly article about how the FB API changes have hurt us...not sure if it'd be worthwhile, but maybe!
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snarfed
KevinMarks: the tl;dr is, if a user authed an app w/the 1.0 API, the app could read (and like, comment on) anyone else's posts that the user could see. the 2.0 API only lets the app read/write the user's own posts, for the most part.
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snarfed
i actually think it's a good policy change. e.g. if i post something on FB for just my friends, i definitely don't necessarily intend that arbitrary apps can see it too
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snarfed
but the fallout is definitely still sad
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GWG
Afternoon.
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gRegor`
o/ GWG
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GWG
I've decided to try to accomplish something today.
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gRegor`
How goes the WordPress indieweb?
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aaronpk
gRegor`: caseorganic.com is on wordpress now!
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gRegor`
Ooh! Lemme look
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aaronpk
my microformats2 import plugin is complete!
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gRegor`
"It's alive!"
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gRegor`
Looks great!
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gRegor`
What theme did you use?
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aaronpk
i didn't do anything with hte themes
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aaronpk
i just imported the data
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aaronpk
it's all caseorganic now!
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gRegor`
Cool
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GWG
aaronpk: How did caseorganic decide on p3k initially?
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gRegor`
Do the WordPress webmention plugins rely on the XMLRPC endpoint?
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GWG
gRegor`: No.
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gRegor`
And if so, do they require pingback?
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gRegor`
I recommend this plugin to disable pingback: https://wordpress.org/plugins/disable-xml-rpc-pingback/
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aaronpk
why do you need a plugin to disable pingback? there's a checkbox in settings for it
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GWG
The pingbacks setting does need to be enabled, but not the XMLRPC component
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aaronpk
GWG: is that documented on the wiki somewhere?
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aaronpk
sounds like a good addition to the wordpress getting started page
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gRegor`
scratches head. I don't follow that GWG
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GWG
aaronpk: Which?
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aaronpk
"The pingbacks setting does need to be enabled, but not the XMLRPC component"
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gRegor`
aaronpk: Hm, not familiar with that checkbox. I think this just moves it up one level, instead of doing a DB check to see if pingbacks are allowed, it just responds to pingback saying the server doesn't support it.
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GWG
gRegor`: Exactly, the setting would turn off all types of Linkbacks. Telling the XMLRPC component to not accept pings is a different level
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gRegor`
No, the plugin disabled pingback.ping XMLRPC method
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gRegor`
s/disabled/disables/
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Loqi
gRegor` meant to say: No, the plugin disables pingback.ping XMLRPC method
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gRegor`
and pingback.extensions.getPingbacks, and removes the X-Pingback header
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tantek
we need venues for HWC this week!
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tantek
working on SF
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tantek
aaronpk, dietrich PDX HWC?
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jonnybarnes
hey tantek
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GWG
I will volunteer my house as a NYC venue, and myself as the sole attendee.
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aaronpk
time flies!
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tantek
GWG - do it!!
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aaronpk
yeah I can do HWC at esripdx this week
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GWG
tantek: I just did.
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tantek
GWG, I didn't see the wiki edit ;)
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jonnybarnes
so I had a look at wikipedia, and rel=canonical link for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/{page} is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/{page}
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tantek
oh dear
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tantek
that's no good
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jonnybarnes
so should we leave the IWC pages as they are?
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tantek
jonnybarnes: we should prefer https
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jonnybarnes
or link to https://en.... anway?
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tantek
since wikipedia always redirects to it
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GWG
tantek: That will have to wait
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tantek
right - per their own redirect policy
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dietrich
tantek, aaronpk: i'm in out of town this week
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tantek
jonnybarnes: i.e. their *action* (redirect) overrides their *words* (rel=canonical markup claim)
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jonnybarnes
I have no idea where to raise an issue with wikipedia about that, are they on github?
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aaronpk
dietrich: "i'm in out of town"?
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GWG
Anyone have an example of a venue page handy?
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GWG
Never done venue
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tantek
what is a venue?
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Loqi
A venue is a named location or address/geo that is typically used for checkins https://indiewebcamp.com/venue
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dietrich
aaronpk: i... have problems staying in this dimension?
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tantek
SF location @MozSF
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tantek.com
edited /events/2015-02-25-homebrew-website-club (-5) "SF location confirmed @MozSF, RSVP"
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GWG
Have to decide how to venue in Wordpress
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tantek
GWG, what's the use case you're trying to solve?
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GWG
Check in and rsvp
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tantek
RSVP doesn't need venue
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GWG
Tantek, if I am hosting an HWC by myself, don't I need a venue?
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tantek
GWG, for the HWC use-case you can start with using just the wiki
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tantek
like Chicago does (did?)
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tantek
don't put so many steps in front of yourself for the first time you do something
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GWG
I'm not building something today. Just thinking
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tantek
keep it minimal and simple and get it done ASAP. then learn and iterate.
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tantek
doing, reflecting, iteration is a faster way of solving the problem than thinking a lot about it
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GWG
I rsvped to a previous HWC
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tantek
sure for that you don't need a venue on your site
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GWG
Manually. Want to iterate to less manually.
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tantek
GWG, keep doing it manually until it hurts
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GWG
My exercise is usually how do I build it in my system?
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tantek
folks are going to be looking it soon from MozPDX
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aaronpk
whoever keeps setting up the future HWC pages is copying from a really old version... because i always have to keep removing the "cancelled tonight" message from pdx
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tantek
checks history ;)
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tantek
thanks gRegor` for setting up the future HWC pages :)
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gRegor`
np
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gRegor`
I linked the homepage blurb to /next-hwc so in the future we just need to update the dates in the text and maybe the locations.
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gRegor`
(and /next-hwc of course)
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tantek
that helps!
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gregorlove.com
edited /events/2015-02-11-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* RSVP */ KartikPrabhu was there even if he's too lazy to rsvp ;)"
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tantek
alright, now that we have venues confirmed for HWC, let's get some indie events posted!
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loqi.me
created /withings (+121) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by aaronpk"
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KartikPrabhu
oh yeah that. sorry :P
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KartikPrabhu
lazy/busy
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aaronpk
it's still too hard for me to post events
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aaronpk
is hoping someone with magic design/js skills will make a good event posting UI for micropub
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tantek
!tell benwerd, kylewm could you post an indie event and FB POSSE copy for this week's HWC meetup in SF? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-02-25-homebrew-website-club#URLs Thanks!
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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loqi.me
created /weight (+116) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by aaronpk"
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tantek
aaronpk - an alternative is a "plain text" UI for entering events
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aaronpk
that's why i have right now
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tantek
like a picoformat / microsyntax
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tantek
per markdown methodology (not markdown syntax)
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tantek
e.g. (off the top of my head)
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tantek
This Wednesday, 17:30-19:30 Homebrew Website Club Meetup @ESRIPDX
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gregorlove.com
edited /events/2015-03-25-homebrew-website-club (+59) "No Chicago meetup this week"
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aaronpk
i think as long as you use typical language a parser could do a reasonable job with that
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gRegor`
What is picoformat?
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tantek
but that's something I might type - the key is to figure out what *YOU* would naturally type as a brief english description of an event
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tantek
picoformat is /microsyntax
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loqi.me
created /picoformat (+24) "prompted by gRegor` https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-02-23/line/1424719154607 and dfn added by tantek"
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gRegor`
KartikPrabhu: I know you've been busy. Only teasing. :)
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KartikPrabhu
i know :D
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KartikPrabhu
I won't rsvp for this weeks too ;)
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blog.andrewshell.org
edited /River4 (+105) "Adding another river4 example"
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tantek
hey are reviews anywhere in the user stories? e.g. http://www.yelp.com/biz/hipstermaid-mountain-view-2
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tantek
one thing I realized while reading that, it's got use-cases both for indieweb publishing (individual reviews, comments, likes)
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tantek
as well as indie readers / aggregators
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tantek
e.g. would love to see a time series charting of the ratings #s for any given business
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tantek
such timeseries would also put overall average review more in context
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blog.andrewshell.org
edited /User:Blog.Andrewshell.Org (-245) "Moved to correct location"
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