#indiewebcamp 2014-12-31

2014-12-31 UTC
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snarfed aww. kind of but not entirely. sorry, didn't mean it backhanded :P
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kylewm no no I didn't take it that way
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snarfed i aso like https://kylewm.com/2014/12/like-of-dusty-twitter-com-ifwinterends-status-549953215140466689 as an example of a like of a non-public post
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snarfed shows that you liked it but doesn't leak any content
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kylewm ohhh, interesting, i also don't think that was intentional
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GWG kylewm: Sorry for the delay. Jetpack requires a Wordpress.com account, even for features that shouldn't need any account
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kylewm snarfed: that raises an interesting point though; I wonder what would happen if i tried to RT a private post
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snarfed kylewm: i think you can't
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kylewm I think it would post on my site just fine (which is probably wrong) and error out on the API call
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kylewm oh yeah, that is leaky https://kylewm.com/2014/12/repost-of-dusty-twitter-com-ifwinterends-status-466363913890967552
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kylewm that url design sucks too...
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GWG I often like your design
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kylewm thanks GWG :)
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kylewm GWG: so with the jetpack thing, is it becoming more integral to wordpress.org?
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GWG You still have the option of not installing it
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GWG http://jetpack.me/
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GWG Look at what is in it
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kylewm so you have the option but you miss out on a lot of features
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kylewm basically?
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GWG There is a developer who took the Jetpack stuff and removed the dependency on having a Wordpress.com account, for example
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kylewm GWG: that seems good? sorry i'm having trouble following the thread of " Wordpress.com is trying to take over Wordpress.org"
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GWG kylewm: Basically, there is this giant plugin, that requires a third-party service, even though most of the features do not.
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GWG I feel like they could be developing some of these things as core
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@kevinmarks "@mechapoetic: love how wordpress sends me emails asking me to approve my own pingbacks" #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/550083566483537920)
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GWG I'm wondering if anyone is worried that marking up content will make them at risk for inappropriate scraping
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tantek GWG - scrapers gonna scrape. They're too lazy to bother with proper parsing. So quite the opposite. The expected effect of markup on that risk vector is negligible if anything.
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GWG tantek: I'm just preparing my pro-IWC arguments
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GWG I know someone will be asking about protecting their articles
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tantek if people are looking for excuses to be afraid of things, they can find plenty
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tantek it's an attitude thing, can't really help hypochondriacs / chicken-littlers in that regard.
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tantek no matter what you say they'll find something to freak out about.
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GWG I'm a worrier. I hope it is in moderation
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tantek GWG - as long as it doesn't freeze you into inaction, you're probably ok ;)
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danlyke GWG - what's your model for misuse? My hope is that marking up my content will make it easier to scrape, therefore easier for searches and intelligent links, etc.
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tantek danlyke - exactly - glass is half full :)
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danlyke yeah, anything else is essentially DRM through obscurity. I mean, I could render to PNGs and serve that up, but... eeewww.
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danlyke Though I have been thinking about "I only want to show this content to certain people".
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gRegor` what is private post?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "private post" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=private+post
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danlyke gRegor` I already have some of my source files marked up with "don't show this", I should stuff that into a database, give it a token and some sort of auth for serving it up, and attempt to load the elided parts of the document via JavaScript after load. If I choose to stay with this "render everything to static pages" model...
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gRegor` Cool
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gregorlove.com created /private_post (+27) "r" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu GWG it is impossible for any thing on the internet to be protected from download in a fool-proof way. Having a clear copyright statement and understanding it is the only way
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GWG danlyke: Posted without attribution
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danlyke GWG yeah, republishing and faking stuff is a thing. Hopefully whatever discovery/search mechanism we end up building will be better at sourcing stuff than Google is.
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tantek aside: have already updated CASSIS with the new utility functions I needed for my "like" posts implementation
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tantek (including one bug fix in year-day handling!)
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bear has anyone seen this new site: http://bigboringsystem.com/post/post!1419987064-7b
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Loqi bear: GWG left you a message 5 days, 1 hour ago: Looking at nginx cipher list, RC4 is there
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KartikPrabhu thoughts wrt to response-context and copyright. If I "like" a photo I'd want to display it is the response-context on my site, but this might be restricted by copyright (maybe it is under fair-use but who knows). Should response-context do some sort of license-discovery to avoid reproducing copy-righted images?
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bear i've just successfully out-niced the person
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bear he is apologizing
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GWG bear: You are a very nice person.
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KartikPrabhu bear: link to the discussion?
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bear twitter replied that my report is not a violation of their TOS... *sigh*
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KartikPrabhu aah
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@anant_ebooks Website Club 18:30 indieweb: silo: ttk.me t4SD3. (twitter.com/_/status/550114503309144064)
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tantek wat
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tantek at least they included my permashortcitation :P
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tantek ^^^ GWG *that* is how you deal with people scraping/copying your content - you seed it with watermark text codes like permashort citations that all link / lead back to your site
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GWG tantek: I've gotten to shortlinks...
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GWG Haven't gotten to permashort citations
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GWG Since I installed a shortener based on your work, I have to see if I can get it to generate them
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kylewm.com moved /gittip to /Gratipay "Gittip was rebranded as Gratipay Sept 2014"
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kylewm.com created /Gittip (+22) "Redirected page to [[Gratipay]]" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /Gratipay (+18) "s/gittip/Gratipay" (view diff)
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tantek I'm wondering if it makes sense to keep track on a post when was the last time it deliberately sent webmentions to any links inside.
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tantek does anyone here keep data like that with their posts storage? when that post last sent webmentions for its links?
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KartikPrabhu i used to do it in my previous webmention sending scheme
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KartikPrabhu i.e I kept track of the links i sent mentions to, the idea being to send mentions to new links of the post was edited
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KartikPrabhu I ditched that for plumbing reasons but i still think it is useful
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@rurasyqinula RT @t: @DocPop I’ll see your “blog more”, raise you with: Own your notes, stop throwing them @Twitter. http://indiewebcamp.com/ownyourdata (ttk.me t4Zt3) (twitter.com/_/status/550153149701689344)
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@rurasyqinula RT @t: @DocPop says right there on the home page @4c4d gave you: Beyond Blogging and Decentralization http://indiewebcamp.com/#Beyond_Blogging_and_Decentralization (ttk.me t4Zt2) (twitter.com/_/status/550153152604164097)
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@rurasyqinula RT @t: #indieweb "likes": notification design -> text design -> hypertext design -> markup code: http://indiewebcamp.com/like#Brainstorming (ttk.me t4Zt1) (twitter.com/_/status/550153155569528832)
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@rurasyqinula RT @t: documented some existing notifications: http://indiewebcamp.com/notification#Platform_Examples & #indieweb likes design ideas: http://indiewebcamp.com/like#Brainstorming (ttk.me t4Zs1) (twitter.com/_/status/550153158836895747)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: that makes a lot of sense - keeping track which links you pinged so you don't have to reping them.
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Loqi [bridgy] Canten ERSAHAN favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ownyourdata (https://twitter.com/t/status/549748369766490112)
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Loqi [bridgy] Canten ERSAHAN retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/#Beyond_Blogging_and_Decentralization (https://twitter.com/rurasyqinula/status/550153152604164097)
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Loqi [bridgy] Canten ERSAHAN favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#Brainstorming (https://twitter.com/t/status/549154742413574144)
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Loqi [bridgy] Canten ERSAHAN favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/notification#Platform_Examples (https://twitter.com/t/status/549154742413574144)
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Loqi [bridgy] Canten ERSAHAN favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/#Beyond_Blogging_and_Decentralization (https://twitter.com/t/status/549746516425191424)
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Loqi [bridgy] Canten ERSAHAN retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#Brainstorming (https://twitter.com/rurasyqinula/status/550153155569528832)
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Loqi [bridgy] Canten ERSAHAN favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#Brainstorming (https://twitter.com/t/status/549654017421631488)
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Loqi [bridgy] Canten ERSAHAN retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ownyourdata (https://twitter.com/rurasyqinula/status/550153149701689344)
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Loqi [bridgy] Canten ERSAHAN retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/like#Brainstorming (https://twitter.com/rurasyqinula/status/550153158836895747)
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Loqi [bridgy] Canten ERSAHAN retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/notification#Platform_Examples (https://twitter.com/rurasyqinula/status/550153158836895747)
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tantek whoa
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KartikPrabhu tantek: yes. that was my initial idea but my autosend for webmentions broke and so currently I have ditched that. I hope to go back once I get auto-sending running again
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KartikPrabhu someone really likes your tweets tantek
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kylewm tantek: cweiske has thing like that, but going even further, where you could mouseover a link and see the send history for it, success/failure etc
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tantek neat!
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tantek alright, time to start trying a few manual likes
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: ooo thats sounds nifty!
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: you've seen it haven't you? I can't find the screenshots now :(
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kylewm ah ha, http://fotostore.cweiske.de/screenshots/2014-03-25%20stapibas%20linkback%20info.png
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kylewm http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-25#t1395780897000
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: no i don;t recall seeing this. but it i awesome. one could also add a button to send a mention!
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@kevinmarks @jaythenerdkid how does that work? (I don't know Tumblr well enough, but there might be an #Indieweb answer) (twitter.com/_/status/550221556387831808)
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@_Dispal Movimiento IndieWeb: redescentralizando Internet http://cyborgcultura.ticbeat.com/movimiento-indieweb-redescentralizando-internet/ vía @TICbeat (twitter.com/_/status/550270195575431168)
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@StoryAlley Still need Sci-Fi, Kids, Paranormal, Historical, & Non-fiction books to feature. http://storytelleralley.com/?q=content/were-looking-few-good-authors #indieauth #indieauthor #smallpress (twitter.com/_/status/550282632559603714)
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@KNRwrites RT @StoryAlley: Still need Sci-Fi, Kids, Paranormal, Historical, & Non-fiction books to feature. http://storytelleralley.com/?q=content/were-looking-few-good-authors #indieauth #indieau… (twitter.com/_/status/550282956309532672)
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@dodgingstones RT @StoryAlley: Still need Sci-Fi, Kids, Paranormal, Historical, & Non-fiction books to feature. http://storytelleralley.com/?q=content/were-looking-few-good-authors #indieauth #indieau… (twitter.com/_/status/550284384050638848)
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@walawalawaka "30. You Will Stop Selling People as Products" http://getprismatic.com/story/1419933890381?share=Mjg3Nzk1.MTQxOTkzMzg5MDM4MQ.Rss6syEivVhPV1_T5dG2B7TleXI #aralbalkan #indieweb #indiephone #spyware (twitter.com/_/status/550284461993377793)
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@brennannovak @hugoroyd also, rad to have you on the #IndieWeb using @withknown :) (twitter.com/_/status/550288253954560001)
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@hugoroyd @brennannovak yes, me too, that's one of the reasons why @withknown rocks: indieweb technos for the rest of us ;-) (twitter.com/_/status/550288731664822272)
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@Miro382 new version of My city 0.08 changelog: https://www.facebook.com/mycitygamem https://apps.facebook.com/my_city_m/?fb_source=fbpage #gamedev #indieweb #unity3d https://twitter.com/Miro382/status/550312103442407424/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/550312103442407424)
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@TheIndieSloth RT @Miro382: new version of My city 0.08 changelog: https://www.facebook.com/mycitygamem https://apps.facebook.com/my_city_m/?fb_source=fbpage #gamedev #indieweb #unity3d http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/550312150020145153)
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@indiegamesdevel RT @Miro382: new version of My city 0.08 changelog: https://www.facebook.com/mycitygamem https://apps.facebook.com/my_city_m/?fb_source=fbpage #gamedev #indieweb #unity3d http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/550312317314154496)
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@AllGameBot RT @Miro382: new version of My city 0.08 changelog: https://www.facebook.com/mycitygamem https://apps.facebook.com/my_city_m/?fb_source=fbpage #gamedev #indieweb #unity3d http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/550312361924771841)
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tantek good morning #indiewebcamp!
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petermolnar good morning tantek
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Loqi petermolnar: tantek left you a message on 12/19 at 5:19pm: do you have a feature you'd like to launch and start using on your site 2015-01-01? check /ownyourdata and /indiemark for some ideas.
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petermolnar I have a topic for today: now that many of us enabled SSL ( TLS ) for their websites can someone share their opinion on ssl ciphers and cpu usage? :)
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tantek welcome back petermolnar!
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petermolnar I've recently found that my server ends up in TCP timeouts from blitz.io's point of view after a massive amount of concurrency; after changing the allowed ssl ciphers, this was drastically reduced
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bear petermolnar - some of the older ciphers are indeed very cpu intensive. I found that the Mozilla OpSec team does a great job of outlining which ciphers to use and why: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Server_Side_TLS
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petermolnar any opinions on relatively fast/non-resource hungry but still secury, forward secrecy friendly ciphers?
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bear that link offers three different configuration options based on what your client side requirements are
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bear another source of slowness can be an older version of OpenSSL - make sure your OS has a more recent version (for security and speed reasons)
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petermolnar I tried to use modern ones, excluding 3DES and similar but I'll read the mozilla pae
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petermolnar page
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petermolnar also, latest openssl is compiled into nginx, so that cannot really be the case
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bear k, I asked not knowing you were using nginx (which gets a hearty +1 from me :)
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petermolnar I've left apache bedind a long time ago and used lighttpd only for an embedded project, nginx for the win :)
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bear you can improve your nginx performance by tweaking some of the settings - which are listed in that page for nginx: ssl_session_cache, ssl_dhparam specifically
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@t I've got #indieweb like posts working on my site. 2015-01-01 personal site ship commitment done! (ttk.me t4Zv1) (twitter.com/_/status/550332142514077696)
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@AnastasiaAshman highlights of 2014: seeing @benwerd launch the #indieweb venture @withknown (twitter.com/_/status/550332175649103872)
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@Ang RT @t: I've got #indieweb like posts working on my site. 2015-01-01 personal site ship commitment done! (ttk.me t4Zv1) (twitter.com/_/status/550332373943201792)
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@codebear RT @t: I've got #indieweb like posts working on my site. 2015-01-01 personal site ship commitment done! (ttk.me t4Zv1) (twitter.com/_/status/550332442398449664)
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@rurasyqinula RT @t: I've got #indieweb like posts working on my site. 2015-01-01 personal site ship commitment done! (ttk.me t4Zv1) (twitter.com/_/status/550332576779759616)
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GWG Petermolnar, bear... I need to do that. I just tweaked my SSL settings based on the mozilla intermediate ciphers and got my grade uo. It had dropped to a B
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bear what is your domain name?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "your domain name" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=your+domain+name
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GWG Me or petermolnar?
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bear gwg -you
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GWG david.shanske.com
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bear oh, you need to update your config to increase your B score
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GWG I did. I am at A now
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bear cool
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tantek still manually using Bridgy to POSSE faves of tweets to Twitter, and manually using curl to send webmentions, but I've got indieweb like posts working!
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bear ^5 @t - nice!
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GWG Was that commitment by the end of 01-01 or beginning?
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tantek by the end of 2015-001
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tantek any commitment *for* 2015-001 is assumed inclusive, thus til the end of that day.
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tantek thanks bear!
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tantek you'll be seeing some nice presentational touches with the clustering of likes on my home page
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bear schedules some time to review that CSS so he can "borrow" it
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tantek there's not much CSS to it actually - it's almost all very deliberate text/prose design
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neuro` Good morning
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GWG Bear , I may do that too. I think I may dump the bootstrap.
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tantek GWG, bear, all documented here very explicitly step by step: http://indiewebcamp.com/like#inline_hypertext_design
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tantek there's almost no CSS to it - it really is about publishing smarts (for the clustering, comma delimited, using "and" between the last pair with/without a comma etc.)
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GWG It is just the third time I've thrown my design out the window since March
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tantek there's an example of clustering of liking two things in quick succession on my home page now
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tantek I like that I was the 2nd indieweb like on https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/12/26/1/indieweb-20150101 and the only person to *only* indieweb like it :)
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bear I really enjoy the compact formatting of likes that page shows and *really* enjoy that it's html with a smidge of css
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GWG The only thing I am on the fence about is the time
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bear yea, I may do it differently as I don't (yet) group by day within a post
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aaronpk good morning!
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aaronpk congrats tantek!
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aaronpk interesting that the entry on your home page that contains two likes also has its own permalink!
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aaronpk http://tantek.com/2014/365/f
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snarfed congrats tantek!
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snarfed glad to see you ended up on a similar 'likes [link]' text design as mine
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snarfed esp since you did a ton of research and actually care about UI and design, and i just did the dumbest thing and generally abdicated all responsibility :P
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petermolnar bear re SSL topic: I ended up sticking to my original ciphers, the mozilla ones were indeed giving worse security results
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petermolnar these by the way: DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:AES128-GCM-SHA:AES128-SHA:DES-CBC3-SHA:TLS_DHE_DSS_WITH_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:!LOW:!MEDIUM:!RC2:!RC4:!SEED:!MD5:!aNULL:!eNULL:!EDH:!EXP:!ADH:!PSK:!DES;
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@xtof_fr 2015-01-01personal site commitment done : http://christopheducamp.com/notes/ceci-est-une-note via #indieweb #collections powered by @jekyllrb (http://christopheducamp.com/2014-365/) (twitter.com/_/status/550343855389032448)
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@cstanhope RT @t: I've got #indieweb like posts working on my site. 2015-01-01 personal site ship commitment done! (ttk.me t4Zv1) (twitter.com/_/status/550345043395887104)
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davidpeach.co.uk edited /User:Davidpeach.co.uk (+537) "Added indieweb related post links" (view diff)
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GWG I've decided to go back to what I didn't do last year
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GWG An indieweb/mf2 version of _s, the unstyled starter theme for WordPress
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GWG The last time, I went the easy way and added in bootstrap. This time I'm going strapless.
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aaronpk !tell tantek is your home page h-feed intentionally a child of your h-card? I haven't seen that pattern on anyone else's site before
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@sirmlivesey @c_r_5 @withknown @kevinmarks IndieWebCamp ran an event in the UK this year, hoping to get to any this year. So much good stuff coming. (twitter.com/_/status/550371654904610819)
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davidjohnmead.com edited /Known (+407) "/* Issues moving from WordPress */" (view diff)
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GWG davidmead: We'll miss you
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davidmead i’m not completely moved off WP yet @gwg, hence the “issues” ;-)
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emmak_ aaronpk: what are your thoughts on supporting multiple syndicate-to's in micropub?
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Loqi emmak_: tantek left you a message on 12/19 at 5:25pm: congrats on owningyourreader per http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-12-17#t1418872365318 ! that's pretty awesome.
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Loqi emmak_: tantek left you a message on 12/19 at 5:25pm: do you have a feature you'd like to launch and start using on your site 2015-01-01? check /ownyourdata and /indiemark for some ideas.
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emmak_ half the documentation shows php-style arrays, the other half (and quill) seem to use comma delimited lists
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aaronpk emmak_: the general consensus is to use query string array syntax even though it's not officially part of form-encoding
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aaronpk if you find comma lists in the /micropub page feel free to update
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aaronparecki.com edited /Micropub (-29) "/* Simple Example */ use single syndication target for the "simple example"" (view diff)
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tantek hey Loqi, gimme
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 43 minutes ago: is your home page h-feed intentionally a child of your h-card? I haven't seen that pattern on anyone else's site before
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tantek yes - intentional. the home page - tantek.com - *is* me - and I just happen to show a little recent updates feed as *part* of it (also side bar description, other profiles, etc.)
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aaronpk interesting
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tantek should I put a <link rel="feed" href="#updates"/> for discovery? ;)
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aaronpk I don't know
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tantek I suppose I'll wait for someone writing reader functionality for their website to ask - if it would help them at all - or if they're just happy to do "first h-feed" discovery
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aaronpk yeah
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aaronpk when I consume microformats I do so from the parsed object, so it's kind of hard to find the "first h-feed" because it may be a child of any object at any depth
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aaronpk but i'm not actually working on this right now. just happened to look at your home page to see how the likes ended up in the parsed mf2 version and noticed that
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tantek I've strated using the <body class="h-*"> as the "what is this page primarily about?" thing to answer
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tantek instead of the meta og:type crap
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emmak_ tantek: my indie reader is able to read your site, but i forgot how its doing that
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emmak_ it took several iterations to get to that point though
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tantek this is for better link-previews based on visible markup instead of invisible metacrap
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tantek emmak - I'd be curious to know what work you had to do to get your indie reader to consume / show my site
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tantek or at least my primary feed
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tantek since presumably that's what it is showing?
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tantek there are at least two more potential minifeeds on that page that I have not (yet) marked up as h-feed
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aaronpk the parsed mf2 version of the page doesn't care what element a class is on, so I don't see the significance of putting the class on the <body> tag except for adding clarity for humans reading the source code
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GWG I'm still confused about h-feed in general
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tantek recent articles, and speaking & events
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GWG Does anyone have a great example of a homepage marked up with formats and a single post page?
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tantek aaronpk - the significance of putting it on <body> is that *there is one <body> for the page at it represents all that is visible on the page*
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tantek by putting an h-something on <body>, you are saying "this page *is* an h-something"
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aaronpk sure but that meaning doesn't make it into the parsed version
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npdoty is there a recommended microformat parser as browser extension?
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tantek true - that meaning is at the HTML level
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npdoty so that I can test how my output will be parsed?
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tantek it's intended as a replacement for all the meta tags that attempt to say what is the primary purpose of a page
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emmak_ tantek: i think i had to recursively search for all h-feeds on the page (ie. h-feeds nested in other microformats)
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emmak_ if it fails to find h-feeds, it falls back to reading all top-level h-entries
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aaronpk npdoty: try http://pin13.net/mf2 if you want to see the raw parsed version, or http://indiewebify.me to check semantics
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tantek putting a microformats2 class on <body> == saying what the primary purpose of the page is
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npdoty aaronpk, does this pin13.net parser recognize h-cite?
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aaronpk the pin13.net parser will just show you the parsed version of the page as a JSON document. it doesn't care about specific class names or mf2 objects
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npdoty I just get different results from pasting in the HTML vs. running the javascript bookmarklet
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npdoty ah, because the bookmarklet just passes the url, expecting it to be publicly dereferenceable
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npdoty sorry, was debugging
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npdoty aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 643 karma
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npdoty thanks for the pointer to the web page, which works for me
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aaronpk cool
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tantek emmak - how did the "likes" show up in your reader that I posted this morning?
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tantek did they look reasonable in your reader's presentation?
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emmak !tell tantek your likes appeared as a normal note in my reader, i don't have any special formatting for likes
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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voxpelli consistent predictable datetime parsing in javascript – what a joy – the Date.parse() is a real mess :/
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voxpelli sometimes it parses dates as UTC, sometimes as local time, and different engines support different formats
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kylewm that is a mess in Python and Java too.
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kylewm i guess it must be difficult ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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emmak !tell tantek wait nevermind, it didn't seem to pick up your likes at all
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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bear in python any datetime parsed that doesn't have TZ info will just be that, a datetime without TZ
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bear you can then coerce it to any TZ
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voxpelli that's good, then you can decide yourself how to handle it
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bear nods
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kylewm my issue with python is that strptime doesn't recognize timezones at all, in some versions of python
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kylewm (also not thrilled that there is a method called strptime)
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bear ah
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voxpelli thankfully I finally found a library providing a proper parsing mechanism just now, looking promising: http://momentjs.com/docs/#/parsing/utc/
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bear the gotcha with strptime is which base object you call it from - if that base object groks TZ then you will get it to parse the time zone info
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kylewm bear, I believe that is true in Python3 but not 2... ref http://stackoverflow.com/a/3306887/682648
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@FredrikAarhus Got to love Knight Rider - Of Montreal, such a catchy one #synth #hipsteraidworker #neonrun #indieweb #synth https://twitter.com/FredrikAarhus/status/550399643138658305/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/550399643138658305)
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GWG Anyone around for a design opinion?
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neuro` Yup
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GWG http://notizblog.org/ - This is pfefferle's blog
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neuro` It's very clean
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GWG http://di5.us
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GWG This is my blog
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GWG If you notice, what they both have in common is a box around the h-entry
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neuro` Yup.
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GWG pfefferle's site is themed using his theme, called Sempress, which is the only MF2 theme in the WordPress repository.
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GWG Mine uses a theme I created, not in said repository.
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GWG I'm thinking of taking some of the stuff I like about his, and mine, and merging them into something new
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GWG Mostly because I want to eliminate bootstrap on mine, and his and mine both have a common ancestor
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GWG The box around an entry seems very popular now
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upon2020.com edited /Events (+886) "Added UBOS meetup" (view diff)
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kylewm Known and p3k are also good examples of box-around-the-entry
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GWG What do you all think of it?
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voxpelli I like the box-around-entry style, I use it on http://voxpelli.com/
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voxpelli I very much need to make my design responsive though and not sure how I'm going to adapt the box-style to phone screens – probably doesn't work as well there
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aaronpk i like it too, obviously ;)
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kylewm the boxes let you pack entries in closer together
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GWG Both Sempress and my theme are based on _s. Early on, it was suggested that an _s fork that was mf2 compliant be made. I did a little of that. Then I tried to get _s to go mf2 compliant. They closed the issue. Some I'm bringing back the project on my own
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GWG But, since the two themes that are mf2 compliant both use the bounding box style, I was thinking of building it in.
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voxpelli I guess a subtheme can always override the CSS if they don't like the style so sounds like a good idea to me
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kodfabrik.se edited /IRC_People (+31) "Adding my avatar" (view diff)
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GWG I just want to encourage more mf2 compliant WordPress themes.
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GWG Not sure how to do that, other than giving out a starter theme.
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voxpelli That's probably the best way to do it for WordPress
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voxpelli Are there any other reliable options for retrieving avatars than a nickname-cache? Seeing a lot of broken Twitter-avatar on old posts in my WebMention endpoint
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aaronpk voxpelli: for twitter you can use the unofficial https://twitter.com/aaronpk/profile_image trick
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obra aaronpk! I had no idea that existed
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tantek voxpelli: or http://indiewebcamp.com/webvatar for sites in general
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Loqi tantek: emmak left you a message 2 hours, 1 minute ago: your likes appeared as a normal note in my reader, i don't have any special formatting for likes
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Loqi tantek: emmak left you a message 1 hour, 46 minutes ago: wait nevermind, it didn't seem to pick up your likes at all
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tantek emmak - I wonder why - does your reader depend on particular h-entry fields being there? it should be able to read and show the likes without knowing about likes
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aaronpk it should show the "name" property, correct?
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emmak tantek: its probably a bug
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emmak likes in the feed isn't something i've seen on anyone else
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emmak 's blog or tested much
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tantek aaronpk - correct
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tantek it's another way of doing something note-like
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tantek I went with a minimal markup approach to see what could work
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aaronpk man I really need a reader
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tantek is it in your itches?
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aaronpk i think so
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aaronparecki.com edited /User:Aaronparecki.com (+22) "it's time for a reader" (view diff)
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tantek I have a feeling that owningmylikes (only/first posting likes on my own site) will drive me in that direction as well
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tantek because it seems like my most common action when "reading" e.g. Twitter stream/lists/profiles is *favoriting*
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tantek alternatively - Greasemonkey script overrides clicking Twitter's favorite star into posting a like on my site - that might actually be easier
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tantek have to think about how I want to capture this as an itch
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aaronpk oh yeah, I should dig that up. I had that working with "reply" a while back
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aaronpk i still want a reader though because I mostly don't even read things on twitter.com anyway
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GWG Am I back? Had a split?
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snarfed aaronpk: do you use an rss/atom feed reader?
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snarfed (probably obvious where this is going :P)
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GWG snarfed: What do you do again?
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snarfed GWG: sorry?
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snarfed you mean like, my job?
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snarfed https://snarfed.org/resume
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GWG I meant, for reading content
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snarfed ahahaha sorry
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snarfed newsblur and http://twitter-atom.appspot.com/ and friends (fb, instagram, etc)
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snarfed https://snarfed.org/feeds
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GWG I tried newsblur...
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GWG I switched to tt-rss.
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snarfed sure!
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kylewm I am frustrated; I really like feedbin but the UI can't keep up with the volume of a twitter feed
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GWG I may try the Twitter atom thing though
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snarfed kylewm: ah yeah i saw your earlier msg
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kylewm newsblur looks so cluttered by comparison
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GWG kylewm: I'm not sure if tt-rss can, but it would be your own server, so...
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snarfed my twitter list is pretty low volume, so i dunno
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kylewm snarfed, ah that's what i was going to ask, if you are following a specific list rather than all your followees
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snarfed definitely
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kylewm it is also a little frustrating because all of them seem to give more prominent presentation to the feed owner rather than the post author
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snarfed yeah, hard to fight that on the publisher end
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snarfed at a higher level, it makes me sad that we here often seem to reject existing readers entirely, just because of the feed sidefile plumbing debate
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snarfed when most of the effort and value in readers is the UX and functionality they enable
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kylewm GWG, I ran tt-rss for a while, I seem to remember it had a lot of trouble with some particular feeds i wanted to sub to
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kylewm they had minor errors or something that other readers could cope with
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kylewm snarfed++ I agree with you, only recently come around to that opinion
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Loqi snarfed has 69 karma
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snarfed kylewm: re the bs4 mirror, i don't actually care whose name it's under
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snarfed most of the existing submodules are other people's :P
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snarfed but if you want it to be under snarfed/, works for me
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voxpelli_ KevinMarks made a h-entry to atom/rss converter so really no reason to disregard old school readers anymore from that perspective either
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KevinMarks other way round
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KevinMarks I made an atom/rss to h-entry converter
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KevinMarks ben made the reverse
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snarfed voxpelli_++
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Loqi voxpelli has 14 karma
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snarfed KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 74 karma
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voxpelli_ Ah, well that's even better :)
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kylewm KevinMarks, which ben? too many bens
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snarfed i love how much we here prioritize use cases over plumbing - at least for indieweb sites, which are generally small data/traffic - so when we occasionally get worked up about the odd bit of plumbing best practice, like "no sidefiles," it catches me off guard
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snarfed meh, anyway
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KevinMarks er actually I thinkit was barnaby: https://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/
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neuro` Happy new year
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KevinMarks round trip: http://www.unmung.com/feed?feed=https%3A%2F%2Fwaterpigs.co.uk%2Fservices%2Fmicroformats-to-atom%2F%3Furl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252FKevinmarks.com
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snarfed i guess i understand that skew and stale sidefiles result in suboptimal UX in feed readers. which is fair. still, weighed against the use cases existing readers already provide, and all…
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snarfed more importantly:
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snarfed barnabywalters++ too
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kylewm GWG: do you not have that problem with tt-rss?
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Loqi barnabywalters has 76 karma
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aaronpk snarfed: I haven't used an rss reader in ages, actually long before google reader shut down (I was using google reader)
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aaronpk My issue isn't that there aren't any mf2 readers, it's that the traditional rss readers aren't built around the model I want to consume by
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voxpelli_ snarfed: speaking of feeds btw – been involved in https://github.com/Reboot-RSS/reboot-rss ? Know Superfeedr-Julien and some from my employer Bloglovin has tried to look into how to move along RSS there
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aaronpk Also I want my reader to support micropub but that's a separate point
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aaronpk So no I don't actually think that existing readers offer me much which is why I'm not trying to solve it that way (converting mf2 to rss and using an existing reader)
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GWG kylewm: With some feeds. Not with the majority of them.
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GWG aaronpk: What model is that?
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voxpelli_ "feed reader" is a very broad term, often eg. a podcatcher is technically a feed reader but with a different UX on top
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aaronpk I should probably write this up as a 2015 goal :-)
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Loqi definitely
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snarfed voxpelli_: i have heard of it! but haven't followed closely
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clintpatty Are you including the features/model you want in a reader in that? Or is the reader the goal?
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voxpelli_ snarfed: eg the WebMention in RSS idea is intriguing: https://github.com/Reboot-RSS/reboot-rss/issues/11
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aaronpk clintpatty: the post would be about what I want in a reader app
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snarfed voxpelli_: definitely! some readers have taken stabs at that before (actions inside the reader). and aaronpk clearly wants it
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voxpelli_ snarfed: we definitely have some actions at Bloglovin :)
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snarfed true!
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snarfed i've also suggested to julien that he could send webmentions proactively for all feed items that superfeedr processes
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snarfed maybe opt in, maybe blanket. it's *huge* volume, but he liked the idea
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voxpelli_ if one initially only do it for feed items that contain a WebMention endpoint defined in it then the volume should be manageable
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snarfed s/manageable/tiny/ :P
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voxpelli_ And I guess that would be easy to add for most people with feeds, like everyone with the WordPress plugin
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snarfed the main benefit would be sending on behalf of sites that *don't* do it themselves yet
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voxpelli_ Ah, right, mixed up outgoing with incoming :P
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GWG aaronpk: I want to read that.