#indiewebcamp 2014-10-06

2014-10-06 UTC
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GWG I learned to program with C, later C++ and I'm afraid I don't always remember what I learned in college.
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bret working with mathpunk on installing ghost right now actually
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@anomalily So I finally got POSSE set up to Facebook and Twitter, with Bridgy likes/comments back for FB! Yay #indieweb http://anomalily.net/test-post-of-posse-to-facebook/ (twitter.com/_/status/518931488822546432)
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GWG reading anomalily's bio
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GWG How do you 'wonk' about transportation?
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GWG Isn't that a noun, not a verb?
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GWG I should ask. I am not sure what is meant
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Loqi I agree
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aaronpk_ http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Wonk
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GWG There's my problem
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GWG I'm not using an urban one
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GWG aaronpk_: Thank you. Was wondering about that
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GWG Hmmm...biking then
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GWG anomalily: Was just speaking of you.
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aaronpk_ I built a microformats parser into the layout so that each page renders a microformat-parsed version of itself and it's pretty much the best thing ever
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carmen which part. the quine-recursion part
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GWG aaronpk_: What are you doing with all these metrics?
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aaronpk_ I'm pretty bad at actually doing things with them right now
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GWG Can I expect a graph of your mimosa intake?
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aaronpk_ you can, in fact
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aaronpk_ anomalily however is way better about doing things with her metrics: http://anomalily.net/this-year-in-numbers-2014/
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GWG How about mimosa vs coffee intake, plotting over a series of dys?
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aaronpk_ (looks really sweet in printed form)
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GWG aaronpk_: I'm wondering what the endgame is. Collecting data is interesting, but I always wonder about using it
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GWG Also still curious about the Pebble thing. It is giving me ideas before seeing it, which is probably good
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aaronpk_ it's pretty much amazing
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aaronpk_ take a look at pebble.js, they have a new SDK you can write apps in javascript so you don't have to do a bunch of C memory management
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GWG aaronpk_: I never learned JS. I should though.
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GWG I learned Pascal. It hasn't helped me in years
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aaronpk_ or if you know C then you can just do that
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GWG I did learn C and C++ on my own in high school
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GWG By the time I got to college it was all Java
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GWG I hated Java
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aaronpk_ oh yeah
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GWG And then I sort of pretend I know PHP
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GWG aaronpk_: To which? Pascal?
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GWG I know how to back a winner
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GWG aaronpk_: I'm just wondering...the MicroPub client...is it canned responses or are you trying to write on a Pebble?
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shaners If I'm rolling an experimental mf2, should I do something like: h-hs-foo or h-hs-foo or h-x-foo?
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shaners Experimental meaning, i'm using it and no one else is yet.
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KartikPrabhu shaners: if you only intend to use it internally rhen *-hs-* would be good, else if it could be useful for others but still experimental then *-x-*
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KevinMarks_ Writing C in PHP is a traditional pastime
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KevinMarks_ Anomalily's dataviz also looks great on a nexus 7
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KevinMarks_ Aaronpk you output mf2,parse into json, then render with what?
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aaronpk_ <pre><?= json_encode(Mf2\parse($html), JSON_PRETTY_PRINT) ?></pre>
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KevinMarks_ Oh, I thought this was for the sleep data where you made SVG
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aaronpk_ oh the sleep data svg thing is just a hack
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aaronpk_ converting jawbone's png image to SVG
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KevinMarks_ Oh right,
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aaronpk_ so Jawbone uses the generic "had" rather than "ate" or "drank"
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aaronpk_ https://jawbone.com/up/activity/meals/sJiGP21NlZoiby6_E6X0y9UYlKYHXvQa
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aaronpk_ I kind of like the separation of the third-person text from the beverage name
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@IndieGameGuys RT LisaVProulx: Indie Authors don’t have time to tweet about your book all day? Let me do it for you! Indie Auth... http://indieauthorpromotions.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/518955928469905408)
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aaronpk_ gRegor`: neat archive view! http://gregorlove.com/archives/
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aaronpk_ I've been trying to figure out what to do with mine too
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aaronpk_ https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k/issues/69
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@ahallicks http://werd.io/2014/why-cant-you-comment-on-this-post-indieweb - Why can't you comment on this post? #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/518959280113086465)
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp!
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aaronpk_ evening!
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aaronpk_ boy do I have a surprise coming for y'all this weekend!
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aaronpk_ I'm kind of unreasonable excited about it
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aaronpk_ (assuming I can finish in time of course)
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tantek aaronpk - you've built so many amazing things, that I hesitate to guess at what *you* could consider such a surprise that you're unreasonably excited about it
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aaronpk_ sometimes I think too fast for my own good
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aaronpk_ I am hoping to make a point important enough that someone else can document it ;)
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tantek and I'll be there to document it :)
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KevinMarks_ Check out @ericnakagawa's Tweet: https://twitter.com/ericnakagawa/status/518966591648563200
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@ericnakagawa Uhm, why is the website for Twitter's Flight conference built in cold fusion? https://www.twitterflight.com/index.cfm — was the site an agency project? (twitter.com/_/status/518966591648563200)
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aaronpk_ anomalily is kicking butt on her site with microformats!
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tantek awesome!!!
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aaronpk_ she posted an event on her wordpress site (as a wordpress post!) with h-event markup, then manually POSSE'd to facebook and is getting bridgy rsvps!
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aaronpk_ interesting, wordpress is catching some of the bridgy "invite" posts as spam!
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indie-visitor Hey, anyone have trouble with Bridgy getting replies caught in spam in mass? Is there a way to write a rule in wordpress spam
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snarfed are you using the semantic-linkbacks plugin? a recent version? i *think* it should skip the spam filter
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anomalily Yup!
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anomalily ...sorry, that was me as indie-visitor, apparently I had IRC open in two tabs
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anomalily 95% of them are skipping spam, but I just did a HUGE event invite and now all the "is invited" are getting caught in spam
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anomalily http://anomalily.net/wandernarbeitsfruhstuck/
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snarfed anomalily: and this is akismet flagging them as spam?
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snarfed anomalily: if so, i guess i'm not surprised. it's being aggressive, but that's probably intentional. maybe file a semantic-linkbacks or webmention plugin feature request to disable spam checking on webmention comments?
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snarfed (that's debatable, of course. maybe a user option)
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snarfed anomalily: also, i'm curious, is your event public? i don't see it on https://www.facebook.com/anomalily/events . if not, that's arguably a bug i should fix. (bridgy should only backfeed fully public posts/events/etc)
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anomalily It IS public!
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anomalily But I don't see it there either
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anomalily hmmm
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anomalily I think it is akismet. I essentially want to figure out if I can write a rule that approves/marks as "not spam" everything from brid-gy
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anomalily (in the url)
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tantek anomalily - excellent progress you're making with your WordPress setup!
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tantek indeed - is there no way to give akismet a URL whitelist?
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tantek as one would add an address to their email program to not consider spam?
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anomalily tantek: thanks! Yea, I am totally spending the last day of my maniac weekend doing stuff with my website instead of my day job. Oops
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@beezeebooks RT @thesuzettebrown: TY D/load successful - ONE more day *FREE* http://linkis.com/www.smashwords.com/b/rvuzg Code: JL98G #RRBC #amreading @beezeebooks @IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/518976692531249152)
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tantek sounds exciting though!
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anomalily snarfed: Hey, what does Bridgy do with wordpress URL redirects?
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snarfed anomalily: can you elaborate?
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snarfed it always follows all redirects for both original post links and publish source urls, if that helps...?
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anomalily So it will find RSVPs on facebook if it's a redirect link?
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anomalily The original URL didn't contain the "ue" for the umlauts in frühstück and I want to fix it ;)
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anomalily ...but not if it breaks webmentions
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snarfed should be ok. "final" redirect end urls are cached temporarily, but if that makes any wms fail, they'll retry until the cache expires
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anomalily Thanks :-)
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aaronpk_ anomalily is seeing some weird values come in as the author of the bridgy comments. I think it's a problem with the wordpress plugin because the bridgy markup looks right. http://anomalily.net/wandernarbeitsfruhstuck/##is+invited
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snarfed aaronpk_: agreed. the semantic-linkbacks plugin can be flaky, depending on the version and other factors i don't entirely understand
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aaronpk_ darn!
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tantek.com edited /archives (-193) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /archive (+43) "incorporate dfn from archives" (view diff)
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tantek !tell gRegor` add your indieweb archive example to http://indiewebcamp.com/archive#IndieWeb_Examples - when did you add support for archive page(s) to your site?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu tantek: does this https://kartikprabhu.com/articles count as archives?
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aaronpk_ this does https://kartikprabhu.com/articles/year=2013
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tantek what aaronpk said
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tantek KartikPrabhu: when did you implement your archive view?
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tantek but yes - we should start adding more examples to http://indiewebcamp.com/archive#IndieWeb_Examples
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tantek.com edited /archive (+222) "/* Tantek */ note archives from 2002-08 to 2008-08" (view diff)
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tantek diving through archives, apparently I was using the "sparkline" mini-avatar image next to my name styling since 2005-07: http://tantek.com/log/2005/07.html#d01t0945
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tantek from that post I found this previous post on Cognitive overload: http://tantek.com/log/2005/01.html#d02t2232
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tantek and scroling down past that - apparently I launched my Atom feed 2005-01-02: http://tantek.com/log/2005/01.html#d02t0412
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aaronpk_ this is fascinating... "stopping drinking coffee significantly reduced the emotional sense of urgency to respond instantly to every email/phonecall..."
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tantek nice thing is, Annevk's "reply" to my post about my Atom feed still works! https://annevankesteren.nl/2005/01/tantek-has-a-feed
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tantek and if you read his post carefully - there's something I had long forgotten about
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aaronpk_ ha "Actually, authoring XML by hand is already pretty hard. "
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tantek he links to "the HTML Syndication Format" http://hixie.ch/specs/hsf/hsf-1.0-pre1
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tantek authored in 2003, and with some additional forensics in the source, apparently on 2003-06-08
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aaronpk_ oh nice
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aaronpk_ the Requirements section is great
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@robynover Thinking of last-minute going to @indiewebcamp but unsure if i'm/it's the right fit. http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge Anyone going? Wanna? Any info? (twitter.com/_/status/519001016088674304)
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Loqi [mention] http://xtof.withknown.com/2014/indiewebcampparis-meetup-2 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieWebCampParis (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: I don't even recall when I made the archive view, one of the first things I did on my site
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tantek aaronpk can you help out @robynover? ^^^
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tantek KartikPrabhu: commit logs?
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aaronpk_ oh hey she's a friend of anomalily it looks like
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KartikPrabhu someone should send an encouraging reply to @robynover I might not be the right person as I dn't understand the whole "not the right fit" thing
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KartikPrabhu tantek: ha! was pretty much a n00b at that point to have commit logs :P
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KartikPrabhu errr I still don't do version control on my site code :P
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KartikPrabhu must rectify that
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tantek KartikPrabhu: I do static snapshots with -YYYY-DDD suffixes :)
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@anomalily @robynover @indiewebcamp I won’t be at the Cambridge one, but you should totally go! Really rad people & great conversations/projects! (twitter.com/_/status/519002715649609728)
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KartikPrabhu if only a beginner ( like me at that time) has such foreisght
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KartikPrabhu why does /archive have a "see also" called "archives" which redirects to the same page?
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anomalily ^I totally responded to robynover hoping that the other-queer-lady angle would be encouraging
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tantek anomalily++ +100 thank you
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Loqi anomalily has 5 karma
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KartikPrabhu anomalily++ :)
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Loqi anomalily has 6 karma
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@versvs «webmention», un protocolo que quiere actualizar la noción de Pingback http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention?utm_content=buffer95560&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/519006902920175616)
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@anomalily @robynover Not at all. It’s pretty much “choose-your-own-adventure” - since much #indieweb technology is relatively new, plenty to make/do. (twitter.com/_/status/519008852209958914)
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aaronpk_ ( for context: https://twitter.com/robynover/status/519008359425789953 )
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@robynover @anomalily Thanks for the encouragement! If one is already a developer, do you think it'd be redundant? From the description, hard to tell. (twitter.com/_/status/519008359425789953)
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@aaronpk @robynover @anomalily There's certainly a large developer contingent! You may be interested in reading... #indieweb http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/10/05/1/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/519010173638037504)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/10/05/1/indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/generations (webmention)
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tantek aaronpk: fascinating that being a *developer* posed the question of whether it was redundant!
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aaronpk_ indeed!
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aaronpk_ first time I've seen that reaction!
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tantek whereas others have said, I'm *not* a developer, do I belong?
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KartikPrabhu was surprised too
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@pantulis RT @versvs: «webmention», un protocolo que quiere actualizar la noción de Pingback http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention?utm_content=buffer95560&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/519012212258922497)
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shaners Is anyone posting photos/videos/audios(?) with a mf2 other than h-entry?
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shaners Has anyone moved h-media forward?
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shaners I mean, has anyone moved hMedia into mf2-land as h-media?
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aaronpk_ I haven't gone down that road yet because h-entry describes my current photo posts better right now. once I (eventually) have all my flickr photos on my site I suspect those will be better as h-media posts
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shaners aaronpk_ actually, now that i look at it again / deeper, h-entry has way more usefullness than the old hmedia.
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aaronpk_ tantek: do we have an algorithm to find a representative h-card from a person's home page?
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tantek shaners - in practice hMedia never found any interesting consuming applications, so it didn't get moved forward to microformats2
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tantek what is representative h-card?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "representative h-card" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=representative+h-card
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shaners only rel-enclosure would be nice to see added to h-entry as u-enclosure.
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shaners otherewise, you're right, hmedia isn't much interesting
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aaronpk_ interesting http://microformats.org/wiki/representative-hcard-parsing "The first hCard found which has a "url" property whose value is the url of the page (source) and is also a "uid" property for the hCard"
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aaronpk_ why is the uid match a requirement?
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tantek.com created /representative_h-card (+558) "stub with links to microformats" (view diff)
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tantek KevinMarks: how are you representing podcasts in h-entry in unmung?
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tantek (which is why I assume shaners is asking about enclosure)
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shaners yep
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tantek shaners, basically, any classic microformat that has no consuming applications got dropped.
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shaners That's fair.
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tantek and only those with publicly visible / useful consuming applications got upgraded to microformats2, and even those had every property scrutinized.
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shaners 👍
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tantek aaronpk uid match is a requirement to avoid false positives
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tantek what is a representative h-card?
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Loqi The representative h-card for a page is an h-card on that page that represents that page, if any, as not all pages are about a person or organization, a page might not have a representative h-card http://indiewebcamp.com/representative_h-card
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tantek now that I've answered the prior art question - let me ask the use-cse
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tantek s/cse/case
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Loqi tantek meant to say: now that I've answered the prior art question - let me ask the use-case
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tantek aaronpk, what's your use-case to find a representative h-card from a person's home page?
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aaronpk_ after signing in with indieauth, finding the person's name and profile image
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aaronpk_ I even have a todo note in the omniauth library https://github.com/aaronpk/omniauth-indieauth/blob/master/lib/omniauth/strategies/indieauth.rb#L54
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aaronpk_ but i'm in php land right now, adding it to indieauth-client-php
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aaronpk_ this is part of bypassing a "signup" flow and just pulling info from the person's home page cause it should already be there
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tantek.com edited /representative_h-card (+304) "Use Cases" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - good. a more common use case would be when writing a blog post and entering a URL for a person, having their photo and name be auto-filled from their h-card on their site
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tantek (yes I added it to the doc)
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aaronpk_ that is actually different, because in that case you're looking for the representative h-card for an h-entry
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aaronpk_ oh sorry you're right. I thought you meant comments
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tantek no you're linking to their home page (" URL for a person" )
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tantek ah ok - msgs crossed
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tantek aww
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KartikPrabhu tantek shaners: iirc unmung uses u-audio for podcasts
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tantek this is an empirical question
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tantek http://feed.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Ffeeds.wnyc.org%2Fonthemedia
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aaronpk_ barnaby doesn't have u-uid on his p-author property of the feed
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tantek <audio class="u-audio" src="…" … >
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tantek aaronpk - that wouldn't make sense - that would turn the p-author into a unique ID for the feed
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aaronpk_ ok right. but that's the only h-card on barnaby's home page
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KartikPrabhu tantek: example: http://feed.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Ffeeds.5by5.tv%2Fwebahead&raw=on
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KartikPrabhu the audio element at the end has u-audio
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tantek KartikPrabhu: already posted above
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KartikPrabhu neat :)
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tantek both an example URL and <audio> with u-audio
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aaronpk_ so how does barnaby indicate that that specific h-card is the representative h-card for his home page?
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tantek does he not have rel=me?
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aaronpk_ he has rel=me to the same page
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shaners KartikPrabhu what happens to podcasts with video enclosures instead of audio?
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KartikPrabhu u-video ?
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aaronpk_ i'm looking at http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwaterpigs.co.uk%2F
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KartikPrabhu no example i can think of though
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tantek shaners - find a video podcast and try it with http://feed.unmung.com/
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KartikPrabhu hasn't come across any video "podasts" except on silos like Youtube or Vimeo
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aaronpk_ because video is hard
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tantek maybe Flickr videos?
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aaronpk_ tantek: how would a "url" property of an h-card be potentially ambiguous?
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aaronpk_ (where u-uid would lead to fewer false positives)
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tantek you can have multiple u-url values
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aaronpk_ barnaby's is a good example of that
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aaronpk_ but one of the u-url values is his home page
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tantek whereas only the first u-uid value makes sense, it's like a canonical
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tantek no way to guess which of those is the real thing
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tantek s/real/canonical
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Loqi tantek meant to say: no way to guess which of those is the canonical thing
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shaners Put This On is a video podcast : http://putthison.com
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aaronpk_ when would this fail? "The first h-card found which has a "url" property whose value is the url of the page."
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tantek shaners - try putting its feed through unmung, and view source
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tantek aaronpk if that url was a group blog
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tantek and if h-cards for the authors all included that URL as one of their URLs
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tantek as people do (these are the URLs I contribute to)
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aaronpk_ can u-uid be used to disambiguate in that specific case then? but not be required to find an h-card for a page?
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tantek it has to be required or else too easy to get a false positive
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tantek in the group blog case - *there is no representative h-card* that's the point
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tantek since no one is going to claim the group blog as their own canonical URL, that works
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aaronpk_ (or maybe there is a separate h-card which is the blog info, like blog icon and name and such)
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tantek but then that's "blog info" - not an h-card
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aaronpk_ ok that makes sense but I'm not seeing a good solution to this right now
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tantek and *then* you're looking for some notion of "representative object"
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cweiske aaronpk, how's federated indieauth on indieauth.com coming along?
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tantek which is a different problem
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tantek hence why I asked about use-case
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shaners looks like unmung doesn't do anything with video enclosures
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aaronpk_ how does barnaby make his site work with the representative h-card algorithm as it currently is described?
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tantek shaners - sounds like you could/should !tell Kevinmarks a feature request for unmung
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tantek aaronpk - he adds explicit u-uid markup to the URL that is his home page
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aaronpk_ you said that would be wrong
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tantek on a group blog it would be wrong
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tantek on p-author it would be wrong because that's inside the h-feed
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shaners !tell Kevinmarks Seems like unmung doesn't do anything with video enclosures on video podcasts. Maybe add those with a .u-video class? Eg: http://putthison.com (link in sidebar)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek but clearly he has a u-url of waterpigs.co.uk inside his h-card already
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tantek per http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwaterpigs.co.uk%2F
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aaronpk_ among many others
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tantek so he just needs to *also* markup that *one* u-url with u-uid
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tantek I don't see what the problem is you're seeing
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aaronpk_ ok I thought that is what I asked before and you said it wouldn't work
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@biankahajdu RT @versvs: «webmention», un protocolo que quiere actualizar la noción de Pingback http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention?utm_content=buffer95560&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/519022827916496896)
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tantek no you asked about putting u-uid on p-author
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tantek and that would be wrong
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tantek because p-author is a property of h-feed in that case
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aaronpk_ I meant on the h-card that is the p-author
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tantek I had to answer literally
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tantek because precision matters
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tantek for such object hierarchy
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aaronpk_ so it looks like indiewebify.me is not following the representative algorithm then, because it's finding barnaby's h-card http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-card/?url=waterpigs.co.uk
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tantek aaronpk - it's likely just finding *an* h-card
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tantek which, as I pointed out, will fail for group blogs
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aaronpk_ it's finding totally the wrong one on my site http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-card/?url=aaronparecki.com
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aaronpk_ i think it's finding the first
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tantek just getting the first
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tantek so it's not impelmenting representative h-card at all
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tantek it's just implementting first h-card
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aaronpk_ oh hey look at that... from 6 months ago https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/issues/21
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tantek seems tobe finding mine http://indiewebify.me/validate-h-card/?url=tantek.com
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aaronpk_ ok I'll make this follow the u-uid rule and it will definitely fail on people's websites until they add u-uid somewhere. i'll try to add a debugging step to help
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tantek right - that debugging step should be fixing the existing validator - indiewebify.me - as the issue you filed
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aaronpk_ not quite :) but sure
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KevinMarks_ I can add a case for video links too if you have example feeds
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Loqi KevinMarks_: shaners left you a message 19 minutes ago: Seems like unmung doesn't do anything with video enclosures on video podcasts. Maybe add those with a .u-video class? Eg: http://putthison.com (link in sidebar)
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KevinMarks_ Should I add rel="enclosure" too?
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tantek rel=enclosure only works for permalink pages
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KevinMarks_ If there's only one hCard, do you still require a u-uid?
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aaronpk_ KevinMarks_: according to this algorithm yes
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tantek KevinMarks - it might not be a page about a person\
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tantek in which case there is zero representative h-card - that's the point of explicit u-uid
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KevinMarks_ Hm. Seems like a hypothetical objection to a common case
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cweiske aaronpk_, how's federated indieauth on indieauth.com coming along?
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aaronpk_ cweiske: haven't made any additional progress, but it's really close
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tantek KevinMarks: nope, not hypothetical, plenty of product pages, recipe pages, post permalink pages
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tantek sheesh, please
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tantek none of those are about a person nor have a *representative* h-card
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KartikPrabhu from what I recall, representative hcard algo is for finding the h-card once you are already on a person's page, not for finding h-card of the author from a post page for instance
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shaners KevinMarks: I don't think you should bother with rel-enclosure. But maybe a .p-x-enclosure class? Since mf2 moved away from rels for most thigs that classes can do.
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tantek KartikPrabhu: hence my request for specific use-cases - to disambiguate/clarify if someone is asking for the wrong plumbing for their use-case
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tantek shaners - what's the use-case you're trying to solove with p-x-*?
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shaners KevinMarks: i mean .u-x-enclosure. u, not p.
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tantek shaners - again, why? for what use-case?
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shaners i think .p-enclosure should exist on h-entry to be explicit about what a feed reader should download as the enclosure. but it's not part of the h-entry spec (yet). so it goes under the experiment prefix, right?
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shaners (i was typing)
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tantek sorry
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shaners sok
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tantek if your indie web site is your reader - where is it downloading to?
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KevinMarks__ I set preload=false to stop them all being downloaded in this case ('cos crashing browsers is bad)
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tantek right - thus I think explicit download instructions like that might be the wrong approach
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shaners I'm moving my atom feed away from being separately generated to being generated from the html itself.
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tantek a-ha - thus your use-case is generating an atom feed
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shaners i want to be able to unabiguously know what is the enclosure (in old atom/rss parlance) from the html
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tantek why not propagate all u-photo u-audio u-video from the h-entry into "enclosures" in Atom?
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tantek in your code that generates the Atom from the h-entry
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tantek going to stick with that recommendation for tonight
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petermolnar.eu edited /WordPress (-7) "/* Spam/Comment Protection */" (view diff)
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tantek rather than any additional work of having to markup enclosure explicitly
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shaners that feels presumptious / overly aggressive. but i'll sleep on it. it's late.
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tantek right - me too (will sleep on it). night night.
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shaners sweet dreams
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aaronpk_ ok *whew* got the representative algo working
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shaners should i not bother with rel-tag anymore?
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KevinMarks__ OK, how's that: http://feed.unmung.com/feed?feed=http%3A%2F%2Ffeeds.feedburner.com%2Fputthison
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KevinMarks__ I adde u-video and video elements
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aaronpk_ oh no, now it's breaking when the URL I enter is actually a 301 redirect
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aaronpk_ oh man so not interested in fixing that right now
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@fdevillamil @benward @benwerd on #indiewebcamp IRC channel I once thought @benward was @benwerd. Then I had a coffee. (twitter.com/_/status/519033472812584960)
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neuro` Good morning.
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KevinMarks__ hm , video wider than the page
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Loqi neuro`: tantek left you a message 5 days, 11 hours ago: re: https://twitter.com/fdevillamil/status/517054101793026048 not really. Not understanding the huge difference between /Twitter & /RSS is why RSS-framed publishing/sharing solutions/approaches are doomed to die a slow irrelevant death.
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KevinMarks__ I told benwerd to go have a drink with benward because they have a short edit distance - I think they got on
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aaronpk_ KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 64 karma
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aaronpk_ ha didn't see this before from that twitter thread. not sure if trolling or serious... https://twitter.com/kpfrahm/status/517046703828897792
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@kpfrahm @davewiner true. wish the rss inventor'd have named it 'chirper' or something, and maybe launched an open web app with a simple ui back then (twitter.com/_/status/517046703828897792)
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shaners KevinMarks: looks grood.
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KevinMarks__ hm, they have summary and content that diverge on their posts
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KevinMarks__ I'm taking content, which is boilerplate, but hte summary has more text
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KevinMarks__ feeds meh
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KevinMarks__ I suppose I could show both
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shaners meh
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KevinMarks__ hm, that code is a mess -clearly I wrote the first verison while very tired
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KevinMarks__ should I put the audio/video inside e-content?
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KevinMarks__ gah, this is annoying
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KevinMarks__ writing conditional logic in templating languages sucks
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shaners good everyone
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shaners s/good/goodnight/
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Loqi shaners meant to say: goodnight everyone
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shaners good night, loqi
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Loqi sweet dreams
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KevinMarks__ content vs summary meh
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KevinMarks__ feeds--
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Loqi feeds has -1 karma
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glennjones.net edited /IRC_People (+100) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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GWG Morning.
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GWG Except for those for which it is afternoon or evening.
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cweiske http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
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GWG cweiske: You can't please everyone
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petermolnar as it's 1412598524, good day to you as well GWG :)
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GWG Hi, petermolnar
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petermolnar I have a question on u-in-reply-to and the similar: can that be within e-content or it's a strict thing to put it out of e-content?
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barnabywalters petermolnar: consider how the reply would look as a comment on a post, or in a feed reader. If it makes sense to have the link in the content as displayed that way, then it’s fine
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barnabywalters from a mf2 parsing POV there’s nothing technically wrong with it
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petermolnar ok; the main reason I asked because I'm trying to reduce the amount of per article metadata attached to an entry on my site
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tylerfontaine.me edited /IRC_People (+52) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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@fdevillamil Fred THoughts: A Docker image to test Publify without installing it #indieweb https://t37.net/a-docker-image-to-test-publify-without-installing-it.html (twitter.com/_/status/519104806305402880)
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tfontaine Oh look. I caused a robot to do work. Whoops. :)
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loic_m aaronpk> I'll be at border-none next week, would be nice to meet you :)
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: hey, remember your article on HTTPS and you mentione alpower.com as working in browsers but not in guzzle?
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GWG petermolnar: When I tried to put it inside when working on the Indieweb Taxonomy plugin, it seemed to cause trouble for some parsing, as I recall.
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petermolnar that does not sound too promising GWG :)
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GWG petermolnar: I went around it by offering a content filter that can be turned on, and I'm going to change the alternate placement to custom by theme.
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petermolnar makes sense
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GWG So, if you want to put it outside the e-content, you have to support that in the theme. If not, you have an option for putting it in the content filter
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GWG I need to submit a pull request to SemPress for that, actually. It's on my list
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jonnybarnes !tell barnabywalters well, I think I've made some headway in getting Guzzle to "just work" with sites like alpower.com: https://github.com/guzzle/guzzle/issues/848
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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GWG I just think pfefferle is pretty busy of late
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GWG petermolnar, what are you planning?
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petermolnar nothing special at all, but I do getting a bit tired of WordPress itself with all the hacks I need to put in place for it to work and look like I want it so
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petermolnar so at the moment, I've already remove as much meta entries as I could and put them into the content
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petermolnar in markdown
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petermolnar but I'm still struggling with a few thing, like the replies and so, where and how to put that
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GWG meta as in date/etc?
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petermolnar no, as in link for link format, quote source for quote format, etc
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petermolnar I wanted something very flexible about half a year ago and I ended up with a shattered mess :D
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GWG petermolnar, have you tried my taxonomy plugin for responses? It might work for you?
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petermolnar I've checked it, but I'm not sure I need it that way; it's a nice plugin though
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GWG I have realized that a custom taxonomy is the alternative to trying to use post formats for that
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GWG That was the aspect I was suggesting
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: wow, that’s great! awesome work!
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes++
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Loqi jonnybarnes has 5 karma
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Loqi barnabywalters: jonnybarnes left you a message 26 minutes ago: well, I think I've made some headway in getting Guzzle to "just work" with sites like alpower.com: https://github.com/guzzle/guzzle/issues/848
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: even if the PR doesn’t get merged (which would surprise me) that code could be wrapped up as a Guzzle plugin
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barnabywalters but really the PR should get merged, as it makes guzzle way more robust
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barnabywalters ideally it needs a way of storing the certificates as well though
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@jtroyer @etherealmind Yup. Check out @WithKnown & http://indiewebcamp.com - open source, micro formats, distributed: not quite, but pendulum swinging (twitter.com/_/status/519124842713735168)
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Loqi [mention] http://andreaarbogast.org/2014/known-thoughts linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (webmention)
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@petermolnar @jtroyer @etherealmind blogs. They might be re-named to #indieweb though. (twitter.com/_/status/519127523142430720)
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ben_thatmustbeme morning all
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aaronpk_ morning
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cuibonobo good morning
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petermolnar good morning
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ben_thatmustbeme been looking at this whole indie-config bit. seems pretty interesting. I'm surprised there isn't a better way to do it though
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, can you pull a custom protocol through and ajax query?
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cweiske as mailto:?
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cweiske or web+foo?
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ben_thatmustbeme web+foo
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cweiske XMLHttpRequest cannot load web+fork:http://p.cweiske.de/129. Cross origin requests are only supported for HTTP.
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ben_thatmustbeme damn, well that explains that
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@LiemNguyen RT @jtroyer: @etherealmind Check out @withknown & http://indiewebcamp.com - open source, micro formats, distributed: not quite, but... (twitter.com/_/status/519130470689542145)
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@genehack http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention may be of interest to those of you that were talking about re-inventing Twitter over RSS. (twitter.com/_/status/519131168113840128)
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aaronpk_ jonnybarnes: does shaaaaaaaaaaaaa.com request the proper cert using SNI?
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jonnybarnes aaronpk_ I beleive so, it runs `openssl s_client -connect domain.com:443 -servername domain.com` to get the certs
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aaronpk_ it says the cert for this new site is not sha256, but ssllabs.com says it is
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barnabywalters aaronpk: I fixed the representative h-card algorithm in indiewebify me, currently only live on my instance: http://indiewebify.waterpigs.co.uk/validate-h-card/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com%2F
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aaronpk_ oh yay thanks!
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barnabywalters but the representative h-card matching algorithm is not at all robust
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Loqi woot
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aaronpk_ not robust? how?
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barnabywalters seeing as it doesn’t give any indication of how to match the URLs
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aaronpk_ exact match I assume?
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aaronpk_ (after relative URL resolution)
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barnabywalters e.g. removing the trailing slash, or replacing http with https both fail
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aaronpk_ http != https so that's ok that it fails
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barnabywalters aaronpk: not so, according to TBL
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aaronpk_ heh
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aaronpk_ but it is technically possible to serve different content
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aaronpk_ anyway worth raising those issues on the microformats wiki probably
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barnabywalters agreed
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barnabywalters the rel=me matching step is much more robust
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ben_thatmustbeme well darn... apparently i broke my whole MP endpoint
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ben_thatmustbeme apparently if you have a field display=none, it doesn't submit the data from it, but it will still submit a blank entry (overridding previous filled ones)
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ben_thatmustbeme i had multiple copies of the same input field and just turned on the one i needed
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aaronpk_ oh yeah I had something similar happen yesterday with html form
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aaronpk_ ss
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jonnybarnes what's the site?
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aaronpk_ it's a secret
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gRegor` aaronpk_: Thanks! The archive view is inspired by tumblr.
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Loqi gRegor`: tantek left you a message 9 hours, 42 minutes ago: add your indieweb archive example to http://indiewebcamp.com/archive#IndieWeb_Examples - when did you add support for archive page(s) to your site?
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cweiske.de edited /archive (+143) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /archive (+191) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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Loqi [mention] http://aws.lonngren.se/2014/known linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Known (webmention)
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@nobantu LastWeek of Regular Registration for #IIW XIX http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/ join us 4 #VRM #UMA #indieweb #identity #IoT #OAuth & More GR8 Topics (twitter.com/_/status/519145482975981568)
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@airbornesurfer Why I Joined the IndieWeb Movement http://airbornesurfer.com/?p=2766 https://twitter.com/airbornesurfer/status/519146275762352128/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/519146275762352128)
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Loqi [mention] http://evilgeniuschronicles.org/2014/10/06/evil-genius-chronicles-podcast-for-october-3-2014-stacks-and-heavyweights/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (pingback)
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Loqi [mention] http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/10/06/1/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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@gRegorLove @dentonjacobs Cool! Note that the location and time is different than in the past. http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/519154966707990529)
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Loqi [mention] http://gregorlove.com/notes/2014/10/06/2/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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@gRegorLove Join us for Homebrew Website Club this Wednesday! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club https://www.facebook.com/events/294885624030610/ cc @pitchdesign @marihuertas @dentonjacobs (twitter.com/_/status/519156397087285249)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/gRegorLove/519156397087285249/139199211 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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tantek good post: http://airbornesurfer.com/2014/10/why-i-joined-the-indieweb-movement/
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jdp23 good morning all
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gRegor` Morning, jdp23
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jdp23 manual POSSEing from known to ello (or PESOSing the other way around) requires some editing HTML to make it look good ...
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jonnybarnes is barnabywalters around?
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: bit busy with work right now, will be around in a bit
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@jdp23 An example of POSSEing between @withknown, #ello (manually), and twitter (automgically) #indieweb http://stream.tapestrymaker.net/2014/-womenwhotech-great-topic-on-ello-really-sad-to-hear (twitter.com/_/status/519172000011390976)
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: cool, ttyl then :)
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tantek jdp23 - could you add a brief "how to " re: what HTML editing is required to http://indiewebcamp.com/Ello#POSSE_to_Ello ?
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Loqi [mention] http://davidjohnmead.com/2014/10/06/silos-apps-bookmarklets-and-the-indieweb/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-02#t1412271031070 (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://davidjohnmead.com/2014/10/06/silos-apps-bookmarklets-and-the-indieweb/ linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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@davidmead Silo's, apps, bookmarklets, and the #indieweb: http://davidjohnmead.com/b/DK (twitter.com/_/status/519174814674599936)
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achangeiscoming.net edited /Ello (+946) "/* Jon Pincus */" (view diff)
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achangeiscoming.net edited /Ello (+11) "/* Jon Pincus */" (view diff)
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jdp23 good suggestion tantek. i'll work on a longer post later ...
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jdp23 and boom, instant spam :(
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jdp23 oh well
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jdp23 welcome to the internet
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/gRegorLove/519156397087285249/2612242482 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: fire away!
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jonnybarnes right, working on authorship algo for my webmentions parser and was looking at shrewdness, but I'm wondering if I've mucked up my own notes
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jonnybarnes see https://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjonnybarnes.uk%2Fnotes/3Y
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jonnybarnes yes I have I think, tantek's h-card shouldn't have a "p-author" should it?
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: yep, pretty sure tantek didn’t write that note :)
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: so I've corrected the p-author issue
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jonnybarnes however shrewdness still think's Tantek is the author
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barnabywalters in that case my authorship algorithm implementation is probably weighting embedded h-cards higher than following rel-author links, which is incorrect. can you raise an issue on http://github.com/barnabywalters/shrewdness please?
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barnabywalters I’m going to work on shrewdness tonight, and will try to get that fixed
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ben_thatmustbeme i think i've given up on my plan to have indie-config done by friday
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ben_thatmustbeme my original idea was to have "edit" and "delete" web actions done
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ben_thatmustbeme as well as it really should be extended with some way to tell the code how to tell the editor to route back to where it left off
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jonnybarnes opened barnabywalters
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barnabywalters thanks jonnybarnes!
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ben_thatmustbeme what sounds better microedit or pubedit for my micropub editor that i'm going to just break off in to its own small lib
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ben_thatmustbeme hmm, now i don't like either
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: random point, but shrewdness cacert bundle
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gRegor` ben_thatmustbeme: combine them. editedit :)
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jonnybarnes you've included startssl's bundle, do you really need all those CRLs at the end?
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: CRLs?
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ben_thatmustbeme gRegor` hah
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jonnybarnes https://github.com/barnabywalters/shrewdness/blob/master/mozilla-ca-certs.pem#L4442
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jonnybarnes the last like 2000 lines arent actually certificates
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: TBH I have no idea what they are. I just took the mozilla bundle and added the StartSSL certs. It worked, I didn’t look much closer :)
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jonnybarnes well, I think itll still work without those CRLs :)
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jonnybarnes also I got a response on that Guzzle issue I opened
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jonnybarnes he suggests I make a plugin for it
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jonnybarnes particularly because he said in the next release of guzzle he won't be bundling any certs with guzzle
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jonnybarnes it'll just use the system supplied certs
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@kyle_wm Challenge to #indieweb sites: if you choose to publish an XML feed, please include a mini-reply context somewhere in your reply posts. (twitter.com/_/status/519194401231228929)
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@efeefe Link: IndieWebCamp: /via @bernardodiasc http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/519197239403499520)
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@hugoroyd @benwerd and mozilla is hosting a lot of meetups these days, including for indieweb cc @ensowhat (twitter.com/_/status/519199399726317568)
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GWG Greetings tantek.
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GWG I am pleased that your life force continues.
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tantek hello
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tantek the feeling is mutual :)
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KevinMarks__ !tell barnabywalters can we chat on how to mark up h-feeds so that https://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/ makes podcatcher friendly ones - would be nice to round-trip podcasts through fund.unmung.com and yout hfeed to atom, adn to give guidance for h-feed podcast markup.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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GWG I am feeling frustrated.
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tantek GWG - how's your list?
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GWG I am starting to feel my vision and programming ability are mismatched
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tantek it's ok to work on smaller things
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GWG tantek, that's the problem.
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tantek which?
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GWG I think I need to improve some of my knowledge
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tantek so do we all :)
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GWG I meant specifically web programming.
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GWG I actually know little about Javascript and half the web uses it now.
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ben_thatmustbeme i figure there is always more to learn in tech, no matter who you are. One of the main reasons I try to make sure every job I get is a slightly different area than the last
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG, i found it easier to learn JS with jQuery to begin. I think its a bit easier to pick up
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tantek GWG - there's *very little* you "need" JS for.
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GWG tantek, how about PHP?
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tantek you can turn JS off and my site functions just fine for example - all functionlity
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tantek s/functionlity/functionality
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Loqi tantek meant to say: you can turn JS off and my site functions just fine for example - all functionality
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tantek GWG it is actually more important to learn how to make your site work *without* JS, than it is to learn JS>
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tantek s/>/.
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Loqi tantek meant to say: GWG it is actually more important to learn how to make your site work *without* JS, than it is to learn JS.
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG whats on your todo list?
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tantek what is on your to do list GWG?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "on your to do list GWG" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=on+your+to+do+list+GWG
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme, since I am working with Wordpress, PHP and CSS improvements.
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GWG I know both, but need to improve.
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tantek GWG is http://indiewebcamp.com/User:David.shanske.com#For_the_Future what you're working on?
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ben_thatmustbeme i always found wordpress to be pretty messy code wise
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GWG tantek, some.
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GWG ben_thatmustbeme, too many cooks?
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tantek GWG - my first suggestion is to add a new section to your user page, "Working On" which is very *present* focused, as in what are the few (just 2-3 to start with) things you are thinking about and actively working on right now
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GWG tantek, I had some thoughts this week on refining.
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tantek even just start a "Working On" section with *one* item
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ben_thatmustbeme too many cooks. very likely.
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GWG tantek I tend to jump around
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tantek GWG - among how many things?
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't think i'm going to have time for all the fun stuff i was hoping to get done in time for IWC
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tantek GWG - I'm trying to help with the problem of "feeling frustrated"
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tantek what if before you jump to something, you made yourself update the "Working On" section on your user page to put that thing on the top of the list?
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ben_thatmustbeme GWG, one thing that helped me was having my ToDo list, much more detailed. even though it made this list go from like 5 to 30 items, getting things checked off really felt good
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GWG Right now, fixing the three plugins that I feel are held together with Chicken wire
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GWG I need to rewrite sections of code that are long sets of nested conditionals
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GWG I need to remove a bad decision that I made and decide on the right one
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GWG It is mostly the long set of nested if statements that makes me think that there is a better way.
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GWG So it comes to me having an idea of what is wrong, but needing missing knowledge to write the improvement.
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GWG davidmead, read your post
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davidmead GWG: did it make sense? i tend to ramble
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GWG davidmead, I think I understand what you want.
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davidmead GWG: cool :-)
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GWG I am going to go back to work. I will be on later contemplating my spaghetti code.
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GWG I need to stare at it a bit.
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davidmead GWG: lol. better you than me coding :-)
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tantek GWG - what you typed above looks like a good start on a "Working On" section - any objection to adding that to http://indiewebcamp.com/User:David.shanske.com
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ben_thatmustbeme so tired
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ben_thatmustbeme today has just been a kinda BLAH day
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@PabloCawen Do you know about IndieWeb? http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/519213381316648960)
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Loqi [mention] http://pablocawen.withknown.com/2014/do-you-know-about-indieweb- linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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bret kylewm: I'm with you on reply context
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bret my xml feed needs some lovin
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tantek bret - don't you mean your xml feed needs some auto-generation?
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neuro` Good morning tantek
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bret the auto generator is badly implemented and out of sync with my html version
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tantek good evening neuro` !
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bret lazy/fogot
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tantek bret - which? barnaby?
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neuro` How're you going?
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bret oh nah, that works great
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bret but most people subscribe to the one I advertise in my metadata
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bret advertised
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bret i have a dry violation and generate an xml page
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bret in addition to an index page
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tantek bret - perhaps advertise the auto-generated one in your metadata
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tantek bret - I have the same dry violation currently
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bret i put up a roadblock to do my own h-feed to atom service, but I should just do that rather than a crappy feed
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tantek except the xml page is a subset because Atom is bloated compared to HTML (ironically), and feed readers overpoll.
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tantek did barnabywalters open source his?
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bret i don't have a php env I can throw it on
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bret would have to set that up
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tantek is that something the free level of appengine or heroku can do?
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snarfed yes to both
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snarfed but more importantly…
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snarfed barnabywalters++ for already implementing an h-feed-to-atom service
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Loqi barnabywalters has 72 karma
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bret heroku did php?
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snarfed i was going to a while back, but stopped when he launched his
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snarfed bret: https://www.heroku.com/features
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bret new project! one click deploy to heroku of barnaby's thingy
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snarfed bret++
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Loqi bret has 31 karma
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bret technically the PuSH Ping should be enough to wake it up and send the PuSH publish event
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bret (*i think*)
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tantek unless you care (and are keeping metrics) about who / what IP / what UA is polling your legacy feed files, we really should offload that kind of thing to proxies
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tantek welcome back barnabywalters
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barnabywalters greetings tantek
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tantek we were just talking about you :)
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Loqi barnabywalters: KevinMarks__ left you a message 1 hour, 16 minutes ago: can we chat on how to mark up h-feeds so that https://waterpigs.co.uk/services/microformats-to-atom/ makes podcatcher friendly ones - would be nice to round-trip podcasts through fund.unmung.com and yout hfeed to atom, adn to give guidance for h-feed podcast markup.
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barnabywalters [nervous laugh]
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bret barnabywalters: I wanna turn your h-feed to atom service into a one click heroku deploy
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bret and your micropub client
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bret cause why not
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bret and openshift, and appfog etc whatever
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snarfed KevinMarks_: fund.unmung.com? indieweb VC fund? :P
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snarfed sign me up to be an LP
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bret Crap, Need to read over the Social WG changes
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carmen maybe Social WG is just a make-work thing by overtalktative PhDs ?
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tantek bret - what happened?
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tantek carmen - I for one don't have a PhD
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bret I never read through the https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams changes from last week
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tantek bret - ah, the AS2 changes - that's different
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tantek I thought you meant some changes in the WG itself
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bret my mistake
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bret the AS2 formatting changes were the primary focus for this week right?
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carmen USENET, BBSes, email, we socialnetworked for decade w/o the "social" branding-buzzword bandied about or theoretical metagroups holding teleconferences about proposed-standards
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carmen i mean, i read the notes off http://www.w3.org/Social/WG so i proably have some lkind of mental illness
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carmen mainly the one where i don't believe in signing NDAs or owrking on bloated shit like Mozilla so i have no job.. ever..
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tantek carmen - those notes are too highlevel to make the distinctions
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tantek social *web* has certainly changed greatly over the past ten years
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tantek and has much functionality far above / beyond USENET, BBSes, email
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tantek carmen - well, we can help with your own site at least. what's your personal domain?
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barnabywalters bret: awesome! I can give you the (PHP) code now if you want, or make it into a package which we can both use, so improvements get applied everywhere it’s used
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bret barnabywalters: does it have a repo that it lives in?
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barnabywalters bret: not yet, part of (unreleased) taproot code so far
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bret No rush, but getting that broken out, I can try to fork it and get it running on heroku
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bret even if it doesn't work on its own yet
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barnabywalters bret: okay, I dumped the h-entry processing code (quite primitive compared to shrewdness), template and controller logic in a gist: https://gist.github.com/barnabywalters/1640f384112ddebba2bf
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barnabywalters it’s not particularly coherent so let me know if you have any trouble
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bret barnabywalters: I'm new to php so its going to be a learning experience for me
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barnabywalters bret: okay, well, this is not exactly exemplary code
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barnabywalters what languages are you familiar with? it might be more effective to take the template and re-create it in another language
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barnabywalters the most complex thing which is happening is the microformats cleaning
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barnabywalters a task which I’m still in the process of refining, but that work is now happening in shrewdness
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@danlyke @benwerd shouldn't a @withknown user chatroom be POSSE and probably Webmention based? (And how can I help do this?) #eatourowndogfood (twitter.com/_/status/519228809321525248)
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@benwerd @danlyke A real-time webmention endpoint doesn't sound _too_ hard, and makes a lot of sense. Would love to chat about it! (twitter.com/_/status/519229056747704320)
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tantek notes that aaronpk already *has* real-time endpoint that works to *display* in real time comments on his notes
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tantek benwerd ^^^
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benwerd tantek: I was thinking about exactly that
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benwerd Potentially something to play with / ask about this weekend
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tantek AFAIK aaronpk is the only that has gotten that working
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tantek and when it does work, watching it is like magic
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benwerd agree
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tantek not too different from our IRC logs ;)
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benwerd There's a lot to be said for more real-time interactions
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benwerd And the IRC logs are the best in the world, period
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tantek of course, there's something to be said for real time *home page* updates too
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tantek so if someone is looking atyour home page and you post a note - it just show sup
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benwerd tantek: definitely
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tantek having that working would be a good thing to show against twitter
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tantek or whoever
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aaronpk_ I was thinking about doing that the other day
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tantek aaronpk - that would be cool for this weekend
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aaronpk_ when I shared the permalink for the day
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tantek along with document the "How to"
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aaronpk_ it's actually surprisingly not hard
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tantek emphasis on the documenting - since no one else has gotten it working
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tantek aaronpk - it's surprisingly non-obvious since no one else has done it
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barnabywalters shrewdness columns automatically update, based on polling rather than fancy websockets though
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tantek polling--
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Loqi polling has -1 karma
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gRegor` what is real-time webmention endpoint?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "real-time webmention endpoint" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=real-time+webmention+endpoint
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KevinMarks__ I meant feed.unmung.com, but making an indieweb angelist syndicate might be an idea
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benwerd aaronpk_ what powers the real-time? Is it server-sent events, or something else?
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aaronpk_ it's a node app listening on a separate port
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benwerd ah
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aaronpk_ websockets
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benwerd nods
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benwerd thanks. interesting
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aaronpk_ basically the browser opens a websockets connection then tells the server the URL of the page it's on, and the server sends blobs of HTML whenever there's comments on that URL
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aaronpk_ it's backed by redis which does the pub/sub stuff to avoid getting into multiplexing hell in code
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aaronpk_ oh and since my webmention handler is PHP, I still get to use PHP for rendering the HTML of the comments, and PHP just pushes the HTML into redis
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aaronpk_ redis is a nice bridge between PHP and node
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: as per you comment on the shrwedness issue, should my h-card on my homepage have a u-url link to jonnybarnes.uk?
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@danlyke @benwerd WebMention scares me, but it seems like we should build a tool that is indieweb rather than reinventing forums. (twitter.com/_/status/519243668759138304)
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: I think so — either that or consumers need a defined algorithm for figuring out the canonical URL for an h-card
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barnabywalters …
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barnabywalters which, incidentally, is a purpose served by the u-uid property we were discussing earlier and in #microformats
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anomalily Okay, so I'm pretty sure that I just need to make my own calendar that conforms to h-event standards
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bret barnabywalters: re code notes above... noted. will check it out to see what makes sense
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anomalily Because I cannot make any other solution work
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barnabywalters anomalily: what are you trying to do?
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jonnybarnes is there a u-uid spec/wiki articel around?
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jonnybarnes I hereby announce that article is spelt articel!
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jonnybarnes it looks better
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barnabywalters artikel
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: u-uid is mentioned in http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card
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jonnybarnes excellent
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jonnybarnes "unique identifier"...
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tantek and by convention we've been using canonical URLs for that
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bret but theoretically you could use the has of the quantum time function
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bret hash*
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bret >:]
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tantek redirect bret to #indiechat :P
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barnabywalters at long last, shrewdness finally correctly parses tantek’s weird homepage authorship markup! https://shrewdness.waterpigs.co.uk/test/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com
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barnabywalters now I can get on with more important things :P
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tantek wait what's weird about it? I thought I made it simple again :P
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barnabywalters having a page-level h-card and no rel-author but p-author properties which are the URL of the h-card on the same page
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tantek oh weird I thought I had backed that out
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tantek barnabywalters: apologies I thought I had changed that back
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tantek because you're right, it's weird markup for authorship
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jonnybarnes barnabywalters: you know your getAuthor() method, silly question, but what does it actually return?
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tantek an h-card?
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jonnybarnes laike maybe JSON equivalent to the output of \Mf2\parse()
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: it returns either an h-card array structure, or a string if only a reference can be found
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barnabywalters jonnybarnes: here’s an example of how I use it in shrewdness: https://github.com/barnabywalters/shrewdness/blob/master/src/app.php#L220
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tantek barnabywalters: what about this instead? <a class="p-author h-card" href="/"></a>
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barnabywalters tantek: that’ll just result in a weird h-card, which OTTOMH I think my code won’t handle
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tantek at least it will be an h-card with a *url* property of http://tantek.com/
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tantek rather than an *author* property of value http://tantek.com/
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barnabywalters if you can’t put anything complete (e.g. name and url at the very least) in the author property of each h-entry, just add a rel-author link to /
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tantek ok
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tantek that's less code, so that's better advice for a publisher
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tantek home page updated with rel=author
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tantek and no more u-author
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tantek barnabywalters: reload tantek.com in shrewdness and find out what happens!
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barnabywalters tantek: yay! it still works!
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Loqi giggles
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tantek whoa - then you're supporting rel=author!
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tantek that's great!
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barnabywalters oh yeah, been supporting rel-author for a while now
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barnabywalters will also fetch rel-author and parse for representative h-card if no h-card on the page has a matching URL
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tantek neat!
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barnabywalters shrewdness’s h-entry/h-feed parsing is quite robust. still more work to do though
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tantek does it optimize for when rel=author refers to the same page?
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barnabywalters at least, more before it can be extracted into a separate package
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tantek which is likely for most home pages?
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barnabywalters tantek: I think so, can’t remember OTTOMH
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GWG I have returned again
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tantek kylewm, jdp23 have you guys coordinated and resolve on HWC SF for Wednesday?
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tantek s/resolve/resolved
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Loqi tantek meant to say: kylewm, jdp23 have you guys coordinated and resolved on HWC SF for Wednesday?
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@misuba The corpses of open-source distributed-social-network projects are really starting to pile up. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/519262005522206721)
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@djp1974 RT @misuba: The corpses of open-source distributed-social-network projects are really starting to pile up. #indieweb @rustyk5 (twitter.com/_/status/519262258556194817)
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tantek what's the best way to respond to a tweet like that? ask for specific list of names/URLs of "dead" open-source distributed-social-network projects ?
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jonnybarnes my auth algo now passes a load of theoretic tests
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jonnybarnes now I need to go through them and see how standard the output is and then try it on some real sites
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tantek wishes his posting UI made it easier to quick reply to tweets like that
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jonnybarnes by the discussion just now tantek.com could be a good bet :)
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GWG tantek, what would be necessary for you to do that?
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tantek GWG - building a reply endpoint and posting UI on my site. farther down on my list than what I'm currently working on.
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KevinMarks__ ask him to add them to site-deaths where all the closed source dead ones are listed?
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tantek KevinMarks: project deaths != site deaths
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tantek very different
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tantek I'd just ask for a list of names and URLs of the projects, and then we can update pages for each name
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GWG tantek, I would like one of those too. I am hoping certain things catch up with my desire.
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KevinMarks__ is that retweet a dig at rusty?
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tantek GWG - you at least have a poting UI :)
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tantek who is rusty?
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GWG tantek, writing a posting UI is on my list though
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tantek GWG - but you already have one - in WordPress
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thierrymarianne tantek: It's funny how this place is a sort of observatory on the outdoors except that this IRC chan also forms part of the subject of observation.
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KevinMarks__ he runs kuro5hin
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GWG tantek that is an article posting UI
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GWG I want a simple note UI
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Loqi gives GWG a simple note UI
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kylewm am here
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Loqi kylewm: jdp23 left you a message on 10/4 at 11:57pm: is there a good time to sync up on the HWC meeting? we need to pick a place etc. etc.
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tantek I see jdp23 updated http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club
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KevinMarks__ looks like he's self-justifying choosing the new ello silo https://twitter.com/misuba/status/512809104880857090
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@misuba OK, new plan. Screw thehaus, screw Known. We need a centralized alternative with momentum, only not sucky. And we have it. I have invites. (twitter.com/_/status/512809104880857090)
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tantek GWG - yes - I understand.
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GWG Loqi, geh shlog dein kup en vant.
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Loqi :)
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kylewm !tell jdp23 La Boulange works, let's go forward with that
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek KevinMarks: thank you for the forensics. We can leave that feedback to benwerd.
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GWG tantek, that's what Jeremy Zilar was working on at IWC.
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tantek kylewm: want to optimistically update the wiki page as such as well? and add yourself to RSVP?
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tantek I think jdp23 said he would post an indie event and POSSE FB copy
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@kevinmarks @djp1974 @misuba @rustyk5 do you have a list? Because the pile of dead centralised sites is pretty big: http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (twitter.com/_/status/519265677689880576)
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kylewm.com edited /events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club (-124) "/* Where */ update to confirm La Boulange" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club (-7) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__ kylewm: you could post an indie event on knwon.kevinmarks.com if you like (I think you logged in there)
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KevinMarks__ look who I found: http://known.kevinmarks.com/profile/melkirk
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kylewm KevinMarks__: ha, I didn't know I could *post* on your known. will do
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carmen Accept-Post helps inform client of capabilities
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carmen http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wilde-accept-post-02
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Loqi [mention] http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/homebrew-website-club-october-8-2014 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-08-13-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://known.kevinmarks.com/2014/homebrew-website-club-october-8-2014 linked to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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kylewm.com edited /events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club (+20) "/* RSVP */ add "add yourself..." under SF" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club (+52) "/* URLs */ add indie-event for SF" (view diff)
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kylewm KevinMarks++ for letting me use his website :P
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Loqi KevinMarks has 65 karma
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kylewm I see why nobody ever wants to post these events...
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KevinMarks__ they are a bit fiddly
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KevinMarks__ using FB's editor is easier than Known's, sadly
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kylewm.com edited /events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club (+30) "/* URLs */ adding the facebook URL" (view diff)
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@caseorganic In Boston for #cyborgcamp and #indiewebcamp at MIT this week. Only a few tickets left: http://t.co/6tcWKIfMBk! https://twitter.com/caseorganic/status/519270758141665280/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/519270758141665280)
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@hertling RT @caseorganic: In Boston for #cyborgcamp and #indiewebcamp at MIT this week. Only a few tickets left: http://t.co/6tcWKIfMBk! http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/519270791498579968)
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KevinMarks__ I get kyle in autocomplete in my known now
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@aaronpk @misuba Indeed, that's why we prefer creating small building blocks rather than http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture projects. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/519271089428373504)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/10/06/1/indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture (webmention)
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aaronpk_ FB's event creation UI is actually pretty good. I plan to take a lot of inspiration from it when I develop an event UI
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@ShaneHudson @LeaVerou Hey Lea, you're at MIT now right? How's it going? There is a #indiewebcamp there this week, you should pop along! :) (twitter.com/_/status/519271443126059010)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/rsvp/facebook/12802152/1531429417103947/12802152 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-10-08-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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@labfly RT @caseorganic: In Boston for #cyborgcamp and #indiewebcamp at MIT this week. Only a few tickets left: http://t.co/6tcWKIfMBk! http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/519271536159887360)
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@ablerism RT @caseorganic: In Boston for #cyborgcamp and #indiewebcamp at MIT this week. Only a few tickets left: http://t.co/6tcWKIfMBk! http://t.co… (twitter.com/_/status/519272263364124672)
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kylewm KevinMarks__: Known's UI isn't perfect but they have a leg up on the rest of us by having one at all :)
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kylewm ohh I am getting notification emails from known.kevinmarks.com now
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/aaronpk/519271089428373504/2149850018 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/monoculture (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/519265677689880576/71647024 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (webmention)