#indiewebcamp 2014-08-01

2014-08-01 UTC
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kartikprabhu.com edited /citation (+371) "/* User Interface */ added my pemalink UI and fragmention getter demo" (view diff)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /citation (+1) "correct sectioning" (view diff)
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willnorris okay, more accurately it was a combination of uf1+uf2 syntax, plus the fact that I was using <data> elements. Some combination of that isn’t playing nice
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@codyaray @aaronpk: does IndieAuth not support OpenID2? Finally upgrading my MyOpenId to IndieAuth but noticing some of my favorite forums don't work (twitter.com/_/status/495000581602168833)
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KartikPrabhu is indieauth supposed to support openid?
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tantek I wonder which forums depend on OpenID2 and can we get that forum software to simply support IndieAuth directly
johncash, snarfed, nagaway, emmak, mdik, pauloppenheim, gRegor`, crossdiver, willnorris, himannylopez, KevinMarks, yakker, lukebrooker, fmarier, iboxifoo, j12t, kylewm, j12t_, protman, KartikPrabhu and wolftune joined the channel
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KevinMarks Re .uk domains, apparently other 2nd level domains can have rights too. Attempting to register andrewmarks.me.uk to get andrewmarks.uk
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KevinMarks !tell willnorris I thought Google stopped displaying rel author photos in SERPs
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
KevinMarks, wolftune, yakker, arlen, tantek, fourtonfish, nagaway, cweiske, snarfed, himannylopez, npdoty, chrissaad, eschnou, KevinMarks2, techlifeweb, cweiske_, tilgovi, crossdiver, j12t, michielbdejong and Kopfstein joined the channel
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voxpelli !tell willnorris Seems like the microformat library I'm using, https://github.com/glennjones/microformat-node, didn't detect your h-card, but seems like you've adapted your markup so that it will in the future
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@t3extensions A new TYPO3 extension has been published: indieweb version 0.1.0, compatible with TYPO3 6.0.x to 6.2.x (twitter.com/_/status/495126844002562048)
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@t3extensions A new TYPO3 extension has been published: indieweb version 0.1.0, compatible with TYPO3 6.0.x to 6.2.x (twitter.com/_/status/495126844002562048)
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@nchenga RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: I made a list at http://indiewebcamp.com/twitter#features of things I'd need to build to stop using https://twitter.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/495126935648104448)
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@nchenga RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @t: I made a list at http://indiewebcamp.com/twitter#features of things I'd need to build to stop using https://twitter.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/495126935648104448)
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@nchenga Only provide permashortlinks (...) when they link to an the orig. post w/ more content than in the POSSE tweet copy. http://indiewebcamp.com/twitter?utm_content=buffer3a225&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer#features (twitter.com/_/status/495145450790330368)
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hmans Anyone have a beautiful h-entry post for me to parse?
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hmans http://davidjohnmead.com/2014/07/05/ive-just-bought-lfoufo-by-saul-stokes-music/ will do.
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@pierreozoux Moving to #IndieWeb! http://www.pierre-o.fr/blog/2014/07/30/indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/495152770945929216)
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voxpelli hmans: there's a collection of real-world h-entries at https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger
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hmans I'm good, thanks
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hmans The Wiki had a list of links.
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hmans What should I be supporting as fallbacks if I can't find and parse mf2?
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voxpelli hmans: in the case of webmentions or?
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hmans Yeah
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hmans Processing incoming webmentions
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voxpelli I would probably just take the title of the page and use the time of the fetch as the published date
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voxpelli But I'm not sure if I'm taking the title in my webmention endpoint – I know I'm setting the published date as the fetch time at least
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voxpelli !tell willnorris Would be great to have your new markup in the https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger test suite, would it be okay to add it there?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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voxpelli hmans: the point of the real world h-entries are btw, as you point out yourself, that it's the variations and deviations from the "perfect" h-entry that's the most difficult to adapt to :)
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hmans Of course.
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hmans I'm using the microformats2 Ruby gem to see how far it gets me with real-life examples.
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hmans Thing is, #pants is also an aggregator, so when a user receives a webmention, the source entry will be pushed to their timeline/mobile client/etc.
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hmans So it's following a fallback chain
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hmans first, it looks for its own JSON format
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hmans if it can't find it, it will move on to microformats2. And I'm undecided where to go next. Tempted to even just manually parse the page if no formats at all can be found.
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voxpelli hmans: fall back to Open Graph data? That's what Facebook, Twitter etc use
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@jkphl Finally managed to launch an #IndieWeb #TYPO3 extension, spinning off features of my site, starting w/ #Webmentions http://typo3.org/extensions/repository/view/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/495159629010464768)
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Loqi barnabywalters: tantek left you a message on 7/31 at 4:17pm: so now that top level .uk registrations have opened up, are you going to get waterpigs.uk ? /short-domains#uk
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barnabywalters !tell tantek RE waterpigs.uk: I’ve considered it, but don’t live in the UK (or plan to), so if I was to move domain it would be to something more portable :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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ben_thatmustbeme i like .me
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ben_thatmustbeme don't really care what country domains are for honestly
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ben_thatmustbeme I am not in Montenegro
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cweiske_ question is how easy it is for authorities or other people to seize your domain
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cweiske_ so choosing a good country is important
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm not really putting anything on there that would matter if its seized.
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ben_thatmustbeme oh wait, my domain. meh. If an actual country on the other side of the planet wants to take my domain away. I think it would be more bragging rights than anything
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voxpelli a good reason perhaps to have multiple domains represents ones identity – making it all less fragile
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ben_thatmustbeme very true
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@voxpelli @pierreozoux Great to see another GitHub Pages based indiewebber! I myself am on a Jekyll + https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ setup (twitter.com/_/status/495218300784496643)
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snarfed kylewm: excited about the flickr dropin! any chance you have a demo app running?
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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gRegor` Morning, indiewebcamp
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snarfed hey gRegor`
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voxpelli evening gRegor`
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@aaronpk @codyaray https://indieauth.com/ does not support OpenID 2. I'm curious which sites you're using support OpenID 2... http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/08/01/1/ (twitter.com/_/status/495224321812336640)
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hmans #pants sites now serve a h-card. \o/
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barnabywalters resists the temptation to ask “what is pants”
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barnabywalters hmans: pants is looking great! especially good to see that the hosted instance doesn’t just give out subdomains but encourages people to bring their own
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Loqi willnorris: KevinMarks left you a message 11 hours, 54 minutes ago: I thought Google stopped displaying rel author photos in SERPs
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Loqi willnorris: voxpelli left you a message 7 hours, 44 minutes ago: Seems like the microformat library I'm using, https://github.com/glennjones/microformat-node, didn't detect your h-card, but seems like you've adapted your markup so that it will in the future
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hmans thanks! Well, it's possible to set it up to allow users to create subdomains under a domain you're providing, and I may even go that route myself soon simply in order to encourage more people to try it, but I really want to push people to stick to their own identities as much as possible for obvious reasons.
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Loqi willnorris: voxpelli left you a message 5 hours, 7 minutes ago: Would be great to have your new markup in the https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger test suite, would it be okay to add it there?
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willnorris !tell KevinMarks I think they’re dropping the profile image from SERPs, but still showing minimal name-only authorship (http://searchengineland.com/google-plays-authorship-search-results-dropping-profile-image-google-circle-count-195163)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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willnorris voxpelli: yeah, I’m mucking with my h-card a lot right now so that will fix my immediate issue. If you don’t have a cached copy of the problematic markup, I’ll try reverting my changes and get you a test case to add to testpinger
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voxpelli willnorris: I only have a copy of the parsed result, not of the source, if you think original should be supported then I'll happily add it there – otherwise I'll could add your new one when you're done
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willnorris oh, you know what… I know what the problem was. I had p-author but not h-card. I noticed that later, and forgot. My final markup will likely be very similar to aaronpk’s, but yeah I’ll send over a sample later
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Loqi tantek: barnabywalters left you a message 1 hour, 40 minutes ago: RE waterpigs.uk: I’ve considered it, but don’t live in the UK (or plan to), so if I was to move domain it would be to something more portable :)
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willnorris ah, tantek… was about to leave you a message…
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willnorris regarding our discussion yesterday about Google authorship… have you seen the verified email approach (option 1 at https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/1408986). The interesting part about that is that is relies on visible markup on the page, rather than some non-visible link somewhere.
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tantek good morning willnorris!
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willnorris morning :)
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tantek the rel=author to your home page + rel=me to your G+ profile is not documented but does work as I remember the discussions early on, and it's the only way I've ever implemented it on my site
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willnorris no, doesn’t seem to work on your site… I tested it yesterday
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tantek willnorris: it used to
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willnorris hmph
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tantek I don't know how you "test" it
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tantek as in - I used to see search results with my face
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tantek if they broke it that's their fault
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willnorris https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/richsnippets?q=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2F2014%2F207%2Ft2%2Fdeploy-fragmention-indieweb-showdonttell
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tantek the validator does not actually test what the search engine shows
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tantek different codebases
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tantek the spider parser != validator parser
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tantek nor the display
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willnorris well, the removal of photos from SERPs was publicly announced a week or two ago
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tantek was the removal of results also announced?
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gRegor` what is SERP?
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willnorris no idea about that
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willnorris search engine result page
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tantek site-specific search results got MUCH WORSE in the past few weeks
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tantek LOTS of pages/results were lost
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willnorris yeah, I saw you mention that yesterday. Haven’t had a chance to look into it yet
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tantek e.g. https://www.google.com/search?as_sitesearch=tantek.com&tbs=sbd%3A1%2Ccdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1970&q=kpsf&gws_rd=ssl used to find all my mentions of KPSF
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tantek now it only finds my post from this week: http://tantek.com/2014/208/t1/finished-sf-half-marathon
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tantek whereas it used to find my first use of KPSF as well: http://tantek.com/2014/033/t2/finished-first-halfmarathon-rain-cold-wind
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tantek so that's an obvious concrete example
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tantek there are tons more
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willnorris https://www.google.com/search?as_sitesearch=tantek.com&q=kpsf gives a few more results, along with a “show omitted results” link
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tantek something like half the results from my site are now gone
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willnorris I just removed all but the as_sitesearch= and q= params
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tantek willnorris - so that's a bug then
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tantek also - note that both show authorship
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barnabywalters so it looks like &filter=0 can be added to automatically show the omitted results
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tantek e.g. just below the green link it says "by Tantek Çelik"
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tantek so yes, my authorship works just fine
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tantek the richsnippets validator is crap
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tantek people don't realize that
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willnorris ah, good point about authorship showing. I’ll try and track down who owns the validator and see if that can be fixed
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tantek oh and the "by Tantek Çelik" in the results does link to my G+ profile
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tantek also the validator claims to find tons of schema objects which are completely ignore by actual search
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tantek like 99% of schema is completely ignored by search.
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tantek (I mean, as it should be, as most of schema was just made up object hierarchy crap)
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tantek barnabywalters: trying &filter=0 now
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barnabywalters tantek: ??? https://www.google.com/search?as_sitesearch=tantek.com&q=kpsf&filter=0
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tantek &filter=0 does not help on date scoped search
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tantek barnabywalters: so first note the Feb 2014 results in that list - got it? there are several
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tantek now click "Search Tools", and then click "Any time v" and choose "Past year"
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barnabywalters indeed, all of which are missing in the “date scoped” search
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tantek note that the Feb 2014 results are no longer shown
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tantek despite Feb 2014 being within the past year
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tantek as well as "since 1970-01-01" which is what I scope my date scoped / ordered search to
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tantek so basically Google broke date scoped/ordered search in the past few weeks / months
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tantek willnorris: can you report that search regression ^^^
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willnorris will do
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tantek thanks!
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Jeena omg Facebook is down!!
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tantek I saw that! briefly! did you screenshot? I thought it was just me
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tantek looks back now
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gRegor` Darn
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Jeena no screenshot, it just doesn't load for me
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barnabywalters didn’t it go down a few weeks ago?
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barnabywalters http://isup.me/facebook.com
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tantek yup - lots of FB stuff is failing, search stuck on "Retrieving Suggestions…"
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gRegor` I have a screenshot of Firefox's "server taking too long to respond" if you want
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tantek ok I'll upload the generic error message I'm seeing
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Jeena hehe even my own page doesn't allow me to post anything new because I was stupid enough to code it wrong so it would redirect me to facebook to log in
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gRegor` FB won't even load
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "update next HWC link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Homebrew_Website_Club (+65) "stuck in a reminder to update MediaWiki:Sidebar" (view diff)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:FB something wrong 2014-08-01.png]]""
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bear tantek - like this: https://bear.im/photos/facebook_is_down.png ?
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tantek bear nice
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tantek yours is better with the URL - go ahead and upload to the wiki
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Jeena haha "Meanwhile, their twitter feed says, 'If anyone knows how to my SQL [sic] please FB us!'"
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Loqi rofl
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barnabywalters aaaaaand it’s back up
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tantek https://twitter.com/facebook/with_replies
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bear.im uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:facebook is down 20140801.png]]""
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bear @tantek ^^
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tantek checks logs
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+372) "/* Criticism */ downtime" (view diff)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:FB group down 2014-08-01.png]]""
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+65) "/* Criticism */ group page down screenshot" (view diff)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:FB notifications dropdown not loading 2014-08-01.png]]""
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tantek.com deleted /File:FB_notifications_dropdown_not_loading_2014-08-01.png "wrong screenshot"
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:FB notifications dropdown not loading 2014-08-01.png]]""
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+191) "/* Criticism */ notifications not loading" (view diff)
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tantek ok that's probably enough screenshots for now - if anyone sees any other failure screenshots - please report back!
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tantek or just add them to http://indiewebcamp.com/Facebook#Criticism
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tantek.com edited /Facebook (+5) "/* Downtime */ approximate window" (view diff)
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tantek hmans: did you get the answers you were looking for, for what to do if you don't find an h-entry?
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tantek interesting, FB Messenger (iOS app) is also not working for me
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tantek must be some sort of major Facebook outage
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tantek longest I've seen their unreliability go
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tantek or rather - seems unreliable. try sending a message. fail. try again, worked second time.
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tantek now trying another recipient
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tantek two failed sends in a row to 2nd recipient
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bear yea, I can't reach any of my FB ops friends - so I suspect it's a "all hands on deck" issue
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willnorris.com uploaded /File:googleplus-authorship.png "screenshot from Google's Structured Data Testing Tool showing authorship link"
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willnorris.com edited /authorship (+60) "include screenshot of google authorship linkage" (view diff)
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willnorris tantek: so the rel=author to homepage, and then rel=me to g+ profile is in fact documented in the rich snippet tool (sort of). I had never set it up this way for some reason.
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tantek willnorris: I think the docs are buried then because they'd rather that every post link directly to a G+ profile (desperate to send more traffic to G+)
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willnorris I think you’re wrong, but whatever
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tantek why require the G+ profile at all?
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tantek to display authorship? that's the real problem I have with Google's implementation
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tantek do you have a link to the announcement where Google Search said they are no longer showing faces with authorship information in SERPs?
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willnorris oh sure, that is a completely fair criticism. I just don’t think the docs are buried out of desparation to drive traffic
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willnorris yeah, lemme find it
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tantek ok that's fair
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tantek perhaps we can help by directly linking to the docs that show how to use rel=author to your domain plus rel=me from your domain to your G+ profile
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willnorris announcement: https://plus.google.com/+JohnMueller/posts/PDkPdPtjL6j search engine land coverage, which shows before and after: http://searchengineland.com/google-plays-authorship-search-results-dropping-profile-image-google-circle-count-195163
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tantek hey snarfed, any Bridgy results from Facebook in the past hour? how are the logs looking?
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snarfed tantek: i'm seeing the same problems as everyone
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snarfed https://developers.facebook.com/status/
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tantek wonders if Bridgy "noticed" FB being down
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snarfed of course it did! e.g. https://www.brid.gy/facebook/214611
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snarfed here's a bridgy error graph for the last 3h. the orange is all fb. https://snarfed.org/fb.png
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brainTrain ah bummer I was gonna start playing around with the facebook API today :(
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tantek snarfed - that's a pretty good graph - what units are the Y axis? and any chance of capturing that with absolute times so we can archive it?
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snarfed tantek: y axis is qps, and don't hold your breath for absolute times, sorry, but feel free to use it
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tantek reads about Bridgy POSSE to FB
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brainTrain the tool tip says average response time
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snarfed but honestly, why use bridgy's graphs when you can use fb's own? https://developers.facebook.com/status/
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tantek snarfed - trusting external source more than self-reporting?
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snarfed tantek: there's that cynicism we know and love :P
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brainTrain it's highcharts! my favorite frienemy
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tantek decides this is a good opportunity to test Bridgy Publish POSSE to FB
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snarfed tantek is funny
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brainTrain looks like these facebook guys didn't wanna set the y-axis to be dynamic, it'd be interesting to see how high that latency has got
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tantek snarfed - just trying to balance the cynicism with some optimisim ;)
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snarfed bridgy fb posse may actually work right now. based on the details
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tantek ooh I like the rel=me confirmation UI on https://www.brid.gy/facebook/214611
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snarfed er, misfire. based on the outage details, it looks like you may have more trouble seeing the post afterward than actually posting it yourself
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snarfed thanks!
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tantek goes to set Bridgy to Publish on FB, gives permissions, realizes too late that FB default for posting is set to "Friends"
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snarfed doh!
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tantek goes to https://www.facebook.com/settings?tab=applications, clicks "edit" next to "Brid.gy", changes "Visibility of app" from "Friends" to "Public", clicks "Close" and hopes that works.
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tantek snarfed - does publish to FB preserve whitespace?
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snarfed tantek: do you mean, newlines?
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tantek asks before clicking the "Send"
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tantek newlines, several space characters in a row, space characters at start of a line etc.
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snarfed i believe so. it will send whatever you saw in the preview.
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snarfed (modulo browser whitespace rendering, etc)
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tantek oh so if I view source I can see...
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tantek hmm - not seeing it
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snarfed looking at the log for your preview, yes, it preserved the whitespace. https://www.brid.gy/log?start_time=1406913557&key=aglzfmJyaWQtZ3lybwsSDVB1Ymxpc2hlZFBhZ2UiSGh0dHA6Ly90YW50ZWsuY29tLzIwMTQvMjEwL3QxL3RyYWNrYXR0YWNrLXdhcm11cC1sYXBzLWZpcnN0LXRpbWUtZGlkLWFsbAwLEgdQdWJsaXNoGICAgICAgIAKDA
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snarfed no promises on what fb will do though
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snarfed oh the preview is ajax, so use browser dev tools, not view source
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tantek Twitter -> FB preserves WS
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tantek ok let's find out
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tantek boom - that totally worked: https://www.facebook.com/tantek.celik/posts/10101200515439233
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snarfed yay! glad to hear it
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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tantek nice job snarfed!!!
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tantek snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 39 karma
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snarfed thanks!
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tantek that is really slick - so I can do that manually
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tantek now to figure out if I can code it into my publish/posse UI
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snarfed sure! all your code needs to do is send a wm. https://www.brid.gy/about#webmentions
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tantek thinking of only POSSEing notes and articles, not replies, unless the reply is to a FB post which then from my understanding Brid.gy will actually POSSE as a *comment* on that FB post rather than a post on my "wall"?
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snarfed tantek: yes. it understands u-in-reply-tos that link either directly to fb posts, or to indie posts with u-syndication links to fb posts
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snarfed (that last part is kylewm
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snarfed i love it)
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snarfed details on that about page
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tantek that's… amazing
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tantek if there is no u-in-reply-to to a FB post, then what happens?
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snarfed thanks!
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tantek does it post it as a note on your wall?
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tantek or does it drop it?
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snarfed yes, that's the default, but we're about to change that. if it has a u-in-reply-to, u-like-of, u-repost-of, or p-rsvp that *doesn't* point to a silo post, we'll soon drop it and return an error
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tantek yes that would be preferable!
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snarfed details in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/223
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snarfed agreed
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tantek right so if it's a "response" post ;) then it must either be in-reply-to a FB post, or it won't get posted there.
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snarfed heh, an "XXX" post. :P right. either in-reply-to fb or to an indie post with u-syndication pointing to fb
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snarfed (likewise for twitter)
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tantek crazy, when viewing posts in your "timeline", they have a "Change Date…" option in the little "v" drop down menu in the top right corner of the post!
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tantek so I was able to change that Brid.gy syndication post to be on the actual posting date
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snarfed oh wow. nice!
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tantek I wonder … can Bridgy post to my timeline in the past?
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snarfed maybe!
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snarfed haven't looked for that in the api, but maybe
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tantek so then you could post as of the dt-published or dt-updated date of the original!
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snarfed i don't see a date field here: https://developers.facebook.com/docs/graph-api/reference/v2.0/user/feed#publish
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tantek nor does that "edge" allow update
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snarfed hell, forget writing, i'd be happy if i could just *read* the timestamps for some things, e.g. fb likes and twitter favorites
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snarfed actually, forget timestamps, i'd be happy if the twitter api gave me favorites AT ALL
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tantek right - I think the only way you can get those timestamps is to subscribe to their email exhaust
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snarfed [grumble grumble off my lawn grumble]
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tantek.com edited /note (+207) "/* IndieWeb Whitespace Examples */ add example of whitespace preservation when using Bridgy to POSSE to FB" (view diff)
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tantek see, who cares about a minor outage, perfect time to test things out ;)
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tantek and now we've confirmed whitespace fidelity too
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tantek snarfed, is there some way to get the URL of the FB POSSE copy *back* from Bridgy? i.e. so I can then put a rel=syndication link on my original to the FB POSSE copy
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snarfed tantek: yup! it includes the silo post url in the webmention response
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tantek so the webmention is synchronous with the publish to FB API call? wow.
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snarfed yup
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snarfed intentional, so that it can return the url, etc
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snarfed https://www.brid.gy/about#response
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tantek makes complete sense
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tantek darn, one more thing to add to my "Working On" list!
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tantek ;)
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snarfed :P good problem to have
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snarfed fwiw, a few bridgy publish clients already use that response url
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tantek (automatic FB POSSE via Bridgy including saving the rel-syndication link)
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snarfed totally! i actually added that exact feature to the wordpress rel-syndication plugin recently
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snarfed here's an example: https://snarfed.org/2014-08-01_tantek-celik-trackattack-this-morning-4-warmup-laps-then-5-4
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tantek wow your like was posted on your own site and then POSSEd to the FB copy of my post?
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snarfed yup, that's how i've been doing (most) likes, favorites, RTs, rsvps for a while now
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tantek here let me try something manually
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tantek updated my site storage to add that rel-syndication link manually
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tantek now let's see about displaying it
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bret !tell aaronpk sorry, didnt manage to make it to esri againt pick up the power adapter yesterday, are you or anyone else there who could let me come grab it?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek snarfed, ok now http://tantek.com/2014/210/t1/trackattack-warmup-laps-first-time-did-all displays the rel-syndication link to FB
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snarfed tantek: nice!
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snarfed now you just need a matching black fb icon
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tantek so does that mean you could *like* that original post from your site, and then Bridgy would POSSE your like automatically to the POSSE copy on FB?
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snarfed tantek: yup! thank kylewm for that
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tantek snarfed, the embedding of the referenced post on your like permalinks is nice.
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tantek does that only work for likes of silo posts? what happens when you post a like of an indieweb post?
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snarfed tantek: thanks! my reply/like/rsvp posts are mostly bad, e.g. limited reply context, but that part is nice
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snarfed for indie posts, it just uses the title
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tantek and if there's no title or if the title is the whole post?
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snarfed it uses that, and ellipsizes
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snarfed more examples linked from https://snarfed.org/responses
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snarfed (apologies for the term)
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tantek e.g. was hoping you would try unliking my post on FB, and then see if liking my original post now auto-discovered the rel-syndication POSSE copy and all worked like it should
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tantek http://tantek.com/2014/210/t1/trackattack-warmup-laps-first-time-did-all
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snarfed ah. we've already tested that with a few other posts, so we know it does work
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snarfed were you interested in it for testing your own u-syndication markup?
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tantek yes!
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tantek ok cool. and does bridgy support POSSEing unlikes?
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snarfed tantek: hah no. interesting feature request though
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tantek i.e. can you simply delete your like post (presumably return a 410 for it), and the send another webmention to bridgy of that permalink?
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tantek that might be too much to ask though - as it would have to keep quite a history
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snarfed nah, totally doable. it already stores details of everything it publishes
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tantek wow
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snarfed you can see them on your user page, e.g. https://www.brid.gy/facebook/214611#publishes
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snarfed btw the delete feature request is https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/84
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snarfed disk space is cheap :P
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bear store all teh data!
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snarfed bear++ (plus encrypt pls! kthxbye)
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Loqi bear has 15 karma
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bear yea, that is slowing my file based data store system down
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bear the encrypt/decrypt step makes things interesting - especially since I'm trying to not store the password
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tantek snarfed, does Bridgy POSSE reposts as well?
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snarfed tantek: sure!
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snarfed at least for twitter. fb doesn't expose it in their api
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snarfed details in https://www.brid.gy/about#publishing
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snarfed bear: an intermediate step could be to just use full disk encryption, right? pretty low overhead these days. doesn't protect against all threats, but it's still nice
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tantek ah so it could delete those as well
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bear yep - if your server is virtual you can use an encrypted volume
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bear and then you only have to auth once when it starts
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tantek snarfed, you can't do a "share" of someone else's post on FB via the API?
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snarfed tantek: not last time i checked :/
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tantek but retweets then
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snarfed yes
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snarfed https://snarfed.org/responses#retweets
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tantek cool. added notes about unliking and unretweeting (sorry about all the edits) to https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/84
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snarfed tantek: btw here's an example of an indie rsvp of mine that bridgy possed to fb by using u-syndication. https://snarfed.org/2014-07-22_homebrew-website-club-july-30-2014
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snarfed tantek: thanks! no need to apologize, details are good
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gRegor` Surprised twitter returns https profile URLs, but http u-photo. https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/gRegorLove/494858877419020289/494859697581600768
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gRegor` Thankfully the photo url does work if you change it to https though
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snarfed gRegor`: ugh. looking to see if it's my fault
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gRegor` No rush. I'm not even displaying these yet. :)
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tantek snarfed, neat! but I didn't see your comment "damn, can’t make it this time. hope it’s a good one!" POSSEd to the "Declines" of the event
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snarfed tantek: true! when an rsvp has text, it doesn't posse that as a separate comment
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snarfed i'm not sure we fully understand the UX details and user intent for that yet
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tantek oh! I would expect it would! Since FB events often have comments associated with RSVP yes posts, and "Declines" for RSVP No posts
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snarfed tantek: sure, understood! other people might not though. i just haven't thought about this much
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tantek tries to look for examples of declines
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tantek !tell aaronpk I don't see August in the logs yet http://indiewebcamp.com/irc#Logs how long does it take for a new month to show up in that widget
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegor` It shows up on http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC/logs, interestingly
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bret !tell aaronpk also, webmention.io is 404ing all my webmention data :O
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bret not owning my data...
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tantek not owning your webmentions?
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tantek hmm haven't checked my webmention.io queue lately either
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bret lol. no webmentio.io was housing them
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bret im frustratingly close to getting webmention data into my source files
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bret I want a twitter micropub client so I can rake in retweets/faves
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bret retweets mostly
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Loqi gives bret a twitter micropub client so I can rake in retweets
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snarfed whoa really? is that all it takes to implement new stuff?
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snarfed i want an FB engineer who will implement mf2 and webmentions
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Loqi gives snarfed an FB engineer who will implement mf
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bret snarfed some display/classification work, but other than that
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snarfed holy crap
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tantek aw, so close ;)
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snarfed i know. still. this changes everything!!!
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Loqi hehe
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tantek oh man, snarfed, he's taunting you!
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snarfed :P
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bret creating new posts on my site is pretty easy... I need an edit/update mechanism. micropub does not even cover that yet I dont think
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bret my guess it will just take a url parameter and the endpoint has to fetch the souce content and return it to the client
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tantek micropub doesn't do CRUD? I thought it did
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bret tantek nobody has done it yet
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bret I dont think
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bret still trying to nail down some vocab stuff that MF does not cover
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bret there is some inconsistency between '-' and '_' in the existing clients
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bret names with - or _ *
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tantek really?
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tantek what are the use cases that seem to need stuff that current microformats don't cover?
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bret ermmm let me check... pretty minor request details
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bret tantek: client_id
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+1673) "/* Working On */ auto Bridgy POSSE to FB, and task list for" (view diff)
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bret noticed it was inconsistent with the dashes in the mf names (in-reply-to, syndicate-to)
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bret i guess thats the only one
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tantek bret I don't see client_id in any of the microformats used for micropub
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tantek seems like something out of band
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bret it comes out of the token verification process
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snarfed.org edited /Falcon (+101) "/* auto Bridgy POSSE to FB */ curl tweak" (view diff)
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tantek so that's http only AFAIK, not in a microformat
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bret but it ends up in posts (client attribution) so it comes to mind when processing the request
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tantek it does?!?
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bret Posted by ownyourgram
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bret yeah
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bret i mean if you want
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tantek snarfed, https://www.brid.gy/about says "Bridgy's webmention endpoint is brid.gy/publish/webmention"
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bret i would presume you would replace 'bbedit' with the client_id if you implemented micropub
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tantek but I use BBEdit as a human readable string
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tantek "client_id" does not sounds like a human readable string
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KartikPrabhu tantek: client_id is usually returned as the URL eg. quill.p3k.io
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bret would calling it client-id make it sound more human readable?
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+18) "/* auto Bridgy POSSE to FB */ section to edit" (view diff)
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bret 'client-name'
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tantek well we say "author" not "author-name"
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bret just `client` then?
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tantek and then if we want to provide more details than a string, we provide an object like h-card
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tantek has a feeling this was discussed already
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bret missed that then
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tantek likely missed it too
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tantek just has a feeling it has been discussed, since it involves naming ;)
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bret or forgot o.0
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bret im gonna go get all these moving parts working together on gitpub then ill have my head around the parameter names in their current state
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tantek makes sense
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tantek does sound a bit like the old rel=editor
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tantek IIRC
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bret the client_id actually comes back from the token service
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bret does not arrive in the micropub form
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tantek so that's where I don't understand how it makes its way to a microformat
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tantek or do we have enough examples in the wild of people publishing what tool/clientapp they used to publish a post that it's worth figuring out a property to add to h-entry?
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bret you, aaronpk, and... maybe waterpigs?
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bret there are a bunch of examples in replies like "via facebook"
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bret due to bridgy
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bret not sure if thats the same thing
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tantek it's not because those are links back to the original
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tantek not to "facebook" as a tool
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bret http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/07/22/1/ has a link "posted using ownyourgram"
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tantek sure that makes sense
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KartikPrabhu more outrage: http://kottke.org/14/08/the-problem-with-okcupid-is-the-problem-with-the-social-web
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bret "u-client-id"
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KartikPrabhu this was discussed once and the ideas thrown around were "posted-via" "posted-using" etc...
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tantek KartikPrabhu: can you find URL to discussion?
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KartikPrabhu yeah looking in logs
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KartikPrabhu tantek: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-07-08
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KartikPrabhu right from the start
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tantek KartikPrabhu: could you add that OKCupid article to /OKCupid#Criticism ?
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KartikPrabhu on it
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tantek.com edited /Events (+1969) "move July events to past, add August events" (view diff)
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bret bbiab
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kartikprabhu.com edited /OkCupid (+118) "/* "We Experiment on Human Beings!" */ added kottke.org article" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+0) "move TOC" (view diff)
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tantek !tell bret could you start http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry-brainstorming with subsection for "client" (as a working name) and then document existing examples in the wild of h-entry posts which explicitly display (in human readable text) the client/tool/editor/app used to write/edit/update the post?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegor` Related to the OKcupid stuff (humor): https://twitter.com/JustinBrookman/status/494177231485534209
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@JustinBrookman New @OKCupid homepage https://twitter.com/JustinBrookman/status/494177231485534209/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/494177231485534209)
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tantek !tell bret FWIW I decided to use « using <span class="using">BBEdit</span> » because it captured the semantic of what *user* authoring tool was I using rather than a cross-posting service etc.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gregorlove.com edited /OkCupid (+210) "/* "We Experiment on Human Beings!" */ NPR interview, "charade of consent"" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /OkCupid (+0) "/* "We Experiment on Human Beings!" */" (view diff)
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gRegor` !tell tantek, aaronpk, KevinMarks Please have a look at /W3C and update with issues you've experienced with the login process / ToS that was discussed in chat the other day.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi caseorganic: tantek left you a message on 7/23 at 3:36pm: I see markup in cleartext: [indiewebcamp.com indiewebcamp.com]! in http://caseorganic.com/articles/2014/07/19/2/indiewebcamp-2014-a-success
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Loqi caseorganic: tantek left you a message on 7/23 at 3:37pm: nice summary post about IndieWebCamp 2014!
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Loqi caseorganic: tantek left you a message on 7/25 at 2:32pm: if you're interested in giving a talk about IndieWeb sometime 2014-10-20..24, in particular how you've built or setup your own indieweb site, check this out and make a proposal! http://html5devconf.com/cfs-oct2014.html - feel free to mention that Tantek recommended you make a proposal (I was on their speaker board for a while) - and that offer is open to
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Loqi caseorganic: tantek left you a message 2 days, 3 hours ago: were you able to recruit Sandro to help co-organize IndieWebCamp Cambridge at MIT?
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tantek !tell aaronpk perhaps Loqi should wait til someone says something in the channel before giving them messages? seems too easy for an IRC client to transiently connect and someone gets messages then doesn't notice because they never went to their client.
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Loqi tantek: gRegor` left you a message 27 minutes ago: Please have a look at /W3C and update with issues you've experienced with the login process / ToS that was discussed in chat the other day.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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rascul tantek you are correct about that
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Loqi [@tacticalhummus] That's fine. Punish users for using the platform however they choose, playing by the rules
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Loqi more support and motivation for #indieweb (http://twtr.io/p8udbB7iRs)
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rascul who is punishing users?
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tantek sounds like a subtweet
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sparverius rascul: linkedin
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rascul ahh
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gRegor` I thought they were talking about Twitter, changing to a new account or something: https://twitter.com/tacticalhummus/with_replies
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sparverius although at this point you can say "someone on the internet is doing something bad but not illegal" and someone at linkedin is slowly edging towards the exit
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sparverius rascul: i should mention i dont know who the tweet was referring to, im just dealing with linkedin right now :V
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rascul it looks kinda like the tweet is in reference to twitter
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rascul after looking through some more of his tweets
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gRegor` Odd that anyone would have difficult following the new account, @temporaryhuman
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tantek https://twitter.com/tacticalhummus/status/494931765212241921
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@tacticalhummus Behold: the sketchy RT's that got @temporaryhuman suspended for "looking like spam" https://twitter.com/tacticalhummus/status/494931765212241921 (twitter.com/_/status/494931765212241921)
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tantek first reply is hilarious (and applicable) https://twitter.com/Jon__Stone/status/494936156296192000
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@Jon__Stone @temporaryhummus @temporaryhuman probably more because you advocated #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/494936156296192000)
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gRegor` Haha
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tantek hmm - why didn't Loqi see that tweet?
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Loqi is done
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rascul wasn't at the beginning?
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rascul or maybe he just gave up
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rascul oh i misunderstood what you said
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tantek yes, that's fascinating, Loqi didn't see the @Jon__Stone tweet above - at least when it happened at 13:02
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gRegor` prods Loqi
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tantek gives Loqi an espresso.
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Loqi grabs the espresso.
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@atmospunch If there were two guys on the moon and one killed the other with a rock would that be fucked up or what #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/495306416844836864)
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tantek wat
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willnorris lol
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willnorris that’s the account’s first tweet
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tantek just noticed that too
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rascul it would be worse if the dead guy was the only one who knew how to fly the shuttle
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tantek rascul - the only reasonable explanation would be drastic perhaps panicked quarantine measures
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tantek but that's more material for #indiechat
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tantek.com created /w3c (+17) "r" (view diff)
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@4c4d going to spend a few hours this weekend bringing more of my web services from silos to #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/495308774454738947)
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sparverius that tweet is mine
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sparverius im bringing in some simple personal stuff and laying it on a box i built as a trial
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sparverius also my calendar and chat services
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sparverius i wish google talk was still federated (or is it still?)
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@gigaom Startup @SandstormIO wants to make decentralized hosting of indieweb apps viable, thanks to a personalized cloud. http://gigaom.com/2014/08/01/sandstorms-decentralized-hosting-platform-could-finally-make-indie-web-apps-viable/?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social (twitter.com/_/status/495316880413188096)
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@NodeSystems RT @gigaom: Startup @SandstormIO wants to make decentralized hosting of indieweb apps viable, thanks to a personalized cloud. http://t.co/c… (twitter.com/_/status/495317381573771264)
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@digiscopeonline RT @gigaom: Startup @SandstormIO wants to make decentralized hosting of indieweb apps viable, thanks to a personalized cloud. http://t.co/c… (twitter.com/_/status/495317595617509376)
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@Pritesh_Rk RT @gigaom: Startup @SandstormIO wants to make decentralized hosting of indieweb apps viable, thanks to a personalized cloud. http://t.co/c… (twitter.com/_/status/495318812405669888)
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@Codative RT @gigaom: Startup @SandstormIO wants to make decentralized hosting of indieweb apps viable, thanks to a personalized cloud. http://t.co/c… (twitter.com/_/status/495319278699433984)
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sparverius i wonder if i could run my static http hosting off of a router?
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sparverius http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/tp-link/tl-wdr3500 is <$40 on amazon and includes a 500+ mhz relatively high end (for the market) mips chip and 128MB RAM
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@sebprovencher RT @gigaom: Startup @SandstormIO wants to make decentralized hosting of indieweb apps viable, thanks to a personalized cloud. http://t.co/c… (twitter.com/_/status/495322383700738049)
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snarfed hey aaronpk, just fyi, looks like that mystery cron job stopped at around 3am pst this morning
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@KentonVarda RT @gigaom: Startup @SandstormIO wants to make decentralized hosting of indieweb apps viable, thanks to a personalized cloud. http://t.co/c… (twitter.com/_/status/495324715955662848)
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willnorris benwerd: just replied on g+. what’s the best email address to send Google Domains invite to?
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benwerd willnorris: awesome, thank you! Best is ben@withknown.com
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willnorris sent
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benwerd Wonderful. Thank you again :)
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willnorris I don’t know a lot about the partners their working with, or how to get on that list, but I’ll definitely try and find the bizdev person who manages that
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willnorris s/their/they’re/
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Loqi willnorris meant to say: I don’t know a lot about the partners they’re working with, or how to get on that list, but I’ll definitely try and find the bizdev person who manages that
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benwerd willnorris: I really appreciate that. Just bought a name - really easy process. I love that Google is doing this.
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willnorris yeah, me too. :) this should be great for indieweb newcomers… very simple onboarding process
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willnorris interestingly, I just saw that amazon is offering domains as well (via Gandi), though that is if course developer focused
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@nchenga Recommended read https://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog http://chiperoni.ch/wordpress/2014/08/recommended-read-httpbit-ly1qwaqou/ (twitter.com/_/status/495327573979590656)
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jkphl.is edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+501) "/* Creators */" (view diff)
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@pierreozoux #IndieWeb Level1, first part: domain name http://www.pierre-o.fr/blog/2014/07/31/domain-name-and-github/ (twitter.com/_/status/495334267871068160)
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@pierreozoux #IndieWeb level 1, second part: Web Sign In http://www.pierre-o.fr/blog/2014/08/01/web-sign-in/ (twitter.com/_/status/495337065803169793)
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bret ahh i see: client_id is the actyal domain of the client
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Loqi bret: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 36 minutes ago: could you start http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry-brainstorming with subsection for "client" (as a working name) and then document existing examples in the wild of h-entry posts which explicitly display (in human readable text) the client/tool/editor/app used to write/edit/update the post?
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Loqi bret: tantek left you a message 3 hours, 21 minutes ago: FWIW I decided to use « using <span class="using">BBEdit</span> » because it captured the semantic of what *user* authoring tool was I using rather than a cross-posting service etc.
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bret !tell tantek sure as soon as I can edit that page :p
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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bret !tell tantek I am starting notes for the page locally :)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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bret !tell tantek, aaronpk: conceivably posting tools/clients may live at different domains but have a human readable name relating to the software powering it. If client_id is the url of the client making the post maybe we need a separate client name field
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu bret: client URL could have a h-card with other details on it, no need for a separate field that is not the URL
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bret KartikPrabhu good point. maybe client_id needs to disapear and become an h-card
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bret but i think its apart of oauth somehow
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bret KartikPrabhu did that make sense? Im taking into account if I run my own quill client on my domian, I still want it to be called quill, not like quill.bret.io or something
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KartikPrabhu bret: your quill.bret.io instance can have an h-card with p-name="Quill" or p-nam="Bret's Quill"
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@Late_Bloomers #POSSE: A clickable demo of my simple #indieweb blog http://chiperoni.ch/wordpress/2014/07/posse-a-clickable-demo-of-my-simple-indieweb-blog/ via @@nchenga (twitter.com/_/status/495346439891849217)
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bret personally, I would like to identify it as the software name rather than the domain its running on (but note that too)
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@Late_Bloomers #POSSE: A clickable demo of my simple #indieweb blog http://linkis.com/chiperoni.ch/wordpre/sXa80 via @@nchenga (twitter.com/_/status/495346500747411456)
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aaronpk ohai
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Loqi aaronpk: bret left you a message 5 hours, 20 minutes ago: sorry, didnt manage to make it to esri againt pick up the power adapter yesterday, are you or anyone else there who could let me come grab it?
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 4 hours, 42 minutes ago: I don't see August in the logs yet http://indiewebcamp.com/irc#Logs how long does it take for a new month to show up in that widget
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Loqi aaronpk: bret left you a message 4 hours, 31 minutes ago: also, webmention.io is 404ing all my webmention data :O
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bret disregard that first message
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Loqi aaronpk: gRegor` left you a message 3 hours, 21 minutes ago: Please have a look at /W3C and update with issues you've experienced with the login process / ToS that was discussed in chat the other day.
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 53 minutes ago: perhaps Loqi should wait til someone says something in the channel before giving them messages? seems too easy for an IRC client to transiently connect and someone gets messages then doesn't notice because they never went to their client.
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bret lol sorry
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Loqi aaronpk: bret left you a message 8 minutes ago: conceivably posting tools/clients may live at different domains but have a human readable name relating to the software powering it. If client_id is the url of the client making the post maybe we need a separate client name field
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aaronpk good lord
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bret \o/
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aaronpk bret: the intention is that client_id is always a resolvable domain, and sites can look at that page for an h-card for info about the app
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aaronpk or maybe x-h-app
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bret ohhh
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aaronpk try signing in to the wiki ;)
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bret me?
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aaronpk yep
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bret "If you are a new user and cannot edit this page, please notify an administrator or ask on irc: an administrator or autoconfirmed user can create the page for you. New users cannot create new pages as an anti-spam measure. Sorry for the inconvenience. "
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bret :(
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bret (i am logged in)
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aaronpk log in again
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bret oh gotcha
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aaronpk and pay attention to the indieauth prompt
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bret ohhhhh nm i though you were talking about the microformat wiki
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bret prddy logo
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aaronpk it's parsing it from the x-h-app on the wiki!
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bret thats cool
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bret i like that idea, but what if my posting client does not have a url?
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bret like, an offline note posting client or something
chrissaad joined the channel
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bret it seems useful to allow the client to provide that data in the initial post request
paulcp and KartikPrabhu joined the channel