#indiewebcamp 2014-07-06

2014-07-06 UTC
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lazlazlaz1
yeah
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lazlazlaz1
really clever
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tantek
thanks! it came out of a sense of frustration with the hassle(s) with OpenID.
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lazlazlaz1
Oh man, yeah, OpenID did end up being a touch confusing
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tantek
in so many ways. for users, publishers, consumers, app developers. everybody. :/
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tantek
!tell aaronpk re: reader use case of temporary following of a hashtag, could prototype with Loqi here especially when on topic
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
Loqi, track #indie2014 for 7 days.
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@InternetSabrina
Go @T, go! RT @kevinmarks: "You're not going to email yourself into building a website." -- @t http://t.co/9w9U50Qx43 … #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/485575168316964864)
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Loqi
aaronpk: tantek left you a message 1 minute ago: re: reader use case of temporary following of a hashtag, could prototype with Loqi here especially when on topic
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aaronpk
that would be really interesting!
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lazlazlaz1
just noticed that "domain.com" != "www.domain.com" for indieauth, is that intentional?
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tantek
yes. because they are not the same.
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tantek
just as tantek.tumblr.com is not the same as tumblr.com
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lazlazlaz1
ah yeh, good point
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tantek
"www." is not special. mostly, it's superfluous, per no-www.org
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bret
lazlazlaz1: static sites have some nice qualities, but they also offer a set of challenges that make them harder to do dynamic things that php or other web frameworks make easyish
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bret
lazlazlaz1: currenly working on https://github.com/bcomnes/gitpub to automate a git workflow that people typically use to post to their static sites
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lazlazlaz1
Yeah I switched to static since I wasn't doing anything dynamic and it seemed a bit pointless running all this php code behind it
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lazlazlaz1
But now I want to!
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lazlazlaz1
dammit
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aaronpk
at that level php is more of a templating language than a full server-side stack like node or ruby
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aaronpk
luckily the php tools around microformats and indieweb are pretty extensive!
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tantek.com
edited /subdomains (+232) "avoid www, see also"
(view diff)
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bret
tantek: i wonder if gitpub would be a good approach for your site to add webmention/micropub support, as your posting interface consists of editing a text file at this point
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aaronpk
bret: you'd have to convince tantek to use git first ;)
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tantek
haha yeah that.
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bret
he wont have to use git, it does the git for you!
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tantek
more like I want to force myself to code the minimal php (rather, CASSIS) support necessary in order to share those libraries (or reuse others')
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: you can't use my arguments! :|
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bret
I want to teach git to tantek next time we are in the same place
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aaronpk
i'm not sure how well that would go over :)
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KartikPrabhu
wait tantek doesn't do git!
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KartikPrabhu
as a new learner of git myself.. it is quite complicated
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bret
git add -A
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bret
git commit -m 'message'
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bret
git push
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bret
thats it
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GWG
I just bookmarked a how to
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KartikPrabhu
well that's it if you have other stuff done
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aaronpk
but then you have to be able to pull it from the server
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bret
git pull
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aaronpk
and if you don't have shell access you can't
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KartikPrabhu
gti clone, git pull blah blah git somethign or other to set remote
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aaronpk
like a lot of web hosts
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KartikPrabhu
git branch something something
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bret
git tickle index
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KartikPrabhu
you can get by with 3 commands if everything is already done for you
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bret
aaronpk: thats wack... do you know host that provide git shell access?
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lazlazlaz1
There's plenty of graphical tools that help if you don't want to learn the commands
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lazlazlaz1
But there is always more flexibility in learning it
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bret
gitx dev is a good way to teach ime
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bret
the git graphs are critical
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bret
it does not emphasize the index, which is a point of confusion at first
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lazlazlaz1
My favourite git tool is tig, it's a terminal "graphical" representation of the branches/merges etc
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lazlazlaz1
So with IndieAuth you have to use an external service to authenticate, has there been any discussion around that to move away from "walled garden" external services? It came up today at the Indie Tech Summit as part of the idea of the user having the control over their authentication and identity. I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had thoughts regarding this.
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aaronpk
lazlazlaz1: there are several options for that
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aaronpk
you can use SMS, which while doesn't rely on a web silo still relies on a phone company
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aaronpk
there's email which uses persona or your email provider's persona implementation (which can be your own, but nobody has done that)
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GWG
aaronpk: Don't forget authentication using your watch
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aaronpk
you can (soon) become your own OAuth provider, which takes more work on the server side but then doesn't require any other services to be involved
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aaronpk
the simplest one is a GPG key where you link to a public key on your website, then you sign a challenge to sign in
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: what is this own OAuth provider thing?
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aaronpk
it's not yet implemented on indieauth.com but it's close
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aaronpk
but ownyourgram.com and quill.p3k.io use it
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lazlazlaz1
cool
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KartikPrabhu
so to do this my server would have to implement code to act as a authorization_endpoint
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aaronpk
KartikPrabhu: yep exactly
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aaronpk
i already implemented it on aaronparecki.com actually
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KartikPrabhu
JonathanNeal: you should look at this ^
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KartikPrabhu
!tell snarfed: the twitter.py thing seems to need app-engine for some HTTP_TIMEOUT is that necessary?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: for the hand-written URL use case wouldn't a slug URL be better than an algorithmic short URL?
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bret
aaronpk: have you documented the gpg signin option somewhere?
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KartikPrabhu
!tell snarfed: that last msg was regarding activitystreams_unofficial
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk
i still owe a blog post about that
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aaronpk
i should probably just copy that into a blog post on my site
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Loqi
it is probable
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Loqi
snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 4 hours, 54 minutes ago: kylewm: with posse-post discovery what stops me from getting responses to someone else's tweets? For instance I can put kyle's tweet url as a "u-syndication" on my
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Loqi
snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 11 minutes ago: the twitter.py thing seems to need app-engine for some HTTP_TIMEOUT is that necessary?
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Loqi
snarfed: KartikPrabhu left you a message 9 minutes ago: that last msg was regarding activitystreams_unofficial
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KartikPrabhu
so many messages!
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aaronpk
today is flying by!
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: HTTP_TIMEOUT comes from an appengine_config.py file, but that shouldn't need app engine itself
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: when you cloned the repo, did you run git submodule update --init --recursive ? details in the README
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KartikPrabhu
oh sorry on further inspection... oauth_dropins seems to need google.appengine.api
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snarfed
ah, bleh. ok. looking
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snarfed
well, some files in both repos will import from that package, but you shouldn't need those files
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snarfed
(i think)
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snarfed
looking now
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snarfed
btw, as for hijacking rel-syndication links, yes, true. that's not bridgy specific though. you can claim syndication to a post that isn't actually yours, true…but you can fabricate arbitrary html on your own site
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snarfed
so, i'm not sure of a clear attack vector with that
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KartikPrabhu
yes... but bridgy should not be trusting me so blindly then
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snarfed
i guess i'm still not sure what the actual attack is
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KartikPrabhu
it is not an attack... but I could very well write some inappropriate post and have all of your friends agreeing with me or something...because it looks like they have commented on my site
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snarfed
right…but like i said, you don't need any of this to do that, you can just author the html for that by hand :P
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KartikPrabhu
but maybe that can be done just by scraping HTML for mf2
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KartikPrabhu
yeah maybe
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KartikPrabhu
"oauth_dropins/webutil/appengine_config.py" seems to have "from google.appengine.api import app_identity"
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snarfed
yes, but it's in a try except, so it should be ok without it
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snarfed
are you seeing an exception at module import time?
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KartikPrabhu
hmm oh this was on File "twitter.py", line 25, in <module> from appengine_config import HTTP_TIMEOUT
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KartikPrabhu
hmm and that one is not in a try except for me!
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KartikPrabhu
it seems the sub modules didn't update
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snarfed
right, that file is part of the project
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snarfed
aha ok
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snarfed
git's recursive operations are sometimes flaky for me. try that submodule command inside oauth_dropins
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snarfed
…but you will run into one app engine dependency eventually. thinking about that now
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KartikPrabhu
ok looking
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KartikPrabhu
ok successfulyl update submodules now
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KartikPrabhu
seems like I need webob
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: it tells me to install webapp2 isn't that an appengine thing too ?
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snarfed
yeah. there are a couple remaining dependencies. that's the easy one, the other is the hard one
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snarfed
i'm working on them, but it'll take a while
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snarfed
as a temporary workaround, if you download the app engine sdk, you'll be able to use this now, and you can remove it as soon as i push the fixes
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KartikPrabhu
aah ok good. I cna wait :) might be more confusing if I attempt installing the app engine sdk :P
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snarfed
sorry :/
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KartikPrabhu
np! this thing is a huge amount of code, so such things happen
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: is there a reason for converting everything into an activity stream first and then to mf2?
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KartikPrabhu
or is that just because it is an AS library?
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snarfed
short answer, i discovered AS years and years before i discovered mf2
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snarfed
AS is also a bit more expressive when it comes to social specific stuff
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snarfed
but meh
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KartikPrabhu
sure... just curious :)
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KartikPrabhu
in fact might be advatageous as mf2 grows and adds more things to be expressive
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snarfed
maybe! migrating would be a big task, and it can already input mf2 and output both AS and mf2, so the common format underneath doesn't really matter too much
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KartikPrabhu
i suppose it is fast enought that FAPP it doesn't matter
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snarfed
yup. pretty much none of our applications are cpu bound
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bret
lkklk;
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bret
oops
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emmak
snarfed: how does bridgy elide POSSE'd tweets?
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snarfed
emmak: hmm. do you mean, how does it count characters?
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emmak
i am looking for the code in your github, but not finding it
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emmak
thanks!
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KartikPrabhu
ooo if I get activity streams working I could POSSE my own things :P
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KartikPrabhu
is so confused about doing combined streams of post
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KartikPrabhu
I want to make a drop down list of links, is it possible to do it without have some onClick JS on the <option> elements?
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: that sounds very 90s :)
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KartikPrabhu
I am a 90s kid! ;)
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kylewm
i'm pretty sure it has to be JS
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emmak
KartikPrabhu: what do you mean by drop down list of links?
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KartikPrabhu
the use-case is https://kartikprabhu.com/archive here I want to put all the "years" navigation at the bottom into a menu so it doesn't end up being a long-ass list of years
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KartikPrabhu
but then maybe I'll have a long menu list :P
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emmak
oh i see, and then when you select a year, it jumps to the url for that?
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KartikPrabhu
there has to be a good way to doing this
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KartikPrabhu
emmak: yes
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KartikPrabhu
that way on touch devices it can also pull up a nice menu like on Android or iOS
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KartikPrabhu
with all the native touchy interactions
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emmak
yeah, not sure if that's possible without js
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KartikPrabhu
hmmm a way out is to do some form+server-side-sccript
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KartikPrabhu
those are the options on the internetz searching too
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kylewm
can you make a form auto-submit on change, without javascript?
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emmak
what is the reason you want to avoid javascript?
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KartikPrabhu
I don't think so
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KartikPrabhu
emmak: I mostly try to do things without JS if it can be avoided
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KartikPrabhu
specially basic intereactions like links
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kylewm
so one argument, would be to use JS/CSS to show hide a list of links instead
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: ok, i think activitystreams-unoffiical's app engine deps are gone
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kylewm
then if JS is disabled, the links are still intact
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snarfed
KartikPrabhu: you'll want to git submodule update —recursive after you pull
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KartikPrabhu
snarfed: cool... i'll try it tonight! thanks for doing this :)
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snarfed
np, thanks for using it!
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KartikPrabhu
ofcourse! python FTW! :)
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KartikPrabhu
emmak kylewm: thanks for the help... will have to think of some other interaction way
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aaronpk
i just realized that quill is sending in_reply_to instead of in-reply-to
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aaronpk
KartikPrabhu: will I break everything for you if I change it to in-reply-to?
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KartikPrabhu
Let me know and I can update that one line too :)
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KartikPrabhu
I noticed it and thought it was some form-encoding thing I didn't realise
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aaronpk
nope, just an accident
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KartikPrabhu
yeah just ping me here and all shall be well :)
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aaronpk
cool. probably won't push it out for a while, i'm working on adding syndication buttons to it.
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aaronpk
oh dang, and ownyourgram is sending place_name instead of place-name
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KartikPrabhu
that might cause more trouble as more people are using it I suppose
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KartikPrabhu
also you might want to check if others are using quill
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aaronpk
you're the only one who has used it in the past week besides me
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: I want to show a "via quill" on my notes. Is there a sane "field name" such things?
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KartikPrabhu
"client" ?
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aaronpk
i've been using the value of the client_id field
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aaronpk
cause it's a URL
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KartikPrabhu
also should that be a "client-id" ? :P
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aaronpk
if you don't want to just show "via quill.p3k.io" then I should add an h-card to the site so you can get the name from there
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aaronpk
the client_id comes from the token info, not from the micropub post request
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KartikPrabhu
I am good with just URL name
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KartikPrabhu
aah i see
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aaronpk
of course the other option here is since everyone's clients are already using the underscore version, just stick with that an update the /micropub page
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KartikPrabhu
yeah. depends on conformance with mf2 or having uniform naming conventions for all fields in micropub request
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aaronpk
yeah the hyphen is probably better cause there's no transformation needed from the microformats field to the micropub field
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KartikPrabhu
is frustrated with no good way to count posts by year in Django
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KartikPrabhu
moves to working on reposts and likes
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KartikPrabhu
is it worth bothering with a single note being in-reply-to=URL1 *and* repost-of=URL2 ?
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aaronpk
if it's a repost, then it can't be anything except that I think
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aaronpk
otherwise it's not a repost
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KartikPrabhu
hmm true... will do the simplest thing to start off :)
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KartikPrabhu
#don'toverthinkit #DOTI
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KartikPrabhu
what is the wiki page with a list of note types i.e. reply, repost, like...
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KartikPrabhu
I'm trying to copy my old retweets from twitter to own site. anyone know how to get the time I retweeted something? the tweet-id is in data-my-retweet-id but no date/time
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KartikPrabhu
twitter-- also the "download you archive" link does nothing on FF !
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Loqi
twitter has -4 karma
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KartikPrabhu
ok swtiched to G+ and now first repost imported: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/brianwebb-window-look violating some indieweb consensus by adding own commentary to a "repost" but that's how G+ does it
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JonathanNeal
Hey KartikPrabhu, how goes it?
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KartikPrabhu
it goes sort of well sort of not... Django is being stubborn :P
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KartikPrabhu
JonathanNeal: did you see aaronpk's attempt to have own site authorization/login?
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KartikPrabhu
wait looking
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JonathanNeal
I like it.
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aaronpk
JonathanNeal: it's implemented at ownyourgram.com and quill.p3k.io right now, in the process of adding it to indieauth.com
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KartikPrabhu
JonathanNeal: yes. sounds very similar to your attempts
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: wait so if i have my own auth stuff setup I can use it on quill?
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aaronpk
quill requires you to set an authorization_endpoint
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KartikPrabhu
damn it my itch list is getting longer :P
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aaronpk
quill doesn't implement relmeauth at all
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KartikPrabhu
so instead of pointing to IndieAuth I just point to my own thing
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JonathanNeal
One big difference I had was that I wanted each domain to host what-you-are-calling an authorization endpoint.
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aaronpk
JonathanNeal: why require that?
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JonathanNeal
Then, entering the domain dictates where the request is sent.
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aaronpk
in this model it's definitely supported
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KartikPrabhu
yeah now that is optional. you could use Twitter or your own site
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aaronpk
it's just not required, so that it's easier to bootstrap
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tommorris
just signed into indieauth with GPG
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aaronpk
tommorris++
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Loqi
tommorris has 27 karma
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JonathanNeal
yea, I think it is, you could not include the rel and let the form or site respond directly to the domain.
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JonathanNeal
aaronpk: agreed it’s much easier to bootstrap.
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KartikPrabhu
woohoo convergence :P
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tommorris
aaronpk: I was discussing making an IndieAuth browser plugin for Firefox to make the UX of using IndieAuth simpler. Was wondering if you’d be willing to drop a classname on the indieauth forms so that the form could be replaced with a button that just says “sign in with [your domain]”
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tommorris
all the plugin would do is look for that classname and replace the whole form with a simple one-click sign in. It’d just pre-fill the domain with your domain
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aaronpk
tommorris: ooh like pre-filling (and auto-submitting?) the web sign-in form?
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tommorris
yeah, not so much auto-submitting
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aaronpk
that's a cool idea
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tommorris
but just if you have the plugin installed, it’d auto-replace the login form with a button
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aaronpk
yeah i'd be happy to do that! that's awesome.
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tommorris
the button would just be “Sign in with aaronpk.com” or “Sign in with tommorris.org” - and underneath a little link that said “Sign in with another domain” that would un-hide the original form
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tommorris
I don’t know of a good class name. Something like “indieauth-form”. ;-)
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tommorris
(Strangely, ARIA doesn’t have a login or signin role.)
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JonathanNeal
KartikPrabhu: this is sounding a lot more like what we were doodling with now, cool.
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KartikPrabhu
JonathanNeal: yeah pretty much. i knew aaronpk was cooking something like this
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JonathanNeal
tommorris, KartikPrabhu: In that case, I suggest data-[PROTOCOL]="[FEATURE]:[OPTIONS]"
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JonathanNeal
So, in your case, that might be data-indieauth="login"
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KartikPrabhu
more data-s
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JonathanNeal
Yes, it’s more extendable. Any supportive JS could start like this https://gist.github.com/jonathantneal/a82600f12804589c0f0b
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KartikPrabhu
is pretty ignorant about how to best defin protocols, so leaves it to you folk to figure this cool stuff out
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aaronpk
I'm still somewhat ignorant about the data-* attributes.
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aaronpk
I heard something about how they are only supposed to be used for in-page consumption, and should not be used by external parsers. that's why microformats2 doesn't use them.
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aaronpk
so i'm not sure where browser extensions fall within that spectrum
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KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: I have used them to store data that some JS can use
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KartikPrabhu
but nothign beyond that
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aaronpk
yeah that is the intent of it I thought
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JonathanNeal
data- was made for frameworks
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JonathanNeal
> Custom data attributes are intended to store custom data private to the page or application, for which there are no more appropriate attributes or elements.
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aaronpk
JonathanNeal: sweet. citation?
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KartikPrabhu
should sleep.
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KartikPrabhu
alright... will add self-authorization to my itch-list tomorrow
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aaronpk
me too
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tommorris
aaronpk: data- attributes are awesome. use them a lot at work.
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bnvk
tommorris: where's the rel="pgpkey" on your site?
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tommorris
bnvk: in the head. now works
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tommorris
I put rel=“pubkey” yesterday rahter than rel=“pgpkey”. changed it to pgpkey. now works.
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bnvk
ok. I didn't know it worked as a <link> tag
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bnvk
was gonna suggest changing that
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tommorris
the documentation on indieauth suggests link
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tommorris
but it probably ought to be an <a> on the page somewhere because visible-metadata. ;)
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bnvk
tommorris: also, yah
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bnvk
oops, yah, it probably should be visible old schoolers who look for mentions of PGP keys
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tommorris
Am tempted to go through the indieauth docs and fix stuff like that
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bnvk
also, you might want to rename it to key.asc instead key.pgp as some clients (like my Mac GPG Tools) shit the bed and won't import the other extension
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bnvk
friggin PGP
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bnvk
files a bug on GPG tools site...
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tommorris
If there’s a GPG contingent in IWC, we ought to have key-signing at future IWC events btw
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tommorris
I did check to make sure it was being served as text/plain by Rails
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bnvk
oh, that's the other thing, my browser downloaded it by default
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tommorris
mine too.
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bnvk
usually keys don't do that
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tommorris
probably some download intent stuff. donpdonp’s one does the same in my FF
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tommorris
a nice little job for today: rewriting the JS on my site to drastically reduce the size
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bnvk
nice
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tommorris
308KB of JS is too much.
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tommorris
Lots of that is jQuery which can be stripped out and replaced with just using the DOM.
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tommorris
308KB of JS for 28KB of HTML. Insanity.
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bnvk
you could also use Zepto
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bnvk
and still have your codes look nicer than straight DOM JS
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tommorris
Will have a look.
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tommorris
9.2KB of minified JS. Nice.
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tommorris
I had a shock at work recently when I saw that one of our Facebook apps downloads 4Mb of data to run.
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bnvk
JS data?
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tommorris
Lots of imagery, lots of JS.
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tommorris
Sega Genesis game cartridges each had 256KB to 4MB of storage.
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tommorris
Complete video games from the 1990s were smaller in size than some of today’s web apps. (And more enjoyable to use.)
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bnvk
that's a fascinating comparison
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@brennannovak
@JanetGunter very nice post. Reminds me of a lot of the aspects I've seen / experienced from the @IndieWebCamp community!
(twitter.com/_/status/485734753933340673)
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tommorris
decides to give that comparison a permaurl
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bnvk
tommorris: do it!
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bnvk
nice
#
bnvk
tommorris: it interesting to consider the environmental impact of all that
#
tommorris
anyway, I need to disappear off into London and get things done.
#
bnvk
I've long thought "why the hell isn't jQuery and large common libs not bundled in browsers and accessed via <script local="jquery" version="2.1" src="http://domain…">
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tommorris
that’d be sensible
#
bnvk
some smarty pants "optimization" guru dude from Google once explained why it's not good
#
bnvk
his reasoning made sense, but was so technical and convoluted I forgot the reasoning
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bnvk
anyway, really cool hanging out man, have a good trip back to LDN
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tommorris
oh got to london last night
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tommorris
left at 11:37, got home at 3am.
#
tommorris
British trains suck
#
@JanetGunter
Learning more about #indieweb and trying to sort out how much time it will take me to go "indie"
(twitter.com/_/status/485738488504270848)
#
@paul_tibbetts
RT @kevinmarks: "you're not going to email yourself into building a website" - @t https://www.youtube.com/ #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/485740872190148608)
lukebrooker, cweiske, petermolnar and scor joined the channel
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@MGraybosch
I can't attend @indiewebcamp, but I love the idea. I think corps like Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc. make the Web suck for everyone else.
(twitter.com/_/status/485748186154160130)
crystal joined the channel
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@JanetGunter
@brian_condon Thank you. After hearing more about #indieweb though, I wonder if Storify is merely a silo of a silo…?
(twitter.com/_/status/485753492263682048)
#
@brian_condon
Yes - know what you mean @JanetGunter - just been following your conversation re #indieweb hmm and remembering Posterous :(
(twitter.com/_/status/485753947177897984)
jonnybarnes, pbeaulieu, pfefferle, crystal, glennjones, chloeweil, dysfun, chrissaad, cweiske and indie-visitor joined the channel
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
bnvk and chrissaad joined the channel
#
rascul
better to show post datetimes in timezone it was posted from or utc?
#
rascul
or use some javascript to adjust to timezone the person viewing the post is in?
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rascul
i'm happy with any of those but i don't know what would be better for others
crystal joined the channel
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rascul
hrm or maybe a floating datetime /datetime#no_timezone
lukebrooker joined the channel
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rascul
floating could get weird though i think
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pdurbin
utc is fine for me but I'm not picky
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pdurbin
rascul: is your thing open source?
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pdurbin
nice. python. and it supports various indieweb things?
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@jalbertbowdenii
posse Publish Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE my posse's on broadway https://www.youtube.com/ #indieweb #openweb
(twitter.com/_/status/485814150564937729)
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rascul
yes, more and more as i get farther and farther
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pdurbin
rascul: cool. maybe list them in your readme
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rascul
one day i'll make a readme worth reading :)
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rascul
for now though i have https://rascul.io/credits
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rascul
oh i should list microformats2 in there
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pdurbin
oh I see, they are listed here: https://rascul.io/indieweb
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rascul
oh i forgot about that page
bnvk joined the channel
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@jdp23
. @danhind have you been following the #indieweb movement? it's very much along the lines of what you're talking about
(twitter.com/_/status/485819371973914624)
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brennannovak.com
edited /store (+0) "/* Platforms */"
(view diff)
lukebrooker joined the channel
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@jdp23
@danhind yes, great insight on the natural alliance with the cooperative sector @coopnews @CooperativesUK #indieweb
(twitter.com/_/status/485823033433526273)
lukebrooker, wolftune and indie-visitor joined the channel
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indie-visitor
Hello to all.
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tommorris
hey indie-visitor
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indie-visitor
not much to say, new here
wolftune, indie-visitor and dariusdunlap joined the channel
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GWG
Anyone about?
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rascul
i am here
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GWG
I'm looking at finishing up my new design.
#
GWG
Do you have any sites you know of with interesting multi-column layouts?
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rascul
no, not off the top of my head
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dariusdunlap
It’s hard to do without things looking cluttered
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rascul
often what i'll do though is look through various sites such as http://oswd.org to get ideas
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GWG
rascul: That is what I'm looking for...sites to get ideas
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GWG
I had played with a design that had the first few things full width and then the older stuff half or quarter width
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dariusdunlap
I know it’s “the thing” these days, but I do like the resutls from Bootstrap. Using it right now in a couple projects.
#
GWG
dariusdunlap: I don't mind being part of a crowd.
#
dariusdunlap
Bootstrap makes it real easy to get that multi-column look, including some nice flourishes like circl-shaped images for topic headers in the narrow columns. Here’s something I’ve been fiddling with, just to see what’s possible: https://dunlaps.net
#
GWG
dariusdunlap: I'm actually using it. But I'm trying to get ideas beyond the traditional...full-length post model
#
dariusdunlap
What are you thinking about? Link-Lists? I’m curious, because I’ve been musing about the best way to present POSSE’d material… likes, comments, reshares, etc.
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GWG
Many sites have a combination of views.
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@benwerd
My #indieweb life: how my site gives me an awesome social media archive of everything I've ever written http://werd.io/2014/my-indieweb-life-how-my-site-gives-me-an-awesome
(twitter.com/_/status/485835240980496386)
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GWG
I want the detail on the front page to decrease proportional to the age and possibly the content type.
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Loqi
gives GWG the detail on the front page to decrease proportional to the age and possibly the content type
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GWG
Loqi, hush
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Loqi
dude
#
GWG
Don't Dude me, Loqi
#
@ananelson
RT @benwerd: My #indieweb life: how my site gives me an awesome social media archive of everything I've ever written http://werd.io/2014/my-indieweb-life-how-my-site-gives-me-an-awesome
(twitter.com/_/status/485836021947305985)
#
@neilcford
Looking for a #indieweb platform that isn’t written in php. Anyone got any recommendations? #indietech #indie2014 #indiewebcamp
(twitter.com/_/status/485836781846552576)
memecake and crystal joined the channel
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GWG
dariusdunlap: This is the test site I'm working on for a minimally styled starter theme. http://tiny.n9n.us/
friedcell joined the channel
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dariusdunlap
ok… I kinda see where you’re goin’ with that.
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GWG
dariusdunlap: Where?
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GWG
dariusdunlap: I'm always curious for outside perspective
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dariusdunlap
Just with the general concept of dimishing size representing age… it’s a nice design idea, if you can pull it off. :-)
#
GWG
dariusdunlap: I didn't do that.
#
GWG
The only font change is that articles have a smaller size than other post types
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dariusdunlap
Ah, your saying “detail”, as in the degree of excerpt or something. I was reading that in the context of the multi-column idea and thinking “size”, as in column width. Although I suppose they kinda go hand-in-hand.
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dariusdunlap
your-you’re
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aaronpk
good morning indiewebcamp!
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pdurbin
dariusdunlap: I think Loqi does some nicee substituting
#
Loqi
dude
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pdurbin
s/nicee/nice/
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Loqi
pdurbin meant to say: dariusdunlap: I think Loqi does some nice substituting
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pdurbin
maybe only for aaronpk :)
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GWG
dariusdunlap: I think I need better test content
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aaronpk
pdurbin: don't you still have Loqi on /ignore?
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pdurbin
whoops! I had un-ignored. lemme go fix
#
pdurbin
aaronpk: I shoulda checked the log before writing that :( ... all set now :)
#
@zoestagg
RT @benwerd: My #indieweb life: how my site gives me an awesome social media archive of everything I've ever written http://werd.io/2014/my-indieweb-life-how-my-site-gives-me-an-awesome
(twitter.com/_/status/485849824240336896)
#
@search8engine
RT @benwerd: My #indieweb life: how my site gives me an awesome social media archive of everything I've ever written http://werd.io/2014/my-indieweb-life-how-my-site-gives-me-an-awesome
(twitter.com/_/status/485851256577990656)
mcepl joined the channel
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@Stolen_Souls
RT @benwerd: My #indieweb life: how my site gives me an awesome social media archive of everything I've ever written http://werd.io/2014/my-indieweb-life-how-my-site-gives-me-an-awesome
(twitter.com/_/status/485853073588645888)
chrissaad, crystal and wolftune joined the channel
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@ControlSinatra
RT @t: Thanks @mrflix for figuring out CSS for an #indieweb People Focused Mobile Communication! Screenshot & source: http://tantek.com/2014/180/t2/css-indieweb-people-focused-communication
(twitter.com/_/status/485860426887204864)
#
JonathanNeal
`tell KartikPrabhu, wrote down some of my thoughts on IndieJS https://gist.github.com/jonathantneal/5a17003e8c64377d86da
osc and oscts joined the channel
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rascul
you typoed the !tell
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dariusdunlap
yeah, pdurbin, I forget about that substitution.
#
@iNavegar
My #indieweb life: how my site gives me an awesome social media archive of everything I've ever written http://werd.io/2014/my-indieweb-life-how-my-site-gives-me-an-awesome
(twitter.com/_/status/485867823739453440)
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@hmans
@neilcford #pants is very very very early stage. Webmention integration likely.
(twitter.com/_/status/485868274962661377)
Lt_Drebin, eschnou, yakker and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
@cstanhope
RT @benwerd: My #indieweb life: how my site gives me an awesome social media archive of everything I've ever written http://werd.io/2014/my-indieweb-life-how-my-site-gives-me-an-awesome
(twitter.com/_/status/485880111468523520)
chrissaad, mcepl and JasonO joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu
JonathanNeal: I am bit confused by your IndieJS example. Is the idea that instead of a browser plugin I host a JS on my site whose address is stored on a cookie. Then the log in site reads the cookie and loads the JS to do stuff. For instance, auto-filling my domain name in IndieAuth ?
scor joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu
is https://dev.twitter.com/docs broken for anyone else? can't sign it at all!
#
KartikPrabhu
twitter--
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Loqi
twitter has -5 karma
#
KartikPrabhu
goes back to working on marginalia
willnorris and JasonO joined the channel
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GWG
Hi, KartikPrabhu
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kylewm
KartikPrabhu: twitter docs are working for me
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: sorry wrong link this one: https://apps.twitter.com/
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kylewm
that too
#
KartikPrabhu
so you can sign in?
#
kylewm
i was already signed in, but i logged out and back in just now
#
kylewm
and it worked
#
KartikPrabhu
oh well poo
#
kylewm
still trying to do activitystreams stuff?
#
KartikPrabhu
yeah and I need auth key and all that
#
KartikPrabhu
trying on Chrome
#
KartikPrabhu
ha! seriously... the sign in does not work on FF
#
KartikPrabhu
WTF twitter
#
aaronpk
I've been hearing about redirect loop issues trying to sign in to other sites with firefox lately too...
#
KartikPrabhu
so it is a FF problem you think?
wolftune joined the channel
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aaronpk
not sure, I haven't tried it myself yet
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KartikPrabhu
hmmm blergh... goes back to marginalia
#
GWG
I need some brains.
#
GWG
What good elements do people put in footers?
#
GWG
I feel my footer lacks feet
lukebrooker joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu
JonathanNeal: was fragmention.js updated with the the exposed get element by text method?
#
KartikPrabhu
GWG: i have feed links and author credit
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KartikPrabhu
maybe license info
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kylewm
GWG: I like having <a rel=webmention> in the footer
#
GWG
Some people seem to duplicate their top menu
#
KartikPrabhu
i don't have a top menu
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GWG
KartikPrabhu: I know
#
GWG
Some people have a bottom menu but no top
wolftune joined the channel
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GWG
I've been trying to find sites to inspire me about that and decide if I want to try a more magazine style front page layout
#
KartikPrabhu
what is a magazine-style layout?
#
GWG
A blog style layout is a single column in reverse date order, newest first.
#
GWG
A magazine style layout is multi-column.
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rascul
mine is called a two column layout i think?
JasonO joined the channel
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GWG
rascul: It has two columns
#
GWG
But, a multicolumn layout would be interesting for notes.
#
KartikPrabhu
I don't understand classification of blog/magazine by layout <shrugs>
#
rascul
what is an example of a magazine layout?
#
GWG
KartikPrabhu: Blog 'Style' and Magazine 'Style'
#
KartikPrabhu
GWG: careful... sense of time is lost in multi-column layouts
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rascul
yeah my two column layout can make chronology hard
#
rascul
especially if i get a bunch of tall boxes on one side and short ones on the other
#
KartikPrabhu
also all elements in the column need to be of the same height
#
KartikPrabhu
rascul: yeah exactly
#
rascul
mine is in such a way so that the left and right cells aren't required to line up with each other
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GWG
KartikPrabhu: What if, for example, I want to separate articles, notes, photos, etc...
#
GWG
There are options
#
rascul
separate columns for notes, photos, etc?
#
KartikPrabhu
separate in what sense?
#
GWG
Well, there are a lot of senses
#
KartikPrabhu
but what is the one you want to do/make on your homepage.?
#
GWG
KartikPrabhu: I'm thinking about a lot of ones.
#
KartikPrabhu
GWG: pick one and see if multi-column actually helps you do it
#
GWG
For example, articles tend to be driven down by Notes
#
GWG
KartikPrabhu: I'm in the planning stages right now
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rascul
http://smashingmagazine.com has lots of good web design stuff
#
rascul
articles about designs and how to do them
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GWG
rascul: Been there
#
GWG
KartikPrabhu: I had this idea of separating the articles and the notes, as the frequency of notes will be more than articles
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KartikPrabhu
yeah that is a good idea... and multi-column might help. but also think of small-screens
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rascul
multi column is maybe not so good on small screens
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GWG
KartikPrabhu: I've done it before. On a small screen, the column wraps itself to single width again
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rascul
try looking at rascul.io with small screen it's not fun
scor joined the channel
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GWG
rascul: Your layout should be responsive and go single column on a smaller screen to solve that
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KartikPrabhu
so small screens get one-column. then why is there a need for large screens to have multi-column?
#
GWG
Currently, on my site, the sidebar goes below the content.
#
rascul
GWG it will be but i got tired of playing with the css for my site
#
rascul
i'll get back to it in due time
#
GWG
KartikPrabhu: Why not be aware of screen size and address it?
#
KartikPrabhu
what is it addressing by going multi-column?
#
GWG
Why should your site not take advantage of real estate?
#
GWG
KartikPrabhu: Explain the G+ layout to me?
#
rascul
i don't like when sites only use about 1/3 of the screen width
gregone joined the channel
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KartikPrabhu
GWG I don't like the G+ layout
#
GWG
I don't either
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rascul
it's kinda like mine but three columns it gets too crazy
#
KartikPrabhu
my point is don't try to fill up space because space exists. there should be some better reason, more reader-centric
#
GWG
I have a site I did where I have full width for the latest few articles and below it, just the titles and the image, if one exists
#
GWG
So, a single page can show more older stories to click to
#
KartikPrabhu
it could do that in a single column too
#
GWG
KartikPrabhu: It can. And it might.
#
KartikPrabhu
in any case... you should feel free to experiment regardless of my biased views
#
GWG
But I want to figure that out
#
GWG
KartikPrabhu: I'm in the...what do I want to try stage of that
#
GWG
But, look at this...
#
GWG
Without the grey boxes, those notes are tiny in terms of vertical space taken up
#
GWG
Which would be a traditional note
#
KartikPrabhu
your main column is too wide for the text that's why
#
GWG
KartikPrabhu: It is relative
#
GWG
If you have a small screen, it isn't
#
KartikPrabhu
GWG: yes. that's where responsive comes in
#
KartikPrabhu
also your site need not always expand to fill up the full width of the screen. Margins are your friends
#
GWG
I have a tiny one
#
GWG
I'm not sure what a margin would do though
#
KartikPrabhu
GWG: your site looks good on moderate sized screens. on large ones it is trying too hard to fill up the space. the main column becomes too wide for its text
#
GWG
How large is large?
#
KartikPrabhu
mine is 1600x900
#
GWG
Hmm...
#
GWG
You mean like that?
#
rascul
firefox web developer tools have a responsive design mode tool that makes it easy to see at different resolutions
#
GWG
Better?
#
KartikPrabhu
yeah that looks much better on really wide-screens, you might want to play with proportions a bit
#
rascul
agrees with KartikPrabhu
#
GWG
I switched from a fluid to fixed container
#
rascul
looks better when it doesn't try to take whole screen
#
KartikPrabhu
GWG: fluid is not always the best option... you don't always want to take up full width of screen estate
fmarier joined the channel
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GWG
I think I'm moving toward completion of this starter theme
#
GWG
The Mf2 markup is correct, I think
#
GWG
There...better
#
GWG
Big header, smaller content window
#
GWG
I think the effect is better now with a picture
#
GWG
I wonder if I should figure out the two grey boxes, which are my two optional widgetized h-card positions
scor, wolftune, JasonO and snarfed joined the channel
scor joined the channel
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@nachopavon
RT @benwerd: My #indieweb life: how my site gives me an awesome social media archive of everything I've ever written http://werd.io/2014/my-indieweb-life-how-my-site-gives-me-an-awesome
(twitter.com/_/status/485923205769863168)
fmarier and indie-visitor joined the channel
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aaronpk
considering automatically dropping my permashortlink from my tweets if I'm also including another URL in the tweet, so that twitter embeds the twitter card for the other link
#
GWG
aaronpk: What do you do with the shortlinks considering Twitter rewrites them?
#
GWG
That has been my issue
#
aaronpk
what do you mean?
#
GWG
Whenever I post a URL to twitter, it turns it into a t.co shortlink
#
GWG
I'm still trying to figure out why...if they keep rewriting my URLs, why I should to.
#
GWG
What the advantage is
#
aaronpk
well I like sending short links for the citation because twitter displays whatever you send them. my normal domain is so long that twitter displays it with ... at the end
#
aaronpk
so it's more for the human-readable aspect than anything
#
GWG
So...display purposes only?
#
aaronpk
if my main domain were short then it wouldn't really matter
#
GWG
Too late for both of us on that part
#
aaronpk
although...
#
aaronpk
I do occasionally post the full URL to twitter if I'm manually POSSEing an article to twitter
#
aaronpk
because in that case I want the full URL to appear on twitter so that people know it's a real post, not just a POSSE copy of a short note
#
Loqi
gives aaronpk the full URL to appear on twitter so that people know it
#
aaronpk
tantek.com is pretty short, and I would do the same with tantek.com vs ttk.me
#
aaronpk
e.g. tantek.com when sharing full articles, ttk.me when the content is a copy
#
aaronpk
s/copy/full copy/
#
Loqi
aaronpk meant to say: e.g. tantek.com when sharing full articles, ttk.me when the content is a full copy
#
GWG
I can't get Twitter POSSE to work the way I want it
#
GWG
It never seems to get it right
#
snarfed
aaronpk, GWG: just as a data point, i've come full circle w/dropping self links from my tweets too. i only include them now if there's substantial additional content
#
snarfed
one reason was noise and confusing UX, another was including the other link's card (if any) like aaronpk
#
KartikPrabhu
I have been doing the same. no backlink if it is a complete copy. backlink if it is modified or truncated. And for that purpose my long permalinks seems to be working fine
#
aaronpk
i think i'm going to switch to that
#
KartikPrabhu
aaronpk: there is still the concern that the POSSE copy then has no connection back to the original
#
aaronpk
yeah, not ideal, but it's really a limitation of twitter
#
aaronpk
cause with facebook I get the "See Original" links on all the posts