#indiewebcamp 2014-06-07

2014-06-07 UTC
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aaronpk !tell snarfed any chance you can rejigger bridgy so that it can pull in my facebook comments for this post? http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/06/05/2/chirpify
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi snarfed: aaronpk left you a message 1 hour, 35 minutes ago: any chance you can rejigger bridgy so that it can pull in my facebook comments for this post? http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/06/05/2/chirpify
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snarfed aaronpk: it'll take a little work, but i can try tomorrow!
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aaronpk ok thanks! turns out I stirred up quite a little storm with that so I'm writing a guest blog post to clear it up
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aaronpk which links to that note on my site, so I want to make sure it looks right
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acegiak and I'm back
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acegiak good morning
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aaronpk that's quite the timezone offset
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GWG Good evening.
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GWG I'm deep in reviewing 1985-1987.
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acegiak aaronpk: well it's just after midday here
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acegiak but it was like 2:30 am when i signed off last night
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acegiak so I slept in
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GWG acegiak: Sleeping in is good
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acegiak GWG: the years?
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GWG acegiak: Yes.
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GWG I'm preparing to ship some family photos to India.
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acegiak ah ok that makes sense
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GWG acegiak: I think this is the 4th or 5th shipment. I have been slowly sending off the old family albums for scanning.
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GWG I wonder...with this talk about moving content off silos...photos is an interesting area I haven't done much with
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aaronpk photos are hard
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GWG Especially when you have ones dating back to the turn of the 20th century
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acegiak So it turns out that marrying an artist/filmmaker/photographer has led to me just never taking photos anymore
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acegiak because I just kind of assume that she's taking pictures of anything important
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GWG acegiak: I just do everything digitally now.
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acegiak but I don't even take pictures on my phone?
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GWG I just spent a few days with my parents and grandparents. Every five seconds my mother was snapping a photo of something
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GWG I felt like I was being stalked by the paparazzi.
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GWG I'm much more..discriminating
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GWG acegiak: I merged your pull request, if you didn't see.
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acegiak GWG: I did see!
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GWG I want to expand the text. Also, for the multi-kind option, I want to change the category chooser to one without the "Most Used" and Add New buttons
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GWG While the user should have the option of adding custom entries, I don't think it should be from the editor.
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acegiak agreed
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GWG So, next, after I box up these photos to send them off, is the pre-population of the most common terms and a better picker.
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acegiak I'm just A) trying to prepare for a pahtfinder game and B) trying to figure out how to display the metadata with correct structure and markup without getting in the theme's way
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GWG After that, still have the creation of functions
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GWG acegiak: The answer to that is simple, I think
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GWG acegiak: Create the functions, and offer them for custom addition to a theme or automatically added using the the_content hook
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acegiak say "themes should mark things up properly" and give them hooks to get the things?
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acegiak yeah
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GWG So, a plugin aware theme can put the data wherever it wants. A non-aware theme can only put it in one of the existing hook locations.
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acegiak yeah
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GWG If you look at Tantek's site...
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GWG http://tantek.com/2014/156/t2/pdf14-thanks-kind-words-indieweb-talk
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GWG The URL in the box style could work for the hook version.
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GWG As could the In reply to at the top.
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GWG Just to use some simple examples to start
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GWG Good evening, tantek
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tantek good evening GWG!
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GWG Where in the world are you this evening?
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+155) "/* Storage format */ u-in-reply-to hrefs are read from storage" (view diff)
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tantek GWG - still NYC but flying out in the morning
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GWG It is morning here
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KevinMarks2 Hie
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GWG Hie to you too
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KevinMarks2 How was the pdf, Tantek?
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@FoundPixel How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/475160324602363904)
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acegiak GWG: so another toggle in plugin settings for whether or not to filter the_content and injext indieweb markup into it or just let the theme go looking for hooks?
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GWG acegiak: Just let the theme handle it, but yes.
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GWG It is better to have features designed that way, I think.
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GWG Honestly, whoever thought glue paper was a good idea for photo albums...
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@djp1974 RT @withknown: Working to bridge the #indieweb knowledge gap http://stream.withknown.com/2014/working-to-bridge-the-indieweb-knowledge-gap (twitter.com/_/status/475184834571034624)
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@djp1974 RT @withknown: "The era of Facebook is an anomaly. The idea of everybody going to one site is just weird." http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/13/5488558/danah-boyd-interview-the-era-of-facebook-is-an-anomaly #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/475185096379473920)
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@djp1974 RT @FoundPixel: How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/475185175366615040)
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@jburrows I'm planning on being here: IndieWebCamp http://indiewebcamp.com/?utm_content=buffer97e09&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer (twitter.com/_/status/475187420120748032)
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@the_nomi RT @withknown: Working to bridge the #indieweb knowledge gap http://stream.withknown.com/2014/working-to-bridge-the-indieweb-knowledge-gap (twitter.com/_/status/475195421795815424)
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@the_nomi RT @withknown: "The era of Facebook is an anomaly. The idea of everybody going to one site is just weird." http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/13/5488558/danah-boyd-interview-the-era-of-facebook-is-an-anomaly #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/475195447204937730)
v0, Guest93414, KevinMarks2, sparverius, iboxifoo, KevinMarks, b0bg0d____, TimAbraldes, jacus, Garbee, binbasti, Jeena, voxpelli, XgF, piney0, ozatomic, etymancer, bret, walkah, hadleybeeman, bigbluehat, edrex, dietrich, acegiak, markmhendrickson, scor, hidgw and petermolnar joined the channel
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Loqi petermolnar: tantek left you a message 12 hours, 1 minute ago: re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-06-06#t1402065802 link rel=author is respected by Google both by a direct link to a Google+ profile, OR (and preferably) by a link to your own website, which itself has rel=me to a Google+ profile.
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Loqi petermolnar: tantek left you a message 11 hours, 48 minutes ago: documented Google rel=author support here: http://indiewebcamp.com/authorship#Google_Search
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@FutureheadsTech How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb - http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/475220342462373888)
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rascul http://evertpot.com/http-11-updated/
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cweiske The Location header can now contain relative uri's as well as fragment identifiers.
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cweiske oh
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rascul wikipedia tells about that a little https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_location
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@ShaneHudson RT @withknown: "The era of Facebook is an anomaly. The idea of everybody going to one site is just weird." http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/13/5488558/danah-boyd-interview-the-era-of-facebook-is-an-anomaly #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/475250949179867137)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/459805099096039424/70624128 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/NYC/Guest_List (webmention)
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@djp1974 RT @FutureheadsTech: How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb - http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/475265071015153664)
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@djp1974 RT @FoundPixel: How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/475265216423268353)
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@visitlakeanna Policy:No #Facebook #dataslave formats, ie #instagram #whatsapp #OculusRift will be interacted with by this account. #indieRespect #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/475268570050347008)
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kylewm snarfed: good morning! would love to discuss https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/171 when you have a chance :) aaron's issue seems to bear out your analysis... power user -> more likely to be caught in the donut hole
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snarfed hey kylewm! agreed
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snarfed welcome back btw? :P
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snarfed looks like we have a pretty good diagnosis, but no clear proposal for what to do yet…?
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kylewm thanks! got lucky catching an earlier flight home last night, that never happens these days
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kylewm yes i think that's exactly right
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snarfed nice!
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snarfed ok
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snarfed i'll be in and out this morning but around this afternoon
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kylewm the simplest thing to do, afaict, would be to treat it as a failure, and then it would hook into the retry for 3 days mechanism right?
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GWG snarfed: Can I make a proposal?
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snarfed kylewm: aha, interesting, could work
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snarfed GWG: shoot!
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GWG Basically, what kylewm just said.
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GWG But there is one alternative
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kylewm but without at least some smarts, it would mean a lot more work for the base case user
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GWG A mention coming in with no matching post generates a recheck of all unmatched posts within the last 72 hours
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kylewm (base case user = user who rarely/never sends webmentions)
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GWG You also have the manual recheck option as a secondary.
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snarfed GWG: whoa! sadly, that wouldn't really scale
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snarfed the vast majority of posts are unmatched
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GWG Shame.
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GWG A manual recheck option would work as a temporary measure.
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kylewm that's true
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GWG It would require user action, but it would use less resources than an automatic.
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snarfed eh, it's rare in the wild so far, and i think we can come up with a real fix
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snarfed kylewm: why would retrying create more work for the base case user?
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kylewm manual recheck would not be good enough for https://www.brid.gy/facebook/11500459
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kylewm so many mentions
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kylewm snarfed: wouldn't it retry every failed mention that ever comes in?
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snarfed oh, load, not human work. got it
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GWG What about on the other side?
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snarfed sadly i have to run, but i'll keep thinking about this
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GWG You use an empty link to the endpoint to generate a webmention which engages the publisher.
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GWG Why not an empty link to generate an update?
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kylewm snarfed: no worries, i may dump some ideas on the github issue
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GWG Or would that generate too many webmentions to Bridgy?
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snarfed we could use different logic for users who we've seen a syndication link for in the past
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snarfed which would mitigate the load since that's so few
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kylewm good idea
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snarfed GWG: those are all ok as workarounds, but i'm still convinced we can handle this fully automatically
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GWG Is 3 days the only default retry you have in the system?
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snarfed thanks guys!
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GWG I would think the links would be in in 95% of the cases within half an hour
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GWG Bye, snarfed
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kylewm GWG: I believe it tries a few times and then starts to exponentially backoff up to 3 days
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snarfed yup
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GWG kylewm: Okay. I really should look at that code.
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GWG Writing, not so good...reading/understand...better.
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kylewm GWG: and yeah, for the general case, probably just a second polling would take care of it
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snarfed https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/queue.yaml
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GWG kylewm: Still trying to perfect the posting UI, but will help any way I can with suggestions/testing.
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GWG On that note, hungry, need food.
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kylewm me too :)
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GWG On the food, or the help?
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GWG kylewm: You are the poster child for my webmention testing.
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GWG So, you've been very helpful.
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kylewm ha, glad my face has been useful
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kylewm oh and i was talking about food/coffee
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@FlaviusHarabor How we're on the verge of an amazing new open web #indieweb - http://werd.io/2014/how-were-on-the-verge-of-an-amazing-new-open (twitter.com/_/status/475306669191491585)
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aaronpk kylewm: all those mentions from facebook failed because "no link found": https://aaronparecki.com/webmention/D7AnDffV
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aaronpk looks like it prioritized the bitly link at the end of my facebook post as the original post URL rather than using the discovered syndication url from my home page? (even though it sent the proper URL in the target parameter)
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aaronpk hmm, openstreetmap supports openid login, and if I add openstreetmap oauth to indieauth.com, then it seems like you could get into a login loop :)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indie-visitor hello
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aaronpk hello indie-visitor!
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indie-visitor aaronpk: hello there. IndieWebCamp seems to be quite exciting. I'm a bit overwhelmed by all the content available on the site.
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indie-visitor it's one of those situations where you end up with dozens of open tabs
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aaronpk indeed! we try to document everything, but can sometimes be overwhelming to start out
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aaronpk what is your name or your personal website?
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aaronpk if you already have a website, a good place to start is http://indiewebify.me
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GWG I'm waiting for the "So You Wanna be an Indiewebster..."
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indie-visitor aaronpk: thanks, I'll check it out
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aaronpk it should give you some easy steps and links out to specific pages of the wiki to get going
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snarfed hey aaronpk, i made bridgy reprocess the facebook responses for the chirpify post, and it looks like it sent them - https://www.brid.gy/facebook/11500459 - but i don't see them on your post itself
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snarfed (just fyi)
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aaronpk snarfed: I saw! looks like the mentions don't include a link to my site
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/webmention/D7AnDffV
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aaronpk probably it prioritized the bitly link at the end of my facebook post as the original post URL rather than using the discovered syndication url?
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snarfed ah, i see. looking
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aaronpk I didn't include a "see original" link on that facebook post
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snarfed np, the syndication link should be enough
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snarfed unrelated: hey kylewm…curious, it looks like we lost the code that handles the fetch_hfeed kwarg at some point? not urgent, just odd. https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/original_post_discovery.py#L41
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snarfed ahahahahahahahaha
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snarfed oh man we misdiagnosed this soooo badly
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snarfed aaronpk: the reason bridgy didn't pick up your facebook syndication link is because it doesn't know the web site for your facebook account
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GWG breaks out the popcorn to watch snarfed and kylewm work it out.
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snarfed on https://www.brid.gy/facebook/11500459 , see how there's no domain next to your name?
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snarfed GWG: good call, this was a comedy of errors
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aaronpk oh! what?
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aaronpk how do I set that?
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snarfed looking at your fb profile…
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aaronpk it's on there... maybe it's not public for some reason
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snarfed it should be in the web site field there. if it is, then you probably last signed up for fb before we added the code that extracts it
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GWG I lied though
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aaronpk ahh
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GWG is eating pita chips, not popcorn
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snarfed heh
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aaronpk should I log in to bridgy again?
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snarfed for fb, yes, please do
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snarfed silly of us
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aaronpk there it goes
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aaronpk heh ok now how do I make it process those again?
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snarfed :P honestly easiest way is probably curl
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snarfed first let's check that the mf2 source urls have the right in-reply-to
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snarfed taking forever to load https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/facebook/11500459/10101454731717886/10101454731717886_10101455664054476 , which is a good sign (that it's processing aaronparecki.com's h-feed)
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snarfed ….oooor it could just 500
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snarfed whee
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aaronpk oh dear
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aaronpk did I break bridgy?
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snarfed :P no, but this has definitely exposed at least one bug, which is good
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snarfed thanks!
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aaronpk hm you know I never actually did add proper h-feed markup, right now my home page is just a list of h-entries
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snarfed we support that
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aaronpk ok
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snarfed since it's already working for your instagram, twitter, etc
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aaronpk oh right
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snarfed we'll get this all fixed, but it may take a little time. sorry aaronpk
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aaronpk ha ok no worries
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aaronpk hm since i'm returning a URL to check the status of a webmention (e.g. http://aaronparecki.com/webmention/D7AnDffV ) I wonder if it's worth having a way to retry that mention given that URL
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snarfed maybe just an array of urls and mime types
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snarfed and servers would expect a minimal format from the json type, e.g. presence or absence of an 'error' field
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GWG snarfed: I have a question for you about the bridgy site
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snarfed GWG: shoot
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GWG Why not unify the various different services under a single user? Instead of having them separately?
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snarfed GWG: agreed! https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/38
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snarfed it's just more work and hasn't been a priority
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snarfed i happily accept pull requests!
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GWG snarfed: I was just curious in light of the pages of users
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GWG But, I have projects in progress at the moment. Will keep it in mind.
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snarfed yeah, /users is way too big
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snarfed a more targeted fix for that is https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/167
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GWG That would be a way of reducing it
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snarfed good call on focusing
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KevinMarks weird: google assumes that a publication only empoys authors with distinct names: https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/1408986
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GWG I have, just in the Indieweb sphere, the Semantic Comments thing, the Taxonomy one, and another theme rewrite.
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snarfed GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 6 karma
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GWG I can leave the Comment one alone for a bit.
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GWG The Taxonomy one I'd like to get to a point that it is usable.
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snarfed KevinMarks: sounds like a limit of the implementation
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snarfed probably not an intentional design choice
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aaronpk oh I clearly should mark up my webmention status pages as an h-entry
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KartikPrabhu !tell bear: ronkyuu doesn't actually use mf2py but it is in the requirements with an older version. Should I just remove it?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek KevinMarks - that support.google page is poor. as is the rel=author page it links to
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tantek all they describe is the worst way of linking to your G+ profile
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tantek gave them feedback
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tantek "How helpful is this article: Not very helpful"
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tantek it's such a bad article I don't want to even cite it :/
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KartikPrabhu aaagh... ?author really google
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snarfed ok aaronpk, the mf2 pages for your fb responses should have the right in-reply-to link now
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snarfed found the bug that caused that, i'll cc you
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aaronpk ooo
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aaronpk nice!
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aaronpk thanks!!
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yeah, documented here: http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-author#query_parameter_alternative
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aaronpk now I just need a way to retry the mentions. wonder if a POST request to the status URL makes sense?
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aaronpk or I guess if I can pull out the source+target from that status URL then I can just make a regular webmention request again
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tantek tries to catch up on logs to understand the context on what aaronpk is saying.
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tantek thinks this sounds pretty deep.
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aaronpk long thread with stuff in between. TL;DR, I return a webmention status URL like http://aaronparecki.com/webmention/D7AnDffV and now that bridgy is updated, I want to retry processing that mention
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snarfed aaronpk: personally, i'd just extract source+target manually for now
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snarfed and on the third time i need to do it again, i'd think about automating
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snarfed but i can get you the list of source URLs
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aaronpk i'm making that status page into an h-entry so that I can pull out the source and target easily
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tantek why an h-entry?
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tantek and not an h-x-webmention with u-source u-target properties?
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aaronpk ah sure
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aaronpk can't I just leave out the x?
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tantek if you want to spend more time documenting use-cases and examples in the wild on the wiki first ;)
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aaronpk heh
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aaronparecki.com edited /webmention (+69) "/* More status codes */ add 202 if the status is checked while still queued" (view diff)
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aaronpk hm just found an interesting reason to use text rather than numeric codes for returning the webmention status
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aaronpk regarding http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#More_status_codes
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aaronpk 'The Webmention is currently <span class="p-status">queued</span> for processing'
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aaronpk I can do 'The Webmention is currently <abbr class="p-status" title="202">queued</abbr> for processing.' just as easily I suppose
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tommorris is reading @meyerweb’s tweets and currently want to punch a wall.
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tommorris wonders whether IndieWebCamp should have a charitable component.
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GWG tommorris: What is making you angry?
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tommorris just… the futility of human existence, the cruel injustice of life, the gargantuan task of fixing it.
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GWG Can't help you there, tommorris
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tommorris rustles up some Red Bull and goes back to working on his site.
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GWG tommorris: How is that going?
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tommorris Slowly. Want to add photo storage as a way to get out of Flickr-land.
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tommorris I don’t trust Yahoo!
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GWG I'm using a paid service myself.
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tantek I'm using paid Flickr myself.
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GWG I've been using Smugmug.
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GWG I don't want most of the family photos public
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aaronpk still uses paid flickr
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tommorris I’m using formerly-paid-now-expired Flickr. And Commons. And Instagram.
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tommorris And Facebook.
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tommorris My Instagram and Facebook photos are private. But unifying the public stuff in one place would be nice.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/benwerd/474780826186424322/235193328 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014 (webmention)
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GWG But still a silo.
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tommorris Commons gets the encyclopedic/educational pictures. But I’m photographing a lot of abstracta.
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tommorris I’m liking http://paulstamatiou.com/photos/ btw.
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GWG Nice
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aaronpk here's my prototype h-x-webmention http://aaronparecki.com/webmention/D7AnDffV.json
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GWG Design or the photography?
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aaronpk added mf2 properties to everything that was on the status page
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tommorris GWG: the design. I haven’t really looked at the photography for whether it is good photography, but just how it is presented
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tommorris autoplay video is about the only problem I can find with Paul’s design.
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GWG I hate autoplay
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tommorris perhaps I should document on the wiki people who are publishing photography on their site well.
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GWG Many people are
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tommorris especially if they are documenting the process
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tommorris also, tantek: tommorris.org now has significantly more Helvetica. thought you might appreciate it.
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tantek nice. I bet it loads faster ;)
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GWG I'm missing a reference here
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tommorris Still got one Google Web Font loading. I mostly changed because a few people complained about the font and I sort of grew bored with it
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tommorris But I don’t think it’s possible to grow bored with Helvetica.
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tantek it's good staying power
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aaronpk is not a fan of using custom fonts. never had a good experience with it.
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tommorris So, at work, a programmer went through and did some hardcore optimization and took a routine that was taking nine minutes to run and managed to get it to run in three seconds.
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tommorris Working with speed freak optimizers is kind of infectious.
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GWG tommorris: Have you seen the documentary?
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tommorris No, actually. On my to-watch list.
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snarfed off topic (and #indiechat worthy): can anyone recommend an instagram search engine that can search by both username and hashtag in the same query?
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tantek snarfed, I want that too, so I can at least incrementally implement search for my photos even though they're on silos (Flickr, IG)
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snarfed totally!
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tantek tries to connect snarfed's query to an #indiewebcamp use-case ;)
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snarfed lots of IG search engines but haven't found this yet
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aaronpk has that now that his photos are pesos'd to his site :) http://aaronparecki.com/tag/pdx
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snarfed tantek: web search engines do have a leg up on most search use cases
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tantek snarfed, they're still horrible at faceted search
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snarfed fair
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tantek and silos are horrible at searching themselves, especially by user, though Twitter's is actually not back.
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snarfed exactly
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snarfed FB too. but IG is worthless
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aaronpk that's cause twitter bought a search company
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tantek which is ironic when silos are run by search companies. ahem.
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tantek aaronpk - Summize
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tantek though really what Twitter bought was an engineering team - they just had a few developers, not very senior at that, before buying summize
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tantek tommorris, you may like #indiechat :)
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tantek snarfed, at least IG supports showing tag results
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tantek whereas FB itself can't even surface tag results most of the time
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snarfed tantek: eh, they're good at different things. FB's new search is pretty amazing
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snarfed hashtags just aren't a priority for them
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snarfed and IG's search is *app only* :(
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rascul free ssl cert for open source projects https://www.globalsign.com/ssl/ssl-open-source/?
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tantek snarfed - it's just odd that facebook auto-links hashtags in their posts, but then clicking those auto-links is like 99% useless
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snarfed heh, sure
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tantek I mean why bother with the links if they don't give you anything good?
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tantek some sort of feature chicken game between teams?
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KevinMarks why not just do https://www.google.com/webhp?q=site:instagram.com+%23indieweb+benwerd
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snarfed KevinMarks: i tried, it doesn't work :/
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tantek same here
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snarfed at least for mine. https://www.google.com/search?q=thejohnnysmith+surrealism+site%3Ainstagram.com
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tommorris has private instagram, hopes it cannot be found on the google.
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KevinMarks looks like instagram has revoked my api key
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tantek so speaking of search
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tantek are there any tools for creating a compendium (like complete copy of) search results for a certain hashtag across a certain from/to time window? (e.g. even of only Twitter)
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tantek e.g. I want all #PDF14 tweets from the past 3 days. Go. Come back with a big HTML document (at some point).
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KevinMarks i wrote one aeons ago but it relied on the atom api
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KevinMarks you could do that with datasift, but they charge
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tommorris Storify?
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tommorris Closest I can think of and it’s fairly far from the use case
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tantek tommorris - doesn't Storify require that you manually add each tweet?
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tommorris possibly. haven’t used it in a long time
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tommorris (and I’ve seen Storify be used by some really creepy stalkers.)
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KevinMarks except you have to click 'add more" each 20 results
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KevinMarks wow: https://twitter.com/blogdiva/timelines/475414860407533568
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aaronpk whoa, I somehow missed the launch of twitter's "custom timelines" https://dev.twitter.com/docs/custom-timelines https://blog.twitter.com/2013/custom-timelines-in-tweetdeck
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KevinMarks theres an API too
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aaronpk still have an open issue on p3k for doing that on my own site https://github.com/aaronpk/p3k/issues/8
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aaronpk huh, I need some way for an authorization endpoint to be able to acknowledge that it is in fact an indieauth authorization endpoint
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aaronpk kind of like a query of the endpoint's capabilities
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aaronpk i guess that's like openid connect's "provider config" thing http://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-discovery-1_0.html#ProviderConfig
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aaronpk and ugh, want to avoid json, but also don't want to require parsing microformats for this
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aaronpk i guess that leaves http headers?
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tantek checks logs again
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tantek yes - that sounds like an http headers thing
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tantek I'm thinking of the error if it's not - method not supported
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aaronpk if it's not, then it'll either return http 200 cause it's some other page, or 404
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tantek ahah 405 Method Not Allowed
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aaronpk like if you for some reason add this: <link href="https://github.com/login/oauth/authorize" rel="authorization_endpoint"> instead of <link href="https://indieauth.com/auth" rel="authorization_endpoint">