#indiewebcamp 2014-05-19

2014-05-19 UTC
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bret aaronpk: awesome
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bret cant go through it right now but skimming looks great
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bret made progress today: http://bret.io/2014/05/18/ownyourgram/ quite a few kinks to work out though
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kylewm bret: what's the "incoming webmentions" part of your site? (/pages/inbox)
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bret kylewm webmentions sent to just bret.io
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kylewm ahh gotcha, that seems obvious now
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bret eventually it will be activity
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kylewm nice job on the micropub stuff!
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bret thanks kylewm!
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bret still a few things left to do
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bret doing multipart in node... dont recomend
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bret not that it isnt all that bad once figured out, but the documentation is terrible
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KevinMarks that's a comment that applies to lots of node
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bret ill love node then ill hate it then ill love it then ill hate it
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bret maybe love comes with fluency, but this seems to be true of any powerful tool
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KartikPrabhu Q: should I store a BOM while using utf-8 encoded files for storing post data?
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GWG Anyone around?
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aaronparecki.com edited /IndieAuth (+12) "dfn, minor wording changes" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /How_to_set_up_web_sign-in_on_your_own_domain (-163) "minor wording/formatting changes" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /Web_sign-in (+1) "minor grammar changes" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com created /token_endpoint (+27) "r" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com created /token-endpoint (+6243) "moved content from ownyourgram.com docs" (view diff)
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aaronpk hey look a new page that isn't a stub
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aaronpk *gasp*
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aaronparecki.com edited /token-endpoint (-10) "not a stub" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /auth-brainstorming (+25) "/* Token Endpoint */ add link to main article" (view diff)
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KevinMarks KartikPrabhu: utf8 doesn't need a BOM (it doesn't have a byte ordering). However some tools expect one
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KevinMarks you may need to strip one, but you shouldn't make one unless notepad is your target app
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Loqi [@lbrt] @vasilis highlights are helpful
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Loqi why the fade-out? All the other implementations on http://indiewebcamp.com/fragmention seem to highlight permanently. (http://twtr.io/mU9qpzNxM4)
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@m4rch RT @indieboxproject: Linux Magazin: Indie Box soll Facebook, Google and Co. ersetzen (in German) http://www.linux-magazin.de/NEWS/Indie-Box-soll-Facebook-Google-und-Co.-ersetzen #indiebox #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/468330828872036352)
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notifix Superfeedr Track Feed for include=indieweb: En vrac après les élections
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notifix http://bit.ly/1eFaOvK
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GWG Anyone other than KartikPrabhu opted to disable local comments in favor of webmentions/backfeed only?
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cweiske I don't have comments at all, but accept linkbacks (which are not shown) :)
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pfefferle :)
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GWG cweiske: I'm just thinking about it because all my local comments seem to be spam
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cweiske you have to cope with spam eventually
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GWG Yes
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GWG But if the discourse is coming from other networks...then they have to cope with it
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cweiske even today I could spam all your blogs by sending out spammy webmentions
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cweiske properly mf2-formatted
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GWG cweiske: Agreed
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GWG cweiske: I was just thinking he might have a point.. http://kartikprabhu.com/article/no-comment
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voxpelli you can probably use something like https://spamicity.info/ eventually to get rid of the spam if/when that becomes a problem
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cweiske yep. I follow the resoning
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cweiske s/resoning/reasoning/
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Loqi cweiske meant to say: yep. I follow the reasoning
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cweiske which is why I force people to email me instead of commenting
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cweiske the mails I get are worth reading
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voxpelli or webmention might perhaps follow Salmon eventually and get some kind of signing which makes it harder for spammers to act like they were honest persons
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GWG The one legitimate local comment I got...the person asked me... "Why do I need an email address to comment on your site?"
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GWG My plan at the moment was to try and switch to webactions.
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GWG And we'll see if I leave the comment form up
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GWG Bearing in mind, if I don't, the spambots often bypass it anyway.
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GWG cweiske: By the way, I like the simple design you use
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petermolnar are there any out-of-the-box wordpress modules to reply to an article with webmention with a post?
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GWG petermolnar: For you to make a post on your site a reply?
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voxpelli petermolnar: https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention is likely what you want I think
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voxpelli pfefferle who made it
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cweiske voxpelli, I don't think so
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cweiske i think petermolnar wants an UI to reply
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GWG petermolnar: IF you are talking about a UI in Wordpress...it is on my list of things to do.
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pfefferle i started something like that with https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-reply-context
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pfefferle it adds a field where you can type in some urls that should be pinged and adds the urls on top of the post
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pfefferle but this isn’t much more than functional
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GWG pfefferle: I was working on something I called Indieweb Custom Post Types. I wanted to create different entry editors.
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petermolnar no, I meant the following:
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petermolnar - there's an article somewhere on one's site
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petermolnar - I want to post a special, reply-like post on my site which is indeed a reply to that article
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petermolnar I know that if I link it and use that webmention plugin, it will take care of it more or less, but my post will be a regular post which some might prefer to avoid
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petermolnar GWG that is basically I was thinking about as well: custom post types would be good for this
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GWG petermolnar: http://indiewebcamp.com/User:David.shanske.com
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GWG Read the notes
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GWG I'm trying to plan the types.
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GWG I want to give it thought because I don't want to change the structure significantly after I plan it out
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pfefferle I implemented it in a very early version of the webmention plugin https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/commit/397ea28bff6131e7563e811c2def1e04415468e3
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pfefferle perhaps it helps
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GWG pfefferle, as always, appreciate your contribution
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pfefferle :)
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GWG I intend to appropriate some of your work
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barnabywalters GWG: RE spam, there are a bunch of different spam prevention techniques outlined on http://indiewebcamp.com/spam
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barnabywalters the reader I’m working on at the moment includes an implementation of the social graph based white/blacklisting
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barnabywalters talking of which…
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barnabywalters what is spam?
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Loqi spam is unsolicited content, often transmitted via email, submitted as blog comments or posted to popular wikis http://indiewebcamp.com/spam
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pfefferle GWG: What do you think about starting with these semantics https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-semantic-linkbacks#what-about-the-semantic-comment-types
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GWG pfefferle, as cpts or a custom taxonomy?
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pfefferle as post type
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GWG I worry about creating too many post types
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pfefferle perhaps we can combine the post type thing with the https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-reply-context stuff
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GWG I was trying to figure out how to condense it. That was why I was holding off, to plan
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pfefferle why not dropping them completely and only work on the reply context for all of these types?
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pfefferle the advantage: it would also work for all the existing types
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pfefferle the plugin only allows replys atm. but it shouldn’t be a problem to add a radio button to choose the type of the ”žcontext“
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petermolnar I don't think custom post types will be an issue event if there's a bunch of them
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petermolnar it would make sense to have custom type for repost, like, reply, etc.
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pfefferle ”žlike“, ”žreply“, … for example
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petermolnar ( by the way, is anyone working on a plugin for a custom post type, which accepts and url, curls the h-entry from the target and displays it as repost? )
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GWG That idea I can get behind.
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GWG pfefferle, let me think about merging my cpt thoughts with the reply context plugin
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GWG I am admittedly a better planner then cider
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GWG coder
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pfefferle sure! If you have some more ideas, feel free to add them as issues
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pfefferle I have no problem coding them ;)
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GWG pfefferle, I may take your suggestion and design a cpt with a taxonomy for repky contexts and see if it looks like it might work.
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pfefferle I like the concept of simple plugins, that’s why I published so many
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GWG I started out trying to put everything together. I have been breaking things into different pieces
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pfefferle I think it makes it easier to customize the final result
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pfefferle I also merged some of them into an indieweb plugin
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GWG I saw.
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pfefferle it also makes it easier to use only parts of the stack
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pfefferle or to replace some functionality with some other functions or plugins
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GWG pfefferle, I had to take over the whole comment template for that plugin I posted. I intend to make some of the other ideas that I have extensions to it.
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GWG I want to use hooks
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pfefferle Yes, I also wanted to use the default comment template and extend it with hooks, but it misses some importend hooks :(
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pfefferle btw. I released a simple webmention test-enpoint https://github.com/pfefferle/node-webmention-testendpoint
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voxpelli pfefferle: looks interesting, kind of the opposite part of https://github.com/voxpelli/node-webmention-testpinger, right? :)
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pfefferle it provides a customizable test-post and a test endpoint that loggs into the shell
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pfefferle yes :)
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pfefferle voxpelli wanted to check the werdpress webmention plugin both ways and loved the idea of your test-pinger
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snarfed pfefferle: you might also like https://checkmention.appspot.com/
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pfefferle snarfed oh yes, thanks!
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning gentlemen
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pfefferle snarfed: have you already tried it against the plugin?
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snarfed yup, kbs used the plugin on my site to test as he was developing it
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snarfed works great!
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pfefferle does it mean that the tool works great or the plugin is save against xss?
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pfefferle ;)
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snarfed both!
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pfefferle nice :)
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tantek good morning indiewebcamp!
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tantek pfefferle, snarfed, very cool! could you guys add testendpoint and checkmention to: http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#Services ?
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pfefferle sure
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voxpelli pfefferle: add mine as well while you're at it?
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pfefferle yep
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snarfed.org edited /webmention (+188) "/* Services */ checkmention" (view diff)
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notizblog.org edited /webmention (+663) "added testpinger and testendpoint" (view diff)
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cweiske.de edited /webmention (+127) "/* Libraries */" (view diff)
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snarfed kylewm: the fb bridgy app got approved for publish_actions. feel free to retry if you want!
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pdurbin !tell kbs this is what I meant about a more full citation http://thedata.org/blog/joint-declaration-data-citation-principles-and-dataverse
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm snarfed: oh man, I revoked and reauthed my bridgy account, still getting an error publishing. BUT when I uncheck "Include link", it works! seems like your original suspicion that the custom action was the problem might have been correct
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aaronpk GWG: I ditched local comments long before I implemented webmention
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tommorris adactio: i can haz dconstruct ticket. :)
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tommorris will sort out IWCUK wiki page when I’m done with work
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adactio tommorris: yay!
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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barnabywalters going to order mine later on today!
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barnabywalters I’ll be missing the June IWC completely, so need to make up for it in September ;)
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tommorris there are reasons I’m glad I’m contracting rather than Ph.D-ing. having money and having an expense account being two of them. :)
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barnabywalters “Web Wishes” http://darobin.github.io/web-wish/
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snarfed kylewm: looks like it failed for a while, but now works?
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kylewm snarfed: see the log from ~830
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snarfed ah, looking
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kylewm snarfed: the 'action links' think looks super complicated. they expect you to provide an endpoint (with the same domain as your app) that accepts a JSON request from facebook and returns some data. https://developers.facebook.com/docs/opengraph/using-actions/v2.0#howto-actionlinks ... those of us doing See Original must be using an unintentional loophole
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snarfed oh wow, bleh
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kylewm to do it correctly for Bridgy, I think we'd need all See Original links to provide a bridgy endpoint that would redirect to the original post :(
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snarfed ah, i was wondering why your last attempt, which included a link, succeeded
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snarfed but it just deferred to the original success without the link
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kylewm ohhh
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snarfed i'm guessing you find that action link endpoint thing on your own, right? i didn't see any new error message or info in the logs
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kylewm yeah error message is still opaque 500 -- which is what makes me think setting actions to just any old thing is an unexpected loophole
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snarfed yeah makes sense. ok, given that, i'm inclined to drop the see original action link and go back to a normal link
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kylewm they didn't fathom that someone might try sending an action without registering it first!
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kylewm that sounds right to me
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kylewm does bridgy remember published posts forever? like, could it conceivably look up the original based on its facebook id?
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snarfed heh
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snarfed it does remember them forever, but let me see what's indexed
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snarfed the fb post id is buried inside the Publish.published property, which is JSON, so it's not easy to query against
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kylewm gotcha
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snarfed that's sent back to webmention clients though, so they can easily generate rel-syndication links based on it
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snarfed https://www.brid.gy/about#response
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-5 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-5 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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kylewm so, See Original as implemented by non-bridgy sites is probably more brittle than we expected
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kylewm I'll add a note about this on [[POSSE_to_Facebook]]
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snarfed thanks!
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snarfed cc aaronpk ^^. tldr: our 'see original' fb links aren't as nicely supported than we think. that they somewhat work now is kind of a fluke.
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-4 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-07-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-4 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-07-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-5 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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Loqi benwerd: aaronpk left you a message on 5/8 at 3:27pm: your old search URLs are 404! you should add a redirect rule for them http://werd.io/search/?q=%23indiewebcamp
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Loqi benwerd: tantek left you a message on 5/9 at 5:45pm: great job this week with the projects you've launched! your efforts have really leveled up the #indieweb and #ownyourdata momentum.
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benwerd aaronpk: Thanks for the heads up! Correcting that now
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benwerd tantek: Thank you. Today is actual Day One of full-time work on Known. I'm bouncing-up-and-down excited.
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kylewm.com edited /POSSE_to_Facebook (+488) "/* See Original */ added caveat that this seems brittle" (view diff)
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barnabywalters benwerd: we’re all going to have to step up our game to prevent Known from becoming a new monoculture ;)
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kylewm.com edited /POSSE_to_Facebook (+3) "/* See Original */ offset warning with an indent" (view diff)
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barnabywalters but seriously, amazing work and great to hear you’re working on it with erinjo full-time now
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benwerd barnabywalters: I'm committed to the anti-monoculture idea, and want to help with that too! And thank you :)
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snarfed kylewm: thanks for the wiki edits!
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snarfed benwerd: agreed. congratulations! we're all really excited for you
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benwerd It should go without saying that Known builds on the amazing work all of you are doing, so I'm really, really grateful for your support. And looking forward to participating in the community more fully from here on out.
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barnabywalters (just to clarify: by monoculture I’m not referring to your own intentions, but to the possibility of people only using Known because it’s so good)
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benwerd barnabywalters: I got you! I actually think there's no danger of that - but I want to devote resources (time at first) to helping other indieweb projects too.
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barnabywalters benwerd: in a similar vein, are you following the progress with micropub at all?
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benwerd yepyep
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benwerd and I can't wait to work on it
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benwerd not to mention, cough, indieauth
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benwerd (giant glaring missing indieweb feature)
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benwerd btw, snarfed, am I imagining that bridgy leveled up? It seems to be pinging from my Twitter, even though it doesn't link back, which is incredible
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snarfed benwerd: it did! it now supports rel-syndication links, so you don't need links in the silo posts themselves
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snarfed that was all kylewm, he did really great work there
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benwerd kylewm++, it is completely awesome
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Loqi kylewm has 12 karma
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kylewm.com edited /POSSE_to_Facebook (+13) "/* See Original */ clarify that the endpoint is expected to be on the app's domain, not the user's (if they are different)" (view diff)
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kylewm oh thanks benwerd and snarfed! :)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /posse-post-discovery (+2) "/* Algorithm */ indentation" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /posse-post-discovery (+8) "/* Algorithm */ code" (view diff)
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GWG aaronpk, good to know.
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@katelosse @kevinmarks I really like #indieweb but if I am using Squarespace to build site I am not really indieweb, right? :/ (twitter.com/_/status/468439043563192320)
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GWG Hmm.. does Square space have APIs?
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KevinMarks http://indiewebcamp.com/squarespace says exports
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GWG KevinMarks, we have a page for everything on there it seems
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GWG I really have to remember to look before I ask
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@kevinmarks @katelosse owning your own domain is the first step. http://indiewebcamp.com/squarespace has some advice on setting up indie things (twitter.com/_/status/468440459648729088)
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GWG Note that the biggest section of the page is how to leave. That does send a message.
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@kevinmarks @katelosse are you still SF-based? Come along to Homebrew Website Club on Wednesday if so: http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (twitter.com/_/status/468440976231378944)
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aaronpk Maybe that's not the right way to phrase it
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aaronpk It's more about how to avoid lock in
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GWG aaronpk, I always think about how a newcomer might take it
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KevinMarks hm, looks like kate has some SSL problems
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aaronpk Feel free to edit! :-)
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GWG I don't use square space though.
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GWG But I will see if I can get a trial
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KevinMarks aaronpk used their superbowl ad
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barnabywalters squarespace is indieweb if you own your content and own your domain
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barnabywalters you can add rel-me links to make it work with indieauth
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GWG I would probably rewrite the page to say it csn be, but it might not have the flexibility or extensibility of other solutions
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KevinMarks wonder who we talk to there to get them to adopt more? They have the basic idea right, hence the ad
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GWG They have an API
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GWG http://blog.squarespace.com/blog/your-data-everywhere
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GWG Someone needs to go in there and have look
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GWG If they support JSON then it might not be so hard
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KevinMarks so you could mung http://www.katelosse.tv/?format=json-pretty into indieweb formats
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GWG They support the customizations
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GWG Someone has to work on it though
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KevinMarks their template language looks flexible enough to add the microformats markup needed
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KartikPrabhu Amazon the book silo does it again: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/10/technology/writers-feel-an-amazon-hachette-spat.html
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@t going to Homebrew Website Club, 2014-05-21 18:30 @MozSF. indieweb: http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-5 silo: https://www.facebook.com/events/1509367239285562/ (ttk.me t4W91) (twitter.com/_/status/468450178886684672)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+14) "/* URLs */ SF Indie event & FB POSSE copy" (view diff)
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bret barnabywalters: are you not looking for token endpoints for your note interface?
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notifix Superfeedr Track Feed for include=indieweb: <div xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">going to Homebrew Website Club, 2014-05-21 18:30 @MozSF. indieweb: werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-5 silo: fb.com/events/1509367239285562/</div>
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bret it doesnt look like an auth token is submitted
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bret with a new note creation request
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aaronpk bret: odd, pretty sure I remember it sending a token when I tried it
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bret hrrm
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bret do i need to look somewhere else besides the header?
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aaronpk It should be there.... But maybe inspect the whole request?
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aaronpk Just dump it somewhere and see what it's sending
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bret right now req.get('Authorization')
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bret from the header isnt getting anything
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aaronpk Does that really look for an http header?
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aaronpk "get" usually means query string
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aaronpk But I don't really know how to node
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bret it really gets an http header :p
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bret with the name 'Authorization'
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aaronpk Check post access_token?
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bret there is is!
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aaronpk aha!
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kylewm bret: you're looking at waterpigs.co.uk/notes/new? when does it send you the token request?
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bret after i log in an try to post a new note
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kylewm on notes/new, does the <form action=your site or /notes/?
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bret aaronpk: should I just look for both? or should it be Authorization
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bret huh?
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bret its going to post to my site!
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aaronpk does the browser post to your site or does his server?
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aaronpk i think the browser posts to your site directly, which means you'll have to check the POST request for access_token, as well as accept the Authorization header for other clients that do it that way
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kylewm that was my question ^. (i was trying to get it to work on my site, but didn't get as far as you have apparently!)
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bret oic
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aaronpk yep, there's a hidden form field that has the access token
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aaronpk i think barnaby actually sets a client-side cookie with the access token so it's never even sent to his server
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aaronpk well, that's not quite literally true, but you get the idea. his server doesn't actually do anything with the access token.
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bret thats cool!
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aaronpk yeah!
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aaronpk it's technically possible to store the access token in local storage so it never actualyl would leave your computer
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tantek benwerd - congrats on starting fulltime on Known!!!
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bret benwerd++
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Loqi benwerd has 19 karma
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aaronpk yeah!!
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aaronpk benwerd++
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Loqi benwerd has 20 karma
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aaronpk now we'll see you on IRC more I hope?
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tantek hopefully you can come by in person Wednesday evening and announce it there too and get everyone even more excited :) http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club#RSVP
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sparverius benwerd:
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sparverius benwerd++
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Loqi dude
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tantek benwerd, note also we're trying a one hour "quiet writing hour" at 17:30 immediately before the meetup! So if you want to show up early just to write, come on by!
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benwerd tantek: that sounds nice :)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: is Chicago on today?
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benwerd same place?
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tantek benwerd same place
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benwerd cool
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tantek I just reserved it earlier :)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: you mean this week?
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tantek benwerd, it was andicascadesf's idea
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tantek KartikPrabhu: yes
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benwerd it's a great idea
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benwerd marking it in my calendar
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KartikPrabhu tantek: nope. I also deleted it from the schedule
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tantek I made her commit to showing up for it before I put it in. [selfdogfood] :)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: that's what I thought - just double checking
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tantek this is how I tag lines of IRC without linking to a channel: [howto][meta][tag]
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tantek dietrich_: you coming by HWC tonight at ESRIPDX? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club#RSVP
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bret dang thats tonight?
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bret i cant come
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dietrich_ tantek: tonight?
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dietrich_ i thought weds...
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dietrich_ tantek: that url even says weds. you blew it. we all know you have a time machine now, and you're not sharing with us.
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4c4d.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+54) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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bret lol
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tantek er, sorry, not tonight - Wednesday night
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tantek resets datetime index to 2014-05-19
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bret i can prob come then
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dietrich_ weds, yep i'll be there
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tantek wonders when we'll see regular indie-event posts for the PDX meetup. hint hint aaronpk ;)
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dietrich_ rsvps
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tantek per http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club#URLs
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Loqi [mention] http://stream.withknown.com/2014/why-we-started-known-join-us-on-our-journey linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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dietrich_ tantek: what is writing hour? it's mentioned on the page but not explained
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bret sshhh time for writing prose/code?
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tantek digs up the summary that he wrote for writing hour somewhere.
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tantek.com created /Template:new (+106) "copy from uf wiki, color change" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+143) "/* What */ describe writing hour" (view diff)
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tantek dietrich_: how's this? http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club#What
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aaronpk Yeah, I need to make myself a better interface for posting events
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aaronpk It's kind of annoying right now to edit the dates in my yaml
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dietrich_ tantek: wooo, thanks!
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bret aaronpk: same! thats why I'm implementing micropub
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metafluff.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+63) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk: "kind of annoying right now to edit the dates in my yaml" <-- hah, you should see how annoying it is to edit in HTML with like 3 copies. (oh oops. :/ )
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tantek (on every post)
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tantek needs to improve his use of h-entry in static storage
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aaronpk Heh yeah I bet
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Loqi [mention] http://stream.withknown.com/2014/why-we-started-known-join-us-on-our-journey linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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tantek aaronpk, I actually added validation code to my storage reading code to do consistency checks on every new post
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tantek figure it was good to add defensive code, even if/when I simplified the format
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aaronpk Nice
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tantek it's a challenge of - which copy should be the *data* and which copy should be the optional generated "cache copy" of the data
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tantek which if absent is simply generated, but if present, is checked for consistency.
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aaronpk If it's generated then how could it ever be wrong?
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tantek I think it's better to detect and warn about errors in consistency rather than quietly repairing them
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tantek aaronpk, it could be wrong in storage
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tantek if it's explicitly specified
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tantek benwerd, hmm - somehow your indie event post is causing a link-preview image from your comments/interactions of the post! See: https://www.facebook.com/tantek.celik/posts/10101079886261073
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tantek benwerd, do you have a way in Known to specify a "banner image" for an indie event?
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tantek (as you specified for the FB POSSE copy ;) )
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benwerd tantek: no, but clearly one's needed! I also want that for blog posts etc etc
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tantek you could cheat and grab the first image from the description/contents and optionally "upgrade it" to be a "banner image"
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tantek would work well likely for mobile presentation for sure
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aaronpk that's what I do
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tantek then as an author all you have to remember is to drop in an image as part of the description
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aaronpk if none specified, first image becomes "banner" image
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tantek hmm - in that case, aaronpk, this is likely worth documenting
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tantek since you have a real world implementation
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tantek perhaps http://indiewebcamp.com/banner ?
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tantek or http://indiewebcamp.com/banner-image
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tantek your choice of canonical URL, since you've built it
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Loqi [mention] http://stream.withknown.com/2014/why-we-started-known-join-us-on-our-journey linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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ben_thatmustbeme By the way, had a few Google Now cards this weekend that may interest you guys
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ben_thatmustbeme http://benthatmustbeme.tumblr.com/post/86234828396/indie-web-mentioned-in-the-google-card-that-has
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ben_thatmustbeme first is that one from saturday, i started getting a Google card, (info about the company) and the only entry it had was a link to the wired article about indie-web
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ben_thatmustbeme and then there is this card from today
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ben_thatmustbeme http://benthatmustbeme.tumblr.com/post/86234863781/tantek-is-officially-invading-my-phone
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: too bad that Google Now indieweb card is not really "Now" and more like "over 6 months ago"
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ben_thatmustbeme that first one is
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tantek huh? the first one is just the title of the old Wired article
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tantek … jailbreak ...
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ben_thatmustbeme i mean the first one is old
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ben_thatmustbeme the old article
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ben_thatmustbeme the second link i posted is what i am starting to get more often
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tantek right this one: http://benthatmustbeme.tumblr.com/post/86234828396/indie-web-mentioned-in-the-google-card-that-has
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ben_thatmustbeme i have gotten only a few thus far
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tantek wait what - why are my RSVPs showing up as "Google Now" cards for you?
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tantek is Google Now consuming PuSH and creating cards for PuSH items?
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tantek (which would be smart)
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ben_thatmustbeme not sure. I have searched for indieweb and for you, so its picking up on one of those
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: and is it accident or intentional that your "tantek is" links to my PESETAS Tumblr rather than my site?
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ben_thatmustbeme if i hit their hamburger icon at the top, all it asks is for is "are you interested in updates from tantek.com"
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ben_thatmustbeme that was not intentional
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ben_thatmustbeme fixed that link
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ben_thatmustbeme to explain the first post, it was 2 images, that was the flow, the first one was a single card, the second image was what you get after you click that card. I just thought it was nice for publicity wise.
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KartikPrabhu do people store local versions of twitter avatars for replies?
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ben_thatmustbeme tantek: i'm guessing its using your atom feed and updating from that. I have not tried every site i get updates for but they all seem to have some time of alternate feed
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KartikPrabhu reason I ask. I don't but then the bridgy backfeed avatar urls break when someone changes their Twitter avatar as in here: http://kartikprabhu.com/notes/fink-indieweb
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: yeah, that's an unfortunate twitter wart. fb, g+, and i think instagram all have evergreen urls for profile pictures that always return or redirect to the current picture
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snarfed sad that twitter doesn't
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KartikPrabhu annoying!
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: seems like there is an API call for that, but no canonical fixed URL! reF: https://dev.twitter.com/docs/api/1/get/users/profile_image/%3Ascreen_name I'm sure you know this though
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ben_thatmustbeme i'm trying to repeatedly search for other indie sites to hopefully get you other guys in there
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: yup. you might be interested in this bridgy cron job that finds and updates changed profile picture urls: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/blob/master/cron.py#L41
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KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: what is this you are doing? Sorry I missed the context
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ben_thatmustbeme Google Now cards have started showing "Sites you visit"
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KartikPrabhu aah neat!
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ben_thatmustbeme http://benthatmustbeme.tumblr.com/post/86234863781/tantek-is-officially-invading-my-phone
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: the sad part is, that api call you mentioned is itself an evergreen profile picture url (it 302 redirects and doesn't require auth), but they explicitly forbid you to use it like that. sigh.
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: cool. But I'm not sure what bridgy can do about it. Send another webmention for updated profile pic?
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snarfed yeah, bridgy can't easily do anything for downstream webmention recipients. it could resend everything from that user, but that doesn't scale.
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: I think it does require authentication atleast it did when I tried to access it from my browser
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snarfed that api call is from the v1 api, which got turned off a while ago
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aaronpk can I get this google now thing on my iphone somehow?
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snarfed aaronpk: i think yes, they've either announced or shipped it
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: I think it comes with the Google Search app https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/google-search/id284815942?mt=8
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: I cache profile images locally, have not written the code to update them yet
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kylewm mostly because I didn't want outgoing requests to twitter/facebook for every load of my site
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KartikPrabhu cache should be good enough... I suppose
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KartikPrabhu kylewm: on a diff. note, what do you use to redirect from your short domian?
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: it's hacky but nginx redirects from kyl.im/\w+ to kylewm.com/short/\1, which my application redirects to the right place
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KartikPrabhu aah I see. Better than writing a separate code on the shorter domain...
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aaronpk that's basically how I do it too
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KartikPrabhu now if only I can get my shirt url code fixed I can start using my shiny new krtk.me :P
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KartikPrabhu s/shirt/short
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Loqi KartikPrabhu meant to say: now if only I can get my short url code fixed I can start using my shiny new krtk.me :P
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KartikPrabhu so much fail!
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kylewm i dig krtk.me
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aaronpk tantek: what was the convention you suggested for the "who is using X?" section on the wiki? "IndieWeb Examples"?
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: kylewm: what is the "bridgy POSSE without link" perspective on this: http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE##POSSE+copies+SHOULD+always+link+back
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kylewm KartikPrabhu: http://indiewebcamp.com/posse-post-discovery#Tradeoffs :)
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KartikPrabhu maybe add that as a link to the former?
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kylewm good idea
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snarfed you mean, add that link to the bridgy docs?
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snarfed to be fair, that idea is an opinion. maybe a commonly held one in the community, but still, just an opinion, not part of any spec or required for any core functionality
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snarfed many indieweb people don't include backlinks in all of their possed posts
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: yes. I was suggesting that we add a counter-opinion or link to it :)
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snarfed ahhh. sure!
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KartikPrabhu and since you guys have probably thought about this more than I have, I off-shored it to you ;)
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snarfed this is where the bridgy docs describe the rel-syndication support. feel free to use it! https://www.brid.gy/about#public
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KartikPrabhu neat! :)
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KartikPrabhu is looking for a short word to mean "here is the original" for POSSEing? any ideas?
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aaronpk "source"
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aaronparecki.com edited /short-domains (+503) "add notes on my implementation" (view diff)
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kylewm.com edited /POSSE (+414) "/* FAQ */ added q with link to posse-post-discovery#tradeoffs" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu temporarily used "from" for instance here: https://plus.google.com/+KartikPrabhu/posts/84FQ5WvLRvH
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KartikPrabhu oh G+ shows a "full profle card" and a "small profile card" on the post... how redundant
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aaronpk google now says "updates to websites you recently visited"
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aaronpk with bret's latest post and tantek's RSVP
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aaronpk as well as the latest xkcd
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KartikPrabhu how does it know the websites you visited? you do a Google search?
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aaronpk i also use chrome...
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KartikPrabhu aah yes that'd do it
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aaronpk wow
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kylewm yeah, it freaked me out when Google Now started telling me about my upcoming flights
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kylewm hey, that's convenient...and extremely creepy!
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aaronpk honestly that's less creepy to me
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aaronpk here's all the other things it'll do http://pastebin.com/VXm4XBqs
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KartikPrabhu oh xml!
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sparverius i mean it's just looking at your email which they already did before in gmail (like showing links to package tracking in the subject line)
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sparverius for whatever stupid reason, it doesnt work if you're on google apps tho
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tantek aaronpk, yes "IndieWeb Examples" for who is using x? or who supports x?
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tantek thought I put that on /Loqi
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/Loqi#who_uses_xyz :D
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Loqi is done
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aaronpk there's a page on Loqi now?
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aaronpk wow missed that
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tantek must have been in "this week in indieweb" right? ;)
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bret.io edited /Loqi (+47) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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bret Loqi: What's your deal?
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bret nope
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JonathanNeal Is it bad that I have Loqi on ignore? Am I missing out on real content?
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aaronpk mostly wiki updates, but now there's a new thing
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aaronparecki.com edited /Loqi (+112) "more links about Loqi" (view diff)
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tommorris congratulates aaronpk for living in an enlightened state: http://tommorris.org/posts/8951 :)
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aaronpk ohh...that kind of "state"
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tommorris must visit the PDX at some point.
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aaronpk indeed
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bret tommorris: come to IWC!
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aaronpk do it!
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tommorris I wonder if Virgin Atlantic do direct LHR to PDX
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aaronpk if not there's at least a delta flight I believe
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bret http://www.katu.com/news/local/Travelers-soon-to-be-greeted-by-new-carpet-at-PDXs-airport-233546621.html
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tommorris I need to crank through a lot more states. I’ve so far only been to MA, NY, NJ, CA, FL, VA and DC.
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tallpaul tommorris: Sadly no, they (& BA) fly to SEA though and its a short hop.
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aaronpk it's 45 minutes from seattle to pdx
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tommorris.org created /2014/UK (+4727) "setting up wiki page for UK 2014" (view diff)
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tommorris ^ so that’s a thing now
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aaronpk !!!
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tommorris.org created /2014/UK/Guest_List (+4789) "creating" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (+36) "/* URLs */ add PDX URLs" (view diff)
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@aaronpk Homebrew Website Club this week, beginning with a quiet "writing hour" at 5:30pm! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club #indieweb (http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/05/19/2/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/468511348909805568)
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/05/19/2/indieweb linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/rsvp/facebook/11500459/245556792313620/11500459 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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notifix Superfeedr Track Feed for include=indieweb: Homebrew Website Club this week, beginning with a quiet "writing hour" at 5:30pm! indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club #indieweb
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aaronpk can I just say those messages are pretty ugly
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (-17) "/* Creators */ Attendee template" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /2014/UK/Guest_List (+261) "/* Creators */ RSVPd" (view diff)
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Loqi erinjo: tantek left you a message on 5/9 at 5:45pm: great job this week with the projects you've launched! your efforts have really leveled up the #indieweb and #ownyourdata momentum.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/aaronpk/468511348909805568/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: what happened here in the second one? https://www.brid.gy/googleplus/117114060857732496623# It says that it didn't find a webmention endpoint
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GWG Hello, KartikPrabhu
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GWG I was talking about you earlier
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KartikPrabhu hi! waah wait where?
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GWG I referenced your article on no comments
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KartikPrabhu aah I see :)
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GWG I'm thinking of making that the end game of my current project
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: interesting. the log says it used the cached result that there was no endpoint. some earlier discovery must have failed
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snarfed and i try to only cache that result when it does manage to fetch html, so i'm not sure
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KartikPrabhu also why is there no "retry" option? did you disable those?
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snarfed they only show up while bridgy itself is still retrying
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snarfed (for 3 days)
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KartikPrabhu GWG: reading the logs now about "no comments"
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: I see. Didn't realise that
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snarfed sorry for the missed mention. feel free to resend it manually! source and target in the log
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KartikPrabhu aah cool np! :) But will bridgy then have an ednpoint next time?
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GWG snarfed: Did I read the Facebook problem isn't one anymore?
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: yeah. cache ttl is at most 1d, usually much less
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KartikPrabhu ok cool!
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snarfed GWG: we at least think we found the root cause. i'll try to confirm and fix it tonight
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GWG snarfed: If so, then I may dump SNAP
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snarfed GWG: great!
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: yeah you can see more recent twitter mentions that were sent. https://www.brid.gy/twitter/kartik_prabhu
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: oh yeah... some how I didn't realise how long ago 1 week was ;)
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GWG snarfed: And I may write that basic Bridgy plugin that adds checkboxes for the services and adds the endpoints in using Wordpress content hooks
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KartikPrabhu GWG: about "why do I need an email to comment on your site?" I would say "because it is my site and I said so..." On my site I can set whatever arbitrary rules I want. If people don't like it, they are free to complain on their own place on the Web
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GWG KartikPrabhu: It was a comment. But the truth is...why do they? I don't need it. It is to 'keep them honest' so to speak
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KartikPrabhu yeah. which IMO is a legitimate reason
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KevinMarks historically ti was to send them updates for replies
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GWG KartikPrabhu: Also why people do login with ____ service
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KartikPrabhu GWG: also see https://plus.google.com/+KartikPrabhu/posts/UzKErSbfmHq which I posted way before discovering indieweb
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KevinMarks this is why we had OpenID in the first place - so you don't need email.
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@EASTKnowledge RT @aaronpk: Homebrew Website Club this week, beginning with a quiet "writing hour" at 5:30pm! http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club #indieweb (http://t.c… (twitter.com/_/status/468539777080623104)
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: yes. but that is still some kind of "effort barrier"
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tantek_ KartikPrabhu: perhaps repost https://plus.google.com/+KartikPrabhu/posts/UzKErSbfmHq to your own blog, backdated, and with a rel=syndication link to the G+ post?
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks: also thanks for the BOM clarification
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GWG KevinMarks: I know you've worked on this a long while.
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KartikPrabhu tantek: Yes on my things-to-do. Have many G+ and tweet things to repost
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GWG I am just on the fence.
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KevinMarks the classic comment box had name, url, email
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KevinMarks and comment
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KartikPrabhu GWG: no need to justify. In my experience the best questions come from the "on the fence" people
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/aaronpk/468511348909805568/468539777080623104 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-21-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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KevinMarks url to link back to your own blog, email to get updates
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KevinMarks OpenID was to prevent spoofing of the URL
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pdurbin KevinMarks: are you saying OpenID was invented for comments?
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GWG KartikPrabhu: People who are 100% certain of things...
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KartikPrabhu :)
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KartikPrabhu also don't mistake people with strong reasons with "people 100% certain of things" :)
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tantek_ pdurbin - yes, original use-case for OpenID was blog-to-blog comments
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tantek_ sorry, specifically, *logging-in* to write a comment
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tantek_ not blog-to-blog comments as we do them now with webmention + h-entry
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pdurbin tantek_: sure. I get you. thanks
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tantek_ but the comments you'd write would still be "local-only" on the destination blog
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GWG But, I don't want to have a barrier between myself and others for communications.
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tantek_ GWG - well you do, for spammers ;)
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KevinMarks original OpenID annoucnement: http://lj-dev.livejournal.com/683939.html
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GWG tantek_: Well, I get spammers and likes on Facebook
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GWG Not sure if a like is worth anything