#indiewebcamp 2014-05-05
2014-05-05 UTC
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aaronparecki.com created /simple-indieauth-example (+1902) "draft simple indieauth (relmeauth) example" (view diff)
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bret aaronpk: have you documented anywhere what the endpoint should do with the token in the header? in this case the token is coming from https://tokens.oauth.net/token
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@matthewfellows Bam! Phase 1 #indieweb complete - Twitter & LinkedIn now powered by WordPress via: http://www.onegeek.com.au/blog/570?utm_campaign=&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter (twitter.com/_/status/463116065317220352)
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@walterwkatz Note to self: your next blog (coming soon;) has to be on your own server. #ownyourdata (twitter.com/_/status/463149854974173184)
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@DamonOehlman @johnallsopp You thinking about running an @indiewebcamp in SYD? I reckon I'd be up for it... +@t (twitter.com/_/status/463154423288430592)
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@johnallsopp @damonoehlman @indiewebcamp @t be very keen to help make it happen (twitter.com/_/status/463154820979752960)
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@MelissaKaulfuss @johnallsopp @damonoehlman @indiewebcamp @t I can help organise stuff, I’m very keen to see this happen. (twitter.com/_/status/463155083538997248)
# @DamonOehlman @MelissaKaulfuss @johnallsopp @indiewebcamp @t Cool - I might try and rope in @Abrahadabra_ as I reckon he'd be keen too... (twitter.com/_/status/463157134515920896)
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@sentience @DamonOehlman @johnallsopp @indiewebcamp @t I’m interested! (twitter.com/_/status/463158048819642369)
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# @DamonOehlman Really impressed with indieauth: https://indieauth.com/ It's simple, effective and a catalyst for changing (my) behaviour... (twitter.com/_/status/463159971710906369)
# @sentience @DamonOehlman I’m gradually working through http://indiewebify.me with my personal site. +@indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/463160381049819136)
# @matthewfellows @sentience @DamonOehlman @indiewebcamp Oh, this is awesome! @VaughanHaysom this is what I was talking about (twitter.com/_/status/463161865925705728)
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kyank As you can see from the Twitter stream, it’s Monday in Australia and tantek’s talk is making waves. :)
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@Abrahadabra_ @DamonOehlman @MelissaKaulfuss @johnallsopp @indiewebcamp @t What's the idea in 140 chars? :) (twitter.com/_/status/463182100183527424)
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# @MelissaKaulfuss @Abrahadabra_ @DamonOehlman @johnallsopp @indiewebcamp @t we take back control of our content in 1 fell swoop! check http://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/463182882450575361)
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tantek whoa awesome - sounds like critical mass for an IndieWebCamp Australia! https://twitter.com/DamonOehlman/status/463154423288430592 (read thread)
# @DamonOehlman @johnallsopp You thinking about running an @indiewebcamp in SYD? I reckon I'd be up for it... +@t (twitter.com/_/status/463154423288430592)
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@NateSavery 'indieweb'? not a fan of the name but to be fair I could say that about other names for awesome things, ahem, #VRM http://kartikprabhu.com/article/indieweb-love-blog (twitter.com/_/status/463183857362423808)
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# indie-visitor MatthewSchutte
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kylewm.com edited /webmention (+616) "/* Brainstorming */ added section about rel-webmention on <a> tags" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu hi indievisitor/MatthewSchutte
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# @Abrahadabra_ @MelissaKaulfuss @DamonOehlman @johnallsopp @indiewebcamp @t no worries. sounds like a plan :) (twitter.com/_/status/463194231679369217)
# indie-visitor hi KartikPrabhu. Thanks for the welcome. It's long overdue, but I'm just now checking out IWC. Probably going to lurk for a bit and read through the logs.
# KartikPrabhu hi! i thought you re-logged in as matthewschutte :)
# matthewschutte I’m just setting up IRC clients etc. I’ve dipped a toe in the water once or twice before, but am fairly illiterate when it comes to IRC channels and web development in general. Kind of silly really, considering that my life’s work is focused on helping foster a more user centric (and collaborative) internet.
# matthewschutte Am logged into two clients at the moment to give them each a feel.
# KartikPrabhu matthewschutte: In any case, welcome... and explore around, getting later here must hit the sack as they say
# matthewschutte g’night. Thanks for the welcome.
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voxpelli !tell aaronpk I don't think we need to have sites specify prefered auth servers like IndieAuth – I think we rather need a way for identities in a rel-me consolidated identity to indicate that they have an authentication mechanism that we can use so that eg. indie-hosted auth mechanisms and such can be discovered
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KevinMarks is reading history
# KevinMarks !tell aaronpk I'll be at IIW too
# KevinMarks If people are talking about NASCAR login, can we login with Dogecoin? http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/shake-and-bake/to-the-moon-josh-wise-talks-to-race-hub-about-his-dogecoin-sponsorship-in-talladega-043014
# KevinMarks we could use a variant of this protocol: http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/Bitcoin_address_authentication
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@jamesjamesm @matthewfellows @VaughanHaysom #indieweb time! (twitter.com/_/status/463279490353754113)
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# @DamonOehlman Plan was to rebuild personal site and integrate indieauth, but distracted writing a pull-keys + taskify integration: https://github.com/DamonOehlman/pull-keys#example-usage (twitter.com/_/status/463292467031183360)
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@adam_baldwin @mikewest @wraithgar is doing cool indieweb stuff here with docker. For the blog he’s using bumble http:///package/bumble (twitter.com/_/status/463317536000319489)
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning all
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Loqi aaronpk: voxpelli left you a message 6 hours, 30 minutes ago: I don't think we need to have sites specify prefered auth servers like IndieAuth – I think we rather need a way for identities in a rel-me consolidated identity to indicate that they have an authentication mechanism that we can use so that eg. indie-hosted auth mechanisms and such can be discovered
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@keyoda RT @NateSavery: 'indieweb'? not a fan of the name but to be fair I could say that about other names for awesome things, ahem, #VRM http://t… (twitter.com/_/status/463333340503101441)
# brainTrain mornin'
# brainTrain I'm so close to getting an indie webz box up
# brainTrain was gonna be workin on ssl, but I forgot I need an email address to validate my domain, so I guess sendmail haha
# brainTrain snarfed, I notice you use google app engine for bridgy, that was my first dev/prod environment about three years ago when I started this crazy web dev journey and I learned to hate it due to how often it crashed haha, but dug the concept. Have you found it's improved over the years or do you still have to work around it?
# brainTrain yeah it's not bad, I'm a frontend person by trade, but frontend at the startup I work at also includes building basic api's for user management stuff etc, so I don't really mind learning all this opsy sysadmin stuff, it's starting to give me ultimate power! :p
# brainTrain that's good to know. friends hit me up to learn often and app engine could be a really awesome way to do that if you don't have to do too much to handle it's crashes/rough edges
# brainTrain but I knew it was new when I started using it, but so was I haha so I got pretty frustrated :p
# brainTrain ah yeah that too. I need to learn some automation tools like fabric or rundeck or puppet/chef.. but probably some combo thereof
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# www.sandeep.io edited /email (+127) "/* Mandrill */ Noted that inbound emails are free." (view diff)
# brainTrain but I got my buddy andy set up with his own regular static site box last thursday, and taught him some basics of ssh and vim
# brainTrain and that wasn't so bad, although all that shit is a lot to learn so I'm sure the next time we meet up to work on that he's probably gonna still be lost
# brainTrain yeah he's been learning a ton
# brainTrain but through code academy
# brainTrain like he stubbed out his own responsive frontend for his record label
# brainTrain and my homework assignment for him was to try and make that html/css render on his shiny new ip address
# brainTrain I remember learning all that stuff was pretty overwhelming at first but given enough time and help from peeps I got pretty comfortable
# brainTrain haha exactly.
# brainTrain yeah fabric seems pretty rad, at work we've started using runserver and I think those can overlap but don't necessarily have to... buuut this is all conjecture based on not knowing much about automation
# brainTrain lol not runserver, rundeck.. too much django
# brainTrain haha rad, yeah that's the cool thing about this industry. There's so much I don't know and that's really never gonna change
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# brainTrain hey, I just skimmed the site but this seems like a worthy thing to join: https://www.resetthenet.org/
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# dariusdunlap At IIW “Personal Cloud and VRM” day, Computer History Museum, Mountain View, CA
# dariusdunlap This is sort of a “pre-IIW” day. The real conf starts tomorrow.
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tantek.com edited /events/2014-05-07-homebrew-website-club (+192) "meetup sounds more informal and welcoming than "meeting" which sounds more work-like, RSVP, add notes link" (view diff)
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# Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-4 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-07-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
# Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-4 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-05-07-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
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# tantek.com edited /events/2014-05-07-homebrew-website-club (+14) "/* URLs */ add SF URLs" (view diff)
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@t going to Homebrew Website Club, 2014-05-07 18:30 @MozSF. indieweb: http://werd.io/2014/homebrew-website-club-4 silo: https://www.facebook.com/events/1430990723825351/ (ttk.me t4Vv1) (twitter.com/_/status/463359453799387137)
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# brainTrain bah, work time. I got sendmail sending but not receiving. Last time I installed this sucker was about a year ago, but these pain points are starting to feel familiar haha
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# dariusdunlap Conversation here at Pre-IIW Personal Cloud / VRM day is so cool. I wish Kevin Marks was here taking notes. :-)
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# tantek dariusdunlap - open up a new etherpad like https://etherpad.mozilla.org/iiw and just start taking notes!
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# KevinMarks sorry I'm not there dariusdunlap
# KevinMarks I din't know it was on today too
# KevinMarks noterlive is currently in exile at http://peaceful-headland-3727.herokuapp.com/ as I broke the build
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# snarfed re CLIs, good (short) book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18937.In_the_Beginning_Was_the_Command_Line
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# tlehman Anyone familiar with the covert redirect vulnerability found in OpenID?
# tlehman was it yesterday?
# tlehman oh, the 2nd of May, found it
# tlehman @benwerd okay, it sounded like it was just a flaw with the user, but I wasn't sure, since I only heard a blurb about it last night
# tlehman phisher's be phishing
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@pingidentity RT @windley: Join us for IIW XVIII starting Tuesday https://www.eventbrite.com/e/internet-identity-workshop-xviii-18-2014a-tickets-10266396067 #identity #vrm #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/463401390958997504)
# KevinMarks I found that copying in the browser and pasting into medium worked fairly well
# KartikPrabhu +1 :)
# KartikPrabhu that is why still hand-write articles
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@etorreborre RT @DamonOehlman: Plan was to rebuild personal site and integrate indieauth, but distracted writing a pull-keys + taskify integration: http… (twitter.com/_/status/463417642187890688)
# ben_thatmustbeme i need to figure out what to work on next on my personal site
# ben_thatmustbeme any suggestions?
# brainTrain what's on the table?
# KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieMark is a good list to work on
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# ben_thatmustbeme kartikprabhu, the next step there would be POSSE, which I sort of wanted to wait until I have a nice UI before I start doing that. But alas, i suck at front-end
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# ben_thatmustbeme bret, not yet. I'll have to look in to that, reading the wiki page now
# ben_thatmustbeme just displaying, I don't really like the theme I have, its kinda of a messed up sempress currently
# ben_thatmustbeme the admin UI is only half finished too. but I'm in no rush to do that honestly, it works for me for now
# ben_thatmustbeme just so much to do and so little time
# KartikPrabhu ben_thatmustbeme: in my experience it is better to have something crappy working and then iterate on it, than to wait to have the perfect implementation the first time
# ben_thatmustbeme yeah, I know, And i'm doing that with the rest of the site, I just wanted to have a first pass to clean it up first before I started sharing it out too much
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# ben_thatmustbeme yeah bret, at this point I just sort of want to steal a nice template and start there, mess around with it more later.
# ben_thatmustbeme bret, so to set up micropub i would need to be an indieauth endpoint?
# ben_thatmustbeme getting a little confused by it
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# ben_thatmustbeme yeah, i think i may have to toss the idea of having notes and posts in different columns, its just getting too crowded
# gRegor` single-column-layout++
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aaronpk this page has an example http://indiewebcamp.com/auth-brainstorming#Micropub_Endpoint
# ben_thatmustbeme I never even got an e-mail: just tried to log in. "This journal has been deleted and purged."
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# ben_thatmustbeme glad I had that all backed up from some time ago
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@eay @1337core Dann sieh dir mal die Entwicklungen des IndieWeb an (falls unbekannt), die machen das quasi auch: http://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/463423364590481408)
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# KevinMarks hm, how come facebook doesn't markup theire own webpages with applinks.org?
# KevinMarks that would be handy for tanteks contact links
# ben_thatmustbeme okay. i'm just trying to understand the conceptual now of how it generates the auth token
# ben_thatmustbeme from the in some app i allow it to access my account on some token generator, is that the idea?
# ben_thatmustbeme haha, okay, let me try that again. Basically the idea, as I understand it. I have app A on my phone for example. I want to post to my personal site. I log in to the endpoint of my site (found by parsing my site) (with indieauth?) it generates a token that I can send along with my post. my site can then verify that token by going to the endpoint site.
# bret aaronpk: you want it on: http://indiewebcamp.com/auth-brainstorming#Micropub_Endpoint ?
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bret.io edited /auth-brainstorming (+267) "/* Micropub Endpoint */ Added a tldr description of a micropub endpoint." (view diff)
# ben_thatmustbeme i don't publish my endpoint though, I just display the micropub link so an app knows where to go to generate the auth key, Its up to user input to know to post to /post/new ?
# ben_thatmustbeme okay, thats what is confusing me
# ben_thatmustbeme okay
# ben_thatmustbeme i get ya, so it the app would get a token from auth, send it to micropub, and then my site would verify by token
# ben_thatmustbeme okay
# ben_thatmustbeme i understand it
# ben_thatmustbeme i'll try setting that up tomorrow if I have time
# ben_thatmustbeme sounds like a nice thing to work on
# ben_thatmustbeme i'm out for today though
# ben_thatmustbeme goodnight all
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# KevinMarks sounds like YAML
# KevinMarks which metastatized so much it took down rubygems
# KevinMarks I still like the XOXO idea but I haven't exactly maintained that code
# KevinMarks MS Word seems to be the way that many people like to write rich text
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gregorlove.com created /markdown (+319) "Beginning of page using wikipedia's description" (view diff)
# gRegor` Have at it
# gRegor` :)
# KevinMarks for the web they use the emoji keyboard on their phones and post to facebook
# 
kylewm http://www.sandeep.io/44 – if anyone else’s interested. “I’m liking syndicating markdown to avoid losing context”
# aaronpk KevinMarks: you mean like this? http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/04/30/1/
# KevinMarks tantek: in effect facebook does that
# KevinMarks you start typing their name and it pops them up and hotlinks them
# KevinMarks they used to auto-complete smileys into emoji
# gRegor` word, kylewm. I mean, word, I don't like Word. ;)
# KevinMarks what would you autocomplete an emoji from?
# KevinMarks hm. they have a face-picker in messenger, for recent users.
# KevinMarks XOXO was a JSON-like syntax in html: http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo
# KevinMarks with some extra magic values for links
# KevinMarks magic comes down to namespace use
# KevinMarks heh
# KevinMarks u-url is marginally less magic than url
# KevinMarks well, 'url' in XOXO is formally specified
# KevinMarks still magic, just more generative
# KevinMarks url in xoxo maybe should have been href
# KevinMarks give all the other params are the actual HTML ones
# KevinMarks I used to to pass data structures around at Technorati for a few years, so I was self-dogfooding to some extent
# gRegor` I'm thinking of setting up stub templates similar to Wikipedia, so stubs are put in categories and might be more useful. So many pages are "stubs" it doesn't seem to mean much. Thoughts? http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:stub
# gregorlove.com created /Template:Asbox (+2482) "Meta template for article stub boxes, from wikipedia" (view diff)
# gRegor` Templates, even?
# tantek.com deleted /Template:Asbox "can't just copy from WP"
# gRegor` Hmm
# gRegor` It's not clear to me. Footer says "Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License
# gRegor` additional terms may apply."
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# gRegor` But that's not clear to me if the (largely HTML) generated by templates applies.
# gRegor` It's not clear to me when it says "Text is available under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License" that it extends to the HTML in a template. Better safe than sorry, though.
# gRegor` I understand. I'm not looking for loopholes. I just wasn't sure.
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# gRegor` I wasn't sure till you pointed it out. ;) I thought it was fine.
# KartikPrabhu speaking of stubs /me should add to /facepile
# KartikPrabhu oh no that is a IRC wrongness... /me as in
# KartikPrabhu yeah what aaronpk said :)
# gRegor` irc/me v iwc/me, haha
# gRegor` OMS? Oh my stars?
# KartikPrabhu science!
# 
rascul oh i just discovered this, it's similar to what i've been thinking for long time http://indiewebcamp.com/databases-antipattern
# gRegor` I didn't necessarily want more stub templates. But perhaps adding a category to them to help gauge their progress.
# gRegor` Since it's so often not removed, it's pretty meaningless other than to encourage people to edit the wiki.
# KartikPrabhu gRegor`: I think the worry is that we don't really have a criteria for stub progress
# gRegor` Page size could be a basic starting point.
# gRegor` Just thinking out loud. I realize it's fuzzy
# gRegor` Haha
# KartikPrabhu oh man! stubception!
# gRegor` ./webmention probably isn't a stub anymore. :)
# aaronpk speaking of licensing, here is an example of something on wikipedia that is explicitly released into the public domain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GRAVIMETRIC_DATUM_ORIENTATION.SVG
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# gRegor` Ok, not "meaningless." But if it effectively appears on the entire site, might as well just put something in the sidebar "These pages are incomplete. Please help us by contributing."
# tantek.com edited /markdown (+13) "/* Dialects */ presumably the original Markdown means basic Gruber" (view diff)
# gregorlove.com edited /webmention (-3) "/* IndieWeb implementations */ Update link to my implementation notes" (view diff)
# gRegor` I'm with adactio on that, and prefer graying out the path / subdomain method.
# tantek adactio is spot on. hilarious. http://adactio.com/journal/6779/
# tantek KevinMarks: please add all that stuff about applinks breaking FB, Twitter, Medium etc. to here: http://indiewebcamp.com/App_Links
# gRegor` groans
# gRegor` :)
# gRegor` tantek: Can you confirm whether you can still log in to myopenid.com? Should I move it to "past" regardless?
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# KevinMarks I'll add the applinks stuff
# gRegor` "Only Mostly Dead" section. ;)
# KevinMarks I feel a post on "silos attacking URLs" coming on
# gRegor` a la Princess Bride, heh
# gRegor` Do it, KevinMarks!
# KevinMarks Nailed To The Perch
# gRegor` Oh, I was thinking of Princess Bride "He's only mostly dead."
# KevinMarks facebook with applinks, twitter with urls in DMs and Chrome with their chip
# KevinMarks 3 is a trend
# gRegor` But there is "Bring out your dead!" in MP, of course.
# KevinMarks and the Dead parrot
# KevinMarks and death at the dinner in MoL
# KevinMarks did you see the fox piece about Occulus? that was funny
# gRegor` adactio's "URLy warning" was pretty great.
# KevinMarks hm
# KevinMarks talking of slios co-opting URLs
# tantek KevinMarks: "Sorry, there was a problem with this link: http://www…." Wat?
# tantek KevinMarks: perhaps take a screenshot of that on desktop and add to: http://indiewebcamp.com/facebook#Hyperlink_Fear_Interstitial
# KevinMarks I am also tempted to rewrite that changing "facebook" to fox and zuck to murdoch
# gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+122) "/* Upcoming */ +Archive team on mlkshk.com" (view diff)
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# gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (+245) "/* 2014 */ Moved Donna from upcoming to past. Changed date to match what Donna site shows currently." (view diff)
# KevinMarks tantek: see also this thread on applinks https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/462482334604726272
# 
@kevinmarks @ilyasu @pmarca @BenedictEvans your "trapped in a browser" rhetoric is backwards. It's a Web view in an app you get trapped in on iOS (twitter.com/_/status/462482334604726272)
# tantek kylewm - what is going on here? http://kylewm.wordpress.com/2013/12/02/relocated/
# gRegor` That's awesome
# snarfed but you can try it out now if you want: http://brid.gy/
# gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (-396) "/* Upcoming */ moved myOpenId to "Any Day Now" section." (view diff)
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# KartikPrabhu oh so bridgy can now process webmentions -> wordpress comments, nice
# KartikPrabhu can now switch back to blogger! jk jk! ;)
# kylewm btw, I followed suit on aaronpk’s human-friendly webmention endpoint http://kylewm.com/webmention
# gRegor` Ooh, nice
# gRegor` kylewm++
# KevinMarks can I embed youtube on the wiki, or should I just link?
# KevinMarks should we have a satellite HWC in Mountain View for IIW?
# tantek KevinMarks: FYI: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/iiw
# gregorlove.com edited /site-deaths (-149) "/* 2014 */ merging duplicate Editorially listing with one in upcoming." (view diff)
# tantek snarfed, e.g. http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#endpoint_discovery
# gRegor` ./site-deaths is depressing
# gRegor` But it's a bit more up to date at least.
# KartikPrabhu hmm should add <a> parsing for endpoints to ronkyuu
# gRegor` uses PHP's DomDocument to search <link> elements only (if failing to find the Link header)
# tantek kylewm - add your visible webmention page and linking to it to this: http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#rel-webmention_on_.3Ca.3E_tags
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# tantek e.g. on the /Blogger /Tumblr /Wordpress pages on the wiki?
# tantek I wrote this up: http://indiewebcamp.com/Tumblr#Add_microformats_support
# tantek hoping others can do the same for /Blogger and /Wordpress.com
# KevinMarks what are HTML5 features that Firefox+Chrome support that Safari doesn't? WebRTC?
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# KevinMarks there we go, decent-length critique of applinks
# KevinMarks After I complained about about.me, the owner emailed me. Should I put the comments about them on the wiki too?
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# @kevinmarks Write-up of some of the issues with WebLinks from an #indeiweb perspective: http://indiewebcamp.com/App_Links @ilyasu @finkd (twitter.com/_/status/463467777345327104)
# KevinMarks gah