#indiewebcamp 2014-04-18

2014-04-18 UTC
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dracos KevinMarks_: works across paragraphs now (collapsing whitespace) - http://leveson.sayit.mysociety.org/hearing-13-march-2012/mr-richard-fedorcio?123##actually.+We+can
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KevinMarks_ nice! that seems more natural
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gregorlove.com edited /User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox (+340) "/* Navbox experiments */" (view diff)
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kevinmarks.com edited /fragmention (+187) "/* indieweb implementations */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ dracos: have you had much upload action for sayit?
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KevinMarks_ I was thinking about possibly munging my noterlive transcripts into your format
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dracos KevinMarks_: a few bits of interest, though nothing major (here’s one Chile Senate: http://senado-de-chile.sayit.mysociety.org/regulacion-de-lobby-ante-organos-de-administracion ). I’m hoping someone might want to do Hillsborough: https://github.com/mysociety/sayit/issues/196 .
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KevinMarks_ dracos: I generate a lot of pseudo-transcripts like http://www.kevinmarks.com/fixpatents2014-03-18.html or http://www.kevinmarks.com/fixpatents2014-03-18.txt
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JonathanNeal dracos: why did you switch from href to has?
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JonathanNeal s/has/hash
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Loqi JonathanNeal meant to say: dracos: why did you switch from href to hash?
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KevinMarks_ could potentially mung those into sayit format too
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dracos JonathanNeal: As you’re wanting to check the fragment, it seemed to make sense to only look at that variable, to preclude the possibility of # appearing elsewhere (though I’m sure that shouldn’t happen)
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JonathanNeal KevinMarks_: I used the organization because it doesn’t make a difference when it’s CC0, but I want chapmanu to start being a hub for these ideas with my new friends.
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gregorlove.com created /Template:Navbox (+378) "Created page with "<includeonly><div style="padding: 2px 2px 0 2px" (view diff)
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Loqi border: 1px solid #aaa
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Loqi background-color: #fff;"> <table border="0" cellspacing="0" style="width: 100%
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Loqi font-size: 11px;"> <tr>..."
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JonathanNeal that shouldn’t happen, because other browsers misinterpret .hash
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JonathanNeal .hash is sanitized, which is why I had to use .href, sorry to have not added that to the polyfill documentation.
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dracos JonathanNeal: in what way?
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dracos JonathanNeal: I meant, in what way and which browsers misinterpret/sanitise?
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu reported that ##webmention+%2B+pingback did not work in FF, because Firefox pre-decoded the text, which prevents us from using + as a space (see the decodeURIComponent piece) . If we read the href raw, we’re good.
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KevinMarks_ anyone want to help me spread this to the ircless masses? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7607279
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JonathanNeal FF’s location.hash reports “+%2B+” as “+++”.
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JonathanNeal dracos: would you update your pull request to switch back to href and drop the ^?
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JonathanNeal Or file a new one.
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dracos JonathanNeal: updated
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JonathanNeal merged and thank you
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dracos JonathanNeal: Would you like me to pull request my two remaining things so they can be discussed? I don’t think they’re as obvious as my previous ones :)
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JonathanNeal dracos: if I push fragmentions to window.location.fragmention, then I can check for 'fragmention' in window.location.fragmention before loading the script, to avoid future collisions if fragmentions become a thing.
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JonathanNeal Or if the Chrome extension is already loaded.
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KevinMarks_ is that normal for new browser features?
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JonathanNeal KevinMarks_: like location.hash being a filtered version of what is seen in location.href’s #, location.fragmention would be a filtered version of what is seen in location.href’s ##.
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JonathanNeal dracos: i can take pull requests all evening as you like, i’ll be working :) i look forward to them
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dracos JonathanNeal: Made them, but these ones are probably ones people might have Opinions on ;) Ah, it’s slightly later here, I should get to bed!
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gRegor` Sorry for all the wiki messages :)
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GWG No problem
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GWG How are things, gRegor`
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gRegor` Good, you?
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GWG Trying to figure out responsive CSS design
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GWG Layout was always a weak point
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gRegor` Ooh, there's a fun rabbit hole :)
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gRegor` Bootstrap is a decent starting point, if you don't want to get into too much of the nitty gritty.
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GWG gRegor`: I played with it.
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GWG gRegor`: Not a fan of columns
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GWG Too complex for what I wan
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GWG Reproducing 2014 as a 'blog' style.
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caseorganic hello everyone! i'm giving a talk on indieweb at passionprojects in sf at 7p
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caseorganic it's at medium hq :)
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caseorganic what i'll be doing is showing webmention, brid.gy, POSSE
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caseorganic so that people understand the concepts before i got into the background
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KevinMarks_ GWG if you just add <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0">
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KevinMarks_ then your HTML site won't start zoomed out
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gRegor` Awesome, caseorganic!
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caseorganic around 7 or 7:15 pm KevinMarks_ will be posting a link to the channel that you can webmention and i can show it on the screen!
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caseorganic gRegor`: thanks! it should be fun
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GWG KevinMarks, the issue is trying to figure out where the sidebar goes on a mobile vs desktop
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caseorganic i find that showing first and then giving a preso helps people to understand why indieweb is helpful
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gRegor` Is it being recorded?
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KevinMarks_ then you can just lay it out in a non-columnar way
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KevinMarks_ well, it's also tall vs wide on mobile/tablet
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KartikPrabhu anyone know of a python representative h-card implementation?
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KevinMarks_ I'm the extreme fugly layout end of that with kevinmarks.com
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gRegor` GWG: I usually have the sidebar either not displayed at all on mobile, or have it stack underneath the content.
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KevinMarks_ underneath makes sense, but in landscape mode you might want it there
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@caseorganic About to head over to @medium with @kevinmarks to give Passion Project talk on the #indieweb. See all of you soon! (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/04/17/3/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/456963406994493440)
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gRegor` Typically my content area and sidebar will be in that order in the HTML, using display: inline-block. Then at mobile dimensions, just change it to display: block
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gRegor` Eh, maybe. Generally I prefer simplicity. If there's sidebar content that's really that relevant, I would try to re-arrange it out of the sidebar. Just my 2 cents though. :)
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GWG gRegor`: I'm basing a simple layout on Wordpress TwentyFourteen. Which means there is a top bar and a side bar. Based on how I overloaded twentyfourteen, the top will be icon based, the side will be menu/widget based. But twentyfourteen doesn't render that correctly.
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KevinMarks_ http://shakespeare.sayit.mysociety.org/othello/act-iii/scene-iv-before-the-castle##magic+in+the+web
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KevinMarks_ gratuitious out of context shakespeare links
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tantek wow lots of wiki edits!
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gRegor` :) Yep. Have a look at the bottom of an HWC event page now
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tantek gRegor`: sweet!
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@kevinmarks Here for @caseorganic's Passion Projects #indieweb talk (at @Medium w/ @caseorganic) http:///login?continue=%2Fkevinmarks%2Fcheckin%2F53508274498e3157a6f46e4b (twitter.com/_/status/456970386862002177)
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tantek KevinMarks - how's the crowd at Passion Projects?
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KevinMarks Around 150-200
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KevinMarks Amber has a slide about medium's ToS that she is now checking
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tantek nice
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tantek isn't this *AT* Medium HQ?
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tantek and she's about to slam them right?
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tantek KevinMarks: be sure to remind Amber to update her "next IndieWebCamp" slide to point to IndieWebCampNYC!
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/NYC/Guest_List
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tantek since that's 4/26-27
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KartikPrabhu python folks: just made this repo to collect random indieweb algorithms started with a representative h-card algo. feel free to fork and add :)
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KartikPrabhu cc kylewm, snarfed, bear, tommorris
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kylewm excellent!
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@mikeflynn_ Crap! Totally forgot about this! “@kevinmarks: Here for @caseorganic’s Passion Projects #indieweb talk. http://t.co/UShmfY83Ur” (twitter.com/_/status/456981897474625536)
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caseorganic About to start the talk at Passion Projects
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tantek caseorganic awesome!!
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tantek be sure to give a heads up about IndieWebCampNYC 4/26-27!!
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tantek (people watch Passion Projects everywhere)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @nrrrdcore: watch @caseorganic talk live at http://passion-projects.github.io/live (twitter.com/_/status/456985511421554688)
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@benwerd RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @nrrrdcore: watch @caseorganic talk live at http://passion-projects.github.io/live (twitter.com/_/status/456985609274273792)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @nrrrdcore: Amber is my superhero for stepping in at the last minute to take over from a cancelled speaker (twitter.com/_/status/456985839353204737)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: I'm going to talk about the IndieWeb - the independent Web (twitter.com/_/status/456986018043154432)
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KevinMarks_ ready to webmention amber?
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@indiewebcamp RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @nrrrdcore: watch @caseorganic talk live at http://passion-projects.github.io/live (twitter.com/_/status/456986203040907264)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: I want to demonstrate POSSE - post on your own site, syndicate elsewhere. (twitter.com/_/status/456986230291722240)
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tantek boom
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: it used to be when you shared to twitter or facebook, all comments were stuck there but brid.gy brings them back (twitter.com/_/status/456986451583172608)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: I'm going to log in with my own domain name - this uses IndieAuth - it's like oAuth but indie (twitter.com/_/status/456986614322176000)
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@hybridjesus RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @nrrrdcore: Amber is my superhero for stepping in at the last minute to take over from a cancelled speaker (twitter.com/_/status/456986637151780864)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: I'm going to make a note on my site and syndicate to twitter and facebook, or even to medium (twitter.com/_/status/456986855083630592)
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@caseorganic At Passion Projects @medium talking about #indieweb! (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/04/17/4/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/456986960335077377)
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@_tessr RT @caseorganic: At Passion Projects @medium talking about #indieweb! (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/04/17/4/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/456987041394221056)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: here is my post on my site: http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/04/17/4/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/456987120977321984)
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@aliciatweet RT @caseorganic: At Passion Projects @medium talking about #indieweb! (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/04/17/4/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/456987407594708992)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: oh wow, look at all these people responding! The demo works. (twitter.com/_/status/456987618103029760)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: it uses my short url anth.ro which I had to talk to a Romanian bank to get (twitter.com/_/status/456987800320368641)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: IndieAuth works by linking form your own site to twitter github etc and back, to prove it is you (twitter.com/_/status/456987908843769856)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: this presentation is hosted on my own site, so I don't have to worry about someone deleting it (twitter.com/_/status/456988087466590208)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: Do you remember geocities? Myspace? Upcoming? posterous? Gowalla? Lavabit? did your stuff vanish? (twitter.com/_/status/456988285509042176)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: when sites die, they can be nice like posterous, and let you get your data back. Or they can be like AOL hometoen (twitter.com/_/status/456988468712075264)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: When AOL Hometown shut down they didn't email people, they put a notice on the Hometown site, which no-one went to (twitter.com/_/status/456988667052294144)
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@tilgovi RT @caseorganic: At Passion Projects @medium talking about #indieweb! (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/04/17/4/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/456988855279693825)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: one poor AOL hometown user posted "fortunately I saved my website to geocities" (twitter.com/_/status/456988886116626434)
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@tilgovi RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @nrrrdcore: watch @caseorganic talk live at http://passion-projects.github.io/live (twitter.com/_/status/456988926582861824)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: we're all sharecropping on these sites like facebook http://indiewebcamp.com/sharecropping (twitter.com/_/status/456989011996065793)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: here is my favourite version of twitter ( c. 2008) - when the site UI changes it's like my house being rearranged (twitter.com/_/status/456989247028076544)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: We're losing ownership up Maslow's hierarchy- we're now renting out self actualization from social networks (twitter.com/_/status/456989546086137856)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: back in 2003 people were making their own (weird, quirky) websites, and learning about the web (twitter.com/_/status/456989714663624704)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: back in 2003 we had blogs and our own domains to host our identity, and they learned to code with their blogs (twitter.com/_/status/456989878346342401)
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@kyle_wm Watching @caseorganic's talk about the #indieweb on http://passion-projects.github.io/live ... and you should too! (kyl.im n4Vd2) (twitter.com/_/status/456989962437529600)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: blog software let you adapt your site if you knew how to code, or write if you didn't (twitter.com/_/status/456990032075968513)
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tantek really curious about who is in the room @medium
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tantek anybody else here in IRC in the room with caseorganic besides KevinMarks?
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KartikPrabhu are they annotating?
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: the RSS and Atom wars happened, and we ended up with Friendster, facebook, myspace and twitter (twitter.com/_/status/456990359156170752)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: KevinMarks is livetweeting from the event
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KartikPrabhu yeah I am reading those :)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: these social network sites unified the reading and writing experiences, because reading feeds got hard (twitter.com/_/status/456990476428910592)
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@hybridjesus RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: back in 2003 people were making their own (weird, quirky) websites, and learning about the web (twitter.com/_/status/456990592359485440)
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KevinMarks_ lots of medium people put their hans up when Amber asked
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: there was a thing called pingback and trackback that was machine-generated to show links - it got full of spam (twitter.com/_/status/456990842516168704)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: there is not a lot of personal blog activity - WordPress is dominant, medium has some too (twitter.com/_/status/456991188806279168)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: Medium did have some terms of service that were worrying - they could use your content forever, that got fixed (twitter.com/_/status/456991426346516480)
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tantek KevinMarks - when she asked what?
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KevinMarks_ "who here is from medium?"
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KartikPrabhu !tell adactio: your webmention here - http://kartikprabhu.com/article/blogging-dead#response-37 was hard to get right! the lack of p-author, u-url made me reconsider a lot of safe defaults in my code!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: now short status update are an acceptable form of content, but we need to own our own data (twitter.com/_/status/456991723018027010)
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KartikPrabhu marvels at KevinMarks_'s live note taking abilites
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: back in 2008 @blaine and Ralph Meijer stayed up all night at Foo camp and got twitter talking to jaiku (twitter.com/_/status/456991975989063682)
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KevinMarks_ shame I have to do it on http://peaceful-headland-3727.herokuapp.com/ as I broke the noterlive codebase
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@mterenzio RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: the RSS and Atom wars happened, and we ended up with Friendster, facebook, myspace and twitter (twitter.com/_/status/456992134588289024)
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KartikPrabhu is now more impressed!
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: in 2010 at the Federeted Social Web Summit, @aaronpk and @t and I realised that standards came after working code (twitter.com/_/status/456992426956435458)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: A lot of times standards happen because somebody makes a temporary solution, and then get lost in committees (twitter.com/_/status/456992641469923328)
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Loqi [@kevinmarks] #indieweb @caseorganic: @t and @aaronpk and I decided to make IndieWebCamp - show don't tell
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Loqi creators only
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Loqi your own domain name to come (http://twtr.io/kLp4Www7pL)
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rknLA aaronpk: do you have any docs (or code!) on how !tell works? i've been working on an irc<->slack bot and wanna implement that, but was curious if there's any reference to look at
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: to register for IndieWebCamp, you had to have your own domain name, log in with OpenID and use mediawiki (twitter.com/_/status/456993158669545472)
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@rknLA Ugly. That’s what things are before they get really good. #indieweb #PassionProjects (twitter.com/_/status/456993286926782465)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: this meant we had people who came who could cope with things that were messy (twitter.com/_/status/456993305239502848)
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@_tessr "The history of most things is ugly. You have to be okay with that! You have to be okay with being an amateur." - @caseorganic on indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/456993392342208512)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: The problem with all the standards people is that they fight on mailing lists, so IndieWeb has no mailing lists (twitter.com/_/status/456993526774259713)
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caseorganic !tell barnabywalters hello!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: instead of a mailing list we have IRC, so we can use the Loqi bot to send them a message for later (twitter.com/_/status/456993841166688256)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: when there is enough stuff in the IRC, someone will document it on a wiki page (twitter.com/_/status/456993991922548736)
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@rknLA An error page is an opportunity. #indieweb #PassionProjects (twitter.com/_/status/456994124709654529)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: I asked Brad Cunningham why wikis work and he said that error pages become opportunities to fix things (twitter.com/_/status/456994149276090368)
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@yarrcat RT @rknLA: Ugly. That’s what things are before they get really good. #indieweb #PassionProjects (twitter.com/_/status/456994239503532032)
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kartikprabhu.com uploaded /File:medium-annotation-sidebar-mobile.jpg "medium annotations mobile"
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: @baline says when stories win over implementations, the best storyteller wins, not the best solution (twitter.com/_/status/456994289223229440)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: The problem with all the standards people is that they fight on mailing lists, so IndieWeb has no m… (twitter.com/_/status/456994330398691328)
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@nick_porcaro RT @rknLA: Ugly. That’s what things are before they get really good. #indieweb #PassionProjects (twitter.com/_/status/456994379886886912)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: Principles: POSSE Publish Own Site, Share Elsewhere (twitter.com/_/status/456994406835703808)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+0) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ update photo to 2014-099" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: if POSSE isn't possible, use PESOS - Post Elsewhere, Share to Own Site - it's a bandaid (twitter.com/_/status/456994528495665152)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /annotation (+224) "/* Medium */ mobile overlay" (view diff)
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@betsythedevine RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: We're losing ownership up Maslow's hierarchy- we're now renting out self actualization from social … (twitter.com/_/status/456994698369196032)
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KartikPrabhu speaking of medium I have been documenting their annotations UI here: http://indiewebcamp.com/annotation#Medium
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: Sandeep.io created WebMention - if you mention a post you can tell them to look it up and show it on their site (twitter.com/_/status/456994809740537856)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: We added IndieWeb Event RSVP so we can get RSVPs back from facebook too (twitter.com/_/status/456995085704761344)
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KartikPrabhu tantek: any feedback on writing this: http://indiewebcamp.com/annotation#Medium ?
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@AriellaLeaffer RT @caseorganic: At Passion Projects @medium talking about #indieweb! (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/04/17/4/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/456995235810127872)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: We need an IndieWeb because you might lose photos and files, if the site shuts down, gets bought or changes ToS (twitter.com/_/status/456995241988726785)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: great start on documenting that
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tantek thank you!
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rknLA KartikPrabhu: looks great!
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KartikPrabhu thanks will add some of my criticisms
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: IndieWeb is Freedom - to decide what to post and where to share it (twitter.com/_/status/456995372662288384)
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@absolutwit RT @rknLA: Ugly. That’s what things are before they get really good. #indieweb #PassionProjects (twitter.com/_/status/456995476328300544)
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tantek.com edited /2014/NYC/Guest_List (+54) "/* IndieWebCamp New York 2014 */ add Lanyrd URL" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: Homestead, don't Sharecrop! - have a home for your own data, that can't be taken from you (twitter.com/_/status/456995614124179457)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: the community has built a lot of tools, many open source so you cna set these up (twitter.com/_/status/456995732130902016)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: What to do? Own your Own domain - they're cheap (twitter.com/_/status/456995821884821504)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: We need an IndieWeb because you might lose photos and files, if the site shuts down, gets bought or… (twitter.com/_/status/456996004492226560)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: Join the indieweb IRC channel: http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC (twitter.com/_/status/456996007545696256)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: IndieWeb is Freedom - to decide what to post and where to share it (twitter.com/_/status/456996013136683008)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: Homestead, don't Sharecrop! - have a home for your own data, that can't be taken from you (twitter.com/_/status/456996019767889920)
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@funnymonkey Catch the timeline of @kevinmarks and @caseorganic talking about the #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/456996265880870912)
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tantek.com edited /2014/NYC/Guest_List (+16) "/* IndieWebCamp New York 2014 */ Plancast URL" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: come to an indiewebcamp next is in NYC april 26-27 http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/NYC/Guest_List (twitter.com/_/status/456996278569037825)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @nrrrdcore: putting your content in silos is like having a bunch of ex-boyfriends who won't give your stuff back (twitter.com/_/status/456996425164132352)
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tantek Excellent!
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KartikPrabhu lol! max!
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KartikPrabhu caseorganic++
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Loqi caseorganic has 130 karma
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tantek LOL! nrrrdcore++
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @nrrrdcore: we're going to take questions from the audience, I'll repeat (twitter.com/_/status/456996567204237313)
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KartikPrabhu yeah my bad!
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @nrrrdcore: where did you get your socks? (twitter.com/_/status/456996592290369536)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @nrrrdcore: they're from japan, and they feature capybaras which are awesome animals in a hottub in japan (twitter.com/_/status/456996710674599937)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: they're from japan, and they feature capybaras which are awesome animals in a hottub in japan (twitter.com/_/status/456996790941011968)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: Join the indieweb IRC channel: http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC (twitter.com/_/status/456996898587824128)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @nrrrdcore: audience q: are these technologies at the point where your grandmother could use them? (twitter.com/_/status/456996926748364800)
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KevinMarks_ getting gateway timeout on the wiki
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: indiewebcamp.com giving a 504
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: I'm glad you asked, I prepared an answer at http://indiewebcamp.com/generations for people who cna join in (twitter.com/_/status/456997121162752000)
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu, KevinMarks_, why do you suppose draco wanted to collapse white space? https://github.com/dracos/fragmentions/commit/b6c46096e0d33d82049c21391d599aedb5601092
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@hardaway RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: Principles: POSSE Publish Own Site, Share Elsewhere (twitter.com/_/status/456997198551449601)
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JonathanNeal I’m going to reject the request. I don’t think it would change anything unless you were matching for something that started with a space.
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: I missed that conversation
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KevinMarks_ JonathanNeal: because he had pages with newlines in and had to put %0a in the fragmention to make them work
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tantek aaronpk - indiewebcamp.com is getting slammed!
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tantek just responded for me though :)
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JonathanNeal eep, 502 Bad Gateway, tantek, traffic or attack?
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KartikPrabhu this is a conspiracy by Medium since I was planning to diss on their annotations
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KartikPrabhu jk! jk!
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KevinMarks_ isn't there an "anyone can reboot" button?
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KartikPrabhu ducks for cover
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@spyra RT @caseorganic: At Passion Projects @medium talking about #indieweb! (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/04/17/4/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/456997576810586112)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: as we go through these generations of communities, we grow more people and make it more formal and easier (twitter.com/_/status/456997645350096896)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @nrrrdcore: audience q: are these technologies at the point where your grandmother could use them? (twitter.com/_/status/456997743341613056)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: I'm glad you asked, I prepared an answer at http://indiewebcamp.com/generations for people who cna join in (twitter.com/_/status/456997757648396288)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: I'm giving you a sneak peek into an immature technology that is growing slowly (twitter.com/_/status/456997781899857921)
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@_le_fil_ Kevin Marks: #indieweb @caseorganic: We added IndieWeb Event RSVP so we can get RSVPs back from facebook too: https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/statuses/456995085704761344 (twitter.com/_/status/456997879949713408)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @nrrrdcore: audience q: how do terms of service handle pulling comments form other sites? (twitter.com/_/status/456997919951187969)
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JonathanNeal KevinMarks_: got it. well, is there consensus that fragmentions should disregard line returns? Or do you think it’s reasonably dependent on the use case?
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aaronpk ack
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KevinMarks_ I think it's a good consensus as they are invisible to users
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: it can get complicated - we are trying to get comments back from instagram at the moment, and they don't let us yet (twitter.com/_/status/456998205914624001)
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@markjaquith RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @nrrrdcore: putting your content in silos is like having a bunch of ex-boyfriends who won't give your stuff back (twitter.com/_/status/456998240454721536)
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@markjaquith RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: Homestead, don't Sharecrop! - have a home for your own data, that can't be taken from you (twitter.com/_/status/456998337150205952)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: it works on most sites, but they can change the terms of service to stop you getting it back (twitter.com/_/status/456998389830668288)
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@markjaquith RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: We need an IndieWeb because you might lose photos and files, if the site shuts down, gets bought or… (twitter.com/_/status/456998395354558464)
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@markjaquith RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: IndieWeb is Freedom - to decide what to post and where to share it (twitter.com/_/status/456998406909857792)
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @caseorganic: The web is a big mess - it always has been, but ToS makes it a worse mess (twitter.com/_/status/456998552699686913)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: I'm giving you a sneak peek into an immature technology that is growing slowly (twitter.com/_/status/456998597389983744)
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @nrrrdcore: audience q: how do terms of service handle pulling comments form other sites? (twitter.com/_/status/456998605443067904)
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@hybridjesus RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: I'm giving you a sneak peek into an immature technology that is growing slowly (twitter.com/_/status/456998734195621888)
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tantek this is so amazing: https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/456996425164132352
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@kevinmarks #indieweb @nrrrdcore: putting your content in silos is like having a bunch of ex-boyfriends who won't give your stuff back (twitter.com/_/status/456996425164132352)
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KevinMarks_ Julie Ann is great
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tantek yes she is
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@OhhSocialMedia RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: The web is a big mess - it always has been, but ToS makes it a worse mess (twitter.com/_/status/456999433285414912)
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JonathanNeal I am going to reject https://github.com/dracos/fragmentions/commit/82cc19a52decdf91afcb7cb3c342ea7c1d2cf2c0 as no real-world implementation would ever add a class.
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aaronpk I think it's back
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: hmm really? I thought that was a good way to have each website decide how to present fragmentions to readers
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: if that were the case, it would be better to add an attribute.
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KartikPrabhu or are you thinking of when browsers do this on their own?
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JonathanNeal Yes.
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kbs thanks for the live-tweets KevinMarks - nice precis of the interesting bits
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aaronpk KartikPrabhu: there was an "anyone can reboot" button on the old server :)
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KartikPrabhu hmm makes sense... I would like the option of having those
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KartikPrabhu aaronpk: that wasn't me :)
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks_ ^^
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: try to imagine what browsers would actually do and we’ll do whatever is closest to that.
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aaronpk bye for now, let me know if it crashes again
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KartikPrabhu fair enough. :)
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KevinMarks_ JonathanNeal: I thought he had an example working - there as back and forth about whether just styling focus was enough
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KevinMarks_ ah gotcha
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KevinMarks_ can you style an attribute as easily?
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JonathanNeal [yes]
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KartikPrabhu KevinMarks yes i think CSS3 has some [attr=""] type selector
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JonathanNeal <p yes>, [yes]
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KartikPrabhu yeah that ^^
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KevinMarks_ remembers from vote links
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: so you think adding an attribute like "fragmention" or something would be better?
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@kevinmarks Notes from @caseorganic's Passion Projects #indieweb talk are on my site at http://www.kevinmarks.com/amberpassion.html - thanks @nrrrdcore for organising (twitter.com/_/status/457001392280846336)
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JonathanNeal Alternatively, we could 1. check the fragmention element for an existing ID and, if found, write the hash as that ID, and, if not found, assign it the ID in the hash, allowing you to use :target today.
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JonathanNeal Basically, we can make it so that you can use :target, with the caveat that we’ll either be adding IDs to elements or rewriting the hash to match the ID of the element.
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KartikPrabhu aah I see. dynamically assigning the ID to the element... nice! But rewriting the hash from existing ID would throw me off as a reader as to why the page is now pointing to "somethign else"
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JonathanNeal On the plus side, I think this would remove the need to focus the element or throw tabindex on it.
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: yes, that is true.
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KartikPrabhu for instance if currently browsers don't find a fragment they leave it alone. That is good behaviour i think
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JonathanNeal That would stay the same, this would only be if you found an element, but that immediate element already had an id.
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KartikPrabhu yeah. but still the URL changing would throw people off
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KartikPrabhu also it would be good to document the current algorithm wrt "whitespace" etc... on /fragmention
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JonathanNeal e.g. ##The+Purpose matching <h1 id="purpose">The Purpose</h1> would change the hash to #purpose.
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@indiewebcamp RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @nrrrdcore: putting your content in silos is like having a bunch of ex-boyfriends who won't give your stuff back (twitter.com/_/status/457002988851060737)
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KartikPrabhu yes but ##this+one+is+great matching <h1 id="purpose">The Purpose</h1> would change the hash to #purpose. would be bad
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tantek KevinMarks - is the talk over?
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tantek How was Q&A?
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JonathanNeal You mean <h1 id="purpose">The Purpose (this one is great)</h1>?
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JonathanNeal Remember, it has to match the immediate element.
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KartikPrabhu sorry bad example may be <p id="purpose">this one is great ... </p>
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: yes, though a real world example would be <p id="comment-563">this one is great...</p>
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KartikPrabhu eh! yeah something like that :)
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JonathanNeal This is a good community for feedback, I guess I’d want to know what others might expect as well. You would not want it to _correct_ you.
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@jalbertbowdenii RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @nrrrdcore: putting your content in silos is like having a bunch of ex-boyfriends who won't give your stuff back (twitter.com/_/status/457003967055409152)
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KevinMarks_ drinks!
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JonathanNeal Since we’re about creating/owning our web presence.
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JonathanNeal And drinks.
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KevinMarks_ I am getting more convinced that #two+words is cool
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JonathanNeal what would #freedom do?
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KevinMarks_ and even #oneword
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KevinMarks_ #freedom would look for id's first, and if not found, look for the word
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KartikPrabhu Q: are id allowed to be space separated? or have + in them?
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KartikPrabhu i.e. id="two words" or id="two+words" ?
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KevinMarks They can have + but that would be two%2bwords
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JonathanNeal KartikPrabhu: An ID must not contain whitespace
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KartikPrabhu I see.
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KevinMarks Which is our loophole
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KartikPrabhu it would be cool if the browser gave me the fragmention link. As in I selected a piece of text right click and it says "get link" then sending fragmentions to friends would be quite easy
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@kim Update from the #IndieWeb front lines. Amber @caseorganic project affects er'body, imo. @kevinmarks shared his notes: http://www.kevinmarks.com/amberpassion.html (twitter.com/_/status/457007104558002176)
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@kim RT @caseorganic: At Passion Projects @medium talking about #indieweb! (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/04/17/4/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/457007260783214593)
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@manojpallai RT @kim: Update from the #IndieWeb front lines. Amber @caseorganic project affects er'body, imo. @kevinmarks shared his notes: http://t.co/… (twitter.com/_/status/457007287702667264)
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JonathanNeal I just found a wonderful bug in every major browser that would could exploit.
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KartikPrabhu eh!
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JonathanNeal No, it’s really good.
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KartikPrabhu what is it...
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Loqi it is also funny how most people who comment don
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KartikPrabhu Loqi you're drunk go home!
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kartikprabhu.com edited /annotation (-1) "typo fix" (view diff)
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JonathanNeal It might not be a bug, but browsers do not update :target on DOM change. Not Safari, not Firefox, not Chrome, not IE.
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KartikPrabhu hmm...
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KevinMarks What is target as opposed to focus?
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KartikPrabhu so :target is assigned only on DOM load or soemthing
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KevinMarks I like "link to" as an action on selection
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JonathanNeal If we (temporarily) give the fragmention element the matching ID, then location.hash = location.hash to trigger :target update, then restore/remove its ID, we get a working :target.
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@manojpallai RT @caseorganic: At Passion Projects @medium talking about #indieweb! (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/04/17/4/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/457009304638611456)
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JonathanNeal :target is a CSS selector that matches the element matching the hash.
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JonathanNeal <p id="awesome"> matches :target when you hit #awesome.
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@bear RT @kevinmarks: Notes from @caseorganic's Passion Projects #indieweb talk are on my site at http://www.kevinmarks.com/amberpassion.html - thanks @nrrrdcore for … (twitter.com/_/status/457009697019940864)
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@search8engine RT @kevinmarks: Notes from @caseorganic's Passion Projects #indieweb talk are on my site at http://www.kevinmarks.com/amberpassion.html - thanks @nrrrdcore for … (twitter.com/_/status/457009884916367360)
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JonathanNeal boo, worked in every browser but Chrome.
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KartikPrabhu haha!
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KartikPrabhu a good UI for the click and get fragmention is what Medium does! You highlight some text and it pops up options to comment on it or tweet it.
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kartikprabhu.com edited /annotation (+532) "/* Medium */" (view diff)
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kartikprabhu.com edited /annotation (+1) "/* Criticism */ typo fix" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu added criticism of Medium annotation UI http://indiewebcamp.com/annotation#Criticism feel free to add/dispute
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JonathanNeal Is there a nicer way to say “closest surrounding element”?
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KartikPrabhu JonathanNeal: parent element?
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snarfed hey KartikPrabhu, happy to help you try to get the activitystreams tests running if you want
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snarfed kylewm also has then running if you end up working on them when I'm not here
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KartikPrabhu snarfed: sure let me attempt again
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KartikPrabhu still gives me "ImportError: No module named appengine.api"
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KartikPrabhu even though I have google appengine in the right place
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snarfed KartikPrabhu: can you paste the full exception somewhere?
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KartikPrabhu where is a good place? IM?
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@RamzySweis Indie Authority features #Hero Comedian from #Chicago http://www.theindieauthority.com/ladyspitfire-interviews-ramzy-sweis-comedian/ 120 Shares #indieweb #Heroes #succeedandproceed Thank You #wits (twitter.com/_/status/457030924555649024)
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@MaximeFF RT @caseorganic: At Passion Projects @medium talking about #indieweb! (http://caseorganic.com/notes/2014/04/17/4/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/457034130673651712)
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KevinMarks2 KartikPrabhu: was just sitting with the medium engineers talking about that
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KartikPrabhu about? annotations?
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KevinMarks2 About the link generation UI
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KevinMarks2 And fragmention
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KartikPrabhu aah yes! what was their opinion?
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JonathanNeal I’m about to push a BIG update.
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JonathanNeal The new version includes feature testing, matches whitespace-insensitive, set location.fragmentation property, improves IE8 performance, supports IE6-7, with deeper polyfill documentation.
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KartikPrabhu oh boy!
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KevinMarks2 Wow
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JonathanNeal Updated: https://github.com/chapmanu/fragmentions
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KevinMarks2 I was explaining how the webmention/fragmention combo could integrate external posts with their ui
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KevinMarks2 Also asking for pesos support where a medium post could be exported to my server
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KevinMarks2 Though he kept saying embedded
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KartikPrabhu aah... then maybe they want you to embed them like youtube
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KevinMarks2 Well, that was what they were thinking, but I was explaining the alternative of a plain minimal version with a JS decorator that adds in the comments, image size variants etc.
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KevinMarks2 I did say "embed like Google wave"
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KartikPrabhu ahh Google Wave... great idea bad UI
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@KatCapps RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @caseorganic: Homestead, don't Sharecrop! - have a home for your own data, that can't be taken from you (twitter.com/_/status/457043436206432256)
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jonathantneal.com edited /fragmention (+33) "/* indieweb implementations */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks does the chrome extension auto update?
wildtype, dybskiy, eschnou, friedcell, caseorganic, eschenal, jsilvestre, melvster, Sebastien-L, caseorga_, dybskiy_, pfenwick, KevinMarks, dybskiy__, KevinMarks2, glennjones_, indie-visitor and pasevin joined the channel
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dracos.co.uk edited /fragmention (+85) "Fix name of site" (view diff)
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@emyllymaki RT @kevinmarks: #indieweb @nrrrdcore: putting your content in silos is like having a bunch of ex-boyfriends who won't give your stuff back (twitter.com/_/status/457167022044897280)
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@localherodotbiz @RamzySweis your status update has nothing to do with the indieweb, don't misuse the hashtag (twitter.com/_/status/457171687956439040)
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JonathanNeal Goodmorning (from PT)!
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@RamzySweis RT @localherodotbiz: @RamzySweis your status update has nothing to do with the indieweb, don't misuse the hashtag (twitter.com/_/status/457172167856099328)
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KevinMarks Morning
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ben_thatmustbeme good morning
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bnvk Any of you cool kids interested in tinkering on #Mailpile + IndieWeb style email plugins? We're having a sort of workshop today http://bnvk.me/HJY
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kylewm.com edited /posse-post-discovery (+131) "/* Discover POSSE copies via rel-syndication */" (view diff)
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kylewm !tell snarfed hey, does the instagram API give you a way to get the author's homepage url? right now my author[url] = instagram.com/_kylewm
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed kylewm: yeah, instagram does give you that. hmm, looking
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Loqi snarfed: kylewm left you a message 54 seconds ago: hey, does the instagram API give you a way to get the author's homepage url? right now my author[url] = instagram.com/_kylewm
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snarfed it definitely can/does extract user urls, e.g. https://www.brid.gy/instagram/snarfed
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snarfed kylewm: where's your bridgy instagram user page? i can't find it
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kylewm oh, i'm only logged into it locally
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kylewm since i don't really use IG
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kylewm but you're right, it did pull my url out of there
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snarfed cool
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kylewm ok looks like instagram.com/... is the fallback if it can't find a website, i will dig a little more
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kylewm thanks!
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@kevinmarks @quinnnorton @jilliancyork @zephoria I do sometimes wonder if #indieweb is the SCA for blogging, like https://xkcd.com/239/ predicted (twitter.com/_/status/457227821903904770)
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j12t Anybody know how the term “indie web” was coined?
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aaronpk first reference I have about it is from 2010, tantek suggesting doing an IndieWebCamp the weekend after OSBridge
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Loqi [mention] http://dougmckown.com/2014/04/16/why-im-quitting-facebook/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://dougmckown.com/2014/04/16/why-im-quitting-facebook/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://dougmckown.com/2014/04/16/why-im-quitting-facebook/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/why (webmention)
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j12t any idea why he picked that term over another?
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Loqi [mention] http://dougmckown.com/2014/04/16/why-im-quitting-facebook/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/site-deaths (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://dougmckown.com/2014/04/16/why-im-quitting-facebook/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://dougmckown.com/2014/04/16/why-im-quitting-facebook/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/why (webmention)
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aaronpk yeah 2010-12-31 is the earliest date I found
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j12t where?
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@TheRealDod RT @kevinmarks: @quinnnorton @jilliancyork @zephoria I do sometimes wonder if #indieweb is the SCA for blogging, like https://t.co/yCzDSiPO… (twitter.com/_/status/457233203984875521)
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aaronpk IM conversation with tantek
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aaronpk and then during the conversation, made this: http://calagator.org/events/1250459571
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Loqi IndieWebCamp on Saturday, Jun 25, 10:00am at Urban Airship (old location)
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kingkool68 Hey Indie Web Campers! I'm looking for a solution to collect my own links
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kingkool68 I regularly stumble across interesting links and I want to be able to store them, tag them, categorize them etc.
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kingkool68 I can already think of a way to do this with WordPress
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bret yay! marginallly improved displaying of replies. Examples http://bret.io/2014/03/29/nardwuar/ http://bret.io/2014/03/23/iwc-irc-logs/ http://bret.io/2014/03/16/github-pages-pubsubhubbub-support-levels-up/
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Loqi :D
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bret aaronpk: does micropub require the endpoint run https?
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aaronpk it probably should, but not yet
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bret oh rad heroku works over https by defaulty
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j12t kingkool68: shaarli?
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aaronpk this is rad https://matt.sh/redis-geo
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aaronpk I think I'm gonna use that for all my geo search stuff
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bret aaronpk: is the micropub authorization token that is sent to the endpoint the same as the token the client has during IA authentication?
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bret sent to the endpoint by the micropub client
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aaronpk are you familiar with oauth2?
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bret no :(
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bret not really
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aaronpk ok well, in OAuth 2 there's the authorization code and an access token
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bret my understanding is that once the user is logged into a client, they have a verified auth token and a micropub endpoint url to make requests too
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aaronpk so stick with those terms otherwise this gets confusing
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bret ack ok
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aaronpk you first talk to the indieauth server to get an authorization code
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bret so when you log into a client, the client gets the token
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aaronpk then the client exchanges the authorization code for an access token at the token endpoint
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aaronpk the access token is the thing the client keeps around and used to make micropub requests
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bret hrmm... so step 3 (https://indieauth.com/) that is actually an authorization code? not a token?
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aaronpk yeah
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bret then the client verifies the auth code agaist IA, and does it get back the access token at that point, assuming sucess
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aaronpk the clien takes the auth code and makes a request to the token endpoint to get an access token
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cweiske.de edited /User:Cweiske.de (-4) (view diff)
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GWG I need an aesthetic opinion
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aaronpk i hear they sell them pretty cheap on twitter
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friedcell :)
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GWG I'm missing something.
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KevinMarks_ visual aesthetic or code aesthetic
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GWG KevinMarks_: Visual. Although you can tell me how ugly my code is. I probably will comment it a bit more and clean it before putting it into place
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GWG I've never worked with Bootstrap before.
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GWG I was trying to use it as a shortcut to avoid having to visualize some of the responsive design elements.
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KevinMarks_ JonathanNeal was commenting on dracos's code aesthetic yesterday
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rascul bootstrap not hard
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KevinMarks_ I find bootstrap itchy
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KevinMarks_ though I haven't done much with it
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aaronpk KevinMarks_: did you know my site uses bootstrap? :)
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rascul bootstrap bores me
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snarfed rascul:
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snarfed er, rascul: good infrastructure should
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rascul i might be able to agree with that
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rascul my brain isn't working today so that's the best response i can give
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GWG I've never used it. Trying to rather tan building my own.
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GWG I have another fork where I may try my own
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GWG But this is faster for now
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GWG It is far from done...
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GWG http://tiny.n9n.us/
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GWG This is my test site.
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GWG The theme should be mf2 compliant
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kylewm looking good so far GWG, I am no designer, but I'd say 1) line up the left margin, so the title, posts, and footer are all on the same axis
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kylewm and 2) make the rounded border radius a bit smaller
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kylewm also when you go down to a smaller screen size, the right margin goes away all together, which looks a bit wonky
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GWG I'm looking at the font right now.
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GWG I'm also going to fix the margins.
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GWG And I have the individual post formats.
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GWG You can see the aside example there, which is a 'note' style.
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GWG I haven't styled the tags/categories fully yet.
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GWG Made some changes
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GWG Some of the settings need tweaking.
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GWG How does one choose a font?
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kylewm so is this still the "starter theme" with the intentions that other designers build on it?
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GWG kylewm: I built that
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GWG Now I'm building on it
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kylewm ahh, gotcha
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GWG But I'll release this too, and innovate them both
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GWG iterate, not innovate, excuse e
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kylewm fonts... stick to the classics unless you really know what you're doing?
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kylewm Google fonts does have some cool features for showing you commonly paired fonts (i.e., for title/body)
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GWG I know. I probably will for now
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GWG Work on other things.
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GWG I fixed the margins, for example.
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GWG And I have the menu to fiddle with
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GWG But, once it is mostly complete, I'll deploy it to my website.
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GWG Might as well selfdogfood.
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kylewm GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 1 karma
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kylewm looks like Mailpile and MediaGoblin are in the semi-finals of Knight News Challenge https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/2014/refinement/
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GWG I met one of the MediaGoblin people.
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GWG We got stuck at the airport a while back
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kylewm cwebber?
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aaronpk trsst made it too
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aaronpk https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/2014/refinement/trsst-a-distributed-secure-blog-platform-for-the-open-web
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GWG Deb Nicholson.
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GWG This would have been right when it was starting t.
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kylewm trsst sounds like a cool project too -- are they IWC- um... acquainted?
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kylewm "affiliated" much too strong
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aaronpk sorta yeah, they sponsored the IWC SF although I don't think they came
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aaronpk ah IWC Hollywood
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/trsst
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kylewm participant i guess is the right word
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kylewm cool!
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KevinMarks_ hm, also https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/2014/refinement/open-annotations-for-the-web
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KevinMarks_ should have proposed fragmentions
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spontineous So I am new to this IRC Channel. How does this work
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KevinMarks_ you come in here and talk, and we might reply
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KevinMarks_ are you working on indieweb on your own site?
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spontineous No, I only came here in order to discover other people's independent sites
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rascul you can't discover my site yet
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spontineous okay
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KevinMarks_ also https://www.newschallenge.org/challenge/2014/refinement/404-no-more-fix-missing-links-forever
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rascul one day my site will be discoverable
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rascul but for that to happen it must first exist, and it's not there yet
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spontineous same here
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spontineous if i had enough money in excess to invest in a domain then i would
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spontineous plus the time to invest in creating a ui and such is something i don't have
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bret aaronpk: Andy Delcambre is giving a talk on github archetecture. I'm going to try and ask him about the GH-pages redirect issue
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aaronpk sweet
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aaronpk apparently sometimes the first time you make a request to *any* url on github pages it returns 301 redirect to itself
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aaronpk seems to only happen on the first request in a "while"
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aaronpk but it's not limited to the / path
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bret "first" ... "while"
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aaronpk right
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bret per device?
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bret or session?
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aaronpk not sure