#indiewebcamp 2013-10-24
2013-10-24 UTC
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@giyom If #ownyourdata is a trend & if we view banks as silos for a special kind of data, an analogue trend could be #beyourownbank cc @t (twitter.com/_/status/393168190223552512)
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@_crossdiver @obensource keep me posted -- I really can't wait to see this take off. #indieweb #killSILOS //@aaronpk (twitter.com/_/status/393168649621479424)
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@benwerd RT @t: “we’re embarking on something big right now … we’d better buckle up.” @_crossdiver #indieweb http://ike.io/2013/10/23/the-indieweb.html (ttk.me t4Sg1) (twitter.com/_/status/393168751484354560)
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@joshwnj RT @t: “we’re embarking on something big right now … we’d better buckle up.” @_crossdiver #indieweb http://ike.io/2013/10/23/the-indieweb.html (ttk.me t4Sg1) (twitter.com/_/status/393173692860989440)
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JonathanNeal hi
# JonathanNeal I asked my friend about posting on your own site versus Facebook, and he forwarded me some links.
# JonathanNeal I was wondering how accurate they were, http://thenextweb.com/2009/02/16/facebook-owns-literally-put-facebook/ and http://thenextweb.com/2009/02/17/mark-zuckerbergs-official-response-facebooks-change-terms/
# JonathanNeal Feel free to tell me if this has no baring on the indie web way.
# JonathanNeal I guess it depends. "There is no system today that enables me to share my email address with you and then simultaneously lets me control who you share it with and also lets you control what services you share it with."
# JonathanNeal I'm not sure how anyone can put anything on a publicly accessible page and then hold distribution rights over it.
# JonathanNeal At least, without a lot of money and lawyers.
# JonathanNeal I haven't read the online distribution rights for dummies.
# JonathanNeal What rights do you have over what you put on your own website, is that written anywhere in plain terms?
# JonathanNeal No, I'm trying to get a local archive to publish some of their catalog online.
# JonathanNeal They don't profit from it, but they're old and want to understand what happens to content on the internet, and they share links with me like the ones above.
# JonathanNeal a historical archive of photos, text, letters, etc.
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pdurbin kind of like http://www.murray.harvard.edu ?
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@alanlaidlaw RT @t: “we’re embarking on something big right now … we’d better buckle up.” @_crossdiver #indieweb http://ike.io/2013/10/23/the-indieweb.html (ttk.me t4Sg1) (twitter.com/_/status/393189726284296192)
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# JonathanNeal pdurbin: kinda sorta
# pdurbin full disclousure: I work on the software that hosts that archive: https://github.com/iqss/dvn
# pdurbin but hosting is free: http://thedata.org/book/using-harvard-dataverse-network
# JonathanNeal Nice.
# JonathanNeal What does it run on?
# pdurbin JonathanNeal: Java and PostgreSQL mostly. Details at http://people.iq.harvard.edu/~pdurbin
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skinny tantek: heya
# skinny tantek: i haven't yet
# skinny tantek: I will! heya I did some typograpy cleanup on Falcon http://cl.ly/image/0B2d47143g1G
# skinny lookie moar purdy
# skinny which is lolspeak for "I improved the visual hierarchy to focus the user's attention on the most important info, the updates."
# skinny tantek: I'm hoping you can diff this file with the edits. http://cl.ly/code/133w0805283X
# skinny tantek: I would have used float:left for both divs and aligned from there. That negative margin makes me nervous.
# skinny tantek: I think 90% of what I want to do with falcon with photos could be accomplished by making hashtags links that to a search results page for that hashtag.
# JonathanNeal tantek: Amber's presentation was fantastic.
# skinny tantek: yes, it was a surprise to me too
# skinny tantek: oh noes. i was hoping to use it for this trip photos.
# skinny tantek: dropbox?
# skinny i was hoping to have everything backup to my dropbox account anyway
# JonathanNeal pdurbin: do you use a numeric timestamp in your archives? If so, what system? I've always wondered how to archive my own content that extends before 1970 or past 2038.
# skinny what's the issue with uploading to your own server?
# skinny i'm not expecting a ton of traffic
# skinny true true
# JonathanNeal tantek: i'm on a preservation board, chatting it up with a historical society, and yes, most of the archive's gems are pre-1970.
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# skinny tantek: i think we might be over engineering here. i self-host all photos on my wordpress blog. have never had an issue in 8yrs.
# JonathanNeal Well, I've been interested, because I would personally like to use something more robust than 1970-2038.
# JonathanNeal tantek: if you think it's a major distraction for the indieweb to ask other developers who cut their own, I'm sorry. I will refrain.
# skinny tantek: we should all wish for your problems. :D
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tantek.com edited /ActivityStreams (+298) "add FAQ section with question moved from general indieweb FAQ" (view diff)
# tantek.com edited /FAQ (+880) "move AS question to AS page (not an essential IndieWeb question), answer questions about email vs IRC etc." (view diff)
# JonathanNeal tantek: internet time, approx 435422466247746132000
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tantek skinny - see also: http://indiewebcamp.com/photos
# tantek skinny - also see also: http://indiewebcamp.com/photo_upload
# snarfed.org edited /backfeed (+1108) "details on Facebook backfeed, examples from brid.gy" (view diff)
# tantek !tell caseorganic you and aaronpk might be interested in: http://indiewebcamp.com/faq#Is_there_an_IndieWeb_mailing_list and the following FAQs. Feel free to add more follow-ups if you've heard any.
# JonathanNeal tantek: it's, uh, Internet Time! Universe = 13.798 billion years old. 10:30pm PST, October 29, 1969 = first ARPANET log.
# tantek.com edited /Events (+272) "/* Upcoming */ add rough estimate month dates for SF, NYC, UK" (view diff)
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# @alanlaidlaw @InSuperposition this is very much like what we've been talking about: http://caseorganic.com/notes/2013/10/22/2/realtimeconf-indieweb-ownyourdata #indieweb #RealtimeConf (twitter.com/_/status/393230089808121856)
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@skinny @waxpancake See @caseorganic mourning Upcoming at 22mins, then a vision for soical indie events. http://vimeo.com/77352414 #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/393234593668542464)
# skinny tantek: how much scaffolding are we doing to get indieweb going? example: wordpress plugin that supports indie events
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# tantek skinny, there are some folks working on indieweb wordpress plugins: http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress#Plugins
# skinny tantek: are you seeing the conversation with andy? https://twitter.com/adamd/status/393239531589074944
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@adamd @waxpancake I thank you for avoiding a "part 1/78" tweet. But I want to hear this answer. /cc @skinny @caseorganic
# skinny tantek: umm... i like it when things get adoption. :D
# skinny are we talking past each other? an adopted protocol = success
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# tantek another way of looking at this: http://tantek.com/2013/151/t1/build-stuff-kills-your-own-facebook-usage-indieweb
# skinny agree 100%. i love this angle. If it depends on adoption to be useful, it's likely not going to get adoption.
# skinny I still think adoption is an important metric of success
# skinny i originally wrote the question to him as "what would you need to see from indie events to convince you to put it on waxy."
# skinny in any case, the question as asked was about success, not adoption. so insert any definition of success that works for you.
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Loqi caseorganic: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 35 minutes ago: you and aaronpk might be interested in: http://indiewebcamp.com/faq#Is_there_an_IndieWeb_mailing_list and the following FAQs. Feel free to add more follow-ups if you've heard any.
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@aaronpk @waxpancake How did I miss seeing you there? Would love to chat about this more when I'm back in PDX! #indieweb (http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/10/23/3/indieweb) (twitter.com/_/status/393249913967886337)
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@amcewen @kevinmarks That reminds me, have you seen the @redecentralize project yet? Feels like there's some crossover/synergy with #indieweb ideas (twitter.com/_/status/393260950264233984)
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KevinMarks I'm thinking that ghost could be a good place to add webmention support
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# KevinMarks Every time I go into the guts of wordpress I run away screaming
# KevinMarks but I agree that building plugins for it is sensible
# KevinMarks I did get microformats into Blogger's templates, but that was a while ago and they may have rotted
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# KevinMarks in the same way tumblr does - if it is easier to use built-in collboration over truly indie ways
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cweiske http://indiewebcamp.com/Diaspora says nothing
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# pdurbin JonathanNeal: numeric timestamps? our system gives data DOIs (something academic papers get these days): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_object_identifier ... the idea is that you should be able to cite data and let people get credit for it. We can take this to #dvn if you want
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barnabywalters the sample code assumes that you’re using composer to install PHP dependencies
# barnabywalters if you’re just downloading the file, you can use it by putting it in the same folder and
# barnabywalters require 'Parser.php'
# barnabywalters or require __DIR__ . '/Parser.php';
# barnabywalters Mf2\Parser now
# barnabywalters I uppercased the Mf2 for PSR-0 compat
# barnabywalters np :)
# barnabywalters “use Mf2\Parser” aliases the Mf2\Parser class to “Parser” in that file, so you can just go “$parser = new Parser($html, $url);”
# barnabywalters you shouldn’t actually need to use the class most of the time — Mf2\parse() handles the most common cases
# barnabywalters acegiak: what are you building with php-mf2?
# barnabywalters oh cool
# barnabywalters ah, so trackbacks/pingbacks from content marked up with mf2 will result in nicer looking comments too?
# acegiak pfefferle: with the current walker... does it assume the linkback is in teh content element? cause in my posts I've got them formatted accordign to http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#Markup
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /site-deaths (+171) "/* 2009 */ Added microsoft popfly 2009 death" (view diff)
# barnabywalters pfefferle: RE u- vs p-, it should be a matter of checking to see if the in-reply-to property is a nested microformat, and grabbing the URL if it is
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# barnabywalters pfefferle: http://indiewebcamp.com/in-reply-to is pretty sparse, we should add a “how to consume” section
# barnabywalters I’m stubbing one now
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# waterpigs.co.uk edited /in-reply-to (+730) "Stubbed in-reply-to consumption algorithm" (view diff)
# barnabywalters pfefferle: ^^^
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# waterpigs.co.uk edited /in-reply-to (+179) "/* How to consume in-reply-to */ clarified append, end state, added unique stage" (view diff)
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# friedcell wordpress or wordpress.com ?
# barnabywalters as silos go, wordpress.com is one of the better ones — excellent export options, you can attach your own domain
# cweiske tantek, http://piedtype.com/2013/05/21/spammers-use-trackbacks-pingbacks-and-reblogs/ - see the "reply from akismet"
# friedcell true
# tantek !tell caseorganic another citation for your pingback spam slide: http://piedtype.com/2013/05/21/spammers-use-trackbacks-pingbacks-and-reblogs/ via cweiske
# barnabywalters cweiske: I was playing around with neo4j a bit, looks like the degrees-of-separation querying might be pretty easy to set up
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# barnabywalters based on previous experience, I’d rather avoid encryption if at all possible
# barnabywalters (I tried to set up salmon once)
# barnabywalters well, cryptography in general
# barnabywalters cweiske: how do you do that? code sample?
# tantek.com edited /spam (+1560) "coming spam storm, move other brainstorms to their own section, add Twitter follows follows thought" (view diff)
# tantek barnabywalters - this is one idea I've mentioned in the past, and brought up again at the Tuesday SF IndieWeb meetup: http://indiewebcamp.com/spam#Twitter_follows_follows
# tantek also thanks for the nudge - I wrote up the coming spam storm as well: http://indiewebcamp.com/spam#The_Coming_Spam_Storm
# barnabywalters tantek: oh cool, thanks for writing it up
# barnabywalters aaronpk did something like that with his old wiki, right? anyone he followed could edit it?
# barnabywalters it’s just a matter of extending the degrees-of-separation into silos as well as the well-marked-up wel
# barnabywalters s/wel/web
# Loqi THROUGH ALL THE QUOTES http://loqi.me/88H
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# tantek skinny - see and read http://piedtype.com/2013/05/21/spammers-use-trackbacks-pingbacks-and-reblogs/ all the way through - including the blockquotes.
# tantek mcepl - check http://indiewebcamp.com/projects
# barnabywalters those are the people who implemented webmention *and* were bothered enough to document it — there are plenty more
# barnabywalters goodnight acegiak
# tantek !tell skinny see and read http://piedtype.com/2013/05/21/spammers-use-trackbacks-pingbacks-and-reblogs/ all the way through - including the blockquotes. This is why WordPress adoption is not the end-all be-all. Nor mass "adoption" in general. It's a misplaced desire.
# tantek mcepl - go ahead and add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people
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# tantek mcepl - add it to: http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth#Issues
# barnabywalters mcepl: is it the same issues as https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/issues/37?
# barnabywalters that one’s on python.org too
# barnabywalters mcepl: oh interesting
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@mola_io Corporate email addresses suck. My academic email addresses are gone. Contact emails on research papers giving SMTP 510. /CC @indiewebcamp (twitter.com/_/status/393387566990229504)
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aaronpk crazy about akismet blocking all pingbacks!! tantek you summarized it perfectly: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-10-24/line/1382624260
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# tantek aaronpk - in addition, even the attempts at innovation at WordPress, such as the "WordPress Like" (which I'd never heard of before) have become spammed: http://piedtype.com/2013/04/20/why-i-turned-off-wordpress-like/
# tantek oh dear, similar problem with "WordPress Followers" being spammed: http://piedtype.com/2013/04/12/issues-wordpress-needs-to-address/
# tantek and another post on "WordPress.com followers" that unintentionally hints at some possible solutions at the start (that rel-me verification to Twitter or FB would catch) http://onecoolsitebloggingtips.com/2013/04/09/wordpress-com-follower-management/
# JonathanNeal I never understood the point of pingbacks. Is it still something people value?
# tantek JonathanNeal - the first federated indieweb comments were done with pingback as the notification mechanism: http://tantek.com/2013/113/b1/first-federated-indieweb-comment-thread
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# JonathanNeal I'd love to know how you folks post comments on someone else's website without an API.
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@okokitsme RT @BuzzWorkers: #oxcars13 #freeculture could connect very well with #indieweb @dbravo, @okokitsme & @toret https://www.rebelmouse.com/GlobalSwarm/oxcars13/ (twitter.com/_/status/393466676643377152)
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# Loqi caseorganic: tantek left you a message 7 hours, 46 minutes ago: another citation for your pingback spam slide: http://piedtype.com/2013/05/21/spammers-use-trackbacks-pingbacks-and-reblogs/ via cweiske
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# JonathanNeal do you ping their page with a post request or what?
# tantek Jonathanneal - typical webmention handlers accept POST or GET. see http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention for a protocol description
# JonathanNeal Is there an example url I can hit with curl -i -s $target | grep 'rel="webmention"' ?
# JonathanNeal Okay, sure. `curl -i -s 'http://aaronparecki.com/' | grep 'rel="webmention"'` returns `<link rel="webmention" href="http://aaronparecki.com/webmention.php" />` neat.
# tantek.com edited /spam (+1875) "add WordPress Spam section so we can start documenting spammer tactics in the hopes of building better defenses for the indieweb" (view diff)
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