#indiewebcamp 2013-10-06

2013-10-06 UTC
#
@t #mozsummit #santaclara #IndieWeb hacking session: * 20:30 *tonight* * Lounge Space (Sedona) bring your laptop & domain (ttk.me t4SP4) (twitter.com/_/status/386648702661959680)
acegiak joined the channel
#
@devseo http://werd.io/entry/5243114abed7de2970c0b2b7/how-xoxofest-and-indiewebcamp-saved-me-in-a-way - How #xoxofest and #indiewebcamp saved me, in a way. (twitter.com/_/status/386655185046884352)
tantek, caseorganic and npdoty_ joined the channel
#
@veganstraightedge Mumble mumble #indieweb, @zeldman. /re http://www.zeldman.com/2013/08/07/reality-2-0/ (twitter.com/_/status/386670571796189184)
josephboyle, href, earplugs, caseorganic, tantek, npdoty, scor and jgraham909 joined the channel
#
bret did yahoo buy something today/recently?
jernst, tantek, josephboyle, tantek_ and raik joined the channel
#
aaronpk tantek: is the h-cite usage we talked about documented anywhere?
#
aaronpk with regards to displaying other people's content on your site, using h-cite with h-entry
#
tantek aaronpk - yes - on reply-context
#
tantek as that was the specific use case
#
tantek rather than just "other people's content on your site" which is a bit too abstract - not specific enough
#
aaronpk ah there we go
#
tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#Markup
#
aaronpk hm, I need to get this working on my own reply context before I try on my mentions feed
#
aaronpk what's the benefit of <div class="h-entry">
#
aaronpk <div class="p-in-reply-to h-cite">
#
aaronpk (having the p-in-reply-to and h-cite classes on an element inside the h-entry?
#
aaronpk it makes for a very strange looking h-entry
wardn_ joined the channel
#
aaronpk oh maybe there is some other problem
#
aaronpk ah I see... the h-cite takes the place of h-entry
#
aaronpk what happens if i'm citing an event?
#
aaronpk p-in-reply-to h-cite? then do I just include all the h-event properties inside the h-cite as normal?
barneybook|2 and squeakytoy joined the channel
#
tantek aaronpk - the example shows a reply context *inside* an h-entry, which it has to be in order for the p-in-reply-to to be inside the h-entry.
#
tantek there's only one h-entry - the post that *you* are writing and publishing
#
aaronpk that makes sense
#
tantek inside that is the p-in-reply-to h-cite
#
aaronpk but the h-cite ends up looking a lot like an h-entry
#
tantek of course it does, there's a lot of re-use of same meaning properties in microformats
#
tantek the key difference is h-cite vs. h-entry
#
aaronpk so if I'm citing an event, the properties of that h-cite would end up being the same as an h-event
#
tantek a cite is just a reference to something, an entry is the something itself
#
tantek a reference is a more generic concept than any specific type of post
gjones joined the channel
#
tantek so I don't understand what you mean by the properties of that h-cite would end up being the same as an h-event
#
tantek a reference does not have a start time nor end time
#
tantek there are properties in common yes, but only very common properties
#
aaronpk so would I embed an h-entry inside the h-cite then?
#
tantek e.g. name, url, author
#
tantek why?
#
tantek it's not your entry
#
tantek you're only *referencing* someone else's entry
#
aaronpk yes but I also happen to be displaying a version of their entry on my site (reply context)
#
tantek like a blockquote?
#
aaronpk sure
#
tantek so h-cite accounts for that with p-content
#
aaronpk but a little more complicated when it's an event
#
tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/h-cite#Properties
#
aaronpk ok that seems reasonable for short text posts
#
aaronpk but what about my RSVP to an event? (example: http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/09/25/2/pcloud)
#
tantek right - for events - and any other more "special" post type, everything about the post just goes in the content
#
aaronpk do I just drop all the event properties and glom them all into the content?
#
tantek I'm saying that's good enough
#
tantek for an RSVP
#
tantek now if you yourself have your own /events collection, which happens to include your RSVPs, then in that context I can see it making sense for you to list actual copies of the events, with perhaps u-uid to the original URL of the event.
eschnou joined the channel
#
tantek does that make sense how that's different?
#
aaronpk yes I think so
#
tantek btw - we should also write-up how to markup others' comments displayed on your posts - as those too should be h-cite not h-entry for all the same reason as in the reply-context case.
#
aaronpk yep, i'm going to have to fix my comment markup too
#
tantek we're definitely breaking new very-specific semantic ground here
#
tantek I don't think anyone has actually gotten all this to work before
#
tantek nor appreciated the subtle differences in semantics needed to use each page as its own API
#
aaronpk agreed. this is very subtle, and also underscores the need for good test/validator tools
#
tantek well the good test/validator tools are only useful when we've figured out what the right thing is for them to validate
#
aaronpk I'd really like to be able to verify my markup is correct, especially as I make changes, I'm worried about breaking things
#
tantek we have to verify manually first while we figure it out!
#
tantek if we haven't documented it, then we haven't fully figured it out
#
tantek documenting the proper markup must come before writing a validator for it
#
tantek otherwise it becomes magic knowledge hidden in the validator code
#
aaronpk I wish there was some way to have the validation code work as documentation too
#
tantek that path leads to source code / project monoculture
#
aaronpk yeah :(
#
tantek that's why we have prose specifications
#
tantek and then *multiple* implementations
#
tantek code is *horrible* for being documentation
#
tantek and entirely too fragile longterm
#
tantek that path leads to everyone reverse engineering code just to copy all its quirks, which the author may never have intended
#
tantek and that's a ton more work for everyone than implementing to a spec
#
aaronpk well I'm going to start by updating my reply context markup using h-cite properly
#
aaronpk then you can take a look at it, and if it looks good, we'll update the documentation accordingly
#
tantek code is good for live exploration and experimentation to see how things work (and break)
#
tantek well the reply-context markup already documents how to markup a very simple/minimal reply-context
#
aaronpk then I think I'm going to write a couple of tests for p3k to make sure my content can always be parsed like I expect
#
tantek but yes, it may help to provide a markup example of a more thorough reply-context like you have in p3k
#
tantek with p-content
#
tantek btw where are you calendar icons coming from?
#
aaronpk I got them from the noun project
#
tantek hmm - I haven't used any from there because of the attribution awkwardness
#
aaronpk yeah, I have a credits page where I list them: http://aaronparecki.com/icons
#
tantek and somehow I can't even find them in the element inspector
#
aaronpk oops, lost my background
#
tantek hmm - no calendar on that icons page
#
aaronpk oops!
#
tantek and in your rsvp - i can't figure out which element makes the calendar appear
#
tantek http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/09/25/2/pcloud
#
tantek Bootstrap is so div/span heavy and such a pain to try to debug
#
aaronpk <i class="icon-calendar large" style="font-size: 48px;"></i>
#
@kasperbaago The #owncloud project looks like a pretty nice way to #ownyourdata! http://owncloud.org (twitter.com/_/status/386769355771744256)
#
tantek aaronpk, yes I found that i element, just can't find what CSS rule is causing the icon
#
aaronpk ah
#
aaronpk it's a font icon thingy
#
aaronpk .icon-calendar:before { content: "\f073" }
#
aaronpk gotta run! night
tantek_ joined the channel
#
@kasperbaago @Stahlfest Det er https://diasporafoundation.org et åbent alternativ til #FB, hvor du #ownyourdata - desværre er det ikke blevet særlig udbredt :( (twitter.com/_/status/386770946490920960)
singpolyma joined the channel
#
@kasperbaago http://seafile.com/en/home/ also looks like a great #opensource alternative to the big guys http://seafile.com/en/home/ #ownyourdata @Stahlfest (twitter.com/_/status/386773500478115840)
tantek_, eschnou, vrypan, singpolyma, LauraJ and tantek joined the channel
#
@kasperbaago Drawing ideas that includes #pi - alot of them across the #internet #ownyourdata @ Edentic http://instagram.com/p/fHvJgNrxSS/ (twitter.com/_/status/386784932221435904)
andreypopp, tantek_, gjones, catsup, eschnou, bnvk and jschweinsberg joined the channel
#
Loqi [mention] http://barryfrost.com/posts/1 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE (webmention)
melvster and gjones joined the channel
#
@eduf IndieWeb Movement http://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/386839967403474944)
LauraJ, gjones, tantek, barnabywalters, josephboyle, melvster1, bnvk, npdoty, jschweinsberg, wardn_ and andreypopp joined the channel
#
@davelester What's a term to describe folks active in the #indieweb movement? They are yeoman farmers of the digital age. (twitter.com/_/status/386915272554082304)
squeakytoy2, jschweinsberg, LauraJ, jernst, eschnou, wardn_ and andreypopp joined the channel
#
@veganstraightedge Writing my dream blogging software (and maybe yours too)! #indieweb https://github.com/homesteading/homesteading-article (twitter.com/_/status/386949399592460288)
bnvk and shaners joined the channel
#
@Johannes_Ernst "The ground you stand on is liberated territory." From the license to Homesteading blogging application https://github.com/homesteading/homesteading-article #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/386964760144510976)
#
shaners I get a lot of compliments about my goto C00 license.
#
shaners PUBLIC DOMAIN
#
shaners Your heart is as free as the air you breathe.
#
shaners The ground you stand on is liberated territory.
#
shaners Something about it resonates with people.
abrereton, bnvk, tantek and tantek_ joined the channel
#
shaners good afternoon, tantek!
andreypopp and tantek joined the channel