#indiewebcamp 2013-09-26

2013-09-26 UTC
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tantek my sends were getting through but I wasn't seeing you aaronpk or Loqi's messages.
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Loqi who, me?
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tantek yes you Loqi. and the archives got them all.
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+589) "added really minimal RSVP event support the morning before the first XOXOfest indiewebcamp breakfast, note as supported, update rsvp feature task accordingly" (view diff)
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tantek hey benwerd - when were you going to Geekdom?
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benwerd tantek: I need to set off inside 15 mins or so from here
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tantek is wondering about the dresscode of the Personal Cloud / Data Ecosystem crowd
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benwerd is wearing the same dresscode he always wears: jeans, t-shirt, shirt
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aaronpk i'm very curious to hear how that goes!
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tantek what did people dress/look like when you were at there last time?
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tantek aaronpk - I'm very curious too
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aaronpk wonder if there will be any tweets to follow
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benwerd tantek: some are dressed up because they've just come from managerial work, others are in jeans & t-shirts
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aaronpk drop the event hashtag in here if you get a chance
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tantek alright I documented my hack of an rsvp implementation with all the awkward limitations: http://indiewebcamp.com/Falcon#Post_Types
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benwerd it's pretty informal
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aaronpk assuming there is one
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tantek hopefully encouraging a practice of something hacky working is better than nothing
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benwerd #pcloud
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tantek benwerd did you ever post an indieweb event of tonight's event?
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benwerd argh. I did not
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tantek raises an interesting question since there's already an Eventbrite
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tantek I mean, since there's an existing Eventbrite - it's probably bad form to POSSE to a new Eventbrite
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aaronpk i've been posting copies of events on my site, pointing them back to the canonical with u-url
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tantek aaronpk - so that's like reblogging an event
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tantek interesting
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aaronpk yes exactly
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aaronpk re-eventing lol
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tantek where should the webmentions go for RSVPs in that case?
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aaronpk http://aaronparecki.com/events/2013/09/19/1/quantified-self-pdx-show-and-tell
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aaronpk RSVPs to my URL are sent to my site. maybe there should be an attempt at pushing RSVPs upstream?
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tantek general question applies for reposts in general
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aaronpk there seems to be more value at aggregating all RSVPs than there is to aggregate all comments
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tantek if someone links to or comments on a repost - should the repost host forward the webmention?
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aaronpk well if you think about it, it would happen natually
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+244) "add Why section since I just did that for that reason" (view diff)
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aaronpk assuming the repost displays the comment
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tantek aaronpk - "naturally"?!?
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aaronpk a webmention is really just a realtime notification of a link from one site to another
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aaronpk oh I guess not then... following the trail of links in my head.
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aaronpk i'm hesitant to overload webmention with any semantics beyond "page A links to page B", it seems like it would be better to have anything more complicated elsewhere
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tantek aaronpk - agreed. I think it might be something that "repost" implementations are responsible for.
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tantek a "respost" MUST forward webmentions to the original
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tantek that kind of thing
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aaronpk well the webmention would technically be invalid
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aaronpk if I repost one of your things and someone links to mine, their page didn't link to yours so I can't say it did
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tantek so forwards won't work
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tantek then it's up to the original reply/rsvp
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aaronpk however I can say "my page received a new comment, here's a webmention ping again"
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aaronpk and your site could find all comments on mine and do with it what you will
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tantek is that better? or is it better to make it the responsibility of the site that is doing the reply in the first place?
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aaronpk the natural behavior of the web would be the way I described it. it would take extra effort to do/enforce the site creating the reply
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tantek aaronpk - I agree. E.g. what about reposts of resposts etc?
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tantek make it easier on the edges
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tantek and slightly more work for those receiving the webmentions
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tantek does bret have a name for his posting software/tool?
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+752) "/* IndieWeb Implementations */ appears I'm the fourth to implement RSVPs? That doesn't sound right. Who else has and hasn't added themselves here?" (view diff)
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tantek am I only the fourth person to implement RSVP posts?!?
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tantek I find that hard to believe
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tantek so every implementation of RSVP was present at the 2nd xoxofest indiewebcamp breakfast.
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tantek unless - did Barnaby implement RSVP?
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tantek alright, packing up to head to the event
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benwerd distinct platform owners who have RSVPed on my site are aaronpk, bret & npdoty
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tantek hopefully benwerd can post an event on his site that I can RSVP to
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benwerd ok ok will be my last act before I get out of here
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benwerd two secs
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tantek benwerd - can you add npdoty's implementation here? http://indiewebcamp.com/rsvp#IndieWeb_Implementations
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tantek insertion sort by date
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tantek.com edited /rsvp (+54) "/* IndieWeb Implementations */ earliest first sorted" (view diff)
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benwerd tantek: I need to fix my event URLs, apparently, now that the base URL system is fixed, but: http://werd.io/event/52437f31bed7de860cb7d768/personal-clouds-community-gathering-5
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tantek ooh
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tantek let's see if RSVP to you works
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werd.io edited /rsvp (+171) "/* IndieWeb Implementations */" (view diff)
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benwerd eek, better run. see you there, tantek
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@t going to tonight's Personal Clouds Community Gathering and speaking on #indieweb. http://werd.io/event/52437f31bed7de860cb7d768/personal-clouds-community-gathering-5 #pcloud (ttk.me t4SD2) (twitter.com/_/status/383026008427085824)
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tantek it worked!
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tantek http://werd.io/event/52437f31bed7de860cb7d768/personal-clouds-community-gathering-5
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tantek (manual webmention but still :) )
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tantek and with that I'm off
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@benwerd 'The #indieweb is Jennifer Connoly, yelling "you have no power over me!" to the David Bowie of siloed data' - why I can't speak anymore. (twitter.com/_/status/383031795572559872)
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@Helfi_Ananda RT @sevasev: #promo : diskon 15% (recuring) untuk pembelian paket reseller hosting enterprise. klik http://www.indieweb.biz u/info sms: 0819… (twitter.com/_/status/383032570625417216)
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tantek Presentations start at 19:00
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tantek Social hour started at 18:00
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ShaneHudson_ Just saw you RSVPed over WM, nicely done :)
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icco Man, I wish I saw this event announcement earlier. http://personalclouds5.eventbrite.com/ Sounds fun
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@t my talk at tonight's #pcloud on: * #indieweb: http://tantek.com/2013/220/t4/indieweb-principles-ownyourdata-selfdogfood-posse * #indieRSVP: http://tantek.com/2013/268/t2/personal-clouds-gathering-speaking-indieweb (ttk.me t4SD3) (twitter.com/_/status/383043987801903104)
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tantek shaners - reload ;)
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benwerd Tantek: Jay mentioning events made me grin.
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benwerd and posse.
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benwerd (We're being asked "what would make you quit [silos]")
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tantek benwerd - these answers are depressing
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tantek trying to figure out a way to tweak my words to shine rays of hope
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benwerd They are, but also opportunities
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benwerd Facebook isn't the phone network, it's AT&T
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benwerd I should be able to have T Mobile
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benwerd or Ben Mobile
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Loqi I agree
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tantek right - not have to just choose from among an oligopoly
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benwerd I think the server thing is a separate conversation
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benwerd discover ability is hard
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tantek discoverability is easy. search is hard.
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benwerd that. yes.
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tantek ah! someone finally said *transition*
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benwerd I'd like to go to iiw this year, if I can get the days free
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tantek benwerd - have you been before?
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benwerd the London one
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tantek there was a London one?!?
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tantek well - I'm burned out on the one here (in Mountain View)
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benwerd which is where I met harry
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tantek have noted why in IRC before
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benwerd ah
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tantek but you should go with fresh eyes and maybe you can get more out of it
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benwerd I may try, yes
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benwerd certainly agree that some if these conversations (& mailing lists) are tired
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tantek trying really hard to psych myself into an optimistic state before going up
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benwerd We are changing all of this
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benwerd we are the change
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benwerd and go!!!
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aaronpk just don't forget about all the awesome progress we've made this year!!
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aaronpk benwerd++
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Loqi benwerd has 8 karma
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@benwerd An introduction to #indieweb principles from @t. #pcloud https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383058130084429824/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/383058130084429824)
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aaronpk looks like the biggest winner is "my friends need to be there" https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383055796738592768
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@benwerd What would it take for you to stop using bigco cloud services? #pcloud https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383055796738592768/photo/1
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@benwerd Whoa. "The Internet failed." #pcloud #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/383060147624353793)
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benwerd Guys
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benwerd Everyone
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benwerd This is solved
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@snarfed_org RT @benwerd: Whoa. "The Internet failed." #pcloud #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/383062848357662720)
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@t Challenge to #pcloud meetup: Write your personal domain on your nametag/badge. At *every* conference. #indieweb (ttk.me t4SD5) (twitter.com/_/status/383066640679993344)
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bret !tell tantek, name is still up in the air. part of my schtick was trying to to do everything in Jekyll safe mode, so I think just referring to the project as Jekyll is fine for now (since that software is so flexible). but if you must, we can call it brekyll :p
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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bret I'm starting a task bot that can automate stuff like webmentions that would accompany Jekyll, I I would definitely name that
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bret I might just switch over to node/express though, I'm having a ton I of fun with that so far on a side project
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aaronpk ooh neat
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aaronpk maybe you can dig in to pump.io then!
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bret yeah, that would be a good place to start
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bret week before school is super busy though :(
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aaronpk ooh right
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bret I'm a bit weary to use pump for my main site though. I'll have to experiment more
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@rwang0 RT @benwerd: Whoa. "The Internet failed." #pcloud #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/383075475100151809)
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@MaribelLopez RT @benwerd: Whoa. "The Internet failed." #pcloud #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/383075664900804608)
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aaronpk hmm what markup should I use for a presentation? h-entry?
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aaronpk it's not the individual slides, just info about the presentation
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aaronpk maybe it's an event actually
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bret h-slide
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aaronpk maybe I should drop the whole presentations feed from my site
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aaronpk maybe they are actually events of type "presentation" http://aaronparecki.com/presentations
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aaronpk and then make my "presentation" object actually be presentations, like my slides from the w3c event http://aaronparecki.com/presentations/2013/08/08/1/files/slides/
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aaronpk sorry, thinking out loud
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@inboundnews How #xoxofest and #indiewebcamp saved me, in a way. http://werd.io/entry/5243114abed7de2970c0b2b7/how-xoxofest-and-indiewebcamp-saved-me-in-a-way (twitter.com/_/status/383082636169592832)
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@bobegan RT @benwerd: Whoa. "The Internet failed." #pcloud #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/383086355158675456)
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bret i like the presentations feed
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bret :p
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bret aww man, missed the JS meetup
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aaronpk aw
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aaronpk was there
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aaronpk :)
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bret i know i just saw your presentation feed
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bret !done watched simpsons episode about portland
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aaronpk heh, that would be interesting to have in here
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@kevinmarks RT @benwerd: Whoa. "The Internet failed." #pcloud #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/383102897128353792)
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@zdrojak RT @benwerd: Whoa. "The Internet failed." #pcloud #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/383103541033717760)
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@70sologist RT @benwerd: Whoa. "The Internet failed." #pcloud #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/383104862302380032)
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@d_3vil RT @benwerd: Whoa. "The Internet failed." #pcloud #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/383116798268157952)
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@AvramiSegal RT @benwerd: Whoa. "The Internet failed." #pcloud #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/383117286678462464)
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@jchochol RT @benwerd: Whoa. "The Internet failed." #pcloud #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/383118678453014528)
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Loqi tantek: bret left you a message 3 hours, 12 minutes ago: name is still up in the air. part of my schtick was trying to to do everything in Jekyll safe mode, so I think just referring to the project as Jekyll is fine for now (since that software is so flexible). but if you must, we can call it brekyll :p
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@fmu RT @benwerd: Whoa. "The Internet failed." #pcloud #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/383123848649900032)
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Jihaisse hello
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neuro` Hi Jihaisse
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wyomingplease hi there, folks! I am about to deploy Jekyll and start blogging once again. Is there any simple open source and decentralized comment system out there so I can put comments on the site?
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cweiske juvia
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cweiske https://github.com/phusion/juvia
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wyomingplease thanks, cweiske, I'll give it a shot
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@kevinmarks RT @t: my talk at tonight's #pcloud on: * #indieweb: http://tantek.com/2013/220/t4/indieweb-principles-ownyourdata-selfdogfood-posse * #indieRSVP: http://tantek.com/2013/268/t2/personal-clouds-gathering-speaking-indieweb (ttk.me t4SD3) (twitter.com/_/status/383146427733381120)
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tantek wyomingplease - I recommend pinging bret (here in the channel) about Brekyll - he's been successfully posting indieweb comments from his Jekyll install.
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wyomingplease thanks for the info, tantek, I am still exploring various options, although in the meantime I've come to the realization that comments aren't really mandatory - people rarely comment on anything that I write online, so… :)
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tantek wyomingplease - how about starting with adding yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people ? :)
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wyomingplease tantek - that would be a nice idea, I'll add myself right away :)
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cweiske wyomingplease, https://code.google.com/p/jskomment/
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wyomingplease well, I'll need to sort out my IndieAuth thing first… :)
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wyomingplease cweiske, I've come across it a couple of minutes ago, but thanks anyway :)
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@OnTheWebz RT @t: Challenge to #pcloud meetup: Write your personal domain on your nametag/badge. At *every* conference. #indieweb (ttk.me t4SD5) (twitter.com/_/status/383151718537502720)
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wyomingplease I'm looking at this IndieAuth thing, and while I completely understand the rationale behind the way it has been created, I'd like to ask for others' opinion of making a decentralized and self - hosted identity management solution which will basically enable people to make their own online profile which they can then use to sign in across the web, without the need to have a domain name of their own (although they can if
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wyomingplease they desire so). Would that be a good idea? It could later expand and become a commenting engine, etc. What are your thoughts on this?
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cweiske openid :)
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wyomingplease well, it's a bit… cumbersome, don't you think? :)
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tommorris wyomingplease: that already exists: Persona.
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tommorris the point of IndieAuth is it enforces a social preference towards owning your own domain
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wyomingplease tommorris - I know about Persona, but it looks like it relies on having an email address, right?
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tommorris Sure.
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wyomingplease well what I'm thinking about is having a place where you completely control your information when you sign in on the web, you can choose what pieces of personal info you want to send to the service, and you don't depend on any specific domain/email address/whatever, the service could basically send a secret token every time someone signs in somewhere, that kind of thing
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cweiske wyomingplease, openid lets you specify which information to give out
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wyomingplease cweiske - sure, but as I said, it tends to be a little bit cumbersome :)
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cweiske for whom?
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wyomingplease well, can you simply download a source of OpenID and then put it whenever you want?
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cweiske yes
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cweiske simpleid for example is a small self-hosted openid provider application
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cweiske runs on every php-enabled web server
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wyomingplease that's another story then...
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cweiske http://simpleid.sf.net/
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@rapella "The Internet Failed." https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 #pcloud #indieweb ht @benwerd (twitter.com/_/status/383217155182829568)
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@hrefhref RT @benwerd: Whoa. "The Internet failed." #pcloud #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/383218593640349696)
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@nickstenning @aaronpk Hey. Thanks for indieauth! Any current intent to support OpenID 2.0 delegation? (twitter.com/_/status/383260908862328833)
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peat Uh oh.
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aaronpk lol
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@aaronpk @nickstenning No current plans, given that most consumers support version 1. I'd be curious to hear use... #indieauth http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/09/26/1/indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/383270744437702656)
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@aaronpk @nickstenning There's an issue open specifically for PyPi support: https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth/issues/37 The error... #indieauth http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/09/26/2/indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/383271716387958785)
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@indieboxproject Indie Box Project slides from the presentation last night at the #pcloud gathering. http://indieboxproject.org/blog/2013/09/indie-box-slides-from-the-personal-clouds-meeting-last-night/ #pcloud #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/383293451866877952)
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@veganstraightedge @ev Wanna attend/sponsor @Farmhouse Conf 5 or #IndieWebCamp : Hollywood? http://farmhouse.la/conf/5 http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/hollywood (twitter.com/_/status/383298736220168193)
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@veganstraightedge @ev Wanna attend/sponsor @Farmhouse Conf 5 or #IndieWebCamp: Hollywood? http://farmhouse.la/conf/5 http://indiewebcamp.com/2013/hollywood (twitter.com/_/status/383299214714736640)
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shaners i haven't been around for a week or two. any major new developments?
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pdurbin some personal cloud meeting. how did that go?
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bret nothing to major I don't think
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bret shaners, you see that indieauth is now an openID provider?
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jernst I'm collecting the #pcloud meeting slides here: http://personal-clouds.org/wiki/Events:SF2013-09-25, still waiting for some
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shaners bret: yeah. i was still around for that. maybe only gone for a week. i dunno how time works.
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bret did any of the XOXO crowd do any indieweb stuff?
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pdurbin jernst: thanks!
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shaners bret: lots of indieweb talking and recruiting by me
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bret woot
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Loqi [mention] http://upon2020.com/blog/2013/09/the-indieweb-community-has-it-nailed-selfdogfood/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/comment (pingback)
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jernst Loqi is fast.
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aaronpk jernst: nice post!
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aaronparecki.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+165) "add jernst's post" (view diff)
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jernst aaronpk: thank you
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aaronpk fascinating to hear that bit about BMW!
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jernst actually frightening. Pro tip: never ride with a BMW engineer.
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hrrrthrrr.com edited /2013/Hollywood (+340) "added myself to indie web camp hollywood" (view diff)
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indiewebcamp-vis wow am i in my first irc chat?
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shaners indiewebcamp-vis: seems like it. be sure to add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc-people too
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peat jernst: I had a great time with BMW engineers. :D
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indiewebcamp-vis nick jmsmcfrlnd
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peat.org edited /IRC_People (+49) "Added "peat"" (view diff)
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tantek indeed, nice post jernst - thanks for the kind words! http://upon2020.com/blog/2013/09/the-indieweb-community-has-it-nailed-selfdogfood/
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jernst you guys identified the exactly right principles. in hindsight, they are obvious, but not before ...
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tantek.com edited /selfdogfood (+104) "/* posts */ add jernst post" (view diff)
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tantek jernst - it's been an evolutionary process for sure
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tantek jernst - I applied for an account on the personal-clouds.org wiki. Wonder how long it will take :)
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jernst tantek: extensive background check required. Couple years maybe.
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jernst Oh, fine, approved.
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peat hah
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tantek lol
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jernst I hate that process, but so far spammers have scored zero, which I can't say about previous mediawiki installations
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tantek jernst - indeed. so far spammers have scored zero on indiewebcamp.com too (requiring indieauth)
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tantek and no approval process so far
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aaronpk bets on how long until we get indieauth wiki spam?
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tantek jernst, perhaps you could consider permitting indieauth sign-in on the personal clouds wiki?
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tantek I'm sure aaronpk can point you to the necessary mediawiki plugin :)
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jernst you have a point there … domains are expensive, so people won't waste them. I do remember the milestone when I received the first OpenID spammer
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tantek would be good for personal-clouds to encourage use of personal-web-identity :)
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jernst Happy to do that.
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aaronpk should probably update the mediawiki indieauth plugin to do the first discovery step so it's not permatied to indieauth.com
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jernst Personal-clouds.org is actually provisioned via cldstr.com, so we'd have to create a suitable package, but that's not hard.
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@NYTimesKeke RT @gaelehi: Stiletto Mafia: Empire Trilogy # 2 by Terry J. Benton http://iam-indeed.com/?p=6305 #urban #Saga #GreatRead @TJBentonBooks #indieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/383338987861315585)
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tantek would be great to see that jernst, aaronpk
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tantek then we can start collecting a list of MediaWiki instances you can sign-into using IndieAuth
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tantek is showing off the WordPress Webmention plugin
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@indie69 RT @benwerd: Whoa. "The Internet failed." #pcloud #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/383346041808228352)
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@holden RT @benwerd: Whoa. "The Internet failed." #pcloud #indieweb https://twitter.com/benwerd/status/383060147624353793/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/383348816163770368)
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benwerd beginning to regret posting that slide
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caseorganic benwerd: lol
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bret benwerd always gettin into trouble :p
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aaronpk too late now
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benwerd this weekend, evanpro said that all of his projects start as bad jokes
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benwerd that resonated with me, because all of my projects also start as bad jokes
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benwerd I need better impulse control ;)
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aaronpk chicken
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benwerd came this close to writing a "goats" plugin
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aaronpk goats++
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Loqi goats has 1 karma
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benwerd rel="farmyard"
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bret indiewebfarm
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aaronpk shaners: you clearly need some goats for indiewebcamp at the farmhouse
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bret heh oh yeah
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bret indiewebfarmhouse
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aaronpk camp
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shaners http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlYlNF30bVg
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plevin i could watch those goats all day long
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aaronpk reidab: thanks to the microformats markup I added to calagator, I RSVP'd to the wherecamp party from my site! http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/09/26/1/wherecamp
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@liamzebedee @qrev @fnox See #IndieWebCamp for stuff pertaining to the #indieweb movement http://indiewebcamp.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/383377662623768576)