#indiewebcamp 2013-07-05

2013-07-05 UTC
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www.sandeep.io edited /responses (+192) "/* object of action */ rel="like-target" - inspired by the term "link target" and an attempt at a rel name that avoids the past tense of the verb." (view diff)
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@kthomason RT @singpolyma: "a domain name is cheaper than a phone number" -- http://blog.superfeedr.com/indieweb/ https://singpolyma.net/?post_type=actionstream&p=554933
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@benwerd @jarofgreen Here's a good intro to RSVP markup: http://indiewebcamp.com/rsvp #indieweb Definitely happy to help!
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Loqi [mention] http://werd.io/view/51d61706bed7deb12fc35a92 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/rsvp (pingback)
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benwerd Merry independence day, independence hackers
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@erictj Spent this July 4th beginning the exodus away from walled gardens, and towards self-hosted again. First service ditched--gmail! #indieweb
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bret quick JS question, can I retrieve JSON directly by a URL?
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bret Im still totally confused how some other ( https://github.com/bcomnes/bcomnes.github.io/issues/16 ) scripts are able to do it
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benwerd bret: it unfortunately depends on the platform a bit
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benwerd on some (like aaron's) you can just add .json to the URL as an extension
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benwerd others require the Accept: application/json HTTP header
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benwerd others still just have JSON-specific endpoints
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benwerd looks like, eg, the link in that github issue is a separate json endpoint
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benwerd is that what you were asking? :/
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bret Sort, of, more basic than that :p How do I turn this http://pingback.me/api/links?access_token=NTAxNTJmM2RmNzA4YTQ4ODllMWQ2NWJm&target=http://bre.tc&jsonp= into an object in my script
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bret i guess thats jsonp, not sure if thats what I need or not
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bret oh crap my token
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bret oh well, want my data public anyway
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benwerd bret: you can use json.parse with the string
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benwerd and depending on what kind of code you're running, you can get the string in different ways
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bret i was trying to do it with vanilla JS
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bret var name = json.parse('url') ?
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bret like that?
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benwerd no, you'll need to have actually read the string first
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benwerd from the url
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bret with XMLHttpRequest?
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bret or is there a more direct way to read the string
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benwerd try this:
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benwerd var xhr = new XMLHttpRequest();
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benwerd xhr.open("GET", url, false);
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benwerd xhr.send();
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benwerd somevar = json.parse(xhr.responseText);
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bret ok il play with that
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benwerd (I like jQuery for this sort of stuff, but if you're using vanilla JS, that *should* do it)
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bret part of it was just trying to learn JS better
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benwerd really cool way to do it :)
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bret this pinboard javascript pulls in outside data from another website without any httprequests
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bret i dont get it
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donpdonp http://donp.org/as/
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donpdonp it took a lot of plumbing to generate those '<li>'s :)
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bret hrm
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donpdonp 4sq cell phone -> 4sq.com -> pingback to donp.org -> php inserts json blob into redis bus -> irc daemon picks up on redis message, inserts into rethinkdb -> donp.org/as dumps contents of rethinkdb ;)
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donpdonp message bus all the things!
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bret whoa
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benwerd whoa
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donpdonp sorry for the lack of style, and its showing only a tiny subset of the available fields per entry
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donpdonp but its a start
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@xtof_fr #Austria - #patterntheory : le #fractalwiki a 10 ans.
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@t Two timely #indieweb posts for #July4th Independence Day
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neuro` Good morning (ugt).
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@benwerd RT @t: Two timely #indieweb posts for #July4th Independence Day
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@vrypan RT @t: Two timely #indieweb posts for #July4th Independence Day
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@cstanhope RT @t: Two timely #indieweb posts for #July4th Independence Day
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aaronpk tantek: still up for hacking tomorrow morning?
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tantek good evening - yes that would be great!
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@julien51 Most amazing IndieWeb post I've read in a long time: https://medium.com/surveillance-state/19a5db211e47 by @venportman
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tantek LULZ: "I’m more interested in using Medium to tell you not to use Medium."
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tantek !tell aaronpk when you're up, I'd love to chat a bit more about multireplies http://indiewebcamp.com/multi-reply and what a good way to present them is.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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pfefferle good morning
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pfefferle sandeepshetty: how do i markup a "mention" link for sandeep.io?
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tantek pfefferle - all links are mentions
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tantek so … <a href="http://sandeep.io">… :)
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pfefferle i hope that's how sandeep has implemented it… it is a very long blog-post :)
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pfefferle a bit too long for a reply
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tommorris made a bit of a breakthrough on the venues front. worked out a practical way to host my own venues database.
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tommorris have a blog post half-written on how to do it.
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pfefferle we need a logo for webmentions/pingbacks
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sandeepshetty pfefferle: just linking is a mention
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pfefferle sandeepshetty: ok, thanks…
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pfefferle does anyone know who made this icon http://avi.alkalay.net/software/blogicons/96x96/trackback.png ???
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tantek why does it need a logo?
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tantek IMO plumbing doesn't need a logo, it should just work
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pfefferle :)
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pdurbin "Noise is why the social web is still horribly broken" -- comment at https://plus.google.com/+AdeOshineye/posts/iRff8qohm6Z
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pauloppenheim.com created /User:Pauloppenheim.com (+56) "Created page with "== O HAI == You may know [http://pauloppenheim.com me]."" (view diff)
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@stpeter RT @julien51: Most amazing IndieWeb post I've read in a long time: https://medium.com/surveillance-state/19a5db211e47 by @venportman
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@flosoft RT @julien51: Most amazing IndieWeb post I've read in a long time: https://medium.com/surveillance-state/19a5db211e47 by @venportman
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 5 hours, 8 minutes ago: when you're up, I'd love to chat a bit more about multireplies http://indiewebcamp.com/multi-reply and what a good way to present them is.
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@zeank RT @julien51: Most amazing IndieWeb post I've read in a long time: https://medium.com/surveillance-state/19a5db211e47 by @venportman
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@julien51 Saying #indieweb is elitist is like saying we should feed the hungry with mcdonald's.
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@blaine @julien51 I agree with @lauraglu. The reason I'm not engaging is because I've never felt welcome prioritising UX in the #indieweb community.
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Loqi [mention] http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/07/05/1/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood (pingback)
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aaronpk since my tweets don't show up here...
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/353172536109961218
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@aaronpk @blaine I'm surprised! Most of our work has focused on UX first, protocols second. The reason for self-dogfooding... http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/07/05/1/
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pdurbin aaronpk: they do if you use the right hashtag ;)
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aaronpk mine don't
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aaronpk i think cause the search is running on my own twitter account
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@blaine @julien51 ... points to a certain insensitivity about how usable these things actually are in the #indieweb approach today.
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aaronpk so my own tweets don't show up in the search stream for #indieweb
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pdurbin oh
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aaronpk that or it's my own fault for not filtering out the stream properly. I had to do a major hack where a bunch of different search terms get rolled into the same twitter streaming API connection, so when I get a message I don't necessarily know what search it's for
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aaronpk interesting discussion going on between @blaine @julien51 and @lauraglu
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pfefferle indeed, but it's not that easy to follow the discussion on twitter :(
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aaronpk funny how that's mostly a UX problem :)
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@osiziqol Google Reader is dead. The answer is not another SPOF, but integrated indie aggregation. Crazy? Join us: #indiewebcamp (ttk.me t4Qo1) #answ
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pfefferle yes
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pfefferle btw. i like the design of several context uis, like yours http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/07/05/1/
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pfefferle what i don't like is that you can't markup the first post with an h-entry, only because the parser doesn't know what's the main h-entry
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pfefferle then
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aaronpk i intentionally left off the h-entry markup of the thing i'm replying to
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pfefferle but that's sad, because it is one
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barnabywalters pfefferle: you can, the replied-to h-entry should be a p-in-reply-to property of the parent
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aaronpk barnabywalters: that'd be interesting
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pfefferle but i think i will break most parsers with that
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pfefferle or better: the most implementations
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barnabywalters I’ve been marking up my notes like that for ~1month and haven’t had any problems
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barnabywalters the implementations should fix it if it’s a problem
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pfefferle and what if the discussion goes in both directions? for example if someone answers this post http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/07/05/1/
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barnabywalters give me a minute
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pfefferle than you have a source, the main answer and a second answer
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barnabywalters is playing with hama beads
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aaronpk example: http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/06/28/1/indieweb
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pfefferle which one is the entry to parse
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tommorris should finish writing my blog post about OSM data mangling with Mongo and Redis
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pfefferle exactly
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pfefferle that is the same problem i have with my blog
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pfefferle i want to display the whole conversation marked up with h-entrys, but how to point to the MAIN article/comment
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barnabywalters back, looking at that example aaron left
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barnabywalters these problem are all already solved, I just need to document them better
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barnabywalters in-reply-to h-entries are in-reply-to properties of the parent h-entry
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barnabywalters comments are comment properties
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barnabywalters so in that example there would only be one top-level h-entry on the page
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barnabywalters and all the others are children
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barnabywalters e.g. this one http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4QeMP9/
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barnabywalters has one in-reply-to and multiple comments
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barnabywalters aaronpk: pfefferle: where on the wiki did you look for comment markup examples, i.e. where should I document this?
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aaronpk barnabywalters: oh cool, I didn't realize child comment and in-reply-to was a thing
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barnabywalters aaronpk: I think I’m the only one using it, but I’ve discussed it here before and the comments markup is from tantek’s section about it on the mf wiki
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aaronpk cool
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pfefferle Bbiab
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@dawmusicmanumit @dpnem think it's coming back a bit for 2 reasons: 1. NSA 2. #TheGreatPump http://blog.opensourceplayground.org/2013/07/04/life-in-the-possibly-bright-future-of-the-federated-social-indieweb/ (ton of misinfo about GreatPump out there)
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aaronpk barnabywalters: have you made any changes to php-mf2 lately that would cause one of the u-urls to not be found?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: possibly, url pls?
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aaronpk not public yet
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barnabywalters sample code in a gh issue then?
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aaronpk here's the messy code https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/cc2a8b95bf8fa2642e0f
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aaronpk it parses fine here http://waterpigs.co.uk/php-mf2/
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aaronpk oh you've been quite busy with php-mf2. i should probably just update
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barnabywalters indieweb events?
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barnabywalters yeah, maybe try updating ;)
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barnabywalters php-mf2 almost always has the most recent version
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barnabywalters my endpoint, that is
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aaronpk how do I update with composer? composer update didn't actually do anything
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barnabywalters aaronpk: what does your require line in composer.json look like?
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aaronpk "mf2/mf2": "0.1.*"
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aaronpk and it looks like you're on 0.1.17 now
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aaronpk i can't tell which I have installed
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barnabywalters yep. hmm, look in composer.lock to see which you have installed
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barnabywalters (there should be an easier way to do this)
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aaronpk oh ok composer.lock
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aaronpk huh, v0.1.17
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barnabywalters okay, so what problem are you having?
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aaronpk well now that we've established i'm running the latest version, i'm super confused.
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aaronpk that gist parses correctly on your page, but I only see the pk.dev URL on my parsed version
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barnabywalters it may simply be that I’m not actually running the latest version
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barnabywalters checking for updates now
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barnabywalters okay, so it should be parsing both the url on the top line and the bottom one
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barnabywalters and it is on /php-mf2 but not elsewhere
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barnabywalters okay, confirmed that my endpoint is up to date
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@brianjesse @applepie @meangrape @al3x the #indieweb is made of people interoperating code they wrote: werd.io burt.io, sandeep.io - tw/fb are starbucks
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barnabywalters ahhh wait a sec
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aaronpk found a problem with my markup?
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barnabywalters okay, I haven’t released a new version in a little while, and my endpoint has dev-master
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aaronpk ah
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barnabywalters I’ll review changes and tag v0.1.18
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aaronpk sweet
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aaronpk ok so it's nothing wrong with my markup then?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: nope :)
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barnabywalters we really need to emphasise the other mf parsers out there so people can cross-reference
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aaronpk heh
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barnabywalters glenn has a public version of his, which is more comprehensive than mine, if a little behind
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barnabywalters okay, I pushed v0.1.18 — might take a few seconds to propogate
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aaronpk worked!
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aaronpk magic
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barnabywalters oh btw, html encoding of non e-* properties will be the only supported behaviour as of v0.2.0
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barnabywalters as per discussion with tantek on the wiki
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aaronpk great!
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tantek barnabywalters - great
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tantek.com created /copy (+77) "disambig" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /copywriting (+454) "stub" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /copywriting (+1524) "notes about how I present content on my own site" (view diff)
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aaronpk barnabywalters: have you done much with timezone offsets in PHP yet?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: nope
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benwerd makes a noise like Sideshow Bob on the rakes
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barnabywalters maybe check out https://packagist.org/search/?q=timezone
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aaronpk interested?
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barnabywalters aaronpk: possibly, why? got something in the works?
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aaronpk I need to find something or build something to handle this
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aaronpk the problem is the DateTime class requires named timezones, but I want to do this with just offsets
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pfefferle barnabywalters: Thanks for the answer! Will have a deeper look at you markup... I am curious if it is possible with the Wordpress comment system...
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aaronpk basically I want to work with dates just like I can with DateTime, but passing in "-0700" instead of "America/Los_Angeles"
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barnabywalters pfefferle: great! bear in mind it’s totally fine to put h-entry on the <body> or <html> elements if you need it to encapsulate everything
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pfefferle Thanks
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pfefferle Btw the only comment I have seen up to now is the example in the mf wiki
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pfefferle s/comment/comment example
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Loqi pfefferle meant to say: Btw the only comment example I have seen up to now is the example in the mf wiki
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barnabywalters yep, I thought I’d mentioned it on comment-presentation but apparently not
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barnabywalters aaronpk: would it be enough to create a mapping from numbers to strings/ DateTimeZone instances?
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aaronpk heh no
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aaronpk that changes too much
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aaronpk and DST changes it during the year, not to mention when they change when DST happens
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pdurbin benwerd: ouch
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benwerd pdurbin: I believe the phonetic spelling is "gnuuuuuurgh". Timezone offsets in PHP have that effect on me.
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barnabywalters yeah, I can’t find any existing DateTime extension library which makes dealing with offset timezones palatable
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aaronpk yea, they all assume named timezones
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aaronpk luckily purely offset-based handling is much simpler
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barnabywalters looks like your best bet is to roll your own
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aaronpk in the mean time i'm stuck publishing all my events as +0000
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pdurbin benwerd: sounds right
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aaronpk at least the time is correct (an event at 12pm portland time will show up as 7pm +0000)
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aaronpk rwaaaarrrr timezones
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aaronpk whoa I think I figured out how to do it with DateTime::createFromFormat
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@veganstraightedge The Pilgrim Protocol.
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aaronpk barnabywalters: I've also got a neat function here I should probably share
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aaronpk for printing strings like "Sep 6 from 10am to 6pm" given two absolute timestamps
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barnabywalters aaronpk: sounds good
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aaronpk that's the kind of code I only want to write once :)
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aaronpk also handling benwerd's lack of seconds and lack of timezone on this event is proving challenging :)
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benwerd well, y'know, my markup isn't set in stone
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aaronpk well if you did it, i have to assume others will too
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aaronpk specifically I'm talking about you publishing the start date as "2013-06-25 19:00" rather than "2013-06-25T19:00:00-0700"
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benwerd give me one minute
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aaronpk which isn't to say you're publishing it wrong
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benwerd because actually, iso8601 would make more sense
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aaronpk funnily enough, iso8601 defines like a dozen different formats for dates
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benwerd mm, standards.
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benwerd nonetheless, feel free to try and reparse now ;)
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barnabywalters I treat W3C-brand ISO8601 as canonical for datetime http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime
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benwerd ooh, and that's surfaced a timezone bug.
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benwerd reference "gnuuuuuurgh" above.
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benwerd something for later.
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barnabywalters in PHP, $datetime->format(DateTime::W3C)
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aaronpk gnuuuuuuurgh sounds about right
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aaronpk yea i'm definitely putting off handling parsing dates properly from other people's sites
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barnabywalters especially as they probably can’t be trusted
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benwerd I'm more than happy to paper it all over with strtotime for now
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barnabywalters the only trustable datetime for an incoming comment is the datetime you accept it
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aaronpk barnabywalters: this is for event start dates specifically, so it is the only thing that can be trusted
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barnabywalters ah, slightly more tricky
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aaronpk yea, strtotime for now :)
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aaronpk but I lose timezone data
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aaronpk well this should be interesting, pushing up now
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aaronpk well here's my first event published on my site http://aaronparecki.com/events/2013/09/08/1/indiewebcamp-uk-2013
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barnabywalters yay!
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Loqi yay!
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aaronpk now I just need to create one and RSVP to it on my site
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aaronpk bye for now!
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tantek just got very minimalist multi-reply reply-context presentation/linking working, e.g.: http://tantek.com/2013/157/t3/pdf2013-third-rail-coffee-during-pdf13-break
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tantek thanks aaronpk for the php reference help
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k (+44) "events are done!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /multiple-reply (+582) "/* Indieweb Examples of Multiple Replies */ implemented minimal multi-reply presentation support in Falcon / tantek.com" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /multiple-reply (+13) "/* Indieweb Examples of Multiple Replies */ Falcon" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (-119) "/* Working On */ implemented multi-reply presentation" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+449) "note multi-reply support, expand details on limitations, note Falcon's partial indieweb to indieweb reply support, but why I'm not using it yet on tantek.com" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /multiple-reply (+52) "/* Indieweb Examples of Multiple Replies */ explicitly note one of aaronpk's multi-replies as a particularly elegant example of multi-reply presentation and move it to the top of the list of examples" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieAuth (+413) "Why not WebFinger - record reply from aaronpk that convinced one particular webfinger advocate/requester" (view diff)
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tantek ok I'm pretty happy with that incremental improvement - yet another feature addition to my own site that is above and beyond what Twitter supports. yes! (successkid)
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tantek thanks in particular to aaronpk for first pointing out the problem of multiple-replies and documenting real world examples of where he tried to do so (e.g. with/on Twitter), and Twitter failed to handle his real world use cases.
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tantek made me realize I wanted/did that too, and now we've got two IndieWeb implementations (good enough to add to IndieMark :D )
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@leonoracelsooyw RT @t: that thing where you Publish Elsewhere &amp
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Loqi Syndicate Everything To A Silo (like Tumblr): #PESETAS #indieweb #ownyourdata (ttk.me t4Qn2)
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tantek aaronpk - here is the multi-reply on your site that seemed to only show/reference one in-reply-to original: http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/02/25/1/indieweb
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www.sandeep.io edited /responses (+38) "/* object of action */ Not to be confused with the target attribute." (view diff)
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