#indiewebcamp 2013-06-03
2013-06-03 UTC
morrocco_mole, tantek and melodie joined the channel
# 
melodie hi
# melodie is there somebody here for San Francisco?
# melodie s/for/from/ :)
# melodie thanks Loqi :)
# melodie well, I could also ask about someone living in San Francisco or around
# melodie hi tantek I was wondering if I could get some knowledge about how the life is there, from someone who does live there.
# melodie I have been reading a few pages on the web
# melodie yes, I have several questions
# melodie pdurbin talked a lot about #indiewebcamp and told me at #crimsonfu I might find people from SF here
# melodie I have several Url, one is http://linuxvillage.net a friendly bilingual forum
# melodie I am from the south of France atm
# melodie I don't use them to identify myself. :)
# melodie I mostly use some masterpass tools to generate strong passwords
# melodie I login with strong passwords which I don't even know.
# melodie so how is the life in San Francisco ? Would you say it is easy to install there or around, or difficult?
# melodie this is what I saw yes
# melodie how is it like to seek around further and use buses or such?
# melodie in my place I have my own house, and the mortgage is pretty low. I would eventuelly go to SF to work therefore I would try to avoid spending too much while not lacking confort
# melodie about food, are there markets and or open markets where it is possible to find farm productions?
# melodie at these markets would you say the prices are decent?
# 
tantek this is a pretty good list: http://togetherinfood.wordpress.com/s-f-farmers-markets-the-full-list/
# melodie :)
# melodie are you living and working right inside SF ?
# melodie are you a native? :)
# melodie pdurbin thanks! :)
# melodie tantek some websites say it is becoming cold starting 4 pm, and that there can be quite some fog, what about it?
# melodie I read here: http://jasonevanish.com/2013/01/17/25-things-i-wish-i-knew-before-moving-to-san-francisco and a large part but not all of here:
# melodie that can be nice.
# melodie which month is the coldest and how cold can it be?
# melodie doesn't like cold
# melodie is it cold and dry or cold and wet due to the sea nearby?
# melodie pdurbin good idea! :D
# melodie would you send me one?
# melodie tantek how did people know before personal computing popped up? :)
# melodie I'm going to try Wikipedia for the time being, just incase they have pointers
# melodie pdurbin I have not said I am moving. I might eventually get a job there. So I want to see if I would feel like I can go there
# melodie here it says: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco#Climat
# melodie the temperatures can be
# melodie 10 et 15 °C during the day in winter, and 5°C during the night
# melodie for my scaling, it's nice, not cold :)
# melodie here we can have several days in a row with -15, sometimes -5 to -10 during 2 to 4 weeks in a row.
# melodie 5°
# melodie 5ºC = 41.000ºF
# melodie -10 : 14.000ºF
# melodie tantek do you confirm the Wikipedia stating?
# melodie tantek I had a look at the webpages related to what indiewebcamp website presents, your hcard page, and the one of the other author
# melodie there is something incredible about this, is there is not one single standalone application for managing contacts which exists as Free software, and can at same time import and export successfully contacts from other free software applications
# melodie in the paste I have used "Contacts" from the pimlico project, but when the project was bought by... not sure, perhaps Intel ? no one forked the code to make it continue.
# melodie and other apps I tried are not close to be light and simple as this one was.
# 
pdurbin melodie: a recent discussion about managing contacts: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-05-31#t1370024722
# melodie pdurbin thank you. I look
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# melodie all this looks to me like a hammer just to manage adresses
# melodie I use Evolution because it is what was the closest to get the categories back along the adresses from Contacts which does not work anymore after the numerous updates of the system. but I'm not satisfied with it, because besides I use Sylpheed as a mail client.
# melodie pdurbin the project has disappeared completely, not even a little piece of code. too bad
# melodie pdurbin how do you use YAML?
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# melodie I have to go... thanks to pdurbin who brought me here, and thanks to tantek for all the answers! :)
# pdurbin I looked at http://abook.sourceforge.net a while back but meh
# tantek pdurbin - I think the reality is that a good addressbook app is so hard, and has so many moving pieces / interactions, that it anyone attempting to design one either settles for something simple/minimal (most attempts we see), or overdesigns it so much that it never ships or gets cumbersome, or ...
# 
bret this one is kind of neat: http://ppladdressbook.org/
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# sandeepshetty is adding microformats to sandeep.io.... but does not like the idea of having to change his design to do so....
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# 
@totally_unknown Finally moved all git repos from GitHub to GitLab #bitplaces #ownyourdata
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# Garbee sandeepshetty, You shouldn't need to change your design at all.
# Garbee It may require some reworking of the selector targets in your CSS/JS depending on how things are currently setup.
# Garbee But your design should still be fully compatible besides some possible targeting issues.
# sandeepshetty The markup for the post doesn't have any info about the post
# sandeepshetty .. author
# sandeepshetty so nothing "visible" to add p-author to
# Garbee Oh, this is more of a personal twitter feed rather than a blog.
# Garbee Ok yea, that is an issue...
# sandeepshetty It's actually a little bit of both..
# Garbee Yea, this does need a theme change. :P I never realized no author informtion was present.
# 
barnabywalters sandeepshetty: most sane h-entry parsers will look for a root h-card if no p-author is found
# barnabywalters so on sandeep.io you can just mark up your h-card at the top
# sandeepshetty so even if it's outside the h-entry
# sandeepshetty ... ?
# barnabywalters there’s also an include pattern you can use which few parsers support but worth putting in there for the future
# barnabywalters which would allow you to use your root h-card as the author property for all your h-entries
# sandeepshetty that's interesting... where can I find info on that?
# barnabywalters it’s something on the todo list for php-mf2
# barnabywalters I think glenn’s node parser handles it
# sandeepshetty anyways.. I just pushed something with some design changes... working on fixing this now: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://www.sandeep.io/29
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: looking good! what’s up with the url?
# sandeepshetty fix it now..
# sandeepshetty *fixed
# sandeepshetty is there a way for me to use that gravatar as the u-url for the p-author
# sandeepshetty I guess another way of asking the same thing is can I just add the h-card to same tag as my h-entry?
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: yep, with <span class="p-author h-entry">
# barnabywalters then that span becomes a child microformat
# barnabywalters and and u-url, p-name, etc below that become properties of the child
# barnabywalters you could also use implied properties
# barnabywalters for simple h-cards involving only a name, url and/or photo
# sandeepshetty sorry did not understand (given my markup)... Where can i read up on this?
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: Marked up the h-card at the top: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://www.sandeep.io/29 is there a way to exclude the photo from the h-entry?
# barnabywalters I think that’s a php-mf2 bug/feature
# barnabywalters thanks to implied properties, it’ll look for an image and make that the u-photo
# barnabywalters but I think it’s overenthusiastic
# sandeepshetty yeah :)
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# sandeepshetty so from what you were saying earlier the current implementations of webmention will pick up the first h-card as the author?
# barnabywalters certainly I think that is the case — they’ll look for a p-author on the h-entry, then fall back to the root one
# barnabywalters not sure I’m doing it for my reply contexts yet
# sandeepshetty is that a patter with microformats in general?
# sandeepshetty s/patter/pattern
# barnabywalters yes, I think so
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# 
Loqi [mention] http://www.socialbrite.org/2013/06/03/calendar-of-nonprofit-conferences-june-2013/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page (pingback)
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# sandeep.io created /User:Sandeep.io (+869) "Got around to signing in from my indieweb domain." (view diff)
# sandeep.io edited /User:Sandeep.shetty.in () "(-805) Replaced content with "See [[User:Sandeep.io]]"" (view diff)
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# sandeepshetty Looks like all set to send webmentions. Does the date have to be a specific format? http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://www.sandeep.io/29
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: see http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#Date_and_time_parsing for info about mf2 datetime parsing
# barnabywalters it’s a little obscure and something I’ve been meaning to write up in a clearer, guide form for a while
# sandeepshetty Thanks...
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# barnabywalters basically, <time class="dt-published" datetime="YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:SS±TZ">human readable</time> is the holy grail ;)
# barnabywalters I’m still considering this: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1176/
# barnabywalters schema.org is funny
# 
tommorris this is what comes out of the RDFa on my site: https://gist.github.com/tommorris/5474597
# barnabywalters looks good — not sure I’m “S”emantic web-aware enough to see the joke ;)
# barnabywalters +1 for sane usable json — is that JSON-LD?
# barnabywalters woo!
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# marjolein is away: getting some fresh air and groceries
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# 
aaronparecki.com edited /Category:building-blocks (+17) "/* Posts */ link to [[authorship]]" (view diff)
# barnabywalters if I know it’s on the wiki I point them toward that
# 
aaronpk ok there we go, now a couple things link to [[authorship]]
# tommorris or http://indiewebcamp.com/Special:NewPages if you prefer HTML ;)
# sandeepshetty tantek, barnabywalters : I moved the h-card to the top because I couldn't sanely add it to h-entry given my markup: https://gist.github.com/sandeepshetty/a178561ecbeb7e03bf78
# tantek sandeepshetty - please see: http://indiewebcamp.com/authorship
# sandeepshetty tantek: I saw that... was asking if there was a way to do with inside the h-entry given my markup (gist)
# sandeepshetty That's something I have to fix...
# sandeepshetty tantek: can you edit the gist so I can see the diff?
# sandeepshetty :)
# barnabywalters argh why is realtime collaborative editing and forking of actual webpages still not a thing
# barnabywalters wasn’t there a demo at a previous IWC of something like that?
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# sandeepshetty yeah I see them as part of the content... like on twtter..
# tantek concept came from me venting at lunch during OSBridge: http://tantek.com/2011/174/t1/read-fork-write-merge-web-osb11
# sandeepshetty BTW, I like include pattern http://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern it reduces a lot of redundancy...
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# barnabywalters tantek: speak of the devil — I’ve just deployed that for VÃsar and am writing a blog post about deploying it to heroku using node instead of Sinatra
# barnabywalters SFW
# sandeepshetty I should be able to see it...
# barnabywalters tantek: what do I need to add to it?
# sandeepshetty I see 2 forks from you
# barnabywalters I don’t actually know much about the project — currently trying to wrap my brain around it
# 
tantek.com edited /Smallest_Federated_Wiki (+129) "stub, provide context, session notes only (for now), see also" (view diff)
# sandeepshetty tantek: is this the one: https://gist.github.com/tantek/955479f5d00e5d313650/revisions
# 
@sandeepshetty "The Read Write Web is no longer sufficient. I want the Read Fork Write Merge Web." -@tantek http://tantek.com/2011/174/t1/read-fork-write-merge-web-osb11 #indieweb
# sandeepshetty I just followed the link to the forks and saw the revisions...
# barnabywalters woah, the tantek-head in that read-fork-write-merge note is pretty big — is that old styling?
# sandeepshetty ah didn't realize I could use the alt text... my bad... I was skip reading the microformats stuff... is that something I would have found if I read it properly?
# tantek.com edited /Smallest_Federated_Wiki (+327) "stub Project Description with questions" (view diff)
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: to be fair the mf2 stuff is not at all beginner friendly yet
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# barnabywalters tantek: what is the process for turning the mf2 brainstorming into more concrete pages e.g. the ones classic microformats have?
# tantek barnabywalters, the simple/introductory examples at the top of http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2 do show how to use img alt though
# barnabywalters tantek: is it something we can help with? if so how?
# tantek.com edited /projects (+31) "/* hacks */ link SFW to main article, fix otherhacks heading" (view diff)
# barnabywalters certainly I feel that we have enough experience publishing h-card and h-entry to give them their own pages
# barnabywalters explaining actually what all the properties mean
# tantek do you see how http://microformats.org/wiki/hCard is structured? (at least mostly, I'm still working my way through redesigning/updating the document)
# barnabywalters I have been meaning to publish a series of blog posts covering some basic mf2 usage in guide/tutorial form for a while
# barnabywalters inspects
# barnabywalters not an awful lot — I’ve read W3C and mf.org specs, developers.whatwg.org is my go-to reference for html5 but not sure it counts as a spec in terms of structure
# barnabywalters never actually looked closely at how they were structured
# barnabywalters agreed on all points, esp intimidation
# tantek I've been explicitly redesigning/restructuring http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard as an example of how to do it right (friendly, quickly usable) and avoid all those problems.
# barnabywalters tantek: writing SFW-on-heroku-node article right now, I’ll get back to you in a min
# tantek.com edited /Smallest_Federated_Wiki (+709) "add to Project Description based on summary on projects page" (view diff)
# tantek I just updated http://indiewebcamp.com/Smallest_Federated_Wiki with a bunch of links/context
# tantek.com edited /Smallest_Federated_Wiki (+295) "link to posting of lunch conversation inspiration" (view diff)
# barnabywalters tantek: I hang out in their G+ meetups sometimes — last time Ward said he was planning on doing IWC every other year as it interferes with a traditional family holiday time IIRC
# sandeepshetty tantek: just saw the alt example... like I said my bad for skip reading... plus I was so focused on making the name inside the .media-heading part of the h-card that I dodn't think of anything else...
# barnabywalters tantek: I think he said his compromise was to alternate
# sandeepshetty a lot! just pushing these changes and then onward to sending a webmention :)
# 
waterpigs.co.uk edited /Smallest_Federated_Wiki (+734) "/* Project Description */ Added links to sandbox, videos, deployment guides" (view diff)
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# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: I'm guessing the keyword here is one?: "has but *one* child element that is an image" - http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats-2-implied-properties#hyperlinked_image_and_name_photo_url_properties
# sandeepshetty if that's the case I'm guessing this needs a count() check? https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/blob/e752d2d0e556c3d20c2a9eb7e001aef95ce0f637/mf2/Parser.php#L556
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# sandeepshetty Re the weird photo property I'm seeing here: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http://www.sandeep.io/29
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: yes that is the one
# barnabywalters I think I’m currently checking for one *image* child, not one child which is an image
# barnabywalters yes, a quick test shows that is what’s happening
# sandeepshetty so a count() check shoudl fix it right?
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: no, I have to change the xpath too
# barnabywalters actually the phrasing on the wiki is unclear, both my current implementation and the correct logic could be inferred from it
# barnabywalters fixed
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# sandeepshetty on pin13?
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# barnabywalters barnabywalters: I fixed the phrasing on the wiki
# barnabywalters currently writing a sad path test case and fixing in php-mf2
# sandeepshetty awesome
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: so pin13 is you?
# barnabywalters aaronpk: sandeepshetty: pushed to v0.1.14 with tests and fixes
# barnabywalters currently updating my UI (taking a while because I’ve been working out of a majorly changed branch and I have to reinstall a bunch of stuff)
# sandeepshetty That commit reminds me that I need to do a deep dive into xpath soon...
# sandeepshetty so for sending the webmention, I was thinking I'll just take the (html) rendered markdown and look for a tags in it.
# sandeepshetty instead of regex
# barnabywalters aaronpk: same
# sandeepshetty and your using this css->xpath thing you mentioned?
# barnabywalters okay, http://waterpigs.co.uk/php-mf2 is updated to v0.1.14 with the above bugs fixed
# aaronpk no I'm using a regex actually https://github.com/aaronpk/mention-client
# barnabywalters so that’s 30 mins turnaround including working on other stuff and reinstalling dependencies — not too bad, but want to get it better
# barnabywalters aaronpk: to master also
# sandeepshetty :)
# barnabywalters tags are for composer
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: ah I was going to dive mention client in a bit...
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: don't see any h-entry stuff...
# sandeepshetty unless $sourceBody is just the h-entry
# sandeepshetty which means $sourceBody is not passed it will send to all ping on $sourceURL?
# sandeepshetty argh... my hand is not moving as fast as my ming...
# sandeepshetty s/ming/mind
# sandeepshetty I like the $sourceURL approach... makes the lib complete external and loosely coupled
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# sandeepshetty yeah that would be nice
# sandeepshetty so what is this css->xpath thingy?
# tantek note that when in doubt - please consult the parsing spec for precision: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#parsing_for_implied_properties
# barnabywalters tantek: php-mf2 now follows that spec, in a different document the wording was less rigid
# barnabywalters the confusion was between one child image element and one child element AND that child is an image
# barnabywalters as opposed to two child elements, one of which was an image
# barnabywalters the parsing spec is clear, the other document wasn’t, and php-mf2 was implementing the wrong one
# sandeepshetty it's picking up my gravatar as a photo for the post
# barnabywalters tantek: I probably read the prose document before the parsing spec, implemented it (working) then never wrote tests against the stricter spec
# barnabywalters wait, what
# barnabywalters tantek: I believe sandeepshetty’s markup has changed since he discovered the bug
# sandeepshetty what your seeing now is the latest version..
# sandeepshetty not making any changes now to the markup...
# sandeepshetty it's got all the changes suggested by tantek
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: and parses beautifully :)
# barnabywalters any chance of a higher resolution datetime?
# sandeepshetty yep will be doing that soon... makes no sense without a timezone
# barnabywalters great stuff
# barnabywalters I’ll try replying to one of your notes, see what the reply context looks like
# sandeepshetty no wait.. i haven't implemented webmention yet
# sandeepshetty once I'm done I'll send you a :like: to the gurdy post
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: :like: ? why the colons?
# barnabywalters and how are you marking that up/publishing it?
# sandeepshetty see the 5th use-case here: https://github.com/converspace/recentchanges/blob/master/README.md
# sandeepshetty I'm experimenting :)
# sandeepshetty just my way of sending a like
# barnabywalters sending? so does it have a URL on your site?
# sandeepshetty it will... it'll be a post with your post url as the in-reply-to and the :like:
# sandeepshetty tell me more :)
# aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k#Favorite_.2F_Like_.2F_Star_.2F_etc (sorry for the icky url)
# barnabywalters aaronpk: looking forward to seeing how you’re laying them out!
# aaronpk new URL scheme: http://pk.dev/something/2013/06/02/092308/slug (note the full timestamp in the URL)
# sandeepshetty why do you need a new url scheme?
# sandeepshetty the webmention is taken care of by a regular post
# sandeepshetty and you can always tag it with #like/#fav?
# sandeepshetty sorry din't understand...
# sandeepshetty is this like a diff post type?
# sandeepshetty is there a rel="like"?
# sandeepshetty That's interesting... a use case for time in the url
# sandeepshetty i might just go with date+timestamp when i drop the db
# 
@TerroirCamp @ludovicroif @JSeillier : il y a plusieurs mondes numériques ;-) #dflab #indieweb #opensource
# sandeepshetty not in the url but in the storage
# sandeepshetty doesnt the file time have that already?
# barnabywalters aaronpk: this is the reason I’m taking the combined DB and filesystem approach — the filesystem does what it does best (storing files) and the DB does what it does best (flexible querying)
# sandeepshetty ok I still don't the reason for differenet post types?
# sandeepshetty anyones yet.. I remember tantek telling me it's a personal preference..
# sandeepshetty not sure about the other..
# sandeepshetty IIRC, I think tantek also mentioned ux... user centered design...
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: to me that is just the addition of tags.. #sleep #weight
# sandeepshetty for example I have bookmarks: http://www.sandeep.io/bookmarks/
# sandeepshetty if they are files on disk they should be time ordered right?
# sandeepshetty is the problem of going through the other types a big deal in terms of time?
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: IIRC you can’t rely on that information sticking around — copy/paste the file or migrate it and it’s gone
# sandeepshetty with the hybrid approach like barnabywalters, the db can give you that easily
# barnabywalters aaronpk: an admirable goal!
# sandeepshetty I was thinking of going with sqlite for the index
# sandeepshetty AFAIK, you already have scripts to build indexes/frontpage...
# sandeepshetty adding it to sqlite is just an extenstion of that
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# barnabywalters aaronpk: if you would like to give a hybrid approach a go, I’ve open sourced the library I’m using
# barnabywalters it’s a bit weird and limited, but I’m liking it so far
# sandeepshetty aaronpk, barnabywalters: just remember I had bookmarked this a while ago http://code.google.com/p/phpquery/
# barnabywalters then again, going with redbean would probably give you better results
# aaronpk here's my current filesystem for notes: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3692/8939025445_ed4d8c9807_o.png
# aaronpk here is the new format i'm considering http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7406/8939031907_761c56e10e_o.png
# sandeepshetty barnabywalters: Where is your lib? https://github.com/barnabywalters?tab=repositories
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: http://github.com/taproot/librarian
# sandeepshetty ah yes you have an org
# barnabywalters https://github.com/Taproot/librarian/blob/master/librarianApiNoodling.php is probably the most interesting bit
# sandeepshetty oh... you've gone all NoSQL
# barnabywalters nope, all PDO :)
# sandeepshetty now that redbean ref makes sense..
# sandeepshetty I meant there's no schema right?
# sandeepshetty oh wait my bad...
# sandeepshetty missed the setup...
# barnabywalters sandeepshetty: roughly speaking. You specify which properties you want indexed. They’re independent of the actual data
# sandeepshetty quick back to my original question... aaronpk: why the diff posts then?
# barnabywalters I’m running it in my test environment, almost ready to push live
# barnabywalters just need to get /articles and /music using it
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# sandeepshetty and why do you have the distinction between article/notes?
# aaronpk briefly described here http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k#Notes_vs_Articles
# aaronpk and some other people wrote about their distinctions here http://indiewebcamp.com/Semantics_Of_Article-Note_Distinction
# sandeepshetty I've seen the later.. Have added my take to it as well..
# sandeepshetty Is the distinction based on the fact that your writing one as html and one as plain text?
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# sandeepshetty based on where it is syndicated to?
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# sandeepshetty write that's what I mean with my first question...
# sandeepshetty s/mean/meant
# sandeepshetty I write in markdown and just syndicate markdown to twitter...
# aaronpk [Example Site](http://example.com) is quite possibly the ugliest thing around
# sandeepshetty so where it's syndicated doesn't matter and since I write both long-form and small updates in markdwon I don't see the difference..
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# aaronpk at least mediawiki has a somewhat sane link syntax: [http://example.com Example Site]
# sandeepshetty sure I'm looking to replace markdown but I guess it's because I write in it and don't mind syndicating it (or hand-editing what I don't like) I don't see the diff between the two
# sandeepshetty is busy implementing webmention on sandeep.io
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# sandeepshetty tantek: What's a good example of post types that *need* custom UX?
# sandeepshetty is :( because indieweb libs he can reuse use OO :p
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# sandeepshetty plus there's so much noise!
# sandeepshetty Since PHP 5.3 (closures) I haven't felt the need to use OO and have been building a small collection of non-OO libs: https://github.com/phpish/
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# sandeepshetty tantek: In case you missed it: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-06-03#t1370287852
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# tantek for: "building a small collection of non-OO libs: https://github.com/phpish/"
# tommorris aaronpk: so, my posting UI - http://cl.ly/image/1f09252g3l1M - see the "twitter" tickbox. there may be more of them soon. ;)
# tantek sandeepshetty - I'm building a small collection of non-OO functions: https://github.com/tantek/cassis
# barnabywalters aaronpk: big advantage of that technique is that you get autoloading
# barnabywalters (in PHP)
# barnabywalters interesting, why?
# tantek sandeepshetty re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-06-03#t1370287852
# tantek aaronpk - delayed thanks! re: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-06-03#t1370288892
# tantek aaronpk - make sense? http://indiewebcamp.com/posts#New_Post_Types
# tantek sandeepshetty - does this address your question(s) about post types? http://indiewebcamp.com/posts#New_Post_Types
# sandeepshetty scrolls up
# sandeepshetty tantek: Re cassis, I have it on my today to look into it for stuff like the newbase60 funcs and I remember thinking "woah! those comment hacks look interesting" when I saw it first
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: php now has namespaces, so you don't need classes for namespaces anymore.
# sandeepshetty inheritance is evil :D
# sandeepshetty lots of coupling...
# sandeepshetty prefer composition
# sandeepshetty is looking at tantek.com to see the ux difference between article, note, comic
# sandeepshetty agress with aaronpk: the highlighting of the linked line numbers in the IRC logs is cool!
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: are you doing the highlighting on the server-side?
# sandeepshetty it doesn't work when I click on an anchor after the page has loaded but that might be a common use-case... I miss it though...
# sandeepshetty I meant *might not*
# sandeepshetty aaronpk: RE inheritance... you can do with closures... create a func that returns a func
# sandeepshetty tantek: I can't seem to find articles from your homepage...
# sandeepshetty so the comic and note don't look that diff..
# sandeepshetty except for the inline img
# tantek also, here's an example article: http://tantek.com/2013/001/b1/twelve-blog-post-writing-tips
# sandeepshetty On your site they don't look that different to me...
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# sandeepshetty the markup/micoformats might be different...
# sandeepshetty but does it need to be?
# sandeepshetty you mean the object "title" by "textual post content"?
# sandeepshetty BTW, it's annoying that you can't click the object... (I was trying to inspect)
# sandeepshetty *right-click
# sandeepshetty I was trying to right-click on it to inspect the dom but it's all just dead space.
# sandeepshetty I'm ok if it's not clickable...
# sandeepshetty just saw the child nodes of object ..
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# sandeepshetty tantek: All that stuff inside object is not visible... so why not just regular html with display:none?
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# sandeepshetty (by regular I mean not-object)
# 
JonathanNeal Thanks tantek. I hear you have banned stakes to burn me at.
# sandeepshetty tantek: Couldn't you do the same with hidden divs?
# sandeepshetty I was thinking it's *hidden* in the same way the object children are: to browsers but not to aggregators, (not sure about) search engines, (not sure about) non-visual user agents
# sandeepshetty rather i don't understand why it's a worse solution... looking to learn why it's worse...
# JonathanNeal What is the primary difference between the web and the indie web?
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# JonathanNeal So, the indie web is the web as built and contributed to by individuals.
# tantek who are typically /creators who are /selfdogfooding
# JonathanNeal Cool, I suppose I qualify based on my own expectations then.
# JonathanNeal Oh, maybe I don't then. I see.
# tantek JonathanNeal - here's a good test: add yourself to http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC-people
# JonathanNeal I build things for everybody, but I don't market myself.
# JonathanNeal microformats stuffs
# JonathanNeal And here I was using http://humanstxt.org/
# JonathanNeal It's a violation?
# JonathanNeal It's something for developers by developers to express themselves.
# JonathanNeal Not in the same way. Like "animal style" is to In&Out, it's the well known off menu item.
# JonathanNeal I've never seen you so opinionated. Interesting. Well, I'll go rel myself.
# tantek it's more like colophon.txt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colophon_%28publishing%29
# JonathanNeal It's about having fun, it's named like robots.txt
# JonathanNeal it's too indie for standards
# JonathanNeal Is this a room to discuss <subline> and <main> in too?
# JonathanNeal Or the thought experiment of dropping all <div> elements for the more agnostic <span> element, intensifying our reliance on proper class name usage?
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# JonathanNeal I'll take that as a yes, citing Thomas Moore.
# sandeepshetty !tell tantek: Makes sense re fallback content vs hidden.
# JonathanNeal ?tell tantek: Really? Protocol required? https://indieauth.com/auth?me=jonathantneal.com
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# reidab I thought the whole point of humans.txt was giving the people who did the work credit in a context where they were making a non-personal site
# reidab like, giving the designers and developers credit on a commercial site
# tantek because the powers-that-be that decide about the commercial site refuse to let them build a /colophon.html page that describes all the humans.txt content
# reidab that's kinda how i see it
# Loqi DESCRIBES ALL THE HUMANS http://loqi.me/7Ny
# reidab but I agree that having a colophon link is more appropriate
# reidab :)
# reidab or just HTML comments
# reidab or meta tags
# reidab oh right
# sandeepshetty I like how the team page is h-team :) http://humanstxt.org/H-team.html
# sandeepshetty microformats envy?
# sandeepshetty It's also interesting how (*h-friends*) http://humanstxt.org/H-friends.html with its (human friends & geek friends) is richer than http://humanstxt.org/humans.txt (which only has a thanks sections)
# sandeepshetty not to mention the inconsistencies between the two lists.
# sandeepshetty so what's the context to this: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-06-03#t1370293846
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# 
@tabatkins @unconed Devoting most of your words to shaming people who use your CoC doesn't seem productive. Why not just http://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct-why ?
# @tabatkins @unconed Bah, wrong link: http://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct (but I guess the link I gave you is a nice read, too).
# tantek sandeepshetty - we were discussing http://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct and http://indiewebcamp.com/code-of-conduct-why
# sandeepshetty Not sure if that was the answer to the context for: "<JonathanNeal> Thanks tantek. I hear you have banned stakes to burn me at."
# sandeepshetty so wishes he could make it to IWC
# marjolein is away: in my hammock ZZZZZzzzzz..... tzaf!
# sandeepshetty yep was going to sign up...
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# sandeepshetty tantek: for some reason that table (*remote participation) doesn't understand the gravatar link
# sandeepshetty maybe because it doesn't end with a .jpg?
# sandeepshetty yeah checking the "creators" section... should have done that before asking actually :)
# sandeepshetty is off to get some shut-eye... hopes to send a webmention tomorrow...
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# JonathanNeal tantek: disempowered creators dot text
# JonathanNeal So I'm still not cool enough https://indieauth.com/auth?me=jonathantneal.com
# JonathanNeal Because I am not cool enough for protocols.
# tantek e.g. on http://www.jonathantneal.com/ he has: <a href="//twitter.com/jon_neal" rel="me">
# JonathanNeal For shame, http://twitter.com/t
# JonathanNeal Or rather, http://viewsource.in/tantek.com#L183
# JonathanNeal I am joking with the "for shame" expression, but using it to point out that http:// seems pretty valid, even by your standards.
# JonathanNeal So, the protocol-less version seems equally legit, but if you want me to change it, I will.
# JonathanNeal I will conform to our indie standards.
# JonathanNeal ;)
# JonathanNeal You and I tinker by nature. If I ran the #viewsource or #humanstxt channel, you would be giving me hell, for sure.