#indiewebcamp 2013-04-26

2013-04-26 UTC
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Loqi test
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Loqi test
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Loqi [mention] http://tantek.com/2013/113/b1/first-federated-indieweb-comment-thread linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/Storytlr (pingback)
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@Silona @fool I know exactly the one! Austin Slow burn's Salsa Con Habanero! I booked my tickets June 17-24 for @osbridge and @indiewebcamp WOOT!
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k (+742) "/* Features */ open source components" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k (+11) "/* Open Source */" (view diff)
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aaronpk another POSSE'd reply with proper links of the original and twitter version! http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/04/25/1/indieweb-qs https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/327604371414204417
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@aaronpk @BarnabyWalters That sounds awesome, can't wait to see what you do with it! #indieweb #qs (http://t.co/epRJI3M66M)
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aaronpk this time happened automatically from p3k!
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aaronpk argh vine
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silona.org edited /2013/Guest_List (+323) "/* Apprentices */ adding myself" (view diff)
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silona.org edited /2013/Guest_List (+72) "/* Apprentices */" (view diff)
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silona.org edited /2013/Guest_List (+11) "/* Apprentices */" (view diff)
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silona.org edited /2013/Guest_List (+1) "/* Apprentices */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /original-post-discovery (+80) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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aaronpk !tell tantek I wired up original-post-discovery! http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/04/25/1/original-post-discovery
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
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aaronparecki.com edited /p3k (+290) "/* IndieWeb Support */" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /blogroll-fr (+472) "[fr: translated from original]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /hashtags-fr (+8) "/* Marquage */ added h-entry" (view diff)
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@JadoreIrfania_ RT @t: The First Federated #Indieweb Comment Thread: http://tantek.com/2013/113/b1/first-federated-indieweb-comment-thread
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christopheducamp.com edited /original-post-discovery-fr (+75) "[fr: sync'd translation - added démo live]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /p3k-fr (+1216) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
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aaronpk barnabywalters: got your pingback from http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1360/ ! this is pretty cool
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barnabywalters aaronpk: great! I need to make my microformats entity expansion more robust, then I’m onto displaying comments
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aaronpk I noticed when your site pulls in the h-entry, my links don't have the "http" prefix. of course this is because I hide the "http" from my displayed text.
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aaronpk can you think of a way to both have the "http" hidden on my site, but have it show up in the "name" property in the microformats representations?
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cweiske aaronpk, the video was only mp4
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cweiske firefox, chromium and opera don't display that
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aaronpk because when you pull it out you should get the "http" and choose whether to show it or not
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aaronpk cweiske: my chrome shows the mp4 file
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cweiske chrome != chromium
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aaronpk ah
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cweiske chromium is the open source variant of chrome
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barnabywalters aaronpk: just off to lunch, I’ll have a think about this and ping you later :)
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aaronpk barnabywalters: cool!
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aaronpk cweiske: the video is from Vine, so I don't know how I'd generate other formats
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cweiske which OS are you on?
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cweiske ah. ios
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aaronpk os x
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aaronpk but the server is fedora linux
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aaronpk ah, didn't even realize firefox doesn't show vine.co videos either
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cweiske ffmpeg can be used to convert the video to webm
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aaronpk I might give that a shot later
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aaronpk video is always a pita to deal with
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cweiske yes, you always need two types now
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aaronpk ok getting on the plane to San Francisco, bbiab!
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Loqi tantek: aaronpk left you a message 9 hours, 41 minutes ago: I wired up original-post-discovery! http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/04/25/1/original-post-discovery
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tommorris ooh cleverness
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tantek aaronpk - wow - tons of awesomness!
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tantek aaronpk - how (why?) did you post the vine link to the POSSE'd tweet while the original has a video emped directly on your site?
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tantek was that manual or does p3k automatically download from vine links and upload to your /files/ directory?
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tantek (and great that you have reply to indieweb with POSSE'd threading automatically working!)
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tantek (re: http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/04/25/1/indieweb-qs )
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tommorris tantek: may have a crack at implementing indieweb-comments over the weekend.
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barnabywalters huh, app.net’s TOS declare that you’re not allowed to scrape their site http://tosdr.org/#app-net
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barnabywalters I like the fact that they prohibit people from “Downloading (other than page caching) any part of the Service”
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tommorris they provide me an RSS feed. I shall use the RSS feed of my own content. ;)
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tantek tommorris - same here (weekend project)
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tantek barnabywalters - don't bother scraping them anyway, wait for them to implement microformats so you can *parse* them instead :)
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tantek tommorris - I feel like it's a bit of a race to see who successfully posts and indieweb comment on eschnou's post next
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barnabywalters tantek: surely that TOS precludes microformats support — hopefully they will add µf and ditch the no-scraping rule
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tantek *an indieweb comment
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tantek barnabywalters - didn't bother to read their TOS so don't know.
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tantek but parsing != scraping
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tantek so if they say scraping, ignore it
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tommorris so, the "no scraping" rule presumably doesn't apply to the RSS feeds
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tommorris or the data coming out of the API (if you were using the API)
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tommorris "(iii) using any data mining, robots or similar data gathering or extraction methods"
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tommorris that's extremely vague
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barnabywalters me neither, I just saw it on tosdr
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karlcow 1st prototype for a python script to process the request. Not finished yet. https://gist.github.com/karlcow/5468297
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karlcow webmention HTTP POST request
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tantek Karlcow, cool!
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tantek tommorris: Yeah we're not doing any of those. No mining, no robot spidering either.
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tommorris hadn't seen karlcow in here.
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tommorris more semweb denizens sneaking into pragmatic-but-liberatory web publishing. ;)
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tantek barnabywalters: Did we figure out how to do a webmention response purely with http rather than have the response be in HTML/JSON etc?
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tantek tommorris: Especially richly semantic publishing (in display *and* markup) with plenty of follow-your-nose goodness.
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tommorris tantek: I was showing off my mobile posting interface in a bar to London's liveliest collection of homophilic geeks. people were pretty impressed that you could do quite a lot of the things they rely on social networks for without social networking services.
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barnabywalters tantek: last I remember was X- HTTP headers in the response
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tantek barnabywalters: Add it to a brainstorming section on our webmention page?
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tantek tommorris: Awesome! Demos in bars are definitely a big step up :)
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aaronpk tantek: that was manual, I used the vine.co URL on twitter because I know they show the video inline
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barnabywalters tantek: will do
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aaronpk karlcow++ for webmention python implmentation
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Loqi karlcow has 1 karma
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aaronpk tantek: (and anyone else in SF) I am heading up to the city on BART right now!
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tommorris a reference implementation should make hacking tomorrow easier.
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tommorris especially as I've been Python-ing for most of the week already. ;)
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tantek aaronpk: Unfortunately I'm heading to San jose for a WebApps mtg
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aaronpk ah right
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /webmention (+771) "/* Issues */ Added response body uncertainty issue, potential solution in brainstorming" (view diff)
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tommorris wonders whether he should announce "Yahoo! 360 integration" for Ferocity at this weekend's Yahoo hack day.
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barnabywalters tommorris++
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Loqi tommorris has 6 karma
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tantek tommorris: Why not posterous? ;) it would be the shortest lived POSSE implementation ever.
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tantek Speaking of dying/dead things, what's the best (or even a good) indieweb approach to cloning and locally hosting pages you linked to but are going offline?
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tantek Eg I have a ton of links to upcoming.org pages and I'd really like to switch them to locally hosted copies - any suggestions? wget? Firefox save page?
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barnabywalters tantek: go with wget
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tantek Has anyone done anything like this and what has worked or not worked?
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barnabywalters I did a load of backups of sites I consider significant/useful and wget was super easy
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tantek barnabywalters: Last time I tried the wget path I got stuck on having to build it for macosx
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barnabywalters in fact, I managed to find some really amazing content I hadn’t ever seen before on one site
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barnabywalters tantek: I think I installed it via homebrew
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barnabywalters yep, I did — I don’t recall having any problems
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barnabywalters although homebrew can be a bit of a pain if you install lots of stuff from source
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tantek Huh, maybe that's worth documenting as a how to somewhere
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tantek Maybe start a stub wget page on the wiki with that recommendation?
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tantek (I would but I'm on my iPod)
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barnabywalters tantek: starting
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waterpigs.co.uk created /wget (+469) "Created with OS X installation notes" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /wget (+312) "Added how-to archive a site instructions" (view diff)
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waterpigs.co.uk edited /wget (+289) "/* Archive a Site */" (view diff)
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@jdavid The First Federated #Indieweb Comment Thread - /via @t - Tantek http://add.vc/p1o #social #fb #identity
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tommorris will do more after dinner. ;)
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aaronpk nice!
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tommorris programming is slow without documentation.
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aaronpk true
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tommorris I ran out of 3G data a few days ago. my monthly billing cycle starts afresh at midnight.
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tommorris so, ladies and gents, one of the things I'm throwing into my webmentions/pingback implementation is Hashcash support
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aaronpk ooo?
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tommorris so, X-Hashcash is used in email. May as well use it as an HTTP header too
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tommorris if you send me a Hashcash header, I'll store in the database whether it validates and to what strength
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tommorris the 'strength' of the Hashcash signifies the amount of CPU work that goes into producing it.
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aaronpk interesting... so it doesn't end up modifying the pingback/webmention protocol at all?
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tommorris nope, it's just an extra HTTP header
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tommorris if you send it, the receiver can use it to see it as less likely to be spam
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aaronpk that's kind of neat
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tommorris a 20-bit hashcash takes 0.282 seconds on my MacBook Air to compute
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tommorris a 22-bit hashcash takes 1.81 seconds
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tommorris 23-bit takes 3.4 seconds
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tommorris 24-bit takes 8 seconds
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karlcow another version by @davidbgk using gunicorn for server https://gist.github.com/davidbgk/5469846
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tommorris the longest someone has computed is 48 bit, which took 14 days with a GPU
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tommorris so, from 0-48 bits: the more bits, the more CPU time they've expended spamming you. ;)
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tommorris and there is a wordpress implementation too: http://wordpress-plugins.feifei.us/hashcash/
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tommorris I'm surprised nobody has implemented hashcash in javascript yet. ;)
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tommorris oh wait - https://github.com/007/hashcash-js
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tommorris wonders if hashcash-in-javascript might be the solution to wikispam. ;)
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aaronpk worth a shot!
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@rossolson @laerm Sorry for the typo: #indieweb is what I meant.
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tommorris is making a right mess of things.
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aaronpk as it should be
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aaronpk it's ok, /me is too
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tommorris I've spammed eschnou with two posts already
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tommorris third time lucky.
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aaronpk aw
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tommorris and there we go - http://eschnou.com/entry/testing-indieweb-federation-with-waterpigscouk-aaronpareckicom-and--62-24908.html
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tommorris I need to remove the timestamp, but I've responded!
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aaronpk nice!
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aaronpk hmm timezones
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aaronpk ponders timezones for a while
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tommorris oh, and I've been spamming app.net with my comments. ;)
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aaronpk hahaha
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Loqi rofl
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tommorris need a no-appdotnet checkbox
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tommorris so, now we have comment threads and the indieweb reply toolbelt thing - we're getting there. ;)
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aaronpk definitely!
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tommorris so, I implemented webmention. I just need to implement pingback.
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tommorris it's awesome - the webmention/pingback thing is done on the message queue
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tommorris so when I save a post, it scans the HTML of the post and queues each link up in the MQ
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aaronpk oh nice!
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aaronpk you don't need to implement pingback if you want to use the pingback.me -> webmention proxy
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tommorris pingback is easy enough to implement
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tommorris have done xmlrpc in the past
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@ak2webd3 I've track'n loved IndieWeb Meetup http://awe.sm/s0jHP
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aaronpk there is now exactly one post on IndieNews! http://news.indiewebcamp.com/
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aaronpk i'm going to submit a few more
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aaronpk there we go
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aaronpk now go!