#indiewebcamp 2013-04-25

2013-04-25 UTC
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tantek.com edited /discovery (+738) "add a few more discovery algorithms, link to original-post-discovery" (view diff)
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namespace Okay, what's this all about?
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namespace Nevermind, found the website.
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namespace So how can I help?
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@tabatkins RT @sideshowbarker: “No separate "api.***" URL. No API key. No TOS.” @t clued me in today on The First Federated #Indieweb Comment Thread h…
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aaronpk namespace: you can help by having your own web site and using it to talk with the rest of us!
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karlcow read http://tantek.com/2013/113/b1/first-federated-indieweb-comment-thread
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karlcow and seen this http://eschnou.com/entry/testing-indieweb-federation-with-waterpigscouk-aaronpareckicom-and--62-24908.html
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karlcow is that thread aggregated only on laurent sites? or redistributed on all sites participating to the discussion?
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aaronpk currentl eschnou is the only one who shows the whole thread I believe
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aaronpk my site only shows one post above: http://aaronparecki.com/replies/2013/04/19/2/indieweb
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aaronpk but that's entirely up to the site author. if I wanted to, I could crawl back and pull in the content of the whole thread on to my site
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karlcow aaronpk: ah ok. So it is possible, but not mandatory, to get the full thread. Thanks.
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aaronpk yep!
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karlcow I had a second question too. What would it take to make it work on a very asynchronous system where the site which is online is not dynamic. Would it be possible?
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karlcow hmm I guess the pingback should trigger a notifications to the owner so that he can regenerate the content adding or not the content of the ping. TOTHINK.
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karlcow s/trigger a/trigger/
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Loqi karlcow meant to say: hmm I guess the pingback should trigger notifications to the owner so that he can regenerate the content adding or not the content of the ping. TOTHINK.
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karlcow Damn, I had a third question… can't remember
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karlcow ah yes.
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karlcow Would it be possible to have another layer based on pull (whitelist) more than push (pingback → open to spam).
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aaronpk pingback / webmention are just a notification mechanism
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aaronpk all it does is say "hey this page linked to you here"
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aaronpk what the receiving site does with that information is up to the receiving site
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karlcow hmmm yes I guess I could block notifications of site I don't know.
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aaronpk so you can parse the sending page automatically, queue it up, send a message to yourself, whatever
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karlcow notification unknown > /dev/null
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aaronpk the current thinking is that it would be relatively simple to create a whitelist of domains based on the sites you link out to in all posts on your own site, and those incoming notificaitons could be automatically displayed
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karlcow can the domain name notifications be faked?
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karlcow hmm wrong English
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aaronpk sure, I can send a webmention for any site to any site. but you can verify that page A actually does link to page B
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karlcow hmmm :/
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aaronpk that's the "no_link_found" error here http://webmention.org/
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aaronpk think about it this way, let's do this in english without protocol speak
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karlcow You can speak protocol ;) I have no issue with it.
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aaronpk bear with me
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karlcow is discovering http://webmention.org/
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aaronpk "hey karlcow, check out this page: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1339/ -- it links to your site http://www.la-grange.net/karl/"
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aaronpk what is your response?
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karlcow Let's say the server online receives that notifications.
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karlcow The server has to make an HTTP GET on http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1339/
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karlcow Then parse the document searching for the link (hmm scope issue, I guess constraint on the hAtom)
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karlcow if the link is not there, dump the notification to /dev/null
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karlcow if the link is there it could send a message to me with the content of the blog post, in the appropriate format for putting it in my offline generator.
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aaronpk exactly
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tantek whoa night time activity
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karlcow Thanks aaronpk
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karlcow It seems neat. I'll have to see if I can implement that.
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karlcow without too much hassles
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karlcow -s
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aaronpk karlcow: you'd just parse it with a microformats2 parser and look for an h-entry. here is an example of one of my notes parsed with a microformats2 parser http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/04/18/1/indiewebcamp.json
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karlcow notes the *just* ;)
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aaronpk well, there are at least two open source libraries now :) http://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2 and https://github.com/G5/microformats2
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karlcow php, ruby, wrong buckets. OK if I find a bit of time. I will see what I can do with python.
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aaronpk ahh darn! well you could always use the php one via a local web service :)
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karlcow hehe.
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aaronpk i've done worse
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karlcow I think I will try to do it myself just for the pleasure and maybe to really have a clear understanding.
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karlcow It will just take more time.
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aaronpk you would certainly gain a thorough understanding of microformats2 if you write a parser!
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karlcow ahah no no
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karlcow I don't want to write a generic mf2 parser
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karlcow Just want to parse the right information.
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karlcow is hAtom mandatory?
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tantek karlcow - that's ok, there are several to choose from
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karlcow Could someone through a link/rel could give the data model?
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aaronpk what do you mean?
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karlcow imagine in the blog post there is a link rel, which link to a file (format to define) describing the paths you have to parse to get the relevant information.
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tantek I did throw down the challenge to the python folks to write a parser at the HTML5DevConf at the beginning of the month
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tantek karlcow - so instead of implementing a simple parser, you propose a *new* mechanism that requires a more complex *new* parser.
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karlcow so basically it frees people to have to modify their templates for complying to hAtom
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aaronpk karlcow: that sounds more complicated
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tantek and more fragile
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tantek sidefile = more fragile
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tantek antipattern
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karlcow tantek: no, no, I don't want to have to modify my content template ;)
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tantek karlcow easier than maintaining a sidefile
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tantek which will break when you update your content template for a random reason and forget about the sidefile
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aaronpk personal anecdote: I did not have any microformats2 markup on my site up until saturday. it took me about an hour to add the appropriate classes to make it into a microformats2-parsable page
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karlcow not exactly
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karlcow my site is entirely static
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karlcow The templates have been evolving through time.
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tantek my site's storage is entirely static and has been evolving through time
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tantek but now my post permalinks are dynamically generated from that static storage
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aaronpk tantek: i'm actually curious how you've transitioned your content from mf1 to mf2 over time
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tantek so I can update them as needed, without having to touch old storage
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karlcow static storage? as html files?
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karlcow or another form?
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tantek XML-valid HTML5
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karlcow Though my case is so specific that I don't think I should bother others with it. I will see what I can do.
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tantek though even that has evolved
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tantek previously XHTML1
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karlcow yeah
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tantek but always with semantic class names
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tantek evolving to hAtom, then h-entry
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karlcow I have html4, then xhtml1, xhtml1.1 (application/xhtml+xml), then html5
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tantek cool
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tantek part of my transition from pure static files to static storage file + dynamic permalink pages was a desire for better URLs for my permalinks
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karlcow but with maybe 10 or 15 generations of content structure. I keep them as-is. So the design of old pages do NOT change. They are part of the history/memory.
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tantek karlcow - at the end of 2009 I was kind of where you are now with pure static files
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tantek karlcow - same here! the design of my old archives do not change.
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tantek they are also part of history/memory
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karlcow :)
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aaronpk i still have my old site online, but it's not in a timeline format
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aaronpk i'm debating what to do with it
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tantek karlcow - even now I'm keeping stylesheet snapshots per year, so I can evolve my styling and keep styling for older posts
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aaronpk interestingly, I wish I had the version before that online still cause it had a virtual tour of my room before that was a thing
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tantek I did a lot of blog restyling experimentation in the past - like once per month for a while, but eventually it didn't change more than once a year so I'm sticking with that for historical snapshots.
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tantek surprisingly positive HN thread
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tantek thanks aaronpk barnabywalters for answering folks there
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aaronpk ooh tantek! I just tested your post in my new reply interface and it found the tweet id automatically!
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tantek whoa what?!?
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tantek oh my indieweb comments post?
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tantek sweet! via rel=syndication?
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aaronpk yep! screenshot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aaronpk/8680139838/in/set-72157633331529755/
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tantek WOW! Awesome! so rel-syndication discovery works!
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/discovery#POSSE_copies
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tantek :)
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aaronpk it certainly does! I have yet to actually post something with this since it's not live on my site yet, just on my dev copy, but all the info was gathered properly!
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karlcow http://www.la-grange.net/2009/12/04/histoire-sans-frontieres
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karlcow suite des designs
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karlcow evolution of designs
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karlcow it has already changed since that post
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karlcow ok. I guess I should hit my bed. Thanks aaronpk and tantek for the guidance.
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tantek thanks for coming by karlcow - hope to see you again!
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aaronpk that hackernews post got a bunch of people in here today!
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tantek aaronpk - oh really? who else?
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tantek that must mean they read my blog post to the very end - since I don't link to IRC until then
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aaronpk ok i guess it was like 3-4
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aaronpk but still that's way more new people in one day than normal!
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tantek indeed
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tantek actually that's a good number, just about enough that we can communicate the culture of the channel
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tantek without being overwhelmed
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tantek how many of them already had their own sites?
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tantek ?
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tantek aaronpk - another comment on displaying context for a reply/comment post
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tantek we should un t.co links
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tantek when the context is a tweet
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tantek and in general shorturls
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aaronpk oh yea
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Loqi yea
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tantek bitly etc.
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aaronpk agreed
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tantek cool
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aaronpk trying to figure out where in my flow to do that
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tantek i'll add it to the wiki
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aaronpk the only problem i've encountered with doing that is deciding between a whitelist of domains to un-shorten (only follow one redirect) or to automayically follow redirects of all URLs to the end
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aaronpk a whitelist sounds annoying, but un-shortening all links has caused me some unsightly notes in the past
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tantek interesting
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tantek I wonder if you could ellipse the visible text of the link
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aaronpk ah yea I tried doing that in CSS and was having major issues. my CSS is apparently not that good
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aaronpk here's an example: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/02/25/3/
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aaronpk not the best, but it gets the point across
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aaronpk when I import my tweets from twitter to my site (PESOS) I un-shorten everything fully
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tantek.com edited /comment (+140) "/* Display a comment post */ Consider unwrapping shortened URLs in context displayed before a comment post" (view diff)
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/comment#Display_a_comment_post
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aaronpk great
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aaronparecki.com edited /comment (+19) "/* Indieweb examples of displaying comment posts */" (view diff)
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tantek cool
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aaronpk do we have a page on URL design yet?
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aaronpk aka permalink design
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tantek aaronpk - I feel like we've talked about it
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tantek it's certainly a building block!
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tantek permalink design in particular is a good place to start
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tantek.com edited /building-blocks (+36) "permalinks" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /permalinks (+1981) "stub with an indieweb example" (view diff)
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tantek aaronpk - there's a brain dump of mine
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tantek changing location - bbiab
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aaronpk tantek: awesome notes on permalinks! thanks!!
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tantek aaronpk - cool, glad they made some sense :)
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tantek.com edited /SWAT0 (+11) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /permalink (+24) "r" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /building-blocks-fr (+51) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /permalinks-fr (+2371) "[fr: translated from original]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /permalinks-fr (-36) "[fr: ''Cette page a démarré sur [[permalinks]]'' - traduction á raffiner]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /discovery-fr (+5477) "[fr: translated from original - first draft]" (view diff)
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@Ramoonus WordPress and IndieWeb-Comments http://notizblog.org/2013/04/24/wordpress-and-indieweb-comments/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+notizblog+%28notizBlog%29 #Wordpress via @pfefferle
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christopheducamp.com created /original-post-discovery-fr (+2848) "[fr: translated from original - first draft]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /in-reply-to-fr (+142) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /short-domain-fr () "(-4636) #redirect [[short-domains-fr]]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /short-domains-fr (+4676) "[fr: content imported from short-domain-fr and sync'd with short-domains]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /comment-presentation-fr () "(-11315) #redirect [[comments-presentation-fr]]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /comments-presentation-fr (+11566) "[fr: content imported from comment-presentation-fr and sync'd with comments-presentation]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /comments-presentation-fr (-62) "[fr: removed <ref></ref>]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /multiple-reply-fr (+3325) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /comment-fr (+3204) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /permalink-fr (+27) "[fr: redirect permalinks-fr]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /hashtags-fr (+1924) "[fr: translated from original]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /hashtag-fr (+25) "#redirect [[hashtags-fr]]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /note-fr (+6717) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /post-fr (+500) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /posts-fr (+17) "(fr: uplinking [[comments-fr|Commentaires]])" (view diff)
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@BarnabyWalters @eschnou any chance you could add class=h-card to your great #indieweb at-name autolinking so microformat entity… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1352/
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christopheducamp.com edited /pingback-fr (+1341) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /p3k-fr (+3710) "[fr: translated from original]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /Storytrl-fr (+2423) "[fr: translated from original]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /taproot-fr (+3521) "[fr: translated from original - technical mentions non translated...]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /OpenID-fr (+788) "[fr: translated from original]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /RelMeAuth-fr (+61) "[fr: translated from original]" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /permalinks (-460) "/* Falcon */ collapse two URL examples into one with variants" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /permalinks (+19) "grammar" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /permalinks (+43) "link notes articles etc." (view diff)
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@thomasgwillis this #indieweb idea is interesting. where is the go to place for learning more? yes, this is a bit ironic asking on twitter.
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christopheducamp.com edited /projects-fr (+23266) "[fr: sync'd translation]" (view diff)
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@BarnabyWalters @thomasgwillis http://indiewebcamp.com/Main_Page is where all the info is, all the conversation happens in #indiewebcamp on… http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1354/
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christopheducamp.com created /sign-in-use-cases-fr (+3486) "[fr: translated from original]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /IndieAuth-fr (+26) "#redirect [[indieauth-fr]]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /hcard-fr (+44) "[fr : voir : http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-fr]" (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com created /silos-fr (+21) "#redirect [[silo-fr]]" (view diff)
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Loqi barnabywalters: tantek left you a message on 4/24 at 4:51pm: Ok I wrote up how to go from a POSSE copy to finding the original - please review: http://indiewebcamp.com/original-post-discovery
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barnabywalters tantek: Looks good to me
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tantek Great
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tantek xtof - thanks for cranking on the fr translations!
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xtof thanks. still a lot of work tantek… hope I'll find local help in Paris !
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@MyDataLabs Le Premier Fil de Discussion Fédéré de Commentaires #Indieweb http://christopheducamp.com/blog/le-premier-fil-de-discussion-federe-de-commentaires-indieweb/
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@xtof_fr 2013-04-19 : Le jour où l’#indieweb a fédéré avec succès un post de #commentaires
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@eschnou RT @xtof_fr: 2013-04-19 : Le jour où l’#indieweb a fédéré avec succès un post de #commentaires
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@d_nghia RT @xtof_fr: 2013-04-19 : Le jour où l’#indieweb a fédéré avec succès un post de #commentaires
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christopheducamp.com edited /in-reply-to-fr (+2) "[fr: typo]" (view diff)
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adlq hi all! I'm quite new to this, but it's very promising and exciting!
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eschnou thanks adlq and welcome !
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barnabywalters xtof: thanks for doing all those translations! and I saw a pingback from your translation of tantek’s post :)
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tantek :)
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barnabywalters interestingly it looks like wordpress tried sending it a few more times after it registered — perhaps I am not sending the success response right
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eschnou barnabywalters, I did the changes,let me know if it work for you, and if you have other suggestions please file them as issue on the storytlr github issue tracker, easier for me to track them there.
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barnabywalters eschnou: ah great, I’ll try writing a reply and see if the entities get expanded
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eschnou hmmm
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eschnou why did it fail now suddenly, I made a few other changes but was not expecting to break things...
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barnabywalters eschnou: something went wrong on my end, just checking my logs…
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eschnou I did not get a pingback either..
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barnabywalters any tips for nicer ways of looking through logs than echoing them out in a SSH terminal?
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eschnou barnabywalters, well, logs are logs, can't make them much pretty :)
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eschnou I log into a file and browse/search with less or grep.
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barnabywalters huh, twitter thought my request to POSSE the note there was unauthenticated, and I didn’t catch the exception
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xtof barnaby eschnou FYI my wp instance + plugins seem wonky. still testing on my side.
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eschnou barnabywalters, one day we'll not even POSSE anymore and just chat over the #indieweb :-)
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barnabywalters xtof: well it seems to be working okay! I saw your reply to eschnou’s post pop up
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eschnou I have to run, if you think there are issues on my side, please tell Loqi or file an issue on storytlr ! Thanks all and good night !
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Loqi see you in the morning!
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barnabywalters eschnou: okay, good night :)
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eschnou thank you Loqi :-)
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xtof eschnou : thanks for all
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eschnou cheers!
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xtof barnaby : will have to find out with eschnou and matthias why my post does not include blockquote / just the title
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barnabywalters xtof: I’ll run the source of your post through php-mf2 and see what comes out
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barnabywalters xtof: adding p-summary to the element with e-content on should do the trick
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xtof barnaby thanks for the information. will work on that tomorrow :) now leaving. have a good night
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barnabywalters xtof: you too
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barnabywalters yay! it worked
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barnabywalters good night all
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Loqi giggles
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Loqi night night
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tantek xtof thanks for the blog post translation!
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xtof tantek it's a pleasure.
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aaronpk I should try to translate these all to German! Would be good practice!
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Loqi I agree
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tantek I have a question though about the Ailleurs
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tantek those all link to the elsewhere of my original
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tantek do you think it makes sense to also have a separate Ailleurs for the elsewheres of your translation?
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tantek e.g. your tweet
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tantek and your G+
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xtof tantek a good question. Opened to any suggestion :)
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tantek how do you say "This Translation Elsewhere"
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tantek ?
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tantek perhaps that would be another section,?
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tantek where you could link to https://twitter.com/xtof_fr/status/327494592175947777
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@xtof_fr 2013-04-19 : Le jour où l’#indieweb a fédéré avec succès un post de #commentaires
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tantek and https://plus.google.com/u/0/116873380212462409886/posts/KoghLjmEqzS
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xtof tantek Yes "cette traduction ailleurs" seems to be fine in another section
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tantek great!
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tantek and perhaps add your translation as an example to http://indiewebcamp.com/posts-elsewhere#Manual
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tantek.com edited /posts (+138) "/* Footer sections */ Elsewhere of this translation" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /posts-elsewhere (+234) "Elsewhere of this Translation" (view diff)
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tantek ok new section just for you xtof: http://indiewebcamp.com/posts-elsewhere#Elsewhere_of_this_Translation :)
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xtof :)
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tantek xtof - I love that your translation of my blog post links to the French translations of the IndieWebCamp.com pages that I linked to
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tantek beautifully complete/consistent :)
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christopheducamp.com edited /posts-elsewhere (+232) "/* Elsewhere of this Translation */ '''Cette Traduction Ailleurs''' + ex." (view diff)
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christopheducamp.com edited /posts-elsewhere (-6) "/* Elsewhere of this Translation */ removed bold" (view diff)
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tantek xtof - looking great!
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tantek shouldn't http://christopheducamp.com/blog/le-premier-fil-de-discussion-federe-de-commentaires-indieweb/#cette-traduction-ailleurs also link to https://plus.google.com/u/0/116873380212462409886/posts/KoghLjmEqzS
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xtof yep :)
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tantek :)
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xtof tantek the next step… not tonite. find nice US, belgium, germany, etc flags !
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tantek xtof - a-ha! I have some
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tantek you can use mine
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xtof thanks. but off tonite. will integrate that tomorrow
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xtof tantek have a good night ant thanks for all the inspiration
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Loqi night night
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tantek have a good night xtof - well done
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@pkbot mentioned in Don&amp;#39;t attempt to parse an empty document to avoid errors. by ... https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/pull/12 [Google Alerts]
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tantek heh