#indiewebcamp 2013-04-18

2013-04-18 UTC
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@biancawelds Fiddling with self-hosted OpenPhoto but it seems to be too buggy. #indieweb
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tantek another example use of whitespace (linebreaks in particular) https://twitter.com/t/status/324693403071819777
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@t Friendster Farce http://t.co/bAOXs46tls
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tantek cool - Loqi preserves whitespace/linebreaks too :)
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Loqi who, me?
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tantek except overencodes the > chart
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tantek char
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tantek aaronpk ping - see above ^^^ Loqi said PHP->Java when it should have said PHP->Java
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tantek Loqi, bug report
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aaronpk i should make a !bug command :)
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tantek heh
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aaronpk|m tantek: suggestions for a venue for the meetup next weekend? Was thinking something near golden gate park/haight
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aaronpk|m A friend I'm staying with has a house a short walk from there and offered to host dinner or an after party !
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tantek oh hey aaronpk
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tantek I was thinking somewhere public
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aaronpk|m Yea for dinner.
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aaronpk|m If its close to the house can have a subset go there after!
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tantek sadly I have to be in San Jose earlier that day for the WebApps WG f2f meeting
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aaronpk|m Earlier? Will you be able to make it to dinner?
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tantek but fortunately it ends early
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tantek like 13:30
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tantek so hopefully I can make it back to SF by 15:00
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aaronpk|m Ah great
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aaronpk|m Well dinner at 6 and we can go back to the house on the hill afterwards, she has a hot tub!
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tantek whoa
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tantek we could do Crepes on Cole
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tantek that's easy to access via transit
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aaronpk|m Oh yea that's a good place! They do dinner?
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tantek yes they do!
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tantek cafe style so people can come/go order as they wish
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tantek they serve til 23:00 or so
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aaronpk|m Awesome
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tantek so let's do that
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tantek assuming it's close enough to your friend's place
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tantek aaronpk - what's the capitalization of p3k? is it p3k or P3K or P3k ?
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tantek it's an acronym right?
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tantek what does p3k stand for again?
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aaronpk|m p3k is what I was thinking
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aaronpk|m It's a half acronym
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aaronpk|m personal publishing platform
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tantek ah ok
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tantek I'm trying to figure out what comment posts should look like and if there's anyway to automatically detect that a post being written is a comment instead of a standalone post
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tantek clearly if it starts with an @-name, that's a reply
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tantek but what about "replies" to indieweb posts
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tantek certainly most comments on blog posts don't bother to indicate any context of being a reply/comment, because the presentation/UI for writing those comments already provides such context
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tommorris tantek: in-reply-to?
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tommorris tantek: the problem is what you do with such a distinction. if you look at twitter, the desirability of your responses being broadcast out to people who aren't interested is something the developers have gone back and forth on
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tommorris and the community innovated the dot-reply thing as a way around that
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tommorris where I might type "@t whatever" if I want it to go *just* to you, while ".@t whatever" is done to override the behaviour that the reply semantics enforces and gets twitter to treat the reply as an ordinary post
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tommorris then I believe for a while, Twitter made it so replies would only be shown in your stream if the replier was someone you follow, and the person they are replying to is also someone you follow
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tantek they still do that
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tantek and in fact, they made a change to profile pages as well - to hide replies by default
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tommorris which is a shame as some replies are pretty interesting. ;)
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tantek tommorris, "in-reply-to: URL" is the best I've come up with (per my existing posting practices)
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tantek oh, on the Twitter profiles, there's still a button to view all posts including replies
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tantek but , "in-reply-to: URL" as a content requirement still feels a bit awkward
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tantek when say, writing an indieweb comment in reply to some other indieweb post
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tommorris my current inclination is rel=in-reply-to on the first link
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tommorris but I'm too tired to think clearly at the moment. ;)
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aaronpk tantek: thanks for the loqi ping
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Loqi you're welcome
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tantek lol
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tantek fascinating read about solving problems rather than offering technologies (totally applies to how our IndieWeb community approaches/conversations are different than open-source-project-centric discussions) http://speckyboy.com/2013/04/18/never-say-wordpress-when-selling-a-web-design-project/
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aaronpk agreed!
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tantek hah - it looks like Facebook's experiment with the double-sided vertical timeline is over. new profiles are back to a single vertical stream of posts / activities.
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tantek though the old two column back/forth timeline is still up on its about page for now: https://www.facebook.com/about/timeline
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tantek https://fbstatic-a.akamaihd.net/rsrc.php/v1/yr/r/OFK9SlSUhOh.jpg
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tantek that thing was so unusable. looked like a designer did it just to be all - designery (artistic? pretty?) instead of actually useful.
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aaronpk heh. i think that's actually what happened
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tantek original post on the two column timeline: https://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=10150289612087131
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tantek and the post about that post (incase these disappear over time as history gets rewritten) http://www.insidefacebook.com/2011/09/22/facebook-launches-new-profile-feature-timeline-for-showing-all-your-important-content-on-one-page/
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aaronpk "the design of the Timeline interface was much more challenging. Nick Felton (he of the “Feltron” annual reports, who joined Facebook earlier this year) and Joey Flynn, a Facebook product designer, tell Co.Design about the decisions they made." http://www.fastcodesign.com/1665414/designers-behind-facebook-timeline-5-keys-to-creating-a-ui-with-soul
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@biancawelds So I went ahead and replaced Google Reader with a self-hosted Tiny Tiny RSS installation. So far, so good. #indieweb
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tantek well I guess kudos to them for experimenting, but did it really need 1.5 years of testing to figure out that people hated it?
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aaronpk lol
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tantek I've been scrutinizing existing "comment" and "reply" UIs looking for patterns and anti-patterns.
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aaronpk great!
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tantek Fascinating what kind of details you notice when you look at how different sites (and their apps) implementing comment/reply UIs (everything from discoverability, button/link, text field, submitting)
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tantek there are some huge inconsistencies out there
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tantek the new FB profile/about page is interesting
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aaronpk it's going back a bit to the old facebook where you could list specific movies/music/books/etc fields
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@enn_tee RT @biancawelds: So I went ahead and replaced Google Reader with a self-hosted Tiny Tiny RSS installation. So far, so good. #indieweb
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tantek fascinating which sites put the comment input box *before* other comments, and which put it *after* other comments.
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tantek and then there's the even more fascinating variant where the comment box is fixed positioned at the bottom of the screen when view a "post permalink" page. e.g. 4SQ v4 iOS app.
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tantek and IG's post comments screen too (which unfortunately doesn't show you the photo itself - making it hard/inconvenient to look again at the image to recall why you were inspired to comment)
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tantek which sites show comment boxes in list of posts views (and on which posts), and which only show comment boxes on post permalink pages/screens.
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tantek one thing I've noticed is that users seem to "engage" more in the liking/commenting on both FB/IG than on say Twitter (or blogs)
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tantek FB especially - and I wonder if it has to do with showing a comment field/box underneath posts, even in lists of posts views (like a profile page or your newsfeed page, or on a group page where multiple posts are shown).
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tantek normally I'd expect lots of little text input boxes like that to be distracting, but somehow it doesn't seem to be a problem on FB lists of posts views - they're doing something right (something that is non-obvious)
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aaronpk agreed, I find that actually quite reasonable in the Facebook UI
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tantek considering what it would it look like and how it would work if I put little comment boxes underneath each of my posts on my home page for example.
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aaronpk well where would those comments go?
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tantek hah - that's a backend problem, I'm figuring out the initial UX first :)
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tantek as in, can I discern what exactly about the FB design is making it usable and reproduce such usability on my own site (on lists of posts pages as well as post permalink pages)
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aaronpk well I meant more like are you willing to host peopel's comments?
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aaronpk I used to have really small inline comment boxes on my site and it was kind of cool that people could post things on my site
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tantek aaronpk - I think part of the problem with past efforts at doing decentralized comments is that folks (mostly programmers) jumped immediately to first solving the "where do the comments go / get stored" problem instead of figuring out how to make decentralized commenting UX be beautiful and fun.